AP Seeks Release of Bush Military Records
July 16, 2004 11:39 AM Subscribe
AP Seeks Release of Bush Military Records Records destroyed? Ah, the other set! ..."Records released so far do not put to rest questions over whether Bush fulfilled his National Guard service for a period during the Vietnam War, the AP argued in papers filed in federal court in New York.
Those records came from federal records clearinghouses. Texas law requires separate record keeping for state National Guard service, and those records should exist on microfilm in Austin, the AP said. ..."
Five bucks says the Texas records, too, will have been "inadvertently" destroyed.
posted by kgasmart at 12:02 PM on July 16, 2004
posted by kgasmart at 12:02 PM on July 16, 2004
Although I'm personally pretty sure that whatever's in those records would prove embarrassing to the preznent, I think this Guard story is is like the "UN food/oil scandal" (or whatever it is) that constantly gets the Pampers of people like Glenn Reynolds and the captain of the USS Useless in a twist on an almost daily basis, yet seems curiously absent from the media: the truth in these stories is not lurid or criminal enough to capture our attention in this age of increased desensitization to scandal. Junior didn't show up for his part-time job for four or five months thirty years ago, big eff-ing deal, right? Unless someone can prove that he was doing time for cocaine possession, I can almost guarantee this one isn't going anywhere...
posted by JollyWanker at 12:03 PM on July 16, 2004
posted by JollyWanker at 12:03 PM on July 16, 2004
If anyone wants to give me an address, I can try to pick them up on the way home from work.
But as a resident of Austin, should tell you - we're a disorganized bunch. Even if the records exist, we won't be able to find them. We'll try, honest. We're friendly. But then we'll get sleepy and take a nap or go out for beer.
It is the way.
Of course, if you're up for some frisby golf or smoking some pot...
posted by Peter H at 12:07 PM on July 16, 2004
But as a resident of Austin, should tell you - we're a disorganized bunch. Even if the records exist, we won't be able to find them. We'll try, honest. We're friendly. But then we'll get sleepy and take a nap or go out for beer.
It is the way.
Of course, if you're up for some frisby golf or smoking some pot...
posted by Peter H at 12:07 PM on July 16, 2004
Peter_H: If only the President were more like other Austinites...
posted by lodurr at 12:16 PM on July 16, 2004
posted by lodurr at 12:16 PM on July 16, 2004
the truth in these stories is not lurid or criminal enough to capture our attention in this age of increased desensitization to scandal
...unless the candidate in question is a Democrat.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:17 PM on July 16, 2004
...unless the candidate in question is a Democrat.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:17 PM on July 16, 2004
True, C_D. Maybe that's why the Republicans were so driven to flagellate Clinton for his fellatio - knowing it would be their turn next they wanted to make sure the next scandal du jour would have to top that for utter triviality and sheer outrageousness?
posted by JollyWanker at 12:21 PM on July 16, 2004
posted by JollyWanker at 12:21 PM on July 16, 2004
Junior didn't show up for his part-time job for four or five months thirty years ago, big eff-ing deal, right? Unless someone can prove that he was doing time for cocaine possession, I can almost guarantee this one isn't going anywhere...
While I agree with your sentiment, it is a big eff-ing deal. Not showing up to his "part time job" makes W a deserter during wartime. Not just a draft-dodger, but a coward who ran away from active service. And while I personally don't care that he wasn't flying sorties over Texas, the fact that a deserter is sitting in the White House, getting brave young men and women killed every day in the Middle East, while calling anyone who doesn't agree with him "unpatriotic" and "an enemy of freedom" makes me livid.
The bureaucratic shuffleboard won't interest many Americans, but the words deserter and AWOL would strike a powerful chord in the upcoming election if the AP can make them stick.
posted by junkbox at 12:31 PM on July 16, 2004
While I agree with your sentiment, it is a big eff-ing deal. Not showing up to his "part time job" makes W a deserter during wartime. Not just a draft-dodger, but a coward who ran away from active service. And while I personally don't care that he wasn't flying sorties over Texas, the fact that a deserter is sitting in the White House, getting brave young men and women killed every day in the Middle East, while calling anyone who doesn't agree with him "unpatriotic" and "an enemy of freedom" makes me livid.
The bureaucratic shuffleboard won't interest many Americans, but the words deserter and AWOL would strike a powerful chord in the upcoming election if the AP can make them stick.
posted by junkbox at 12:31 PM on July 16, 2004
It would be quite a coincidence if tsafan's link turns out to be correct. Perhaps they still might be on microfiche somewhere. If TX National Guard records just happen to be missing for that time period, we should get a truth seeker like Ken Starr to find the truth.
Of course, if you're up for some frisby golf or smoking some pot...
Have you been outside? It is too hot for frisbee golf. However, beer drinking has commenced.
posted by birdherder at 12:59 PM on July 16, 2004
Of course, if you're up for some frisby golf or smoking some pot...
Have you been outside? It is too hot for frisbee golf. However, beer drinking has commenced.
posted by birdherder at 12:59 PM on July 16, 2004
the fact that a deserter is sitting in the White House, getting brave young men and women killed every day in the Middle East, while calling anyone who doesn't agree with him "unpatriotic" and "an enemy of freedom" makes me livid.
not to mention swaggering around the deck of that aircraft carrier, mission accomplished, lying about actually flying the jet, bring 'em on, etc etc etc.
posted by quonsar at 12:59 PM on July 16, 2004
not to mention swaggering around the deck of that aircraft carrier, mission accomplished, lying about actually flying the jet, bring 'em on, etc etc etc.
posted by quonsar at 12:59 PM on July 16, 2004
Given that Bush was a two-term Governor of Texas, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Texas records will have been "inadvertently destroyed" as well. Or maybe those records will have found their way into Bush's records as a governor of Texas, which he tried to illegally stow into his dad's Presidential Library. Or maybe they were just dumped in the garbage. Dubya is such a barrel of fun when it comes to documentation.
posted by clevershark at 2:20 PM on July 16, 2004
posted by clevershark at 2:20 PM on July 16, 2004
Unless someone can prove that he was doing time for cocaine possession
Actually the theory all along has been that Bush and Bath refused to take their medicals in 1972 because it was in 1972 that military medical exams started including drug tests for marijuana and cocaine.
But of course that's only a theory.
posted by clevershark at 2:23 PM on July 16, 2004
Actually the theory all along has been that Bush and Bath refused to take their medicals in 1972 because it was in 1972 that military medical exams started including drug tests for marijuana and cocaine.
But of course that's only a theory.
posted by clevershark at 2:23 PM on July 16, 2004
You go, Clevershark. I was looking for the same stuff at the same time.
This gives weight to the concern over the new appointment of national archivist.
Can any Bush supporters think of a legit reason for prezn'nt W to hide his records?
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 3:06 PM on July 16, 2004
This gives weight to the concern over the new appointment of national archivist.
Can any Bush supporters think of a legit reason for prezn'nt W to hide his records?
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 3:06 PM on July 16, 2004
Even more interesting - to me - is why the AP should want them. Isn't the AP owned by the Reverend Sun Myong Moon?
posted by donfactor at 3:09 PM on July 16, 2004
posted by donfactor at 3:09 PM on July 16, 2004
Isn't the AP owned by the Reverend Sun Myong Moon?
Moon owns United Press International (UPI). More here.
posted by eddydamascene at 3:36 PM on July 16, 2004
Moon owns United Press International (UPI). More here.
posted by eddydamascene at 3:36 PM on July 16, 2004
Actually the theory all along has been that Bush and Bath refused to take their medicals in 1972 because it was in 1972 that military medical exams started including drug tests for marijuana and cocaine.
Several months ago, Josh Marshall ran some exceprts from the daily White House press gaggle (I just love saying that... gaggle, gaggle, gaggle...) in which my Favorite Journalist Living or Dead May She Reign Forever, Helen Thomas, repeatedly pressed McClellan - to no avail, need I even add - about "community service" in connection with this story... I have all along presumed that Bush (and Bath) were, in fact, arrested and given community service duties as a sentence that precluded them participating in required Guard service.
Oh, and all you "He's a Deserter! He's AWOL!" guys: you should just shut the hell up now, the choir's already heard you. Anyone's who's still supporting Bush at this point is doing so in complete and abject rejection of reality, so I seriously doubt whatever's in those files is going to affect the election in any significant way. I want him out as much as the next thinking American, but let's face it - we are living amongst some seriously, psychopathically deluded voters in this country right now. Bush could tell them "Up is down!" or "White is black!" or "Sadaam's a threat to the safety and security of Amurraca!" and they'll still believe him, despite all evidence to the contrary.
posted by JollyWanker at 4:09 PM on July 16, 2004
Several months ago, Josh Marshall ran some exceprts from the daily White House press gaggle (I just love saying that... gaggle, gaggle, gaggle...) in which my Favorite Journalist Living or Dead May She Reign Forever, Helen Thomas, repeatedly pressed McClellan - to no avail, need I even add - about "community service" in connection with this story... I have all along presumed that Bush (and Bath) were, in fact, arrested and given community service duties as a sentence that precluded them participating in required Guard service.
Oh, and all you "He's a Deserter! He's AWOL!" guys: you should just shut the hell up now, the choir's already heard you. Anyone's who's still supporting Bush at this point is doing so in complete and abject rejection of reality, so I seriously doubt whatever's in those files is going to affect the election in any significant way. I want him out as much as the next thinking American, but let's face it - we are living amongst some seriously, psychopathically deluded voters in this country right now. Bush could tell them "Up is down!" or "White is black!" or "Sadaam's a threat to the safety and security of Amurraca!" and they'll still believe him, despite all evidence to the contrary.
posted by JollyWanker at 4:09 PM on July 16, 2004
Five bucks says the Texas records, too, will have been "inadvertently" destroyed.
"The two sets of records underwent quantum entanglement at some point in the late 80's..."
posted by Krrrlson at 8:15 PM on July 16, 2004
"The two sets of records underwent quantum entanglement at some point in the late 80's..."
posted by Krrrlson at 8:15 PM on July 16, 2004
"Five bucks says the Texas records, too, will have been "inadvertently" destroyed."
And ten bucks says nobody cares. Democracy has been built a terrible blow.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 9:36 PM on July 16, 2004
And ten bucks says nobody cares. Democracy has been built a terrible blow.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 9:36 PM on July 16, 2004
I care. Pay up.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:44 AM on July 17, 2004
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:44 AM on July 17, 2004
Peter H:
The Texas Air Guard headquarters are at Camp Maybury, right off MoPac and 35th street. Used to drive by there every day on the way to work. Although I suspect they have a little "extra security" now. Although looking at this site from UT - it appears that at least some Texas National Guard Records are stored by the Texas State Library and Archives Commission, which is part of the Capitol complex.
A quick search of their online catalog turns up something called:
"Texas State Guard/Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard Reserve Corps records, 1938-1983, undated, (bulk 1941-1945) "
Who knows - there looks to be a fairly complex cataloging system and there is also quite an extensive policy regarding the use of state records - but it will be interesting to see what happens.
posted by sixdifferentways at 3:04 AM on July 18, 2004
The Texas Air Guard headquarters are at Camp Maybury, right off MoPac and 35th street. Used to drive by there every day on the way to work. Although I suspect they have a little "extra security" now. Although looking at this site from UT - it appears that at least some Texas National Guard Records are stored by the Texas State Library and Archives Commission, which is part of the Capitol complex.
A quick search of their online catalog turns up something called:
"Texas State Guard/Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard Reserve Corps records, 1938-1983, undated, (bulk 1941-1945) "
Who knows - there looks to be a fairly complex cataloging system and there is also quite an extensive policy regarding the use of state records - but it will be interesting to see what happens.
posted by sixdifferentways at 3:04 AM on July 18, 2004
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OMFG! They even got to the Gruaniad!
posted by Armitage Shanks at 11:48 AM on July 16, 2004