That's impressive
September 30, 2004 12:24 PM Subscribe
Life imitates parody of life. Much like last night's Daily Show segment mocking the idea of pre-written post-debate analysis, here's the Associated Press' post-debate summary. And not a second too soon, what with the debate not starting for another five hours or so.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- Brandon Blatcher
The BUSH team is already gearing up for their attack mode at DebateFacts.com. I suppose it'll be a site with a giant list of "lies" they'll refute with "facts" and I have no doubt the entire site is already written, and ready to upload.
This is what happens when you remove any real aspects of a debate from tonight's "debate." The whole thing is already scripted, all the questions were answered months ago by each candidate's team, and no surprises will come out.
In other words, our election process is broken.
posted by mathowie at 12:36 PM on September 30, 2004
This is what happens when you remove any real aspects of a debate from tonight's "debate." The whole thing is already scripted, all the questions were answered months ago by each candidate's team, and no surprises will come out.
In other words, our election process is broken.
posted by mathowie at 12:36 PM on September 30, 2004
Cool, can you find the one that gives the outcome of the election already, just to get all this stuff over with?
posted by greasepig at 12:39 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by greasepig at 12:39 PM on September 30, 2004
See also opendebates.com; the debates are a complete sham.
posted by donovan at 12:40 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by donovan at 12:40 PM on September 30, 2004
Hmmm.... It's not as blatant as what was on the Daily Show last night (lord, I love that show). It looks like a story template with "was expected to..." paragraphs and "what they did that day" paragraphs holding space for more detailed information to be added later. I wonder if this is pre-event spade-work that is intended to be filled-in with real news after the event and was accidently dropped into the news-queue.
/cutting AP huge amounts of slack
We should save this and check it against what comes out after the debate.
posted by mmahaffie at 12:41 PM on September 30, 2004
/cutting AP huge amounts of slack
We should save this and check it against what comes out after the debate.
posted by mmahaffie at 12:41 PM on September 30, 2004
That's just... really strange.
posted by SweetJesus at 12:42 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by SweetJesus at 12:42 PM on September 30, 2004
Bush Suffers Breakdown On TV, Wins Debate
Thu Sep 30th, 2004 at 04:59:07 GMT
AP-In a stunning display of raw emotion never before seen on national television, President George W. Bush appeared to suffer a psychological breakdown during last night's square-off with Democratic nominee John Kerry.
Political commentators were quick to agree that Bush won the debate.
Observers first suspected a change in Bush's emotional state when, following a blistering attack from Kerry, a large, apparently wet stain began to appear on the front of the President's pants.
Laying his head upon the podium, Bush began to speak in a soft, high-pitched voice. His microphone was able to pick up questions apparently aimed at his father, former President George H.W. Bush, rather than his opponent. "Daddy. Daddy. Daddy, why don't you love me? " Bush whimpered.
Cokie Roberts, in a post debate roundtable on ABC, stated that such actions "clearly presented a softer, sensitive side" of Bush, "that every man in America will identify with."
Moments later Bush appeared to regain his energy, bolting upright and loudly asking "What's a nigga got to do to get a drink around here?" He then began pounding on the podium while chanting "Jack and Coke, Jack and Coke, Jack and Coke" repeatedly.
MSNBC's Chris Matthews was quick to point out how the alcohol reference would resonate with "Joe Six-pack," while CNN's Wolf Blitzer heralded Bush's use of "the `N' word," as "an appeal to the hip-hop generation."
As Bush crumpled to the floor, his rival, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, implored the audience to "give the President some air." Kerry also called out to the audience, asking "Is there a doctor in the house?" a clear violation of the debate rules.
FoxNews anchor Brit Hume lambasted Kerry for his "patronizing attitude," while ABC's Peter Jennings stated that he felt that "No American watching is going to want to vote for a candidate who doesn't know if a doctor actually is in the house, I'm sure aboot that."
On CBS, Dan Rather told his network's viewers that the debate was being carried via a pool arrangement of cameras, and that he could not verify that Bush actually was curled up in a fetal position.
Bush's debate performance was seen by most as dealing a harsh blow to Kerry's presidential aspirations.
"If a soiled heap of laundry on the floor isn't what we need in our war against those who would do us harm, I don't know who is," stated debate moderator Jim Lehrer.
posted by four panels at 12:45 PM on September 30, 2004
Thu Sep 30th, 2004 at 04:59:07 GMT
AP-In a stunning display of raw emotion never before seen on national television, President George W. Bush appeared to suffer a psychological breakdown during last night's square-off with Democratic nominee John Kerry.
Political commentators were quick to agree that Bush won the debate.
Observers first suspected a change in Bush's emotional state when, following a blistering attack from Kerry, a large, apparently wet stain began to appear on the front of the President's pants.
Laying his head upon the podium, Bush began to speak in a soft, high-pitched voice. His microphone was able to pick up questions apparently aimed at his father, former President George H.W. Bush, rather than his opponent. "Daddy. Daddy. Daddy, why don't you love me? " Bush whimpered.
Cokie Roberts, in a post debate roundtable on ABC, stated that such actions "clearly presented a softer, sensitive side" of Bush, "that every man in America will identify with."
Moments later Bush appeared to regain his energy, bolting upright and loudly asking "What's a nigga got to do to get a drink around here?" He then began pounding on the podium while chanting "Jack and Coke, Jack and Coke, Jack and Coke" repeatedly.
MSNBC's Chris Matthews was quick to point out how the alcohol reference would resonate with "Joe Six-pack," while CNN's Wolf Blitzer heralded Bush's use of "the `N' word," as "an appeal to the hip-hop generation."
As Bush crumpled to the floor, his rival, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, implored the audience to "give the President some air." Kerry also called out to the audience, asking "Is there a doctor in the house?" a clear violation of the debate rules.
FoxNews anchor Brit Hume lambasted Kerry for his "patronizing attitude," while ABC's Peter Jennings stated that he felt that "No American watching is going to want to vote for a candidate who doesn't know if a doctor actually is in the house, I'm sure aboot that."
On CBS, Dan Rather told his network's viewers that the debate was being carried via a pool arrangement of cameras, and that he could not verify that Bush actually was curled up in a fetal position.
Bush's debate performance was seen by most as dealing a harsh blow to Kerry's presidential aspirations.
"If a soiled heap of laundry on the floor isn't what we need in our war against those who would do us harm, I don't know who is," stated debate moderator Jim Lehrer.
posted by four panels at 12:45 PM on September 30, 2004
Holy crap!!!
Yeah I'm with greasepig, just cut to the end of the book and tell us who won already. Drop the pretense, most of the nation doesn't seem to care anyway, as long as there's gas in their SUVs.
posted by zoogleplex at 12:53 PM on September 30, 2004
Yeah I'm with greasepig, just cut to the end of the book and tell us who won already. Drop the pretense, most of the nation doesn't seem to care anyway, as long as there's gas in their SUVs.
posted by zoogleplex at 12:53 PM on September 30, 2004
I wonder if this is pre-event spade-work
That's pretty close to the mark. What this actually is, I'm pretty sure, is a kind of canned "There Was A Debate Last Night" wire story for newspapers that go to press too early to wait for actual details of the debate. (Maybe overseas papers especially?) They'll run this thing tomorrow so their front page doesn't look totally clueless as to what the top story is, and then they can run a more in-depth story for the Saturday paper.
This detracts not at all from The Daily Show's point about the debate's script being mostly predetermined, but this is not a particularly egregious example of anything other than the kind of content-free news that sometimes finds its way into newspapers to meet the perceived demands of the news cycle.
posted by gompa at 12:54 PM on September 30, 2004
That's pretty close to the mark. What this actually is, I'm pretty sure, is a kind of canned "There Was A Debate Last Night" wire story for newspapers that go to press too early to wait for actual details of the debate. (Maybe overseas papers especially?) They'll run this thing tomorrow so their front page doesn't look totally clueless as to what the top story is, and then they can run a more in-depth story for the Saturday paper.
This detracts not at all from The Daily Show's point about the debate's script being mostly predetermined, but this is not a particularly egregious example of anything other than the kind of content-free news that sometimes finds its way into newspapers to meet the perceived demands of the news cycle.
posted by gompa at 12:54 PM on September 30, 2004
Free-Market News Network, Corp. (FMNN) will provide Internet broadcasting for the "Peoples Debates" featuring Michael Badnarik of the market-oriented Libertarian party and David Cobb of the Green Party. The debate will take place on Thursday, September 30, at 5 p.m.
posted by homunculus at 12:57 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by homunculus at 12:57 PM on September 30, 2004
four panels,
Was that a pre-written parody of this pre-written post-debate analysis?
posted by Otis at 1:00 PM on September 30, 2004
Was that a pre-written parody of this pre-written post-debate analysis?
posted by Otis at 1:00 PM on September 30, 2004
This is, um, interesting.
What is this actually called though, a pre-post debate analysis? Good thing it wasn't written by Dan Rather!
On preview: Ahh, a pre-written post-debate analysis. Thanks Otis!
posted by fenriq at 1:03 PM on September 30, 2004
What is this actually called though, a pre-post debate analysis? Good thing it wasn't written by Dan Rather!
On preview: Ahh, a pre-written post-debate analysis. Thanks Otis!
posted by fenriq at 1:03 PM on September 30, 2004
four panels -- You need to change the dateline on that to October 1st :-)
The AP "template" (I guess) shows something a little more sinister -- the fact that apparently the President needs to be handled with kid gloves in the press, a bit like someone competing in the Special Olympics.
posted by clevershark at 1:09 PM on September 30, 2004
The AP "template" (I guess) shows something a little more sinister -- the fact that apparently the President needs to be handled with kid gloves in the press, a bit like someone competing in the Special Olympics.
posted by clevershark at 1:09 PM on September 30, 2004
What gompa said. This is standard stuff put out for afternoon papers.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:14 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:14 PM on September 30, 2004
Yeah, but who won?
i don't know who won, but i can tell you who lost: we did. all of us.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:15 PM on September 30, 2004
i don't know who won, but i can tell you who lost: we did. all of us.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:15 PM on September 30, 2004
"and then I took the issues and smashed them together into one super issue and then I dropped it on senator Kerry's head and said..... "Now You've Got Issues"."
"Arnold, the debate hasn't happened yet!"
"I traveled into tha future Co-nan!"
posted by donth at 1:21 PM on September 30, 2004
"Arnold, the debate hasn't happened yet!"
"I traveled into tha future Co-nan!"
posted by donth at 1:21 PM on September 30, 2004
It's not a debate, it's a collection of soundbites waiting to happen.
posted by clevershark at 1:27 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by clevershark at 1:27 PM on September 30, 2004
All I want is for Kerry to land a good point and then turn to Bush, do the v hands around his groin and say "Suck it!". That would make the whole farce worthwhile.
posted by fenriq at 1:34 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by fenriq at 1:34 PM on September 30, 2004
All I want is for Kerry to land a good point and then turn to Bush, do the v hands around his groin and say "Suck it!". That would make the whole farce worthwhile.
That reminds me of the deal I made with a friend during the last election... I swore that if Bush opened one of the debates by turning to Gore and yelling "Vice President Gore, WELCOME TO THE TERRORDOME!" I'd vote for him and feel ok about it.
I guess I'll extend the offer to this election. You hear me George? One swing-state vote is yours if you welcome Kerry to the Terrordome.
posted by COBRA! at 1:55 PM on September 30, 2004
That reminds me of the deal I made with a friend during the last election... I swore that if Bush opened one of the debates by turning to Gore and yelling "Vice President Gore, WELCOME TO THE TERRORDOME!" I'd vote for him and feel ok about it.
I guess I'll extend the offer to this election. You hear me George? One swing-state vote is yours if you welcome Kerry to the Terrordome.
posted by COBRA! at 1:55 PM on September 30, 2004
I don't suppose anyone has a mirror - the ABC site is now saying that content is unavailable.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:57 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:57 PM on September 30, 2004
On a second tought I may have figured out why this isn't going to be an unedited, unrestricted debate as matt pointed out above:
President George W. Bush offered an unexpected reason on Monday for cracking down on frivolous medical lawsuits: "Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."
Now if I was responsible for writing ameliored answers for Bush I'd be almost literally sweating my liver out, as a slip like that is going to be remembered and Bush is no Regan (if my memory serves Reagan, challenged about problems of being nearly 70 years old when becoming President, reversed brilliantly the question by saying he was not going to exploit politically his opponent young age and inexperience...a real coup de grace one would expect from a showman (on a tangent: kind of very sad this could make a difference)).
Question remains, why did the Dem accept the limitations knowing that Kerry is much much more articulate and eventually can work out not-precanned statements ? Sounds like the agreement was a pre-condition set first...but by who ? Bush speech writer ?
posted by elpapacito at 1:59 PM on September 30, 2004
President George W. Bush offered an unexpected reason on Monday for cracking down on frivolous medical lawsuits: "Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."
Now if I was responsible for writing ameliored answers for Bush I'd be almost literally sweating my liver out, as a slip like that is going to be remembered and Bush is no Regan (if my memory serves Reagan, challenged about problems of being nearly 70 years old when becoming President, reversed brilliantly the question by saying he was not going to exploit politically his opponent young age and inexperience...a real coup de grace one would expect from a showman (on a tangent: kind of very sad this could make a difference)).
Question remains, why did the Dem accept the limitations knowing that Kerry is much much more articulate and eventually can work out not-precanned statements ? Sounds like the agreement was a pre-condition set first...but by who ? Bush speech writer ?
posted by elpapacito at 1:59 PM on September 30, 2004
Sorry, fenriq, the two campaigns in their memorandum of understanding specifically ruled out any kind of groin-related gesturing. And i quote:
Neither signatory may gesticulate about his nether regions in any that either explicitly or implicitly invites the other to eat, suck, jump on, or interact with the gesturer's genitalia in any way. Signatories also may not respond to one another's rhetorical points by claiming they have their [opponent's rhetorical point] "right here," whether or not that claim is accompanied by a gesture or handling of the genitalia.
Most observers felt that was something the Kerry campaign fought against but finally had to concede.
posted by luser at 2:06 PM on September 30, 2004
Neither signatory may gesticulate about his nether regions in any that either explicitly or implicitly invites the other to eat, suck, jump on, or interact with the gesturer's genitalia in any way. Signatories also may not respond to one another's rhetorical points by claiming they have their [opponent's rhetorical point] "right here," whether or not that claim is accompanied by a gesture or handling of the genitalia.
Most observers felt that was something the Kerry campaign fought against but finally had to concede.
posted by luser at 2:06 PM on September 30, 2004
It's a scripted farce--they're not even allowed to directly address each other.
I'm debating whether to even watch it at all--and four panels is absolutely right. Bush could eat a baby live during the debate and he'll still be declared the winner.
posted by amberglow at 2:06 PM on September 30, 2004
I'm debating whether to even watch it at all--and four panels is absolutely right. Bush could eat a baby live during the debate and he'll still be declared the winner.
posted by amberglow at 2:06 PM on September 30, 2004
... why did the Dem accept the limitations ...
Easy: Because it was the only way they would let Kerry on the golfcourse. It's called a "handicap."
Aside: It suddenly occurred to me that I don't know whether Kerry golfs. If he doesn't, he'd be the first since Carter who didn't, and probably only the second since Truman.
posted by lodurr at 2:07 PM on September 30, 2004
Easy: Because it was the only way they would let Kerry on the golfcourse. It's called a "handicap."
Aside: It suddenly occurred to me that I don't know whether Kerry golfs. If he doesn't, he'd be the first since Carter who didn't, and probably only the second since Truman.
posted by lodurr at 2:07 PM on September 30, 2004
But i do want Kerry to quote daddy Bush on not going after Saddam, or all the way to Baghdad. The father's words and actions are a really good way to get the son.
posted by amberglow at 2:09 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by amberglow at 2:09 PM on September 30, 2004
crash davis: unfortunately I can't find any mirror , but I guess the article was replaced with this
released a few mins ago , which contains part of the ABC missing article, but has been extended and altered.
posted by elpapacito at 2:11 PM on September 30, 2004
released a few mins ago , which contains part of the ABC missing article, but has been extended and altered.
posted by elpapacito at 2:11 PM on September 30, 2004
I think I'd find more value watching two anemic and emotionally fragile six-year olds have a slap-fight over half of an Oreo than watching this debate. I still going to, even if those mooks aren't allowed to engage in any verbal fisticuffs.
posted by sciurus at 2:15 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by sciurus at 2:15 PM on September 30, 2004
NB: Those who missed the text can head on over to Atrio's blog to read it there.
posted by RavinDave at 2:20 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by RavinDave at 2:20 PM on September 30, 2004
Or, maybe I'm mistaken. Did Atrios miss the original too? He seems to have posted what elpapacito just linked to.
I'm befuddled.
posted by RavinDave at 2:22 PM on September 30, 2004
I'm befuddled.
posted by RavinDave at 2:22 PM on September 30, 2004
In case I'm not around tomorrow for the Metafilter debate wrap-up....
What XQUZYPHYR said. And PP, of course you would think that.
posted by eatitlive at 2:26 PM on September 30, 2004
What XQUZYPHYR said. And PP, of course you would think that.
posted by eatitlive at 2:26 PM on September 30, 2004
Damn, those 32 pages of conditions! I bet it won't keep Bush from hamming it up while Kerry's speaking (and yeah, I know about the no cutting away from the speaker condition but the networks are going to ignore it).
Anyone got the text in their cache?
posted by fenriq at 2:27 PM on September 30, 2004
Anyone got the text in their cache?
posted by fenriq at 2:27 PM on September 30, 2004
I didn't particularly understand the humor last night until I saw this. Damned lazy journalists
posted by destro at 2:32 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by destro at 2:32 PM on September 30, 2004
ravin:
my link:
After a deluge of campaign speeches and hostile television ads, President Bush (news - web sites) and challenger John Kerry (news - web sites) will get their chance to face each other
atrio blog:
After a deluge of campaign speeches and hostile television ads, President Bush and challenger John Kerry got their chance to face each other directly Thursday night before an audience of tens of millions of voters in a high-stakes debate about terrorism, the Iraq war and the bloody aftermath.
my link:
The 90-minute encounterwill be particularly crucial for Kerry, trailing slightly in the polls and struggling for momentum less than five weeks before the election. The Democratic candidate faced the challenge of presenting himself as a credible commander in chief after a torrent of Republican criticism that he was prone to changing his positions.
Atrio's
The 90-minute encounter was particularly crucial for Kerry, trailing slightly in the polls and struggling for momentum less than five weeks before the election. The Democratic candidate faced the challenge of presenting himself as a credible commander in chief after a torrent of Republican criticism that he was prone to changing his positions.
posted by elpapacito at 2:35 PM on September 30, 2004
my link:
After a deluge of campaign speeches and hostile television ads, President Bush (news - web sites) and challenger John Kerry (news - web sites) will get their chance to face each other
atrio blog:
After a deluge of campaign speeches and hostile television ads, President Bush and challenger John Kerry got their chance to face each other directly Thursday night before an audience of tens of millions of voters in a high-stakes debate about terrorism, the Iraq war and the bloody aftermath.
my link:
The 90-minute encounterwill be particularly crucial for Kerry, trailing slightly in the polls and struggling for momentum less than five weeks before the election. The Democratic candidate faced the challenge of presenting himself as a credible commander in chief after a torrent of Republican criticism that he was prone to changing his positions.
Atrio's
The 90-minute encounter was particularly crucial for Kerry, trailing slightly in the polls and struggling for momentum less than five weeks before the election. The Democratic candidate faced the challenge of presenting himself as a credible commander in chief after a torrent of Republican criticism that he was prone to changing his positions.
posted by elpapacito at 2:35 PM on September 30, 2004
Well ... at least they aren't repeating the Gallup double-digit meme. Give'em that at least.
posted by RavinDave at 2:41 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by RavinDave at 2:41 PM on September 30, 2004
So...ABC has a lazy journalist, big news. U.S. authorizes torture, not such big news. CBS memos all over again. Focus people!
posted by destro at 2:58 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by destro at 2:58 PM on September 30, 2004
In case anyone wants to see it, I mirrored it here
posted by tittergrrl at 3:28 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by tittergrrl at 3:28 PM on September 30, 2004
STEWART: But what happens if actual news happens?
HELMS: That’s what bloggers are for.
Priceless.
posted by LouReedsSon at 5:53 PM on September 30, 2004
HELMS: That’s what bloggers are for.
Priceless.
posted by LouReedsSon at 5:53 PM on September 30, 2004
The BUSH team is already gearing up for their attack mode at DebateFacts.com. I suppose it'll be a site with a giant list of "lies" they'll refute with "facts" and I have no doubt the entire site is already written, and ready to upload.
no way. they cranked out all that crap in 30 minutes?!?!?
isn't one of the defining aspects of a "debate" the opportunity of participants to respond?
why respond to debate statements live on a web site? they're almost admitting that the president can't answer these allegations himself.
how embarrassing for the country. for god's sake, don't watch.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:38 PM on September 30, 2004
no way. they cranked out all that crap in 30 minutes?!?!?
isn't one of the defining aspects of a "debate" the opportunity of participants to respond?
why respond to debate statements live on a web site? they're almost admitting that the president can't answer these allegations himself.
how embarrassing for the country. for god's sake, don't watch.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:38 PM on September 30, 2004
oh god, i just submitted to cspan.org. ugh.
"Every life is precious. That's what distinguishes us from the enemy." - George W. Bush.
i call him a liar.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:46 PM on September 30, 2004
"Every life is precious. That's what distinguishes us from the enemy." - George W. Bush.
i call him a liar.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:46 PM on September 30, 2004
Harper's was recently guilty of something like this in one of their cover-stories. The essayist writes about how he went to the Republican National Convention and made several observations, mostly concerning how predictable it was. Subscribers received the issue before the convention had even started, and in this month's issue the editor had to write an apology.
posted by swift at 7:40 PM on September 30, 2004
posted by swift at 7:40 PM on September 30, 2004
He then began pounding on the podium while chanting "Jack and Coke, Jack and Coke, Jack and Coke" repeatedly.
I can't decide if it's you or quonsar who is my Hero of the Day™, four panels. Well played!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:13 AM on October 1, 2004
I can't decide if it's you or quonsar who is my Hero of the Day™, four panels. Well played!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:13 AM on October 1, 2004
Jimmy Breslin has some winning observations :
"[ Bush ] said that by opposing the way the war in Iraq is going, Kerry was sending "mixed messages" and they are harmful to our troops. I, Bush, never change.
There were problems to this. One, Kerry cheated on him and turned a fine line: "Don't confuse the war with the warriors." Then in the middle of Bush's reiteration of dusty phrase after dusty phrase, we should remain as we are, was Ralph Waldo Emerson's, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen ..."
It was better than anything you are going to read from anybody from now to the end of the election, and you will see that Emerson quote come alive whenever Bush opens his mouth and starts the same old lines. George Bush writes in crayon."
Maybe that Emerson quote should live below Quonsar's animated Gif ?
Heh.
posted by troutfishing at 6:40 AM on October 1, 2004
"[ Bush ] said that by opposing the way the war in Iraq is going, Kerry was sending "mixed messages" and they are harmful to our troops. I, Bush, never change.
There were problems to this. One, Kerry cheated on him and turned a fine line: "Don't confuse the war with the warriors." Then in the middle of Bush's reiteration of dusty phrase after dusty phrase, we should remain as we are, was Ralph Waldo Emerson's, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen ..."
It was better than anything you are going to read from anybody from now to the end of the election, and you will see that Emerson quote come alive whenever Bush opens his mouth and starts the same old lines. George Bush writes in crayon."
Maybe that Emerson quote should live below Quonsar's animated Gif ?
Heh.
posted by troutfishing at 6:40 AM on October 1, 2004
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posted by elpapacito at 12:34 PM on September 30, 2004