Dear Mike, Iraq sucks
October 5, 2004 2:08 PM Subscribe
Dear Mike, Iraq sucks. Michael Moore received a flood of letters and emails from disillusioned and angry American soldiers serving in Iraq. From today's Guardian.
Here's why I am not all hot and bothered by the book, fifteen minutes after the first load gets dumped at Barnes and Noble, Karl Rove will have proven that half the soldiers never existed, and the other half are pretend playmates of Mr. Moore. Doesn't even matter whether it's true or not, the allegations will be believed by those that don't want to think that the troops aren't as gung ho as they'd like them to be.
posted by Keith Talent at 2:20 PM on October 5, 2004
posted by Keith Talent at 2:20 PM on October 5, 2004
Moore should have handed these letters to a source that people would actually believe, a source that has some credibility outside of his choir. As it stands now, this book will be dismissed by anyone who actually is in need of reading the thoughts contained inside. A waste, really. A sad waste. But it will help Moore's legacy, which is what he really has concern for.
posted by xmutex at 2:22 PM on October 5, 2004
posted by xmutex at 2:22 PM on October 5, 2004
I went out and bought "Fahrenheit 9/11" DVD today and am just sitting down to watch it for the first time.
This made a nice appetizer.
posted by RavinDave at 2:24 PM on October 5, 2004
This made a nice appetizer.
posted by RavinDave at 2:24 PM on October 5, 2004
I can't believe we've never discussed this here, but I couldn't find it on "search".
Here's the thing: I bet that the vast, vast majority of these letters are the real deal. And if the folks who wrote to Moore are pleased to have their opinions and observations shared with his following, and/or random curious readers, then great.
But there's probably an equal number of military personnel who have, or who want to, or who will write letters about how the Iraq war is going really well and the pride they take in helping people rebuild their society. And those letters are, or will be, equally honest.
And both sets of experiences, to me, are fundamentally orthogonal to the larger issues involved in the war.
War is a very complicated thing. We should all read The Red Badge of Courage whenever we forget that.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:29 PM on October 5, 2004
Here's the thing: I bet that the vast, vast majority of these letters are the real deal. And if the folks who wrote to Moore are pleased to have their opinions and observations shared with his following, and/or random curious readers, then great.
But there's probably an equal number of military personnel who have, or who want to, or who will write letters about how the Iraq war is going really well and the pride they take in helping people rebuild their society. And those letters are, or will be, equally honest.
And both sets of experiences, to me, are fundamentally orthogonal to the larger issues involved in the war.
War is a very complicated thing. We should all read The Red Badge of Courage whenever we forget that.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:29 PM on October 5, 2004
Will They Ever Trust Us Again? Letters from the Warzone to Michael Moore by Michael Moore, to be published by Allen Lane on October 7 at £12.99.
...I love Mike, but that's funny...
posted by Robot Johnny at 2:32 PM on October 5, 2004
...I love Mike, but that's funny...
posted by Robot Johnny at 2:32 PM on October 5, 2004
Funny, I don't like Michael Moore very much but I appreciate his work tremendously. I think his message would be far better recieved if he paid someone to edit his gargantuan ego out of the "documentaries".
But yeah, this is good stuff. Like tossing a water balloon into a tsunami but still good stuff.
posted by fenriq at 2:45 PM on October 5, 2004
But yeah, this is good stuff. Like tossing a water balloon into a tsunami but still good stuff.
posted by fenriq at 2:45 PM on October 5, 2004
Someone's back is getting scratched here, and it ain't the Iraqis'!
priceless. Iraq Attaq in a nutshell.
posted by matteo at 2:45 PM on October 5, 2004
priceless. Iraq Attaq in a nutshell.
posted by matteo at 2:45 PM on October 5, 2004
Can we all shut the fuck up with the "Why does $WHATEVER hate America"? It's really tiresome.
Note: It would not be clever if you reponded to me by asking me why I hate America.
posted by xmutex at 2:58 PM on October 5, 2004
Note: It would not be clever if you reponded to me by asking me why I hate America.
posted by xmutex at 2:58 PM on October 5, 2004
I wonder exactly how much money Moore has made out of the Bush administration being in power. Funny, eh?
If the soldiers found being in Iraq a fulfilling and uplifting experience, I'm pretty sure that any letters addressed to a Mr Rove would rapidly find themselves in the public spotlight.
posted by Mossy at 3:02 PM on October 5, 2004
If the soldiers found being in Iraq a fulfilling and uplifting experience, I'm pretty sure that any letters addressed to a Mr Rove would rapidly find themselves in the public spotlight.
posted by Mossy at 3:02 PM on October 5, 2004
I wonder exactly how much money Moore has made out of the Bush administration being in power. Funny, eh?
Probably enough to the point where voting for Bush would mean he gets to keep most all of it.
I keed! I keed!
posted by mathowie at 3:17 PM on October 5, 2004
Probably enough to the point where voting for Bush would mean he gets to keep most all of it.
I keed! I keed!
posted by mathowie at 3:17 PM on October 5, 2004
xmutex, why do you hate Metafilter?
posted by eyeballkid at 3:25 PM on October 5, 2004
posted by eyeballkid at 3:25 PM on October 5, 2004
Why does xmutex...oh nevermind. ed\26h, what that means is, these are people who are trying to wrest control of the country in which they live from a foreign occupier, a foreign occupier who would forcibly take the wealth from the land...and gee, why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, that's what the American colonies did in the revolution against jolly ol' England.
So why does pointing that out make one anti-American? I never understood that... I mean, to me, having been raised on a diet of the American revolution and American love of the underdog, I can completely understand that rationale intellectually, even while being absolutely horrified that this time WE are the foreign occupier.
Wouldn't YOU fight if a foreign force occupied YOUR land?
posted by airgirl at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2004
So why does pointing that out make one anti-American? I never understood that... I mean, to me, having been raised on a diet of the American revolution and American love of the underdog, I can completely understand that rationale intellectually, even while being absolutely horrified that this time WE are the foreign occupier.
Wouldn't YOU fight if a foreign force occupied YOUR land?
posted by airgirl at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2004
Depressing stuff. I'm sure the rest of the book is just as bad.
I don't doubt that these soldiers are not the majority, but I also don't doubt their authenticity.
posted by cell divide at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2004
I don't doubt that these soldiers are not the majority, but I also don't doubt their authenticity.
posted by cell divide at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2004
Can we all shut the fuck up with the "Why does $WHATEVER hate America"? It's really tiresome.
Also, "Why do you hate Why do you hate America?" would be tiresome.
In fact, "((Why do you hate) * N) America?" would be tiresome for all values of N >=1.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 3:55 PM on October 5, 2004
Also, "Why do you hate Why do you hate America?" would be tiresome.
In fact, "((Why do you hate) * N) America?" would be tiresome for all values of N >=1.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 3:55 PM on October 5, 2004
How about just WDYHA? Would that make a difference?
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:32 PM on October 5, 2004
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:32 PM on October 5, 2004
Wouldn't YOU fight if a foreign force occupied YOUR land?
Even if they removed Saddam Hussein from power? What if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed John Kerry as President?
posted by gyc at 4:34 PM on October 5, 2004
Even if they removed Saddam Hussein from power? What if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed John Kerry as President?
posted by gyc at 4:34 PM on October 5, 2004
Moore should have handed these letters to a source that people would actually believe, a source that has some credibility outside of his choir. As it stands now, this book will be dismissed by anyone who actually is in need of reading the thoughts contained inside. A waste, really. A sad waste. But it will help Moore's legacy, which is what he really has concern for.
respectfully, hogwash.
moore's actions brilliantly parody the entire conservative message machine, including their sheer blatancy. he is, after all, an entertainer.
posted by quonsar at 4:40 PM on October 5, 2004
respectfully, hogwash.
moore's actions brilliantly parody the entire conservative message machine, including their sheer blatancy. he is, after all, an entertainer.
posted by quonsar at 4:40 PM on October 5, 2004
If the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed John Kerry as President, there are metric buttloads of people in the US who would be blazing away with their rifles.
And if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed a bunch of nonentities as the Governing Council, I would be right there with them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:43 PM on October 5, 2004
And if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed a bunch of nonentities as the Governing Council, I would be right there with them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:43 PM on October 5, 2004
Even if they removed Saddam Hussein from power? What if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed John Kerry as President?
Would you like a victory Timbit, comrade?
posted by ODiV at 5:00 PM on October 5, 2004
Would you like a victory Timbit, comrade?
posted by ODiV at 5:00 PM on October 5, 2004
Even if they removed Saddam Hussein from power? What if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed John Kerry as President?
Is that from Ann's new book about how to talk to liberals? If so, get your money back. Of course we would fight. I'd fight even if they brought Tsongas and Wellstone back to life and installed them as Co-Emperor Paul-Paul the First.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:04 PM on October 5, 2004
Is that from Ann's new book about how to talk to liberals? If so, get your money back. Of course we would fight. I'd fight even if they brought Tsongas and Wellstone back to life and installed them as Co-Emperor Paul-Paul the First.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:04 PM on October 5, 2004
ODiV: that's funny!
[i'll take any variety except "dutchie" or raspberry jelly]
And, more broadly: if we Canucks take out Bush and install Kerry, at least it would be an *American* that (at least) some of the *American People* want in office...
posted by Al_Truist at 5:09 PM on October 5, 2004
[i'll take any variety except "dutchie" or raspberry jelly]
And, more broadly: if we Canucks take out Bush and install Kerry, at least it would be an *American* that (at least) some of the *American People* want in office...
posted by Al_Truist at 5:09 PM on October 5, 2004
What if the Canadians forced Bush out of power and installed John Kerry as President?
Why, they'd be welcome as liberators, of course.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:10 PM on October 5, 2004
Why, they'd be welcome as liberators, of course.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:10 PM on October 5, 2004
In fact, "((Why do you hate) * N) America?" would be tiresome for all values of N >=1.
Well then, I present to you N = 0:
America?
certified non-tiresome.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:17 PM on October 5, 2004
Well then, I present to you N = 0:
America?
certified non-tiresome.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:17 PM on October 5, 2004
In the news aggression against the U.S. forces is always described as being by "rebel forces".
This makes me feel so sick. The only comfort in all this was that Saddam Hussein was deposed, and that life would be better for the Iraqia. But will it? Maybe they'll only get another dictator, or fundamentalist rule. I don't think the current U.S. administration will give a damn as long as they can do business with whoever's in charge.
posted by orange swan at 5:19 PM on October 5, 2004
This makes me feel so sick. The only comfort in all this was that Saddam Hussein was deposed, and that life would be better for the Iraqia. But will it? Maybe they'll only get another dictator, or fundamentalist rule. I don't think the current U.S. administration will give a damn as long as they can do business with whoever's in charge.
posted by orange swan at 5:19 PM on October 5, 2004
Moore should have handed these letters to a source that people would actually believe, a source that has some credibility outside of his choir.
like Simon & Schuster? huh?
posted by mrgrimm at 5:21 PM on October 5, 2004
like Simon & Schuster? huh?
posted by mrgrimm at 5:21 PM on October 5, 2004
Orange Swan, one is reminded of the ancient proverb, "The frogs complained that Zeus had sent them King Log, so he sent them King Stork."
Now, Hussein was King Stork rather than King Log, that's for sure. But who's next--King Nuclear Warhead?
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:07 PM on October 5, 2004
Now, Hussein was King Stork rather than King Log, that's for sure. But who's next--King Nuclear Warhead?
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:07 PM on October 5, 2004
Show me a soldier happy to be out there, and I will show you a blushing Keyser Soze. Soldiers in Iraq are not there to protect America. An Iraqi is not a terrorist, nor is an afghan.
How about the soldiers killed? We gotta stop them!
Read the letters and figure it out for yourself. There is no better source of information about the Iraq war than the soldiers themselves. Ann Coultier, Oreily, Michael Moore, George Bush, Kerry.... these are people with outside opinions. None of us that aren't or were there fighting this war know what its like.
I get sick when I hear that anyone who opposes an American War is a traitor, a pussy, a faggot, not American. Maybe we love America more than you. At least we have the balls to stand up for other people out there. We are all over the political circle, bitch. There are conservatives out there who hate this war as much as the liberals. It is bullshit, and if no one else will do something about it we will.
I have never seen a war, and neither have many of you. It feels like I am in high school again reading Animal Farm. Stand on your convictions, but please educate yourself on what those convictions mean.
posted by Keyser Soze at 9:16 PM on October 5, 2004
How about the soldiers killed? We gotta stop them!
Read the letters and figure it out for yourself. There is no better source of information about the Iraq war than the soldiers themselves. Ann Coultier, Oreily, Michael Moore, George Bush, Kerry.... these are people with outside opinions. None of us that aren't or were there fighting this war know what its like.
I get sick when I hear that anyone who opposes an American War is a traitor, a pussy, a faggot, not American. Maybe we love America more than you. At least we have the balls to stand up for other people out there. We are all over the political circle, bitch. There are conservatives out there who hate this war as much as the liberals. It is bullshit, and if no one else will do something about it we will.
I have never seen a war, and neither have many of you. It feels like I am in high school again reading Animal Farm. Stand on your convictions, but please educate yourself on what those convictions mean.
posted by Keyser Soze at 9:16 PM on October 5, 2004
Let me reiterate: Show me a soldier more than one week out, and i'll show you a blushing keyser soze.
posted by Keyser Soze at 9:17 PM on October 5, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 9:17 PM on October 5, 2004
Keyzer Soze, better get your powder out. This guy is pretty damned upbeat about what he's doing in Iraq, and he was more than one week out when he wrote it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:26 PM on October 5, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:26 PM on October 5, 2004
The fact is that there are US military personnel in Iraq who think this was exactly the right war at the right time, and that they are helping the Iraqi people and the world.
And the fact is that there are US military personnel in Iraq who think the war was the wrong war at the wrong time, and that they are risking their lives for very little benefit.
I think that both points of view are held by honest people of integrity.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:30 PM on October 5, 2004
And the fact is that there are US military personnel in Iraq who think the war was the wrong war at the wrong time, and that they are risking their lives for very little benefit.
I think that both points of view are held by honest people of integrity.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:30 PM on October 5, 2004
But but but I thought divergent opinions meant that one or the other party was the spawn of satan? Surely it's impossible for there to be reasonable, ethical people holding opinions that differ from my own?
I say we burn Sidhedevil at the stake.
Oh, and in re: why do etc. Yes, it's retarded. I have never actually seen anyone, even in the stupidest corners of the internet, use it without irony. It is a straw man. Further, it is a stale, crumbling, decaying straw man. It is being canibalized for nests and rodent housing. By the time someone suggests acronymizing an internet catchphrase, it is several months past its prime. It has gone and joined the choir invisible, etc etc. Let it go.
posted by kavasa at 10:39 AM on October 6, 2004
I say we burn Sidhedevil at the stake.
Oh, and in re: why do etc. Yes, it's retarded. I have never actually seen anyone, even in the stupidest corners of the internet, use it without irony. It is a straw man. Further, it is a stale, crumbling, decaying straw man. It is being canibalized for nests and rodent housing. By the time someone suggests acronymizing an internet catchphrase, it is several months past its prime. It has gone and joined the choir invisible, etc etc. Let it go.
posted by kavasa at 10:39 AM on October 6, 2004
If you look in the book's appendix, you will note a listing for BooksForSoldiers.com. I founded that site and have worked with Mike on distributing books and dvds to the soldiers for almost a year.
We (BFS) receive letters with the same content and themes as those printed in this book.
Storm Bear Williams
Founder
BooksForSoldiers.com
posted by StormBear at 7:21 AM on October 7, 2004
We (BFS) receive letters with the same content and themes as those printed in this book.
Storm Bear Williams
Founder
BooksForSoldiers.com
posted by StormBear at 7:21 AM on October 7, 2004
Thanks, StormBear, both for your charity and your informed input.
posted by NortonDC at 4:09 PM on October 7, 2004
posted by NortonDC at 4:09 PM on October 7, 2004
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Moore: The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win.
posted by ed\26h at 2:17 PM on October 5, 2004