Uh oh.
October 12, 2004 5:41 PM Subscribe
"I would not bring my two sons to the Capitol between now and the election," says Sen. Mark Dayton (D-Minn.), who is closing his DC office through election day because of a recent top-secret intelligence report.
See also:
I have a friend with a job that makes certain Police Department memos things he needs to take note of. This is the one he got this morning. I've known this person for a very long time and I'm vouching for it's authenticity:
Subject: FW: Terrorist Attack on US Soil is Imminent Importance: High
LAW ENFORCEMENT SENSITIVE
At the meeting of the Southern District of the Anti-Terrorism Advisory Council (ATAC) that was held yesterday in Houston, US Attorney Michael Shelby informed the group that a terrorist attack of 09/11/01 proportions was going to be carried out on US soil within the next 6 weeks...
posted by gottabefunky at 5:46 PM on October 12, 2004
I have a friend with a job that makes certain Police Department memos things he needs to take note of. This is the one he got this morning. I've known this person for a very long time and I'm vouching for it's authenticity:
Subject: FW: Terrorist Attack on US Soil is Imminent Importance: High
LAW ENFORCEMENT SENSITIVE
At the meeting of the Southern District of the Anti-Terrorism Advisory Council (ATAC) that was held yesterday in Houston, US Attorney Michael Shelby informed the group that a terrorist attack of 09/11/01 proportions was going to be carried out on US soil within the next 6 weeks...
posted by gottabefunky at 5:46 PM on October 12, 2004
Bush/Cheney '04: Don't change coats mid-nuclear winter.
posted by PrinceValium at 5:50 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by PrinceValium at 5:50 PM on October 12, 2004
Can he also vouch for his OWN POOR GRAMMAR?????!?!?!?!?
(it's, its...SIMPLE, PEOPLE!!!)
(yes, proper grammar is more important than the terrorists.)
posted by solistrato at 6:05 PM on October 12, 2004
(it's, its...SIMPLE, PEOPLE!!!)
(yes, proper grammar is more important than the terrorists.)
posted by solistrato at 6:05 PM on October 12, 2004
Don't worry. We haven't had a terrorist attack in this country in over three years!
posted by jaronson at 6:06 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by jaronson at 6:06 PM on October 12, 2004
let's see if Bush can pay attention to this warning, as opposed to the Aug01 warnings, and keep us safe.
Or--is it another fake, politically-motivated "warning" ?
posted by amberglow at 6:10 PM on October 12, 2004
Or--is it another fake, politically-motivated "warning" ?
posted by amberglow at 6:10 PM on October 12, 2004
I question the benefit to the public of releasing such a vague story, with so few facts as to encourage rumor mongering and wild speculation, without providing any tangible benefit.
It is perfectly plausible that there is information circulating about an attack. It is also plausible that a terrorist organization is jerking our chain. It is also likely that the Bush administration, which sees its popularity soar in times of crisis, is trying to increase the panic level, but releasing information to a notoriously gullable senator. Most likely, it is the government trying to cover its ass.
What all these have in common is that we have no idea what is true and what isn't. Sure it is usually safer to stay at home than go to a governement centre during a time of conflict. But I venture is safer yet to not fuel idol speculation and panic.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:17 PM on October 12, 2004
It is perfectly plausible that there is information circulating about an attack. It is also plausible that a terrorist organization is jerking our chain. It is also likely that the Bush administration, which sees its popularity soar in times of crisis, is trying to increase the panic level, but releasing information to a notoriously gullable senator. Most likely, it is the government trying to cover its ass.
What all these have in common is that we have no idea what is true and what isn't. Sure it is usually safer to stay at home than go to a governement centre during a time of conflict. But I venture is safer yet to not fuel idol speculation and panic.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:17 PM on October 12, 2004
Sorry about the split infinite in the last sentence.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:19 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:19 PM on October 12, 2004
I thought that President Bush was unnecessarily "scaring" the American people about terrorism...but this guy is a Democrat, isn't he? I guess the threat MUST be real then.....
posted by Durwood at 6:22 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by Durwood at 6:22 PM on October 12, 2004
My question is whether the Kerry/Edwards team has a there's-a-big-terrorist-attack-before-the-election action plan.
So this could just be the Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft fearmongering we've become accustom to -OR- there could actually be a threat in which case it's either (a) thwarted and Bush takes credit or (b) goes off and death and mayhem ensue.
If it's not a faux threat, how should Kerry respond? I'm not sure. I really want him to win, but am not sure how a candidate can/should respond from both the standpoint of what's proper and effective.
posted by donovan at 6:22 PM on October 12, 2004
So this could just be the Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft fearmongering we've become accustom to -OR- there could actually be a threat in which case it's either (a) thwarted and Bush takes credit or (b) goes off and death and mayhem ensue.
If it's not a faux threat, how should Kerry respond? I'm not sure. I really want him to win, but am not sure how a candidate can/should respond from both the standpoint of what's proper and effective.
posted by donovan at 6:22 PM on October 12, 2004
That memo seems was investigated and deemed fake. The rumor was flying around the internet on September 23, but in gottabefunky's link (seanbonner.com), it was released "this morning" (October 12).
THINK, people! — or at least Google.
posted by Zurishaddai at 6:23 PM on October 12, 2004
THINK, people! — or at least Google.
posted by Zurishaddai at 6:23 PM on October 12, 2004
Someone get agent Jack Bauer of CTU onto this, straight away!
posted by armoured-ant at 6:38 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by armoured-ant at 6:38 PM on October 12, 2004
Durwood, as your big boy crush, Cheney, would say: Go fuck yourself
I think the threat is bullshit but I think that almost all of the threats have been bullshit. Bush's biggest failure as a president, and that's saying a lot, is that he's cried wolf or had others cry wolf so many times that I do not lend any credence to their whining about any present threat of a terrorist attack.
posted by substrate at 6:47 PM on October 12, 2004
I think the threat is bullshit but I think that almost all of the threats have been bullshit. Bush's biggest failure as a president, and that's saying a lot, is that he's cried wolf or had others cry wolf so many times that I do not lend any credence to their whining about any present threat of a terrorist attack.
posted by substrate at 6:47 PM on October 12, 2004
Why does Bush's popularity go up every time there's a new terrorist warning? I have the opposite reaction and get more pissed off at him each time.
posted by onlyconnect at 6:57 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by onlyconnect at 6:57 PM on October 12, 2004
I question the benefit to the public of releasing such a vague story, with so few facts as to encourage rumor mongering and wild speculation, without providing any tangible benefit.
Yeah, the public would be better informed if there were something like a color code.
posted by Wet Spot at 7:06 PM on October 12, 2004
Yeah, the public would be better informed if there were something like a color code.
posted by Wet Spot at 7:06 PM on October 12, 2004
It's somehow interesting many jumped to an immediate conclusion : it must be the terrorist. Couldn't it be that he received some personal threats ? Or that he's simply a little paranoid ?
posted by elpapacito at 7:09 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by elpapacito at 7:09 PM on October 12, 2004
FWIW, I saw this AP newswire story at about 5:30 pm EST. I got curious, went to Sen. Dayton's website to see if there was anything posted about his office closure. Nada. I called his DC office and was redirected to his Fort Snelling, MN office. Again, nothing on the recording about closing the DC office.
I live just outside Washington, DC, and have a few close friends who work with homeland security, both inside and outside the government.
I emailed one of them and asked if there was any credence to this 'top-secret intelligence', or if it was the beginning of a 'Wag The Dog.' This is a guy I know very well and trust completely. I didn't expect a direct answer... just an indication.
When he emailed back, I wasn't reassured by the tone of his vague words. He made me nervous. He would have gotten in my face for being a sissy worrywort if there wasn't anything to this.
Instead, what he said made me think that at the very least, the scuttlebutt is getting serious. My friend asked me how my car is running... and if my plans to visit out-of-state friends this month had been finalized.
I'm with you, onlyconnect. I get angrier each time there is a heightened alert. I see more and more of our freedoms being chiseled away.
But, I'm thinking that it might be time to check my ready bag... just in case. Can't hurt.
posted by Corky at 7:28 PM on October 12, 2004
I live just outside Washington, DC, and have a few close friends who work with homeland security, both inside and outside the government.
I emailed one of them and asked if there was any credence to this 'top-secret intelligence', or if it was the beginning of a 'Wag The Dog.' This is a guy I know very well and trust completely. I didn't expect a direct answer... just an indication.
When he emailed back, I wasn't reassured by the tone of his vague words. He made me nervous. He would have gotten in my face for being a sissy worrywort if there wasn't anything to this.
Instead, what he said made me think that at the very least, the scuttlebutt is getting serious. My friend asked me how my car is running... and if my plans to visit out-of-state friends this month had been finalized.
I'm with you, onlyconnect. I get angrier each time there is a heightened alert. I see more and more of our freedoms being chiseled away.
But, I'm thinking that it might be time to check my ready bag... just in case. Can't hurt.
posted by Corky at 7:28 PM on October 12, 2004
elpapacito - If he was trying to get Frist to pull other senators in (as per CNN), it's unlikely to be a personal threat.
posted by mote at 7:32 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by mote at 7:32 PM on October 12, 2004
Fort Snelling? Crap, now I'm going to be terrorized instead!
posted by neckro23 at 7:45 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by neckro23 at 7:45 PM on October 12, 2004
The first thing that I thought when I heard this--on FoxNews--was that it is "Terrorist Threat by Proxy".
That is, since so many people are (I hope) aware that the Bush administration likes to issue meaningless threats to distract from bad news, they'd somehow gotten some other guy to have his own private press conference about it. That way, they don't have to look like they're the ones doing the fearmongering.
That it's a Democrat doing it is essentially meaningless. Look at Zell Miller. September eleventh, and the "War on Terror" have both caused people to lose their minds with fear.
Remember Roosevelt? He said that "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". That's a rational reaction to September eleventh, and and American one. Not this kind of thing, and not the endless reports out of John Ashcroft and--every thirty seconds on the FoxNews ticker!--the endless reminders about our Terror Thermometer. If this is real, it's bad if it happens. Bush did not defend America in 2001, and he's not doing it now.
If it's not real--or "averted"--it's still meaningless. You can't prove a negative, especially when your government is so secretive that it can't tell you what it's preventing.
posted by interrobang at 7:48 PM on October 12, 2004
That is, since so many people are (I hope) aware that the Bush administration likes to issue meaningless threats to distract from bad news, they'd somehow gotten some other guy to have his own private press conference about it. That way, they don't have to look like they're the ones doing the fearmongering.
That it's a Democrat doing it is essentially meaningless. Look at Zell Miller. September eleventh, and the "War on Terror" have both caused people to lose their minds with fear.
Remember Roosevelt? He said that "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". That's a rational reaction to September eleventh, and and American one. Not this kind of thing, and not the endless reports out of John Ashcroft and--every thirty seconds on the FoxNews ticker!--the endless reminders about our Terror Thermometer. If this is real, it's bad if it happens. Bush did not defend America in 2001, and he's not doing it now.
If it's not real--or "averted"--it's still meaningless. You can't prove a negative, especially when your government is so secretive that it can't tell you what it's preventing.
posted by interrobang at 7:48 PM on October 12, 2004
i like mark ... but ... as usual our current crop of senators from minnesota sure makes me miss wellstone.
posted by specialk420 at 8:26 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by specialk420 at 8:26 PM on October 12, 2004
Way to fear-monger, there. I'm still voting.
posted by FormlessOne at 8:51 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by FormlessOne at 8:51 PM on October 12, 2004
I'm with you, onlyconnect. I get angrier each time there is a heightened alert. I see more and more of our freedoms being chiseled away.
But, I'm thinking that it might be time to check my ready bag... just in case. Can't hurt.
C'mon Corky... you can't have it both ways.
posted by Witty at 8:54 PM on October 12, 2004
But, I'm thinking that it might be time to check my ready bag... just in case. Can't hurt.
C'mon Corky... you can't have it both ways.
posted by Witty at 8:54 PM on October 12, 2004
To me it sounds like Dayton was reading between the lines of what Trist said, and trusted his hunch.
posted by Espoo2 at 9:16 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by Espoo2 at 9:16 PM on October 12, 2004
Maybe it's because I live in flyover (As opposed to crash into country), or I'm lulled into a false sense of security bouyed by the fact that most anti-terrorism are being spent in rural states, but I'm not that worried about another terrorist attack. It could happen, but there's little we personally can do to prevent it. Sure, we should keep our eyes out for suspicious activities, and law enforcement need to do their job properly, but worrying about it won't solve anything.
posted by drezdn at 10:34 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by drezdn at 10:34 PM on October 12, 2004
it's the devil, people. those stupid scientists on mars let him into our reality and now he is coming to earth. the best thing to do now is pray. for hulk hogan to save us. amen.
posted by bargle at 11:26 PM on October 12, 2004
posted by bargle at 11:26 PM on October 12, 2004
All I have to say is, stay out of shopping malls on Halloween.
Trust me.
[the candy they're handing out is horrible]
posted by adampsyche at 4:31 AM on October 13, 2004
Trust me.
[the candy they're handing out is horrible]
posted by adampsyche at 4:31 AM on October 13, 2004
To me it sounds like Dayton was reading between the lines of what Trist said, and trusted his hunch.
That's if Dayton knew how to read and was capable of having a thought. I like the guy, I voted for the guy, but he makes the Vikings coach look smart in comparison.
If he's transferring his staff to Minnesota, that makes me feel a little bit safer about living in the middle of Saint Paul at least. It's all about looking out for his constituents, Dayton has helped make Minnesota safe and he's proving it with his actions.
Minnesota's junior Senator, Norm Coleman-R said that Dayton is 'sending the wrong message to the terrorists', whatever the hell that means. Norm Coleman is so tough, he's willing to put the lives of his staffers on the line, he's like a brave field general.
posted by graventy at 6:18 AM on October 13, 2004
That's if Dayton knew how to read and was capable of having a thought. I like the guy, I voted for the guy, but he makes the Vikings coach look smart in comparison.
If he's transferring his staff to Minnesota, that makes me feel a little bit safer about living in the middle of Saint Paul at least. It's all about looking out for his constituents, Dayton has helped make Minnesota safe and he's proving it with his actions.
Minnesota's junior Senator, Norm Coleman-R said that Dayton is 'sending the wrong message to the terrorists', whatever the hell that means. Norm Coleman is so tough, he's willing to put the lives of his staffers on the line, he's like a brave field general.
posted by graventy at 6:18 AM on October 13, 2004
Just so I understand this: If an attack happens, it will prove that Bush failed to protect us once again, that Iraq has actually increased terrorism, etc. However, if there is no attack, it will prove that Bush is a fearmonger trying to raise his polling numbers.
Joseph Heller would be so proud.
posted by pardonyou? at 7:00 AM on October 13, 2004
Joseph Heller would be so proud.
posted by pardonyou? at 7:00 AM on October 13, 2004
Why does Bush's popularity go up every time there's a new terrorist warning? I have the opposite reaction and get more pissed off at him each time.
This morning's Washington Post has a short piece in Al Kamen's In the Loop about how Robb Willer at Cornell has found a relationship between the warning levels and Bush's approval rating (even on NON-war issues!).
posted by terrapin at 7:18 AM on October 13, 2004
This morning's Washington Post has a short piece in Al Kamen's In the Loop about how Robb Willer at Cornell has found a relationship between the warning levels and Bush's approval rating (even on NON-war issues!).
posted by terrapin at 7:18 AM on October 13, 2004
U.S. security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico in July.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:43 AM on October 13, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:43 AM on October 13, 2004
To me it sounds like Dayton was reading between the lines of what Trist said, and trusted his hunch.
Ahh, but can Bush trust his hunch?
posted by soyjoy at 8:05 AM on October 13, 2004
Ahh, but can Bush trust his hunch?
posted by soyjoy at 8:05 AM on October 13, 2004
Just so I understand this: If an attack happens, it will prove that Bush failed to protect us once again, that Iraq has actually increased terrorism, etc. However, if there is no attack, it will prove that Bush is a fearmonger trying to raise his polling numbers.
But if there is an attack plot, and it is thwarted, and the plotter goes to jail, then Bush gets a gold star, which is more credit than the GOP gives Clinton for stopping the Millennium attacks.
There is no catch-22, there is just a woefully insecure and incompetent president.
posted by bashos_frog at 8:35 AM on October 13, 2004
But if there is an attack plot, and it is thwarted, and the plotter goes to jail, then Bush gets a gold star, which is more credit than the GOP gives Clinton for stopping the Millennium attacks.
There is no catch-22, there is just a woefully insecure and incompetent president.
posted by bashos_frog at 8:35 AM on October 13, 2004
But if there is an attack plot, and it is thwarted, and the plotter goes to jail
Attacks can be thwarted without anyone ever going to jail. In fact, Hollywood conventions notwithstanding, I'd be willing to bet that most attacks that are prevented are simply called off, not stopped "in the nick of time" by apprehending the bad guy. In fact, this is what has always bugged me about the "cry wolfe" meme -- there's no reasonable basis to assume that because an attack did not, in fact, happen, that it wasn't an actual threat.
posted by pardonyou? at 9:31 AM on October 13, 2004
Attacks can be thwarted without anyone ever going to jail. In fact, Hollywood conventions notwithstanding, I'd be willing to bet that most attacks that are prevented are simply called off, not stopped "in the nick of time" by apprehending the bad guy. In fact, this is what has always bugged me about the "cry wolfe" meme -- there's no reasonable basis to assume that because an attack did not, in fact, happen, that it wasn't an actual threat.
posted by pardonyou? at 9:31 AM on October 13, 2004
In fact, this is what has always bugged me about the "cry wolfe" meme -- there's no reasonable basis to assume that because an attack did not, in fact, happen, that it wasn't an actual threat.
Similarly, there's no reasonable basis to suppose that it ever was. Especially given how many times we've been lied to by these amoral bastards.
posted by lodurr at 10:08 AM on October 13, 2004
Similarly, there's no reasonable basis to suppose that it ever was. Especially given how many times we've been lied to by these amoral bastards.
posted by lodurr at 10:08 AM on October 13, 2004
Whatever happens AND if some terrorist attack happen right before the election one must remember that people of Madrid and Spain voted _the day after_ the catastrophic 3 March 2004 railroad bombinb.
Also it's worth remembering that in other countries, like Israel, terrorist attacks have influenced the outcome of elections
Labor Party candidates in Israel, throughout the 1980s and 1990s, always had to hold their breath that there would not be a big terrorist attack on the eve of an election. Because if there was, swing voters would usually move to the right and the Likud candidate would benefit. The Palestinian terrorists always ‘‘voted’’ Likud, not Labor.
posted by elpapacito at 3:27 PM on October 13, 2004
Also it's worth remembering that in other countries, like Israel, terrorist attacks have influenced the outcome of elections
Labor Party candidates in Israel, throughout the 1980s and 1990s, always had to hold their breath that there would not be a big terrorist attack on the eve of an election. Because if there was, swing voters would usually move to the right and the Likud candidate would benefit. The Palestinian terrorists always ‘‘voted’’ Likud, not Labor.
posted by elpapacito at 3:27 PM on October 13, 2004
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posted by homunculus at 5:45 PM on October 12, 2004