Edwin J. Feulner - The Heritage Foundation

November 23, 2004 6:23 PM

Wait... there's a NEW Mexico??! Old but funny.
posted by Pretty_Generic (48 comments total)

Funny until the author blames US ignorance on a liberal conspiracy. Then it gets funnier because he's either a crypto-fascist or a paranoid schizophrenic.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:34 PM on November 23, 2004

I vote for paranoid schizophrenic. A crypto-fascist would at least have an explanation to bridge the jump from "here are some examples of stupid people" to "the entire educational system is run by liberals, whose only goal is to spread ignorance."
posted by PlusDistance at 6:43 PM on November 23, 2004

Then it gets funnier because he's either a crypto-fascist or a paranoid schizophrenic.

He's from the Heritage Foundation....I'm gonna say both.

I love it when people write articles about how much the American educational system has declined. It's declined from what? When was the American educational system all that wonderful? My educated-through-the-50's-and-60's-parents sure as hell can't tell me what the area of a triangle is.
posted by MostHolyPorcine at 6:45 PM on November 23, 2004

To be fair, he doesn't blame it on a "liberal" conspiracy (though he was president of the Heritage Foundation), but rather a "politically correct" conspiracy...and if we've learnt anything in the last decade, it's that liberals certainly don't have a monopoly on "political correctness".

Then again, what "political correctness" has to do with geography, I'm not entirely sure. Don't mention the New Mexico!
posted by Jimbob at 6:45 PM on November 23, 2004

New Mexico Magazine runs a column each month called "One of Our Fifty is Missing" which is comprised of reader submitted stories of their experiences with people not knowing about New Mexico. Some of the anecdotes are quite funny.

When people ask where I grew up and I say "New Mexico", they frequently say "Oh! Arizona." It drives me insane. It's like they forget there's this big bit of land between Arizona and Texas. The worst was when I came to Virginia for College. I was in my first day of freshman level world history and a classmate asked what green cards looked like and how I learned to speak English with no accent. The professor just put his head on his desk.
posted by onhazier at 6:48 PM on November 23, 2004

The funny thing is... this is "confirmation" of many other nations' stereotypes of Americans. Canada is generally a pretty 'liberal' country, but this was a very popular segment on our version of the Daily Show, This Hour Has 22 Minutes, a few years ago.
posted by The Thnikkaman at 6:50 PM on November 23, 2004

Here comes The Thnikkaman!
posted by Pretty_Generic at 6:54 PM on November 23, 2004

Pearl Harbor isn't a "power." It's a little country in the middle of the Atlantic; everybody knows that!

*please* tell me that was just poorly-conceived irony!
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:15 PM on November 23, 2004

That was irony.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 7:16 PM on November 23, 2004

Canada is generally a pretty 'liberal' country, but this was a very popular segment on our version of the Daily Show, This Hour Has 22 Minutes, a few years ago.

yeh, likewise, the aussie political satire show CNNNN has a line of funny vox-pops on american streets, largely making fun of this preceived ignorance, eg CNNNN discovers Americans support war on Kyrgyzstan, 'wherever it may be'.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:23 PM on November 23, 2004

When was the American educational system all that wonderful?

I don't know if this is wonderful, but it certainly indicates a tougher breed of 8th grader in Kansas about 110 years ago (warning - ugly and corny web site): http://www.barefootsworld.net/1895finalexam.html

The author of this single article should have written three - one on New Mexico laughs, one on shitty US schools, and one on conspiracies (or not) in US schools. Too bad he mixes them up with no direct lines of thought.
posted by iwearredsocks at 7:36 PM on November 23, 2004

Funny, I always thought Americans were stupid largely as a result of Republican-spearheaded cuts in public education and unfunded mandates such as No Child Left Behind. Now I know better. Thanks, Heritage Foundation!

*The More You Know*
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:37 PM on November 23, 2004

I have conversations with relatives who are younger than that link, but, still, good stuff.

And while we're on the subject of geographical confusion, there's no such thing as being from "Carolina." There's South Carolina, and there's North Carolina, and we don't like each other very much.

In college, one of our schools had a mandatory course called "Map of the Modern World" or simply Map. It was, to put it mildly, exhaustive. Should be taught in every grade school.
posted by socratic at 7:56 PM on November 23, 2004

I remember this sadly humourous anecdote...but wait a minute -- I seem to recall that this occurred in 1996? No offense, P_G, but how on earth does this warrant a FPP?
posted by davidmsc at 7:58 PM on November 23, 2004

Advantage: Faint of Butt
posted by squirrel at 8:01 PM on November 23, 2004

iwearredsocks -- I'll see your "ugly and corny" and raise you "crashes mozilla". Nice.

Also, check out snopes.com on this topic. The Snopes article is pretty good, but I'll just stress the aspect that we think most of this "knowledge" is silly at this point: the "epochs of American History"? Come on.

And contrary to Snopes, which says that it doesn't test any foreign language, I think one of the problems with that test is that it requires all kinds of knowledge about asinine Latin concepts like verb declension and noun case, which are still conceptually relevant to English, though in many instances the same word is used for each declension or case... I'm not outraged at our schools for failing to teach people about these technicalities; as long as they can communicate their thoughts in speech and writing, that's fine with me.
posted by rkent at 8:03 PM on November 23, 2004

Funny until the author blames US ignorance on a liberal conspiracy.

Seems pretty simple. The education system has declined since the Sixties. Liberals have had control of the education system since the Sixties. Liberals believe in social equality. Therefore, to promote social equality, liberals are sabotaging the schools.

With all those AP classes and accelerated math programs.

Grade inflation is out of control, sure. But that seems more a function of local political pressure plus low funding. Things teachers generally fight against, rather then fight for.
posted by catachresoid at 8:16 PM on November 23, 2004

My personal theory on why no one knows the location of New Mexico has to do with where most people get their knowledge of U.S. geography -- the national weather map on the Weather Channel or the local news.

New Mexico is always behind where the weather person is standing, whether they're talking about the East Coast or the West Coast. It may sound silly, but the next time you watch the weather on your local news take a look at where the local weather guy/gal is, and I bet I'm right.
posted by QuestionableSwami at 8:23 PM on November 23, 2004

rkent, my red socks match my face at this moment. . .how did i not think to check snopes, or at least to think of a few of snopes' rebuttals with my own little brain?
{considers self admonished}
ps. does fine in firefox!
posted by iwearredsocks at 8:30 PM on November 23, 2004

I feel better about Americans not being able to find Canada on a map, after discovering that many of them weren't even aware they had a state called "New Mexico". Wow.

I might not be able to name all fifty states off the top of my head (and I've failed to get beyond about forty one or forty two), but you could name me any random state, and I'd be able to tell you if it was real and just about where to find it on a map.

(And that Talking to Americans stuff, if questionable, is always hilarious. Mocking America is a bizarre part of Canadian pop culture.)
posted by Kleptophoria! at 8:40 PM on November 23, 2004

davidmsc: you'll hate this post even more, it came from 868AD.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 8:58 PM on November 23, 2004

Just to add some perspective on the Canadian and Australian funning on us, similar idiot-on-the-street setups have provided the underpinnings for a perennial segment on The Tonight Show called Jay Walking, and an entire syndicated game show called Street Smarts. At some level these must succeed because the viewer is able to say Boy are these people dumb (to be sure, such coding is endemic and probably key to "smart" shows like Jeopardy and Who Wants to be a Millionaire?).

My story along these lines is the waitress in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, who said after finding out where we were driving from, "Wisconsin? Isn't that up north somewhere?"
posted by dhartung at 8:58 PM on November 23, 2004

Americans ages 18 to 24 came in next to last among nine countries in the National Geographic-Roper 2002 Global Geographic Literacy Survey, which quizzed more than 3,000 young adults in Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden, and the United States.
posted by dawdle at 9:17 PM on November 23, 2004

then again even the president only went to Rome and Mexico before being elected.

and it's only east coast liberals who go backapcking through europe before college.
posted by dawdle at 9:18 PM on November 23, 2004

I don't so much encounter people that don't know that NM is a state or where it is as much I find they think it's one big Sonoran desert filled with saguero cacti. When my ex-wife and I flew from Albuquerque to Toronto the first Christmas we were married, to be with her family, we were greeted the whole time by the question: "Bet it's really cold for ya, huh?" Our response: "Well, when we left Albuqerque it was a blizzard and about ten degrees F colder than it is here. So, it's toasty." Worse, we spent a couple of years living in the mountains above Santa Fe at about 8200 feet, in a rinky-dink 50s era trailer home. Lots of snow both those winters and, also, it was freaking cold in that trailer. My ex was colder there than she was was a little girl in Saskatoon. Not that it was colder, mind you, Saskatoon is like the arctic hell or something. Oh, and she didn't know how to drive on snow till she moved here. 'Course that's because in TO and the like the roads are usually all kept clean and salted and stuff. Not so much so here.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:56 PM on November 23, 2004

I just got a jolt- I was talking to my bro-in-law about the ultimate road trip -drive to Alaska. My *college-educated*, *teacher's-certificate-having* sister asked, isn't that an island?
posted by notsnot at 10:08 PM on November 23, 2004

Well, maybe they were thinking of Juneau.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:25 PM on November 23, 2004

An acquaintance of the family is a rich Mercedes SLK-owning estate agent living on the south coast of Spain. When we told him we were going from there to Portugal, he asked us what kind of boat we were going to use to get there. When told it wasn't across the sea, he accepted the new information calmly and with mild interest.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 10:44 PM on November 23, 2004

youknow if y'all made new names instead of putting new in front all this could be avoided. ;)
posted by dabitch at 12:20 AM on November 24, 2004

Seemed appropriate...
Smithers: Sir... I need some time off. As you know, I've been writing a musical about the Malibu Stacey doll.
Burns: And you want me to call Sophie Tucker for you - yes, I know.
Smithers: Actually, sir, we've been booked into a small theatre in New Mexico.
Burns: Whoa, slow down. There's a new Mexico?
Smithers: Yes, I want to go there and make my dream come true.
Burns: A show about a doll? Why not write a musical about the common cat? Or the king of Siam?
posted by Sangermaine at 2:25 AM on November 24, 2004

MostHolyPorcine, I was educated in Canada in the 50s and I know that the area of a triangle is Bermuda. Or near Bermuda.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:37 AM on November 24, 2004

7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?

Simple: Barry Morse, who played Prof. Victor Bergman in Space 1999; overenthusiastic and somewhat neurotic popular singer; Fulton MacKay, comedy actor, best known for playing the stern warder in Porridge; singer with Erasure; famous American bullet-stopper; ex-husband of Madonna; guitarist with Yes.

Do I win anything?
posted by Grangousier at 2:52 AM on November 24, 2004

I have been on the East Coast for 11 years now, coming from the Midwest. I am convinced people in New England don't know anything exists past the Hudson River. You get to the Hudson, and past that is California "I think."
Bright, really, really bright people have pondered geography with me and they get to the Hudson and begin to look perplexed.

It's fascinating and frustrating to take part.
posted by fluffycreature at 4:53 AM on November 24, 2004

What I want to know is: Who should District of Columbia residents call to get tickets to the Olympics? Atlanta -- or Bogota?

Well, as the name of the country is Colombia, not Columbia, I wonder if he's being falling prey to the same kind of ingnorance he's deriding? Or is he being metaironic?
posted by signal at 6:04 AM on November 24, 2004

As a South Arfican in the US I get similar comments about the location of South Africa. "What country in South Africa?" is a common follow-up question. And then the confusion that I'm white, what do these people think Apartheid was all about if there were no whites?
posted by brolloks at 7:55 AM on November 24, 2004

then again even the president only went to Rome and Mexico before being elected.
What is the joke or meme here? This is the third time I've read this in about a week on the site. Just this week while still in his first term he was in Chile. Also Iraq...
Besides not knowing when a Presidential term ends, what's up.
posted by thomcatspike at 8:51 AM on November 24, 2004

I find it funny folks think Disneyland is in LA.
posted by thomcatspike at 8:53 AM on November 24, 2004

My story along these lines is the waitress in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, who said after finding out where we were driving from, "Wisconsin? Isn't that up north somewhere?"

That's because Murfreesboro is a shit-hole nowhere that (mistakenly) considers itself "somewhere".

Even so, I dated half the college-aged population when I was an undergrad.
posted by Human Stain at 9:14 AM on November 24, 2004

brolloks: Apartheid was a thinly-disguised marketing ploy used to sell "Aid" albums, everybody knows that. I think mandelas were involved (although why anyone would fight about dreamcatchers is beyond me...)

fluffycreature: Sadly, I have to agree. I was born & raised in New England, moved to Washington (state) about 7 years ago. It's amazing what you find on the road trip in between.
posted by FormlessOne at 9:31 AM on November 24, 2004

What is the joke or meme here? This is the third time I've read this in about a week on the site. Just this week while still in his first term he was in Chile. Also Iraq...

That's a reference to his first "election," thomcatspike. Prior to becoming president for the first time, Bush had only visited Rome and Mexico.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:38 AM on November 24, 2004

No he visited Iraq, England and Russia from memory and think he is in China now which will all be visits in his first term. Bet there are other countries too.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:48 AM on November 24, 2004

Ok, I guess I've missed the post's idea, we don't know our
geography.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:51 AM on November 24, 2004

scratch China (misread my search)
posted by thomcatspike at 9:56 AM on November 24, 2004

That's before he became president, thomcatspike. Before the year 2000, Bush had only visited Rome and Mexico. Since his appointment, his record has improved slightly.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:58 AM on November 24, 2004

first "election," my bad
Google says: "George W. Bush had only visited Mexico, Israel and China before becoming president,
posted by thomcatspike at 10:05 AM on November 24, 2004

A friend of mine moved from Montana to Baltimore and went to the DMV to get a Maryland drivers license. Upon presenting his Montana license, he got the question "What's Montana?" (it may have even been "What's a Montana"). Probably the start of a long period of regret on his part.
posted by 445supermag at 10:29 AM on November 24, 2004

I blame Al Roker, and before him, Willard Scott. Why? Because every morning the two guys stand in front of New Mexico to talk about Texas and the east coast, then whirl around and point to California and the left coast. They completely cover New Mexico.

Fuckers. Don't they know Doogie Howser was born there?
posted by WolfDaddy at 12:34 PM on November 24, 2004

the area of a triangle is

Lots of people go for the (1/2)(base)(height) formula but I personally like Heron's Formula:

where


This is because this formulation more clearly expresses the area in terms of a generalised determinant that can be extended into n dimensions cleanly.
posted by meehawl at 12:59 PM on November 24, 2004