No Fucking Tenure For You!
December 16, 2004 10:11 AM Subscribe
Professor Stephen Roberds, Southern Utah University's controversial Professor of the Year 2003-2004, you're fucking fired.
Huh. Utah's a different world, I guess; professors here (UPenn) say "fuck" all the time, in undergraduate and graduate courses. Well, maybe not all the time, but it's certainly not unheard of. It wouldn't be cause for even a moment's comment.
posted by dmd at 10:18 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by dmd at 10:18 AM on December 16, 2004
this is so sad that it's almost funny. hopefully, he'll be hired soon by a less-idiotic university
posted by matteo at 10:26 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by matteo at 10:26 AM on December 16, 2004
What DMD said. At Brown and at Rutgers, it's not unusual at all for professors to say "fuck." It's not an every day thing, but it's not really noteworthy either. But I guess this is the Eastern seaboard and all.
posted by rafter at 10:28 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by rafter at 10:28 AM on December 16, 2004
I can't believe he said fuck. He must watch television or something. How did he get his hands on a TV signal in Utah? He must subscribe to satellite.
posted by fleener at 10:29 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by fleener at 10:29 AM on December 16, 2004
I'm about to take up a lecturer position and the idea of being sacked for swearing is frankly crazy - I might as well not even pack my bags.
posted by biffa at 10:29 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by biffa at 10:29 AM on December 16, 2004
...and I've heard of professors fucking students and not getting fired. Am I right?!
posted by mic stand at 10:30 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by mic stand at 10:30 AM on December 16, 2004
Greg Allred, a 32-year-old nontraditional student,
Is this, I'm guessing, code for "Not Mormon"?
posted by Turtles all the way down at 10:31 AM on December 16, 2004
Is this, I'm guessing, code for "Not Mormon"?
posted by Turtles all the way down at 10:31 AM on December 16, 2004
It sounds like college wanted Stephen Roberds gone and looked for any small excuse to facilitate his removal. As excuses go though, this is pretty pathetic. The very idea that the kids at the college haven't heard, let alone use 'fuck' on a daily basis (Or do for that matter!) is absurd.
I would also like to note with mild amusement that 'fuck' is apparently a misspelled word as far as Metafilter's built-in checker is concerned. No, I did not mean duck, thank you.
posted by Vaska at 10:32 AM on December 16, 2004
I would also like to note with mild amusement that 'fuck' is apparently a misspelled word as far as Metafilter's built-in checker is concerned. No, I did not mean duck, thank you.
posted by Vaska at 10:32 AM on December 16, 2004
Money quote: Roberds referred to a student as “a stupid, ignorant, hate-monger” during a club-sponsored demonstration against gay marriage.
Southern Utah University's reaction would have been WAY different if it was this: "Roberds referred to a student as “a stupid, ignorant, hate-monger” during a club-sponsored demonstration against George W. Bush's Iraq War OR the Mormon Church OR EVEN eating meat."
It's funny (but not ha ha funny) how it is getting so easy for the right to spout completely reprehensible claims about any number of topics (nuke the A-Rabs, fur instance) -- but liberals just better not get all uppity.
I suppose we need to learn our place. Dr. Roberd's place clearly isn't at SUU.
posted by mooncrow at 10:33 AM on December 16, 2004
Southern Utah University's reaction would have been WAY different if it was this: "Roberds referred to a student as “a stupid, ignorant, hate-monger” during a club-sponsored demonstration against George W. Bush's Iraq War OR the Mormon Church OR EVEN eating meat."
It's funny (but not ha ha funny) how it is getting so easy for the right to spout completely reprehensible claims about any number of topics (nuke the A-Rabs, fur instance) -- but liberals just better not get all uppity.
I suppose we need to learn our place. Dr. Roberd's place clearly isn't at SUU.
posted by mooncrow at 10:33 AM on December 16, 2004
At Brown and at Rutgers...
It also isn't unusual for professors at Notre Dame to curse. I even had a theology professor who cursed just about every class.
posted by sciurus at 10:34 AM on December 16, 2004
It also isn't unusual for professors at Notre Dame to curse. I even had a theology professor who cursed just about every class.
posted by sciurus at 10:34 AM on December 16, 2004
Nah, that's code for "not a 19 year old crybaby who's never been in the real world or heard naughty language."
I wonder how student at SUU discuss the First Amendment. Even my grandfatherly conservative Con Law prof had to drop the f-bomb when covering Cohen v. California.
posted by amber_dale at 10:36 AM on December 16, 2004
I wonder how student at SUU discuss the First Amendment. Even my grandfatherly conservative Con Law prof had to drop the f-bomb when covering Cohen v. California.
posted by amber_dale at 10:36 AM on December 16, 2004
Okay, it's OK to say "fuck" in the Senate of the United States, but not in a university classroom?
Wake me when it's over, people.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:42 AM on December 16, 2004
Wake me when it's over, people.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:42 AM on December 16, 2004
Who the fuck cares? It's Utah.
Seriously, I am sick to death of this shit. You people live in the world. Wouldn't it be easier to go buy a pair of shoes than try to pave the entire globe in soft, soft leather?
You go right on building your bridge to the eleventh century. My flight for Seoul is boarding.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:42 AM on December 16, 2004
Seriously, I am sick to death of this shit. You people live in the world. Wouldn't it be easier to go buy a pair of shoes than try to pave the entire globe in soft, soft leather?
You go right on building your bridge to the eleventh century. My flight for Seoul is boarding.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:42 AM on December 16, 2004
Good god, they'd have never survived my first comp professor at the community college I went to while in high school. Professor Harcharik was old enough that he'd been my mother's comp professor, and he said "fuck" multiple times per class period.
He also had a habit of writing things like "My cat writes better than this" on student essays.
Fuck he was awesome.
posted by u.n. owen at 10:44 AM on December 16, 2004
He also had a habit of writing things like "My cat writes better than this" on student essays.
Fuck he was awesome.
posted by u.n. owen at 10:44 AM on December 16, 2004
As an aside, can someone explain in detail what tenure is, exactly? I always see it as some mystical attainment for profs and more or less invincibility, but I don't understand how it's the case.
posted by xmutex at 10:44 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by xmutex at 10:44 AM on December 16, 2004
Any other professors lose their jobs this week, or was he the only one?
posted by dash_slot- at 10:46 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by dash_slot- at 10:46 AM on December 16, 2004
Well, now that SUU has fired a shot over the bow of intellectual freedom, their ability to recruit curious, engaging, quality professors across a range of disciplines has been materially damaged.
Roberds, on the other hand, is likely to land at the New School or Berkeley, some place more prestigious that will be proud to add another rabble rouser to their faculty. Fuck yeah!
posted by junkbox at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
Roberds, on the other hand, is likely to land at the New School or Berkeley, some place more prestigious that will be proud to add another rabble rouser to their faculty. Fuck yeah!
posted by junkbox at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
It sounds like college wanted Stephen Roberds gone
It's not unheard of for University Administrations to get rid of "unpleasantries" regardless of whatever bad press may result.
posted by Human Stain at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
It's not unheard of for University Administrations to get rid of "unpleasantries" regardless of whatever bad press may result.
posted by Human Stain at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
Professors are typically hired at institutions on probation -- they have a period (specified in their contract) during which they are allowed to "set up shop" to teach, conduct research, publish papers (whatever their discipline demands). At the end of that period, they go through a tenure-seeking process which is quite like applying for the job in the first place -- they seek letters of recommendation, they are evaluated using teaching evaluations, number of publications, etc.
At that time, they either are hired on fully as Associate Professors (the nomenclature varies) with tenure or (usually) are fired. Once they are tenured, they essentially can't be fired (other than for violating their contract or university regulations). This is in place to allow academics to have academic freedom and pursue knowledge without pressure from current political or administrative figures.
posted by trey at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
At that time, they either are hired on fully as Associate Professors (the nomenclature varies) with tenure or (usually) are fired. Once they are tenured, they essentially can't be fired (other than for violating their contract or university regulations). This is in place to allow academics to have academic freedom and pursue knowledge without pressure from current political or administrative figures.
posted by trey at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
It's funny (but not ha ha funny) how it is getting so easy for the right to spout completely reprehensible claims about any number of topics (nuke the A-Rabs, fur instance) -- but liberals just better not get all uppity.
You remind me of me.
And I agree.
Would I get into trouble if I said we need to kill all them damn diaper-head hajis?
Not likely.
First the right dehumanized the "liberal."
Then they can feel justified attacking those lesser ones.
Are liberals the n*gg*r to the world now?
At least women are getting a short break if that's true. :-)
posted by nofundy at 10:50 AM on December 16, 2004
You remind me of me.
And I agree.
Would I get into trouble if I said we need to kill all them damn diaper-head hajis?
Not likely.
First the right dehumanized the "liberal."
Then they can feel justified attacking those lesser ones.
Are liberals the n*gg*r to the world now?
At least women are getting a short break if that's true. :-)
posted by nofundy at 10:50 AM on December 16, 2004
trey: I'd amend your lucid decription of tenure to include, in scientific fields, the more recent concept of "grant tenure": the university will guarantee your employment as long as you bring in the amount of grant money necessary to fund a decent level of research. This device protects the university from deadwood that hand around, doing nothing, once they've achieved tenure. Which, given my experience in numerous departments in multiple universities in the U.S and Canada, is sorely needed.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 10:55 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Turtles all the way down at 10:55 AM on December 16, 2004
Are liberals the n*gg*r to the world now?
Only in your persecution-complex spawned fantasies.
posted by jonmc at 10:55 AM on December 16, 2004
Only in your persecution-complex spawned fantasies.
posted by jonmc at 10:55 AM on December 16, 2004
"Bruce Barker, dean of the College of Education, said he has never called in students to help evaluate professors who are up for tenure."
I mean, it's not like the students have anything to gain or lose or any unique perspective to share in/on the matter....
posted by incongruity at 10:56 AM on December 16, 2004
I mean, it's not like the students have anything to gain or lose or any unique perspective to share in/on the matter....
posted by incongruity at 10:56 AM on December 16, 2004
Well, now that SUU has fired a shot over the bow of intellectual freedom, their ability to recruit curious, engaging, quality professors across a range of disciplines has been materially damaged.
It may be that they do NOT want curious, engaging, quality professors, especially poly sci ones.
I bet Lynne Cheney and Joe Lieberman are doing the dance of joy right now.
To say nothing of Mr. FrontPageMagazine himself (I can't bring myself to type his name.)
Another damn liberal gone from the halls of academia! WooHoo!
And on the halls of the Senate "fuck" comment, the acronym is IOKIYAR (its OK if you're a republican.)
posted by nofundy at 10:57 AM on December 16, 2004
It may be that they do NOT want curious, engaging, quality professors, especially poly sci ones.
I bet Lynne Cheney and Joe Lieberman are doing the dance of joy right now.
To say nothing of Mr. FrontPageMagazine himself (I can't bring myself to type his name.)
Another damn liberal gone from the halls of academia! WooHoo!
And on the halls of the Senate "fuck" comment, the acronym is IOKIYAR (its OK if you're a republican.)
posted by nofundy at 10:57 AM on December 16, 2004
Making nofundy lose it and lash out like a spoiled child is so easy. and fun.
posted by jonmc at 11:00 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by jonmc at 11:00 AM on December 16, 2004
yup. professor found with deep-running feelings on issue.
summarily dispensed with, so as to round out the mind-popping tedium of normal curriculum, as per accordance with Utah law.
I hope he doesn't mind the shift from fly-over state to Mega-city 1 or 2...
posted by Busithoth at 11:03 AM on December 16, 2004
summarily dispensed with, so as to round out the mind-popping tedium of normal curriculum, as per accordance with Utah law.
I hope he doesn't mind the shift from fly-over state to Mega-city 1 or 2...
posted by Busithoth at 11:03 AM on December 16, 2004
Good. An opening in my field. I will apply for a job there now. Thanks.
posted by Postroad at 11:10 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Postroad at 11:10 AM on December 16, 2004
well, that helps me. helps me narrow down my list of places to apply for jobs at, that is. jeez. i'm not a potty mouth in the classroom, but i don't think i'd be able to not swear here and there. and for the record: "my cat writes better than this"? i am so going to have to remember to use that some time...
posted by caution live frogs at 11:14 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by caution live frogs at 11:14 AM on December 16, 2004
Turtles all the way down:
> Greg Allred, a 32-year-old nontraditional student,
>>Is this, I'm guessing, code for "Not Mormon"?
Naw, it's just higher-ed speak for a student who isn't fresh out of high school. Generally, it's a term you use for undergrads who are married and/or over 25. So, the journalist has a taste for redundancy.
"If you don't care for obscenity, you don't care for the truth" --Tim O'Brien
posted by wheat at 11:16 AM on December 16, 2004
> Greg Allred, a 32-year-old nontraditional student,
>>Is this, I'm guessing, code for "Not Mormon"?
Naw, it's just higher-ed speak for a student who isn't fresh out of high school. Generally, it's a term you use for undergrads who are married and/or over 25. So, the journalist has a taste for redundancy.
"If you don't care for obscenity, you don't care for the truth" --Tim O'Brien
posted by wheat at 11:16 AM on December 16, 2004
In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.
And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.
"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.
posted by rushmc at 11:22 AM on December 16, 2004
And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.
"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.
posted by rushmc at 11:22 AM on December 16, 2004
"If you don't care for obscenity, you don't care for the truth" --Tim O'Brien
It is, of course, equally true that obsessing over obscenity keeps you equally in error and distant from truth.
posted by rushmc at 11:24 AM on December 16, 2004
It is, of course, equally true that obsessing over obscenity keeps you equally in error and distant from truth.
posted by rushmc at 11:24 AM on December 16, 2004
You people live in the world. Wouldn't it be easier to go buy a pair of shoes than try to pave the entire globe in soft, soft leather?
adamgreenfield: you are my new intellectual hero.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:27 AM on December 16, 2004
adamgreenfield: you are my new intellectual hero.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:27 AM on December 16, 2004
What crap. When I was in grad school, one of my professors told not one but two sheep fucking jokes to our class.
posted by absalom at 11:29 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by absalom at 11:29 AM on December 16, 2004
I had a professor who told us the first day of class at 9:30 am "I am going to fuck you in the heart." He was one of the best professors I ever had. I'm not sure when the idea that all teachers should be liked by everyone became a necessary component of education-particularly higher level education, but I miss the days when teachers could yell and threaten and make snarky remarks about our ability to learn.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:29 AM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
posted by miss-lapin at 11:29 AM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
Making nofundy lose it and lash out like a spoiled child is so easy. and fun.
It's also called "trolling".
posted by jpoulos at 11:32 AM on December 16, 2004
It's also called "trolling".
posted by jpoulos at 11:32 AM on December 16, 2004
Good. An opening in my field. I will apply for a job there now. Thanks.
posted by Postroad at 2:10 PM EST on December 16
Don't let 'em see your blog.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:35 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Postroad at 2:10 PM EST on December 16
Don't let 'em see your blog.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:35 AM on December 16, 2004
kudos, jonmc. i didn't realize people on the internets still got a thrill out of trolling, but whatever gets you through ...
Are liberals the n*gg*r to the world now?
liberals/anti-capitalists (might as well make them the same thing) definitely are a downtrodden species, but i think women still unfortunately hold top "honors."
as far as ethnic slurs go, i'd say the wars against liberals and jews are more similar than the wars against african americans and poor people. the first seems religious; the second, economical, though i guess you can't keep religion and economics from fucking with each other.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:35 AM on December 16, 2004
Are liberals the n*gg*r to the world now?
liberals/anti-capitalists (might as well make them the same thing) definitely are a downtrodden species, but i think women still unfortunately hold top "honors."
as far as ethnic slurs go, i'd say the wars against liberals and jews are more similar than the wars against african americans and poor people. the first seems religious; the second, economical, though i guess you can't keep religion and economics from fucking with each other.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:35 AM on December 16, 2004
Fuck, that fucking sucks. Man, I bet the school administrators panties are like eight sizes too small.
I guess the students are meant to be sheltered until they graduate and then they can learn all the swears they want?
posted by fenriq at 11:36 AM on December 16, 2004
I guess the students are meant to be sheltered until they graduate and then they can learn all the swears they want?
posted by fenriq at 11:36 AM on December 16, 2004
"Another damn liberal gone from the halls of academia! WooHoo!"
1 down, 99,999 to go.
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:40 AM on December 16, 2004
1 down, 99,999 to go.
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:40 AM on December 16, 2004
It's also called "trolling".
Or could it be that our protest-warrior nofundy is just incredibly thin skinned? After all, my initial comment was nothing more than an retort to his rhetorical question (which he dosen't want an answer to, merely affirmation of his own opinions). He's the one who requires such a minimmum of provocation to go off on someone. Maybe he needs to "grow a thicker skin," as the kids say.
posted by jonmc at 11:43 AM on December 16, 2004
Or could it be that our protest-warrior nofundy is just incredibly thin skinned? After all, my initial comment was nothing more than an retort to his rhetorical question (which he dosen't want an answer to, merely affirmation of his own opinions). He's the one who requires such a minimmum of provocation to go off on someone. Maybe he needs to "grow a thicker skin," as the kids say.
posted by jonmc at 11:43 AM on December 16, 2004
Aw fudge....
posted by asianmack at 12:07 PM MST on December 16
In Utah, it's "Aw, fetch."
posted by effwerd at 11:52 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by asianmack at 12:07 PM MST on December 16
In Utah, it's "Aw, fetch."
posted by effwerd at 11:52 AM on December 16, 2004
rushmc:
> It is, of course, equally true that obsessing over obscenity
> keeps you equally in error and distant from truth.
Sure, but the only party that seems obsessed with it in the context of this thread is the administration at Southern Utah U.
posted by wheat at 11:58 AM on December 16, 2004
> It is, of course, equally true that obsessing over obscenity
> keeps you equally in error and distant from truth.
Sure, but the only party that seems obsessed with it in the context of this thread is the administration at Southern Utah U.
posted by wheat at 11:58 AM on December 16, 2004
I thought that fuck had pretty much reached the point of common acceptance now. It certainly doesn't have the awesome swearituditiness of maybe 10-15 years ago. If you are really going to offend someone nowadays you have to bring out the c word*. Even motherfucker is ten-a-penny.
When we have no more rude words left what will we do? Start making new ones or taking other words and applying the rudeness to them?
*even this can be harmlessly deflected with a simple "you are what you eat" assuming you are a friend of the kitty.
posted by longbaugh at 12:00 PM on December 16, 2004
When we have no more rude words left what will we do? Start making new ones or taking other words and applying the rudeness to them?
*even this can be harmlessly deflected with a simple "you are what you eat" assuming you are a friend of the kitty.
posted by longbaugh at 12:00 PM on December 16, 2004
I remember being in a class in college during my third year and a professor was lecturing about something and at the end he said something like "Is that fair? Fuck no!" and I remember being totally surprised, but happy that it was no big deal to anyone. He was the best lecturer I had in college and a student favorite. It was the only time he ever said it, but for some silly reason I left class that day feeling like I really was in college for the first time, as the kid gloves seemed to be off after 15 years of safe public school education.
I'm sure the guy will get hired somewhere else, but I can't believe the faculty didn't go to bat for the guy and left it up to the administration to decide his final fate.
posted by mathowie at 12:00 PM on December 16, 2004
I'm sure the guy will get hired somewhere else, but I can't believe the faculty didn't go to bat for the guy and left it up to the administration to decide his final fate.
posted by mathowie at 12:00 PM on December 16, 2004
Here's another story, this time from Oklahoma.
from the story:
"The latest being that his office has been taken away from him and he has been given a place of prominence in the school’s basement in it’s* stead."
*its; sentence fragment
fuck, my cat writes better than that.
posted by blendor at 12:16 PM on December 16, 2004
from the story:
"The latest being that his office has been taken away from him and he has been given a place of prominence in the school’s basement in it’s* stead."
*its; sentence fragment
fuck, my cat writes better than that.
posted by blendor at 12:16 PM on December 16, 2004
*even this can be harmlessly deflected with a simple "you are what you eat" assuming you are a friend of the kitty.
except when "you are what you eat" is followed by the "so, you're an asshole?" retort.
posted by blendor at 12:18 PM on December 16, 2004
except when "you are what you eat" is followed by the "so, you're an asshole?" retort.
posted by blendor at 12:18 PM on December 16, 2004
Once they are tenured, they essentially can't be fired (other than for violating their contract or university regulations)
It's more that you can't be fired except for cause. If they want to fire you, it's up to them to show that you're not doing your job in one way or another. Also they can just close down your department, etc. It varies depending on your contract. It's not some magical status; it's essentially equivalent to being a civil servant.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:36 PM on December 16, 2004
It's more that you can't be fired except for cause. If they want to fire you, it's up to them to show that you're not doing your job in one way or another. Also they can just close down your department, etc. It varies depending on your contract. It's not some magical status; it's essentially equivalent to being a civil servant.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:36 PM on December 16, 2004
Or could it be that our protest-warrior nofundy is just incredibly thin skinned?
This has nothing to do with nofundy's reaction. You starting slinging shit in gleeful effort to provoke him. That's trolling (or, technically, flamebaiting), and you should know better.
posted by jpoulos at 12:49 PM on December 16, 2004
This has nothing to do with nofundy's reaction. You starting slinging shit in gleeful effort to provoke him. That's trolling (or, technically, flamebaiting), and you should know better.
posted by jpoulos at 12:49 PM on December 16, 2004
Berkeley may not be far behind. Also in the news: The University of California at Berkeley has denied tenure to Ignacio H. Chapela, an assistant professor of ecology and an outspoken critic of the university's ties to the biotechnology industry.
posted by derangedlarid at 12:55 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by derangedlarid at 12:55 PM on December 16, 2004
Actually, I responded to to the "liberal as n*gg*r"* (his words) conciet he presented. He responded with a tossed of "bite me" rather than try to argue his point. I didn't flamebait him, I don't need to. He flamebaits himself, with his bad cliche-ridden writing and oversensitivity.
As for "gleeful," sure, I laugh when his responses reveal him for what he is, mainly since it makes people less inclined to take him seriously.
*mainly since to compare what liberals go through in this country to the suffering of black people both historically and currently is hubris of the worst kind.
posted by jonmc at 12:56 PM on December 16, 2004
As for "gleeful," sure, I laugh when his responses reveal him for what he is, mainly since it makes people less inclined to take him seriously.
*mainly since to compare what liberals go through in this country to the suffering of black people both historically and currently is hubris of the worst kind.
posted by jonmc at 12:56 PM on December 16, 2004
Are liberals the n*gg*r to the world now?
liberals/anti-capitalists (might as well make them the same thing) definitely are a downtrodden species, but i think women still unfortunately hold top "honors."
Have the gays already been forgotten?
Everything is obviously working to plan.
posted by Human Stain at 1:06 PM on December 16, 2004
liberals/anti-capitalists (might as well make them the same thing) definitely are a downtrodden species, but i think women still unfortunately hold top "honors."
Have the gays already been forgotten?
Everything is obviously working to plan.
posted by Human Stain at 1:06 PM on December 16, 2004
I thought that fuck had pretty much reached the point of common acceptance now.
This is analogous to the error of assuming that most Americans across the land have good, sensible liberal values and that Kerry will therefore win the presidency in a landslide.
posted by rushmc at 1:11 PM on December 16, 2004
This is analogous to the error of assuming that most Americans across the land have good, sensible liberal values and that Kerry will therefore win the presidency in a landslide.
posted by rushmc at 1:11 PM on December 16, 2004
Actually, I responded to to the "liberal as n*gg*r"* (his words) conciet [sic] he presented.
you responded: "Only in your persecution-complex spawned fantasies."
your, i think, is the key part of the troll, because it specifically implies that nofundy is a deranged person with no credibility (which is not true, imo). if you had left out the "your," it would have still smelled trollish, but wouldn't have been so obvious.
it is also impossible to exactly discern motive, but a quick read (especially paired with your resultant "it's so fun" comment) indicates that your intention was more to get a rise out of nofundy than to posit an honest reply to his question.
I laugh when his responses reveal him for what he is, mainly since it makes people less inclined to take him seriously.
again, possibly showing the intent of your original comment, which was to discredit nofundy personally, rather than objectively address his question.
my3c that are probably better off in metatalk or better left in my head ...
posted by mrgrimm at 1:12 PM on December 16, 2004
you responded: "Only in your persecution-complex spawned fantasies."
your, i think, is the key part of the troll, because it specifically implies that nofundy is a deranged person with no credibility (which is not true, imo). if you had left out the "your," it would have still smelled trollish, but wouldn't have been so obvious.
it is also impossible to exactly discern motive, but a quick read (especially paired with your resultant "it's so fun" comment) indicates that your intention was more to get a rise out of nofundy than to posit an honest reply to his question.
I laugh when his responses reveal him for what he is, mainly since it makes people less inclined to take him seriously.
again, possibly showing the intent of your original comment, which was to discredit nofundy personally, rather than objectively address his question.
my3c that are probably better off in metatalk or better left in my head ...
posted by mrgrimm at 1:12 PM on December 16, 2004
I mean, it's not like the students have anything to gain or lose or any unique perspective to share in/on the matter....
incongruity, the article said that student evaluations are used in tenure reviews. Student opinion is certainly one of the significant factors considered. What they don't do is call individual students into their offices to ask questions. That'd be totally impractical, and would yield inaccurate results.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 1:15 PM on December 16, 2004
incongruity, the article said that student evaluations are used in tenure reviews. Student opinion is certainly one of the significant factors considered. What they don't do is call individual students into their offices to ask questions. That'd be totally impractical, and would yield inaccurate results.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 1:15 PM on December 16, 2004
Dr. Evans is correct, furthermore an interrogation which takes place in an administrator's office with leading questions is much more intimidating (and therefore likely to get the admin's desired response) than the types of bland questions that usually appear on student evals. If an administrator had to resort to that type of behavior to elicit a negative response, it looks pretty much like the "witch hunt" described.
posted by miss-lapin at 1:39 PM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
posted by miss-lapin at 1:39 PM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
The year was 1964. I, a junior in high school, tagging along with my University of Michigan freshman sister to her classes.
The young woman teaching this english class (grad. assist.) had a shirt up to mid thigh. I was in the front row, she sat right in front of me on her desk at eye level. By this time the shirt was almost at hip level. Freedom was intoxicating in those days. (By the way, this guy must be cousin, because we share this not common last name.)
posted by JohnR at 1:39 PM on December 16, 2004
The young woman teaching this english class (grad. assist.) had a shirt up to mid thigh. I was in the front row, she sat right in front of me on her desk at eye level. By this time the shirt was almost at hip level. Freedom was intoxicating in those days. (By the way, this guy must be cousin, because we share this not common last name.)
posted by JohnR at 1:39 PM on December 16, 2004
One student says the professor "was terminated because he colored outside the line." Is that an indication of the type of textbooks they use at SUU?
posted by LeLiLo at 2:53 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by LeLiLo at 2:53 PM on December 16, 2004
dmd - Have you taken any classes with Stephen Dunning in the Religion dep't?
posted by Alt F4 at 3:02 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by Alt F4 at 3:02 PM on December 16, 2004
So I guess my favorite phrase (Shit Fuckin Momma) would not be appropriate in the state of Utah?
There is a basic problem with firing all the liberals from the Sacred Halls of Ivy. Liberals are thinkers. That is what it means to be "liberal" -- to embrace the unconventional, to keep an open mind, to think for oneself. If the administration continues to purge the radical thinkers, then pretty soon the school will end up like Bob Jones University, a joke. The only students who want to attend such a University are those too frightened to be challenged.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on December 16, 2004
There is a basic problem with firing all the liberals from the Sacred Halls of Ivy. Liberals are thinkers. That is what it means to be "liberal" -- to embrace the unconventional, to keep an open mind, to think for oneself. If the administration continues to purge the radical thinkers, then pretty soon the school will end up like Bob Jones University, a joke. The only students who want to attend such a University are those too frightened to be challenged.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on December 16, 2004
Only in your persecution-complex spawned fantasies.
Thus saith Mr. Hair Up A Gnat's Ass nofundy Stalker Boy.
posted by y2karl at 4:16 PM on December 16, 2004
Thus saith Mr. Hair Up A Gnat's Ass nofundy Stalker Boy.
posted by y2karl at 4:16 PM on December 16, 2004
I think people who use profanity and obscenities to the point where they think they're "just words" are missing out on a great linguistic tool. Profanity and obscenity should mean something...how do you intensify a statement if the strongest intensifiers in the language are words that you use as part of everyday language? Isn't that completely missing the point?
I don't use profanity or obscenities in my everyday speech; in fact, it's very, very rare to hear me curse at all. But when I do, the people around me know that I mean what I'm saying and that I have strong feelings about it. It's not that I think the words are "bad", it's that I prefer to have a way of expressing my emotions unequivocally and those are the words that our current society has deemed to be the words to use for that purpose.
Secret Life of Gravy: Liberals are thinkers. That is what it means to be "liberal" -- to embrace the unconventional, to keep an open mind, to think for oneself.
If that's the case, then you want liberals doing research, finding out new stuff, not teaching. For teaching, you want conservatives, who believe that what we already know is worth something too. Conservatives are teachers. That's what it means to be "conservative" -- to embrace the teachings of our forefathers, to respect knowledge, to study those who have gone before and pass that information on to those who come after.
Personally I think too much of either group is intellectually stifling. Give me a nice good mix of stodgy conservatives and morally bankrupt liberals so that I can pick and choose what I want, instead of being forcefed one or the other.
posted by Fontbone at 4:48 PM on December 16, 2004
I don't use profanity or obscenities in my everyday speech; in fact, it's very, very rare to hear me curse at all. But when I do, the people around me know that I mean what I'm saying and that I have strong feelings about it. It's not that I think the words are "bad", it's that I prefer to have a way of expressing my emotions unequivocally and those are the words that our current society has deemed to be the words to use for that purpose.
Secret Life of Gravy: Liberals are thinkers. That is what it means to be "liberal" -- to embrace the unconventional, to keep an open mind, to think for oneself.
If that's the case, then you want liberals doing research, finding out new stuff, not teaching. For teaching, you want conservatives, who believe that what we already know is worth something too. Conservatives are teachers. That's what it means to be "conservative" -- to embrace the teachings of our forefathers, to respect knowledge, to study those who have gone before and pass that information on to those who come after.
Personally I think too much of either group is intellectually stifling. Give me a nice good mix of stodgy conservatives and morally bankrupt liberals so that I can pick and choose what I want, instead of being forcefed one or the other.
posted by Fontbone at 4:48 PM on December 16, 2004
it is if your doing it right
here, kitty kitty -- jonmc needs editing help
posted by Hat Maui at 4:50 PM on December 16, 2004
here, kitty kitty -- jonmc needs editing help
posted by Hat Maui at 4:50 PM on December 16, 2004
"Who the fuck cares? It's Utah."--- How remarkably egocentric: I guess one shouldn't be concerned with events outside our respective state or borough, and particularly in "un-cool" places like Utah, right? Thats an elitist, selfish attitude.
"Seriously, I am sick to death of this shit."-- Great. Do us a favor and don't bother to post then.
"Wouldn't it be easier to go buy a pair of shoes than try to pave the entire globe in soft, soft leather?"--- How about those of us with shoes help those who don't have any? Help those whose shoes have been taken away from them?
"You go right on building your bridge to the eleventh century. My flight for Seoul is boarding."---- Wow, you're such an important jet-setting stud. Perhaps some day you'll lose your job-- and nobody will give a fuck.
posted by buddhanarchist at 6:33 PM on December 16, 2004
"Seriously, I am sick to death of this shit."-- Great. Do us a favor and don't bother to post then.
"Wouldn't it be easier to go buy a pair of shoes than try to pave the entire globe in soft, soft leather?"--- How about those of us with shoes help those who don't have any? Help those whose shoes have been taken away from them?
"You go right on building your bridge to the eleventh century. My flight for Seoul is boarding."---- Wow, you're such an important jet-setting stud. Perhaps some day you'll lose your job-- and nobody will give a fuck.
posted by buddhanarchist at 6:33 PM on December 16, 2004
Personally I think too much of either group is intellectually stifling. Give me a nice good mix of stodgy conservatives and morally bankrupt liberals so that I can pick and choose what I want
I actually agree with you, frontbone. For example a conservative Art Historian would be fine, as would a Shakespearean professor. But I would want my Drama Coach to think outside the box as well as my sociology and philosophy professors. I'm just saying it would be a very bad idea to purge all the liberals.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:46 PM on December 16, 2004
I actually agree with you, frontbone. For example a conservative Art Historian would be fine, as would a Shakespearean professor. But I would want my Drama Coach to think outside the box as well as my sociology and philosophy professors. I'm just saying it would be a very bad idea to purge all the liberals.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:46 PM on December 16, 2004
here, kitty kitty -- jonmc needs editing help
thank you punctuation fuhrer, while you were learning the finer points of comms, I was out getting laid.
Thus saith Mr. Hair Up A Gnat's Ass nofundy Stalker Boy.
Thus saith the hair up the hair up the gnat's ass. Maybe a night out is in order, karl. Might do you some good.
posted by jonmc at 7:59 PM on December 16, 2004
thank you punctuation fuhrer, while you were learning the finer points of comms, I was out getting laid.
Thus saith Mr. Hair Up A Gnat's Ass nofundy Stalker Boy.
Thus saith the hair up the hair up the gnat's ass. Maybe a night out is in order, karl. Might do you some good.
posted by jonmc at 7:59 PM on December 16, 2004
and if anything I figure reasonable leftists like yourself and joulos would be equally pissed at the nofundy's of the world, since wasting energy and effort defending the likes of them only saps your spunk and makes you look foolish.
posted by jonmc at 8:03 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by jonmc at 8:03 PM on December 16, 2004
He has strong opinions. You have personal animus. You follow him around like a dog, Mr. Obsesso Gratuitous Harasser Stalker Boy. I don't see your personal attacks reciprocated except in reaction. Which makes you the bully between the two of you.
posted by y2karl at 8:50 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by y2karl at 8:50 PM on December 16, 2004
JohnR - that must be a long damn shirt.
unless you meant skirt, in which case teh hotness.
these days the freedom is annoying. these damn kids keep wearing things that make sure everyone knows what color and style their undies are. or if they are weraing any in the first place. i do not need to be exposed to undergraduate ass-crack. when you show that much off, it really takes away from it, you know? save something for the imagination. really, honestly, literally half-an-ass hanging out of someone's pants is not sexy.
now that's a reason i worry about getting fired for - some student showing off half an ass and accusing me of looking at it. cussing in class? i probably would say "damn" or maybe "hell" but i've not recalled dropping an f-bomb. so, the half-undressed students probably worry me more than the prospect of getting canned for cursing.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:25 AM on December 17, 2004
unless you meant skirt, in which case teh hotness.
these days the freedom is annoying. these damn kids keep wearing things that make sure everyone knows what color and style their undies are. or if they are weraing any in the first place. i do not need to be exposed to undergraduate ass-crack. when you show that much off, it really takes away from it, you know? save something for the imagination. really, honestly, literally half-an-ass hanging out of someone's pants is not sexy.
now that's a reason i worry about getting fired for - some student showing off half an ass and accusing me of looking at it. cussing in class? i probably would say "damn" or maybe "hell" but i've not recalled dropping an f-bomb. so, the half-undressed students probably worry me more than the prospect of getting canned for cursing.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:25 AM on December 17, 2004
You follow him around like a dog, Mr. Obsesso Gratuitous Harasser Stalker Boy.
And you seem to obsessed with reproaching me, pops. Take that however you wish. And nofundy's a big boy, he dosen't need you protecting him. He fully understands that if you're gonna show your ass, you have to be prepared to have it kicked on occassion.
posted by jonmc at 6:32 AM on December 17, 2004
And you seem to obsessed with reproaching me, pops. Take that however you wish. And nofundy's a big boy, he dosen't need you protecting him. He fully understands that if you're gonna show your ass, you have to be prepared to have it kicked on occassion.
posted by jonmc at 6:32 AM on December 17, 2004
> Greg Allred, a 32-year-old nontraditional student,
Yep, my favorite type - they've been out in the world and noticed - despite the over the top anti-intellectualism in our society today - that it is better to be educated. And when they enter school- usually on their own dime - they are hungry to learn and have (gasp!) their own opinions. They mix it up in the class room, question what I do and make me work for my pay check. Love 'em.
posted by trii at 8:22 AM on December 17, 2004
Yep, my favorite type - they've been out in the world and noticed - despite the over the top anti-intellectualism in our society today - that it is better to be educated. And when they enter school- usually on their own dime - they are hungry to learn and have (gasp!) their own opinions. They mix it up in the class room, question what I do and make me work for my pay check. Love 'em.
posted by trii at 8:22 AM on December 17, 2004
thank you punctuation fuhrer, while you were learning the finer points of comms, I was out getting laid.
Some of us would question your priorities.
posted by rushmc at 8:55 AM on December 17, 2004
Some of us would question your priorities.
posted by rushmc at 8:55 AM on December 17, 2004
He fully understands that if you're gonna show your ass, you have to be prepared to have it kicked on occassion.
We all knew people like you in grade school, Mr. Tough Guy Who Put The Ass In Occasion...
posted by y2karl at 9:28 AM on December 17, 2004
We all knew people like you in grade school, Mr. Tough Guy Who Put The Ass In Occasion...
posted by y2karl at 9:28 AM on December 17, 2004
Some of us would question your priorities.
So you'd place the importance of punctuation as a higher priority than sex? I used to think you were insane, rush, now I'm sure.
and karl, why don't you go cut and paste the bible and post it to the front page in microscopic type or something? because while your attention to me is flattering, I'm spoken for, thanks.
posted by jonmc at 9:43 AM on December 17, 2004
So you'd place the importance of punctuation as a higher priority than sex? I used to think you were insane, rush, now I'm sure.
and karl, why don't you go cut and paste the bible and post it to the front page in microscopic type or something? because while your attention to me is flattering, I'm spoken for, thanks.
posted by jonmc at 9:43 AM on December 17, 2004
During the 1980's I went to a 2 year university (juniors and seniors plus a grad school, too). Anyhoo, the accounting prof says "damn" during her lecture. Later 2 other students from the class approach me with their concern about the profanity in the classroom---My reply "oh, well, fuck a duck." I didn't have to talk to them after that. I suppose this is an example of what fontbone meant about using profanity to intensify the meaning. But really those 2 wanted to file a complain over her one damn utterance!
posted by dsaelf at 1:43 AM on December 21, 2004
posted by dsaelf at 1:43 AM on December 21, 2004
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posted by Keyser Soze at 10:16 AM on December 16, 2004