Lest we forget: Outsourcing Torture
February 8, 2005 9:51 AM Subscribe
Outsourcing Torture The secret history of America’s “extraordinary rendition” program.
Race Bait And Switch
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, February 8, 2005; Page A23
"Every Hispanic in America is watching," Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch declared ominously as most Senate Democrats voted last week to oppose the nomination of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general.
posted by matteo at 10:14 AM on February 8, 2005
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, February 8, 2005; Page A23
"Every Hispanic in America is watching," Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch declared ominously as most Senate Democrats voted last week to oppose the nomination of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general.
posted by matteo at 10:14 AM on February 8, 2005
Ahhh, let me get this straight... the US sends Canadians to Syria for torture? Meanwhile, Syria is on the State Dept. torture list and is one of the countries that Bushco would love to invade? But maybe if they do the Us a few favors we might change our minds?
I think I'll have that little drinkie now....
posted by zaelic at 10:21 AM on February 8, 2005
I think I'll have that little drinkie now....
posted by zaelic at 10:21 AM on February 8, 2005
Good to see our tax money being well spent promoting freedom and liberty and democracy and the rule of law around the world in our name.
I'm so proud to be an American right I'm about to sing Lee Greenwood. Monkeys are doing what?
The establishment of the CIA was a violation of our Constitution.
posted by nofundy at 11:16 AM on February 8, 2005
I'm so proud to be an American right I'm about to sing Lee Greenwood. Monkeys are doing what?
The establishment of the CIA was a violation of our Constitution.
posted by nofundy at 11:16 AM on February 8, 2005
What is wrong with America? Fuck.
posted by chunking express at 12:11 PM on February 8, 2005
posted by chunking express at 12:11 PM on February 8, 2005
The establishment of the CIA was a violation of our Constitution.
Source please?
posted by Cyrano at 1:38 PM on February 8, 2005
Source please?
posted by Cyrano at 1:38 PM on February 8, 2005
Gotta do it for you? Gee, I thought that was common knowledge. Let's see, where might one look?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA
In 1949, the Central Intelligence Agency Act (also called "Public Law 110") was passed, permitting the agency to use confidential fiscal and administrative procedures and exempting it from many of the usual limitations on the use of federal funds. The act also exempted the CIA from having to disclose its "organization, functions, officials, titles, salaries, or numbers of personnel employed." It also created a program called "PL-110" to handle defectors and other "essential aliens" outside normal immigration procedures, as well as give those persons cover stories and economic support. [1] (http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/tenetvdoe-petresp.pdf) The Central Intelligence Agency reports to U.S. Congressional committees but also answers to the President directly. The National Security Advisor is a permanent cabinet member responsible for briefing the President on pertinent information collected from all U.S. intelligence agencies including the National Security Agency, the Drug Enforcement Agency, and others.
Some critics have charged that this violates the requirement in the U.S. Constitution that the federal budget be openly published.
Gee, that was hard to find! My apologies for assuming everyone knew this.
posted by nofundy at 4:33 PM on February 8, 2005
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA
In 1949, the Central Intelligence Agency Act (also called "Public Law 110") was passed, permitting the agency to use confidential fiscal and administrative procedures and exempting it from many of the usual limitations on the use of federal funds. The act also exempted the CIA from having to disclose its "organization, functions, officials, titles, salaries, or numbers of personnel employed." It also created a program called "PL-110" to handle defectors and other "essential aliens" outside normal immigration procedures, as well as give those persons cover stories and economic support. [1] (http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/tenetvdoe-petresp.pdf) The Central Intelligence Agency reports to U.S. Congressional committees but also answers to the President directly. The National Security Advisor is a permanent cabinet member responsible for briefing the President on pertinent information collected from all U.S. intelligence agencies including the National Security Agency, the Drug Enforcement Agency, and others.
Some critics have charged that this violates the requirement in the U.S. Constitution that the federal budget be openly published.
Gee, that was hard to find! My apologies for assuming everyone knew this.
posted by nofundy at 4:33 PM on February 8, 2005
You know, even if the establishment of the CIA was not a violation of the US Constitution, it'd still be a pretty evil organization.
posted by chunking express at 4:37 PM on February 8, 2005
posted by chunking express at 4:37 PM on February 8, 2005
Some critics have charged that this violates the requirement in the U.S. Constitution that the federal budget be openly published.
"Some critics" ain't the same as "struck down by the Supreme Court."
But I'm sure you've got a viable alternative on how an intelligence gathering agency can function with its books open to the world.
You know, even if the establishment of the CIA was not a violation of the US Constitution, it'd still be a pretty evil organization.
No more evil that the equivalent organizations that every other major player on the world stage has, so you're talking a necessary evil at worst.
posted by Cyrano at 1:01 PM on February 9, 2005
"Some critics" ain't the same as "struck down by the Supreme Court."
But I'm sure you've got a viable alternative on how an intelligence gathering agency can function with its books open to the world.
You know, even if the establishment of the CIA was not a violation of the US Constitution, it'd still be a pretty evil organization.
No more evil that the equivalent organizations that every other major player on the world stage has, so you're talking a necessary evil at worst.
posted by Cyrano at 1:01 PM on February 9, 2005
Which is not to claim by any stretch that some of the things it does or has done aren't pretty grotesque.
posted by Cyrano at 1:04 PM on February 9, 2005
posted by Cyrano at 1:04 PM on February 9, 2005
No more evil that the equivalent organizations that every other major player on the world stage has, so you're talking a necessary evil at worst.
Why would you think the other major players are necessary?
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:22 PM on February 9, 2005
Why would you think the other major players are necessary?
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:22 PM on February 9, 2005
Oh, here's some more info on the budget being unconstitutional. It appears I was wrong. I was assuming some kind of details were going to be released, but I doubt disclosing the grand total would hurt much.
posted by Cyrano at 1:29 PM on February 9, 2005
posted by Cyrano at 1:29 PM on February 9, 2005
Why would you think the other major players are necessary?
Because we have an intelligence service and they know that if we do, they can't be without one. And if they all have one, then we can't get rid of ours. Then the smaller guys want to play, too. I know it's circular, but only the most naive or insane would voluntarily put themselves on such nation threatening uneven ground as to do away with spying, which has probably been around since the first tribe of humans split into two tribes.
"Gentlemen don't read each other's mail," is nice in theory, but it goes out the window pretty quickly in practice. (That last one's for you, nofundy.)
posted by Cyrano at 1:48 PM on February 9, 2005
Because we have an intelligence service and they know that if we do, they can't be without one. And if they all have one, then we can't get rid of ours. Then the smaller guys want to play, too. I know it's circular, but only the most naive or insane would voluntarily put themselves on such nation threatening uneven ground as to do away with spying, which has probably been around since the first tribe of humans split into two tribes.
"Gentlemen don't read each other's mail," is nice in theory, but it goes out the window pretty quickly in practice. (That last one's for you, nofundy.)
posted by Cyrano at 1:48 PM on February 9, 2005
from the Poor Man, commenting on a Republican blogger who's only just realizing they're in power and aren't anti-torture: Oh, me. This not an issue waiting to be raised - the issue has been settled now for years. Republican appointees of Republican President Bush set up extra-legal facilities in Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere where our government could torture suspected terrorists, or people we knew weren't terrorists but were useful to practice on. Under the watch of a Republican administration, innocent foreign nationals living outside the US were sent to Syria and Egypt to be tortured. Republican appointees of Republican President Bush advised that anything causing less pain than organ failure was legal treatment for detainees, and that anything could be done to anyone provided the President said it was OK. One such Republican, Albert Gonzales, a long-time crony of Republican President Bush, was then appointed by Republican President Bush to be his Republican Attorney General, and this confirmation was confirmed by the Senate, without a single Republican senator voting against him or even speaking against him.
posted by amberglow at 9:58 PM on February 11, 2005
posted by amberglow at 9:58 PM on February 11, 2005
and an excellent post on all this from digby/Hullabaloo
posted by amberglow at 10:10 PM on February 11, 2005
posted by amberglow at 10:10 PM on February 11, 2005
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Well, at least, we are still #1.
posted by y2karl at 9:52 AM on February 8, 2005