Do the dem's have nowhere to go but up?
February 12, 2005 2:37 PM   Subscribe

Newsfilter: changing of the dems? So our dear old friend Howard Dean has got himself a new home. So this begs the question, is it a new grassroots democratic party or just another sign of a little bit of reeling before the corpse gives up the ghost. Let the trolling begin...
posted by NGnerd (44 comments total)
 
I apologize if this is a double post or too newsy for the general metafilter group, but i though this was a really interesting change in the direction of the Democrats and figured it would be correspondingly of interest to see the responses of the crowd to this new turn. Of course, via fark, cause we can't all be high class
posted by NGnerd at 2:39 PM on February 12, 2005


NGnerd wants answers now! : "is it a new grassroots democratic party or just another sign of a little bit of reeling before the corpse gives up the ghost"

I don't know, and I don't think anyone will know, until enough time has passed to see what works out.

What's interesting is that the grassroots, people who previously felt taken for granted, now feel they have a voice. Let's see how that plays out.
posted by orthogonality at 2:41 PM on February 12, 2005


I liked that he said that the party had to move forward, not just be against something.
posted by forforf at 2:45 PM on February 12, 2005


Finally! This couldn't happen soon enough.
The GOP has framed the debate for too long. Dean will be able to explain to redstaters that they are voting against their own interests and morals.

posted by EmoChild at 2:46 PM on February 12, 2005


I will follow Dean wherever he goes.
posted by keswick at 2:50 PM on February 12, 2005


I personally hope that Dean purges some of the dead-weight from the party. There is too much of an "establishment" that seems more interested in safe job security than in bold leadership.

First to go: everybody that told me in Jan '04 that Kerry is "the most electable."
posted by crazy finger at 2:58 PM on February 12, 2005


A pursuit of denying the other's core values will get the Dem's about as far as last time. Its just about the face on tv. As long as people are voting on the face, or "character", or whatever bullshit line they come up with to obscure the fact they don't know jack about the candidates, the Dem's might as well give Charlie Sheen the nomination. Or "your favorite actor here". It worked for the other side.
posted by uni verse at 2:59 PM on February 12, 2005


Should we be feeding an obvious troll post? There are civilized ways to begin a good debate.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:01 PM on February 12, 2005


whoops. (Martin Sheen) Although that could be interesting too.
posted by uni verse at 3:01 PM on February 12, 2005


RRREAAAGHHH!
posted by graventy at 3:03 PM on February 12, 2005


Sorry. Got a little excited there.
posted by graventy at 3:03 PM on February 12, 2005


the Dem's might as well give Charlie Sheen the nomination. Or "your favorite actor here". It worked for the other side.

That said, Isn't it about time for the Harrison Ford / Samuel Jackson ticket?
posted by Balisong at 3:06 PM on February 12, 2005


I say good for the DNC, though this is no surprise.

I certainly don't share the Economist's outlook on it:

Perhaps the New Democrats will turn out to have more fight left in them than they now appear to possess. Perhaps a charismatic centrist—Hillary Clinton, for example—will ride to the rescue. But at the moment it looks as if the Democrats are in exactly the same state as the British Labour Party was in after their 1987 defeat—in need of one more humiliation before it can come to its senses. If so, they have chosen the right man in Howard Dean.

I find it funny (as in 'you've got a funny growth on your lip') that people equate Dean with that isolated yell. I know it's easy, but come on already.

Fixate on that, and you qualify as dead weight.
posted by Busithoth at 3:14 PM on February 12, 2005


dude, i'd be ALLL over sam jackson as president...bad ass motherfucker in chief!

As for the segway to trolling, i seriously meant it as a joke, but maybe you'd prefer an old fashioned argument
posted by NGnerd at 3:16 PM on February 12, 2005


Perhaps a charismatic centrist—Hillary Clinton, for example...
That's hilarious, keep them coming! (..from the Economist.)
posted by uni verse at 3:23 PM on February 12, 2005


I want to see Morgan Freeman/Harrison Ford.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:25 PM on February 12, 2005


I'd vote Sam Jackson for President. Or Head of S.H.I.E.L.D.
posted by keswick at 3:42 PM on February 12, 2005


Well, I'm of the opinion that what the Democrats have been doing for the past 8 years hasn't been working, so I figure any change has to be an improvement.

If the DNC started running nothing but strippers and pornographers for office it'd at least be different from the standard "so boring they loose no matter what" candidates. Hell, I'd vote for a stripper/pornographer ticket.

Or Sam Jackson. Either one. Heck, how about Sam Jackson for president with a stripper for vice (heh, vice)?
posted by sotonohito at 4:06 PM on February 12, 2005


sotonohito, you should've moved to California three years ago and given her your vote to add to the other 10,919 that voted for her.

Man, that election was one wild ride.
posted by linux at 4:19 PM on February 12, 2005



2008.
posted by uni verse at 4:36 PM on February 12, 2005


Oh yeah, let's replace a Jesus freak with a Scientologist.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:39 PM on February 12, 2005


Fuck yes. This is aweseme; I always liked Dean, and finally he's doing what he does best: mobilizing the base, providing clear-headed, principled leadership. This is exactly what the democratic party needs.
posted by Tlogmer at 4:40 PM on February 12, 2005


I appreciate Dean has head of the DNC more than I would if he was president. As a Vermonter, I saw Dean as governor and 99% of the "success stories" that he went on so much about during his presidential campaign were things done by the State of Vermont that had little or nothing to do with the governor's office. The "Success By Six" program was started long before Dean was governor and it's not terribly hard to keep a good thing going. The Civil Unions bill was passed by the Supreme Court, not the governor. I could go on.

Anyhow, governing a small state like Vermont is nothing like governing a nation unless that nation also had more cows than people. I would be very very wary of a Dean presidency.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:08 PM on February 12, 2005


CunningLinguist: Given a choice, I'd take the Scientologist. Do you think they can do any worse than the Jesus Freaks?

Linux: Mary Carry would have been different, but she really didn't have much of a platform. Besides, she was a porn star, not a stripper. Not that I've got anything against porn stars, but I specified Samuel Jackson and a *stripper*.

Now Bubbles Cash, who ran for Texas governer back in '92, not only had the whole stripper thing going for her, she also had a pretty good looking platform. Besides, she gives me an opportunity to prove that Texas is more progressive than California: we had a sexworker running for governer before you, thbbbttthhh!
posted by sotonohito at 5:10 PM on February 12, 2005


The right-wing talking heads all say Dean is bad for the Dems. Considering that all their personal interests are based on the failure of the Democratic Party, it's nice to see that somebody figured out that the best thing to do is exactly the opposite of the advice of the Republican Echo Chamber. Don't let them fool you... Karl Rove is not celebrating tonight.
posted by wendell at 5:20 PM on February 12, 2005


The Doctor Is In!
posted by jimfl at 5:39 PM on February 12, 2005


What exactly does the chairman of a major party do? I mean, besides raise money for advertising and such? It's not as if they define the messages of winning or losing candidates, at least as far as I can see. And I am told that the smoke filled room is a thing of the past. So- what, exactly?

I'm speaking as an utterly non-aligned but concerned citizen, and I really would like to know, so no snark, please, okay?
posted by IndigoJones at 5:40 PM on February 12, 2005


Do you think they can do any worse than the Jesus Freaks?

Forty out of forty-three Presidents were "Jesus Freaks". So is Howard Dean. Just sayin'.
posted by casu marzu at 6:16 PM on February 12, 2005


As for the segway to trolling, i seriously meant it as a joke

I'm at a loss for words.



posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:23 PM on February 12, 2005


Karl Rove is not celebrating tonight.

Even if he is, it'll be hard for Dean to be worse than Mcauliffe. Maybe a chairman should be a figurehead.
posted by TetrisKid at 6:59 PM on February 12, 2005


Case A) Dean is good for the Democratic Party. He re-invigorates the base, while bringing in just enough disaffected Republicans to win the next presidency for his party. We, as a country, will stop being dumbasses, and countries that used to love us will forgive us and everything will be okay again. The end.

Case B) Dean is bad for the party. But, luckily for us Democrats, he's in a position of little power, and, frustrated by this, he will quit after his first term. The next person of any notoriety in the Democratic party will be some impressive rising star, possibly from the Hillary/Obama camp, who will turn the world on its ear and rip the Republicans a new one.

Am I the only one here who sees this as win-win?
posted by afroblanca at 7:04 PM on February 12, 2005


I'd like to disagree that chairman of the national party is a powerless position.

The republicans won primarily because they had excellent, well funded, well staffed, local party machines in every state.

On the democrats, alot of the message and money came directly from the Kerry campaign, which was not local.

You hear alot about how Kerry bused in 30,000 volunteers to Ohio to get out the vote, while the republicans had 30,000 Ohioians to do work in their own communities.

This is national party logistics stuff. The DNC has ignored the local organization stuff for too long and I think Dean see's this.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 7:53 PM on February 12, 2005


I'm just glad Terry McAuliff is gone, that sycophantic, power-hungry, self-aggrandizing irritant.
Who knows what Dean will bring, but it only can get better, he seems at least to be genuinely passionate about what he is doing... and willing to take the GOP on.
posted by threehundredandsixty at 8:10 PM on February 12, 2005


I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Terry McAuliff was a fuckwit, and good riddance to him and his pathetic "Republican lite" scheme that backfired every bloody time.
posted by malaprohibita at 9:13 PM on February 12, 2005


The DNC has ignored the local organization stuff for too long and I think Dean see's this.

Bingo. This is exactly the point. The only issue becomes if the Democrats have enough heart to stay in it for the long run. Frankly, the Dems may be in for another pasting when the mid-terms roll around in 2006, but the only way they can save themselves is by doing a complete overhaul from the local level up. Dean competely gets this.
posted by psmealey at 9:40 PM on February 12, 2005


Kirth Gerson. I believe you meant "segue", not "segway" like the scooter...
posted by zwemer at 4:59 AM on February 13, 2005


casu marzu: I wasn't the first to use the phrase "Jesus Freak", but...

I would argue that there is a difference between a Christian and a "Jesus Freak". The latter is usually used only for extremists, such as Pat Robertson and his ilk. Calling John Adams and John Q. Adams "Jesus Freaks" is simply divorced from reality. The extremist/fanatic aspect of GWB's Christianity is a new, and dangerous, thing for a US president to have.
posted by sotonohito at 5:32 AM on February 13, 2005


zwemer, I was quoting NGnerd.

I figured that he meant segue; it was the serious joking part that made it too much for me.

posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:00 AM on February 13, 2005


I don't know - I like Dean, and it will be nice to finally hear someone tell it like it is, but the Democrats need a message other than "Republicans suck". I hope he's able to communicate that Dems do have values.
posted by xammerboy at 10:51 AM on February 13, 2005


my apologies to the english prof's in the house, my use of "segway" is an old habit of referring to a tranfser between scenes in a sketch comedy bit (think the crazy animations in monty python), which personally predates the creation of a super cool/overhyped/underpowered motor scooter. Am i reading the pronounciation correctly in that it sounds just the same. Anyway, engineer i are.
posted by NGnerd at 12:51 PM on February 13, 2005


NGnerd please don't use being an engineer as an excuse for not knowing that the scooter is not spelled like the transition. It reflects badly on the rest of us.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:05 PM on February 13, 2005


Dr. Dean is my hero!

Dean taught me to organize precincts. Dean taught me the party is bottom up. We've needed a DNC chair for so long who understands this: the precinct is the unit of organization.

Don't let Karl Rove fool you. This is Rove's worst nightmare. A sleeping giant awakens.
posted by 3.2.3 at 2:36 PM on February 13, 2005


NGnerd: "Segue" refers to a topical transition, in sketch comedy, conversation, or otherwise. The scooter was the first time it was ever spelled the other way in any official capacity, though to your credit "way" would be the far more natural way to spell it (and the word "way" jibes with the meaning, too).
posted by abcde at 7:23 PM on February 13, 2005


Dean is more fun to watch.

Oh wait, this isn't casting central?
posted by HTuttle at 11:43 PM on February 13, 2005


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