4 RCMP slain in routine guard of grow-op [.]

March 4, 2005 10:16 PM

"The loss of four police officers is unprecedented in recent history in Canada" - 4 Royal Canadian Mounted Police guarding a property suspected of running a grow-op were slain in Alberta. This man was known "[to have] hated the RCMP and blamed them for everything wrong with his life". Already there are calls to revisit Canada's stance on marijuana and grow-ops. [.]
posted by phyrewerx (58 comments total)

Alternate news link to the first in case it expires.
posted by phyrewerx at 10:19 PM on March 4, 2005

In all respect to the 'mounties'

Shall I expect the price of 'weed' to go up?
posted by Kilovolt at 10:27 PM on March 4, 2005

Yeah right, in big cities it's either local or only a province away. Not that, you know, I ever sold huge quantities of the stuff.
posted by Dark Messiah at 10:45 PM on March 4, 2005

I'm not canadian, nor an expert in criminal law, but how is stricter punishments for grow-ops going to prevent this thing in the future? Does Canada not already have strict penalties for killing police officers?
posted by spazzm at 10:46 PM on March 4, 2005

I blame the Trailer Park Boys.
posted by oraknabo at 10:49 PM on March 4, 2005

This is a horrible tragedy. I was worried for an old friend of mine that joined the RCMP and I didn't know where they were posted. It really struck me as I was walking to work this morning and all the flags were at half mast. If I understand it correctly. one of the officers was only on the job since Valentine's Day.

It did strike me as sociologically interesting that it is the worst police shooting since the Riel Rebellion (1885)
posted by aclevername at 10:52 PM on March 4, 2005

With all respect, phyrewerx's link is pretty crappy. You might have guessed that yourself with the www.theglobeandmail.com part near the front of it.

Apparently, this was all about stolen property. The original mission was, so I hear, to go get some stolen property. Upon investigation of the grounds, they found a marijuana growing operation. They wait overnight, then go in piecemeal, and get killed piecemeal.

I want to know where the leadership was. One of these kids killed was apparently in his second week (!) on the job. Is that the man you'd choose to take down a dangerous felon who'd decided to branch out into a new line of work?

The RCMP, as they do so often, botched this thing completely. This is the organization that handed over their files on Canadians to CSIS when CSIS was designated to handle internal intelligence.

According to Richard Cleroux in "Official Secrets", CSIS felt that 99% of the files weren't worth anything and destroyed them. This gibes with my experience. I can recall waving to the nice RCMP officer with the camera as I attended a young communists meeting. The roast capitalist pig was delicious, by the way.

Other than harassing Mulroney, what has the RCMP done for us lately?
posted by alex_reno at 10:54 PM on March 4, 2005

I mean, what's the logic?
John Q Public (agitated): "Aw, those damn grow-op operators killed another policeman!"
John's wife (in calm, sensible voice): "Obviously, these people are not deterred by the strict penalties for killing police officers"
John Q Public (extatic): "No problem, they're sure to be deterred by these new penalties for running a grow-op!"

A maniac that is not deterred by 20+ years for murder is supposed to reconsider in the face of a maximum 4 year sentence for running a grow-op?

Or am I missing something?
posted by spazzm at 11:18 PM on March 4, 2005

It did strike me as sociologically interesting that it is the worst police shooting since the Riel Rebellion (1885)

Very tangential, but this comment reminded me of the excellent Louis Riel : A Comic-Strip Biography by Chester Brown. Worth checking out, even if you don't think you're interested in Canadian history.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:27 PM on March 4, 2005

Cheliak said events started to unfold Wednesday when two officers went to Roszko’s farm to seize property under a civil court order. Once there, they found a marijuana grow operation and proceeded to get a search warrant.

From the Herald, no less.

The RCMP guarded the scene to secure it while they waited for auto theft detectives from Edmonton to arrive Thursday.

So, it sounds to me that they were investigating a car theft and in the process discovered a grow-op. A crazed lunatic then shot 4 RCMP officers dead. The immediate connection between marijuana and the abhorrent violence is staggering since this has nothing to do with drugs at all. This is strictly about a very disturbed individual who, by all accounts, had a very negative and public opinion regarding the police and was in possession of weapons that were vastly superior to the officers.

In any events, my deepest condolences to the families involved. This is truly a tragic situation.
posted by purephase at 11:42 PM on March 4, 2005

From Friday's Calgary Herald (print edition, can't find it online):

Roszko [the perpetrator] would regularly confront people around his sprawling farm property for no apparent reason and didn't hesitate to fire warning shots in the past, according to his neighbours.

"Everyone knew he had no conscience," Kimon Pierson [who'd known Roszko since childhood] said. "We'd been asking the question for years why this guy wasn't locked up. . . . He was a known marksman and used his gun regularly. You'd often hear gunshots on his property, and quite often he'd take shots towards people. Eeryone knew not to go anywhere near him."

Also:

"I hate what has happened. I feel terrible. He is not my son. He is a wicked devil," said a frail sounding William Roszko, 80.

[. . .]

"He'd been bad for years. The police knew that. Man alive, this is horrible. . . . I just feel terrible for the police."

So a known sociopathic gun nut - a man feared by his own father - gets into a shooting match with the RCMP, brutally slays four of them, dies himself in the altercation. The cause of this tragedy? The marijuana grow-op the nutjob happened to be tending, of course.

how is stricter punishments for grow-ops going to prevent this thing in the future?

It won't. But it's politically convenient - Anne Mclellan, who's always struck me as the biggest tool in Martin's chest, er, cabinet, is already grandstanding on this point - and the non-lunatic proprietors of grow-ops are not very well organized. It is terrible what happened to those Mounties, and it's a goddamn shame that the price for this tragedy will likely be paid by people whose only crime is a particular kind of horticulture.
posted by gompa at 1:38 AM on March 5, 2005

Jesus, the utter lack of logic in attaching this nut-job murder to pot is astounding. And the same lack of logic attaching harsher grow-op penalties to stopping this type of crime is just laughable.

Marijuana Law Reform: 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
posted by rooftop secrets at 2:06 AM on March 5, 2005

The NYT has wasted no time in spinning up a scare story about this. Mind you, it's not just marijuana, it's the nuclear mutant B.C. Bud. 10 awestruck references to B.C. Bud litter the article, which breathlessly informs us that you-know-what is the result of an arcane shamanic process unmatched by the growers of other countries.

Oddly, Elliot Ness isn't mentioned anywhere therein.
posted by brantstrand at 2:36 AM on March 5, 2005

brantstrand ... that's an awful article ... "the violence may migrate south" ... from canada? ... to the land of the free and the brave and the drunken jerk with a saturday night special? ... they've got to be kidding ... bc is the only place in the known world you can set up a hyrdrophonic growing system? ... yeah, right ... i mean, this incident in alberta is absolute proof of how big the problem is in british columbia, isn't it? ... a truly idiotic article ... good catch

oh, and eliot ness is currently doing an igloo to igloo search in bc ...
posted by pyramid termite at 3:18 AM on March 5, 2005

If you want to guarantee that no more RCMP (or anyone else) gets killed during raids on grow operations, legalize grow operations. The logic is inescapable, unless there is political hay to be made by playing dumb.

Why do I feel increasingly like the kid in the story of The Emperor's New Clothes?
posted by Enron Hubbard at 4:44 AM on March 5, 2005

If you want to guarantee that no more RCMP (or anyone else) gets killed during raids on grow operations, legalize grow operations.

Not one word about the 4 Canadians violently gunned down over the B.C. bud? Just legalize it, man.


The RCMP, as they do so often, botched this thing completely.

Here's a picture of the four men murdered over marijana.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 5:49 AM on March 5, 2005

If you want to guarantee that no more RCMP (or anyone else) gets killed during raids on grow operations, legalize grow operations.

Not one word about the 4 Canadians violently gunned down over the B.C. bud? Just legalize it, man.


The RCMP, as they do so often, botched this thing completely.

Here's a picture of the four men murdered over marijuana.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 5:49 AM on March 5, 2005

I really botched this thing completely.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 5:49 AM on March 5, 2005

It'd be way easier to legalize the shit if the Americans and the wannabe Americans in Parliament would just slink away into the night and let us get back to being a fearsome socialist powderkeg.

I love all the hyperbole from the U.S. ambassador and various U.S. politicians about how legalizing pot is going to destroy society (sort of like letting the gays marry and have Satanic bumsex) and rupture the precious Canada-America bond. Our economies are already intricately linked, and there is nothing anybody can do about that.

I agree with those who find it interesting that this is the biggest whatever since Riel. That actually says something about violence in general up here in Canada. If we only have one of these every few hundred years, that really isn't too shabby.
posted by Kleptophoria! at 6:34 AM on March 5, 2005

Untily yesterday, I used to describe Alberta as "A lot like America, but with fewer guns."

Give it a few days before you conclude that everyone in Canada has gone crazy and thinks this tragedy was primarily the result of the evils of marijuana. With a minority government, the deputy PM can come out and talk tough all she wants -- she was elected in Alberta so politically she probably has to -- knowing full well nothing will come of it. For example, the immediate reaction of the Conservative (big C) leader of the opposition is "We can't just run out on the basis of a single tragedy and make up a bunch of laws."

And you can be sure that when the US calls on Canada to get tough on BC Bud, our prime minister will say "we'll take it under advisement" and then do nothing.
posted by KS at 6:37 AM on March 5, 2005

C'mon, people. Don't fall for the red herrings of guns, mental illness, and sociopathic behavior. We all know the real danger is marijuana.

I need a drink.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:42 AM on March 5, 2005

Mean Mr. Bucket:

I think the point is that it seems they weren't killed over marijuana. They were killed for being police.
posted by Ptrin at 6:50 AM on March 5, 2005

Remember back when pot only made black people rape white Christian women? Now pot is turning us into a nation of cop-killers!

Yeah, I totally hope Paul Martin ignores anything the Americans say on this one.
posted by Kleptophoria! at 7:19 AM on March 5, 2005

Once again, the evil weed gets another few minutes in the foreground of the national consciousness. Once again, nobody with any political power is willing to do the right thing.

Legalize it, already. I never use the stuff, but it's pretty damn obvious to anyone with a working brain that prohibition isn't going to work.
posted by sfenders at 7:19 AM on March 5, 2005

Marijuana turned me into a werewolf. But I got better.

I wish sometimes that the government would just realize that society must interact with the supercrazy .001% of people and that they're liable to do a whole variety of insane/violent things. Some nut shoots four officers. It's tragic, but it has nothing to do with pot laws or any other reasons that need to be legislated. The guy was just plain nuts, be it from his parents beating him or a barnyard animal traumatically biting him when he was little or something. Conforming the criminal system and forcing the rest of society to live in a state that specifically tries to prevent the acts of the supercrazy is futile.
posted by Arch Stanton at 7:41 AM on March 5, 2005

It's tragic, but it has nothing to do with pot laws or any other reasons that need to be legislated. The guy was just plain nuts,

Legalize it, already. I never use the stuff, but it's pretty damn obvious to anyone with a working brain that prohibition isn't going to work.

No & no; the guy was protecting his property, marijuana. He did sell it? If he was growing apples he may have done the same. As it was reported he often shot at people near or on his property.

Roszko [the perpetrator] would regularly confront people around his sprawling farm property for no apparent reason and didn't hesitate to fire warning shots in the past, according to his neighbours.

Above says; he had no apparent reason for confronting people. Now we know, the pot. If it was skunk bud, sure the smell of it lead people to his property.
posted by thomcatspike at 8:23 AM on March 5, 2005

If he was growing apples he may have done the same.

Well yeah. This particular guy might well have. Doesn't mean we don't have a problem with illegal grow-ops. I don't know how bad the problem is, and I know this case isn't really a representative example, but I would bet that on average, marijuana plants tend to be more heavily guarded than fruit-bearing trees. I haven't heard too many stories about heavily-armed minions of organized crime guarding the apple orchards.

So although this recent incident doesn't say anything in particular about our drug policy, it's hardly surprising that it's triggered lots of general discussion on the subject. Fine with me, since it's something that should be talked about more often. To the extent that it's perceived as relevant, these murders contribute to awareness of the fact that keeping pot illegal has significant costs in money, liberty, and lives. Although nothing will come of this, at least it's good to hear all the strong public voices speaking out in favour of legalizing it in the face of McLellan's attempts at spin.
posted by sfenders at 9:04 AM on March 5, 2005

No & no; the guy was protecting his property, marijuana.

And his stolen property, a truck. He was a well rounded criminal, not a marijuana specialist. If he'd had corn fields and an illegal still along with his stolen property and history of anti-social behavior, would we be focusing on the still as the primary problem?

This was about four poor men, some of them barely more than boys, coming between a sociopath and his money. Not marijuana.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:09 AM on March 5, 2005

would we be focusing on the still as the primary problem?

Well, yeah. At least you can be sure the mass media would be. That's pretty much how these things work. If sex, drugs, or terrorism are even remotely connected to any story, that's what people will talk about.
posted by sfenders at 9:40 AM on March 5, 2005

The RCMP, especially in rural areas, are notorious for incompetence, usually followed by corruption to cover it up.
posted by Leonard at 9:49 AM on March 5, 2005

protecting his property, marijuana.

and his money. Not marijuana.
viewed his marijuana as revenue
posted by thomcatspike at 9:50 AM on March 5, 2005

HMMMM
posted by clavdivs at 9:54 AM on March 5, 2005

The guy was known to be a freakin' nutball gun-freak danger by the police. And they sent in four rookies, even though the guy had shot at cops before. And raped a family member. And stolen vehicles. And boobytrapped his fenceline.

Of course they're going to do everything they can to shift the blame from themselves to anything else. That the freak had a large grow-op is very convenient: few people are likely to get really vocal about how silly it is to blame pot instead of the cops.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:43 AM on March 5, 2005

fff, I don't think it's wise to point the blame at the cops. For one thing, because my gut instinct tells me that the psychotic guy with the gun is the one to blame. But also because if the cops feel guilty about it, the only thing they'll likely do is start going in to every routine grow-up bust (and they are often routine, happens quite often) with their fingers on the trigger ready to start shooting at the slightest provocation, which will just lead to a lot more people getting shot.
posted by sfenders at 10:55 AM on March 5, 2005

Understandably, most people are feeling too polite to accuse the rural RCMP of incompetence at this moment while the mounties and their families are grieving. But incompetent they are at dealing with well-armed, determined gunmen. Who can really blame them, though? The incidence rate of violent crime in Canada is negligible, save for a few pockets like metro-Toronto, Hell's Angels bars along the 401, and Indo-Canadian suburbs in greater Vancouver. It would be a waste of time and money to train regular RCMP with the skills and tactics of paramilitaries forces (e.g. SWAT); and it would bring all the inherent problems of having paramilitaries carrying out regular police duties. We don't need that here. Insensitive as this may sound, what happened in northern Alberta this week was an anomaly -- and that it was an anomaly makes it all the more shocking. But an anomaly it was, nonetheless, and thus it should be taken in stride and not pandered to with any knee-jerk reactions.
posted by randomstriker at 11:13 AM on March 5, 2005

For example, the immediate reaction of the Conservative (big C) leader of the opposition is "We can't just run out on the basis of a single tragedy and make up a bunch of laws."


God, what i wouldn't give to hear this kind of logical clarity voiced in US politics. Canada may have it's problems but it seems to be the last bastion of political common sense in North America.
posted by doctor_negative at 11:29 AM on March 5, 2005

Wise or not, sfenders, the cops do fuck it up and then bury it.

In my own town, a parolee in a halfway house broke curfew, so the cops were alerted within fifteen minutes. A few days passed. Did the cops bother to inform the public, release a photo, protect us?

Hell, no! Three days later, a senior citizen is murdered by the creep.

Does the community blame the cops for not warning the public that a guy with a known violent pass and incarcerated for a previous murder was now loose in the community?

No, instead, the halfway house is lynched. Now we have no halfway house, which means previously well-monitored parolees receiving help in their reintegration effort, are now unsupported and freely wandering the streets.

Fucking brilliant, that.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:06 PM on March 5, 2005

I have some connection to some of the people involved, and yes, the guy who did it was an absolute complete nut job, with priors for assault & discharge of firearms & weird child-related stuff and god knows what else.

They sent in very junior officers to deal with the property of a known serious offender, who got ambushed; two more went in to relieve them (I believe) and got ambushed as well.
The third two that came to investigate nearly got themselves killed as well.

I haven't heard much talk among the enforcement crowd about how horrible grow-ops are and how this shows it. I honestly think they have better things to worry about. The grow-op stuff gets tons of play in the media, but I really doubt that the average person (in enforcement or not) cares too incredibly much. There are much more serious things to deal with. This is just a weird aberration caused by a mentally diseased man who fell through the cracks in the northwestern hills of Alberta.

As usual, local MP Anne McLellan is taking the opportunity to sound important, but her spew about raising maximum sentences is completely pointless. People are getting the minimums anyway.
posted by blacklite at 2:06 PM on March 5, 2005

And yes, as mentioned, the cops are incompetent. Edmonton crime is horrible these days. My mother is afraid to go out at night. People have been stabbed at Safeway (grocery store) and at the LRT (light rail transit.) The city is completely mismanaged and no one seems to care very much. There's just nothing here if you're not working for Big Oil, an infrastructure or utility corporation, or going to school.

I imagine rural Alberta more of the same, plus canola.

Oh yeah, but we have the world's biggest mall. Awesome.
posted by blacklite at 2:22 PM on March 5, 2005

20 plants in a quonset hut kept by a known nutcase and convicted child molester do not a "grow-op" make. the entire business was triggered by an attempt to repossess his truck. this was about marijuana? utter bullshit.
posted by quonsar at 2:51 PM on March 5, 2005

This is a great story though. Within hours of the shooting, I heard RCMP Commissioner Zaccardelli on the radio saying in no uncertain terms: "This is exactly why we need to crack down on ORGANIZED CRIME. These GROW-OPS are a menace to society, and anybody who thinks that LEGALIZING MARIJUANA is a step forward is out of their mind. Marijuana is BAD." (Paraphrased, and he's a better speaker than I am a typer, but you get the idea.)

What's interesting is that the RCMP's spokesman had this pre-framed response ready as soon as this hit the news, and wasted no time in making their policy clear to Canadians. I hadn't realized that they were so intent on driving the political process around marijuana legalization (and who knows what other issues).

Why would they do this? Yes, they're against legalization, but I would think that legalization would free the RCMP to do more serious organized crime work, and stop the easy grow-op bucks flowing into gang coffers.

Maybe they're afraid that some officers would be out of work? Help! Canada needs more criminals to support the RCMP! Never mind the fact that they're taking advantage of this tragedy to promote a political agenda.
posted by sneebler at 3:02 PM on March 5, 2005

randomstriker said: Understandably, most people are feeling too polite to accuse the rural RCMP of incompetence at this moment while the mounties and their families are grieving.

Not the people in this thread, though. five fresh fish, for example, says the deaths of the 4 mounties are their own fault. The same FFF who was so upset when members of an online community made fun of a member. What's wrong FFF, did you use up all of your outrage in MeTa? No harsh words for a murderer, eh?
posted by mlis at 3:07 PM on March 5, 2005

The detachment of police for this area was around 20 officers... so sending 1/4 of their force to investigate this lone (admittedly nutjob) doesn't seem so strange.

I totally agree that the RCMP is bringing in their talking points right out of the gate. Instead oflone nutjob shooting at the repo man coming for his truck then hunkering in with a rifle to protect his chop-shop garage full of stolen vehicles, it's used to target "organized crime" and "not so innocent marijuana grow ops".

That being said, sorry boys. Thank you for going out and doing your duty.
posted by anthill at 3:17 PM on March 5, 2005

BTW, our initial response at work was that from a safety perspective, whoever "managed" this operation and let those guys approach a well-known violent gun nut is entirely responsible for the outcome. This is a management issue; the societal stuff is just gravy for the polititians and the media.
posted by sneebler at 3:18 PM on March 5, 2005

Following Quonsar, google tells me if he got a good yield of BC Bud:

20x200g=4Kg

What would that go for in Canada?
I imagine he would be selling to a dealer, if indeed he was selling it, rather than directly to the masses.
OTOH if he smoked it himself that would amount to 9g a day which might account for his paranoia ^_-
posted by asok at 3:55 PM on March 5, 2005

Let's get our talking points straight. Canada is not legalizing marijuana. It is decriminalizing it. It will still be against the law. Just not a criminal offence. Instead of going to jail for possession of personal use amounts you will get a whopping fine. Legally, it is an improvement for pot-smokers but practically it will be worse because now the courts and the police will be more likely to actually enforce the law which they rarely did in the past...

I think there were two levels of failure. There was a deployment failure by a supervisor but there was also an obvious tactical failure by the officers on the ground.

I am curious whether they were caught offguard or if they engaged in a firefight. My guess is they were caught offguard and probably clustered together.
posted by srboisvert at 4:40 PM on March 5, 2005

This situation reminds me of the stand-off between David Koresh and the ATF in Waco. Wouldn't it have been better to wait for this violent man to leave his property so he wouldn't have a tactical advantage? You would have needed an Army to get this man out of his home.

I'm curious to hear from people in law enforcement. 4 mounties for one man doesn't seem out of line, but I wonder if they needed a better defensive plan. It's just so damn sad.

The worst part is waiting to hear the wails of support for this murderer from the militia community.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 5:01 PM on March 5, 2005

five fresh fish, for example, says the deaths of the 4 mounties are their own fault.

Bullshit, MLIS! FFF is not blaming the mounties that were shot, he's blaming the asshats who send in 2 sets of rookies to someone who "had shot at cops before. And raped a family member. And stolen vehicles. And boobytrapped his fenceline" (according to FFF's account above).

But nice strawman.
posted by MikeKD at 5:15 PM on March 5, 2005

I haven't heard much talk among the enforcement crowd about how horrible grow-ops are and how this shows it.

That's because our justice system gives a slap on the wrist for anyone caught growing (unlike, say, the USA). This means that it's utterly stupid to do anything that would result in a real sentence... like, say, shooting a cop.

Aside from the environmental dangers (ie. horribly incomptent wiring for the lights), busting a grow is reasonably safe for the cops. Helluva lot safer than a traffic stop on the side of a busy highway at night.

MLIS: What MikeKD says. Go away if you're just going to be annoying.

As an aside, I'd far prefer to see pot remain criminal than decriminalized. As-is, we have it good: the only people getting busted are running sizable/commercial ops, or are dealing publically, or are being assholes while toking in public. Everyone else is left alone, simply because it's not worth the paperwork. IOW, "there are real criminals to worry about." Decrim simply becomes a revenue-generation system for the cops, meaning harmless people (ie. stoners watching the sunset on Jericho beach) will be hassled.

As far as brain-chemical-altering practices go, I'd rather people were stoned any day of the week, over their being drunk. Drunk people are a problem. Stoners... hell, most of them can't get their shit together enough to be a problem. Everyone's met an aggressive drunk; can't imagine there are many aggressive stoners!
posted by five fresh fish at 6:18 PM on March 5, 2005

It's still possible that they might legalize it, regulate it like tobacco. There is more than one proposal out there to that effect. Not really likely in this parliament with the PM being so conservative, but the events of the past few years have at least pushed that possibility into being acceptable for mainstream political debate.
posted by sfenders at 6:45 PM on March 5, 2005

But nice strawman.

Huh?

fff said: Of course they're going to do everything they can to shift the blame from themselves to anything else. That the freak had a large grow-op is very convenient: few people are likely to get really vocal about how silly it is to blame pot instead of the cops.

and: Wise or not, sfenders, the cops do fuck it up and then bury it.

Yeah, that's just me being annoying.
posted by mlis at 7:20 PM on March 5, 2005

When I said "they're going to do everything they can to shift the blame from themselves to anything else" I sure can't be referring to the dead men, can I now? So when you claim that I say "the deaths of the 4 mounties are their own fault," you're obviously making up stories.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:39 PM on March 5, 2005

Jokes about the price of bud going up or throwaway remarks about RCMP incompetence aren't cool.
The officers we're doing a difficult job. They knew who they were dealing with. They took in extra men and weapons in addition to their sidearms. Somehow it still went wrong. I doubt anyone posting here really knows what happpened, so why don't we give them the benefit of doubt?

If these officers made any mistakes, they have paid for it in full.


posted by login at 8:16 AM on March 6, 2005

MLIS, what are you smoking?
fff quote " shift the blame from themselves to anything else"

I dont think the dead men are going to be doing to much shifting, so i think it safe to assume hes talking about the leaders, the people who are responsible for assigning rookies to a dangerous job. Im not a rcmp expert, but I dont think the rookies get to pick which calls/jobs they respond to.
posted by Iax at 1:06 PM on March 7, 2005

RCMP operation called 'failure' of supervision.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:50 AM on March 8, 2005

I'm very late back to this thread, but here goes:

asok: 4 kilos would be about $4200, if you sold it by the gram. More like a grand if sold by the pound. (Yes, the drug trade here still uses imperial measurements. Get with the program, guys.)

Mean Mr. Bucket, are you being an idiot intentionally? As demonstrated often enough in this thread, this arrest-gone-bad was about a stolen car, not pot.

You quoted me, so I assume my post was one you had trouble with. Did you note the part where I asked where the leadership was? In no way am I blaming those 4 RCMP who were killed. What I want is an investigation into the management at that detachment, as I suspect they are incompetent. Certainly their planning for this operation was inadequate. EVERYONE IN TOWN knew this guy was a psycho who hated cops. RCMP management fucked up, and they should be held responsible.

Just to be clear, Mr. Bucket, Roszko shouldn't have shot those cops. He was wrong to do that. Of course, he's dead, so that problem is already taken care of.

login: read what people said, not what you want them to say. I am angry that 4 (I'm old enough to call them) kids are dead because of this psycho. The officers shouldn't have had to pay "in full." With competent mangement, maybe (almost certainly) they wouldn't have.

That's why I'm pissed off.
posted by alex_reno at 9:39 PM on March 14, 2005

Turns out the cops also had a bunch of civilians on the property assisting with the repossesion and grow-op take-down.

On the property during a time they had lost track of Roszko.

On the property during a time when it turns out Roszko was, in fact, hiding out on the property.

The cops almost ended up with a much more serious mess on their hands: they almost ended up with a half-dozen dead civilians in addition to the dead cops.

It was a managment fuckup beyond belief.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:56 AM on March 15, 2005

My last response was over the top. I should have found a less confrontational way to say what I wanted to say. I apologize to all involved.
posted by alex_reno at 9:30 PM on March 18, 2005