So it was Karl Rove
July 10, 2005 4:03 PM Subscribe
So it was Karl Rove The question now is if Novak testified or is a target of the investigation.
This post was deleted for the following reason: wait, it was WHO again...? double.
Facinating facinating facinating.
If rove's lawyer admits it, we can be sure that Rove admits it as well, which Means Rove is guilty of Perjury if rove testified that he didn't tell anyone untill after Novak's column hit the press.
Unfortunetly, the Grand Jury testimony is secret. So we don't know if Rove said that, or he took the 5th, or what. All this is intresting, but it's not going to "blow up" for a while, the wheels of justice are slow sometimes.
Also, intresting analysis on DailyKos of all places,
posted by delmoi at 4:19 PM on July 10, 2005
If rove's lawyer admits it, we can be sure that Rove admits it as well, which Means Rove is guilty of Perjury if rove testified that he didn't tell anyone untill after Novak's column hit the press.
Unfortunetly, the Grand Jury testimony is secret. So we don't know if Rove said that, or he took the 5th, or what. All this is intresting, but it's not going to "blow up" for a while, the wheels of justice are slow sometimes.
Also, intresting analysis on DailyKos of all places,
While Novak's column did not run until Monday, July 14, it could have been seen by people in the White House or the media as early as Friday, July 11, when the Creators Syndicate distributed it over the Associated Press wire.Cooper talked to Rove at 11:07am, according to Newsweek. You can bet Fitzgerald has already determined precisely when Novak's column hit the wires.
posted by delmoi at 4:19 PM on July 10, 2005
No, the question is how much credibility does the Times have? Is this just another last gasp, another character assasination from the increasingly vile left.
Judity Miller works for the [New York] Times, but she's not talking and she never wrote an article on this anyway. But Matt Cooper who works for Time Magazine is. And in any event this isn't an NYT story, it's from "AFP" and AFP is only relaying what Karl Rove's Lawyer said Are you calling Robert Luskin a vile leftist?
posted by delmoi at 4:24 PM on July 10, 2005
Judity Miller works for the [New York] Times, but she's not talking and she never wrote an article on this anyway. But Matt Cooper who works for Time Magazine is. And in any event this isn't an NYT story, it's from "AFP" and AFP is only relaying what Karl Rove's Lawyer said Are you calling Robert Luskin a vile leftist?
posted by delmoi at 4:24 PM on July 10, 2005
Is this just another last gasp, another character assasination from the increasingly vile left.
posted by paleocon at 7:18 PM EST on July 10 [!]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........
Um.... Clinton?
posted by Freen at 4:24 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by paleocon at 7:18 PM EST on July 10 [!]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........
Um.... Clinton?
posted by Freen at 4:24 PM on July 10, 2005
BUSH PARDONS WEINBERGER, FIVE OTHERS TIED TO IRAN-CONTRA
Calls Weinberger "true American patriot
By Dian McDonald
USIA White House Correspondent
Washington -- President Bush December 24 granted pardons to former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair.
Bush said Weinberger -- who had been scheduled to go on trial in Washington January 5 on charges related to Iran-Contra -- was a "true American patriot," who had served with "distinction" in a series of public positions since the late 1960s.
"I am pardoning him not just out of compassion or to spare a 75-year-old patriot the torment of lengthy and costly legal proceedings, but to make it possible for him to receive the honor he deserves for his extraordinary service to our country," Bush said in a proclamation granting executive clemency.
The president also pardoned five other persons who already had pleaded guilty or had been indicted or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages investigation. They were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George, all former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Explaining those pardons, Bush said the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." They did not profit or seek to profit from their conduct, Bush said, adding that all five "have already paid a price -- in depleted savings, lost careers, anguished families -- grossly disproportionate to any misdeeds or errors of judgment they may have committed."
The Iran-Contra affair involved the secret sale of weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of American hostages held in Lebanon by pro-Iranian terrorists and the diversion of money from that sale to provide support for anti-communist resistance fighters in Nicaragua known as the "Contras."
Weinberger had been charged by independent counsel Lawrence Walsh with four counts of lying to congressional Iran-Contra investigators in 1987 and to Walsh's prosecutors in 1990. His case involved allegations that he had concealed from congressional investigators his personal notes that detailed events related to Iran-Contra and which reportedly undermined what then-President Reagan said about the origins and operations of the covert arms-for-hostages dealings. Weinberger had pleaded not guilty and said he was being unfairly prosecuted.
Although a president has unlimited pardon powers, it is highly unusual to pardon someone before trial and conviction. The best-known precedent -- following the Watergate political scandal during the Nixon administration -- was former President Ford's pardon in 1974 of former President Nixon, who was never indicted.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 4:26 PM on July 10, 2005
Calls Weinberger "true American patriot
By Dian McDonald
USIA White House Correspondent
Washington -- President Bush December 24 granted pardons to former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair.
Bush said Weinberger -- who had been scheduled to go on trial in Washington January 5 on charges related to Iran-Contra -- was a "true American patriot," who had served with "distinction" in a series of public positions since the late 1960s.
"I am pardoning him not just out of compassion or to spare a 75-year-old patriot the torment of lengthy and costly legal proceedings, but to make it possible for him to receive the honor he deserves for his extraordinary service to our country," Bush said in a proclamation granting executive clemency.
The president also pardoned five other persons who already had pleaded guilty or had been indicted or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages investigation. They were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George, all former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Explaining those pardons, Bush said the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." They did not profit or seek to profit from their conduct, Bush said, adding that all five "have already paid a price -- in depleted savings, lost careers, anguished families -- grossly disproportionate to any misdeeds or errors of judgment they may have committed."
The Iran-Contra affair involved the secret sale of weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of American hostages held in Lebanon by pro-Iranian terrorists and the diversion of money from that sale to provide support for anti-communist resistance fighters in Nicaragua known as the "Contras."
Weinberger had been charged by independent counsel Lawrence Walsh with four counts of lying to congressional Iran-Contra investigators in 1987 and to Walsh's prosecutors in 1990. His case involved allegations that he had concealed from congressional investigators his personal notes that detailed events related to Iran-Contra and which reportedly undermined what then-President Reagan said about the origins and operations of the covert arms-for-hostages dealings. Weinberger had pleaded not guilty and said he was being unfairly prosecuted.
Although a president has unlimited pardon powers, it is highly unusual to pardon someone before trial and conviction. The best-known precedent -- following the Watergate political scandal during the Nixon administration -- was former President Ford's pardon in 1974 of former President Nixon, who was never indicted.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 4:26 PM on July 10, 2005
Is this really different enough from today's earlier thread on this topic to warrant a separate FPP? I'm as interested in this story as anybody, but all these speculative threads don't seem to serve any purpose.
posted by stopgap at 4:29 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by stopgap at 4:29 PM on July 10, 2005
"another character assasination from the increasingly vile left."
what, does the old addage "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" no longer apply? jeez. trollage.
posted by Busithoth at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2005
what, does the old addage "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" no longer apply? jeez. trollage.
posted by Busithoth at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2005
The Jesse Helms, You've mentioned that before in another thread.
Unfortunately, you are completely correct. Odd how it's the republicans who are doing all the crazy "Iran Contra" / Starting Illegitimate wars / Commiting Treason etc these days. The worst a Democrat has done in the white house is gotten a blowjob, and then lied about it.
I wonder how they are going to spin "Bush's Brain Commited Treason!"
posted by Freen at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2005
Unfortunately, you are completely correct. Odd how it's the republicans who are doing all the crazy "Iran Contra" / Starting Illegitimate wars / Commiting Treason etc these days. The worst a Democrat has done in the white house is gotten a blowjob, and then lied about it.
I wonder how they are going to spin "Bush's Brain Commited Treason!"
posted by Freen at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2005
Paleocon sez: another character assasination from the increasingly vile left.
You are aware that "the left" is a social construct, right? The product of a need to generate revenue from advertisers on your local Limbaugh AM affiliate? ... that there is no such thing as a unified left in the US circa now? ... that you come across like a 13 year-old Dungeon Master cum Jr. High Young Republicans Club vice-president? ... that the more you type, the harder I laugh and the more cheap domestic beer I drink? ... that your attempt to hitch your wagon to this particular frat-boy, born-with-a-coke-spoon-in-his-nose star is laughable were it not so, ah, how do we say, expected?
Tell me you're in on the joke that's you, my man, and I'll pop a cold one for ya.
posted by joe lisboa at 4:37 PM on July 10, 2005
You are aware that "the left" is a social construct, right? The product of a need to generate revenue from advertisers on your local Limbaugh AM affiliate? ... that there is no such thing as a unified left in the US circa now? ... that you come across like a 13 year-old Dungeon Master cum Jr. High Young Republicans Club vice-president? ... that the more you type, the harder I laugh and the more cheap domestic beer I drink? ... that your attempt to hitch your wagon to this particular frat-boy, born-with-a-coke-spoon-in-his-nose star is laughable were it not so, ah, how do we say, expected?
Tell me you're in on the joke that's you, my man, and I'll pop a cold one for ya.
posted by joe lisboa at 4:37 PM on July 10, 2005
People, seriously, palecon's point is not worthy of a response.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:39 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:39 PM on July 10, 2005
Looks like he'll be found guilty but like The Jesse Helms implies, Bush--or his Repub. sucessor--will pardon him. *
*NOT that I think there will be another Repub. president, God forbid. Just sayin. Only if the Dems take the White House in '08 will justice be served upon the sly bastard.
Maybe this belongs in MeTa or something, but can someone please explain to me why Robert Novak isn't in jail ala Judith Miller? Isn't he the one to break the story in the first place?
posted by zardoz at 4:40 PM on July 10, 2005
*NOT that I think there will be another Repub. president, God forbid. Just sayin. Only if the Dems take the White House in '08 will justice be served upon the sly bastard.
Maybe this belongs in MeTa or something, but can someone please explain to me why Robert Novak isn't in jail ala Judith Miller? Isn't he the one to break the story in the first place?
posted by zardoz at 4:40 PM on July 10, 2005
She's in jail for contempt of court zardoz. He's testifying.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:42 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:42 PM on July 10, 2005
I hate to see a purdy mouth like that go to jail...
Is this just another last gasp, another character assasination from the increasingly vile left.
Did someone here fart? Cause I smell shit.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:45 PM on July 10, 2005
Is this just another last gasp, another character assasination from the increasingly vile left.
Did someone here fart? Cause I smell shit.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:45 PM on July 10, 2005
You people need to learn to ignore a troll the guy's name is "paelocon"
And yes, I responded to him, but not with more vitrol.
posted by delmoi at 4:54 PM on July 10, 2005
And yes, I responded to him, but not with more vitrol.
posted by delmoi at 4:54 PM on July 10, 2005
Wow, for the first time in years I actually have some hope that someone from the Bush administration is actually going to have to face the consequences for his/her own actions. 'Tis a faint, flickering hope, but it cheers and warms one ever so slightly.
And everyone, please, please, please, ignore paleocon.
posted by orange swan at 4:56 PM on July 10, 2005
And everyone, please, please, please, ignore paleocon.
posted by orange swan at 4:56 PM on July 10, 2005
Sorry, delmoi, o.swan, et al. - please blame the beer and sunshine, if you're feeling kind.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:00 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by joe lisboa at 5:00 PM on July 10, 2005
troll? i thought it was satirical. isn't paleocon a perjorative term??
posted by spiderwire at 5:04 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by spiderwire at 5:04 PM on July 10, 2005
I thought spoons were for heroin, not coke... shows how much I know about drugs.
I know even less about politics. So, pardon this question if it's obvious, but why did Rove release Cooper and not Miller? Did he not talk to Miller? Did she get her information from somewhere else - another planet perhaps? Also : why is she in jail if she never wrote about the story? And why exactly do I care?
I need answers!
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:04 PM on July 10, 2005
I know even less about politics. So, pardon this question if it's obvious, but why did Rove release Cooper and not Miller? Did he not talk to Miller? Did she get her information from somewhere else - another planet perhaps? Also : why is she in jail if she never wrote about the story? And why exactly do I care?
I need answers!
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:04 PM on July 10, 2005
*NOT that I think there will be another Repub. president, God forbid.
Well, if another last gasp from the increasingly vile left is anything like another last throes from an increasingly desperate insurgency, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
posted by queen zixi at 5:10 PM on July 10, 2005
Well, if another last gasp from the increasingly vile left is anything like another last throes from an increasingly desperate insurgency, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
posted by queen zixi at 5:10 PM on July 10, 2005
Heroin is the big spoons with burn marks on the bottom. Coke is the tiny spoon dangling from a small vial by a miniscule chain.
posted by Samizdata at 5:13 PM on July 10, 2005
posted by Samizdata at 5:13 PM on July 10, 2005
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posted by paleocon at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2005