Peace from Stockwell Tube?

July 29, 2005 5:35 AM

"Recognising the potential of the current situation and in order to enhance the democratic process and underlying our definitive commitment to its success, the leadership of the IRA have decided that as of midnight, August 31, there will be a complete cessation of military operations. All our units have been instructed accordingly." Sounds good until you realise this was the 1994 ceasefire statement! Sound familiar to anyone here? Now that the British police have started killing terror suspects, it would seem that the I.R.A. doesn't want to play anymore.
posted by DrDoberman (33 comments total)

Yeah, I am sure the IRA are shaking in their boots
posted by Livewire Confusion at 5:43 AM on July 29, 2005

"Now that the British police have started killing terror suspects, it would seem that the I.R.A. doesn't want to play anymore."


Your analysis is almost as bad as your attitude. Is it you position that no IRA members have died prior to now, or just that it was never brithish poliece that killed them.

The announcement is the first one that ever publicly from within the IRA called for arms to be decomissioned. It is likely that the London bombings have sped thing along as the IRA really wants to distance itself from those acts as well as its own past.

I have no love for Jerry Addams no do I have a rosy picture of the political mess that is N. Ireland, however your post is myopic, foolish and pointlessly snide.
posted by BeerGrin at 5:46 AM on July 29, 2005

damn, I should not type angry.
posted by BeerGrin at 5:46 AM on July 29, 2005

It's GERRY Adams, BeerGrin
posted by Livewire Confusion at 5:47 AM on July 29, 2005

if you are trying to say the IRA are quitting because they were in some way scared of "shoot to kill" then that's absolute rubbish. The dirty war in Ireland saw republicans shot by British security forces in what many people have called a "shoot to kill" policy. This article explores the links in a more coherent manner

The latest IRA announcement is part of an on-going political process which started with the GFA and may take a generation to resolve.
posted by johnny novak at 5:48 AM on July 29, 2005

"It's GERRY Adams, BeerGrin
posted by Livewire Confusion at 8:47 AM EST on July 29 [!]"

Yes, correct, sorry. I am pre-coffee.
posted by BeerGrin at 5:49 AM on July 29, 2005

it would seem that the I.R.A. doesn't want to play anymore.

Typical uniformed rhetoric from a moron. That is really gonna help things.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 5:51 AM on July 29, 2005

Yes, correct, sorry. I am pre-coffee.

No Problem BeerGrin.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 5:53 AM on July 29, 2005

Beergrin said it perfectly.
posted by furtive at 5:55 AM on July 29, 2005

Now that the British police have started killing terror suspects, it would seem that the I.R.A. doesn't want to play anymore.

Interesting conclusion. The shoot to kill policy that has accounted for non-suicidal IRA members and a few innocents besides didn't seem to faze them too much. They whined about fair play but they carried on.
posted by vbfg at 5:56 AM on July 29, 2005

The point is... this a beautiful thing. The IRA announced a complete end to violence and the Brits are good on their word. This is good all around. Now if we could get some moderate minded people in Stormont (e.g. Throw out Ian "Ulster Says No!" Paisley) then POWER SHARING can begin.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 5:58 AM on July 29, 2005

Um, the British have been using "shoot to kill" with the Irish for centuries, including a period a few decades ago when they sent military snipers on assasination missions after the IRA, in a manner somewhat similar to what the Israelis do with the Palestinians. Do you honestly think the IRA's quaking in their boots because the British police shot a guy on the subway?
posted by unreason at 6:03 AM on July 29, 2005

I love this SHOOT TO KILL POLICY, Unreason

On November 20, 1920 Croke Park was the scene of a massacre by the Auxiliary Division. British police auxiliaries entered the ground, shooting indiscriminately into the crowd killing 13 during a Dublin-Tipperary football match. The dead included 11 spectators and 2 players, Jim Egan and Michael Hogan.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 6:16 AM on July 29, 2005

Or how about all those wonderful Black and Tans who'd shoot Irish children off hedgerows?
posted by Livewire Confusion at 6:17 AM on July 29, 2005

"Or how about all those wonderful Black and Tans who'd shoot Irish children off hedgerows?
posted by Livewire Confusion at 9:17 AM EST on July 29 [!]"

What a waste. We all know Irish children are for cooking and eating.
posted by BeerGrin at 6:28 AM on July 29, 2005

Typical uniformed rhetoric from a moron. That is really gonna help things.

I believe that spending your youth growing up in England during the IRA's mainland bombing campaign does give me the right to be cynical of I.R.A. ceasefire announcements. If I have offended anyone with this cynicism - I appologise.

The thought (or question) behind this post is, what is different this time around? The British public's quiet acceptance of terror suspects being shot in front of their eyes; literally? The lack of cash from misguided American fund raisers? Why should we believe this announcement? What is different?
posted by DrDoberman at 6:29 AM on July 29, 2005

Looking at the front pages of the papers today was heartening. It's a good thing, and I think it will stick.

I don't think you can remove it from the prominence of Islamic terror at the moment; not at all. I know here in the States after 11 sept people I know (both Irish and American) had to consider what vocally supporting the IRA meant. Gerry always seems to know exactly which way the wind is blowing, whatever else you can say about him.

I think it's important to recognise the Belfast residents' (Belfasters?) wariness about what crime and general thuggery the "volunteers" will get up to without a firm command. Hopefully someone will stay on top of that.

And look, the statement actually got Bertie out of the Galway races - that's how you know how important this is!
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:32 AM on July 29, 2005

What a waste. We all know Irish children are for cooking and eating.

Funny, All humor aside there have been tragedies on both sides of the fence. It doesn't matter who started it at this point. We NEED to move forward.

I believe that spending your youth growing up in England during the IRA's mainland bombing campaign does give me the right to be cynical of I.R.A. ceasefire announcements

Yes, indeed it does. I also have cynical feelings when I visit my cousins in the north who have scars under their ears where the fecking prods ripped their ears from their heads during "interrogation" when they were teenagers.

So you kind of piss me off when you make OFFENSIVE and snide remarks.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 6:45 AM on July 29, 2005

Why should we believe this announcement? What is different?

DrDoberman those are good and legitimate questions (which going all the way back to the black and tans doesn't answer). Gawd knows I don't have the answer, but this editorial by Ed Moloney (who's as expert and has as much access as anyone) is a good start in thinking about it.
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2005

I don't think you can remove it from the prominence of Islamic terror at the moment; not at all.

I agree. These guys have been - at least partly - outflanked by the brutality of the new breed of terrorists. The "good kind" of terrorist ain't gonna raise much sympathy these days. Now, if only ETA would comprehend that ...
posted by magullo at 6:48 AM on July 29, 2005

And look, the statement actually got Bertie out of the Galway races - that's how you know how important this is!

Sure to be sure, it's pissing out anyway, like!
posted by Livewire Confusion at 6:48 AM on July 29, 2005

DrDoberman, perhaps it would have been best to ask the question than suggest it was based on one random shooting of an innocent man in a London subway.
Others have said it more harshly, but it *was* a poor choice of words on your part.
posted by mk1gti at 6:50 AM on July 29, 2005

"The thought (or question) behind this post is, what is different this time around? The British public's quiet acceptance of terror suspects being shot in front of their eyes; literally? The lack of cash from misguided American fund raisers? Why should we believe this announcement? What is different?"

This would have made an excellent post.

I think it is a mixture of all of these things. Over here, despite bad American news many "Irish Americans" have finally gotten the hint that the IRA are not simply a home grown resistance to a somehow blindly occupational England. (I listed this first not because the US is most important but as an admission against interest. My family is 3 generations off the boat from Cork and I learned allot of incorrect ideas not from the Great Grandparents, but from "Plastic Paddy" relatives who never set foot on the island.)

I think the Police shootings are really not the major push as much as the desire to not be counted on the same side with Jihad fanatics. The ground swell of public opinion, If I am not mistaken, is that people are genuinely fed up with the violence and no longer willing to give credence to the leaders who would use violence to their own ends.

Another thing that has shifted I think is the economics of Ireland. Again unless my sources are completely incorrect, the pharma and biotech businesses in Ireland have really given the economy there a serious boost. A strong job market is quite possibly the best medicine for any area plagued with violence and conflict.

So really, the change is not coming from the politicians. Really I suppose that lasting change never does.
posted by BeerGrin at 6:52 AM on July 29, 2005

the pharma and biotech businesses in Ireland have really given the economy there a serious boost

You're absolutely right there, you might add IT, construction and a runaway housing boom. The economic disparity between North and South which was the growling engine of the Troubles has gone. Who to thank? Ironically, the European Union and their massive transfer payments to the Republic (and of course the highly educated citizens of Eire itself). Something to remember when a grumpy Brit asks what the EU have ever done for us.
posted by grahamwell at 7:22 AM on July 29, 2005

You're right of course Graham about the economy, but I get the impression from family in Tyrone (I'm a Dub) that the boom hasn't affected most parts of the North to the same extent as the Republic?

(Although maybe some of it "trickles up"? Small anecdote - when my brother bought a house recently, surveyors were so busy in Dublin that he was calling up surveyors in Newry to try to persuade them to come down!)
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:45 AM on July 29, 2005

At some point after 9/11 I read that Irish-American donations to the IRA were way down. Is it fair to consider this news as the natural followup to that? (Obviously it discounts other factors such as the abovementioned economic ones.)
posted by Aknaton at 7:45 AM on July 29, 2005

Now that the British police have started killing terror suspects, Islamic extremeists have made terrorism uncool and unfashionable, it would seem that the I.R.A. doesn't want to play anymore.

Pity no one has told Ian Paisley that being an uncompromising hard liner is equally out of fashion.
posted by three blind mice at 7:54 AM on July 29, 2005

I also have cynical feelings when I visit my cousins in the north who have scars under their ears where the fecking prods ripped their ears from their heads during "interrogation" when they were teenagers.

'feckin prods'?! And you wonder why people like Paisley have a consituency?
posted by the cuban at 8:05 AM on July 29, 2005

I think the Police shootings are really not the major push as much as the desire to not be counted on the same side with Jihad fanatics. The ground swell of public opinion, If I am not mistaken, is that people are genuinely fed up with the violence and no longer willing to give credence to the leaders who would use violence to their own ends.

That was my first thought upon hearing the news. It looks like quite good progress.
posted by caddis at 8:07 AM on July 29, 2005

Jameson, I agree, as a Dub you can correct me but the effect seems to have been to level out the economic prospects of the island. When I went touring there, driving from Dublin to Belfast in 1985, there was a dramatic and visible difference in prosperity between North and South. This single factor, I believe, drove much of the Troubles. It's gone and so have they. The politicians helped, especially Senator Mitchell, who brought a genuinely fresh mind to the problem, but as with so many things, follow (or rather don't follow) the money.

This may all sound a bit Marxist, put me right.

I should also add that in 1985 my English friends were all laughing at the silly Irish having invested so much money in their education system. They're not laughing now.
posted by grahamwell at 8:10 AM on July 29, 2005

"Plastic Paddy"

Heh heh heh.

Lots of misguidedness in the states over the IRA. Mostly 'cause of the PR. I suppose were I to sympathize with any outfit, it'd be the IRA...

That sounds a lot more cuddly than it is. They did cross the line between guerrilla war & terrorism.
So my statement is very loosely analogous to: 'were I to sympathize with a child rapist...'
And the English...enough said in this thread.

It's amazing though. I have great respect for the Irish. Letting go and rising above the past is one of the hardest things conceivable - even for an individual. Many states, ethnicities, etc, haven't accomplished that in thousands of years.

Truly, living well is the best revenge.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:57 AM on July 29, 2005

I'm pretty sure "We all know Irish children are for cooking and eating" refers to A Modest Proposal, which was also satirical.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:48 AM on July 29, 2005

Kirkaracha, that reminded me of the gay rights slogan "Send us your children. What we can't fuck, we'll eat."!
posted by DrDoberman at 1:01 PM on July 29, 2005