A womb with a view
July 30, 2005 2:30 AM Subscribe
Umbert The Unborn, the world's most lovable unborn baby & The wacky adventures of a fetus. Order now for Christmas
Always with the Orwellian "unborn." There's been a perfectly good word for that for centuries-- "fetus." Why isn't the character "Cletus the Fetus"? Because it doesn't have enogh doublespeak in it?
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:20 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:20 AM on July 30, 2005
Ah, I thought it said unicorn at first glance, and then the whole fetus thing sounded really weird. Good thing I clocked on the link, huh?
But I want more.
posted by redsparkler at 3:28 AM on July 30, 2005
But I want more.
posted by redsparkler at 3:28 AM on July 30, 2005
i'm kind of interested where a comic with the same scene, character, and set-up in every frame can really go for 80 strips.
posted by bryak at 4:11 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by bryak at 4:11 AM on July 30, 2005
Just what the world needs -- yet another polemical comic strip that isn't funny.
Never mind, Umbert. Perhaps we'll get more laughs out of your situation when you grow up to become an altar boy, fending off the unwanted advances of your parish priest?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:33 AM on July 30, 2005
Never mind, Umbert. Perhaps we'll get more laughs out of your situation when you grow up to become an altar boy, fending off the unwanted advances of your parish priest?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:33 AM on July 30, 2005
Wow, great for church bulletins and pro-life newsletters.
Not that this is the first foetus-based comic I've seen, mind you...
posted by terpsichoria at 4:48 AM on July 30, 2005
Not that this is the first foetus-based comic I've seen, mind you...
posted by terpsichoria at 4:48 AM on July 30, 2005
Umbert? With his flat head and a name like Umbert, that kid is going to get sooo teased. Poor Umbert.
posted by R. Mutt at 5:08 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by R. Mutt at 5:08 AM on July 30, 2005
Very good link.
I look forward to reading the site as it develops. They've just started. Give them some time.
It's time to start holding women responsible for their sexual actions. Why should they get a pass. We hound men into the grave if they father a child.
Children (and men) have rights, too.
posted by Shouting at 5:15 AM on July 30, 2005
I look forward to reading the site as it develops. They've just started. Give them some time.
It's time to start holding women responsible for their sexual actions. Why should they get a pass. We hound men into the grave if they father a child.
Children (and men) have rights, too.
posted by Shouting at 5:15 AM on July 30, 2005
Mayor Curley
Always with the Orwellian "unborn." There's been a perfectly good word for that for centuries-- "fetus." Why isn't the character "Cletus the Fetus"? Because it doesn't have enogh doublespeak in it?
'Fetus' is a clinical term. It is used by clinicians and people who are ambivilent about the humanity of their children. Parents who love their children do not attempt to obfuscate their identity with clinical terms.
posted by bevets at 6:21 AM on July 30, 2005
Always with the Orwellian "unborn." There's been a perfectly good word for that for centuries-- "fetus." Why isn't the character "Cletus the Fetus"? Because it doesn't have enogh doublespeak in it?
'Fetus' is a clinical term. It is used by clinicians and people who are ambivilent about the humanity of their children. Parents who love their children do not attempt to obfuscate their identity with clinical terms.
posted by bevets at 6:21 AM on July 30, 2005
i unfortunately lack the artistic skill, but someone really needs to make a zombie rights comic called "umbert the undead". it could be about a poor zombie who is stuck in a coffin, unable to escape, with frame after frame of him, underground, talking about how nice it would be to not be buried anymore.
posted by bryak at 6:25 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by bryak at 6:25 AM on July 30, 2005
Children (and men) have rights, too.
Oh man, ha ha haha, whew, damn that's hilarious. Where's your tip jar?
posted by tr33hggr at 6:41 AM on July 30, 2005
Oh man, ha ha haha, whew, damn that's hilarious. Where's your tip jar?
posted by tr33hggr at 6:41 AM on July 30, 2005
i'm kind of interested where a comic with the same scene, character, and set-up in every frame can really go for 80 strips.
A little superfetation and suddenly you've got Umbert's wacky younger twin Oliver.
posted by pracowity at 6:42 AM on July 30, 2005
A little superfetation and suddenly you've got Umbert's wacky younger twin Oliver.
posted by pracowity at 6:42 AM on July 30, 2005
'Fetus' is a clinical term. It is used by clinicians and people who are ambivilent about the humanity of their children. Parents who love their children do not attempt to obfuscate their identity with clinical terms.
Doubleplusungood. People who are objective use a term that isn't created to exploit the intellectual shortcomings of people. "Unborn" is a propaganda term coined to raise the hackles of fat ladies with Precious Moments figurines and a painting of Jesus in a nightie.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:56 AM on July 30, 2005
Doubleplusungood. People who are objective use a term that isn't created to exploit the intellectual shortcomings of people. "Unborn" is a propaganda term coined to raise the hackles of fat ladies with Precious Moments figurines and a painting of Jesus in a nightie.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:56 AM on July 30, 2005
Always with the Orwellian "unborn."
As bryak alludes to, it would be more Orwellian if it weren't the direct counterpart to "undead."
I wonder if they're the zombie kind of unlife, or the lycanthropic or vampiric varieties. I suppose they're closest to vampiric -- live on another's blood, can't stand sunlight, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on July 30, 2005
As bryak alludes to, it would be more Orwellian if it weren't the direct counterpart to "undead."
I wonder if they're the zombie kind of unlife, or the lycanthropic or vampiric varieties. I suppose they're closest to vampiric -- live on another's blood, can't stand sunlight, etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on July 30, 2005
Curley, talking to the bevets is feeding it. If metafilter is a boring place where he has no fun, bevets might go away.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:04 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:04 AM on July 30, 2005
what themadjuggler said.
_________________
Children (and men) have rights, too.
you forgot spermatozoa -- they have rights, too.
those who whine about the tragedy of the oppressed white man are among the funniest people on earth -- the dictatorship of lesbian Buddhist black women has gone on for millennia now
posted by matteo at 7:22 AM on July 30, 2005
_________________
Children (and men) have rights, too.
you forgot spermatozoa -- they have rights, too.
those who whine about the tragedy of the oppressed white man are among the funniest people on earth -- the dictatorship of lesbian Buddhist black women has gone on for millennia now
posted by matteo at 7:22 AM on July 30, 2005
I await the introduction of ancillary character Larry the Coathanger, once roe v. wade is overturned.
posted by wakko at 7:29 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by wakko at 7:29 AM on July 30, 2005
I didn't "who whine about the tragedy of the oppressed white man."
I said that men (not white men) and children have rights, too.
And they do.
I didn't argue that anybody's rights should be diminished. You just made that up.
Get the chip off your shoulder and develop the ability to actually hear what others say.
posted by Shouting at 7:39 AM on July 30, 2005
I said that men (not white men) and children have rights, too.
And they do.
I didn't argue that anybody's rights should be diminished. You just made that up.
Get the chip off your shoulder and develop the ability to actually hear what others say.
posted by Shouting at 7:39 AM on July 30, 2005
Unborn" is a propaganda term
I thought that was "preborn".
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:41 AM on July 30, 2005
I thought that was "preborn".
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:41 AM on July 30, 2005
shouting, matteo didn't accuse you of anything. looking mighty defensive there, eh, chief?
posted by paul_smatatoes at 7:51 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by paul_smatatoes at 7:51 AM on July 30, 2005
who says I'm not viable?
God. You know, the one who didn't create you fully formed.
posted by three blind mice at 8:18 AM on July 30, 2005
God. You know, the one who didn't create you fully formed.
posted by three blind mice at 8:18 AM on July 30, 2005
I love that he has a camo background in that strip, Armitage.
posted by piers at 8:22 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by piers at 8:22 AM on July 30, 2005
Armitage:
That jingoistic strip is nauseating. All I can think of is Stewie on "The Family Guy": a trapped little alien spouting anthropomorphic nonsense.
Coming soon:
"Billy the Blastocyte"
"Pinky the Plucky Spermatazoan"
"Andrew the Allele"
"Corky the Deoxyribonucleic Helix"
Talk about infinite regress. . .
posted by rdone at 8:36 AM on July 30, 2005
That jingoistic strip is nauseating. All I can think of is Stewie on "The Family Guy": a trapped little alien spouting anthropomorphic nonsense.
Coming soon:
"Billy the Blastocyte"
"Pinky the Plucky Spermatazoan"
"Andrew the Allele"
"Corky the Deoxyribonucleic Helix"
Talk about infinite regress. . .
posted by rdone at 8:36 AM on July 30, 2005
It's not "jingoism." It's good old fashioned patriotism.
The cartoonist does a very good job of presenting it.
In the U.S., if a man fathers a child, even without his consent or knowledge, he is liable for the financial support of that child until the age of 21. Many men have been imprisoned, and lost their property for failing to support children they didn't even want.
Why, exactly, should men be hounded throughout their lives for fathering an unwanted child, when women are simply let off scot free? Why shouldn't women be held to the same standard of responsibility that we expect of men?
On the other side, many men have been deprived of children they wanted by women who unilaterally aborted their unborn child.
Men, and children have rights, too.
I hope the author of Umbert keeps up the fight. As you can see from this thread, he (or she) will face endless ridicule, hatred and spite from the opposition. It's a fight worth fighting.
Here's to the day that Roe v. Wade is finally overturned!
posted by Shouting at 8:46 AM on July 30, 2005
The cartoonist does a very good job of presenting it.
In the U.S., if a man fathers a child, even without his consent or knowledge, he is liable for the financial support of that child until the age of 21. Many men have been imprisoned, and lost their property for failing to support children they didn't even want.
Why, exactly, should men be hounded throughout their lives for fathering an unwanted child, when women are simply let off scot free? Why shouldn't women be held to the same standard of responsibility that we expect of men?
On the other side, many men have been deprived of children they wanted by women who unilaterally aborted their unborn child.
Men, and children have rights, too.
I hope the author of Umbert keeps up the fight. As you can see from this thread, he (or she) will face endless ridicule, hatred and spite from the opposition. It's a fight worth fighting.
Here's to the day that Roe v. Wade is finally overturned!
posted by Shouting at 8:46 AM on July 30, 2005
'Fetus' is a clinical term. It is used by clinicians and people who are ambivilent about the humanity of their children. Parents who love their children do not attempt to obfuscate their identity with clinical terms.
rdone
All I can think of is Stewie on "The Family Guy": a trapped little alien spouting anthropomorphic nonsense.
Coming soon:
"Billy the Blastocyte"
"Pinky the Plucky Spermatazoan"
"Andrew the Allele"
"Corky the Deoxyribonucleic Helix"
Talk about infinite regress. . .
The regress is finite. A person begins at conception.
murder: killing an innocent person when you have the ability not to kill that person.
person: someone with unique human chromosomes that will continue to grow if provided with nutrition and protection. The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.
child: a person with 2 parents
abortion = child murder
Victims? Don't be melodramatic. Look down there. Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you 20,000 pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money? Or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? Free of income tax, old man, free of income tax. The only way you can save money nowadays. ~ Harry Lime
posted by bevets at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2005
rdone
All I can think of is Stewie on "The Family Guy": a trapped little alien spouting anthropomorphic nonsense.
Coming soon:
"Billy the Blastocyte"
"Pinky the Plucky Spermatazoan"
"Andrew the Allele"
"Corky the Deoxyribonucleic Helix"
Talk about infinite regress. . .
The regress is finite. A person begins at conception.
murder: killing an innocent person when you have the ability not to kill that person.
person: someone with unique human chromosomes that will continue to grow if provided with nutrition and protection. The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.
child: a person with 2 parents
abortion = child murder
Victims? Don't be melodramatic. Look down there. Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you 20,000 pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money? Or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? Free of income tax, old man, free of income tax. The only way you can save money nowadays. ~ Harry Lime
posted by bevets at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2005
Wow, the Internet really does give everyone the opportunity to suck.
posted by petrilli at 8:48 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by petrilli at 8:48 AM on July 30, 2005
If I had an ounce of drawing talent, I would satire this strip in a moment. Larry the post-Roe V. Wade coathanger would be my favorite character. Well, him and Lisa the Lysol Bottle.
(Is it wrong that I squealed a little with joy, clutched my hands to my chest and sighed "Bevets is here! Now it's really and abortion thread!" Yes? Right then.)
posted by kalimac at 8:52 AM on July 30, 2005
(Is it wrong that I squealed a little with joy, clutched my hands to my chest and sighed "Bevets is here! Now it's really and abortion thread!" Yes? Right then.)
posted by kalimac at 8:52 AM on July 30, 2005
bevets, my dear:
We have an enormous moral problem in this world caring for the *born* children: little screaming Iraqi girls whose parents have just been shot down by US soldiers. Starving children in Niger. Starving children in Darfur. Starving children in your home town of Anytown, USA. . . .
Please excuse me if I care more about the born than the unborn. Fetishizing blastocytes is not the highest and best use of my moral sensibilities. I hope you expend as much spiritual capital seeing to the welfare of actual, breathing children as you apparently do on behalf of potential members of the citizenry.
posted by rdone at 9:17 AM on July 30, 2005
We have an enormous moral problem in this world caring for the *born* children: little screaming Iraqi girls whose parents have just been shot down by US soldiers. Starving children in Niger. Starving children in Darfur. Starving children in your home town of Anytown, USA. . . .
Please excuse me if I care more about the born than the unborn. Fetishizing blastocytes is not the highest and best use of my moral sensibilities. I hope you expend as much spiritual capital seeing to the welfare of actual, breathing children as you apparently do on behalf of potential members of the citizenry.
posted by rdone at 9:17 AM on July 30, 2005
This is silly: "child: a person with 2 parents." What is a child being raised in a single parent household, then? I guess you'd probably call them a "bastard." Tip o' the hat to compassionate conservatism then. Meh.
posted by moonbird at 9:23 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by moonbird at 9:23 AM on July 30, 2005
person: someone with unique human chromosomes
I always suspected identical twins weren't REAL people.
posted by signal at 9:48 AM on July 30, 2005
I always suspected identical twins weren't REAL people.
posted by signal at 9:48 AM on July 30, 2005
"Unborn" is a propaganda term coined to raise the hackles of fat ladies with Precious Moments figurines and a painting of Jesus in a nightie.
But that's the target market. Cletus the Fetus wouldn't sell to them, which would rather miss the entire point, eh?
A person begins at conception.
LOL!
God aborts most people, then. Between blastocytes that don't implant and embryos that are miscarried, it's actually pretty unlikely that conception will lead to birth.
Most natural abortions take place within the first trimester, and so do most medical abortions. If God's okay with the former, I'm okay with the latter!
God promoted the slaying of entire tribes back in ye goode olde testamental days. Hell, He offed almost the entire human race at one point! The loss of a cluster of parasitic cells must certainly be no big deal to Him.
Unclench, bevets. Abortion has always been a fact of human existence and always will be. It is impossible to stop it. All we as decent people can do is make sure it's as safe as possible.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:52 AM on July 30, 2005
But that's the target market. Cletus the Fetus wouldn't sell to them, which would rather miss the entire point, eh?
A person begins at conception.
LOL!
God aborts most people, then. Between blastocytes that don't implant and embryos that are miscarried, it's actually pretty unlikely that conception will lead to birth.
Most natural abortions take place within the first trimester, and so do most medical abortions. If God's okay with the former, I'm okay with the latter!
God promoted the slaying of entire tribes back in ye goode olde testamental days. Hell, He offed almost the entire human race at one point! The loss of a cluster of parasitic cells must certainly be no big deal to Him.
Unclench, bevets. Abortion has always been a fact of human existence and always will be. It is impossible to stop it. All we as decent people can do is make sure it's as safe as possible.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:52 AM on July 30, 2005
Oh, and way to preemptively dehumanize clones. Never to early to start defining an underclass.
posted by signal at 9:53 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by signal at 9:53 AM on July 30, 2005
Another interesting point point of "person: someone with unique human chromosomes" is that the moment somebody is cloned, they lose their human status (as they're not unique anymore), so, by Bevet's definition it's alright to kill them.
posted by signal at 9:57 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by signal at 9:57 AM on July 30, 2005
I can't wait to see his heretofore unintroduced twin sister, Patty the Preborn.
posted by SisterHavana at 10:28 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by SisterHavana at 10:28 AM on July 30, 2005
Personally, I believe that an abortion is the greatest gift a mother can give their unborn fetus.
Unborn children are innocent.
The innocent spend eternity in heaven.
As such, an abortion is a parent's way to guarantee their child a life of eternal bliss.
posted by mosch at 10:31 AM on July 30, 2005
Unborn children are innocent.
The innocent spend eternity in heaven.
As such, an abortion is a parent's way to guarantee their child a life of eternal bliss.
posted by mosch at 10:31 AM on July 30, 2005
Most natural abortions take place within the first trimester, and so do most medical abortions. If God's okay with the former, I'm okay with the latter!
Everyone dies, eventually, and sometimes people are murdered. If God's okay with the former, I'm okay with the latter!
posted by Kwantsar at 10:36 AM on July 30, 2005
Everyone dies, eventually, and sometimes people are murdered. If God's okay with the former, I'm okay with the latter!
posted by Kwantsar at 10:36 AM on July 30, 2005
As such, an abortion is a parent's way to guarantee their child a life of eternal bliss.
This is actually basically the argument that Augustine gives in his "City of God" for celebrating infant deaths- there's no chance for them to sin! They HAVE to go to heaven!
It creeps the hell out of me, personally.
posted by 235w103 at 10:47 AM on July 30, 2005
Oooh, you got me there, kwantsar, addressing my deliberately facetious argument against bevet's sincere but stupid argument with your very own bit of doggeral!
posted by five fresh fish at 10:49 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by five fresh fish at 10:49 AM on July 30, 2005
Umbert sounds like a miniboss in a bad Nintendo game.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 11:12 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 11:12 AM on July 30, 2005
Five Fresh is right to question why we've bought into the propaganda that god is anti-choice. Women have been preventing, avoiding and aborting pregnancies for centuries, sometimes safely, many times not. I bet girls of Jesus' day knew which wise old crone to visit to get the right herbs or whatever they did back then. If it was so damn important to god, why no real mention in the bible? Why doesn't it rate it's own commandment?, rather than fitting under than umbrella (with all those holes) of not killing? except animals, in wars, murderers, when god says it's ok, to prevent something really bad from happening, if someone trespasses, revenge, etc.
posted by tula at 11:12 AM on July 30, 2005
posted by tula at 11:12 AM on July 30, 2005
I am sad that this thread has no tags.
They surely would have been quite amusing.
posted by voltairemodern at 11:17 AM on July 30, 2005
They surely would have been quite amusing.
posted by voltairemodern at 11:17 AM on July 30, 2005
If God's okay with the former, I'm okay with the latter!
we knew that already, aren't you pro-IraqAttaq?
posted by matteo at 11:18 AM on July 30, 2005
we knew that already, aren't you pro-IraqAttaq?
posted by matteo at 11:18 AM on July 30, 2005
Uh, I'm pregnant and I still call it a "fetus"... not my "unborn" (which sounds creepy). I'm not unloving or ambivalent about his or her humanity. I do have to live with the fact that it could still die any day inside of me and there's not really a thing I can do about it anyway, whether it's a cord accident or placenta abruptio or something else. I didn't truly realize until I was pregnant the myriad of things that can go wrong and prevent you from seeing it through to the end whether you like it or not. Poor Umbert - he'd better watch out lest the placenta that sustains him separates from the uterine wall!
This comic strip is just so obvious about its "message" - which is why it's really not that good. I'd prefer to read something actually built with creativity and not just this very apparent goal of "I have to get my message out there".
Oh yeah, and I'm still pro-choice (gasp). bevets et. al., stay the fuck out of my womb.
posted by bdragon at 11:24 AM on July 30, 2005
This comic strip is just so obvious about its "message" - which is why it's really not that good. I'd prefer to read something actually built with creativity and not just this very apparent goal of "I have to get my message out there".
Oh yeah, and I'm still pro-choice (gasp). bevets et. al., stay the fuck out of my womb.
posted by bdragon at 11:24 AM on July 30, 2005
This is actually basically the argument that Augustine gives in his "City of God" for celebrating infant deaths- there's no chance for them to sin! They HAVE to go to heaven!
It creeps the hell out of me, personally.
I'm curious - where in ecclesiastical dogma does Dante's limbo fit in - all those babies who died before they were baptized, a lapse that keeps them out of heaven? Scare tactics from the church to encourage parish registration? Or just some cardinal who hated kids?
Regardless, I'm glad I gave birth before seeing this "comic." Envisioning a little jingoistic Umbert squirming inside me would have creeped me right the fuck out. Even the Giger-esqe creatures my mind created on my worst days were more comforting.
posted by bibliowench at 11:32 AM on July 30, 2005
The strip that Armitage linked to really turned my stomach. Ignoring the fact that Umbert, if and when he's born, will face a world made far more dangerous by (the orders given to) Uncle Bob and his buddies, the moral myopia exhibited by most on this issue is stunning. God save a goddamn blastocyst, but screw the living innocent in those "far away places."
Take every penny you're spending and every tear you're shedding and every sermon you're bleating on behalf of that "culture of life" and dedicate it to alleviating poverty and war and the otherwise-easily preventable deaths of living children, and then I'll start buying your CoL bullshit. Until then, I'll treat it like it is: transparent pandering.
(bdragon: congrats and good luck!)
posted by joe lisboa at 11:37 AM on July 30, 2005
Take every penny you're spending and every tear you're shedding and every sermon you're bleating on behalf of that "culture of life" and dedicate it to alleviating poverty and war and the otherwise-easily preventable deaths of living children, and then I'll start buying your CoL bullshit. Until then, I'll treat it like it is: transparent pandering.
(bdragon: congrats and good luck!)
posted by joe lisboa at 11:37 AM on July 30, 2005
A person begins at conception.
I know that I am just feeding a troll here, but I can't help myself. A "person" begins when consciousness arises. If consciousness never arises, no person exists. I'd be willing to grant a pink lawn flamingo personhood if it demonstrably possessed consciousness.
murder: killing an innocent person when you have the ability not to kill that person.
Bevets, you filthy fucking murderer. All of those innocent people that you have let starve to death (some as I type these words) when it is within your power to prevent it. You fucking bastard.
posted by Chasuk at 12:28 PM on July 30, 2005
I know that I am just feeding a troll here, but I can't help myself. A "person" begins when consciousness arises. If consciousness never arises, no person exists. I'd be willing to grant a pink lawn flamingo personhood if it demonstrably possessed consciousness.
murder: killing an innocent person when you have the ability not to kill that person.
Bevets, you filthy fucking murderer. All of those innocent people that you have let starve to death (some as I type these words) when it is within your power to prevent it. You fucking bastard.
posted by Chasuk at 12:28 PM on July 30, 2005
Heh, sent this link to a friend, and he said: the name makes me think all "Umbert Umbert, the Fetus Fucker" (he then clarified that Umbert Umbert has a thing for embryos).
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 12:32 PM on July 30, 2005
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 12:32 PM on July 30, 2005
Umbert, Lolita, Kubrick.... the starchild?
posted by funambulist at 1:15 PM on July 30, 2005
posted by funambulist at 1:15 PM on July 30, 2005
Seriously, there's something noticeably absent from that picture. Now fetuses don't just behave like teenagers who whine about being misunderstood and wish they were already in college, they also float around in some unspecified container, might as well be Tupperware.
Or, indeed, the space between galaxies.
posted by funambulist at 1:17 PM on July 30, 2005
Or, indeed, the space between galaxies.
posted by funambulist at 1:17 PM on July 30, 2005
Unclench, five fresh fish. Murder has always been a fact of human existence and always will be. It is impossible to stop it. All we as decent people can do is make sure it's as safe as possible.
posted by bevets at 1:19 PM on July 30, 2005
posted by bevets at 1:19 PM on July 30, 2005
If Umbert's unborn because he's living pre-birth, would that make me undead?
posted by ToasT at 1:29 PM on July 30, 2005
posted by ToasT at 1:29 PM on July 30, 2005
I know that I am just feeding a troll here, but I can't help myself. A "person" begins when consciousness arises. If consciousness never arises, no person exists.
Wow, thats a really easy thing to test for...
posted by delmoi at 1:42 PM on July 30, 2005
Wow, thats a really easy thing to test for...
posted by delmoi at 1:42 PM on July 30, 2005
Another interesting point point of "person: someone with unique human chromosomes" is that the moment somebody is cloned, they lose their human status (as they're not unique anymore), so, by Bevet's definition it's alright to kill them.
But is it alright to kill their fetuses?
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:16 PM on July 30, 2005
But is it alright to kill their fetuses?
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:16 PM on July 30, 2005
Clearly, dictionary.com is trying to justify killing people.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=person
I <3 bevets.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:24 PM on July 30, 2005
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=person
I <3 bevets.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:24 PM on July 30, 2005
Wow, thats a really easy thing to test for...
My sarcasm detector has been on the blink recently, so I don't know whether sarcasm was intended here. However, as it stands, consciousness doesn't have to be tested for, but merely the possibility of consciousness.
Consciousness or "mind" is a consequence of the anatomy and physiology of the brain. Further, mind begins in experience, as Kant demonstrated long ago in his "Critique of Pure Reason." A fetus does experience sensory input, but not of the type or duration that would allow consciousness to have arisen, at least within the meaning of being aware of being aware.
A fetus cannot be conscious. A fetus is a human animal, not a human being. I reserve the term "human being" for human animals in which consciousness has arisen. For the words "human being" substitute the word "person."
A fetus is no more of a person than is a Hereford, and, PETA objections aside, we legally kill millions of cows per year. If I morally objected to the killing of animals, period, then I would be a vegetarian, but that is another argument.
posted by Chasuk at 2:28 PM on July 30, 2005
My sarcasm detector has been on the blink recently, so I don't know whether sarcasm was intended here. However, as it stands, consciousness doesn't have to be tested for, but merely the possibility of consciousness.
Consciousness or "mind" is a consequence of the anatomy and physiology of the brain. Further, mind begins in experience, as Kant demonstrated long ago in his "Critique of Pure Reason." A fetus does experience sensory input, but not of the type or duration that would allow consciousness to have arisen, at least within the meaning of being aware of being aware.
A fetus cannot be conscious. A fetus is a human animal, not a human being. I reserve the term "human being" for human animals in which consciousness has arisen. For the words "human being" substitute the word "person."
A fetus is no more of a person than is a Hereford, and, PETA objections aside, we legally kill millions of cows per year. If I morally objected to the killing of animals, period, then I would be a vegetarian, but that is another argument.
posted by Chasuk at 2:28 PM on July 30, 2005
To bring a certain amount of light on the other options for Umbert, I bring you Hank, the dancing Abortion.
I'd rather have Hank around than Umbert any day.
posted by Hactar at 3:34 PM on July 30, 2005
I'd rather have Hank around than Umbert any day.
posted by Hactar at 3:34 PM on July 30, 2005
Murder has always been a fact of human existence and always will be. It is impossible to stop it. All we as decent people can do is make sure it's as safe as possible.
This explains your support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
posted by mosch at 5:14 PM on July 30, 2005
This explains your support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
posted by mosch at 5:14 PM on July 30, 2005
What bdragon said.
And I'm carrying around two of those fetuses myself right now.
posted by OhPuhLeez at 10:01 PM on July 30, 2005
And I'm carrying around two of those fetuses myself right now.
posted by OhPuhLeez at 10:01 PM on July 30, 2005
I've got a fetus in a snowglobe. When you shake it, it plays What Child Is This, but with a polka beat.
It's quite the conversation piece.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:15 PM on July 30, 2005
It's quite the conversation piece.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:15 PM on July 30, 2005
Y'all are forgetting Freddie the Floating Foetus from this superb comic.
And I'd sure like to know who bevets and Shouting think they're convincing. If anything, I'm more pro-choice after reading their comments.
posted by hifiparasol at 12:06 AM on July 31, 2005
And I'd sure like to know who bevets and Shouting think they're convincing. If anything, I'm more pro-choice after reading their comments.
posted by hifiparasol at 12:06 AM on July 31, 2005
I've got a fetus in a snowglobe. When you shake it, it plays What Child Is This, but with a polka beat.
This is, without a doubt, the funniest thing I've seen in days. Thanks, fff.
posted by leftcoastbob at 6:53 AM on July 31, 2005
This is, without a doubt, the funniest thing I've seen in days. Thanks, fff.
posted by leftcoastbob at 6:53 AM on July 31, 2005
hifiparasol
And I'd sure like to know who bevets and Shouting think they're convincing. If anything, I'm more pro-choice after reading their comments.
Typical pro abortion sentiment: COMPLETELY void of substance.
LA LA LA LA LA LA ABORTION IS GREAT LA LA LA LA LA LA LEAVE ME ALONE LA LA LA LA LA ABORTION IS GREAT LA LA LA LA LA LA
posted by bevets at 7:05 AM on July 31, 2005
And I'd sure like to know who bevets and Shouting think they're convincing. If anything, I'm more pro-choice after reading their comments.
Typical pro abortion sentiment: COMPLETELY void of substance.
LA LA LA LA LA LA ABORTION IS GREAT LA LA LA LA LA LA LEAVE ME ALONE LA LA LA LA LA ABORTION IS GREAT LA LA LA LA LA LA
posted by bevets at 7:05 AM on July 31, 2005
child: a person with 2 parents
Wonderful. I'm sure every child of a single parent or of divorced & remarried parents is so glad to know that you don't count them as a person. Very compassionate and inclusive of you. Way to go with the blaming kids for something completely beyond their control. Teriffic.
posted by raedyn at 7:18 AM on July 31, 2005
Wonderful. I'm sure every child of a single parent or of divorced & remarried parents is so glad to know that you don't count them as a person. Very compassionate and inclusive of you. Way to go with the blaming kids for something completely beyond their control. Teriffic.
posted by raedyn at 7:18 AM on July 31, 2005
I like how bevets chooses that one post to pick on, while completely ignoring the like 25 others that critique his “logic”.
Advice: putting something in all caps doesn’t lend any force to your “argument”.
posted by signal at 9:23 AM on July 31, 2005
Advice: putting something in all caps doesn’t lend any force to your “argument”.
posted by signal at 9:23 AM on July 31, 2005
Hey, it appears that Bevets may have made the news!
posted by five fresh fish at 10:08 AM on July 31, 2005
posted by five fresh fish at 10:08 AM on July 31, 2005
Bevets: I am undone by the sheer juggernaut force of your all-in-caps dissertation. Clearly you have revealed to me the true nature of our conflict, wherein my own comments are devoid of substance and yours contain the words "LA LA LA LA LA." O Fortuna! O Merciless Fate! Why have you abandoned me in the face of such a lyric and flawless deluge of argumentation!
Signal, you've got a good point. The reason my comment was a bit more on the snarky side and a bit less on the analytical side is because I really don't belive any logical argument or reasoned refutation will have the slightest impact on either of the posters I mentioned.
posted by hifiparasol at 12:34 PM on July 31, 2005
Signal, you've got a good point. The reason my comment was a bit more on the snarky side and a bit less on the analytical side is because I really don't belive any logical argument or reasoned refutation will have the slightest impact on either of the posters I mentioned.
posted by hifiparasol at 12:34 PM on July 31, 2005
I don't know about you guys, but I really want to kill little Umbert right now.
posted by fungible at 1:39 PM on July 31, 2005
posted by fungible at 1:39 PM on July 31, 2005
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posted by wakko at 2:41 AM on July 30, 2005