We need space!
September 3, 2005 8:39 AM Subscribe
Houston is opening more relief centers for the survivors of Katrina. In the meantime, Joel Osteen, the leader of Joel Osteen Ministries and the mega-church Lakewood Church in Houston is funding meals at the Astrodome.
Lakewood Church services are held at the old Houston Rockets arena and draws crowds of up to capacity of 16,000 people.
I do appreciate his funding meals, but wouldn't this space be useful in housing the displaced people from the hurricane? Or is he more concerned with using the arena to rake in the bucks from his services?
Should we end each metafilter post with a leading question? Or should we not do it because it has become a tired cliche that doesn't really encourage discussion and may lead to lip cancer?
posted by mecran01 at 8:48 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by mecran01 at 8:48 AM on September 3, 2005
Couldn't you be down there helping rescue people, or distribute aid, instead of posting on MetaFilter?
posted by mosch at 8:48 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by mosch at 8:48 AM on September 3, 2005
I THINK HE IS MORE CONCERNED WITH RAKING IN BUCKS.. BECAUSE CHRISTIANS ARE JUST LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW.
Joel Osteen can do no right. What a self serving mofo he is.
posted by foot at 8:52 AM on September 3, 2005
Joel Osteen can do no right. What a self serving mofo he is.
posted by foot at 8:52 AM on September 3, 2005
I'm just saying the people need the space. There aren't very many huge buildings out there that could house large numbers of people. And Mosch, what have you done? I've donated money, food, clothes and diapers. You? I'm not about to apologize for the fact that I can't physically get to the Gulf Coast, but I would if I could.
posted by Jade5454 at 8:53 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by Jade5454 at 8:53 AM on September 3, 2005
About all I can say as a Houstonian is ... no one's asking these questions down here at the present moment. We're too busy. Thanks.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:55 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:55 AM on September 3, 2005
I'm sorry, I didn't realize disasters were really covers for charity dick-measuring.
posted by chrominance at 8:56 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by chrominance at 8:56 AM on September 3, 2005
...that's "thanks" to mean "do we really have to have a new post every time someone thinks of a new angle with which to slam their favorite target" rather than "thanks for all your help and insight". Just to be clear.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:57 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:57 AM on September 3, 2005
"You! Person who is spending thousands and thousands of dollars to do something good! You! Stop that and do something I think is better!"
Did it ever occur to you that without the money he rakes in at those services he wouldn't be able to afford to feed the people in the Astrodome? The guy isn't obligated to help at all, doing one huge thing shouldn't bring him under fire for not doing some other huge thing instead or in addition to it.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:58 AM on September 3, 2005
Did it ever occur to you that without the money he rakes in at those services he wouldn't be able to afford to feed the people in the Astrodome? The guy isn't obligated to help at all, doing one huge thing shouldn't bring him under fire for not doing some other huge thing instead or in addition to it.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:58 AM on September 3, 2005
I help by paying federal taxes that fund FEMA. Thusly proven, can I go ahead and say this post is lame?
posted by thirteenkiller at 8:58 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by thirteenkiller at 8:58 AM on September 3, 2005
Umm... yeah. Can't we put a stop to our regularly scheduled religious battles for a little while? I dunno who that dude is, but if he and his paritioners are feeding people and whatnot, then they're ok with me...
posted by ph00dz at 8:59 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by ph00dz at 8:59 AM on September 3, 2005
Listen, I am as skeptical of evangelists as can be, but when I see them step up to the plate and actually carry out the mission that true Christianity entails, I'm not inclined to criticize.
There is a lot of ill done in the name of God, but holding church services and feeding evacuees doesn't fit under that category.
posted by Miko at 9:02 AM on September 3, 2005
There is a lot of ill done in the name of God, but holding church services and feeding evacuees doesn't fit under that category.
posted by Miko at 9:02 AM on September 3, 2005
I've donated money, food, clothes and diapers.
We appreciate your financial and material contributions, but wouldn't your physical assistance be more valuable? Or are you more concerned with maintaining your personal comfort while presenting the appearance of charity?
posted by Bugbread at 9:15 AM on September 3, 2005
We appreciate your financial and material contributions, but wouldn't your physical assistance be more valuable? Or are you more concerned with maintaining your personal comfort while presenting the appearance of charity?
posted by Bugbread at 9:15 AM on September 3, 2005
I think Jade5454 has a good point. Even here in San Antonio we're getting people who can't find space in Houston. And I don't see John Hagee (Cornerstone Church, seats about a billion, or for that matter the "Methodrome," or the giant Baptist church on NW Military Dr...I could go on and on....there are LOTS of humungo churches here) offering any of his pews for the needy. Though I'm sure he's sending little diapers stamped with crosses, or something.
Right now I think refugees are getting stuffed into old Kelly AFB faciliies, many of which of which don't have A/C or other basics (and yes, A/C is a necessity here). I think they DID manage to find somewhere with at least cool air, though, eventually.
And bugbread, didn't Jade say she made donations BECAUSE she can't get to the coast?
Dry run for a terrorist attack, anyone? Not doing so well, are we.
Slightly O/T, isn' t the whole point of a FPP to generate discussion? As far as "editorializing,", do you REALLY want me to haul out my myriad of articles (from scholarly journals, no less!) about how NO ONE is truly "objective" and that the whole notion of "objectivity" was manufactured by the "scholarly elite"?
And now back to our regularly scheduled snark fest.
posted by MiHail at 9:22 AM on September 3, 2005
Right now I think refugees are getting stuffed into old Kelly AFB faciliies, many of which of which don't have A/C or other basics (and yes, A/C is a necessity here). I think they DID manage to find somewhere with at least cool air, though, eventually.
And bugbread, didn't Jade say she made donations BECAUSE she can't get to the coast?
Dry run for a terrorist attack, anyone? Not doing so well, are we.
Slightly O/T, isn' t the whole point of a FPP to generate discussion? As far as "editorializing,", do you REALLY want me to haul out my myriad of articles (from scholarly journals, no less!) about how NO ONE is truly "objective" and that the whole notion of "objectivity" was manufactured by the "scholarly elite"?
And now back to our regularly scheduled snark fest.
posted by MiHail at 9:22 AM on September 3, 2005
From what I've been seeing, Texas is doing a great job with 89,000+ evacuees and growing. Any and all help is help.
posted by zaack at 9:25 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by zaack at 9:25 AM on September 3, 2005
I don't like it, but our government is horrifyingly incapable of helping everyone--by design. They've cut too many budgets, and this is what happens--6 day waits to be rescued, and leaving the helping of people to "faith-based" orgs. Look at that donor list on the FEMA site.
posted by amberglow at 9:43 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by amberglow at 9:43 AM on September 3, 2005
some points
people are now asking what will happen to the people that have been moved from new Orleans to Houston and other points, there are reports that those cities are now having a myriad of problems including increases in crime
and what of the next tier people? meaning the tellers, waiters, pizza makers and others who live from paycheck to paycheck; they drove somewhere what will happen to them?
And how well are you prepared? Remember the power outage some years ago and how the system was going to be overhauled? Even if you think you are insulated from a natural disaster once the power grid goes down for a week or two you are in trouble. And lastly how successful do you think Bush will be in his next "request" for monies for Iraq?
posted by robbyrobs at 10:08 AM on September 3, 2005
people are now asking what will happen to the people that have been moved from new Orleans to Houston and other points, there are reports that those cities are now having a myriad of problems including increases in crime
and what of the next tier people? meaning the tellers, waiters, pizza makers and others who live from paycheck to paycheck; they drove somewhere what will happen to them?
And how well are you prepared? Remember the power outage some years ago and how the system was going to be overhauled? Even if you think you are insulated from a natural disaster once the power grid goes down for a week or two you are in trouble. And lastly how successful do you think Bush will be in his next "request" for monies for Iraq?
posted by robbyrobs at 10:08 AM on September 3, 2005
and what of the next tier people? meaning the tellers, waiters, pizza makers and others who live from paycheck to paycheck; they drove somewhere what will happen to them?
I've been hearing of many many thousands of people whose credit cards are maxed and they had to leave the hotels they went to, and are now making their way to shelters all over the region. Some might go to Texas, seeing as they're really stepping up to the plate.
posted by amberglow at 10:46 AM on September 3, 2005
I've been hearing of many many thousands of people whose credit cards are maxed and they had to leave the hotels they went to, and are now making their way to shelters all over the region. Some might go to Texas, seeing as they're really stepping up to the plate.
posted by amberglow at 10:46 AM on September 3, 2005
Now this is one Katrina post that never should have been made. Remind me not come to your aid Jade5454 if you're ever in any trouble, because maybe you don't approve of my politics or religion.
posted by blue shadows at 11:07 AM on September 3, 2005
posted by blue shadows at 11:07 AM on September 3, 2005
These churches may not have the human resources up front to handle taking care of that many people.
It would be foolish to offer space if you have no way to manage it and care for the people.
A lot of churches' view on it may be helping by supporting already existing ministries that are already set up to do things like this and are more experienced.
ie: instead of setting up their own homeless shelter, they support already existing well-run ones
posted by cinderful at 11:12 AM on September 3, 2005
It would be foolish to offer space if you have no way to manage it and care for the people.
A lot of churches' view on it may be helping by supporting already existing ministries that are already set up to do things like this and are more experienced.
ie: instead of setting up their own homeless shelter, they support already existing well-run ones
posted by cinderful at 11:12 AM on September 3, 2005
...wouldn't this space be useful in housing the displaced people from the hurricane?
For one thing, Lakewood Church installed fixed seating on the remodeled Rockets Arena basketball court, while the Astrodome's much larger open football field allows cots and family "camps" to be set up (more Astrodome images at Getty.)
Lakewood Church's food program expects to feed refugees three meals daily for the next thirty days. Donate time or money if you wish.
As might be expected, the Astrodome overcrowding problems as the New Orleans Superdome. Registration of refugees at the Astrodome and other shelters is being done by the local Red Cross:
...a Red Cross information Hotline number regarding locations of shelters is available for Hurricane Katrina victims. Call [the national] Red Cross 1-(866) GET-INFO. Due to the high demand, the Houston Chapter has opened a local phone bank to provide information on Houston Area Red Cross activities at 713-313-5480.
These aid workers are trying to make it happen right now, and it's a difficult job:
"The Astrodome was designed to have maybe 20,000 people for six hours at the most for something upon which they are all focused,' Yudofsky said. "To be there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for an indeterminate period of time, that experiment has never been run - and we are trying to do that right now.'
There are 15,000 people in there now: try to help them out.
posted by cenoxo at 12:04 PM on September 3, 2005
For one thing, Lakewood Church installed fixed seating on the remodeled Rockets Arena basketball court, while the Astrodome's much larger open football field allows cots and family "camps" to be set up (more Astrodome images at Getty.)
Lakewood Church's food program expects to feed refugees three meals daily for the next thirty days. Donate time or money if you wish.
As might be expected, the Astrodome overcrowding problems as the New Orleans Superdome. Registration of refugees at the Astrodome and other shelters is being done by the local Red Cross:
...a Red Cross information Hotline number regarding locations of shelters is available for Hurricane Katrina victims. Call [the national] Red Cross 1-(866) GET-INFO. Due to the high demand, the Houston Chapter has opened a local phone bank to provide information on Houston Area Red Cross activities at 713-313-5480.
These aid workers are trying to make it happen right now, and it's a difficult job:
"The Astrodome was designed to have maybe 20,000 people for six hours at the most for something upon which they are all focused,' Yudofsky said. "To be there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for an indeterminate period of time, that experiment has never been run - and we are trying to do that right now.'
There are 15,000 people in there now: try to help them out.
posted by cenoxo at 12:04 PM on September 3, 2005
...the Astrodome (note news links on their page) is starting to experience the same overcrowding problems as the New Orleans Superdome...
posted by cenoxo at 12:11 PM on September 3, 2005
posted by cenoxo at 12:11 PM on September 3, 2005
I've donated money, food, clothes and diapers.
Yes, but have you changed them?
posted by dhartung at 12:50 PM on September 3, 2005
Yes, but have you changed them?
posted by dhartung at 12:50 PM on September 3, 2005
there are reports that those cities are now having a myriad of problems including increases in crime
The following is info I got from work:
Yesterday the policy was that unless there is a criminal investigation, Texas agencies were not allowed to run criminal histories on evacuees. Apparently this became political because pressure came to bear and the FBI has agreed to let them do it now provided that it is related to the placement of children in housing. The upshot is if you have 14,999 adults and 1 child in the Astrodome, you can now run criminal history checks on all 14,999 adults. And rescue workers who would be working with children. And housing providers who will be accomodating a child.
So basically as long as a kid is involved, you can find out the criminal history and check for warrants, is my understanding. And there was much rejoicing.
posted by beth at 3:14 PM on September 3, 2005
The following is info I got from work:
Yesterday the policy was that unless there is a criminal investigation, Texas agencies were not allowed to run criminal histories on evacuees. Apparently this became political because pressure came to bear and the FBI has agreed to let them do it now provided that it is related to the placement of children in housing. The upshot is if you have 14,999 adults and 1 child in the Astrodome, you can now run criminal history checks on all 14,999 adults. And rescue workers who would be working with children. And housing providers who will be accomodating a child.
So basically as long as a kid is involved, you can find out the criminal history and check for warrants, is my understanding. And there was much rejoicing.
posted by beth at 3:14 PM on September 3, 2005
The Houston Chronicle reports (among other things) that crime is down city-wide this weekend.
posted by runtina at 5:29 PM on September 3, 2005
posted by runtina at 5:29 PM on September 3, 2005
MiHail : "Slightly O/T, isn' t the whole point of a FPP to generate discussion?"
No. It's to present an interesting link. Discussion is completely secondary.
posted by Bugbread at 12:19 AM on September 4, 2005
No. It's to present an interesting link. Discussion is completely secondary.
posted by Bugbread at 12:19 AM on September 4, 2005
« Older Hurricane Katrina - BBC | The Matrix shatters in New Orleans Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Ironmouth at 8:44 AM on September 3, 2005