Just a young boy, under the influence of drugs, who killed his entire family with an axe.
January 20, 2006 6:33 PM   Subscribe

Reefer Madness Redux. One man's story about how cannabis will RUIN YOUR LIFE. Despite the fact that there's, you know, tons of scientific evidence to the contrary.
posted by borkingchikapa (70 comments total)
 
I know every time I smoke a joint I feel like axe murdering a... woah, man, are those fritos?
posted by zerolives at 6:45 PM on January 20, 2006


..smoke weed every day

Seriously though, some people handle alcohol either...
posted by kuatto at 6:48 PM on January 20, 2006


err, *can't*
/high
posted by kuatto at 6:48 PM on January 20, 2006


But at university he went wild, spending around £5,000 in one year on cannabis, much of it on "skunk weed" - a particularly potent variety of the drug, that's between 10 to 30 times stronger than ordinary cannabis. It had literally blown his mind.

Okay. Let's see. Cannabis might not be the problem. Spending £5000 pounds a year might be. I don't know, but the worst pot-heads I know probably spend 5% of that a year. If he was spending £5000 on bourbon a year, would it make the papers?
posted by Jimbob at 6:51 PM on January 20, 2006


This wouldn't be an FPP if the father in the article was talking about alcohol. Who has the problem?
posted by fire&wings at 6:54 PM on January 20, 2006


Some experts claim that for many younger people who have "drug induced psychosis", like my son, this sort of mental illness would have happened anyway. That is total rubbish. He was a perfectly normal boy, until this happened.

Translation: I'm really upset about my childs mental illness and I want to blame it on something external.
posted by anansi at 6:54 PM on January 20, 2006


I seem to spend most of my money on ditch weed.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:55 PM on January 20, 2006


Perhaps the lingo has changed (who here has bought a "lid", eh?) but back when I spent not nearly as much as this person, "skunk weed" just meant it was stinky ... not necessarily potent.
posted by WolfDaddy at 7:03 PM on January 20, 2006


Poor guy, his kid is very sick and he needs something to blame. But I am surprised that the BBC printed such nonsense.
posted by LarryC at 7:03 PM on January 20, 2006


"skunk weed" just meant it was stinky ... not necessarily potent.

I don't know about the UK, but here in Australia "skunk" (especially "SuperSkunk") does refer to potent weed. However, all weed these days is potent. Buying "skunk" here would mean it's, maybe, 50% more potent than normal buds, not 10-30 times more potent. Maybe he means it's 30 times more potent than smoking the leaves. Hmm.
posted by Jimbob at 7:07 PM on January 20, 2006


Sounds like this kid had a severe mental illness and used pot to self medicate. I'm no expert on the subject, but I believe that it is pretty common for people with severe mental illnesses to use any kind of drug they can get a hold of - alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, caffeine - to exert some kind of control over their emotional state. And who can begrudge them that?
posted by rks404 at 7:08 PM on January 20, 2006


Wait, so his kid went to college and became a different person in the process? That's crazy.
posted by jahmoon at 7:11 PM on January 20, 2006


So he A) smoked prodigious amount of ganja, and B) was mentally ill. Now someone please point out to me where they demonstrated that A was the cause of B, as opposed to, oh, I don't know, B being an attempt to cope with A, maybe?
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:12 PM on January 20, 2006


Arrgh! "A being an attempt to cope with B", rather.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:13 PM on January 20, 2006


George_Spiggott writes "Now someone please point out to me where they demonstrated that A was the cause of B, as opposed to, oh, I don't know, B being an attempt to cope with A, maybe?"

Recent research has identified marijuana use in adolescents as an independant risk factor for psychosis. The risk is small, but it's indisputable. Here's a review of the research published last year in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, for those of you who might have access.

Teenagers, expecially those with a family history of mental illness, should probably avoid pot.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:15 PM on January 20, 2006


Teenagers, expecially those with a family history of mental illness, should probably avoid pot.

That would be easier if (a) society was able to cope with mental illness in general and talk about it instead of sweeping it under the rug, and (b) realistic and sensible information about pot was provided to the public. If the only reason they can find to keep cannabis illegal is that there is a "small, indisputable risk"...well, they lose the argument, given the huge risks associated with the drugs that are legal.
posted by Jimbob at 7:20 PM on January 20, 2006


Wonder if this guy tried taking his son down the pub for a few pints, you know, to set him on the straight and narrow. Become a decent member of society.
posted by Jimbob at 7:21 PM on January 20, 2006


The debate is still raging over whether heavy cannabis use causes psychosis or triggers the predisposition.
posted by Gyan at 7:23 PM on January 20, 2006


Gyan writes "The debate is still raging over whether heavy cannabis use causes psychosis or triggers the predisposition."

This is true: it's definitely an open question. In the context of the comments made in this thread, however, I think it's important to keep in mind that serious researchers suspect that there may in fact be a relationship: it's not an absurd thing for the father to conclude. Certainly not at the level of "Reefer Madness", as the poster suggests.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:28 PM on January 20, 2006


Fascinating links, Gyan, but to go by the summary, the second link doesn't imply a "trigger", or any other causal relationship; it suggests, as far as I can see, that an aspect of brain physiology implicated in schizophrenia may also be involved in cannabis use, not that the one influences the other.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:29 PM on January 20, 2006


George_Spiggot: the second link doesn't imply a "trigger"

Yeah, wrong link.

My guess is that given the small association, cannabis use causes schizophrenia, only in those whose brains express some particular trait i.e. predisposition.
posted by Gyan at 7:54 PM on January 20, 2006


Oddly enough alcohol has made virtual zombies of millions -- and caused countless cases of disease and death -- but we still see alcohol for sale most everywhere.

And what to say of tobacco? Outlaw these poisons now!
posted by clevershark at 7:57 PM on January 20, 2006


I bought a BMW the day after I smoked my first joint. Therefore marijuana induces German engineering.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 8:17 PM on January 20, 2006


Hmmm...I have a Honda. Maybe it was different bud?

*wishes for BMW weed*
posted by jahmoon at 8:38 PM on January 20, 2006


The UK should totally ban peanuts. Some people are allergic to these so called "nuts" and die! They even grind them up and add sugar to make them more attractive to kids.
posted by I Foody at 8:56 PM on January 20, 2006


Psychoactive drugs can trigger psychosis in some people.
In most modern societies, once you are tainted with the 'looney' brush it is very difficult to escape the cloying social stigma that is associated.
This response to 'challenging behaviour' is a symptom of a society's psychosis and not something to be proud of. I am sorry that this man has had to suffer the experience of losing a child to psychosis, it doesn't sound like he had any idea what to do about the situation.
Sectioning someone is an appaling thing to do, you are more than likely taking 5 years of their life away (3 if they are lucky) so that they can take more drugs and learn to relate to the underpaid and over-worked staff at the secure unit. I know some people really can't cope with helping a loved one through a mental break-down, but this man seems to have not tried to look for support or reached out to his son, judging by this article. I find it hard to have much sympathy with him as he is not even considering what he could have done to help.
His lack of education on the subject of mental illness does not seem to have been dealt with in the many years his son has been coping with his deomons. He states that he smoked mj himself, but it didn't make him mad. Congratu-fucking-lations. He states that his son was 'perfectly normal' until he lost it, which exposes his predudices about the sufferers of mental illness.

If I were him I would be glad to be able to support my son through such a situation. Imagine what it would be like if the son had gone through life 'normal', accruing wife, family and stressfull job just to lose it all if/when he had a breakdown in later life, when people really depended on him and his father was too old and infirm to be supportive.
posted by asok at 9:02 PM on January 20, 2006


It had literally blown his mind.

No, it hadn't.
The real threat comes from people who don't understand what "literally" means and use it as an equivalent for "really" or "a lot".
posted by signal at 9:12 PM on January 20, 2006


This story parallels that of some friends of mine. Their otherwise promising son took to smoking cannabis as a habit when he was about 14 or so, got chucked out of school, transferred to another etc and now at 18 is (I'm told) Psychotic. Needless to say his parents link the habit with the condition, and punish themselves for not being on the ball earlier.
posted by marvin at 9:30 PM on January 20, 2006


If I were him I would be glad to be able to support my son through such a situation. Imagine what it would be like if the son had ...a breakdown in later life, when people really depended on him and his father was too old and infirm to be supportive.
posted by asok at 9:02 PM PST on January 20 [!]


Newsflash: You're not him. You're not the aging parent of a mentally ill adult. The families of people with serious mental health issues spend decades trying to intervene, and begging the system to help them help their child. However, as adults, protection of the rights of the mentally ill often means that those who love them cannot impose upon them, nor can the system, treatment that they neither agree to nor participate in. The nature of the illness in question is to often times suffer paranoia and believe that people are trying to harm, not hurt you. Over decades of an adult child's mental illness the parents age and often become victims of their mentally ill children, whom they continue to try to help long after they are too infirm to take care even of themselves. This isn't something you help your child through and then it's done. It never ends. It's a lifelong issue. Anyone working in hospitals, clinics, courts or jails will tell you the same story. So before you throw stones, walk a mile - and a few decades - in the parents' shoes.
posted by onegreeneye at 9:43 PM on January 20, 2006


*correction to above: should read "harm not help you."
posted by onegreeneye at 9:45 PM on January 20, 2006


Many people like to say pot makes you foggy, but I find that it clears the mind. Do you understand? My mind is clear. I have a CLEAR MIND. I can see the entire universe in your eyes man, and heaven is a babies smile...woah, man, are those fritos?
posted by 2sheets at 10:04 PM on January 20, 2006


Hey, man, Fritos are, like, so...whoa, man, are those Fritos?
posted by Samizdata at 10:49 PM on January 20, 2006


Hooray for rejecting scientific research in favor of anecdotal evidence! Long live George Bush's America! Wait, this happened in the UK, you say? Can it be that the whole world has gone mad? Or is it just a select few that make up the coalition of the willingly mad?

Yeah, I know I usually crap on people for blaming the figurehead, but I figured I'd take some of the wind out of all those Brits who feel superior because they don't have an idiot president.
posted by Eideteker at 11:07 PM on January 20, 2006


Metafilter: like axe murdering a... woah, man, are those fritos?
posted by Maxson at 11:08 PM on January 20, 2006


The real threat comes from people who don't understand what "literally" means and use it as an equivalent for "really" or "a lot".

You're right. Mark Twain, Louisa May Alcott and F. Scott Fitzgerald all hate America, and it's language.

And don't even get me started on James Joyce.
posted by I Love Tacos at 11:10 PM on January 20, 2006


He smokes cannabis+He has a mental disease= smoking cannabis causes mental diseases.

So if God is love+love is blind=God must be blind.
Brilliant....
posted by highgene at 11:11 PM on January 20, 2006


T PANTS HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING POT
posted by jcruelty at 12:20 AM on January 21, 2006


onegreeneye, sorry if I touched on a nerve, but I still think there is a route to helping people with delusional paranioa that this man aparently didn't try. One problem would be financing the treatment, but this man suggests he is doing alright.
He obviously did not have the kind of relationship with his son that was open enough for the son to admit that he had been a heavy smoker for 3 years, until it went too far.
I will admit to not having walked a few decades in the parents shoes, but this man does not represent himself well in this article. It looks like he could have been more proactive earlier on, and more understanding. Throwing blame around after the event is not usually productive. But then being reasonable doesn't make it into the press so much.
posted by asok at 12:35 AM on January 21, 2006


I suspect that the link between young (15-20) cannabis use and mental illness is real. You're right that there isn't a lot of real evidence to support this opinion, but the fact is that of the three people I know who are mentally ill, all three were heavy cannabis users in their early teens. This possible link is highlighted over and over again by conversations I've had with people who say that they've experienced the same. It's not scientific, but it is enough to make me suspicious.

The pro-pot people seem to get unrealistically angry about any suggestion that weed may be bad for you. (Almost paranoid, dude) Unfortunately, it may. I've no real beef against cannabis. I smoked when I was a teenager, and have the occasional spliff every now and again. Even so, I think the link between THC and cannabis is plausible and needs to be investigated.
posted by seanyboy at 1:04 AM on January 21, 2006


Of course cannabis is bad for you. Same as alcohol. Same as tobacco. Same as bad posture. Same as a bad diet. Same as lying. Same as running with scissors.

Let's outlaw everything that's bad for you!
posted by hoverboards don't work on water at 1:43 AM on January 21, 2006


I've done copious investigation, seanyboy, and have found a definite link between THC and cannabis.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:45 AM on January 21, 2006


This upsetting story is not isolated. My experiences of psychiatry as a medical student showed that there were virtually no cases of paranoid mental illness in which cannabis did not play a role of some kind. If you ask many psychiatrists working in the area they will tell you that cannabis is worse than heroin as a cause of mental illness and behavioural problems.
Charlie, Oxford



Virtually no cases of paranoid mental illness that were not related to cannabis? So if we erradicate cannabis we will erradicate mental illness?

Hmmm. False.
posted by sic at 1:49 AM on January 21, 2006


That was from the comments on the BBC site under the story, by the way.
posted by sic at 1:49 AM on January 21, 2006


One man's story about how cannabis will RUIN YOUR LIFE.

Meanwhile, a disturbing lack of cannabis is RUINING MY LIFE.

For anyone and everyone that goes crazy when smoking weed, I am now offering a very effective and professional intervention service in which I smoke all your weed to prevent you or a loved one from smoking it. It's totally free, whether you have less then a gram or an entire truckful to dispose of. Ditch weed, brick weed, BC chronic, hyberbolic purple crystalline ultra herb from planet Xenophon, sunburnt leaf reefer, whatever. No job is too big or too small. Just give me your grass. Now. Hand it over.

Problem solved, with the added bonus I don't go crazy from being a tech support monkey whose job description specifically details the tasks of dealing with the copious amounts of human stupidity in the world. See? Less craziness all around. I stay sane, you stay sane.

Perfect synergy. A world in harmony and balance. Peace, love, understanding and prosperity for all.
posted by loquacious at 3:43 AM on January 21, 2006


I just posted on the BBC site about this. I don't smoke marijuana (don't know where to get it), and don't care that greatly about making recreational use legal. But it's criminal that medical marijuana is being held up by these debates.

My grandmother died recently of very painful intestinal cancer. She was lucky - she lived in the country, and she knew people who grew marijuana from whom she could get cheap and clean marijuana. Drinking marijuana tea was the only thing that allowed her to eat in her last months - it decreased her pain and settled her nausea. But she had to do this illegally, even though she was in Canada, because her doctor was prejudiced against prescribing it. A woman in her 70s, dying of cancer, denied some comfort? It's idiotic, and worse, just cruel.

I don't care if marijuana does or does not increase the risk of psychosis for some people - though I have seen no evidence it is worse for health and society than alcohol, which is everywhere. But I do know that it does definitely decrease pain and nausea for very sick people. It should be available by prescription everywhere.
posted by jb at 3:46 AM on January 21, 2006


Ridiculous overblown dramatic writing...
*Dramatic Pause* 'But I hadn't reckoned on cannabis.'
Da Da Daaaaaa
posted by BobsterLobster at 4:09 AM on January 21, 2006


Most of the menatally ill people I know don't smoke enough pot.
posted by signal at 4:18 AM on January 21, 2006


I suspect that the link between young (15-20) cannabis use and mental illness is real. You're right that there isn't a lot of real evidence to support this opinion

actually there is some evidence. and there's a review here in nature linking cannabis and the risk of psychosis during adolescence or early adulthood. (unfortunately, it's not a freebee but i'd be happy to email it to anyone interested (email address in profile) )
posted by tnai at 5:30 AM on January 21, 2006


I have never previously heard of someone being unable to score because their grandmother died. Thanks, Metafilter!

Hi jb!
posted by Wolof at 5:36 AM on January 21, 2006


Loquacious,

I volunteer to be your assistant in your endeavour to rid this country of unused chronic. Maybe VP of the Dank?
posted by Dantien at 7:21 AM on January 21, 2006


There's a 30 minute report on this, with lots of interviews, from Channel 4's Jon Snow - it's the first of his podcasts. You can find the mp3 here.
posted by funambulist at 7:23 AM on January 21, 2006


My friend spent about $2600CDN a year on weed (and yeah, he enjoys the jack and the super skunk) and managed to get a degree in computer engineering. He's also the last person on earth (at least in high school) who we though would ever plow through the required math courses.

So smoking skunk weed will get you an engineering degree!
posted by furtive at 7:57 AM on January 21, 2006


My brain read the FPP as "One man's story about how cannibals will RUIN YOUR LIFE."

Well, yeah. Once you've had Long Pig you can never go back.
posted by Foosnark at 8:44 AM on January 21, 2006


People seeing "evidence" of a cannabis-psychosis link should be careful.

Cannabis is the weakest and most harmless entry in our the modern "Index librorum prohibitorum". So, as more and more people realize that most of the War on Drugs is a shameful waste of money aimed almost exclusively toward population control and authority reinforcement, more and more people start seeing marijuana for what it is, a social drug much like alcohol. As the "average" person drifts slowly from non-drug user to light drug user, the number of mental illness cases in which some drug is used by the patient also grows.

The first trap is trying a direct link, as in "cannabis causes psychosis". It must be clear now that this is just a logical mistake. Without a very serious effort, you simply can't isolate the cause, much less link the incidence of both things. For the reason state above (availability and social decrease of prejudice) you can probably make exactly the same case for alcohol, tobacco, cellular phone and Internet usage, etc. Correlation does not mean causation and in this case correlation may only mean society is changing and you are refusing to acknowledge the change.

The indirect link, "people with a tendency to develop psychosis tend to use marijuana" is still very weak. Again, the case for alcohol was and still is even stronger (and when marijuana was not commonly available it was probably stated many times). Also, here we'd have to decide if using marijuana is beneficial or detrimental to people who will develop psychosis anyway. Due to the absurd restrictions on any drug research whose conclusions are not stated from the start ("I want a grant and some cocaine to show cocaine causes liver cancer on rats"), it will be very difficult to show if marijuana usage does not delays the emergence of psychosis, for instance (and then the case linked here would be a father's misinterpretation of his son's fight against psychosis).

So, again, making links without solid evidence is just bad logic and bad science. It may land you a grant or a DEA job, but it is still dishonest.
posted by nkyad at 8:51 AM on January 21, 2006


I bought a BMW the day after I smoked my first joint. Therefore marijuana induces German engineering.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 8:17 PM PST on January 20 [!]


Hmmm...I have a Honda. Maybe it was different bud?

*wishes for BMW weed*
posted by jahmoon at 8:38 PM PST on January 20 [!]

Still looking for the Porsche weed . . .

Mmmmmm, are those Fri. . . . Oh look, *pizza* ! ! !
posted by mk1gti at 9:32 AM on January 21, 2006


All this evidence of a link between cannabis and mental illness is seriously flawed.
Here's a few possible objections, off the top of my head.
1. As many others have pointed out, causation does not equal correlation.
2. The research that has surfaced in the last few years isn't new clinical trials, but reviews of old research, some of it carried out during the most drug-hysteric years of the 20th century.
3. Even if there is a link between cannabis use and psychosis, how can we be sure that it is caused by the drug itself, and not, say, by the legaslative measured taken to prevent its use? There's a well established link between contact with law enforcement and mental illness.
4. What about the links between nicotine and mental illness? What about the link between cat ownership and schizophrenia? Where these possible causes of mental illness taken into account or did the studies only foucus on one possible cause?
5. Why hasn't cannabis been tested the way any other drug is usually tested - in double-blind trials on healthy volounteers?
posted by spazzm at 9:59 AM on January 21, 2006


In case nobody believes me:
Study that links exposure to cats in childhood to schizophrenia.
posted by spazzm at 10:06 AM on January 21, 2006


5. Why hasn't cannabis been tested the way any other drug is usually tested - in double-blind trials on healthy volounteers?

Because, as I said before, with such a study you can't write-up the conclusions beforehand. The only kind of scientific drug study allowed are the ones who will, without any doubt, prove again drugs are bad. And the governments and agencies that control the money flux to science will take any measure necessary to ensure no scientist can perform resonable experiments without puting his/her career and life in jeopardy.
posted by nkyad at 10:11 AM on January 21, 2006


There's also the plausible explanation that such a trial would be unethical. If cannabis use did cause psychosis in some, there might be volunteers at risk (such trials are tolerated for candidate medicines, because there's a socially recognized potential for benefit; not so for "recreational drugs")
posted by Gyan at 10:16 AM on January 21, 2006


Metafilter: It had literally blown his mind.
posted by iron chef morimoto at 10:39 AM on January 21, 2006


With chronic (ahem - I mean marijuana) being a psychoactive drug it is not surprising that it can push a person who is already suffers from underlying mental illness past the brink. Much like LSD. It's a shame the father is trying to put the blame on the weed. If pot made smokers crazy, the United States would be one big mental institution. Oh, wait, maybe that explains things...
posted by EseLoco at 12:37 PM on January 21, 2006


"But I hadn't reckoned on MetaFilter"


My wife and I knew that Duncan had smoked some MetaFilter when he was younger, and was still dabbling in it. But we were not aware of the dangers he faced. When we returned from a weekend away, we found our son was a different person. He was talking weirdly, his thoughts were all over the place, he was having hallucinations, and was totally paranoid. He kept mumbling, "MetaFilter: I hadn't reckoned on it."

Duncan took a year out of university, but it took about six months to wean him off MetaFilter, as he was psychologically dependent on it. Eventually he was so bad we had to section him under the Mental Health Act.

He barricaded himself into his bedroom and it took 10 police officers dressed in full riot gear to smash his door down and drag him off to hospital. They thought he was a danger, but he wouldn't have hurt his mouse or his keyboard. It took another trip to hospital a year later, before Duncan finally realised he needed to take some sort of medication to stay stable. That was over four years ago, which I'm told is a hopeful sign. He still cannot hold down a full-time job and his paranoia can be powerful and debilitating.

What appalled me two years ago was the decision to downgrade MetaFilter to a Class C drug, and the signal it sends to our young people. My own son told me: "It's okay Dad, it's herbal and organic." That may be so, but as our experience shows, MetaFilter is anything but harmless.
posted by Duncan at 1:22 PM on January 21, 2006


The real threat comes from people who don't understand what "literally" means and use it as an equivalent for "really" or "a lot".

I had a older dictionary (perhaps British) that listed "figuratively" as the second definition for "literally." No joke.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:22 PM on January 21, 2006


...I still think there is a route to helping people with delusional paranioa that this man aparently didn't try. One problem would be financing the treatment...He obviously did not have the kind of relationship with his son that was open enough for the son to admit that he had been a heavy smoker for 3 years, until it went too far.
It looks like he could have been more proactive earlier on, and more understanding. Throwing blame around after the event is not usually productive. "
posted by asok at 12:35 AM PST on January 21 [!]


You imply that treatment early on would cure the problem or could have prevented it. Schizophrenia cannot be held off, prevented or cured currently. The result would have been the same whether dad had acted in advance or not - an eventual manifestation of Schizophrenia. Whether the dad was proactive early on, or now, would not cure his son nor have sped along a cure, nor have stopped an eventual life sentence for the family of trying to keep the kid on his meds. Funding treatment as you suggest (not an issue in the UK, me thinks) would not keep the patient on his meds and in his treatment, as that's ultimately the patient's choice. Keeping the ill person on meds that they go through periods of rejecting, forever, is the long term haul for families regardless of past action or inaction. Is it strange the dad is going through a phase of anger and blame, denial, etc. when realizing that his beautiful boy is severely, irrevocably mentally ill? Nope. Will the dad grow in his understanding of the disease and continue to try to help his son now that he has a diagnosis? I'll bet yet. Does the dad deserve judgment and blame from someone who has no clue of the scope, duration and lifelong sorrow imposed on the families of people with this disorder? Nope.

Regarding his relationship with his son, and your view of it: I can think of many folks - myself included - who felt close to and loved by parents but wouldn't have spilled the beans about our experimentation with drugs while we were doing them. The kid kept his pot habit a secret? Shocker! Welcome to being the parent of a teen.
posted by onegreeneye at 9:44 PM on January 21, 2006


So first the Dad goes on and on about how his handsome, intelligent, sexy, athletic progeny was just about the most perfect person on earth until he started smoking pot. But if his kid was schizophrenic, I can guarentee he was having some problems before he went to college. The mere fact that he had been smoking weed since 15 and his precious Dad had no idea is an indication of just how close and honest their relationship was.
posted by sophist at 2:08 AM on January 22, 2006


Um. I for one think that weed may agitate (though probably not create) learning disabilities and emotional/psychological problems. This shouldn't be surprising. It's a hallucinogen that is often used regularly and, if what they say is true, has been hitting the market in more and more potent strains over the years. Class C substance, probably not. Harmless? (titter) probably not.

All things in moderation. Pass the bowl, dood.
posted by es_de_bah at 4:52 PM on January 22, 2006


Reefer Madness is in the public domain, btw!
posted by Eideteker at 4:47 AM on January 23, 2006


Although I recognize that certain substances can have cumulative effects, establishing a causal relationship between something that someone has done for years with no ill effect and the eventual development of schizophrenia is quite a complicated thing to do. Thankfully, people are researching it (to the extent that they are allowed) and there have been some quite interesting results. For instance, Anandamide, an endocannabinoid, exists at levels 6 times as high in people with psychotic symptoms than controls. THC just so happens to bind to the same receptors. So obviously, ingesting THC is going to increase stimulation of Anadamide receptors and make people crazy, right? Not exactly. Although schizophrenics have, on average, more Anandamide, psychotic episodes occur more frequently when it's low, not high. This suggests that Anandamide is released by the body as a way to decrease psychotic episodes. On the other hand, those schizophrenics that use Marijuana more heavily have, on average, more frequent and more severe psychotic episodes. The report suggests that this may be a result of desensitization of the receptors. Furthermore, schizophrenic heavy marijuana users had the lowest levels of Anandamide, which, it's suggested, is a result of the Cannabis. But then again, medicated schizophrenics also had lower levels and no one's saying they "got" schizophrenia from the meds. And if the body is responding to psychosis by releasing more Anandamide, wouldn't there be even higher levels if the receptors were desensitized? Couldn't it be that, as a result of their body not naturally producing enough of the substance, it's more useful for them (vs. those that can produce larger amounts) to stimulate the receptors via outside sources, and they require larger amounts in order to reach sufficient levels? The only thing that is going to answer these questions and genuinely provide a benefit to society is research - not inflammatory stories, not prohibition.

This is a bit of the ol' ridiculous as well: James went to stay with his sister in America, but then stopped taking his medication and started drinking.

When he got home it was clear things were going off the rails. He was getting angry and violent, and we were worried he might harm himself.


Why doesn't he say alcohol ruined his child's life? Why is his daughter letting her brother stay off his meds? Why is he letting his son leave the country during such a tribulant time? And later, when his son was "so bad" (thanks for that uselessly vague description) they had to call the police -- they broke down his fucking door in riot gear!! For a paranoid person, having 10 officers in riot gear break into their bedroom - the place where they're staying for sanctuary from the outside world - is one of the worst fucking things you could put them through. But that's a seperate issue, and something the parents probably didn't forsee.

Something I've seen in almost every "Drugs/Alcohol/Racing/The Wrong Crowd/* Destroyed My Child" is a borderline-neglectful distance between the parents and children, coupled with a strong denial that they could've had anything at all to do with it, and a desire to keep their fantastical image of their "perfect child" clean by blaming all of their children's problems on external influences. I'm not saying that the parents are at fault and I don't entirely understand the sociology behind it - something complicated by the source of the information - but it's something I inevitably notice.

(All facts in the following are taken from the previously-linked NS article, Basic Facts About Schizophrenia or the ONDCP.)
So then why is it that so many people smoke marijuana (often for years, without issue) only to one day have it "give them" schizophrenia? Schizophrenia is acknowledged by the medical profession to NOT be caused by AODA (Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse). No one "gets" schizophrenia, what one "gets" is their first psychotic episode. And the age of onset? Well, that just happens to be between 16-25. Let's also consider that ~60% of schizophrenics use cannabis. And when do people start using Cannabis, on average? 67% of new marijuana users in 2001 were under 18, with an average age of 17.1 years. That's before most people would ever develop psychotic symptoms. Is it so far-fetched to believe that they would've had that psychotic episode when they were 20 whether or not they happened to smoke pot before then (which they likely did)?

Anyway, I hope that made sense, my workday's over and I need to head home and stimulate my synapses with a nice big... dinner.
posted by nTeleKy at 3:06 PM on January 23, 2006 [1 favorite]


Among the research cited by both papers appearing this week was an intriguing study published last year that followed a group of more than 800 New Zealanders from birth until age 26. The study looked at people with a gene variant that apparently predisposes them to developing psychosis, and people without it. The variant was carried by 25 percent of the study's participants.

The study found that among those with this variant, smoking marijuana as teens increased their risk of psychosis in young adulthood nearly tenfold compared with those who did not smoke as teens. Those who smoked marijuana but did not have the gene variant incurred little or no added risk.

posted by Gyan at 1:56 PM on January 26, 2006


One of the nastiest days of my life was the day the cops took my mad housemate away. He was a very strong guy, he really (literally?) didn't want to be anywhere except inside his room, and it took four burly cops and his equally strong brother to manhandle him screaming into the divvy van. Two of the cops used extensible steel batons, one to smash his fingers to loosen their grip on the edge of the divvy van doorway and the other to crack across his shins to try (unsuccessfully) to stop him kicking them in the head.

I can't think of a better way to cement a belief that the world outside your bedroom is deeply unsafe.

Ordinary cops shouldn't have to do this kind of work. There ought to be a specialist class of paramedic trained and authorized to forcibly sedate people in this situation.

Forced hospitalization was about the only thing that could have saved his life, though. He'd totally retreated into his room, he hadn't eaten or drunk for three or four days, he'd repeatedly pissed and shat the bed, and he wouldn't talk to anybody else in the house. None of us in the house had had any kind of experience with that degree of mental illness before, and none of us knew what to do about it.

Eventually somebody called his brother, who came around, took one look in his room and called the Crisis Assessment Team, who then called the cops. The brother was fully convinced that living in a house full of dope smokers and partaking fully in the social life thereof was what had tipped him over the edge again (apparently this had happened several times before). It's an easy impression to form, and seeing your only brother beaten black and blue by the very guys you'd had to call in to help him would tend to burn it in. He was, naturally, furious as hell at all of us.

It does seem to me that smoking a lot of dope - or using a lot of any other mind- or mood-altering substance - really can mess up your mind, if it's the kind of mind that tends toward flakiness in the first place; but then so can a lot of other things. I've known people who wigged out severely after doing ten-day meditation retreats.

My own personal psychotic experience (much later, also resulting in involuntary hospitalization) was brought on by work-related stress, sleep deprivation and cultural isolation; yes, I did smoke a little hash on the way down, but looking back it's safe to say I was already well and truly mad by that stage.

I can't see how keeping cannabis illegal actually helps, either; seems to me that the main effect of drug-of-choice illegality in cases of mental ill-health is to act as yet another disincentive to seeking help.
posted by flabdablet at 4:45 PM on January 26, 2006


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