I am shocked -- shocked! -- to hear the Academy doesn't always vote for quality
March 13, 2006 4:24 AM Subscribe
A Sour Grapes Rant: "The people connected with Brokeback Mountain, including me, hoped that, having been nominated for eight Academy awards, it would get Best Picture... We should have known conservative heffalump academy voters would have rather different ideas of what was stirring contemporary culture... Next year we can look to the awards for controversial themes on the punishment of adulterers with a branding iron in the shape of the letter A, runaway slaves, and the debate over free silver." -- E. Annie Proulx unleashes in The Guardian.
"Blood on the red carpet." Oh, shut up, woman. It's a popularity contest, nothing more.
posted by Gator at 4:39 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by Gator at 4:39 AM on March 13, 2006
Wow, that was petty and trying-to-hard-to-be-witty (and failing miserably).
posted by signal at 4:41 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by signal at 4:41 AM on March 13, 2006
Reading that makes me glad that Crash won.
posted by Optamystic at 4:41 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by Optamystic at 4:41 AM on March 13, 2006
Oooh, voting like what last year's liberals did is now conservative. Anti-racism is sooo dated, now it's gay cowboys! Sour grapes indeed.
Annie Proulx doesn't care about black people.
posted by Saydur at 4:42 AM on March 13, 2006
Annie Proulx doesn't care about black people.
posted by Saydur at 4:42 AM on March 13, 2006
"(If you are looking for smart judging based on merit, skip the Academy Awards next year and pay attention to the Independent Spirit choices.)"
That sentence could've ended after "If you are looking for smart judging based on merit, skip the Academy Awards." The Oscars are an insider circle-jerk / popularity contest?? Say it ain't so!
But as to (what I take to be) the substance of her criticism, I'm glad Ms. Proulx thinks that race issues in the U.S. are so settled as to be quaint and boring. Guess when you're born, raised, schooled, and ensconced in the great white north it doesn't seem to be quite the issue anymore. How about this -- among my social cohort, homophobia is quaint and ridiculous, so I guess Brokeback is pedestrian and tired too? Please.
Which is not to say that Crash was a GOOD treatment of racism in America, but that wasn't the substance of her criticism.
posted by rkent at 4:55 AM on March 13, 2006
That sentence could've ended after "If you are looking for smart judging based on merit, skip the Academy Awards." The Oscars are an insider circle-jerk / popularity contest?? Say it ain't so!
But as to (what I take to be) the substance of her criticism, I'm glad Ms. Proulx thinks that race issues in the U.S. are so settled as to be quaint and boring. Guess when you're born, raised, schooled, and ensconced in the great white north it doesn't seem to be quite the issue anymore. How about this -- among my social cohort, homophobia is quaint and ridiculous, so I guess Brokeback is pedestrian and tired too? Please.
Which is not to say that Crash was a GOOD treatment of racism in America, but that wasn't the substance of her criticism.
posted by rkent at 4:55 AM on March 13, 2006
So much for being gracious in failure.
posted by mrmojoflying at 4:55 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by mrmojoflying at 4:55 AM on March 13, 2006
Did she really think that the Academy Awards were a good, objective judgement of the best picture of the year? Did she not watch when Titanic won?
posted by posadnitsa at 4:56 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by posadnitsa at 4:56 AM on March 13, 2006
I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, but I saw Crash and really liked it. I didn't think it was preachy or judgmental at all. Not sure at all bits of dialogue in particular were supposed to be preachy: the people calling it preachy seem curiously unspecific.
I'm also not sure why the Hollywood elite ("6,000 film industry voters, most in the Los Angeles area, many living cloistered lives behind wrought-iron gates or in deluxe rest-homes") are supposed to be so anti-gay. I'd suspect that socially they're likely to know more gay people than black or hispanic people.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:03 AM on March 13, 2006
I'm also not sure why the Hollywood elite ("6,000 film industry voters, most in the Los Angeles area, many living cloistered lives behind wrought-iron gates or in deluxe rest-homes") are supposed to be so anti-gay. I'd suspect that socially they're likely to know more gay people than black or hispanic people.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:03 AM on March 13, 2006
And rumour has it that Lions Gate inundated the academy voters with DVD copies of Trash - excuse me - Crash
Tell me about it! Even in places as remote as China, you still find them being sold for a few cents. Wow. Talk about coverage...
./A
posted by NewBornHippy at 5:13 AM on March 13, 2006
Tell me about it! Even in places as remote as China, you still find them being sold for a few cents. Wow. Talk about coverage...
./A
posted by NewBornHippy at 5:13 AM on March 13, 2006
I guess she's got more right than most to be upset for not winning.
Not the way I would have responded, but hey, I'm not the writer of a story that just got turned into a major motion picture.
posted by darkstar at 5:15 AM on March 13, 2006
Not the way I would have responded, but hey, I'm not the writer of a story that just got turned into a major motion picture.
posted by darkstar at 5:15 AM on March 13, 2006
Persecution multiplex?
posted by ParisParamus at 5:16 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by ParisParamus at 5:16 AM on March 13, 2006
Annie's channeling Capote.
posted by three blind mice at 5:19 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by three blind mice at 5:19 AM on March 13, 2006
Hopelesly superficial piece, wasn't it?
Still, it you can't bawl out one bunch of liberals screwing another bunch of liberals in The Guardian - where the hell can you do it?
(I'm actually a huge Brokeback booster, but I was totally unmoved by Proulx's dainty peevishness).
I'm just surprised she didn't mention the rumor that Nicholson deliberately read out the wrong movie for Best Picture - and that it should have been Brokeback all along. Read that new version of the old Jack Palance "scandal" on at least two websites!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 5:21 AM on March 13, 2006
Still, it you can't bawl out one bunch of liberals screwing another bunch of liberals in The Guardian - where the hell can you do it?
(I'm actually a huge Brokeback booster, but I was totally unmoved by Proulx's dainty peevishness).
I'm just surprised she didn't mention the rumor that Nicholson deliberately read out the wrong movie for Best Picture - and that it should have been Brokeback all along. Read that new version of the old Jack Palance "scandal" on at least two websites!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 5:21 AM on March 13, 2006
Not classy, not witty, not justified, certainly not well-written, and interesting only in the car wreck sort of way. Why on earth did Ms. Proulx allow The Guardian to publish this piece? Has her ego blinded her to where she can't see how this sort of nonsense only embarrasses her?
The passive-aggressive dismissal of Philip Seymour Hoffman was gross. Her association of racism with, say, the issue of free silver seems weirdly misinformed. Perhaps most importantly, a phrase like "a bushel of the magic gold-coated gelded godlings going to the rap group" reads to me like something a very silly character would write from inside a very silly novel about somewhat dull people.
I'm neither defending Crash nor attacking Brokeback Mountain. After all, none of the best pictures of 2005 were nominated for Best Picture, and it's only the Oscars, so it's all rather moot.
But still. Neener neener, sayeth I, for this column hath annoyed me to no end. Everything about it makes me want to stuff Proulx in a crate with air holes and mail her to Abu Dhabi.
Maybe I'm just in a mood.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:25 AM on March 13, 2006
The passive-aggressive dismissal of Philip Seymour Hoffman was gross. Her association of racism with, say, the issue of free silver seems weirdly misinformed. Perhaps most importantly, a phrase like "a bushel of the magic gold-coated gelded godlings going to the rap group" reads to me like something a very silly character would write from inside a very silly novel about somewhat dull people.
I'm neither defending Crash nor attacking Brokeback Mountain. After all, none of the best pictures of 2005 were nominated for Best Picture, and it's only the Oscars, so it's all rather moot.
But still. Neener neener, sayeth I, for this column hath annoyed me to no end. Everything about it makes me want to stuff Proulx in a crate with air holes and mail her to Abu Dhabi.
Maybe I'm just in a mood.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:25 AM on March 13, 2006
And rumour has it that Lions Gate inundated the academy voters with DVD copies of Trash - excuse me - Crash a few weeks before the ballot deadline.
Oh my God -- somebody campaigned for their movie at the Oscars! The next thing you'll tell me, some unscrupulous actors will have full page ads in Variety, immodestly touting their own accomplishments in an attempt to gain nominations.
posted by rosemere at 5:26 AM on March 13, 2006
Oh my God -- somebody campaigned for their movie at the Oscars! The next thing you'll tell me, some unscrupulous actors will have full page ads in Variety, immodestly touting their own accomplishments in an attempt to gain nominations.
posted by rosemere at 5:26 AM on March 13, 2006
It's that important, why ?
posted by elpapacito at 5:27 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 5:27 AM on March 13, 2006
From the first there was an atmosphere of insufferable self-importance
Um, that works on multiple levels, Annie. I'm a gay guy, and I'm sick of the whining about Brokeback. It's ridiculous to give the Oscars as much power as the whiners do, absurd to think the only proper honor for the film was a complete sweep of the major awards, and insulting to think that somehow a 'best picture' would have been a huge boost for gay rights in America. Puh-lease. I love how she notes the travesty that her film won the same number of awards as King Kong, which won in technical categories. What kind of argument is that?
There's no coherent idea being presented here, just a bunch of unseemly bitching. But I do appreciate the chance to once again marvel at Proulx's hilariously overdone language and those patented laugh-out-loud metaphors that fill her prose. I mean, "the yeasty ferment that is America these days" and "The hours sped by on wings of boiler plate" - you can't make that kind of clunky stuff up.
Anyway, there's a much more thoughtful roundup of various writers' thoughts on Crash/Brokeback here.
posted by mediareport at 5:34 AM on March 13, 2006
Um, that works on multiple levels, Annie. I'm a gay guy, and I'm sick of the whining about Brokeback. It's ridiculous to give the Oscars as much power as the whiners do, absurd to think the only proper honor for the film was a complete sweep of the major awards, and insulting to think that somehow a 'best picture' would have been a huge boost for gay rights in America. Puh-lease. I love how she notes the travesty that her film won the same number of awards as King Kong, which won in technical categories. What kind of argument is that?
There's no coherent idea being presented here, just a bunch of unseemly bitching. But I do appreciate the chance to once again marvel at Proulx's hilariously overdone language and those patented laugh-out-loud metaphors that fill her prose. I mean, "the yeasty ferment that is America these days" and "The hours sped by on wings of boiler plate" - you can't make that kind of clunky stuff up.
Anyway, there's a much more thoughtful roundup of various writers' thoughts on Crash/Brokeback here.
posted by mediareport at 5:34 AM on March 13, 2006
Wow. Who has ever been under the impression that the Academy Awards are really about merit? Ever?
Puhleeze! The Oscars are all pomp and no relevance. Unless you get one yourself. Or award one to me - the year that happens the Academy will have finally seen the light.
posted by djeo at 5:36 AM on March 13, 2006
Puhleeze! The Oscars are all pomp and no relevance. Unless you get one yourself. Or award one to me - the year that happens the Academy will have finally seen the light.
posted by djeo at 5:36 AM on March 13, 2006
Am I the only one who can't get the Guardian page to load?
posted by zardoz at 5:43 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by zardoz at 5:43 AM on March 13, 2006
Oh quiet dignity in (minor) defeat, where art thou? And not even a defeat, really, considering BBM won three awards. And let it not be said that "Best Director" is anything less than prestigious, either. (Btw, Ang Lee's acceptance speech was sincerely a pleasure to listen to, emotionally quite gratifying.)
Crikey. Ms. Proulx's piece in The Guardian at best demeans her, at worst demeans her story. It should have been beneath her to write anything so childish in response to what -- as others have pointed out -- is a freaking popularity contest put on by Hollywooders.
Shame on her for being snide in Hoffman's direction, and shame on her for being nasty about Crash and Three 6 Mafia's song. How utterly arrogant on her part.
posted by Moody834 at 5:46 AM on March 13, 2006
Crikey. Ms. Proulx's piece in The Guardian at best demeans her, at worst demeans her story. It should have been beneath her to write anything so childish in response to what -- as others have pointed out -- is a freaking popularity contest put on by Hollywooders.
Shame on her for being snide in Hoffman's direction, and shame on her for being nasty about Crash and Three 6 Mafia's song. How utterly arrogant on her part.
posted by Moody834 at 5:46 AM on March 13, 2006
Good Night and Good Luck was better anyway.
This was just a love story with dudes. Crash, on the other hand, was Pay it Forward with a facelift.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:47 AM on March 13, 2006
This was just a love story with dudes. Crash, on the other hand, was Pay it Forward with a facelift.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:47 AM on March 13, 2006
How embarassing for her. Sally Field's humiliating acceptance speech of a couple decades ago says all there is to say about the clubby fatuousness of the AMPAS membership, as well as the overall process. For anyone with a brain, giving Titanic the oscar was the Academy's Milli Vanilli moment, and anything winning subsequently should be considered suspect. If anything, Proulx missed an opportunity to take the other road: not winning best picture should a tremendous source of pride.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 5:57 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 5:57 AM on March 13, 2006
I don't Ms. Proulx has to look to far to find that "atmosphere of insufferable self-importance" she likes to talk about...
posted by clevershark at 5:59 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by clevershark at 5:59 AM on March 13, 2006
If anything, Proulx missed an opportunity to take the other road: not winning best picture should a tremendous source of pride.
That's what's most embarrassing about the whole "Brokeback was robbed!" thing - the total emotional investment in Hollywood's approval. Striking.
posted by mediareport at 6:08 AM on March 13, 2006
That's what's most embarrassing about the whole "Brokeback was robbed!" thing - the total emotional investment in Hollywood's approval. Striking.
posted by mediareport at 6:08 AM on March 13, 2006
Wow. How pathetic.
I don't think Crash was the best film of the year but I did pick it in Oscar pools. I also don't think BBM was the best film of the year--in fact, I thought both were rather subpar.
Proulx sounds like an idiot in this piece. Truly pathetic.
My picks for best American films of the year were Junebug and The Weather Man.
posted by dobbs at 6:32 AM on March 13, 2006
I don't think Crash was the best film of the year but I did pick it in Oscar pools. I also don't think BBM was the best film of the year--in fact, I thought both were rather subpar.
Proulx sounds like an idiot in this piece. Truly pathetic.
My picks for best American films of the year were Junebug and The Weather Man.
posted by dobbs at 6:32 AM on March 13, 2006
From mediareport's excellent link:
"But many members did not see why a story that was essentially a tale of two men cheating on their wives — albeit with each other — should be chosen to represent Hollywood's best effort of the year."
posted by anastasiav at 6:32 AM on March 13, 2006
"But many members did not see why a story that was essentially a tale of two men cheating on their wives — albeit with each other — should be chosen to represent Hollywood's best effort of the year."
posted by anastasiav at 6:32 AM on March 13, 2006
Any word whether Diebold instead of Price Waterhouse was in charge of tabulating the Best Picture votes?
posted by dios at 6:45 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by dios at 6:45 AM on March 13, 2006
She should have just wrote "Flagged" or maybe dropped the "meh" bomb.
posted by srboisvert at 6:47 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by srboisvert at 6:47 AM on March 13, 2006
Not classy, not witty, not justified, certainly not well-written,
Proulx's opera omnia in a nutshell.
if she's pissed for what happened the mediocre, safe movie version of her mediocre, safe novella, one wonders what somebody like Michael Haneke, a real maestro who was robbed by the talent-blind members of the Academy is supposed to say.
Haneke, on the other hand (memo to MeFi's film lovers: watch Caché if you haven't already) seems to have a healthy dose of black humor re: all things Hollywood
posted by matteo at 6:48 AM on March 13, 2006
Proulx's opera omnia in a nutshell.
if she's pissed for what happened the mediocre, safe movie version of her mediocre, safe novella, one wonders what somebody like Michael Haneke, a real maestro who was robbed by the talent-blind members of the Academy is supposed to say.
Haneke, on the other hand (memo to MeFi's film lovers: watch Caché if you haven't already) seems to have a healthy dose of black humor re: all things Hollywood
posted by matteo at 6:48 AM on March 13, 2006
posadnitsa writes "Did she really think that the Academy Awards were a good, objective judgement of the best picture of the year? Did she not watch when Titanic won?"
Tell me about it! Starship Troopers was ROBBED!!!!!
posted by indiebass at 6:51 AM on March 13, 2006
Tell me about it! Starship Troopers was ROBBED!!!!!
posted by indiebass at 6:51 AM on March 13, 2006
whether Diebold instead of Price Waterhouse
there's actually a conspiracy theory floating around that Scientolgy blackmailed PW into rigging the Best Picture vote. but then, one wonders why Travolta keeps losing whenever is nominated for Best Actor Oscars, then (he was robbed both times he got nominated, and his Get Shorty role was at least worthy of a nomination)
*wonders what many film experts he respects saw in Junebug*
posted by matteo at 6:53 AM on March 13, 2006
there's actually a conspiracy theory floating around that Scientolgy blackmailed PW into rigging the Best Picture vote. but then, one wonders why Travolta keeps losing whenever is nominated for Best Actor Oscars, then (he was robbed both times he got nominated, and his Get Shorty role was at least worthy of a nomination)
*wonders what many film experts he respects saw in Junebug*
posted by matteo at 6:53 AM on March 13, 2006
I'd never read anything by Ms. Proulx before and, if this rant is any indication of her skill with the written word, I daresay I have no interest in reading anything else. There's writing one composes in tranquility and writing one fires like a burp gun under duress, be that duress outrage, sorrow, or elation. This possessed the failings of both and none of the merits of either. Disappointing and boring.
posted by the sobsister at 6:54 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by the sobsister at 6:54 AM on March 13, 2006
there's actually a conspiracy theory floating around that Scientolgy blackmailed PW into rigging the Best Picture vote.
Huh. I was wondering what that "baleful light of the Scientology sign" bit was about.
posted by Gator at 6:56 AM on March 13, 2006
Huh. I was wondering what that "baleful light of the Scientology sign" bit was about.
posted by Gator at 6:56 AM on March 13, 2006
Roger Ebert's take: Crash was just better, and if Academy voters were really homophobic, they wouldn't have voted for Philip Seymour Hoffman for Best Actor. Also, no one's complaining that some voters also thought that Good Night, and Good Luck, Capote, and Munich were better than Brokeback Mountain. It wasn't a two-way race.
I think Brokeback Mountain will have the most significant long-term cultural impact, because it's a cultural milestone that a gay love story was a Best Picture nominee. We've made some progress since In & Out. That doesn't necessarily make Brokeback Mountain the best film of 2005, though.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 AM on March 13, 2006
I think Brokeback Mountain will have the most significant long-term cultural impact, because it's a cultural milestone that a gay love story was a Best Picture nominee. We've made some progress since In & Out. That doesn't necessarily make Brokeback Mountain the best film of 2005, though.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 AM on March 13, 2006
Is there any way to find out the actual voting? Probably not.
Let's speculate as to what happened:
Crash took the largest share of the conventional pictures (Goodnight and Good Luck, Munich, Crash). Let's guess it got 40% of the 70% of the total vote from voters who wouldn't be comfortable with gay-themed pictures and Brokeback took only 10% of those voters (or 7%). And Brokeback took 60% of the remaining 30% of the voters who actually would consider it while Crash only took 10% of those 30% of the voters.
Crash ends up with 31% of the votes and Brokeback ends up with only 25%.
Who said that democracy always leads to the best choices?
posted by notmtwain at 7:05 AM on March 13, 2006
Let's speculate as to what happened:
Crash took the largest share of the conventional pictures (Goodnight and Good Luck, Munich, Crash). Let's guess it got 40% of the 70% of the total vote from voters who wouldn't be comfortable with gay-themed pictures and Brokeback took only 10% of those voters (or 7%). And Brokeback took 60% of the remaining 30% of the voters who actually would consider it while Crash only took 10% of those 30% of the voters.
Crash ends up with 31% of the votes and Brokeback ends up with only 25%.
Who said that democracy always leads to the best choices?
posted by notmtwain at 7:05 AM on March 13, 2006
Proulx, if anyone was robbed it was Revenge of the Sith. Stop crying.
posted by Captaintripps at 7:07 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by Captaintripps at 7:07 AM on March 13, 2006
matteo, Junebug showed what was for me a spot-on interpretation of the world I knew as a kid. Simple as that. (Weather Man did the same thing for the world I know as an adult.) That said, I did think 2005 was one of Hollywood's worst years since the 80s (which were mostly bad through and through).
However, no surprise to you, I'm sure, that I believe Cache was the best film of the year, hands down.
posted by dobbs at 7:15 AM on March 13, 2006
However, no surprise to you, I'm sure, that I believe Cache was the best film of the year, hands down.
posted by dobbs at 7:15 AM on March 13, 2006
It's always disappointing when good writers turn into insufferable "artists."
posted by craniac at 7:18 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by craniac at 7:18 AM on March 13, 2006
posted "We should have known conservative heffalump academy voters would have rather different ideas of what was stirring contemporary culture"
Yes, and maybe the award is about best (most popular) picture rather than "picture with the most stirring message that made the short list". Geez everytime things don't go your way doesn't mean the players are homophobic, sometimes they just don't go your way.
posted by Mitheral at 7:20 AM on March 13, 2006
Yes, and maybe the award is about best (most popular) picture rather than "picture with the most stirring message that made the short list". Geez everytime things don't go your way doesn't mean the players are homophobic, sometimes they just don't go your way.
posted by Mitheral at 7:20 AM on March 13, 2006
Many Academy members probably didn't see BBM because they got a PAL-screener DVD, and don't know about Bittorrent.
Next year everything will be different, because then Academy members can only play their screeners on a special (ugly/big/black) Cinea DVD player.
posted by kika at 7:21 AM on March 13, 2006
Next year everything will be different, because then Academy members can only play their screeners on a special (ugly/big/black) Cinea DVD player.
posted by kika at 7:21 AM on March 13, 2006
Quick, someone stop her from running off to live with John Galt, where people will appreciate her work!
As is, a year or two from now, Brokeback will be a footnote in cinematic history, remembered most often as the means of a punchline, and hardly anything more.
posted by Atreides at 7:22 AM on March 13, 2006
As is, a year or two from now, Brokeback will be a footnote in cinematic history, remembered most often as the means of a punchline, and hardly anything more.
posted by Atreides at 7:22 AM on March 13, 2006
I have this image in my mind's eye of BR Meyers hitting Proulx with a hammer made of an Oscar tied to a pole.
It makes me smile. Then again, any image of Proulx being hit by a hammer would.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:29 AM on March 13, 2006
It makes me smile. Then again, any image of Proulx being hit by a hammer would.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:29 AM on March 13, 2006
"Trash"?
Can I call it Bareback Mountin' now? Please?
posted by klangklangston at 7:30 AM on March 13, 2006
Can I call it Bareback Mountin' now? Please?
posted by klangklangston at 7:30 AM on March 13, 2006
And c'mon, racist much regarding 3-6 Mafia? Those damn uppity niggers winnin' that prize for their violent lyrics... At least News and Notes did a good job disecting the travails of pimping.
posted by klangklangston at 7:31 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 7:31 AM on March 13, 2006
Annie Proulx doesn't care about black people.
you win.
posted by nuclear_soup at 7:34 AM on March 13, 2006
you win.
posted by nuclear_soup at 7:34 AM on March 13, 2006
I'm gay and I have no interest in seeing Brokeback Mountain. I haven't seen any of the other nominated movies either.
posted by mike3k at 7:38 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by mike3k at 7:38 AM on March 13, 2006
When liberals defending one movie feel they have to trash another liberal film, the terrorists win.
Signed,
Another Gizay Man Who Hasn't Seen Brokeback Yet But Loved Crash
posted by digaman at 7:40 AM on March 13, 2006
Signed,
Another Gizay Man Who Hasn't Seen Brokeback Yet But Loved Crash
posted by digaman at 7:40 AM on March 13, 2006
This is the self-outiest topic on MeFi. Any more gays out there? I need a witness!
posted by digaman at 7:41 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by digaman at 7:41 AM on March 13, 2006
"There's nothing wrong with coming in number two." - Bill Maher on Brokeback Mountain
posted by emelenjr at 7:43 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by emelenjr at 7:43 AM on March 13, 2006
I'm fond of Spike Lee's 1994 comments regarding the oscars in this interview:
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:44 AM on March 13, 2006
AP: What’s your feeling about the Oscars these days? Do you vote?Personally, I thought Brokeback had some flaws in it. Perhaps it was the bad audio in the theatre, but chunks of the dialog were incomprehensible to me. I certainly think it's an important film because most cinematic treatments of gay men involve angst-ridden urban professionals or flamboyant camp. I suspect that homophobia explains some but not all of the voting. I also suspect that homophilia explains a chunk in that some of the voters probably preferred a movie set in their back yard, focused on their neighbors.
Lee: I vote, but I take it with a grain of salt. Not just for African Americans, but just in general. You give an organization, some group, the power to validate your work of art — that can be paralyzing. ... “Malcolm X” was bigger than the Academy Awards. “Do the Right Thing” was bigger than the awards. We got two nominations for “Do the Right Thing.” I got a best original screenplay nomination. Danny Aiello got best supporting actor, and he lost to Denzel (Washington) in “Glory.” But you know what got best picture that year?
AP: Nope.
Lee: “Driving Miss Daisy.” “Do the Right Thing,” there are classes on that in universities all across the country. That film is still being watched. Every year it’s growing in stature. No one talks about “Driving Miss Daisy.” There’s nothing there.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:44 AM on March 13, 2006
To be honest, I've marveled most at BBM's quality and success in spite of the burden of having been in any way a "creative" product of E. Annie Proulx
And really, what the fuck kind of pretentious wank of a name is "E. Annie Proulx?"
I mean, what is the "E" for? "Edwina?" "Edna?"
If it's some atrocious old fashioned name starting with "E" that is unflattering, just fucking drop it completely. What's the matter with "Annie Proulx?"
It's not as if "Proulx" isn't weird and unique enough by itself.
That "E. Annie" shit is flat pretentious crap.
posted by stenseng at 7:44 AM on March 13, 2006
And really, what the fuck kind of pretentious wank of a name is "E. Annie Proulx?"
I mean, what is the "E" for? "Edwina?" "Edna?"
If it's some atrocious old fashioned name starting with "E" that is unflattering, just fucking drop it completely. What's the matter with "Annie Proulx?"
It's not as if "Proulx" isn't weird and unique enough by itself.
That "E. Annie" shit is flat pretentious crap.
posted by stenseng at 7:44 AM on March 13, 2006
I liked Brokebacl much better than Crash. But look at the winners for the past 20 years how many of them are even memorably good at this point in time. Gladiator, Dances with Wolves, Titanic, A Beautiful Mind, Brave Heart, and Driving Miss Daisy weren't even particularly well regarded at the time. Forest Gump is not the milestone that Pulp Fiction was. Only incidentally does the Academy give the award to a truly great movie.
"Lions Gate inundated the academy voters with DVD copies of Trash - excuse me - Crash" oh snap!
I honestly think Goodnight and Good Luck is the movie that people will recall most fondly. My favorite; The Weatherman.
posted by I Foody at 7:54 AM on March 13, 2006
"Lions Gate inundated the academy voters with DVD copies of Trash - excuse me - Crash" oh snap!
I honestly think Goodnight and Good Luck is the movie that people will recall most fondly. My favorite; The Weatherman.
posted by I Foody at 7:54 AM on March 13, 2006
Just goes to show that you can't make a gay cowboy movie unless they're eating pudding. No pudding = no Oscar.
posted by davelog at 7:57 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by davelog at 7:57 AM on March 13, 2006
This BS ranting is no different than some guy calling any women who rejects his advances a lesbian.
posted by HTuttle at 7:58 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by HTuttle at 7:58 AM on March 13, 2006
I was rooting for BBM. . .I have a gay kid, so it was sort of a "home team" interest. I thought that Good Night and Good Luck was the best movie though.
That said, what a CLASSLESS essay. . .I mean it puts her up there with Anne Rice for misplace self importance. I could maybe understand saying that stuff in an interview right afterwards. . but in an essay, that, one assumes, gets edited by the author and maybe several others. . .I mean, wasn't there someone who said, "hey, E. Annie, maybe you should reconsider having this published. It makes you appear rather small-minded."
posted by Danf at 7:58 AM on March 13, 2006
That said, what a CLASSLESS essay. . .I mean it puts her up there with Anne Rice for misplace self importance. I could maybe understand saying that stuff in an interview right afterwards. . but in an essay, that, one assumes, gets edited by the author and maybe several others. . .I mean, wasn't there someone who said, "hey, E. Annie, maybe you should reconsider having this published. It makes you appear rather small-minded."
posted by Danf at 7:58 AM on March 13, 2006
I thought Brokeback Mountain, as a film, was awful. It just seemed long and rambling to me, and I have a much greater appreciation for long, artful films than most. But Brokeback never affected me, and never elicited any emotion than vague annoyance.
But then again, I liked Crash,* so what do I know?
* That may have been because I didn't focus much on the racial elements, and instead just thought of it as the way people's lives interweave, how we affect each other, sometimes without realizing it.
posted by jefgodesky at 8:01 AM on March 13, 2006
But then again, I liked Crash,* so what do I know?
* That may have been because I didn't focus much on the racial elements, and instead just thought of it as the way people's lives interweave, how we affect each other, sometimes without realizing it.
posted by jefgodesky at 8:01 AM on March 13, 2006
Annie Proulx is boring as hell and I consider her partially responsible for the terrible state of modern American literary fiction.
Go to hell, Proulx, and take the Iowa Writers' Workshop with you.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:01 AM on March 13, 2006
Go to hell, Proulx, and take the Iowa Writers' Workshop with you.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:01 AM on March 13, 2006
That's an interesting interview KirkJobSluder, it really makes me wish that Spike Lee's movies were as good as he evidently believes them to be. While "X" and "Clockers" were perfectly fine (not great) movies, his master-work, "Do the Right Thing" might be the most overrated film of the last twenty years. This was a horrendously slow moving, sludgy mess of a film with relatively uninteresting characters weighed down further by Lee's own horrible wooden acting in a lead role as Mookie. I felt bad for Ossie Davis and Danny Aiello having to put up with such crappy dialog and character development.
If Lee were a better film maker, he might actually have a point, but as it is, he always comes across like's he's beating the drum for his own ego.
I really enjoyed reading "Postcards" and "The Shipping News" (didn't see the movie) so I'll be inclined to forgive Ms. Proulx for her self-serving and infantile rant about the Oscars. That "Trash, oh I meant Crash" bit was about the level of wit that one mostly encounters in alt.movies.rec. Hard to believe this is the same person that won a PEN/Faulkner and a Pulitzer.
posted by psmealey at 8:06 AM on March 13, 2006
If Lee were a better film maker, he might actually have a point, but as it is, he always comes across like's he's beating the drum for his own ego.
I really enjoyed reading "Postcards" and "The Shipping News" (didn't see the movie) so I'll be inclined to forgive Ms. Proulx for her self-serving and infantile rant about the Oscars. That "Trash, oh I meant Crash" bit was about the level of wit that one mostly encounters in alt.movies.rec. Hard to believe this is the same person that won a PEN/Faulkner and a Pulitzer.
posted by psmealey at 8:06 AM on March 13, 2006
How disappointing. I really like Brokeback Mountain, and I think Jake Gyllenhaal is a class act and I'd love to have seen him win just for that alone. (I've been incredibly impressed with the way he handled the press's incessant questions about what it was like to kiss a guy, haha, so funny.) Ang Lee has been nothing but classy and awesome as well. But this is totally lame.
I still really like Brokeback Mountain, though.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:09 AM on March 13, 2006
I still really like Brokeback Mountain, though.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:09 AM on March 13, 2006
God, that was worse than Ann Rice's post-Katrina meltdown. Hey, Annie: it's just a M-O-V-I-E.
posted by slatternus at 8:10 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by slatternus at 8:10 AM on March 13, 2006
""There's nothing wrong with coming in number two." - Bill Maher on Brokeback Mountain"
Wow. Maher actually said something funny.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:11 AM on March 13, 2006
Wow. Maher actually said something funny.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:11 AM on March 13, 2006
Guess when you're born, raised, schooled, and ensconced in the great white north it doesn't seem to be quite the issue anymore.
Huh? Your comment confuses me 8) Crash was written and directed by someone from Canada (the great white north) Brokeback was not.
Ang Lee has been nothing but classy and awesome as well.
Yah all that public bitching and moaning he's been doing since 5 minutes after the awards ceremony is just sooo classy, haha.
posted by zarah at 8:23 AM on March 13, 2006
Huh? Your comment confuses me 8) Crash was written and directed by someone from Canada (the great white north) Brokeback was not.
Ang Lee has been nothing but classy and awesome as well.
Yah all that public bitching and moaning he's been doing since 5 minutes after the awards ceremony is just sooo classy, haha.
posted by zarah at 8:23 AM on March 13, 2006
That may have been because I didn't focus much on the racial elements, and instead just thought of it as the way people's lives interweave, how we affect each other, sometimes without realizing it.
The movie you're really looking for is Robert Altman (and Raymond Carver's) Short Cuts. That movie is vastly superior to Crash and covers all that same ground in a much more nuanced and intelligent way.
posted by psmealey at 8:23 AM on March 13, 2006
The movie you're really looking for is Robert Altman (and Raymond Carver's) Short Cuts. That movie is vastly superior to Crash and covers all that same ground in a much more nuanced and intelligent way.
posted by psmealey at 8:23 AM on March 13, 2006
meh
posted by slimepuppy at 8:23 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by slimepuppy at 8:23 AM on March 13, 2006
Yah all that public bitching and moaning he's been doing since 5 minutes after the awards ceremony is just sooo classy, haha.
Huh? Totally missed that, sorry. I was thinking of the acceptance speech.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:26 AM on March 13, 2006
Huh? Totally missed that, sorry. I was thinking of the acceptance speech.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:26 AM on March 13, 2006
If you can find it, I recommend the discussion of Proulx's prose in "A Reader's Manifesto: An attack on the growing pretentiousness of American literary prose":
posted by salvia at 8:30 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by salvia at 8:30 AM on March 13, 2006
Crash was written and directed by someone from Canada
Who hasn't lived here since Trudead was in power -- the first time around. He's as much a Canadian filmmaker as James Cameron or Bernard Shakey.
posted by docgonzo at 8:30 AM on March 13, 2006
Who hasn't lived here since Trudead was in power -- the first time around. He's as much a Canadian filmmaker as James Cameron or Bernard Shakey.
posted by docgonzo at 8:30 AM on March 13, 2006
I liked Annie Proulx' sour grapes rant. Disappointment and failure on occasion are facts of life and I enjoyed her articulating her juicy bitterness, as ParisParamus mischievously put it, her persecution multiplex. Sometimes the-grace-while-failing thing seems cloyingly fake to me. George Clooney seemed embarassed about his presumption that he/his creation would be a shoo in and then playfully expressed his disappointment with a best supporting actor award, "All right, so I'm not winning director." Humor about failing can be pleasing to see and hear but in a way I found Proulx' expression more authentic, what it really feels like to be disappointed big time.
I thought the Oscars this year were weirdly off somehow, extra boring, even more 2-dimensional than usual. Both racism and homosexuality are topics that could benefit with mainstream movies for the people who supposedly voted in this president and I think Crash and Brokeback did that nicely. Esthetically, I greatly preferred Brokeback, which I thought was a hauntingly beautiful and poignant movie.
posted by nickyskye at 8:30 AM on March 13, 2006
I thought the Oscars this year were weirdly off somehow, extra boring, even more 2-dimensional than usual. Both racism and homosexuality are topics that could benefit with mainstream movies for the people who supposedly voted in this president and I think Crash and Brokeback did that nicely. Esthetically, I greatly preferred Brokeback, which I thought was a hauntingly beautiful and poignant movie.
posted by nickyskye at 8:30 AM on March 13, 2006
I'd just like to mention that sometimes bad writing can trigger good, or at least entertaining, writing -- roughly the first half of this thread has some of the most artfully composed comments I've ever read in a single place on MeFi. Entertaining in a faintly twee belles lettrist sort of way. Not unlike that sentence, I suppose.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:32 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:32 AM on March 13, 2006
I thought Lawrence Kasdan's Grand Canyon (Ebert review here) was a much better film.
posted by emelenjr at 8:39 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by emelenjr at 8:39 AM on March 13, 2006
I thought the Oscars this year were weirdly off somehow, extra boring, even more 2-dimensional than usual.
Let's face it, the sour grapes and the speculation about the political motivations of Oscar voters has become the entertainment. I think they should run it like federal elections, announce the results on the news networks and then cut to the embedded reporters in the various campaign offices.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:42 AM on March 13, 2006
Let's face it, the sour grapes and the speculation about the political motivations of Oscar voters has become the entertainment. I think they should run it like federal elections, announce the results on the news networks and then cut to the embedded reporters in the various campaign offices.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:42 AM on March 13, 2006
I think they should run it like federal elections, announce the results on the news networks and then cut to the embedded reporters in the various campaign offices.
I'd watch that, if only to hear Paul Haggis spluttering to E. Annie Proulx, "There's no need to get snippy!"
posted by Gator at 8:50 AM on March 13, 2006
I'd watch that, if only to hear Paul Haggis spluttering to E. Annie Proulx, "There's no need to get snippy!"
posted by Gator at 8:50 AM on March 13, 2006
Let's face it, the sour grapes and the speculation about the political motivations of Oscar voters has become the entertainment.
This is how you win the annual Oscar pool: Treat it like a very nasty, very cynical election campaign and check the Vegas odds. (They're playing with a helluva lot more than my measly fin; they gotta know what they're doing.)
As I am fond of saying while gathering my winnings from my friends from art/film-school: It's not who should have won, but who did win, that counts.
posted by docgonzo at 8:53 AM on March 13, 2006
This is how you win the annual Oscar pool: Treat it like a very nasty, very cynical election campaign and check the Vegas odds. (They're playing with a helluva lot more than my measly fin; they gotta know what they're doing.)
As I am fond of saying while gathering my winnings from my friends from art/film-school: It's not who should have won, but who did win, that counts.
posted by docgonzo at 8:53 AM on March 13, 2006
Huh? Your comment confuses me 8) Crash was written and directed by someone from Canada (the great white north) Brokeback was not.
Proulx grew up in Connecticut, schooled in Maine, and lives in Vermont. I count those (and the rest of new england for that matter) as the American division of the great white north.
posted by rkent at 8:56 AM on March 13, 2006
Proulx grew up in Connecticut, schooled in Maine, and lives in Vermont. I count those (and the rest of new england for that matter) as the American division of the great white north.
posted by rkent at 8:56 AM on March 13, 2006
My favorite; The Weatherman.
We just rented that and Lord of War over the weekend and I was rather surprised at how much I enjoyed both films.
Nic Cage was especially good in The Weatherman. I wonder how close to a nomination he came with that performance.
posted by NoMich at 8:56 AM on March 13, 2006
We just rented that and Lord of War over the weekend and I was rather surprised at how much I enjoyed both films.
Nic Cage was especially good in The Weatherman. I wonder how close to a nomination he came with that performance.
posted by NoMich at 8:56 AM on March 13, 2006
The movie you're really looking for is Robert Altman (and Raymond Carver's) Short Cuts. That movie is vastly superior to Crash and covers all that same ground in a much more nuanced and intelligent way.
Yeah, I liked Short Cuts, too. But I have to go with NoMich--I think I liked Lord of War more than Brokeback or Crash.
posted by jefgodesky at 9:05 AM on March 13, 2006
Yeah, I liked Short Cuts, too. But I have to go with NoMich--I think I liked Lord of War more than Brokeback or Crash.
posted by jefgodesky at 9:05 AM on March 13, 2006
I haven't seen brokeback, but wasn't it a fairly standard, if quality romantic movie except with gay people? If the story had been about heterosexuals, it probably wouldn't even have been nominated, or even noticed.
If the awards are for quality, and not social impact then it's totally reasonable to give the award to Crash, which was at least pretty interesting to watch if a little pointless (I thought it was preachy, but I liked it. Whatevs.)
posted by delmoi at 9:06 AM on March 13, 2006
If the awards are for quality, and not social impact then it's totally reasonable to give the award to Crash, which was at least pretty interesting to watch if a little pointless (I thought it was preachy, but I liked it. Whatevs.)
posted by delmoi at 9:06 AM on March 13, 2006
rkent: It's an interesting comment. Certainly "the great white north" is no stranger to racism. It's primarily that the American South was such a great scapegoat for racism that people in the North rarely bother to examine their own attitudes and beliefs, much less the economic patterns in their own back yard.
Although in general, urban/rural tends to trump other forms of regionalism.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 9:07 AM on March 13, 2006
Although in general, urban/rural tends to trump other forms of regionalism.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 9:07 AM on March 13, 2006
How disappointing. I really like Brokeback Mountain, and I think Jake Gyllenhaal is a class act and I'd love to have seen him win just for that alone.
That reminds me. Have you seen Jarhead? Friggin awesome movie. Way better then Crash, IMO, and also timely.
Awesome sound track too :)
posted by delmoi at 9:09 AM on March 13, 2006
That reminds me. Have you seen Jarhead? Friggin awesome movie. Way better then Crash, IMO, and also timely.
Awesome sound track too :)
posted by delmoi at 9:09 AM on March 13, 2006
I haven't seen brokeback, but...
With respect, delmoi, I am going to burst my truss if I see those five words at the start of any speculative statement about Brokeback ever again.
Get a DVD already!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 9:11 AM on March 13, 2006
With respect, delmoi, I am going to burst my truss if I see those five words at the start of any speculative statement about Brokeback ever again.
Get a DVD already!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 9:11 AM on March 13, 2006
Let me say it again: "Annie-Freakin-Hall?"
posted by blue_beetle at 9:12 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by blue_beetle at 9:12 AM on March 13, 2006
If you are looking for smart judging based on merit, skip the Academy Awards next year and pay attention to the Independent Spirit choices.
Is E. Annie forgetting already that the ISAs honored "Crash" as Best First Feature?
posted by killy willy at 9:13 AM on March 13, 2006
Is E. Annie forgetting already that the ISAs honored "Crash" as Best First Feature?
posted by killy willy at 9:13 AM on March 13, 2006
With respect, delmoi, I am going to burst my truss if I see those five words at the start of any speculative statement about Brokeback ever again.
Heh, that's a good point. However, I'm just curious, I mean, is what makes this movie great the movie itself or the social statement it makes?
posted by delmoi at 9:13 AM on March 13, 2006
Heh, that's a good point. However, I'm just curious, I mean, is what makes this movie great the movie itself or the social statement it makes?
posted by delmoi at 9:13 AM on March 13, 2006
The Academy Awards was bleak because cinema revenues are down, and President Bush is still President. Needless to say, I watched on AAs, and found them the best i've seen in years; even those columns on the stage were in surprising good taste.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:18 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by ParisParamus at 9:18 AM on March 13, 2006
Needless to say, I watched on AAs
?????????
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:32 AM CST on March 13 [!]
It's the latest thing... you stick a couple of AA batteries in your mouth and riiiide the power surge for a while. Pretty fun, but it's sort of a gateway drug towards keeping a 9-volt between your cheek and gums.
posted by COBRA! at 9:35 AM on March 13, 2006
?????????
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:32 AM CST on March 13 [!]
It's the latest thing... you stick a couple of AA batteries in your mouth and riiiide the power surge for a while. Pretty fun, but it's sort of a gateway drug towards keeping a 9-volt between your cheek and gums.
posted by COBRA! at 9:35 AM on March 13, 2006
Academy Awards.
(on my mom's television; not the one I don't own)
posted by ParisParamus at 9:36 AM on March 13, 2006
(on my mom's television; not the one I don't own)
posted by ParisParamus at 9:36 AM on March 13, 2006
Who hasn't lived here since Trudead was in power -- the first time around. He's as much a Canadian filmmaker as James Cameron or Bernard Shakey.
Wtf has that got to do with anything? It was the commenter's use of the expression great white north that I was asking about.
Proulx grew up in Connecticut, schooled in Maine, and lives in Vermont. I count those (and the rest of new england for that matter) as the American division of the great white north.
Well ok, but it's still an incorrect use of the expression, sure to confuse more than just the easily confusable such as myself.
I haven't seen brokeback, but wasn't it a fairly standard, if quality romantic movie except with gay people? If the story had been about heterosexuals, it probably wouldn't even have been nominated, or even noticed.
Yes, it was. I was bored throughout the entire flick, because as a rule love stories bore me. That the main characters were gay didn't make much of a difference. Someone mentioned (in another thread ) that it was annoying that Ennis could only earn redemption through the love of his daughter, and I felt that was a huge cop out too.
posted by zarah at 9:43 AM on March 13, 2006
Wtf has that got to do with anything? It was the commenter's use of the expression great white north that I was asking about.
Proulx grew up in Connecticut, schooled in Maine, and lives in Vermont. I count those (and the rest of new england for that matter) as the American division of the great white north.
Well ok, but it's still an incorrect use of the expression, sure to confuse more than just the easily confusable such as myself.
I haven't seen brokeback, but wasn't it a fairly standard, if quality romantic movie except with gay people? If the story had been about heterosexuals, it probably wouldn't even have been nominated, or even noticed.
Yes, it was. I was bored throughout the entire flick, because as a rule love stories bore me. That the main characters were gay didn't make much of a difference. Someone mentioned (in another thread ) that it was annoying that Ennis could only earn redemption through the love of his daughter, and I felt that was a huge cop out too.
posted by zarah at 9:43 AM on March 13, 2006
OMG!!!!! People that laugh at you behind closed doors for buying into their crap did something that made another person that laughs at you for spending money on their crap get upset!!!
The displaced children of Katrina weep for all you. Fuck Hollywood.
posted by mrblondemang at 9:47 AM on March 13, 2006
The displaced children of Katrina weep for all you. Fuck Hollywood.
posted by mrblondemang at 9:47 AM on March 13, 2006
Bitching in the papers does not constitute sour grapes. See: The Fox and the Sour Grapes
posted by ryanrs at 9:48 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by ryanrs at 9:48 AM on March 13, 2006
I dug Proulx's short story. And I dug the movie. As far as her rant, eh. So she's venting about not having won. Nobody here is paying her to be Sweet Polly Purebread.
Anyone ever watch McEnroe lose a game?
posted by darkstar at 9:52 AM on March 13, 2006
Anyone ever watch McEnroe lose a game?
posted by darkstar at 9:52 AM on March 13, 2006
Wtf has that got to do with anything?
I have a sore spot for the Canadian media's insistence on claiming everyone as a "Canadian artist" -- even if they simply got out of the plane and had a smoke at Gander -- whenever they are successful. To me, a Canadian filmmaker is not one who, say, makes ridiculously unsubtle and smack-in-the-face obvious diatribes about race in LA but happens to hold a Canuck passport; a Canadian filmmaker makes films in or about Canada.
posted by docgonzo at 10:22 AM on March 13, 2006
I have a sore spot for the Canadian media's insistence on claiming everyone as a "Canadian artist" -- even if they simply got out of the plane and had a smoke at Gander -- whenever they are successful. To me, a Canadian filmmaker is not one who, say, makes ridiculously unsubtle and smack-in-the-face obvious diatribes about race in LA but happens to hold a Canuck passport; a Canadian filmmaker makes films in or about Canada.
posted by docgonzo at 10:22 AM on March 13, 2006
> Bitching in the papers does not constitute sour grapes.
I took "sour grapes" here to mean "I didn't round up as many of the voters as I wanted, so therefore the voters are stupid and homophobic." That seems a pretty good Aesopian fit.
posted by jfuller at 10:23 AM on March 13, 2006
I took "sour grapes" here to mean "I didn't round up as many of the voters as I wanted, so therefore the voters are stupid and homophobic." That seems a pretty good Aesopian fit.
posted by jfuller at 10:23 AM on March 13, 2006
I have a sore spot for the Canadian media's insistence on claiming everyone as a "Canadian artist"
Thank you. If you want to be praised as a Canadian filmaker, make films in Canada.
posted by slatternus at 10:45 AM on March 13, 2006
Thank you. If you want to be praised as a Canadian filmaker, make films in Canada.
posted by slatternus at 10:45 AM on March 13, 2006
I have a sore spot for the Canadian media's insistence on claiming everyone as a "Canadian artist" -- even if they simply got out of the plane and had a smoke at Gander -- whenever they are successful.
Agreed. It doesn't sound patriotic or congratulatory. Just kind of pathetic. "Hey look! This person who made it big in the US is from Canada!" It's especially bad when artists here are ignored until they get some attention Stateside.
posted by palinode at 10:51 AM on March 13, 2006
Agreed. It doesn't sound patriotic or congratulatory. Just kind of pathetic. "Hey look! This person who made it big in the US is from Canada!" It's especially bad when artists here are ignored until they get some attention Stateside.
posted by palinode at 10:51 AM on March 13, 2006
It's the latest thing... you stick a couple of AA batteries in your mouth and riiiide the power surge for a while. Pretty fun, but it's sort of a gateway drug towards keeping a 9-volt between your cheek and gums.
Electric Gonorrea: The Silent Killer.
posted by Atreides at 11:05 AM on March 13, 2006
Electric Gonorrea: The Silent Killer.
posted by Atreides at 11:05 AM on March 13, 2006
Sour grapes: "Brokeback Mountain was not created to be a safe pick 'controversial film' for conservative heffalump academy voters. So of course none of the acting awards came Brokeback's way. Cheers Hoff-man, Hollywood loves mimicry."
posted by ryanrs at 11:11 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by ryanrs at 11:11 AM on March 13, 2006
If you want to be praised as a Canadian filmaker, make films in Canada. etc
That's ridiculous. Any filmmaker of any other nationality can go live and work anywhere in the world and not get dumped on for it. Whether you like it or not the guy was born in Canada. Why should Canadians be forced to work only at home to still be considered home grown? It really is at total odds with our multiculture; anyone can come live here, and we love them for it, but god forbid someone born here make their life somewhere else & still want to consider themselves Canadian. You bunch can't possibly be working in the industry, and if you are, well good luck to you, your careers will be short and obscure. If you're obscenely lucky.
posted by zarah at 11:13 AM on March 13, 2006
That's ridiculous. Any filmmaker of any other nationality can go live and work anywhere in the world and not get dumped on for it. Whether you like it or not the guy was born in Canada. Why should Canadians be forced to work only at home to still be considered home grown? It really is at total odds with our multiculture; anyone can come live here, and we love them for it, but god forbid someone born here make their life somewhere else & still want to consider themselves Canadian. You bunch can't possibly be working in the industry, and if you are, well good luck to you, your careers will be short and obscure. If you're obscenely lucky.
posted by zarah at 11:13 AM on March 13, 2006
"Don't Blame Me, I Voted For The Squid And The Whale"
Also, add me to the list of people tired of praising anyone with the most tenuous of Canadian connections. We have enough legitimate Canadian directors and actors that we don't need to also claim the likes of Paul Haggis, film director (though as the producer of Due South, there may always be a longshot case for Paul Haggis, television producer). Though sometimes the most interesting cases are the borderline ones—when was the last time Cronenberg did a movie you could really call Canadian? And what about Kiefer Sutherland's expressed desire to play Tommy Douglas in the upcoming CBC telemovie?
Favorite Canadian movie? Dance Me Outside.
posted by chrominance at 11:14 AM on March 13, 2006
Also, add me to the list of people tired of praising anyone with the most tenuous of Canadian connections. We have enough legitimate Canadian directors and actors that we don't need to also claim the likes of Paul Haggis, film director (though as the producer of Due South, there may always be a longshot case for Paul Haggis, television producer). Though sometimes the most interesting cases are the borderline ones—when was the last time Cronenberg did a movie you could really call Canadian? And what about Kiefer Sutherland's expressed desire to play Tommy Douglas in the upcoming CBC telemovie?
Favorite Canadian movie? Dance Me Outside.
posted by chrominance at 11:14 AM on March 13, 2006
Awesome.
Annie Proulx sounds exactly like my son's eight year old friends exclaiming, "You... you... stupidhead! I don't want that ugly [fill in the blank] anyways!" after he refuses to let them keep his toys.
I would have enjoyed seeing Good Night and Good Luck win Best Picture but what are you gonna do?
posted by nuala at 11:16 AM on March 13, 2006
Annie Proulx sounds exactly like my son's eight year old friends exclaiming, "You... you... stupidhead! I don't want that ugly [fill in the blank] anyways!" after he refuses to let them keep his toys.
I would have enjoyed seeing Good Night and Good Luck win Best Picture but what are you gonna do?
posted by nuala at 11:16 AM on March 13, 2006
I happened to read Brokeback Mountain right before (coincidentally) reading a gay cowboy story in Funeral Party II.
Where one is gritty, evocative, and sexy the other is hollow. When given these two stories as options Brokeback Mountain quite clearly becomes the safe and conservative choice.
Luckily, there is only Crash and BBM in her worldview so that she gets to remain liberal and daring. Lest she ever have to stand beside greatness.
posted by birdie birdington at 11:23 AM on March 13, 2006
Where one is gritty, evocative, and sexy the other is hollow. When given these two stories as options Brokeback Mountain quite clearly becomes the safe and conservative choice.
Luckily, there is only Crash and BBM in her worldview so that she gets to remain liberal and daring. Lest she ever have to stand beside greatness.
posted by birdie birdington at 11:23 AM on March 13, 2006
On post-post (hee hee): Why should Canadians be forced to work only at home to still be considered home grown? That's not quite it. If you don't work in Canada, don't live in Canada, haven't lived in Canada for a long time, and don't really care either way about the country anymore, are you still Canadian? Yes, by all means, feel free to call yourself a Canadian filmmaker, just as M. Night Shyamalan is an Indian filmmaker. But when a star's success is almost entirely a product of the American movie system, it seems silly to retroactively claim that person as a Canadian, as if their Canadian identity really had anything to do with it.
posted by chrominance at 11:30 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by chrominance at 11:30 AM on March 13, 2006
It boils down to the fact that they left Canada, for whatever reason - they wanted big bucks, the hollywood glamour, the access to a big audience, or they just hated the winters - because Canada wasn't good enough for them. Fair enough. But a lot of these expatriates want it both ways. They want the big Hollywood film biz lifestyle, but they also want the safety net of "being Canadian" that allows them to think they inhabit some lofty height, distanced from the vulgar excesses of Hollywood culture they spent their years as struggling Canadian filmakers despising.
posted by slatternus at 11:45 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by slatternus at 11:45 AM on March 13, 2006
Why should Canadians be forced to work only at home to still be considered home grown?
Because the only reason their Canadian-ness is being touted is so they will get press here in Canada. Do you think they're going on about their Canadian heritage to the Los Angeles Times and other USA'n press?
It's not an issue and is of no importance regarding Crash. It's a marketing ploy to get ink in Canada. Keep lapping it up, Zarah.
You bunch can't possibly be working in the industry, and if you are, well good luck to you, your careers will be short and obscure. If you're obscenely lucky.
*rolls eyes*
I think this idiotic comment earns you a seat at the top of your own asshole list.
posted by dobbs at 11:52 AM on March 13, 2006
Because the only reason their Canadian-ness is being touted is so they will get press here in Canada. Do you think they're going on about their Canadian heritage to the Los Angeles Times and other USA'n press?
It's not an issue and is of no importance regarding Crash. It's a marketing ploy to get ink in Canada. Keep lapping it up, Zarah.
You bunch can't possibly be working in the industry, and if you are, well good luck to you, your careers will be short and obscure. If you're obscenely lucky.
*rolls eyes*
I think this idiotic comment earns you a seat at the top of your own asshole list.
posted by dobbs at 11:52 AM on March 13, 2006
And another thing (waves palsied fist, clutches geritol bottle) I can see why a Canadian filmaker would find it frustrating trying to get work done here, facing the prospect of a lifetime spent chasing after Telefilm grants, and trying to convince Canadian investors that movies are worth making. But if you go, GO. Don't come back and accept a Juno award for "best Canadian Director" or whatever for a film scripted, financed, made and marketted in another country.
posted by slatternus at 11:58 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by slatternus at 11:58 AM on March 13, 2006
Even the somewhat boring story of RENT was better than Brokeback. I mean, Its just a story about 2 people cheating on their spouses. Havent we see that story 1000 times before?
posted by Megafly at 12:07 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Megafly at 12:07 PM on March 13, 2006
I haven't believed the Academy Award was about merit since Jason X was slighted.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:26 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:26 PM on March 13, 2006
Actually the best Canadian film of last year was CRAZY, but it didn't even get a nomination.
posted by clevershark at 12:26 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by clevershark at 12:26 PM on March 13, 2006
delmoi: The movie. It was a wonderful movie, despite the people who prefer terminally boring liberal biopics (GNAGL) or rehashed sub-Altman. The story was damn good, too. But Proulx sure isn't doing herself any favors with that piece. Somebody should have talked her out of publishing it.
Its just a story about 2 people cheating on their spouses.
Right, and Alien is just a story about some aliens, and The Godfather is just a story about some mobsters, and Moby Dick is just a book about a whale. We can do this all day, if we haven't got anything better to do.
*wonders what many film experts he respects saw in Caché*
posted by languagehat at 12:36 PM on March 13, 2006
Its just a story about 2 people cheating on their spouses.
Right, and Alien is just a story about some aliens, and The Godfather is just a story about some mobsters, and Moby Dick is just a book about a whale. We can do this all day, if we haven't got anything better to do.
*wonders what many film experts he respects saw in Caché*
posted by languagehat at 12:36 PM on March 13, 2006
Why should Canadians be forced to work only at home to still be considered home grown?
Listen real closely -- or, actually, just listen -- and that giant sucking sound you hear is the U.S. of A. pulling our talent south.* That is why it is all the more important to insist that filmmakers we define as our own are making Canadian films and telling Canadian stories. (And note that that definition is, to me, as catholic as possible; from C.R.A.Z.Y. to Water.)
I don't begrudge people going south if that's where they want to go. But don't pretend there is anything Canadian about Mr. Haggis -- or Mr. Cronenburg -- for that matter. Further proof of my theory the only autonomous culture in Canada happens in Quebec.
* Icky double-entendre unintended.
posted by docgonzo at 12:37 PM on March 13, 2006
Listen real closely -- or, actually, just listen -- and that giant sucking sound you hear is the U.S. of A. pulling our talent south.* That is why it is all the more important to insist that filmmakers we define as our own are making Canadian films and telling Canadian stories. (And note that that definition is, to me, as catholic as possible; from C.R.A.Z.Y. to Water.)
I don't begrudge people going south if that's where they want to go. But don't pretend there is anything Canadian about Mr. Haggis -- or Mr. Cronenburg -- for that matter. Further proof of my theory the only autonomous culture in Canada happens in Quebec.
* Icky double-entendre unintended.
posted by docgonzo at 12:37 PM on March 13, 2006
I'll say it again, film makers et al from other countries don't have this gotta be 100% at home doing home grown projects bullshit thrown at them. It's all about the low self esteem a lot of Canadians have I suppose. Of course someone may use it as a marketting ploy (I haven't seen the crash director in any interviews) but so what? Fact remains, he was born in Canada & he can mention it however he sees fit. It definitely rankles that outsiders would set up rules saying how and when I'm allowed to be tied to my country of origin. I've always worked outside of Canada more than inside, that's the nature of the business & how many opportunities there are here. How many more jobs am I allowed to take before you come conficscate my right to say I'm a Canuck?
dobbs, you're so bitter! And I'm loving it! :D
posted by zarah at 12:54 PM on March 13, 2006
dobbs, you're so bitter! And I'm loving it! :D
posted by zarah at 12:54 PM on March 13, 2006
I'm not bitter. I just think you're in idiot. There's a difference.
posted by dobbs at 1:02 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by dobbs at 1:02 PM on March 13, 2006
Where's my Academy Award, I asks you! Best short subjects, my ass.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:03 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:03 PM on March 13, 2006
Oscar, I wish I could quit you.
Don't blame me, I voted for Brokeback Kong
posted by soulhuntre at 1:03 PM on March 13, 2006
Don't blame me, I voted for Brokeback Kong
posted by soulhuntre at 1:03 PM on March 13, 2006
Actually, I suppose I should correct myself: I don't think you're an idiot. I don't know you. However, you say a lot of idiotic things and they always have to do with the Canadian film industry.
/clarification
posted by dobbs at 1:08 PM on March 13, 2006
/clarification
posted by dobbs at 1:08 PM on March 13, 2006
I'm not bitter. I just think you're in idiot. There's a difference.
Yah, well, I'm the idiot on the other side of the door that you're still trying to get your foot wedged in. Funny, you being in this argument at all, what with your lack of love for Canadian film.
posted by zarah at 1:10 PM on March 13, 2006
Yah, well, I'm the idiot on the other side of the door that you're still trying to get your foot wedged in. Funny, you being in this argument at all, what with your lack of love for Canadian film.
posted by zarah at 1:10 PM on March 13, 2006
Well, actually, at least one of the newsworthy aspects that always comes up with Peter Jackson has been his efforts to put money and recognition into N.Z.-based production companies. On the other hand, with U.S. production costs being what they are, the film industry is multinational with an "American" film as likely to have large segments filmed in Canada, Australia, and England as the U.S.. This goes back to the 70s with the principal photography for Star Wars, Superman and Alien done in England and Canada. (To complicate matters Brokeback was also filmed in Canada.)
posted by KirkJobSluder at 1:18 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by KirkJobSluder at 1:18 PM on March 13, 2006
For someone who has so much contempt for the Academy Awards, she seems awfully unhappy about losing.
posted by apple scruff at 3:12 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by apple scruff at 3:12 PM on March 13, 2006
you're so bitter! And I'm loving it! :D
LOL
For someone who has so much contempt for the Academy Awards, she seems awfully unhappy about losing.
Yup, you're right. That's why the grapes are called sour.
posted by nickyskye at 3:23 PM on March 13, 2006
LOL
For someone who has so much contempt for the Academy Awards, she seems awfully unhappy about losing.
Yup, you're right. That's why the grapes are called sour.
posted by nickyskye at 3:23 PM on March 13, 2006
Fact remains, he was born in Canada & he can mention it however he sees fit.
I'm complaining about the media calling everyone Canadian, not the filmmakers themselves.
Read my fucking words, you twat.
posted by docgonzo at 4:45 PM on March 13, 2006
I'm complaining about the media calling everyone Canadian, not the filmmakers themselves.
Read my fucking words, you twat.
posted by docgonzo at 4:45 PM on March 13, 2006
languagehat : "*wonders what many film experts he respects saw in Caché*"
I could not agree with languagehat more. The film had a good premise (someone's taping a family, and leaving them the tapes). But, is it possible for a film to move slower? How about a damn ending? Someone tell me why I shouldn't boycott Haneke for this.
My favorite movie of the year was The Squid and the Whale. But I haven't seen Weatherman yet, and I want to.
posted by graventy at 5:15 PM on March 13, 2006
I could not agree with languagehat more. The film had a good premise (someone's taping a family, and leaving them the tapes). But, is it possible for a film to move slower? How about a damn ending? Someone tell me why I shouldn't boycott Haneke for this.
My favorite movie of the year was The Squid and the Whale. But I haven't seen Weatherman yet, and I want to.
posted by graventy at 5:15 PM on March 13, 2006
I'd just like to say once again that "Crash" was an awful, terrible, horrendous movie. Overblown, crass, heavy-handed, unrealistic, preachy, immature and thoroughly fucking stupid. You'd have to be a witless, superficial, know-nothing oaf of the most egregious kind to be impressed by that noisy, self-important, sub-sixth-form twaddle.
I haven't seen "Brokeback" but I find it impossible to imagine that it's not a better film than "Crash".
posted by Decani at 5:31 PM on March 13, 2006
I haven't seen "Brokeback" but I find it impossible to imagine that it's not a better film than "Crash".
posted by Decani at 5:31 PM on March 13, 2006
graventy writes 'But, is it possible for a film to move slower? How about a damn ending?'
Dude, you so missed the point.
posted by signal at 6:16 PM on March 13, 2006
Dude, you so missed the point.
posted by signal at 6:16 PM on March 13, 2006
What was the point? The steadily building tension? At a certain point, tension becomes boredom when nothing happens. Please tell me.
posted by graventy at 6:37 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by graventy at 6:37 PM on March 13, 2006
The only thing I like about this article, is the fact that Ms. Proulx's prose seems to suck just as much in her journalistic work as in her fiction.
posted by kaiseki at 7:31 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by kaiseki at 7:31 PM on March 13, 2006
My favorite Canadian movie is Jeremy Podeswa's The Five Senses. I think maybe 10 people saw that movie.
posted by pieoverdone at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by pieoverdone at 7:36 PM on March 13, 2006
Two for each sense!
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:18 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:18 PM on March 13, 2006
graventy writes 'What was the point? The steadily building tension? At a certain point, tension becomes boredom when nothing happens.'
Nothing happening is what happens.
pieoverdone writes 'Jeremy Podeswa's The Five Senses. I think maybe 10 people saw that movie.'
I was one of them, and liked it a lot. Of course, Mary-Louise Parker was in it, so I'm biased.
posted by signal at 8:39 PM on March 13, 2006
Nothing happening is what happens.
pieoverdone writes 'Jeremy Podeswa's The Five Senses. I think maybe 10 people saw that movie.'
I was one of them, and liked it a lot. Of course, Mary-Louise Parker was in it, so I'm biased.
posted by signal at 8:39 PM on March 13, 2006
Zarah, I've noticed this fixation you have with what you presume are dobbs' filmmaking ambitions. You've asserted before that dobbs is some sort of bitter, unworthy, Hollywood reject, while you, meanwhile, have enjoyed great successes in the "industry". Can you share with us what exactly you've done to merit this cinematic throne from which you squawk? And why dobbs' career efforts earn your mockery?
posted by soiled cowboy at 8:49 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by soiled cowboy at 8:49 PM on March 13, 2006
I read somewheres, possibly in the very New Yorker that published Proulx's story, that her first fiction stories were published in some pulp detective/crime genre magazine with the byline E. A. Proulx to disguise her gender. Nobody takes detective/crime fiction seriously when it's written by a broad, yo! When she decided to come out as a female (which I commend her for, darnit, and hope to have the courage to do the same someday), she started writing as E. Annie Proulx.
Just to clear that little bit up from way up-thread.
Sorry to interrupt. You can continue arguing about Canada now.
posted by Zendogg at 9:48 PM on March 13, 2006
Just to clear that little bit up from way up-thread.
Sorry to interrupt. You can continue arguing about Canada now.
posted by Zendogg at 9:48 PM on March 13, 2006
Decani -- I agree I didn't like Crash. Brokeback was a much, much better film IMHO.
Someone once said that art should defy paraphrase. My problem with Crash was how readily it yielded to paraphrase. Roger Ebert summed it up in one sentence: [It's] "about how racism works not only top down but sideways, and how in different situations, we are all capable of behaving shamefully." At the end of it, I thought well thanks for the civics lesson.
Brokeback Mountain, hype aside, was an outstanding movie with real emotional content and certainly Oscar worthy (I say this even though the Oscars almost never get best picture right -- that's a whole other thread).
I didn't see the other contenders for best pic, but as between Crash and Brokeback, the latter was a much better movie. Easy gay jokes notwithstanding, it passes the no paraphrase rule: It's not exactly a gay rights movie -- both characters are deeply ambivalent about their relationship. It's not exactly a love story because the two main characters hardly ever see one another during the twenty years the film covers.
Even calling it a gay cowboy movie is wrong; technically they were shephards. Just had to throw that in.
posted by Toecutter at 10:03 PM on March 13, 2006
Someone once said that art should defy paraphrase. My problem with Crash was how readily it yielded to paraphrase. Roger Ebert summed it up in one sentence: [It's] "about how racism works not only top down but sideways, and how in different situations, we are all capable of behaving shamefully." At the end of it, I thought well thanks for the civics lesson.
Brokeback Mountain, hype aside, was an outstanding movie with real emotional content and certainly Oscar worthy (I say this even though the Oscars almost never get best picture right -- that's a whole other thread).
I didn't see the other contenders for best pic, but as between Crash and Brokeback, the latter was a much better movie. Easy gay jokes notwithstanding, it passes the no paraphrase rule: It's not exactly a gay rights movie -- both characters are deeply ambivalent about their relationship. It's not exactly a love story because the two main characters hardly ever see one another during the twenty years the film covers.
Even calling it a gay cowboy movie is wrong; technically they were shephards. Just had to throw that in.
posted by Toecutter at 10:03 PM on March 13, 2006
It's funny, I went and saw Crash _because_ of the utter lovefest it got right here in a previous thread. Recently in every movie discussion here it has been panned.
For what it's worth, I thought Crash was pretty good, Brokeback Mountain was boring, and neither was the best movie of the year.
posted by markr at 10:06 PM on March 13, 2006
For what it's worth, I thought Crash was pretty good, Brokeback Mountain was boring, and neither was the best movie of the year.
posted by markr at 10:06 PM on March 13, 2006
Nothing happening is what happens.
Ah, well then, that explains it.
I actually don't mind movies in which "nothing happens"; some of my favorite movies fit that description to one degree or another. I do mind movies that pretend to be thrillers and then it turns out the alleged plot doesn't make any sense and it's all some sort of stew of vague anti-colonialism and hip postmodernism. I love Auteuil and Binoche, and the movie was beautifully shot and played the suspense game nicely, but in the end it turned out to be a waste of a couple of hours.
But then I don't like "comedians" whose shtick is not being funny, either.
posted by languagehat at 5:15 AM on March 14, 2006
Ah, well then, that explains it.
I actually don't mind movies in which "nothing happens"; some of my favorite movies fit that description to one degree or another. I do mind movies that pretend to be thrillers and then it turns out the alleged plot doesn't make any sense and it's all some sort of stew of vague anti-colonialism and hip postmodernism. I love Auteuil and Binoche, and the movie was beautifully shot and played the suspense game nicely, but in the end it turned out to be a waste of a couple of hours.
But then I don't like "comedians" whose shtick is not being funny, either.
posted by languagehat at 5:15 AM on March 14, 2006
So, what I'm gathering is that most people don't think that Brokeback Mountain OR Crash are best picture worthy. However, what I'm noticing is that I'm hardly seeing any acknowledgement of which movies are better. Speak up, MeFi...which movie WAS the best of 2005?
posted by byort at 5:58 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by byort at 5:58 AM on March 14, 2006
"Most people"? Where are you getting that? My experience (and I know a number of people obsessed with movies) is that most people do indeed think one or the other of those was the best (I'm a Brokeback man, myself). A few people sounding off in a MeFi thread do not represent "most people."
posted by languagehat at 6:10 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by languagehat at 6:10 AM on March 14, 2006
I'm reading the comments...also, most people I know similarly obsessed with movies would agree with my statement. It's probably who we hang out with, regional differences, or just a disagreement. I've got nothing against either movie, so let me rephrase so as not to offend.
If you didn't think that Brokeback Mountain or Crash was the best movie (or that the best picture wasn't even nominated), what was the best picture of 2005?
posted by byort at 6:56 AM on March 14, 2006
If you didn't think that Brokeback Mountain or Crash was the best movie (or that the best picture wasn't even nominated), what was the best picture of 2005?
posted by byort at 6:56 AM on March 14, 2006
It wasn't Mirrormask.
posted by Captaintripps at 7:00 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by Captaintripps at 7:00 AM on March 14, 2006
soiled cowboy, thanks for the post, but it's really not needed. zarah seems to be a bit of a nut with a hate on for me because I occasionally diss the Canadian film industry, which s/he seems to think means I've been rejected by it. I haven't, as I've never attempted (ever) to work in it.
Now, if zarah is a screenwriter working in the USA, s/he may have a case as I have mentioned that I annually enter the Nicholl Fellowship, but if that is what s/he means by my trying to wedge my foot in the door of the industry, well I think that's quite a stretch. Outside of that contest, I've done nothing to break into the American market.
But yes, you're right, Zarah does seem to have a pretty big (and presumptious) mouth for someone who refuses to list his/her credits, which is par for the course for the "theatre students" I've met.
posted by dobbs at 7:35 AM on March 14, 2006
Now, if zarah is a screenwriter working in the USA, s/he may have a case as I have mentioned that I annually enter the Nicholl Fellowship, but if that is what s/he means by my trying to wedge my foot in the door of the industry, well I think that's quite a stretch. Outside of that contest, I've done nothing to break into the American market.
But yes, you're right, Zarah does seem to have a pretty big (and presumptious) mouth for someone who refuses to list his/her credits, which is par for the course for the "theatre students" I've met.
posted by dobbs at 7:35 AM on March 14, 2006
Just find somewhere private and make out for a while, dobbs and Zarah. You know this is where this is heading.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2006
Toecutter: Even calling it a gay cowboy movie is wrong; technically they were shephards. Just had to throw that in.
Well, I'd say that the term "cowboy" in an entertainment context hasn't strictly meant a person who works with cattle on horseback since Buffalo Bill created a Wild West circus with a quaker woman from Cincinnati as the star attraction. "Cowboy movie" has pretty much become synonymous with "western."
But I'd make an argument for it as a "cowboy movie" even in the more limited sense of the term because of a feature anished. that is overshadowed by the gay romance theme. Brokeback like the 1961 film The Misfits describes the romantic "cowboy" as an obsolete profession. The characters are thwarted not only in their relationships, but also in their desire to live a vanishing lifestyle.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:04 AM on March 14, 2006
Well, I'd say that the term "cowboy" in an entertainment context hasn't strictly meant a person who works with cattle on horseback since Buffalo Bill created a Wild West circus with a quaker woman from Cincinnati as the star attraction. "Cowboy movie" has pretty much become synonymous with "western."
But I'd make an argument for it as a "cowboy movie" even in the more limited sense of the term because of a feature anished. that is overshadowed by the gay romance theme. Brokeback like the 1961 film The Misfits describes the romantic "cowboy" as an obsolete profession. The characters are thwarted not only in their relationships, but also in their desire to live a vanishing lifestyle.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:04 AM on March 14, 2006
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posted by rxrfrx at 4:31 AM on March 13, 2006