Location of Ark of Covenant and Holly Grail..
January 2, 2001 8:27 AM Subscribe
Location of Ark of Covenant and Holly Grail.. possibly narrowed down .. involves nights of the Templar, inscriptions on columns, NAZI searches and other Indiana Jones (Monty Python?) like adventure.
I'm curious, tranquileye, what was the Grail, really, if not a cup? I thought it was the cup that Jesus drank from and shared with his disciples during their passover dinner before he was crucified.
Since most of my knowledge of both the Ark and the Grail is based on the Indiana Jones movies, I'm not really familiar with their true history.
posted by daveadams at 9:02 AM on January 2, 2001
Since most of my knowledge of both the Ark and the Grail is based on the Indiana Jones movies, I'm not really familiar with their true history.
posted by daveadams at 9:02 AM on January 2, 2001
Apparently "Holy Grail" is a mistranslation of an early French phrase meaning "Royal Blood" and that there is no cup, just a secret society of men dedicated to protecting Jesus' bloodline.
What, you say? Bloodline? Yes, this guy says that he has also discovered documents indicating that Jesus married Mary Magdelene and had children with her, or a child, or something.
posted by annathea at 9:14 AM on January 2, 2001
What, you say? Bloodline? Yes, this guy says that he has also discovered documents indicating that Jesus married Mary Magdelene and had children with her, or a child, or something.
posted by annathea at 9:14 AM on January 2, 2001
What a load of complete tosh - as my flatmate's uncle apparently likes to say.
posted by Mocata at 9:21 AM on January 2, 2001
posted by Mocata at 9:21 AM on January 2, 2001
Ah, but it's fun tosh. For a real ride, try giving Holy Blood, Holy Grail by Michael Baigent a read. It's a great mystery story on its own merit.
posted by frykitty at 9:37 AM on January 2, 2001
posted by frykitty at 9:37 AM on January 2, 2001
Hence the origins of the Masons - who are said to toil for the Widow's son. The Widow being Magadelene.
The Holy Grail is interpreted to be the descendent(s) of Christ.
The various hermetic organizations (Rosicrucians, Templars, Order of the Golden Dawn - of which the late poet W.B. Yeats a member) have fascinating histories.
posted by gsh at 10:01 AM on January 2, 2001
The Holy Grail is interpreted to be the descendent(s) of Christ.
The various hermetic organizations (Rosicrucians, Templars, Order of the Golden Dawn - of which the late poet W.B. Yeats a member) have fascinating histories.
posted by gsh at 10:01 AM on January 2, 2001
I can feel the dead hand of Frances Yates on my shoulder - very Foucault's Pendulum.
posted by Mocata at 10:15 AM on January 2, 2001
posted by Mocata at 10:15 AM on January 2, 2001
Of course, the movie Dogma added its own little wrinkle to the whole "bloodline of Christ" discussion...last scion, and all that. Tosh, perhaps, but fun tosh indeed!
posted by ChrisTN at 10:27 AM on January 2, 2001
posted by ChrisTN at 10:27 AM on January 2, 2001
The grail, of grail legend, in one theory was not either, but a cauldron. Medieval lore is littered with cauldrons other large vessels that are referred to as grails.
These are intended to have magical properties such as rendering unlimited supplies of food, ressurecting the dead, and empowering potions for spells and such.
The first grail legend was written by Chretien de Troyes (1180-1190) that we would associate with our sentiment towards the concept of the holy grail... however, to him Grail was often called Sangreal, which literally means "Holy Grail"... hence, the reference to the sanguine, or blood. In his story, the grail is not a cup, but a large platter or plate....
It is from the french poet Robert de Boron that we get the first description of the grail as a chalice in which Christ took wine at the last supper. Also, in his version... at the crucifixion, Joseph of Arimathea caught the blood of Christ with it.
So, there are an awful lot of ideas about what the grail actually was... we do, however, know it to be a creation of one man's mind... it could be argued that he collected the spoken tradition and put it to words that we now possess, but then again... the entire bible is written based on that construct as well, which is faith. Therefore, I don't feel that this is any more myth than the bible, or other tennant of faith.
The Templars and other groups entered into the picture much, much later (1250-1310)... therefore have been able to create their own interpretations of this myth.
posted by Dean_Paxton at 10:35 AM on January 2, 2001
These are intended to have magical properties such as rendering unlimited supplies of food, ressurecting the dead, and empowering potions for spells and such.
The first grail legend was written by Chretien de Troyes (1180-1190) that we would associate with our sentiment towards the concept of the holy grail... however, to him Grail was often called Sangreal, which literally means "Holy Grail"... hence, the reference to the sanguine, or blood. In his story, the grail is not a cup, but a large platter or plate....
It is from the french poet Robert de Boron that we get the first description of the grail as a chalice in which Christ took wine at the last supper. Also, in his version... at the crucifixion, Joseph of Arimathea caught the blood of Christ with it.
So, there are an awful lot of ideas about what the grail actually was... we do, however, know it to be a creation of one man's mind... it could be argued that he collected the spoken tradition and put it to words that we now possess, but then again... the entire bible is written based on that construct as well, which is faith. Therefore, I don't feel that this is any more myth than the bible, or other tennant of faith.
The Templars and other groups entered into the picture much, much later (1250-1310)... therefore have been able to create their own interpretations of this myth.
posted by Dean_Paxton at 10:35 AM on January 2, 2001
Oh, and the head of Christ is buried in the crypt of Rosslyn Chapel, too. Ahem.
posted by holgate at 12:11 PM on January 2, 2001
posted by holgate at 12:11 PM on January 2, 2001
To me, it's all fascinating. All these theories and imaginings and interpretations. And it's strange to see which ones capture the general imagination. After all, the dogmas about the Virgin Mary were public creations that the Vatican was forced to accept, instead of the usual other way around.
But I can read Templar theory any old day of the week. This stuff rocks.
posted by solistrato at 12:13 PM on January 2, 2001
But I can read Templar theory any old day of the week. This stuff rocks.
posted by solistrato at 12:13 PM on January 2, 2001
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posted by tranquileye at 8:36 AM on January 2, 2001