Sophisticated Guitar Virtuosity
May 31, 2006 5:49 AM   Subscribe

Guitar Virtuosity with feeling and sophistication... I forgot just how good a guitarist Allan Holdsworth is. A similar player is Scott Henderson, who these days is much more in touch with his blues/funk roots. His outside playing is delicious. Notice how they both build up their solos instead of starting off with all guns blazing with nowhere to go.
posted by BobsterLobster (28 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
I met Allan Holdsworth years ago when he was doing a guitar clinic at the Renfrew Ferry. Very nice chap (and he reminded me of Professor Falken from War Games) and he has amazing chops.

I haven't listened to any of his stuff in a while but I enjoyed Wardenclyffe Tower.
posted by bouncebounce at 6:23 AM on May 31, 2006


<Jazz Club>Nice.</Jazz Club>

So, are we meant to have this debate again, so soon?
posted by jack_mo at 6:45 AM on May 31, 2006


Sounds someone dropped a cat on a guitar. Difficult? I wish it were impossible!
posted by breakfast_yeti at 6:49 AM on May 31, 2006


Seriously, this is all so subjective; to me, Holdsworth (and many other progressive jazz guitarists) sound like random noodling up & down scale charts.
posted by jonson at 6:52 AM on May 31, 2006


don't say "delicious."
posted by Shike at 6:54 AM on May 31, 2006


Sounds someone dropped a cat on a guitar.


posted by jack_mo at 6:56 AM on May 31, 2006 [2 favorites]


It may not be so obvious from the above video clip, but Allan has made a huge impact on guitar playing itself. One reason for this is because he was a huge inspiration, perhaps akin to a "tipping point", for Eddie VH, who of course has influenced players all over the globe immensely. In these terms - sheer influence - via being extremely original - I personally hold Holdsworth in the "elite" of guitarists - up there with Django, Jimi and the aforementioned Eddie.
posted by bowbrush at 7:03 AM on May 31, 2006


wow, jack_mo...I checked out that metafilter discussion you
linked to...all over the map...flabbergastingly useless car-wreck gazing internet time-wasting mess.

Can there be an intelligent discussion about the relative merits of these two guitarists on The Blue? No, I guess not. Do some reading about "aethetics" or "taste" and then come back and argue if you still feel like it.

Or maybe we could start a thread about: Cilantro: Ambrosia or The Devil's Herb?
posted by kozad at 7:07 AM on May 31, 2006


Noodly noodly.
posted by parki at 7:08 AM on May 31, 2006


Notice how they both build up their solos instead of starting off with all guns blazing with nowhere to go.

I'm sorry, but for me it just starts slow and then goes nowhere.

And I liked that Chinese guy.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:17 AM on May 31, 2006


I always wondered where EVH got his inspiration from... his style seemed to come out of nowhere. I didn't realise Holdsworth has been around that long.
posted by BobsterLobster at 7:18 AM on May 31, 2006


Sure they're good, but can they get five stars on More Than A Feeling on Expert?
posted by Simon! at 7:21 AM on May 31, 2006


If Holdsworth wrote songs titled things like "spaghetti with meat sauce" you'd be like "listen to that, you can almost taste the garlic"
posted by breakfast_yeti at 7:38 AM on May 31, 2006


I'v got a fever and the only perscrtiption is:

"More Cilantro"!!
posted by humboldt32 at 7:38 AM on May 31, 2006


I checked out that metafilter discussion you
linked to...all over the map...flabbergastingly useless car-wreck gazing internet time-wasting mess.


Says you! Jeez, I think it's an interesting thing to talk about. Lots of guitar playing posts recently, huh?

I'm not into his music, but Holdsworth is a great player. He's big on legato stuff, which I guess is part of his influence on EVH.

Holdsworth (and many other progressive jazz guitarists) sound like random noodling up & down scale charts.

I know you qualified that as your subjective opinion, and I'm not trying to pick on you, jonson, but that seems kind of like saying "People speaking Chinese sound like they're just making up random gibberish syllables." When of course it just sounds that way to me because I don't speak Chinese.

I took lessons from this guy for awhile several years back, when I was still into being an adept guitar player. He played some nutso stuff in the vein of these guys.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:15 AM on May 31, 2006


kozad said 'flabbergastingly useless car-wreck gazing internet time-wasting mess'

I dunno, there was some worthwhile stuff in there once folk got away from the 'your favourite way of understanding the nature of muscical performace sucks' type stuff. You just have to squint very hard and look at the thread sideways to see it.
posted by jack_mo at 8:16 AM on May 31, 2006


Oh, and I only mentioned it becuase this seems to be a continuation of the arguments in that thread, in post form.
posted by jack_mo at 8:17 AM on May 31, 2006


I know you qualified that as your subjective opinion, and I'm not trying to pick on you, jonson, but that seems kind of like saying "People speaking Chinese sound like they're just making up random gibberish syllables." When of course it just sounds that way to me because I don't speak Chinese.

The difference between spoken language and music is that with speech we can generally assume that it has some universal meaning, that the words can some how be translated (with varying degrees of accuracy). This isn't true with music. I am not a fan of Steve Vai and I may never like Steve Vai his music may always sound like empty wanking to me, and no translation will change this. Even if it was translated into a form I liked and understood, I would still not like the original.
So when jonson says it sounds like random noodling to him, it is random noodling to him. When it comes to emotions and aesthetics, relativity is everything. There is no ultimately good or bad art, just stuff you like and stuff you don't.
posted by doctor_negative at 9:09 AM on May 31, 2006


Interesting clip. Things like this just remind me why I don't understand jazz. That isn't to say that jazz is bad, but jazz is completely divorced from my aesthetic.
posted by Bugbread at 9:13 AM on May 31, 2006


It is the musical equivalent of someone talking a load of shit down the pub.
posted by catchmurray at 9:15 AM on May 31, 2006


The difference between spoken language and music is that with speech we can generally assume that it has some universal meaning, that the words can some how be translated (with varying degrees of accuracy). This isn't true with music.

Yes it is, just not as true as it is with language. Musical "sentences" aren't referents to things in the world the way spoken language is, but that doesn't mean that there isn't meaning and structure in music which can be understood or not. What appears meaningless may in fact be meaningful to someone who understands the language of the musician or the musical idiom.

So when jonson says it sounds like random noodling to him, it is random noodling to him.

I'm not disputing the fact that it sounds like random noodling to him. I'm saying that if he understood Holdsworth's musical language, it might not sound like random noodling; in fact I'm quite certain that there's nothing random about it.

When it comes to emotions and aesthetics, relativity is everything. There is no ultimately good or bad art, just stuff you like and stuff you don't.

I disagree, but that topic is too big for this thread.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:16 AM on May 31, 2006


one word: Yngwie Malmsteen
posted by Shike at 11:13 AM on May 31, 2006


There is no ultimately good or bad art, just stuff you like and stuff you don't.

Whenever people say that, I really wish I could run into the nearest telephone box and turn into Modernism Man! Dressed in an abstract cape and armed only with my collected essays of Greenberg, I would triumph!
posted by jack_mo at 11:49 AM on May 31, 2006


one word: Yngwie Malmsteen

That's next door, mate.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:53 AM on May 31, 2006


I'm saying that if he understood Holdsworth's musical language, it might not sound like random noodling; in fact I'm quite certain that there's nothing random about it.

And I'm saying to him it's random, and to you it's not, and both points of view are valid and correct. Think about it like food. I don't like the way most fish smells, no amount of explaining or logic is going to change that.
If you are a Bach purist, Beethoven is too showy and emotional. If you're a Beethoven fanatic, Bach is too simplistic and rigid. Both points of view are valid.
posted by doctor_negative at 12:28 PM on May 31, 2006


And I'm saying to him it's random, and to you it's not, and both points of view are valid and correct. Think about it like food. I don't like the way most fish smells, no amount of explaining or logic is going to change that.

That's not the same at all. And I disagree with your example; preferences for tastes and smells can be acquired. Explanation wouldn't make you like it immediately, but over time you might decide you liked it.

But anyway, the point is I'm not saying it's wrong for him not to like it. I don't particularly like it either. But I also realize that it wasn't created randomly. Regardless of how confusing or meaningless it might seem to me, I can recognize that there is in fact structure and meaning to be found in it.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:48 PM on May 31, 2006


at least he had the good sense to leave UK with one good album before the miserable pre-Asia album.
posted by 3.2.3 at 2:12 PM on May 31, 2006


Eh, but not meh. I dig good jazz, but not so much on guitar. If I'm feeling like that I prefer Greg Ginn's crazy but inspired solos and Joe Baiza of Saccharine Trust.
posted by snsranch at 7:32 PM on May 31, 2006


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