The Wonder Year
September 20, 2006 2:52 PM Subscribe
That's pretty cool; good for him.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:54 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:54 PM on September 20, 2006
I loved this quote from the last link:
"I guess my parents have always been supportive in the way they raised me," Banh said. "They would always make me feel like I wasn't working hard enough. Now doing this, they can't really say anything."
Uh, yeah...his parents were very "supportive". Glad to know that it only took completing a four year education in one year, with a double major in math and physics, to shut them up. But I bet his siblings are gonna have a hard time living in his shadow.
posted by mosk at 3:03 PM on September 20, 2006
"I guess my parents have always been supportive in the way they raised me," Banh said. "They would always make me feel like I wasn't working hard enough. Now doing this, they can't really say anything."
Uh, yeah...his parents were very "supportive". Glad to know that it only took completing a four year education in one year, with a double major in math and physics, to shut them up. But I bet his siblings are gonna have a hard time living in his shadow.
posted by mosk at 3:03 PM on September 20, 2006
Yeah, I was totally gonna do this, but then I was worried people would confuse me for a driven, hard-working child of immigrants rather than the lazy, contented American that I am. I slothed long & hard to earn my stereotype, and I'm not about to give it up without a struggle. A lazy, lazy struggle.
posted by jonson at 3:04 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by jonson at 3:04 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
And he double majored.
Damn, took me four years to make it through that place. Fun years, but still.
posted by gottabefunky at 3:05 PM on September 20, 2006
Damn, took me four years to make it through that place. Fun years, but still.
posted by gottabefunky at 3:05 PM on September 20, 2006
I was on course to do a four year degree in three years, then had to take a semester off for health reasons, so ended up doing it all in three and a half. I really wanted to hang around for the full four years since I really, really loved being in school, but the money just wasn't there. I hope this kid isn't missing out, but I suspect that he is.
posted by Clay201 at 3:07 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Clay201 at 3:07 PM on September 20, 2006
what is this country coming to? what ever happened to the good old days of pbr-box helmets and billiards and just going into debt like it was nobody's business...?
posted by punkbitch at 3:08 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by punkbitch at 3:08 PM on September 20, 2006
In his much quoted epic "The Aeneid," Virgil said, "Fortune favors the brave." Although there is no doubt Virgil meant for the line to define the heroic deeds of the Trojan exiles, the notion of "brave" could easily be applied to first-year College student David Banh, who is graduating from the University this year.
Why the unnecessary Virgil quote? Is it house style for the Cavalier Daily or something?
posted by Iridic at 3:10 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
Why the unnecessary Virgil quote? Is it house style for the Cavalier Daily or something?
posted by Iridic at 3:10 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
It took me over five years to not graduate. But I'll bet I had a better time!
Well, not really. *sob*
posted by brundlefly at 3:12 PM on September 20, 2006
Well, not really. *sob*
posted by brundlefly at 3:12 PM on September 20, 2006
Iridlc=I am no latin scholar but when Shakespeare, who wrote in a cute English, has Miranda (The Temspest) say O Brave new world...we learn via notes that Brave meant Rare...what it means in this translation of Virgil is, as you suggest, not needed.
Today the trend is for many student not to finish a 4 year program in 4 years, thus driving up interest on loans.
But having been statined for a time in Virginia, I can appreciate the rush to finish up, though he seems to want to stay on a few more months for his PHd.
posted by Postroad at 3:16 PM on September 20, 2006
Today the trend is for many student not to finish a 4 year program in 4 years, thus driving up interest on loans.
But having been statined for a time in Virginia, I can appreciate the rush to finish up, though he seems to want to stay on a few more months for his PHd.
posted by Postroad at 3:16 PM on September 20, 2006
So, this is essentially proof that a University degree is basically just Grade 13 of High School.
posted by madajb at 3:16 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by madajb at 3:16 PM on September 20, 2006
So, this is essentially proof that a University degree is basically just Grade 13 of High School.
I don't know what degree you got, but biochemistry was more like the 13th circle of Hell.
posted by TungstenChef at 3:27 PM on September 20, 2006
I don't know what degree you got, but biochemistry was more like the 13th circle of Hell.
posted by TungstenChef at 3:27 PM on September 20, 2006
Banh, who turns 19 later this month, graduated from Thomas Jefferson High School in Alexandria
Yeah. No surprise there. (TJ is the crown-jewel of magnet schools/undiagnosed Asperger's patients of the east coast).
Why the unnecessary Virgil quote? Is it house style for the Cavalier Daily or something?
Yes, from what I could tell when I was there.
It took me six years not to get my Ph.D. there, so I guess I've balanced out the karma on this one.
posted by bardic at 3:27 PM on September 20, 2006
Yeah. No surprise there. (TJ is the crown-jewel of magnet schools/undiagnosed Asperger's patients of the east coast).
Why the unnecessary Virgil quote? Is it house style for the Cavalier Daily or something?
Yes, from what I could tell when I was there.
It took me six years not to get my Ph.D. there, so I guess I've balanced out the karma on this one.
posted by bardic at 3:27 PM on September 20, 2006
Impressive, but college is easier when you don't have to work. Still, even without work, it's very cool he could handle all those classes at once.
posted by spaltavian at 3:28 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by spaltavian at 3:28 PM on September 20, 2006
And he double majored.
Well, he gamed the system a bit. Well, a lot.
As a non-US "college" grad, I don't get this whole credit system and AP tests, etc, but on Slashdot one commenter mentioned that this guy used less credits to get two degrees than he had to take to get one degree (engineering). Math and Physics are almost the same degree, especially in a generic undergrad setting.
Good for this guy and everything, but to me it's like having a filet mignon speed-eating contest. He missed the point.
posted by GuyZero at 3:31 PM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]
Well, he gamed the system a bit. Well, a lot.
As a non-US "college" grad, I don't get this whole credit system and AP tests, etc, but on Slashdot one commenter mentioned that this guy used less credits to get two degrees than he had to take to get one degree (engineering). Math and Physics are almost the same degree, especially in a generic undergrad setting.
Good for this guy and everything, but to me it's like having a filet mignon speed-eating contest. He missed the point.
posted by GuyZero at 3:31 PM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]
Also, small editorial nitpick -- he didn't work the system, he simply managed to pull off what it allowed him to do. As long as college prices continue to rise, this makes perfect sense to me. I knew Wahoos who finished in three years (not that hard to do), but that saved them and their family roughly 15 thousand dollars. I knew a girl whose dad paid her way for a two-month jaunt through Europe if she could pull it off, and dad still saved money.
Good for UVA (a public uni). I have a feeling that 40K/year institutions from Harvard on down would never allow this to happen. They'd be quick to decry any student "missing out" on all the lovely social rewards of campus life. Not so quick to point out how they'd hate to lose 120K.
posted by bardic at 3:33 PM on September 20, 2006
Good for UVA (a public uni). I have a feeling that 40K/year institutions from Harvard on down would never allow this to happen. They'd be quick to decry any student "missing out" on all the lovely social rewards of campus life. Not so quick to point out how they'd hate to lose 120K.
posted by bardic at 3:33 PM on September 20, 2006
70 credits in a year? That's nothin'.
When I were a lad, we used to do two 4-credit courses, have a damn good thrashing from 3 of our professors, solve fermats last theorem, and eat 7, yes 7 plates of mystery meat all before breakfast. And we'd put a few hours in down t'mines. And then do some real learnin'.
Kids today, they don't know how easy they've got it.
posted by lalochezia at 3:33 PM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]
When I were a lad, we used to do two 4-credit courses, have a damn good thrashing from 3 of our professors, solve fermats last theorem, and eat 7, yes 7 plates of mystery meat all before breakfast. And we'd put a few hours in down t'mines. And then do some real learnin'.
Kids today, they don't know how easy they've got it.
posted by lalochezia at 3:33 PM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]
Today's cute precocious overacheiver will no doubt go on to be today's premature ejaculating asshat.
posted by srboisvert at 3:34 PM on September 20, 2006 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 3:34 PM on September 20, 2006 [4 favorites]
That's three more years he gets to "enjoy" the real world, and three less spent enjoying campus life, not to mention the eight months he spent with books taped to his eyeballs.
I'm up to my ass in student loans I'll be paying off until I'm 40, but I couldn't put a price on the time I spent at university. But what do I know? I'm a lazy, spoiled loser.
posted by you just lost the game at 3:39 PM on September 20, 2006
I'm up to my ass in student loans I'll be paying off until I'm 40, but I couldn't put a price on the time I spent at university. But what do I know? I'm a lazy, spoiled loser.
posted by you just lost the game at 3:39 PM on September 20, 2006
I wonder how they let him take 11 classes in one semester. If the classes are like most, they are three credits...equating to 33 semester units.
My last year of college, I was gunning to finish...19 units is the max you can take. I had to get two professors, one counselor and a dean to sign off on me taking 22 units. They wouldn't let me take any more.
That kid must have been in class from 9am-7/8pm everyday. Sheesh, and I thought me having to take a Saturday afternoon class was bad.
posted by wilde at 3:39 PM on September 20, 2006
My last year of college, I was gunning to finish...19 units is the max you can take. I had to get two professors, one counselor and a dean to sign off on me taking 22 units. They wouldn't let me take any more.
That kid must have been in class from 9am-7/8pm everyday. Sheesh, and I thought me having to take a Saturday afternoon class was bad.
posted by wilde at 3:39 PM on September 20, 2006
With my luck, I would have got this dude as my calc TA.
posted by mrgrimm at 3:41 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by mrgrimm at 3:41 PM on September 20, 2006
I really loved college myself, but it's not for everyone. You posit that it's a choice between awesome fun party time and harsh, cruel world. I kind of agree, but then you admit that you or your parents are paying a hell of a lot for party time. As mentioned, finish early and then spend half-a-year in Bali "finding yourself."
You'd actually be saving money, especially if you're at a private college. Even the weaker ones run well over 20K/year now.
posted by bardic at 3:42 PM on September 20, 2006
You'd actually be saving money, especially if you're at a private college. Even the weaker ones run well over 20K/year now.
posted by bardic at 3:42 PM on September 20, 2006
Thank socialism for government funded education!
My 3 year degree only costs £3600 in tuition, total. It frees up thousands of pounds for debauchery!
posted by knapah at 3:43 PM on September 20, 2006
My 3 year degree only costs £3600 in tuition, total. It frees up thousands of pounds for debauchery!
posted by knapah at 3:43 PM on September 20, 2006
I would have finished my double major in three years, except I tried to finish it out with Calc II by correspondence (required for my second major) and I dropped the ball for, oh, two more years. So, I don't know if I'm an overacheiver or an underacheiver anymore.
For the most part, it probably just goes to show that I should have attended a more rigorous uni. I think this kid has good instincts, though, because he's staying on, in the undergrad dorms, as a grad student, therefore having the chance for a pretty normal college experience. I mean, we all have a lost semester or two in there somewhere, right? This frosh just used his more productively than drinking (Or, in my case, being clinically depressed. Ha!)
posted by Skwirl at 3:45 PM on September 20, 2006
For the most part, it probably just goes to show that I should have attended a more rigorous uni. I think this kid has good instincts, though, because he's staying on, in the undergrad dorms, as a grad student, therefore having the chance for a pretty normal college experience. I mean, we all have a lost semester or two in there somewhere, right? This frosh just used his more productively than drinking (Or, in my case, being clinically depressed. Ha!)
posted by Skwirl at 3:45 PM on September 20, 2006
He got half of his required credits from AP tests. That's just dumb policy on behalf of the university, to let one's AP scores count for up to two years' worth of college.
As for the guy, props to him for not only figuring this out but having the balls to pull it off.
posted by Ndwright at 3:51 PM on September 20, 2006
As for the guy, props to him for not only figuring this out but having the balls to pull it off.
posted by Ndwright at 3:51 PM on September 20, 2006
...and eat 7, yes 7 plates of mystery meat all before breakfast
Mystery meat? Luxury! We used to crave mystery meat as we were downin' our plate of razor blades washed down wi' sulfuric acid.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 3:53 PM on September 20, 2006
Mystery meat? Luxury! We used to crave mystery meat as we were downin' our plate of razor blades washed down wi' sulfuric acid.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 3:53 PM on September 20, 2006
The guy is gifted, I hardly doubt that. What I doubt is the rigor of the course of study ; clearly, difficulty isn't a merit on its own , but what about dumbed down simplicity ?
posted by elpapacito at 3:53 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 3:53 PM on September 20, 2006
I finished my BA 18 years after I started it. I win.
Erm...
posted by jokeefe at 4:00 PM on September 20, 2006
Erm...
posted by jokeefe at 4:00 PM on September 20, 2006
I was going to do something like this, too, but then it turned out I'm an idiot so I wasn't able to.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 4:02 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 4:02 PM on September 20, 2006
I don't really understand. When I went to university, courses had prerequisites. You couldn't take Psych 411 unless you had 101, 201, 301, etc. Isn't this the case in America or is that what they meant in the first article about getting permission to take more courses (I thought it meant qty, only, in the article).
Also, what are Advanced Placement courses? Never heard of those.
Lastly... why is it cheaper to do it one year? In Canada, tuition is per course. Is it per year in the USA?
posted by dobbs at 4:05 PM on September 20, 2006
Also, what are Advanced Placement courses? Never heard of those.
Lastly... why is it cheaper to do it one year? In Canada, tuition is per course. Is it per year in the USA?
posted by dobbs at 4:05 PM on September 20, 2006
He got half of his required credits from AP tests. That's just dumb policy on behalf of the university, to let one's AP scores count for up to two years' worth of college.
posted by Ndwright at 3:51 PM PST on September 20
Well, it's pretty ridiculous to expect a guy who already has Calc III (or more, god knows) under his belt to go through the intro courses again. And the AP English courses I took in high school were much harder than ENG101/102 in college, which I got to attend with the dumbest bunch of retards this side of the petting zoo.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:08 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Ndwright at 3:51 PM PST on September 20
Well, it's pretty ridiculous to expect a guy who already has Calc III (or more, god knows) under his belt to go through the intro courses again. And the AP English courses I took in high school were much harder than ENG101/102 in college, which I got to attend with the dumbest bunch of retards this side of the petting zoo.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:08 PM on September 20, 2006
Did anyone figure out who the mysterious "Ramirez" is in the first link?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:08 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:08 PM on September 20, 2006
In Canada, tuition is per course. Is it per year in the USA?
posted by dobbs at 4:05 PM PST on September 20
In most state schools tuition is capped once you reach a certain number of credit hours.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by dobbs at 4:05 PM PST on September 20
In most state schools tuition is capped once you reach a certain number of credit hours.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2006
Today's cute precocious overacheiver will no doubt go on to be today's premature ejaculating asshat.
That made me laugh so hard you get an AP credit in humor.
posted by Falconetti at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2006
That made me laugh so hard you get an AP credit in humor.
posted by Falconetti at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2006
Ah, never mind.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2006
Yeah, there's something fishy about prerequisites, here.
Even had I taken AP Physics, there is no getting through to your bachelor's in Physics in less than 3 years by my calculation (at my alma mater) at 3 quarters per standard year and summer when you can.
posted by chimaera at 4:14 PM on September 20, 2006
Even had I taken AP Physics, there is no getting through to your bachelor's in Physics in less than 3 years by my calculation (at my alma mater) at 3 quarters per standard year and summer when you can.
posted by chimaera at 4:14 PM on September 20, 2006
So what does he do for an encore? There is serious danger in peaking before you are twenty. It's all downhill, dude.
posted by fixedgear at 4:15 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by fixedgear at 4:15 PM on September 20, 2006
I'm a big loser because I don't have a degree and dropped out of college to work.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:17 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:17 PM on September 20, 2006
120 units? I graduated with over 200, and only 8 of them didn't apply to my major/minor, honors diploma.
Then they dropped 60 units from my major the FOLLOWING year, which basically made all that work mean crap on paper next to another kid with the same degree.
That pissed me off.
posted by linux at 4:18 PM on September 20, 2006
Then they dropped 60 units from my major the FOLLOWING year, which basically made all that work mean crap on paper next to another kid with the same degree.
That pissed me off.
posted by linux at 4:18 PM on September 20, 2006
At private colleges tuition is per year in America, usually with room and food calculated in automatically except for rare circumstances. The idea being no one would dare want to finish in under four years and miss out on the meta-academical edification.
I'm not up on the AP thing. They're scored from 1-5 (5 being best), and usually a 4 or 5 allows you to "pass" an intro level course. This guy had so much math going on though that I'd have to defer to my fellow nerds on that one. But I remember there being intro. level courses that you could not, under any circumstances, opt out of, even if you had a 5 in the requisite AP. Not sure how he got around that, but math strikes me as a much more objectively incremental course of study than, say, English lit.
posted by bardic at 4:29 PM on September 20, 2006
I'm not up on the AP thing. They're scored from 1-5 (5 being best), and usually a 4 or 5 allows you to "pass" an intro level course. This guy had so much math going on though that I'd have to defer to my fellow nerds on that one. But I remember there being intro. level courses that you could not, under any circumstances, opt out of, even if you had a 5 in the requisite AP. Not sure how he got around that, but math strikes me as a much more objectively incremental course of study than, say, English lit.
posted by bardic at 4:29 PM on September 20, 2006
Also, what are Advanced Placement courses?
In high school, Dobbs, American students have the option to take courses that will make them eligible to sit for a subject-specific proficiency exam (an A.P. test) in the spring. If they score well enough, the student will automatically receive a certain number of college credit hours (say, 3 to five hours) in that particular subject.
The classes are a great way to save money and time. If you have a subject you love--say, English--you can take the English A.P. class at your school, which will prepare for you for the corresponding A.P. test at the end of the year. If you score a 3 or better (out of 5), you'll automatically skip many of the lower-level English courses once you get to college, allowing you to get right to the good stuff. Conversely, if you never want to see a subject again once you leave high school, you can grit your teeth and plow through the appropriate A.P. course; a satisfactory score will usually let you skip the required quota of classes at university.
posted by Iridic at 4:32 PM on September 20, 2006
In high school, Dobbs, American students have the option to take courses that will make them eligible to sit for a subject-specific proficiency exam (an A.P. test) in the spring. If they score well enough, the student will automatically receive a certain number of college credit hours (say, 3 to five hours) in that particular subject.
The classes are a great way to save money and time. If you have a subject you love--say, English--you can take the English A.P. class at your school, which will prepare for you for the corresponding A.P. test at the end of the year. If you score a 3 or better (out of 5), you'll automatically skip many of the lower-level English courses once you get to college, allowing you to get right to the good stuff. Conversely, if you never want to see a subject again once you leave high school, you can grit your teeth and plow through the appropriate A.P. course; a satisfactory score will usually let you skip the required quota of classes at university.
posted by Iridic at 4:32 PM on September 20, 2006
Well, it's pretty ridiculous to expect a guy who already has Calc III (or more, god knows) under his belt to go through the intro courses again.
There is no AP exam for Calc III. At most the Calculus BC exam is notionally equivalent to Calc 1 & 2. More realistically, Calc AB is equivalent to nonmajor Calc 1 and BC is equivalent to for-math-and-science-majors Calc 1.
The dude really missed the point of going to college, ending up having studied math/physics and a pile of "Introduction to..." courses that were probably pitched well under the level of actual UVa courses, unless IQs have dropped sharply while I've been away. Bleah. I'm disappointed that the university let him do that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:33 PM on September 20, 2006
There is no AP exam for Calc III. At most the Calculus BC exam is notionally equivalent to Calc 1 & 2. More realistically, Calc AB is equivalent to nonmajor Calc 1 and BC is equivalent to for-math-and-science-majors Calc 1.
The dude really missed the point of going to college, ending up having studied math/physics and a pile of "Introduction to..." courses that were probably pitched well under the level of actual UVa courses, unless IQs have dropped sharply while I've been away. Bleah. I'm disappointed that the university let him do that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:33 PM on September 20, 2006
American students have the option to take courses that will make them eligible to sit for a subject-specific proficiency exam (an A.P. test) in the spring.
Strictly speaking, you don't have to take the course to take the test; this is up to your high school. I took the Spanish test without having had the AP Spanish class.
If they score well enough, the student will automatically receive a certain number of college credit hours (say, 3 to five hours) in that particular subject.
It ain't automatic. It's all entirely at the discretion of the college.
In my experience, they're better seen as better versions of high school courses and really good preparation for college courses than they are really equivalent to a college course.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:40 PM on September 20, 2006
Strictly speaking, you don't have to take the course to take the test; this is up to your high school. I took the Spanish test without having had the AP Spanish class.
If they score well enough, the student will automatically receive a certain number of college credit hours (say, 3 to five hours) in that particular subject.
It ain't automatic. It's all entirely at the discretion of the college.
In my experience, they're better seen as better versions of high school courses and really good preparation for college courses than they are really equivalent to a college course.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:40 PM on September 20, 2006
bardic mused "I just hope the poor bastard got laid a few times."
That would take too long. Chances are he scored well enough to qualify for a three-way.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 4:42 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
That would take too long. Chances are he scored well enough to qualify for a three-way.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 4:42 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
He's still at UVA working on his master's degree in Physics, then he plans to go to law school and become a patent attorney.
posted by armage at 4:42 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by armage at 4:42 PM on September 20, 2006
ROU_Xenophobe, I doubt that a kid who got 72 AP units + 63+ college units really missed that much, especially if Bs were his low grades. I'm pretty sure some of those AP units had to demonstrate breadth as well as depth. If not, clearly this guy still has the ability to learn on his own in life. Which to my mind is what college should be about.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:43 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:43 PM on September 20, 2006
Although I guess you could make an argument that he missed out culturally.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:45 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:45 PM on September 20, 2006
Good for this guy and everything, but to me it's like having a filet mignon speed-eating contest. He missed the point.
Amen.
posted by chrisamiller at 4:53 PM on September 20, 2006
Amen.
posted by chrisamiller at 4:53 PM on September 20, 2006
Although I guess you could make an argument that he missed out culturally.
He still lives in the undergrad dorms while doing masters work. I think he's having a good enough time socially. Some people can plow through courses, especially courses in the sciences like math and physics. I don't think it'd be as easy unless you have a very effective eidetic memory to do the same as a history or lit. major.
posted by linux at 5:01 PM on September 20, 2006
He still lives in the undergrad dorms while doing masters work. I think he's having a good enough time socially. Some people can plow through courses, especially courses in the sciences like math and physics. I don't think it'd be as easy unless you have a very effective eidetic memory to do the same as a history or lit. major.
posted by linux at 5:01 PM on September 20, 2006
Although I guess you could make an argument that he missed out culturally.
He's compressing that as well - he plans on averaging a .15 blood/alcohol level for the next 3 months.
posted by bonecrusher at 5:05 PM on September 20, 2006
My best friend from high school, and college roommate, did his double-major-with-honors math and physics degree in two years, with no such thing as AP credits. He also got laid a lot and played rugby every weekend. This was in New Zealand.
He also had a psychotic break at the end of it all.
posted by gaspode at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2006
He also had a psychotic break at the end of it all.
posted by gaspode at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2006
You're right, Xenophobe. I meant "automatic" in the sense that U. of I., for example, automatically gave me "pass" marks on several specific introductory English courses when they received my A.P. score. I know that there are American colleges that don't even acknowledge the test--and good luck if you're matriculating outside the U.S.!
But as to whether A.P. courses are truly "better versions of high school courses," I might have to disagree. With hindsight, I've come to dislike the basic aims of the A.P system. The Exam Board's suggested curriculum is designed mainly to teach a student to take a single test and pass it; long term retention is something of an afterthought. Depending on the teacher, the focus can be far more on the test than on the material. That's a damn pity, because A.P. courses usually supplant old fashioned, high-level honors courses, which have the more traditional and admirable aims of giving deep and comprehensive instruction and attention to receptive students.
posted by Iridic at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2006
But as to whether A.P. courses are truly "better versions of high school courses," I might have to disagree. With hindsight, I've come to dislike the basic aims of the A.P system. The Exam Board's suggested curriculum is designed mainly to teach a student to take a single test and pass it; long term retention is something of an afterthought. Depending on the teacher, the focus can be far more on the test than on the material. That's a damn pity, because A.P. courses usually supplant old fashioned, high-level honors courses, which have the more traditional and admirable aims of giving deep and comprehensive instruction and attention to receptive students.
posted by Iridic at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2006
I'm a physics major at UVA, and so, am in and was in a bunch of classes with this dude. A couple of clarifications: 1) There is a program here called Echols Scholars, which basically amounts to waiving the area requirements for the top tier of students, which this guy was in, so he didn't have to take any intro classes. 2) Prerequisites are almost universally at the professor's discretion, in the sense that, at least for the physics major, they want you to take a bunch of 100 and 200 level classes in math and physics before you try your hand at the harder and more interesting 300 and 500 level classes, but they aren't actually inside the major required classes. 3) Echols kids have a different dean than us commoners, and he's a bit more amenable to waiving the credit limits. A friend of mine is signed up for 6 high level physics classes and killing himself, and really only got the waivers because he's in the Echols program. I don't really think David's missing the point though, as he's going to stay at school here at least another year or two for his masters, and while doing that he's been just living the life of the second year.
posted by apathy0o0 at 5:12 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by apathy0o0 at 5:12 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
My hat's off to the guy -- it's a very impressive achievement -- but he might be stuck spending the rest of his life wondering what it would have been like to go out with lots of girls while he was in college. I don't think too many people in college realize how difficult it is to meet people you can get very close to in the "real world", as compared to in a college setting.
Still, people will make their own decisions and lead their own lives, and anyway being in college for a longer period is certainly no guarantee that one will fully take advantage of it.
posted by clevershark at 5:13 PM on September 20, 2006
Still, people will make their own decisions and lead their own lives, and anyway being in college for a longer period is certainly no guarantee that one will fully take advantage of it.
posted by clevershark at 5:13 PM on September 20, 2006
Impressive, at such a young age...although the story isn't quite what it was originally billed as -- since he entered college with 60 credits already -- in other words, 1/2 of his degree already done. That meant only another 60 credits in one year -- which is still quite remarkable. I completed 60 credits in one year (grad school), but I was much older than him when I did it. At the age of 19, I didn't have the attention span of a caffeinated magpie.
posted by davidmsc at 5:22 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by davidmsc at 5:22 PM on September 20, 2006
I have to wonder how many people in this thread are commenting "boy, I hope he doesn't miss out" from their perspective rather than his?
Because, man, wouldn't it just suck for the rest of you that did it the old-fashioned way if this guy pulls this off, pulls off the Master's, and then comes out going "yeah, that was the best time of my life. I got laid every weekend, and it was awesome", and turns out to have no regrets whatsoever?
I think all of us would like to believe that the way we did something is the way to do something. Few of us are very good at dealing with someone who comes along and does the same thing in half the time or less while having twice as much fun, etcetera.
posted by scrump at 5:32 PM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]
Because, man, wouldn't it just suck for the rest of you that did it the old-fashioned way if this guy pulls this off, pulls off the Master's, and then comes out going "yeah, that was the best time of my life. I got laid every weekend, and it was awesome", and turns out to have no regrets whatsoever?
I think all of us would like to believe that the way we did something is the way to do something. Few of us are very good at dealing with someone who comes along and does the same thing in half the time or less while having twice as much fun, etcetera.
posted by scrump at 5:32 PM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]
Ndwright: He got half of his required credits from AP tests. That's just dumb policy on behalf of the university, to let one's AP scores count for up to two years' worth of college.
Why? AP courses aren't fluff, they cover the same material and he got the needed scores on those test.
In fact, the AP courses I took were much more indepth and taxing than their counterparts at University.
posted by spaltavian at 5:36 PM on September 20, 2006
Why? AP courses aren't fluff, they cover the same material and he got the needed scores on those test.
In fact, the AP courses I took were much more indepth and taxing than their counterparts at University.
posted by spaltavian at 5:36 PM on September 20, 2006
I'll chime in on AP and agree with Iridic. Too much focus is on doing well on the test, but that could be said about American education in general.
None of the AP classes honestly compared to their college counterparts. Maybe I'm just pissed off my school didn't give credit for 3s (or even 4s in some subjects).
posted by mrgrimm at 5:47 PM on September 20, 2006
None of the AP classes honestly compared to their college counterparts. Maybe I'm just pissed off my school didn't give credit for 3s (or even 4s in some subjects).
posted by mrgrimm at 5:47 PM on September 20, 2006
Well, it's pretty ridiculous to expect a guy who already has Calc III (or more, god knows) under his belt to go through the intro courses again.
There are other ways to handle AP credit. My school (and others, I think) will let you test out of courses you've already seen the content for, from, eg, AP classes. That doesn't mean you get fewer credits to graduate, just that it opens up higher level courses to you earlier.
posted by heresiarch at 5:50 PM on September 20, 2006
There are other ways to handle AP credit. My school (and others, I think) will let you test out of courses you've already seen the content for, from, eg, AP classes. That doesn't mean you get fewer credits to graduate, just that it opens up higher level courses to you earlier.
posted by heresiarch at 5:50 PM on September 20, 2006
Modern universities are all about "accreditation" and not "learning". This got accredited in record time, good for him.
posted by Vindaloo at 5:52 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Vindaloo at 5:52 PM on September 20, 2006
Why the unnecessary Virgil quote?
Yeah, and they misspelled Vergil.
posted by oaf at 5:53 PM on September 20, 2006
Yeah, and they misspelled Vergil.
posted by oaf at 5:53 PM on September 20, 2006
Wait, so you're telling me that this child of 1st generation Vietnamese immigrants with 60 AP credits couldn't get some scholarship money? And he's in-state! There's no way the student loans were the reason that he decided to try to complete a degree in one year. He's clearly missing the point of college.
Oh yeah, he's going to stay on campus while doing graduate studies - I'm sure he's going to go to plenty of keggers in between research. I'd love to end up with a guy like that as a coworker. I'm sure his social skills are top notch!
UVA just wanted the publicity ... that's just irresponsible to let someone throw away their college experience like that.
posted by drewcox at 5:58 PM on September 20, 2006
Oh yeah, he's going to stay on campus while doing graduate studies - I'm sure he's going to go to plenty of keggers in between research. I'd love to end up with a guy like that as a coworker. I'm sure his social skills are top notch!
UVA just wanted the publicity ... that's just irresponsible to let someone throw away their college experience like that.
posted by drewcox at 5:58 PM on September 20, 2006
The inflation on higher ed over the past decade has outpaced just about all other goods and services. This is probably just the beginning--people will figure out all kinds of ways to buck the system to save money.
posted by whatnot at 6:03 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by whatnot at 6:03 PM on September 20, 2006
I don't know about how much he missed out on; some people spend 4 years just wading through classes and not being social. He may just have substituted more classes for video games.
If he's happy, good for him. If he's not, then he screwed up.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:07 PM on September 20, 2006
If he's happy, good for him. If he's not, then he screwed up.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:07 PM on September 20, 2006
I'm amazed his school would let him do that. I go to NYU (which would like all of your money, right now, please). Here, AP scores don't fulfill some departments' prerequisites, you can't have more than 32 credits come from AP scores, you can't take more than 18 credits/semester without petitioning and then paying extra on top of tuition, and I really doubt any dean would sign off on more than 20 or 21 credits per semester -- never 37!
I can't help feeling like this guy would've learned more if he'd gone to MIT for three or four years. But this way he's getting a lot more notice than he would otherwise, which I'm sure is what he'd like for future jobs.
posted by booksandlibretti at 6:21 PM on September 20, 2006
I can't help feeling like this guy would've learned more if he'd gone to MIT for three or four years. But this way he's getting a lot more notice than he would otherwise, which I'm sure is what he'd like for future jobs.
posted by booksandlibretti at 6:21 PM on September 20, 2006
The money issue I don't understand. I'm at a public university right now (in the US), and we pay by the credit. Rushing through in a year wouldn't save you andy money in that instance. Is there a different system in place at UVA?
posted by piratebowling at 6:25 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by piratebowling at 6:25 PM on September 20, 2006
He signed up for 23 credit hours his first semester at UVa, but found the workload wasn't as bad as he thought it might be.
"I found myself sitting around a lot with free time," he said.
It sounds to me like he's had plenty of opportunity to socialize, if that's what he wants to do. If he's taking 2 years for the master's degree (and no reason not to, with full funding), he'll have a lot more time to do the stuff y'all are stressing about him not doing.
As for myself, the only thing I'm jealous about is that he went to a high school that offered AP courses.
Also I thought that was a really awesome quote.
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:29 PM on September 20, 2006
"I found myself sitting around a lot with free time," he said.
It sounds to me like he's had plenty of opportunity to socialize, if that's what he wants to do. If he's taking 2 years for the master's degree (and no reason not to, with full funding), he'll have a lot more time to do the stuff y'all are stressing about him not doing.
As for myself, the only thing I'm jealous about is that he went to a high school that offered AP courses.
Also I thought that was a really awesome quote.
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:29 PM on September 20, 2006
You could only do this as an Echols scholar. When I was at UVA, because I was in the Echols program, they let me take graduate level classes my first semester as a freshman.
With no prereqs and no distribution requirements this is totally doable.
Plus, at least when I was there, Echols got priority for class registration, which meant a freshman Echols scholar could get into a class where a senior might not.
Not fair particularly, but a very attractive way to get top students to go to a public school.
posted by MythMaker at 6:32 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
With no prereqs and no distribution requirements this is totally doable.
Plus, at least when I was there, Echols got priority for class registration, which meant a freshman Echols scholar could get into a class where a senior might not.
Not fair particularly, but a very attractive way to get top students to go to a public school.
posted by MythMaker at 6:32 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
I was stunned that they let him take 2 classes that actually took place at the same time!!
doesn't UVA have some kind of attendance policies? What professor would let somebody pass his class who only showed up half the time or less?
posted by Megafly at 6:52 PM on September 20, 2006
doesn't UVA have some kind of attendance policies? What professor would let somebody pass his class who only showed up half the time or less?
posted by Megafly at 6:52 PM on September 20, 2006
All of the stuff about "missing out" is beside the point, I think. I mean, it's UVA. It's not like he's going to learn anything however many years he stays there. Might as well get his card punched in one.
(Sorry about this comment, but it took me three and a half years to not graduate from William and Mary, leaving me with nothing but loathing for everything in Virginia. Especially UVA. And William and Mary.)
posted by rusty at 7:01 PM on September 20, 2006
(Sorry about this comment, but it took me three and a half years to not graduate from William and Mary, leaving me with nothing but loathing for everything in Virginia. Especially UVA. And William and Mary.)
posted by rusty at 7:01 PM on September 20, 2006
Megafly: What professor would let somebody pass his class who only showed up half the time or less?
Are you kidding? I got A's and B's in a few classes that I went to between 1/3 and 1/2 the time- many professors have no attendance policies and most that do don't enforce them if you're doing well on tests and assignments.
My senior year I alternated working dayshift Tuesday and Thursdays and going to my classes on those days each week. I never went to more than 2/3 of classes that were before 11am.
posted by spaltavian at 7:03 PM on September 20, 2006
Are you kidding? I got A's and B's in a few classes that I went to between 1/3 and 1/2 the time- many professors have no attendance policies and most that do don't enforce them if you're doing well on tests and assignments.
My senior year I alternated working dayshift Tuesday and Thursdays and going to my classes on those days each week. I never went to more than 2/3 of classes that were before 11am.
posted by spaltavian at 7:03 PM on September 20, 2006
Addendum: To be fair, I did not go to any prestigious schools.
posted by spaltavian at 7:04 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by spaltavian at 7:04 PM on September 20, 2006
I finished my BA 18 years after I started it. I win.
I only took 16 years but a friend of mine who I graduated with took 27 years to graduate. He started in 1971, dropped out, had 3 or 4 careers, collected a couple of ex-wives and finally went back and finished from the same school with the same major in 1998. The real kicker was that when he moved back home to finish the degree, he ended up dating the same woman that he had dated when he was 19.
posted by octothorpe at 7:11 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
I only took 16 years but a friend of mine who I graduated with took 27 years to graduate. He started in 1971, dropped out, had 3 or 4 careers, collected a couple of ex-wives and finally went back and finished from the same school with the same major in 1998. The real kicker was that when he moved back home to finish the degree, he ended up dating the same woman that he had dated when he was 19.
posted by octothorpe at 7:11 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
There is no AP exam for Calc III. At most the Calculus BC exam is notionally equivalent to Calc 1 & 2. More realistically, Calc AB is equivalent to nonmajor Calc 1 and BC is equivalent to for-math-and-science-majors Calc 1.
As an alumni of Thomas Jefferson, I can tell you that they do have post-AP math classes for college credit. The class is taught at TJ, but students can choose to take a copy of the George Mason University midterm and final exam to get credit there for a modest fee.
I myself took multivariable calculus and linear algebra both for credit in my last year of high school. TJ also offers differential equations and complex variables, so it's possible that Banh already had 20 math credits going in to UVA.
posted by H-Bar at 7:47 PM on September 20, 2006
As an alumni of Thomas Jefferson, I can tell you that they do have post-AP math classes for college credit. The class is taught at TJ, but students can choose to take a copy of the George Mason University midterm and final exam to get credit there for a modest fee.
I myself took multivariable calculus and linear algebra both for credit in my last year of high school. TJ also offers differential equations and complex variables, so it's possible that Banh already had 20 math credits going in to UVA.
posted by H-Bar at 7:47 PM on September 20, 2006
Er, alumnus. Science is our strong suit, not English.
posted by H-Bar at 7:49 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by H-Bar at 7:49 PM on September 20, 2006
I'd be wary of hiring this guy. A big part of University education is that you spend 4 years thinking about your subjects and maturing as an individual and a professional.
Skipping 3/4s of the process and therefore cramming instead of learning belies mostly negative traits in my opinion.
posted by illovich at 8:12 PM on September 20, 2006
Skipping 3/4s of the process and therefore cramming instead of learning belies mostly negative traits in my opinion.
posted by illovich at 8:12 PM on September 20, 2006
Steve Pavlina (the polyphasic sleep guy) graduated with a double major (Math/CS) in three semesters, averaging 30-40 credits per semester. He's got a a great article up on is blog about how and why. Another one here. He had a little more trouble than Bahn getting the overrides he needed so he attended two colleges at once, transferring intro credits from the community college to his "4 year" college.
linux: are you on a quarter system? Quarter system schools typically require 180 credits, semester system schools require 120.
posted by zanni at 8:13 PM on September 20, 2006
linux: are you on a quarter system? Quarter system schools typically require 180 credits, semester system schools require 120.
posted by zanni at 8:13 PM on September 20, 2006
So, he'll get his PhD in 2 years, become a tenured prof in 4 years, retire and die before turning 30. He's kicking life's ass.
posted by mullacc at 8:16 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by mullacc at 8:16 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
I guess he'll have 40 years in his cubicle under florescent lights to think about his one year of college where he never talked to anyone.
posted by four panels at 9:08 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by four panels at 9:08 PM on September 20, 2006
Why? AP courses aren't fluff, they cover the same material and he got the needed scores on those test.
In fact, the AP courses I took were much more indepth and taxing than their counterparts at University.
I agree completely, I had AP courses that were harder than college classes. I'm not objecting to the practice of using AP scores to allow students to forego classes, I'm objecting to the fact that this system worked in such a way that half of his degree was acquired in high school.
Are all state schools like this? At my college (small liberal arts place) you could maybe get a semester's worth of credit for AP scores, and even then some departments won't let you skip their classes even if you got a five.
posted by Ndwright at 9:58 PM on September 20, 2006
In fact, the AP courses I took were much more indepth and taxing than their counterparts at University.
I agree completely, I had AP courses that were harder than college classes. I'm not objecting to the practice of using AP scores to allow students to forego classes, I'm objecting to the fact that this system worked in such a way that half of his degree was acquired in high school.
Are all state schools like this? At my college (small liberal arts place) you could maybe get a semester's worth of credit for AP scores, and even then some departments won't let you skip their classes even if you got a five.
posted by Ndwright at 9:58 PM on September 20, 2006
I would have had a double major except I only declared one and it would have only taken me 1 year except it took seven and I would have done it at UVA except I went to a third rate institution. Other than that I'm just like that kid.
posted by Carbolic at 10:10 PM on September 20, 2006
posted by Carbolic at 10:10 PM on September 20, 2006
but he might be stuck spending the rest of his life wondering what it would have been like to go out with lots of girls while he was in college.
Why do I think that, with this kid, these silly social concepts would never, ever occur to him? I mean, these are the people that strip clubs were invented for, god bless 'em.
posted by frogan at 11:00 PM on September 20, 2006
Why do I think that, with this kid, these silly social concepts would never, ever occur to him? I mean, these are the people that strip clubs were invented for, god bless 'em.
posted by frogan at 11:00 PM on September 20, 2006
When I gave up a scholarship after my freshman year, I started working out how to finish asap to avoid the extra tuition cost. I figured that I could get my degree in Chemistry in just under another 2 years.
So I petitioned to take an extra course load each semester, as well as taking another course each semester at a nearby community college (and transferring the credits in). In addition, I took overloads in the intervening summer sessions, while working part-time.
Result: a major in Chemistry and a minor in history in under 3 years. I got my Master's in another year and a half. Then I went on for the PhD and passed my quals within another semester.
About that time, I realized that I'd been glorifying the idea of "get it done as fast as possible" at the expense of the richness of a quality experience.
I seriously wish I hadn't tried to go so fast, and instead enjoyed my education more. Taken some more electives to round out my experience, got involved in more extracurricular activities and spent time getting more seasoning and depth in my major.
So now, 15 years later, I'm going back for my MPA and planning on taking it at a more reasonable pace. I hope to enjoy the experience and cultivate the quality side of things this time.
Sometimes, you really DO get a second chance to exercise the wisdom that comes with age.
posted by darkstar at 12:05 AM on September 21, 2006
So I petitioned to take an extra course load each semester, as well as taking another course each semester at a nearby community college (and transferring the credits in). In addition, I took overloads in the intervening summer sessions, while working part-time.
Result: a major in Chemistry and a minor in history in under 3 years. I got my Master's in another year and a half. Then I went on for the PhD and passed my quals within another semester.
About that time, I realized that I'd been glorifying the idea of "get it done as fast as possible" at the expense of the richness of a quality experience.
I seriously wish I hadn't tried to go so fast, and instead enjoyed my education more. Taken some more electives to round out my experience, got involved in more extracurricular activities and spent time getting more seasoning and depth in my major.
So now, 15 years later, I'm going back for my MPA and planning on taking it at a more reasonable pace. I hope to enjoy the experience and cultivate the quality side of things this time.
Sometimes, you really DO get a second chance to exercise the wisdom that comes with age.
posted by darkstar at 12:05 AM on September 21, 2006
In Canada, tuition is per course. Is it per year in the USA?
Canadian universities cap tuition at some point, usually. My own university lets students take their 6th and 7th courses (per semester) for free if their GPAs are high enough.
posted by thisjax at 1:09 AM on September 21, 2006
Canadian universities cap tuition at some point, usually. My own university lets students take their 6th and 7th courses (per semester) for free if their GPAs are high enough.
posted by thisjax at 1:09 AM on September 21, 2006
He signed up for 23 credit hours his first semester at UVa, but found the workload wasn't as bad as he thought it might be.
"I found myself sitting around a lot with free time," he said.
...
posted by sophist at 1:47 AM on September 21, 2006
"I found myself sitting around a lot with free time," he said.
...
posted by sophist at 1:47 AM on September 21, 2006
I wonder what sort of porn filter his parents installed on his computer.
posted by srboisvert at 2:07 AM on September 21, 2006
posted by srboisvert at 2:07 AM on September 21, 2006
I seriously wish I hadn't tried to go so fast, and instead enjoyed my education more. Taken some more electives to round out my experience, got involved in more extracurricular activities and spent time getting more seasoning and depth in my major.
Darkstar, my husband would agree with you. He graduated in four years from MIT with his Bachelors and Masters degrees. In addition, he entered MIT at aged 16. With my oldest child currently thinking about colleges (and equally able in Math), he has been cautioning her to take it more slowly for exactly the reasons that you state.
I think that this kid must be profoundly gifted, otherwise he would not have been able to pull this off. What it gets down to is that our school systems don't know how to handle the non-academic side of development for gifted kids.
posted by Flakypastry at 4:55 AM on September 21, 2006
Darkstar, my husband would agree with you. He graduated in four years from MIT with his Bachelors and Masters degrees. In addition, he entered MIT at aged 16. With my oldest child currently thinking about colleges (and equally able in Math), he has been cautioning her to take it more slowly for exactly the reasons that you state.
I think that this kid must be profoundly gifted, otherwise he would not have been able to pull this off. What it gets down to is that our school systems don't know how to handle the non-academic side of development for gifted kids.
posted by Flakypastry at 4:55 AM on September 21, 2006
Wow, so this guy is basicaly missing the entire point of what it means to be educated. Apparently you can do it in a vacuum by taking X number of credits per semester in your chosen (at 17!) double major without any time to figure out a) whether you might actually be better at or get more satisfaction from archaeology or linguistics, b) what the hell the rest of the kids are up to. You know, that philosophy major down the hall might have something to contribute to your intellectual growth, if you'd go talk to her.
Perhaps this guy is a superhero, requiring no sleep and able to take 30 credits a semester while still maintaining an active social life, but even so, he's only gonna manage it for a year, at which point he'll be cast out into the world, my guess is no less under his parents' thumb, having completed some graduation requirements and pretty much, I'm guessing, grown zero as a person. A diploma is so not an education.
There's no room for wonder in this guy's education. There's no room for growth. He is missing the entire point.
posted by catesbie at 5:04 AM on September 21, 2006
Perhaps this guy is a superhero, requiring no sleep and able to take 30 credits a semester while still maintaining an active social life, but even so, he's only gonna manage it for a year, at which point he'll be cast out into the world, my guess is no less under his parents' thumb, having completed some graduation requirements and pretty much, I'm guessing, grown zero as a person. A diploma is so not an education.
There's no room for wonder in this guy's education. There's no room for growth. He is missing the entire point.
posted by catesbie at 5:04 AM on September 21, 2006
Good for him. Hats off to you, dude. No need to justify or apologize for being brilliant.
I'd like to see more attention and money being used for gifted students. I'm all for helping the students who are struggling to get through, but it seems to be in bad taste these days to want to throw some extra resources into helping gifted kids. We'll come to regret that.
...flame away.
posted by bim at 5:26 AM on September 21, 2006
I'd like to see more attention and money being used for gifted students. I'm all for helping the students who are struggling to get through, but it seems to be in bad taste these days to want to throw some extra resources into helping gifted kids. We'll come to regret that.
...flame away.
posted by bim at 5:26 AM on September 21, 2006
I think you guys are futzing over prerequisites for nothing. You figure this kid did a double major math and physics, so the type of knowledge he learned and processed is more well suited for completing a degree early than English or other liberal arts that require a different kind of thinking.
Also, TJ (his HS) has a storied and well-known program throughout VA. I'm sure that based on having gotten through that pressure cooker of a school the administration of UVA gave him a lot of leeway.
posted by frecklefaerie at 5:30 AM on September 21, 2006
Also, TJ (his HS) has a storied and well-known program throughout VA. I'm sure that based on having gotten through that pressure cooker of a school the administration of UVA gave him a lot of leeway.
posted by frecklefaerie at 5:30 AM on September 21, 2006
Impressive, but college is easier when you don't have to work.
Well, keep in mind that he finished quickly so that he would only have to pay 1 year's worth of tuition so that he wouldn't have to work.
Seriously, though, the guy and his family must have been facing some pretty tough times if he was worried about the loans he'd have to take out toget through a public university in his own state. He seems to have pulled it off, and he'll have plenty of time to take a couple of years off and bum around.
posted by deanc at 6:28 AM on September 21, 2006
Well, keep in mind that he finished quickly so that he would only have to pay 1 year's worth of tuition so that he wouldn't have to work.
Seriously, though, the guy and his family must have been facing some pretty tough times if he was worried about the loans he'd have to take out toget through a public university in his own state. He seems to have pulled it off, and he'll have plenty of time to take a couple of years off and bum around.
posted by deanc at 6:28 AM on September 21, 2006
armage: Thanks for the the Washington Post link. I neglected to include it.
David Banh admits that he's no genius but he's certainly motivated. mosk pointed out the rather cryptic quote where he says
I guess my parents have always been supportive in the way they raised me," Banh said. "They would always make me feel like I wasn't working hard enough. Now doing this, they can't really say anything.
It worries me that perhaps this kind of external motivation (being pushed by his parents) could lead to regret later, but it sounds like he's making all kinds of other moves to have a "college life", whether it's an experience like the majority of other college grads or not. And let's be honest: he was also motivated by the fact that his scholarship was running out and he didn't want to spend another solid $30K+ finishing up his degree.
It's true that this feat would not have been possible without all the AP credits (though the crazy part is that he actually ended up not using a lot of those 72 credits as UVa requires 60 of them come from the university) or if he had not been an Echols Scholar, but that's the main thing I'd like to give Banh credit for: figuring out all of UVa's loopholes. This is an excercise in both common sense and book smarts that you just don't see all that often.
posted by blatant gizmo at 7:31 AM on September 21, 2006
David Banh admits that he's no genius but he's certainly motivated. mosk pointed out the rather cryptic quote where he says
I guess my parents have always been supportive in the way they raised me," Banh said. "They would always make me feel like I wasn't working hard enough. Now doing this, they can't really say anything.
It worries me that perhaps this kind of external motivation (being pushed by his parents) could lead to regret later, but it sounds like he's making all kinds of other moves to have a "college life", whether it's an experience like the majority of other college grads or not. And let's be honest: he was also motivated by the fact that his scholarship was running out and he didn't want to spend another solid $30K+ finishing up his degree.
It's true that this feat would not have been possible without all the AP credits (though the crazy part is that he actually ended up not using a lot of those 72 credits as UVa requires 60 of them come from the university) or if he had not been an Echols Scholar, but that's the main thing I'd like to give Banh credit for: figuring out all of UVa's loopholes. This is an excercise in both common sense and book smarts that you just don't see all that often.
posted by blatant gizmo at 7:31 AM on September 21, 2006
How is it that someone can even get 72 AP credits? When I was in high school (1990-1994), I don't think there were near that many AP tests. To me, that's a little ridiculous.
I went into college with a total of 18 hours in AP credits and college credit, and it STILL took me 5 years. Of course I only twice took summer classes, got a double major and double minor, and I didn't want to leave.
posted by papakwanz at 9:13 AM on September 21, 2006
I went into college with a total of 18 hours in AP credits and college credit, and it STILL took me 5 years. Of course I only twice took summer classes, got a double major and double minor, and I didn't want to leave.
posted by papakwanz at 9:13 AM on September 21, 2006
This is an excercise in both common sense and book smarts that you just don't see all that often.
Except in RPGs & MMORPGs. Where you see it happen every five minutes as the minmaxers know exactly how many hits it takes to kill a dragon (or whatever). It's a cynical way to approach a game and it's an even more cynical way to approach life.
Seriously, would you want this to work for you? A guy whose claim to fame is gaming the system?
posted by GuyZero at 10:31 AM on September 21, 2006
Except in RPGs & MMORPGs. Where you see it happen every five minutes as the minmaxers know exactly how many hits it takes to kill a dragon (or whatever). It's a cynical way to approach a game and it's an even more cynical way to approach life.
Seriously, would you want this to work for you? A guy whose claim to fame is gaming the system?
posted by GuyZero at 10:31 AM on September 21, 2006
catesbie: He is missing the entire point.
The 'point' of college is to get a piece of paper. All the important things you mention- education, socialization, exploration- is better done on your on time on your own terms.
posted by spaltavian at 10:40 AM on September 21, 2006
The 'point' of college is to get a piece of paper. All the important things you mention- education, socialization, exploration- is better done on your on time on your own terms.
posted by spaltavian at 10:40 AM on September 21, 2006
What Bim said.
I don't think math and physics talents need worry about such sillyness as "social development". The mortals are expected to dance to their pace, not the opposite. And so it must be, if we're to get any further in the True and Holy Quest that is physics.
posted by Goofyy at 10:53 AM on September 21, 2006
I don't think math and physics talents need worry about such sillyness as "social development". The mortals are expected to dance to their pace, not the opposite. And so it must be, if we're to get any further in the True and Holy Quest that is physics.
posted by Goofyy at 10:53 AM on September 21, 2006
I think I'm in my ninth year (going on ten?) of degree-searching. All I can think of is these lines from the great Meat Puppets:
"Looking through a pile of garbage
For some worthless piece of paper
That’s been hidden there for me
To give meaning to my day"
posted by Eideteker at 11:30 AM on September 21, 2006
"Looking through a pile of garbage
For some worthless piece of paper
That’s been hidden there for me
To give meaning to my day"
posted by Eideteker at 11:30 AM on September 21, 2006
The 72 credit thing: There are 34 AP tests, a few of which can be taken two at a time for one years study in high school, especially TJ. Also, some colleges, including UVA, count some AP math classes and AP sciences as four credits. It is safe to assume he took Calculus BC, earned the 5, and got 8 credits right there. Two of those physics tests also give 8 credits. That's 24, a third of the way there, and all from two classes.
I hung out with a lot of people who prided themselves on their AP credits. I know kids who went to college with as many as 40. 72 is excessive, but someone with the right brains and drive could do it.
posted by frecklefaerie at 11:44 AM on September 21, 2006
I hung out with a lot of people who prided themselves on their AP credits. I know kids who went to college with as many as 40. 72 is excessive, but someone with the right brains and drive could do it.
posted by frecklefaerie at 11:44 AM on September 21, 2006
GuyZero: Good point. As with real-life dealings with minmaxers I agree that this type of person is not someone I would want to have working under me nor would I want to have any associations with purely self-serving folks in my everyday life.
I'm not sure Banh is cut from that kind of cloth, exactly. Sure, he gamed UVa, but do you really think that was motivated by deceptive ruthlessness or just the desire for the fastes way to go from Point A to B? He was a math major, after all. That is, if he had the whole-hearted cut-throated nature and cynicism of the true minmaxer, I doubt he would be so open about it. In fact, it seems more the tale of a kid who just found himself wanting to do as much as he possibly could; who was kind of bored with the typical course load. At least that's what I gather from this:
His first semester, he took 23 credits and found he had more time than he did in high school to spend with friends, playing games (video games or board games, he clarified, not drinking games). Or just hanging out.
"I don't feel like I missed out," he said. "Most of college was euphoria."
posted by blatant gizmo at 1:17 PM on September 21, 2006
I'm not sure Banh is cut from that kind of cloth, exactly. Sure, he gamed UVa, but do you really think that was motivated by deceptive ruthlessness or just the desire for the fastes way to go from Point A to B? He was a math major, after all. That is, if he had the whole-hearted cut-throated nature and cynicism of the true minmaxer, I doubt he would be so open about it. In fact, it seems more the tale of a kid who just found himself wanting to do as much as he possibly could; who was kind of bored with the typical course load. At least that's what I gather from this:
His first semester, he took 23 credits and found he had more time than he did in high school to spend with friends, playing games (video games or board games, he clarified, not drinking games). Or just hanging out.
"I don't feel like I missed out," he said. "Most of college was euphoria."
posted by blatant gizmo at 1:17 PM on September 21, 2006
Seriously, would you want this to work for you? A guy whose claim to fame is gaming the system?
Yes.
Or to put it another way, I've worked for plenty of people who will earnestly tell you how much they grew in college, how it broadened their world-view beyond mere academics.
They were total assholes.
(FWIW, I grew in college and it broadened my world-view beyond mere academics.)
posted by bardic at 1:55 PM on September 21, 2006
Yes.
Or to put it another way, I've worked for plenty of people who will earnestly tell you how much they grew in college, how it broadened their world-view beyond mere academics.
They were total assholes.
(FWIW, I grew in college and it broadened my world-view beyond mere academics.)
posted by bardic at 1:55 PM on September 21, 2006
bardic, heh.
I'm sure he's a nice guy. He'll probably go far. It was probably hard work to pull all those courses off. I'm probably just bitter and jealous.
Alternately, I wonder why he didn't set his sights higher: with some debt and another year he could have gotten a degree in a better field from a better institution. Perhaps I'm bitter because people will think his degree is worth as much as mine when I had to work much harder and perhaps I'm depressed because maybe, in truth, his degree really is worth the same as mine.
posted by GuyZero at 2:16 PM on September 21, 2006
I'm sure he's a nice guy. He'll probably go far. It was probably hard work to pull all those courses off. I'm probably just bitter and jealous.
Alternately, I wonder why he didn't set his sights higher: with some debt and another year he could have gotten a degree in a better field from a better institution. Perhaps I'm bitter because people will think his degree is worth as much as mine when I had to work much harder and perhaps I'm depressed because maybe, in truth, his degree really is worth the same as mine.
posted by GuyZero at 2:16 PM on September 21, 2006
Some would argue that a college degree is, somewhat counterintuitively, worth less than ever before. While I don't have experience with it myself (English major!), it seems like hiring within the tech and IT industry has a lot more to do with your actual skill set than the branding at the top of your diploma (making internships and RL job experience more valuable than degrees).
Which seems healthy to me. Getting into an elite institution is something a kid should be proud of, but frankly it has a lot to do with who her parents are and how much they make.
YMMV. But again, I applaud this kid. It sounds like he set a goal for himself and accomplished it. How could anyone want to slag on him for that? Again, my four years were a great time, but they aren't for everyone.
posted by bardic at 2:26 PM on September 21, 2006
Which seems healthy to me. Getting into an elite institution is something a kid should be proud of, but frankly it has a lot to do with who her parents are and how much they make.
YMMV. But again, I applaud this kid. It sounds like he set a goal for himself and accomplished it. How could anyone want to slag on him for that? Again, my four years were a great time, but they aren't for everyone.
posted by bardic at 2:26 PM on September 21, 2006
. . . perhaps I'm depressed because maybe, in truth, his degree really is worth the same as mine.
Maybe, but when's the last time an employer asked an employee candidate whether they took the regular amount of time to graduate or a freakishly short track? Meaning's such a relative thing.
posted by blatant gizmo at 2:29 PM on September 21, 2006
Maybe, but when's the last time an employer asked an employee candidate whether they took the regular amount of time to graduate or a freakishly short track? Meaning's such a relative thing.
posted by blatant gizmo at 2:29 PM on September 21, 2006
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posted by eddydamascene at 2:54 PM on September 20, 2006