Fixed Gear Gallery
October 7, 2006 3:53 PM   Subscribe

[Beijing work bikes, Chinese skills, archives, et

posted by hama7 at 3:53 PM on October 7, 2006

good stuff
posted by specialk420 at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2006

I prefer here are mine
posted by atom128 at 4:02 PM on October 7, 2006

And such bikes are illegal in Milwaukee

via mobjectivist
posted by rough ashlar at 4:11 PM on October 7, 2006

how i feel looking at these must be what it feels like for the general populace to go to a department store and see a bunch of things they want to have. it's always fun to see fixies so much more beautiful than mine, and then think of my ugly and scratched old noble beast. someday i'll get that bike i want.
posted by localhuman at 4:27 PM on October 7, 2006

Metafilter and FGG come together. I don't know if two addictions should ever come together like this.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 4:33 PM on October 7, 2006

Regarding rough ashlar's link, I've heard people around here complain every now and again, but for most riders it seems to be a non-issue. The cops are usually busy enough that they won't hassle you over something so minor unless they are looking for a reason to bust you.

Which brings me to my question. Why not just affix a handbrake? I mean, I don't doubt that someone who knows what they're doing on a fixed gear can stop just fine without one, but if it keeps the cops off your back, why not just put one on the bike? It's not like you have to use it.

Is it some sort of bike aesthetic? Kind of a minimalist statement or something?
posted by quin at 4:36 PM on October 7, 2006

Is it some sort of bike aesthetic? Kind of a minimalist statement or something?
posted by quin at 4:36 PM PST

From what the fixed gear ppl tell me it is all about saving weight/making a bike that (kids) bike thiefs won't want to steal.

I swing the other way WRT bikes.

2kW of electric hub action
posted by rough ashlar at 4:46 PM on October 7, 2006

The photos from InterBike are awesome. It looks like a whole slew of companies are doing cheap simple fixies (even schwinn). I'm gonna have to finally get one.
posted by mathowie at 4:57 PM on October 7, 2006

These fixed gear fanatics remind me of the Trekkies who learn to speak Klingon.
posted by Flashman at 5:15 PM on October 7, 2006

But, this is a really cool website
posted by Flashman at 5:25 PM on October 7, 2006

San Francisco Bay Guardian: Firing off at fixed-gears.
posted by Boydrop at 5:33 PM on October 7, 2006

*drools some more
*drools even more
*searches for sponge to clean up all this drool
posted by caddis at 5:45 PM on October 7, 2006

Ha! Even the fixies have a thing for the tadpoles.
posted by bonehead at 5:57 PM on October 7, 2006

I do like the Calfee bamboo/cf fixie too.
posted by bonehead at 6:01 PM on October 7, 2006

That guardian writer couldn't sound any older if they tried...
posted by hototogisu at 6:09 PM on October 7, 2006

The funniest thing about that San Francisco Bay Guardian article is the ridiculous posturing of the commenters.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:38 PM on October 7, 2006

Would have been better if it was Fixed Bear Gallery, the way I first read it.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 7:47 PM on October 7, 2006

I'd love to be able to use my legs to control the speed of my descent going down steep hills -- it offends my sense of conservation of energy to use the brakes for this purpose. Otherwise I don't see the appeal. I like gears.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:58 PM on October 7, 2006

Good christ, the comments in that Guardian article are hilarious. I'm quite glad I never moved out to SF; if I had to deal with whinging, posturing dipshits like that, I'd never have gotten into biking.

Come out to Boston, where we need to study at MIT in order to invent entirely new polymers to keep us from freezing to death when we ride in the winter.
posted by xthlc at 8:41 PM on October 7, 2006

Thank you thank you thank you thank you.

From what the fixed gear ppl tell me it is all about saving weight/making a bike that (kids) bike thiefs won't want to steal.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:46 PM PST on October 7

I think it's more of a macho/macha thing, really.

My fixie proudly carries a brake for the following reasons:

1) The bike is geared high enough that backpedaling hard enough to slow it even half as well as my Jurassic-era caliper can is a pain in the neck, not to mention rough on my almost-40-year-old knees.

2) My fat ass needs all the help it can get stopping. Plus if I have to stop FAST the brake and backpedaling together do it faster than either by themselves.

3) I don't want to be totally* fucked if my chain breaks.

4) Nobody's ever going to mistake me for a real messenger or trackie (see fat ass comment, above), so why be a slave to fashion? Plus leaving Lycra cowboys in the dust of the fredliest ride on the street is hella fun.

No, I don't use the brake all the time, but it's nice to know it's there.

Even with the brake, I almost never lock mine because, first, it looks like the assembly of plumber's tubing it essentially is and I think the local kids would much rather have a shiny Xmart full-suspension MTB than a 25-year-old rusty green Schwinn/Panasonic with a Finding Nemo bell and a Pepsi bottle cap left bar end. Not terribly less significantly, most anybody who tries to ride away with it will probably end breaking their neck within half a block or so.

*Yes, there are other ways to slow down the bike, using a shoe against the tread is probably the least dangerous and dodgy. Honestly, I'd rather have a backup before I have to try that and risk losing a toe.
posted by Opposite George at 9:56 PM on October 7, 2006

er, end up breaking their neck (though I suppose it could be an end if they do it badly enough!)
posted by Opposite George at 10:00 PM on October 7, 2006

The best thing about fixies is passing them after shifting.

Hey, where's fixedgear?
posted by loquacious at 10:39 PM on October 7, 2006

loquatious: Yeah! Where's fixedgear!?

When I'm riding fixed around the city, I kick the crap out of the guys on their geared bikes. In the country, geared is way better.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 11:20 PM on October 7, 2006

I blow past fixies all the time in the flatlands of Philadelphia's center city district. Without mechanical advantage they really can't keep up. Still, I admit their bikes look cool as shit.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:53 PM on October 7, 2006

When I'm riding fixed around the city, I kick the crap out of the guys on their geared bikes. In the country, geared is way better.

See, I just haven't seen any fixies yet that can beat my mountain bike/cross country urban riding style for speed or efficiency. And I used to go chase messers pretty regularly in downtown LA for fun just to see if I could, 'cause for a while I wanted to mess a bit, so I know a bit about urban flatland/hill riding.

Really, I don't mind carrying a few extra pounds for brakes and rings/'railers. I'm already carrying a few extra pounds in my rather wide and thick gel seat, my cargo rack, my extra-wide straight bars and old-school steel bar ends, my shock forks, my thorn-proof slimed tubes and semi-slicks and more.

And above and beyond all that, let's just not talk about the extra weight in my fat ass.

I've ridden nice, decent fixed gears a few times, and more than a few hours at a time. They're all right. They aren't has hard to get used to as I thought, but I've been cycling all my life. They are indeed light weight. I can see how they'd be an advantage in tight, aggressive races on velodrome tracks where you don't have a whole lot of time to be mucking around with gears, brakes, your cadence and whatever else.

A fixed gear rider might possibly beat the pants off of me in another urban environment, say, NYC or something, but if that were the case I'd imagine they might do even better with some nice gears and good cadence and gear discipline. And granted, Los Angeles isn't exactly a known hotspot for bike messengers - but they do exist there and they're pretty damn hardcore. I've had easier attack chases and sprint chases on triatheletes out on training runs. (Yeah, they don't like being drafted/passed by someone on fat/knobby tires very much, either.)

I know a few things for certain: When I drop into the ultra low gears on my 24 speed mountain bike, I'm sure climbing that hill a whole lot faster and easier, my knees will last longer and cruising long downgrades is certainly much more enjoyable.
posted by loquacious at 12:44 AM on October 8, 2006

Can someone explain what the appeal* of a fixed-gear bike is? I find myself utterly baffled. I realize that the fixed-gear bik I'm remembering from my childhood is probably as primative as a protozoan compared to some of the bikes linked to in that gallery, but I'm obviously missing the point because it seems like a tremendous hassle to me.

*I get the appeal of the bamboo bike. Horns for handlebars? Hot damn!
posted by lekvar at 12:52 AM on October 8, 2006

I can see how fixed gears would have a niche, but their absolute, nigh religious popularity reeks of trendsterism and I f-ing can't stand people who value trendiness to the neglect of function. That being said, the last thing that bike culture needs is infighting and cliqueism.

Here's what I understand are the functional advantages:
  • Fewer parts to break. For a bike messenger, a day with your bike in the shop is a day without food on the table.
  • Good for short sprinting.
  • You can do a track stand (i.e. balance yourself at a complete stop.)
There are other less convincing claims like, "you feel more connected to your bike," "less coasting = more exercise," "you can feel the road traction better." For some reason, Fixies always compare their bikes to geared bikes, when it seems like the more obvious comparison would be a single speed bike with a freewheel, no? Freewheel singlespeeds have most of the advantages of a fixed gear and you can freaking coast if, and only if, you want to. Really, the only useful thing you're missing are the track stands. As a bicycle commuter who has to get to work, go to the pub, buy groceries, go to job interviews and whatnot, I'd trade the utility of coasting for the utility of track stands in a second. Okay, sure, a freewheeled bike has to have at least one, hopefully two, handbrakes and/or a coaster brake, but if you're counting ounces for anything but racing... Well, I just don't understand where you're coming from. Freewheels, coaster brakes and brake levers are low maintenence. Derailluers and brake pads need to be tuned pretty regularly.

Lekvar, I suspect that a single speed, coaster brake bike is the type of bike that you had as a kid, unless you're talking about a Big Wheel Trike. Heh. Coaster brakes stop when you pedal backwards. Fixed gears go backwards when you pedal backwards.

I'm kinda surprised nobody complained about a single link post yet.

I suspect that fixed gears have the same appeal as the Dvorak keyboard. You hear good things, so you decide to try it out for yourself, but by the time you've invested a dozen or more hours into unlearning your old habits, you either have to swallow the evangelical pill or admit to the cognitive dissonance of having wasted all that time for minor or nonexistent gains.
posted by Skwirl at 2:18 AM on October 8, 2006

Fewer parts to break. For a bike messenger, a day with your bike in the shop is a day without food on the table beer, coffee and mota.

I don't think I've ever seen a messer actually eat anything that could be considered "food" by most of the population. They seem to solely survive on beer, coffee, weed, tobacco and tap water. Occasionally I've seen some of the younger, fresher looking ones slurp some kind of protein/sugar goo out of shiny foil pouches, but they're probably noobs and haven't evolved to dining on bus exhaust and road strawberries.
posted by loquacious at 2:51 AM on October 8, 2006

This is awesome. I'm gonna go yank the gearbox and clutch out of my car and just weld up the driveshaft nice and solid. Permanent fifth gear - no more friction losses! And no more brake or clutch pads to wear out. Woot!
posted by kcds at 7:12 AM on October 8, 2006

Put me in the "don't get it" camp. Well, OK, maybe I do "get it" because there are some things I am a bit purist about. But it's not for me.

Although after years of owning mountain bikes, but only ever riding on streets, I did get nostalgic for a street bike. We called them "English Racers" or "10-speeds" when I was growing up. So I bought one and it's been fun.

But a fixie? No brakes? No coasting? No thanks!

Now, if I only was still small enough to ride a Schwinn Stingray...
posted by The Deej at 8:53 AM on October 8, 2006

Can someone explain what the appeal* of a fixed-gear bike is?

- Simple is cool.

- You learn to spin perfect circles - that is the real advantage in my book, but then I am not riding around an urban environment.
posted by caddis at 10:10 AM on October 8, 2006

Before I turned sixteen I must have rode 30 miles a day on my bike. I've got the scars to prove it.

For some reason, I have something like a three day clock on my ass that counts down from the moment said ass hits a bike seat to the moment I eat pavement, car bumber, or other bike frame. As soon as that driver's license hit my hand, I don't think I've so much as straddled a two-wheeler.

Seeing these fixed gear jobs nearly causes me to spontaneously break out in road rash, a sort of bicyclist's stigmata.

Oh, the carnage that would ensue with me trying to ride a fixed gear. It's terrifying, really.
posted by quite unimportant at 10:11 AM on October 8, 2006

I know a chap who rides a 12 mile commute across London every day on a fixed wheel. When I asked him why he rides one, he said it's mainly because he just really likes pedalling; for him, it's the most enjoyable way to ride. All the other advantages are secondary considerations to that, apparently (although not having to clean the thing so often is a bonus).
posted by tomsk at 10:47 AM on October 8, 2006

I don't know why others ride fixies. I can tell you why I started and continue to.

There are strong plusses and minuses for fixies. Everyone's weighting formula is different. I ride for fitness and fun, not because I have to, and for me it works out that I end up putting about half my miles on the fixie. It gets used, along with other bikes, for recreation and light errands. I never take it off pavement.

If you're not used to pedaling all the time, there can be a very steep learning curve; fortunately that wasn't the case for me but I've heard all sorts of horror stories. Also I've never dropped the thing or hit a car/person/tree/door/whatever, but I'm a generally cautious rider. If you're the kind who gets into a lot of wrecks I can see the (probably well-advised) reluctance.

Ride only fixies? I don't think that would work for me, and I don't know how folks in really hilly areas do it, though I suspect they're in much better shape than me, and maybe ride bikes geared a little lower than mine.

And yeah, I suspect for a lot of people it's a bandwagon thing, but really, does it surprise any of us that a good chunk of us define ourselves through fashion? I gave up trying to understand that a long time ago and just accept it as one of life's great mysteries.

So anyway, here are the positives, negatives and neutrals as I see them:


1) Technique improvement. Most riders coast too much. A fixie forces you to pedal all the time. Also you learn to unweight the bike when going over obstacles while continuing to pedal. These habits carry over to the other bikes and make me a better rider.

2) Control. It's easier to pick your way around obstacles at low speed. This helps develop balance and it's fun. You also have better control in sketchy conditions, though you need to gear the bike lower if you want to take full advantage of that.

3) Focus. The bike forces you to pay attention. This habit really pays off in traffic and on multi-use paths.

4) Strength/Versatility. With my other bikes, going uphill simply means gearing down and spinning up (I don't even have to get out of the seat.) My cadence almost never varies more than ~10 rpm. The fixie forces me to operate in a wider cadence regime. Climbing a long hill means standing up and pedaling more slowly -- this builds leg strength. I'm convinced the fixie has made me a better hill climber, although any reasonably-high geared single-speed bike should offer the same benefit.

Short hills become a form of interval training -- see how long I can keep the cadence up. You can play that game with any bike, sure, but the fixie makes you play it even when you're tired. I think this helps endurance. Also that habit carries over to the other bikes and makes me a smoother rider.

On descents I'm spinning rather than coasting, and spinning fast -- I think this makes me more flexible but I wouldn't guarantee it. Anyway, it turns out that, like tomsk's buddy, I like to pedal.

5) Fun and fantasy. Variety is fun. Being different is fun. Being able to ride VERY slowly is fun. Having your legs tied directly to the rear wheel is fun. Not having to hear all the stuff in the back making noise is fun. And if you want, you can make believe you're a racer from the time before freewheels and derailers and appreciate even more how hardcore those dudes were. It's also a blast passing kaleidoscope cats and their $2000+ rides with my assemblage of water pipe and duct tape, but that has more to do with riding a lot than any performance advantage the fixie gives me. All this applies to my own sense of fun, of course -- it's totally understandable that others might disagree.

Now the negatives:

1) The bike builds focus, sure, because it's more dangerous. Even when you master a fixed-gear bike, your options are more limited. Stopping is trickier. If you don't have brakes, a broken chain can ruin your day. Getting anything caught between gear and chain stops the rear wheel cold. Even working on the bike is more dangerous -- a finger caught between the chain and sprocket/ring will be mangled, if not chopped off.

2) You can't go everywhere you would with your other rides (at least my fat ass can't.) There will either be hills you have to walk up or unclip/use the brakes on going down. this ties in with...

3) It's slower in hilly country. Even if you climb faster (definitely the case for me on short hills,) you can't coast on long downhills. This limits my speed to ~25 mph where my other bikes would be over 40. Yeah, you can unclip but the picture of unencumbered pedals spinning madly has "bad idea" written all over it, at least in my mind.

4) Pulling the rear wheel is a bit of a pain. It takes some practice before you can put it back on properly aligned and tensioned on the first try, and if you use track nuts you have to carry a wrench.

Neutrals, for me:

1) Weight advantage. I'm a fatass. And anyway my fixie's frame is essentially water pipe and the only reason I ride it is 'cause it was cheap. My road bike is lighter, even with all its 20th century doo-dads.

2) Simplicity. I don't do much maintenance on my der'd bikes, and I really don't have too many problems with them, so even if the fixie has 90% of the issues it's not a big time saver.

So those are the plusses, minuses and neutrals in my mind.
posted by Opposite George at 11:48 AM on October 8, 2006 [2 favorites]

Opposite George
Thanks for that very well thought out comment. Good job.
posted by The Deej at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2006

Thanks, George. I don't think I've ever seen any one person talk about both the positives and negatives--I tend to see either zealots or haters.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:29 PM on October 8, 2006

They're fun! Whenever my friends give me grief about having a hipster bike, I almost always win them over when I let them ride it around the block. Since the vast majority of my cycling happens in short (< 5 mile) trips over notoriously flat country, my bike's inefficiencies don't affect me. i also want to thank the milwaukee police for this piece of bike wisdom: blockquote>There is no way to independently stop the bike independent of the rotation of the rear wheel.
posted by Eamon at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2006

Sorry, it looked right in the preview window.

Also, I should mention that I'm rocking front and rear brakes. Guess I'm just a wimp.
posted by Eamon at 2:32 PM on October 8, 2006

A fixed-gear is simultaneously the antithesis and analogue of an SUV.

The former (especially the sans-brake variety) is less than what is practically necessary, therefore you must be pretty macho to ride it.

The latter is much more than what is practically necessary (especially the brush-bar adorned variety), therefore you must be pretty macho to drive it.

Both are essentially fashion statements unsuited to the vast majority of their consumers.

Vanity is a peculiar thing.
posted by randomstriker at 2:51 PM on October 8, 2006

Poseurs. I didn't get the appeal of fixies YEARS ago.
posted by Eideteker at 7:30 PM on October 8, 2006

A fixie synchronizes you with the urban flow. Imagine, almost magically, arriving everywhere at the right time, not needing to brake.

A fixie is a riding style of forced awareness.

and, most importantly, a fixie is a true variable resistance work-out; the intensity of which separates you from those with derailleurs- the casual user.
posted by lacus at 6:36 AM on October 9, 2006

I read that as: "A fixie is a riding style of forced awkwardness."
posted by Eideteker at 6:53 AM on October 9, 2006

Fixed gear testimonials.
posted by caddis at 7:39 AM on October 9, 2006

the intensity of which separates you from those with derailleurs- the casual user

I'll be sure to bring up how casual we are at our next road race trial. *laughs*
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:12 AM on October 9, 2006

I saw this article in the SF Chron about fixies which painted them disfavorably as a burgeoning hipster icon. Past "I want to be cool like messengers" I can't see the appeal, and even for messengers I can't quite see the appeal. I can see less parts == less shop time but especially in San Francisco it would seem like gears == more efficient. I mean, gears are popular for a reason. Does it go against some slacker ethos to have a backup? A line or two on a loaner?

Seriously, if it were all about how l337 you were on minimalist wheels, I'd argue that there are a number of people who'd say you hadn't gone far enough.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 8:22 AM on October 9, 2006

Lars Ulrich, Eddie Merckx, Ned Overend... casual users all I guess.
posted by Flashman at 10:10 AM on October 9, 2006

Lars Ulrich

The Metallica drummer rides a fixie? ;)
posted by caddis at 10:57 AM on October 9, 2006

I think the appeal of a fixed-gear bike is very difficult to understand without trying one. This was the case for me. When I actually tried one, I got it and loved it immediately. Riding a fixed-gear bike feels very much like running. I was already a single-speed devotee at that point, so the mental leap was a little easier. The difference between freewheel and fixed-gear is one of control. Your control over speed and manuverabilty on a fixed-gear is amazing, and this control makes you feel much safer in adverse traffic and weather conditions. Now, when I ride a bike with a freewheel, I have the odd sensation that I'm spinning wildly out of control. To return to the running analogy, it is the difference between a pair of running shoes and a pair of rollerskates. Yes, you can go faster on the roller skates. No, you don't need a brake on the running shoes.

Does a fixed-gear bike make you cool? No. Do some folks act like they make them cooler? Yes. (Think about it though - this is true of a lot of bicycling aficionados. Most bike shops are absurd hotbeds of 'tude, either of the roadie, messenger or mountian bike flavor. It saddens me that our hobby/sport is divided into so many little cliques.) Is a fixed-gear great for road racing? No. Long-distance touring? No. Off-roading? Absolutely not. Is it good for anyone with knee troubles? No. Is it good for town & city riding? Resoundingly, yes. Is it good for winter training? Yes. (Also, I hear that they sometimes race these things on tracks.)

For the record, my fixie has a rack, reflectors, and brakes. The rear wheel is a flip-flop with a 16-tooth freewheel on the other side. I use that for long rides. Because its not a multi-geared road bike, not an ultra-minimal fixie, and doesn't have hydraulics and suv tires, I get attitude from all sides. I don't care, because it suits my needs perfectly.

And because the original point of the thread is the FGG - I loves me that website. There are some beautiful bikes on that page.
posted by Cranialtorque at 11:31 AM on October 9, 2006

Jan, tabarnac. I shoulda just said Jacquie Phelan.
Lars probably would ride a fixie, but those others, not.
Dammit though after all this I would like to get on one of these things and see what the fuss is all about. I think the good folks at the Oxford Cycle Workshop are putting them together - maybe they'll let me take a test ride on one.
posted by Flashman at 11:32 AM on October 9, 2006

Do it, Flashman!

before trying out a fixie for the first time, do 3 things:
1) find a flat empty place (playground or parking lot maybe); walk the bike there and try it in that safe place.
2) go slow! its easy to get going quickly then be surprised when you want to coast and can't. worst-case scenario is you getting thrown over the handlebars.
3) say to yourself at least 3 times "I won't be able to coast." Then realize you're still surprised when you can't.

You can logically understand the bike, but muscle memory only learns - and re-learns - by doing.

posted by Cranialtorque at 1:48 PM on October 9, 2006

Oh, and the fixie purists will argue against this, but use a bike with a front brake. Brakes are good. People make mistakes. I don't need the brake on my bike 95% of the time, but I'm real glad its there the other 5%.
posted by Cranialtorque at 1:52 PM on October 9, 2006

Blazecock Pileon, bring your boys to Urbania; we'll see who eats whose lunch!

Front brake, no helmet.
posted by lacus at 3:03 PM on October 9, 2006

hmm. i don't like the anti-hipsters or the fad-followers. i am in a bind here. i guess i don't get to hate anybody this time.

the intensity of which separates you from those with derailleurs- the casual user

well trolled, lacus, but you've demonstrated (perhaps intentionally) why there's a bit of a backlash. no one likes a snob.

i've been riding a variety of freewheel bikes from $35 beaters to very nice (for me) road bikes everyday for about 8 years now, rain or shine. i suppose i'm a casual user in your eyes (i only do routine maintenance and cleaning and leave the trueing and tune-ups to the pros), but i've never understood how people can think that the fixed gears are faster. i do have an open mind, but i just can't understand the reasoning.

i *get* the lighter weight thing, but it seems like (even ignoring hills) the ability to start at a similar gear, then shift into a higher gear gives me a *huge* speed advantage over any fixed gear. at least it seems that way on the street. i won't say i've never been passed by someone on a fixed gear (usually pedaling so fast they look like little kids on dirt bikes), but if i was competitively insane and wanted to speed demon 100% all day, i doubt any fixed gear could compare (of course, allowing for awesome riders). i generally blow past the fixed gear folks at high speeds with little effort.

i like gears, mostly for steep hills, but also for high speeds. i like pedaling at the same rate no matter the speed. is that so wrong? (i have tried fixed gears. not my speed.)

however, i do agree with George Spiggott about the downhill thing. if there was only something akin to automobile downshifting, like a switch that let you change between fixed wheel and freewheel.

oh, and please get a helmet, at least in the city. it has nothing to do with your riding. drivers do odd things, and very bad things sometimes. there are days when i hate drivers with a passion, but i wouldn't want anyone to be burdened with killing someone just because they pulled into a parking spot at 30 mph with no signal.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:24 PM on October 9, 2006

Man, how did I miss this thread? Oh, yeah, I was working on the staff at a charity bike ride.

#64 (early adopter) and #916 and #2450.

Oh yeah - brakes? Helmets? Use or not use, what the fuck do I care what you do?
posted by fixedgear at 7:14 AM on October 24, 2006

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