Radioactive Isotopes for sale

November 30, 2006 10:38 AM

"If you really wanted to poison someone, you would of course have to come up with a way to remove the invisible amount of material from the exempt sources - which is just about physically impossible and combine them together. Of course you would also need that 15,000 exempt sources." You can buy the radioactive material, Polonium-210, that killed a former Russian spy for only $69--but you'd need a lot of it to take down an enemy or two.
posted by mattbucher (28 comments total)

United Nuclear is run by Bob Lazar, who some 20 years ago claimed to have worked on alien spaceships on a secret military base in Nevada, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

Sounds like a reliable source of both information and radioactive material.
posted by notmydesk at 11:09 AM on November 30, 2006

Not just an assassination, also a statement of capability. We can use radiological weapons in your city. Now where did I leave my dirty bomb?
posted by econous at 11:12 AM on November 30, 2006

Sounds like a reliable source of both information and radioactive material.

Don't know about information, but my dealings with United Nuclear have had no problems.
posted by eriko at 11:13 AM on November 30, 2006

I don't understand this use of radioactive materials as poison. No doubt they are dangerous, but wouldn't it be much easier to just give someone an insulin overdose or if you insist on being exotic, why not use ricin?
posted by quin at 11:33 AM on November 30, 2006

why not use ricin?

Yeah, United Nuclear is essentially saying that. Didn't they poison Yuschenko with dioxin?
posted by mattbucher at 11:42 AM on November 30, 2006

i think the idea is that it wouldn't leave a trace.

This person says that anybody searching for polonium would have had to have been tipped off.
posted by empath at 11:45 AM on November 30, 2006

I first heard of these guys here. I swear it's been linked to in mefi, but search isn't showing it.
posted by peeedro at 11:51 AM on November 30, 2006

Whether or not he's trustworthy w.r.t. radioisotope safety (and I'm not competent to judge that,) Bob Lazar is a rather well-known fellow among the tin-foil beanie crowd. He used to be on Coast to Coast AM a lot when Art Bell was on weeknights:

The Bob Lazar Corner
Bob Lazar Wikipedia Entry
Investigation of Bob Lazar's MIT Claims
UFOmind.com's main Bob Lazar page

I'd link to his home page (for his story on element 115) but it requires authorization to get past the picture of the Gray ET (no foolin'.) Aw heck, just for goof value, here it is: www.boblazar.com
posted by Opposite George at 11:55 AM on November 30, 2006

1998 called, it wants it's web design template back.
posted by daHIFI at 12:37 PM on November 30, 2006

I don't understand this use of radioactive materials as poison. No doubt they are dangerous, but wouldn't it be much easier to just give someone an insulin overdose or if you insist on being exotic, why not use ricin?

Because Putin is old school.
posted by darkripper at 1:16 PM on November 30, 2006

O.G., that's not Bob Lazar's "home page," but more like a stalker page. There's a difference.

Having spent two days with Lazar and his wife several months ago, I can tell you that he's one of the more sane and sensible "tin-foil beanie" people I've ever met. When I asked him about the UFO stuff, he declined to talk about it, and said he wished he never had. And I can also tell you that the anti-Lazar crew online is as obsessed and manaical as they claim he is.

I'm not saying that the claims he made ten years ago were accurate. I'm just saying that some of his anti-fans online are nuts. Lazar is actually an amazingly un-bizarre guy in person. He's like your geeky uncle, tinkering in the garage.
posted by digaman at 1:22 PM on November 30, 2006

i think the idea is that it wouldn't leave a trace.

Surely the other way around? Vocal and otherwise healthy critics of the Kremlin dying suddenly will always raise a few eyebrows and likely provoke an autopsy. If you know that's coming, you use your signature method to show the world that you were responsible.

It's not as if the Russian gov't has ever been shy about this kind of thing.
posted by IndigoJones at 2:32 PM on November 30, 2006

I'm under the impression that there's a lot more Polonium-210 in the anti-static camera brushes that use the stuff. Of course, you'd have to figure out how to purify it, since it's mixed in with ceramic (probably easy for a talented chemist.)
posted by Mitrovarr at 2:53 PM on November 30, 2006

And don't forget to get everyone on your christmas list a Polonium-210 coffee mug.
posted by klausness at 3:22 PM on November 30, 2006

that's not Bob Lazar's "home page," but more like a stalker page.

Thanks. That'll show me for trusting Wikipedia (dammit.)

I can tell you that he's one of the more sane and sensible "tin-foil beanie" people I've ever met.

That may well be. I always kind of thought he was a guy who made incredible claims for his own reasons and the story ran away from him; not necessarily that he's crazy.

I just remember hearing him on the Art Bell show years ago and then read up on some of his more hard-to-believe claims. Honestly I don't recall if they were directly from his website or being repeated on somebody else's, but they sounded freaking nuts.

Has he recanted this stuff, does he claim he never said it, or does he just not talk about it any more?

I'm just saying that some of his anti-fans online are nuts.

I totally buy that. Reminds me of the way too many folks in the skeptic community can be -- even when they're right they can be juvenile, or even stalkerish-crazy about it (Randi fanboys -- I'm talking about you.) At some point you wonder why they just can't let some stuff go, or if they just didn't get enough lollipops in their youth.

I do think that is an aspect of what makes him interesting, though - he attracts such a rabid group of deniers (many of whom make equally-hard-to-believe claims.) Of course, the fact that I want to believe the claims attributed to him are true makes him interesting too.
posted by Opposite George at 3:39 PM on November 30, 2006

God, that was an awful sentence. What I meant was, "I want to believe the stories (whether he really said them or not) and that makes him interesting, too."
posted by Opposite George at 3:41 PM on November 30, 2006

Has he recanted this stuff, does he claim he never said it, or does he just not talk about it any more?

OG, in two days, the only time Lazar and I talked about UFOs was when I asked about them and he said he didn't want to talk about it.

He's definitely an unusual guy, but he was quite pleasant low-key company, and his wife is a sweetheart.
posted by digaman at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2006

'United Nuclear hasn't been linked in any way to the Litvinenko case.'

Nowhere. Except here.

These anti-static brushes are a once-a-year (approximate) purchase for glovebox users. I believe it highly improbable that any rogue group of people are likely to be able to source 15000 in a sensible timespan (ie. before radioactive decay makes it pointless) from any single commercial source, even all of them put together, let alone have the capability to process them into a usable lethal agent. Especially without arousing considerable suspicion.

There has been speculation in the press that Litvinenko may have poisoned himself which I find even more ridiculous given these factors.

The method of poisoning chosen suggests to me either it was hoped to be undetectable and the authorities were given a tip-off by someone in on the plot, or it was assumed it would be detected eventually and a clear message would be sent to other people in Litvinenko's circumstances that they should 'pipe-down' (given the choice of poison).

I speculate that this was performed by some government agency, be it Putin's edict or from some other government to incriminate him. Putin has a reputation that precedes him, but many European countries depend on Russian gas and feel uncomfortable at the power that this gives the Russians.

I fear we will never know the true story of this episode due to politics ie. fear of Cold War II, but I can't help having this niggling feeling that this is oddly timed with the release of Casino Royale...
posted by 999 at 4:49 PM on November 30, 2006

Anyone heard plausible theories on why Polonium was used? Besides being deadly, it seems to have the following drawbacks:

Extremely expensive and difficult to obtain;

Rare enough to limit possible suppliers;

Once the seal on the container is opened it tends to leave a detectable trail that helps with tracking the assassin(s).

posted by anonymous_k at 4:51 PM on November 30, 2006

According to this source, static eliminators have between 10 and 100 millicuries of Polonium in them. The United Nuclear sources have a tenth of a microcurie. That's a difference of 100,000 to a million times! So, perhaps they would have been practical sources of Polonium.

I think anyone could have gotten 10 of the antistatic brushes without raising flags, and perhaps up to a hundred or a thousand if they had decent connections. As for the ones used in industry, probably anyone could get at least one.
posted by Mitrovarr at 5:32 PM on November 30, 2006

Okay okay let's think about this. Obviously whoever came up with the polonium had access to nuclear reactor capable of producing it, but not necessarily one capable of producing plutonium, or one that needed enriched uranium. So what kind of reactor is needed?
posted by delmoi at 6:12 PM on November 30, 2006

Anyone heard plausible theories on why Polonium was used?

Rouge(ish) agents of the fsb have made a statement with this. They could have easily used a knife/bullet/poisoned tip umbrella. Instead used a multi million dollar radiological poison. Thanks be to whomever they are avowed practicalists, and not our enemy. Why? To send a message. They are having a laugh at our, weak minded liberal*, expense.

* To these guys republicans are far too liberal... why they are pussies... ornamental plants even.
posted by econous at 6:59 PM on November 30, 2006

Hey kids, did you know that you can build a working nuclear reactor in your toolshed from a bunch of old smoke detectors? This boy scout did it to earn a merit badge. A very chilling and well-written true story. (And no, NSA readers, I am not endorsing this. It's a cautionary tale, and a fascinating one.)
posted by digaman at 7:05 PM on November 30, 2006

The other day I heard a very interesting but sadly, too short, interview on NPR regarding the use of Polonium-210.

"Robert Siegel talks with John Emsley, author of The Elements of Murder: A History of Poison, about the poisoning of Russian-spy-turned-Kremlin-critic Alexander Litvinenko. Litvinenko died last Thursday after being poisoned with radioactive Polonium-210."

Emsley says that a piece of Polonium-210 the size of a grain of sand is easily enough to cause an agonizing, slow, and certain death.
posted by redteam at 7:37 PM on November 30, 2006

Since they've traced the radioactivity, circumstantially, to at least one Moscow-London flight, I'm thinking they didn't need to buy them on the open market, but were provisioned with a direct supply from the tap as it were.

They've also found out that whoever had it dropped some on the floor of the hotel. Unbelievable.
posted by dhartung at 9:56 PM on November 30, 2006

they were probably drunk, dhartung
posted by matteo at 5:09 AM on December 1, 2006

Russians are dropping like flies around Europe at the moment. So candidate for worst job in in the world right now? Roman Abramovich's double. There's a man who is paid to act as a fake Abramovich as he's his spitting image. So Fake Roman gets sent to watch rival football teams. The subsequent media coverage often destabilises other star players And Fake Roman leaves Chelsea after every game in Roman's car while the oligarch leaves through a secret underground tunnel.
From PopBitch. Don't know if it's true, but it seems something Ellroy would love to write.
posted by darkripper at 7:02 AM on December 1, 2006

Russia's New Cold War
posted by adamvasco at 4:12 AM on December 2, 2006