Coffee Pot Meth
February 9, 2007 6:54 AM   Subscribe

Coffee Pot Meth. "I know enough now that whenever I go to a hotel, regardless of how nice it is, I'll never use a coffee pot."
posted by stbalbach (138 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
This must explain why there are now Starbucks inside Starbucks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:56 AM on February 9, 2007


Man, that seriously pings my "future urban legend" sensor.
posted by drezdn at 7:00 AM on February 9, 2007


Wouldn't you wash the coffee pot before using it anyways?
posted by Vindaloo at 7:01 AM on February 9, 2007


Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit drinking coffee.
posted by NationalKato at 7:04 AM on February 9, 2007 [5 favorites]


Honestly, considering the crappy foil packet of stale Folger's the hotels leave with the machine I think you are better off with the meth residue mixed in.

*Dreams up own "no", but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express joke*
posted by ernie at 7:08 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


paging snopes…
posted by matthewr at 7:09 AM on February 9, 2007


Brewing up the morning pot of bathtub crank is the next logical step in America's energy drink progression. Pulling imaginary worms out of your face with rusty needle nose pliers will be the new shaving in the car on the way to work.
posted by The Straightener at 7:10 AM on February 9, 2007 [10 favorites]


Jeez -- Between this and all those stolen kidneys, I don't think I'll ever stay in a hotel again.
posted by spilon at 7:12 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Phillips says it's pretty easy to tell if a coffee pot has been used to cook meth. It will have a dark reddish-orange stain."

I think that describes every coffee pot at some point in it's stain-collecting life. It certainly describes teapots. Not much to go on there . . .
posted by datacenter refugee at 7:13 AM on February 9, 2007


Boy, my coffee sure had some extra zing today.
posted by caddis at 7:15 AM on February 9, 2007


Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.
posted by grytpype at 7:16 AM on February 9, 2007


Where are these hotels? And which rooms?

Just asking.....
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:20 AM on February 9, 2007


Meth is usually smuggled in trucks like these.
posted by peeedro at 7:21 AM on February 9, 2007 [6 favorites]


Darn, I was hoping for some sort of "how-to"...
posted by beno at 7:22 AM on February 9, 2007




This thread is useless without recipes.
posted by Greg Nog at 7:23 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


Man, that seriously pings my "future urban legend" sensor.

As does it mine.
posted by ericb at 7:27 AM on February 9, 2007


The best part of wakin' up...
posted by SinisterPurpose at 7:27 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit lickin' coffee pots!
posted by loquacious at 7:33 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


How about some Meth Coffee? Looks about right.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:33 AM on February 9, 2007


It won't be long before corporate offices come equipped with vending machines that dispense pre-gutted and scrubbed light bulbs with a twenty worth of ice in them.
posted by The Straightener at 7:33 AM on February 9, 2007


Folger's CRYSTALS
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 7:36 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


From a probably nsfw drug site, the steps for purifying meth includes the instructions, "Do not use a gas stove, since the brake cleaner vapors will produce toxic phosgene [actually phosphine] if there is contact with a flame. Instead use a hot plate or electric stove at low heat only." So a coffee pot might work in a pinch.
posted by peeedro at 7:38 AM on February 9, 2007


Happy Morning!
posted by empath at 7:43 AM on February 9, 2007 [2 favorites]


I always knew coffee was a gateway drug.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:53 AM on February 9, 2007


"...it's pretty easy to tell if a coffee pot has been used to cook meth. It will have a dark reddish-orange stain."

WHEW. I was afraid this was going to be another "makeshift hotel spittoon" scare.
posted by katillathehun at 7:54 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]




BITCHYOUSAIDTHISWASDECAFI'MGOINGTORIPYOURFUCKINGHEADOFFANDPUTMYDICKINYOURWINDPIPE!
posted by ColdChef at 8:02 AM on February 9, 2007


Look, man, if I was in a hotel room and I saw that there was a reddish stain in my god damn coffee pot, not only would I NOT USE THE POT, I'd seriously consider insisting on another room/hotel. Wouldn't you? I say non-issue.
posted by spicynuts at 8:06 AM on February 9, 2007


ColdChef, please, it's Christmas!

And *yawn* on the story.

Someone, somewhere, used a coffeepot to try to cook meth, and now it's a nationwide epidemic.
posted by Ynoxas at 8:14 AM on February 9, 2007


I'm not staying in any hotel that requires me to cook up my own meth. That's what room service is for.
posted by hojoki at 8:16 AM on February 9, 2007 [3 favorites]


actually, speaking of "gateway drugs" I read the post as Coffee, Pot, Meth. That is, three separate things, and at first i assumed it's be something linking the consumption of coffee eventually leading to meth.
posted by edgeways at 8:19 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


And in further news, Anna Nicole Smith will get autopsied soon.
posted by davy at 8:24 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think you mean "In related news."
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:25 AM on February 9, 2007


Well, I submitted this to Snopes - we'll see if they can dig up something about it.

and edgeways - that was my first thought, too...
posted by Reverend Robbie at 8:25 AM on February 9, 2007


RIDE THE SNAKE
posted by perianwyr at 8:29 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


The meth hysteria is getting out of hand.

Then again I still cant sleep in hotel sheets because of all the satanic human sacrifice and corpse buggering, so what can you do?
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:33 AM on February 9, 2007


i would also advise against using remaindered dildos and dildo componets you may or may not find in hotel rooms.
posted by breakfast_yeti at 8:37 AM on February 9, 2007


And scrolling down I find, so aptly generated by Google ads:

Keurig K-Cup Brewer
No measuring, no grinding and no mess with K-Cups

I imagine that's no grinding of teeth? Sign of a smooth brew.
posted by felix grundy at 8:38 AM on February 9, 2007


yikes. The whole meth/crank is crazy. It sounds like the entire hotel room is likely to be toxic. Wouldn't the hotel owner be alerted by the presence of the other equipment used?

Cafe Bustelo is so strong I call it the cocaine of coffee.
posted by nickyskye at 8:44 AM on February 9, 2007


Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop picking wrong days!
posted by Kwine at 8:45 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think they'd be alerted by the godawful smells of ammonia, organic solvents, and phosphine, too.
posted by solotoro at 8:46 AM on February 9, 2007


Time to ban coffeepots, I guess.

Oh, original recipe Nyquil -- how I miss thee!
posted by gigawhat? at 8:48 AM on February 9, 2007


"WHEW. I was afraid this was going to be another 'makeshift hotel spittoon' scare."

That was awesome katillathehun.

Logically you could use any type of container (bathub, sink, coffee pot, ice bucket, toilet, etc.) in many of the various stages of meth production. Therefore we should not use any basin or container like things provided by hotels. Right?

While I don't think this is a myth necessarily (What's to stop some entrepreneuring meth cook from using a coffee pot to make meth? Nothing.) I think the value in reporting on it is debatable.

If this is really such a problem, then shouldn't these cops being doing something about it? Remove coffee pots from hotels? Make people rent them? Write legislation preventing hotels from providing basins, bowls or other containers which can be used to cook satan's cotton candy?

Rather than proposing a solution or action which acknowledges and utilizes the power of the elements of the dominant group (the cops, the non-meth users), the proposal of this article is quite literally: be afraid, stop doing something you would ordinarily do.

This is totally twisted propaganda promulgating an ideology of of majority-as-victims. This article is the core of how the drug war continues to live as valuable and essential in the minds of millions of otherwise intelligent Americans.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 8:50 AM on February 9, 2007


Y'all got jokes.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:55 AM on February 9, 2007


Somebody better tell Jack Shafer
posted by meta_eli at 8:55 AM on February 9, 2007


Isn't making meth a little more complicated than "mixing it all up and just leaving it there to cook? Doesn't it involve boiling large quantities of diesel fuel? Large collections of various ingredients in various states of precipitaion and solution?

I call bullshit. This is just more "everybody is a drug crime suspect! accuse your neighbors for a free hat!" propaganda.
posted by tehloki at 9:01 AM on February 9, 2007


Meth is fucking nasty, but it's not "boiling large quantities of diesel fuel" nasty.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:05 AM on February 9, 2007




Normally I'm a lot more concerned about the quality of the coffee "packets" (more often than not, decaf or some lame "Colombian" "blend") than what happened to the pot before I was there.

Oh, and hotel toilets, showers, sinks and beds are dirty too. I'll still use them.
posted by drinkcoffee at 9:14 AM on February 9, 2007


How could the cost of renting a hotel room, even a fleabag hotel room, be cheaper than just buying a coffeemaker and using it to make meth over and over again? I call shenanigans.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:15 AM on February 9, 2007


Does anybody here know how much of a risk this really is? I know that meth is made up of Bad Stuff, but after washing out a pot that was used to cook it (and for how long? one night? how long do people hang around in hotel rooms cooking meth?), how much of the Bad Stuff is left and how dangerous is it? We are bombarded with toxins every day from the air we breathe, from our drinking water. So I'm just wondering, is this hype/hysteria or is it something to really concern ourselves with?
posted by iguanapolitico at 9:16 AM on February 9, 2007


It's not bullshit. Actually, I'm pretty surprised that there are so many people on here that refuse to believe it. Heck, look at the great lengths people go through to stash marijuana. Meth nets a whole hell of a lot more money, so there's a huge incentive to keep the operation going.

They're not putting in a batch of chemicals into the pot and pressing "Brew." They're usually just using the coffee pot itself and heating what they need with a propane torch. The coffee pot just happens to be a useful and convenient container to do it in. I've seen quite a few photos of it.
(Courtesy of the Las Vegas Metro PD, DEA, FBI, and California ABC. No, I don't have any online, they were all in PowerPoint slides.)

The meth heads will mix what they need in one location and then use others to do other prep work.

Here is an interesting writeup on meth & meth labs.

It's pretty nasty shit. It sounds like the point of the article is that meth makers will use the coffee pot to cook stuff up, rinse it out, and put it right back on its base where some unsuspecting traveler could use it.
Probably a good reason to not use the hotel stuff and to just get a room near a Starbucks.
posted by drstein at 9:20 AM on February 9, 2007


I like to think I stay in a bit better class of hotel than the local meth dealer...

but i think the rest of you have a lot to worry about...
posted by HuronBob at 9:22 AM on February 9, 2007


iguanapolitico, you're worried about possible toxins and your solution is to wash the meth pot with dihydrogen monoxide? That shit will kill you.
posted by veggieboy at 9:31 AM on February 9, 2007


I think the value in reporting on it is debatable.

Don't watch the local news in Las Vegas, the once created a small concern for local business by reporting on so many methlab fires and explosions in hotel rooms.
posted by Brian B. at 9:34 AM on February 9, 2007


They're usually just using the coffee pot itself and heating what they need with a propane torch. The coffee pot just happens to be a useful and convenient container to do it in.

Okay. So are they regularly checking into hotels and using the room's coffee pot to do it, rather than just having a pot in the lab? The hotel room part is the bit that seems silly to me.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:38 AM on February 9, 2007


There's a difference between hotel drip coffee and meth?
posted by miss lynnster at 9:41 AM on February 9, 2007


"How could the cost of renting a hotel room, even a fleabag hotel room, be cheaper than just buying a coffeemaker and using it to make meth over and over again? I call shenanigans."

If you rent a room under a fake name at a shady motel then you don't have to worry about running the meth lab at home with your family.
posted by sourbrew at 9:44 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


That's nothing. I worry about the people who boil their peanuts in coffee makers.
posted by trondant at 9:47 AM on February 9, 2007


Wouldn't the propane torch shatter the coffee pot? They're Mr. Coffees, not lab-grade Pyrex.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:48 AM on February 9, 2007


I, too, read the title as Coffee, Pot, Meth. I figured it was some kind of breakfast combo.
posted by effwerd at 9:48 AM on February 9, 2007


We've secretly swapped these diners' coffee with meth. Let's see if they noticed ...
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:55 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


So if you start feeling like things are crawling on you, you should check the coffeepot before you check the mattress?
posted by pernoctalian at 9:59 AM on February 9, 2007


*The whole meth/crank thing is crazy...
posted by nickyskye at 10:01 AM on February 9, 2007


Here is an interesting writeup on meth & meth labs.

It's pretty nasty shit.


That article says that one of the "street names" for meth is "crack". I'd take it with a grain of salt.

A very strong acid is used, but none of the ingredients, if diluted would be harmful, and they are both present in your body all the time (posphorus and iodine). I suppose there might be some bad chemicals if the process was done incorrectly, though.
posted by delmoi at 10:04 AM on February 9, 2007


"How could the cost of renting a hotel room, even a fleabag hotel room, be cheaper than just buying a coffeemaker and using it to make meth over and over again? I call shenanigans."

Making meth produces a powerful toxic smell, and ruins whatever room you make it in over and over. They typically condemn meth houses and trailers in the Southwest. It is a common scene to see workers in white suits and masks sorting through the dump piles in the yards of meth labs, because the chemicals leach into the ground water where they are about as toxic as dry cleaning fluid. Methlabs usually remove themselves to rural locations, or hotel rooms if they are urban/suburban.

I guess most people here aren't used to seeing signs in their grocery store apologizing for the removal of certain types of matches and cold remedies because of meth cooks using them.
posted by Brian B. at 10:04 AM on February 9, 2007


It won't be long before corporate offices come equipped with vending machines that dispense pre-gutted and scrubbed light bulbs with a twenty worth of ice in them.

That day is already here (youtube, probably NSFW).
posted by treepour at 10:05 AM on February 9, 2007


> Then again I still cant sleep in hotel sheets because of all the satanic human sacrifice and corpse
> buggering, so what can you do?

No no, that's just bedbugs.
posted by jfuller at 10:05 AM on February 9, 2007


>iguanapolitico, you're worried about possible toxins and your solution is to wash the meth pot with dihydrogen monoxide? That shit will kill you.

Did I say I have a solution? I have a question. Is this shit killing us? Have there been scads of previously unexplained hotel patron deaths that have finally been attributed to meth residue from the coffee pot?
posted by iguanapolitico at 10:26 AM on February 9, 2007


Did I say I have a solution?

You suggested washing the pot out. Water from unclean hotel taps is likely to contain substantial quantities of dihydrogen monoxide, a chemical which is directly responsible for thousands of deaths per year in America alone.
posted by matthewr at 10:36 AM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


Oh, original recipe Nyquil -- how I miss thee!

Ah-ha! I took some last night from a new bottle and it didn't do what it used to do, I kept waking up :( Luckily I still have some old expired bottles with pseudoephedrine listed on the label.
posted by stbalbach at 10:39 AM on February 9, 2007


That article says that one of the "street names" for meth is "crack". I'd take it with a grain of salt....A very strong acid is used, but none of the ingredients, if diluted would be harmful,

Meth addicts are commonly called tweakers and crackheads, and phosphine is highly toxic and meth makes more waste product than it consumes, which doesn't include the people who recycle their urine.
posted by Brian B. at 10:44 AM on February 9, 2007


i call bs. 1. Why would a meth user bring supplies to a hotel just to cook it? 2. Do you honestly think a meth user would pay for a hotel. 3. Meth cooks intrinsically lack a good job which would send them them to travel for work.
posted by killyb at 10:44 AM on February 9, 2007


Forgot one of my links.
posted by Brian B. at 10:45 AM on February 9, 2007


>You suggested washing the pot out. Water from unclean hotel taps is likely to contain substantial quantities of dihydrogen monoxide, a chemical which is directly responsible for thousands of deaths per year in America alone.

Oh, ok, then you're agreeing with me. Cool. ;)
posted by iguanapolitico at 10:49 AM on February 9, 2007


killyb, at the bottom of this link are tips for hotel managers to fight meth production.
posted by Brian B. at 10:51 AM on February 9, 2007


Wouldn't the intense and unpleasant smell produced by meth production tip off the hotel staff that there are illegal doin's a' transpirin'? I would imagine the hotel management would take a dim view of this sort of thing, even in a shithole, as the risk of explosion/DEA raid/complete ruination of the room would outweigh any possible bribe the cook could swing their way.

Anyway, just wondering.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:57 AM on February 9, 2007


Look... Everything in moderation. That includes Dihydrogen Monoxide and Crystal Meth.

Jeez, addicts everywhere. Just don't drown in the shit.

Yeah, maybe a meth addict is called a crackhead because they're both "stimmed" but it doesn't mean they ARE a crackhead. A tweaker, sure. AFAIK, tweaker is the "proper" terminology for people who tweak on meth.

I just have a healthy suspicion of "official" sites like this. That's not to say that meth (and crack, for that matter) isn't a horrible thing. It is. However, it saddens me to see so much of this shit and realize that a good chunk of it is propaganda for the drug war. Responsible education is the key, not the half-truthful fearmongering that tends to be the modus operandi of prohibitionists.

Diesel fuel? Nah, I believe it's battery acid. I always love that. Oh NOES!!!! They make these drugs out of battery acid. Imagine what that does to your brain! Showing a complete lack of understanding of chemical processes. Not that there aren't much better chemicals out there, but battery acid is a cheap, convenient substitute when you make it so damned hard to get "legitimate" supplies of the proper acids and solvents and shit...
posted by symbioid at 11:07 AM on February 9, 2007



And scrolling down I find, so aptly generated by Google ads:

Keurig K-Cup Brewer
No measuring, no grinding and no mess with K-Cups


Interestingly, the Keurig brewers don't use a pot or a hot plate, so these would actually be risk free...
posted by Navelgazer at 11:10 AM on February 9, 2007


brian b.

just because it's on the web doesn't make it true. like i said. i'd like to see real numbers of the number of times this has actually been discovered. it just doesn't seem logical....and yes i know meth cookers don't think logically...but....a hotel room to make one or two hits of meth?!
posted by killyb at 11:15 AM on February 9, 2007


symbioid, I think the government has ignored the problem until people noticed. In fact, the government was the problem, by handing out meth by the ton in the military and thus going light on it and learning to politically focus on pot use instead because it was parent-child issue. I believe your argument is another kind of propaganda, the kind issued by dogmatic libertarians.
posted by Brian B. at 11:25 AM on February 9, 2007


killyb, there is a modicum of predictability in a transient using a motel to make and sell something toxic and illegal that must be abandoned on short notice. I would also present, as evidence, that they must go around to town to town and buy out all the grocery stores for precursor material.
posted by Brian B. at 11:29 AM on February 9, 2007


Idont'tbelievethisatallthecoffeeIhadinmyhotelroomthismoriningtastedperfectlynormalandwokemerighthehellup. ImsososossohappyhappytobealivethatIcouldjustdie.Thereareexactly572tilesontheceilingofthisroom.22ofwhicharecracked.Thedoginthelotnexthowlsatintervalsofexctly2.3minutes, youknow.Wow,thisinternetthingisfun.Metafilterblueissuchaprettycolor. IthinkI'llcarveastatueofLemmyKilmisteroutofthesebarsofsoaptheythoughtfullyleftforme intheshower. Then I'llgoroba7-11causeIneedsomecash.

*clutches heart, dies*
posted by jonmc at 11:30 AM on February 9, 2007 [2 favorites]


A hotel where the cleaning staff finds the coffee pot encrusted with caustic chemicals, and just leaves it sitting there? It seems to me that's not a hotel I would want to stay at in the first place.

The case in question: it might be possible, I suppose that some meth lab types would brew up a small batch in a hotel room. Let's say they were jonesing and had run out of their supply, so they needed to whip up a few grams to keep going for the next couple days. Or maybe they had a few leftover ounces of the various makings, and figured it was a waste to throw the stuff out.

But it's hard to imagine any kind of large-scale operation whose m.o. was cooking meth in hotel room mini-pots.

I call scare tactics: "You may not think meth is hurting you, but you might just end up poisoned by a meth-related Mr. Coffee!"
posted by La Cieca at 11:35 AM on February 9, 2007


drstein:"Here is an interesting writeup on meth & meth labs."

This bit struck me as a particularly insightful clue:

(Look out for) bizzare wall writings or graffiti inside the property.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:36 AM on February 9, 2007


Navelgazer, I know! That's why there'd be no grinding of coffee or teeth.
posted by felix grundy at 11:40 AM on February 9, 2007


Well, last week I stayed at a terminally skeevy motel in the heart of rural methland (somewhere off I-81 in Virginia) and I woke up and made coffee in the grunged out tiny Mr. Coffee without really washing it out because, you know, I'm just sort of not that phobic and . . . nothing happened. Did I get ripped off, or what? I mean, the coffee was gross and all, but then it usually is.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:13 PM on February 9, 2007


Meth addicts are commonly called tweakers and crackheads

Crack and Meth are completely different substances. Geez.

I guess most people here aren't used to seeing signs in their grocery store apologizing for the removal of certain types of matches and cold remedies because of meth cooks using them.

There's now a federal law mandating that. And my state used to be the "meth capital" of the country. There were plenty of restrictions, and some voluntary ones at places like Wal-Mart. I never noticed because I rarely catch colds and don't usually take medicine for it.
posted by delmoi at 12:47 PM on February 9, 2007


Apparently living on one's knees and in continuous, abject terror of every fucking little thing is the latest American "in" trend.

I think I'll skip this one.
posted by clevershark at 12:48 PM on February 9, 2007


10341
Meth addicts are commonly called tweakers and crackheads

Crack and Meth are completely different substances. Geez.

I guess most people here aren't used to seeing signs in their grocery store apologizing for the removal of certain types of matches and cold remedies because of meth cooks using them.

There's now a federal law mandating that. And my state used to be the "meth capital" of the country. There were plenty of restrictions, and some voluntary ones at places like Wal-Mart. I never noticed because I rarely catch colds and don't usually take medicine for it.

Anyway, the whole thing is ridiculous. Methamphetimine is a schedule two drug, proscribed to children with ADD. Would the FDA have approved it if it was that bad for you? Probably not. It may be that lots of amateur cooks putting out a lot of toxic substances, but the drug couldn't be that harmful in and of itself.
posted by delmoi at 12:55 PM on February 9, 2007


We've secretly swapped these diners' coffee with meth. Let's see if they noticed ...
posted by Astro Zombie


Chris Farley?
posted by Totally Zanzibarin' Ya at 1:06 PM on February 9, 2007


delmoi, are you referring to adderall? It is not methamphetamine. It is plain amphetamine, and there is a difference -- kinda like the difference between crack and coke. And also meth users do sometimes call meth "crack." And also: HAHAHA FUNNYYYYYY!!! No, really.
posted by gorgor_balabala at 1:33 PM on February 9, 2007


>Meth addicts are commonly called tweakers and crackheads

Crack and Meth are completely different substances. Geez.


Maybe the confusion stems from the term crank. I've never heard any of the tweakers I used to know refer to it as crack. Maybe times and terms have changed.
posted by effwerd at 1:41 PM on February 9, 2007


gorgor: no, he is referring to Desoxyn. Which is methamphetamine, and is prescribed to children. And you're right that there is a difference between amphetamine and methamphetamine similar to the difference between coke and crack. Both will get you really freaking high, of course, just as Adderall will get you really freaking high if you snort it up.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on February 9, 2007


Delmoi wasn't referring to Adderall, he was referring to meth, brand name desoxyn.
posted by The Straightener at 1:50 PM on February 9, 2007


Jinxed :(
posted by The Straightener at 1:50 PM on February 9, 2007


justinian: ahhhh, pardon. forgot about Desoxyn. Any amphetamine, taken in any form, will get me psychotically high, so it tends to look all the same.

effwerd, could not find 'net evidence, but 'tis true about the terms. BTW, and excuse me, but are you effable, or ineffable?
posted by gorgor_balabala at 1:52 PM on February 9, 2007


As any law enforcement officer about illicit drugs and fully half would tell you users are pieces of shit before he heads off to the bar to pound back some cold ones with his colleagues.

The drug war is a vast waste of money and human potential that could much more effectively dealt with as a medical issue. Period.
posted by crowman at 2:14 PM on February 9, 2007


You are the only one here who thinks that, crowman.

Happy 100th everyone! Meth for all my friends.
posted by Mister_A at 2:36 PM on February 9, 2007


I thought the fact that we all had to go to the counter like good Orwellian citizens to sign up for our monthly nasal decongestant ration was supposed to cut this sort of crap out. You mean, it didn't cut this sort of crap out? Color me...shocked.

Also, can someone please tell me what sort of hotel room aparatus pot traffickers might have inadvertantly left their stash in (besides the obvious) -- my stash has been dry for months.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:39 PM on February 9, 2007


You are the only one here who thinks that, crowman.

I thought it was clear I was being facetious. Lock them all the hell up and throw away the key. And stay the hell off lawn. It's booby-trapped.
posted by crowman at 2:59 PM on February 9, 2007


"I know enough now that whenever I go to a hotel, regardless of how nice it is, I'll never use a coffee pot," said Marshall County District Attorney Steve Marshall.

Uh, right, meth cooks are going to be staying at say, the downtown Hilton, and cooking in the room.

By that quote alone I call instant urban legend.

Just more scare noises from a pipsqueak DA.

Also, check this psyweb article out for perspective.

Reminds me, I gotta see again that cool movie that came out a few years ago, "Cookers".
posted by telstar at 3:14 PM on February 9, 2007


If it was that easy to brew meth, why is the government always trying to scare us with stories of big, bad meth-labs going boom next to the local orphanage?
posted by bardic at 3:39 PM on February 9, 2007


"So are they regularly checking into hotels and using the room's coffee pot to do it,"

yeah.

Keep in mind that these meth heads aren't checking into the Four Seasons or Westin hotels, guys. They're doing this kind of crap in the $30/night ghetto motels in crappy parts of town.

You know the kind of hotel - you're lucky if there even IS a maid or any sort of housekeeping service at all.

It's certainly not an urban legend, but then again it's certainly not a widespread epidemic either. Yes, it happens. Tweakers (or whatever you want to call them) aren't always the cleanest people on the block.

I think the article should be filed under "Dumb shit that people making drugs do sometimes."
posted by drstein at 4:04 PM on February 9, 2007


But isn't it cheaper to buy a coffee maker for less than 30 bucks?
posted by bardic at 4:15 PM on February 9, 2007


If it was that easy to brew meth, why is the government always trying to scare us with stories of big, bad meth-labs going boom next to the local orphanage?

As with pretty much everything, follow the money. A lot of people make their money off the"War on Drugs". Cops, lawyers, jails, jail builders, jail owners, jail suppliers, yada, yada, yada.

We face such a mind-blowing shitstorm of stupid shit done in "our names" and for "our safety", we can't even see how crooked things are most of the time. This is not, and has never been, about the public safety. It's all about the money.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 4:25 PM on February 9, 2007


if you live at the welfare motel, that's where you will make your crank.

high level manufacturers wouldn't do that; high level dealers make deals in nice hotels all the time, but they certainly wouldn't do something as dumb as making the drugs themselves there.

of course, thanks to our crackdown on precursors, most meth now comes from Mexico-- so their kids have to worry about exploding meth labs and the environmental hazards and ours can just stick with their addictions.
posted by Maias at 4:33 PM on February 9, 2007


I would never fly in a plane, because several have crashed and killed people.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:34 PM on February 9, 2007 [2 favorites]


Delmoi, reality does not dictate word usage in some circles.

As with pretty much everything, follow the money. A lot of people make their money off the"War on Drugs". Cops, lawyers, jails, jail builders, jail owners, jail suppliers, yada, yada, yada.

So far you've described the taxpayer. A very weak conspiracy theory. I would say that society outlaws drugs because we are afraid of them, for better or worse, and for different reasons. I support the ban on meth because it is a marketing problem of addiction, and lazy fair capitalism only helps marketing.
posted by Brian B. at 6:00 PM on February 9, 2007


I would never ride the snake on a plane.
posted by gorgor_balabala at 6:01 PM on February 9, 2007


I would say that society outlaws drugs because we are afraid of them, for better or worse, and for different reasons.

Yes, but why are we afraid of them? The vast majority of illegal drug users are of harm to no one but themselves. Given a cheap, reliable, legal supply they would keep to themselves.

We aren't scared of drugs, we are scared of the societal problems that arise because drugs are illegal. As long as two dollars worth of chemicals cost fifty, or a hundred, or a thousand dollars - which they do only because of black market economics - then the public has to worry about users harming their person or taking their property.

So, the government and their civilian benefactors, happily sell us our fear. Both the good guys and the bad guys are happy.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:28 PM on February 9, 2007


> Keurig K-Cup Brewer
No measuring, no grinding and no mess with K-Cups

Interestingly, the Keurig brewers don't use a pot or a hot plate, so these would actually be risk free...

And increasingly interesting, a Keurig brewer can soon be found at a hotel near you.
posted by deCadmus at 7:51 PM on February 9, 2007


Yes, but why are we afraid of them? The vast majority of illegal drug users are of harm to no one but themselves. Given a cheap, reliable, legal supply they would keep to themselves.

This is such absurd nonsense that I don't know where to begin. Perhaps you are making your assumptions given the status quo, which is a fallacy. Regardless, an addictive substance that impoverishes the health and finances of its victims will ruin any economy that willfully ignores it. Meth, like all drugs, started from zero and got where it did not because people maximize their utility. Furthermore, addicts become criminals not only to pay for their addiction, but because they lose their minds and health, and so it creates a huge public problem while the drug suppliers prosper.

The libertarian lie about almost everything is that the Machiavellian libertarians desperately want most people to die off or become enslaved (because of a deep inferiority complex) while the naive libertarians (in denial about the world being complex and predatory) do their bidding by making nonsense economic arguments as if drugs were apples. This is why it is a religion, because the working definition is for the latter is that it has willing dupes who sincerely proselyte for the con.
posted by Brian B. at 8:16 PM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


Why does your analysis not also apply to cigarettes, Brian? It is certainly an addictive substance that impoverishes the heal and finances of its victims. And yet it has been legal for centuries.
posted by Justinian at 8:25 PM on February 9, 2007


Justinian, addiction is not a fixed constant here. There are degrees of it, and degrees of decline and impoverishment. Regardless, cigarettes are regulated and taxed accordingly and that follows my thinking.
posted by Brian B. at 8:34 PM on February 9, 2007


"The vast majority of illegal drug users are of harm to no one but themselves"

I don't know about that. Potheads seem to keep to themselves for the most part. But the meth addicts? Yikes.

Get back to us when you've spent some time in a hospital with a person that's been addicted to meth. I have the feeling that you might see things just a liiiiiiittle bit differently. At least I'd hope that you would.
I did a niiiice long medical transport with a patient that was a meth addict. After seeing what it does to people, I'd hope that you would never even dream of touching the stuff.

It's pretty sad.
posted by drstein at 8:40 PM on February 9, 2007


Good, then lets regulate and tax methamphetamine. I'm glad we are in agreement.
posted by Justinian at 8:41 PM on February 9, 2007


Good, then lets regulate and tax methamphetamine. I'm glad we are in agreement.

Having debated fundamentalists before, I assume that you might be unable to see the difference between two different expressions of the same phenomenon. I take that risk everytime. That is why people are fundies after all, and is precisely what common sense is not.
posted by Brian B. at 8:59 PM on February 9, 2007


And the hotel staff said that the fire alarm, at an ungodly 2 a.m., was due to guests microwaving brownies in their hotel room.

Brownies with hash in them, probably.
posted by bad grammar at 9:02 PM on February 9, 2007


Make it all legal, I says. Except for angel dust, Because everybody who does angel dust seems to kill their roommate, eat their roommates lungs, and then wander around in a naked, bloody psychotic haze for several hours.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:12 PM on February 9, 2007


Well that's it. Time to ban coffee pots. I was angry at first about my precious NyQuil being ruined but clearly the watering-down of allergy meds has made a major dent in the meth epidemic, so it is now time for you coffee drinkers to do your part. Suck it up, chumps. It's good for America.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 9:20 PM on February 9, 2007


Perhaps you are making your assumptions given the status quo, which is a fallacy. Regardless, an addictive substance that impoverishes the health and finances of its victims will ruin any economy that willfully ignores it.

First, I am many things- but definitely not a libertarian.

And you are making assumptions. First, not all drug users are abusers. Most people experiment and lose interest. Many, many studies have come to the conclusion that addiction rates do not increase or decrease based on the legality of the drug in question.

Second, the only reason that meth, in particular, is a scourge is because people will design ways to alter their consciousness anyway they can. If the medical community and/or government won't propose a reasonable way, people will propose an idiotic way.

People will do drugs; altering one's attitude is part of the human animal's condition. It has always been thus- you can just say "no" and incarcerate everybody until the cows come home, but people will still self-medicate.

I say it's stupid to keep throwing good money down the drain. Take the profit - for dealers and governments- and violence out the equation. Then there will be much more money to use for the public good, including medical help for people with drug dependecies.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 9:22 PM on February 9, 2007


BTW, even though I don't have the numbers, my guess is when you figure all of the costs ( for law enforcement, investigation, interdictment, prosecution, incarceration, supervision,etc.) involved, our "War on Drugs" is quite probably the single biggest expense our government shoulders.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 9:31 PM on February 9, 2007


Many, many studies have come to the conclusion that addiction rates do not increase or decrease based on the legality of the drug in question.

Let me hazard a guess, an addiction/decriminalization study in a country where treatment on demand is a free option. By the way, we're entitled to make assumptions, just not incorrect ones.
posted by Brian B. at 9:47 PM on February 9, 2007


BTW, even though I don't have the numbers, my guess is when you figure all of the costs ( for law enforcement, investigation, interdictment, prosecution, incarceration, supervision,etc.) involved, our "War on Drugs" is quite probably the single biggest expense our government shoulders.

That doesn't make it the drugwar wrong by any stretch. If it prevents the economy from collapsing from drug addiction, so be it. If the drug isn't addictive, then it's a waste.
posted by Brian B. at 9:51 PM on February 9, 2007


Brian B. : "Regardless, an addictive substance that impoverishes the health and finances of its victims will ruin any economy that willfully ignores it."

Are you talking "impoverish" in the sense of "due to lack of ability to do work", or "impoverish" in the sense of "the drugs cost so much money"? Because if it's the former, then, well, we should probably be cracking down on World of Warcraft, too, and if the latter, the whole reason that it costs so much is because it's illegal.

I'm not saying meth should be legalised. From what I understand, it's one of those mid-line dangerous drugs: some people use it and never get addicted, and don't have problems due to it, while others get massively addicted and fucked up. It falls somewhere between crack (I don't think I've ever heard of someone recreationally using crack without it fucking up their lives) and pot (where the vast, vast majority of users' lives aren't negatively affected at all). So "dangerously likely to affect your mental health", check. "dangerously likely to affect your physical health", check. But the "financial impoverishment" and "addictive" parts don't seem like compelling arguments.
posted by Bugbread at 10:10 PM on February 9, 2007


Hope has been hard to come by in treating meth addiction. Research has revealed addiction to the drug as particularly difficult to conquer.

And unlike similar stimulants, such as cocaine, meth affects the brain physiology in ways that may not be reversible.

Cocaine acts to stimulate the flow of dopamine (the chemical that helps create the drug “high”) from neurons to receptors in the brain. As the drug wears off, the dopamine is recycled back to the neurons where it becomes available for later use.

Research has shown that over time meth damages neurons and eventually inhibits the release of dopamine.

In one study, researchers led by Dr. Nora D. Volkow Brookhaven National Laboratory in Upton, N.Y., used PET scans (positron emission tomography) to check dopamine transporter levels in the brain. The study concluded that the level of these chemical messengers, which are related to movement control as well as pleasure, was 24 percent lower in meth users than among a control group.

Volkow and colleagues also used PET scans to measure glucose metabolism, a marker for brain damage and neurodegenerative disease. They found that meth users exhibited an elevated level of glucose metabolism, especially in parts of the brain that control sensation and spatial perception

The symptoms show up in recovery patients as depression and a greatly reduced ability to experience even the simplest of pleasures.

Dome said this might help explain the high relapse rate, usually after about six months, in even the most promising clients.

posted by Brian B. at 10:30 PM on February 9, 2007


This is a philosophical difference; I don't consider that meth can be REALLY bad for you to be grounds for making it illegal. People still get addicted to it and it still destroys their lives. It's not like keeping it illegal stops that from happening; it just increases the societal costs by putting huge swathes of the population in jail.
posted by Justinian at 11:40 PM on February 9, 2007


Justinian: "This is a philosophical difference; I don't consider that meth can be REALLY bad for you to be grounds for making it illegal."

I don't consider it to be grounds for making use illegal. However, I'm perfectly happy for manufacture, distribution and sale of certain drugs to remain so.

Otherwise, we might just as well close down the FDA and let the laetrile clinics run riot.

I would legalize sale of the milder forms though. Weed, opium, coca leaf, etc. as a public health measure. Using economic incentives to encourage less harmful use seems eminently sensible.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:43 AM on February 10, 2007




Jimmy Tango
posted by phaedon at 12:26 PM on February 10, 2007



Meth addiction is no harder to kick than any other addiction if you actually look at the research literature, not the propaganda put out by police, foster care agencies and addiction "experts" in the community.

A high relapse rate is common to *all* addictions, whether they be to to tobacco, alcohol, or meth.

Also, finding depression in addicts doesn't mean that drugs caused depression-- a lot of addicts use drugs in an attempt to *treat* depression, so it's hardly surprising that when you take away their "antidepressant" they get more depressed.
posted by Maias at 12:54 PM on February 10, 2007


Meth addiction is no harder to kick than any other addiction if you actually look at the research literature, not the propaganda put out by police, foster care agencies and addiction "experts" in the community.


Like this one?

posted by Brian B. at 1:03 PM on February 10, 2007


Brian B. : "Like this one?"

I'm not saying this as agreement or disagreement, but can you link to a specific page? It's hard for me to read the whole thing (I have to read from my cell phone, since the site is blocked on the company network), but the abstract doesn't mention how difficult it is to kick the addiction, just how quickly the addiction starts.
posted by Bugbread at 5:53 PM on February 10, 2007


Bugbread, I don't see a link, but the two concepts are related. If one addiction is faster than the other, the body is more prone to it, and harder to treat.
posted by Brian B. at 6:47 PM on February 10, 2007


I'm not a doctor, so I'm talking completely out of my ass here, but: it seems likely that there's a high degree of correspondence between the ease of getting addicted to a substance and the difficulty of quitting that substance, but I don't see any reason why it would be be true for all substances. Like, there's a high correspondence between playing basketball and spraining your ankle, but it's not necessarily true for all cases (for example, wheelchair basketball). So it's possible that meth addiction is the wheelchair basketball of drugs. I'm open to any independent research articles that address ease of quitting, but the one you linked to is just a research article about ease of addiction, and any assumptions I'd make that it's easy or hard to quit would be no more than blind stabs in the dark.
posted by Bugbread at 11:05 PM on February 10, 2007


bugbread, I didn't make any claim, it was a counter-example. You should complain to Maias
posted by Brian B. at 11:10 PM on February 10, 2007


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