Badges, Strippers, and Handjobs
February 10, 2007 2:50 PM   Subscribe

 
We live in a surrealist society.
posted by ScotchLynx at 2:56 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Captain Cream? Hmm. All I know is that I could never be a cop, that job is way too HARD!
posted by snsranch at 2:58 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


That cop would make a bad lieutenant.
posted by breezeway at 3:01 PM on February 10, 2007 [5 favorites]


Former police officer, I think.
posted by delmoi at 3:03 PM on February 10, 2007


Coming on to her.

Coming onto her.

What a difference a space makes.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:05 PM on February 10, 2007 [3 favorites]


What does a cop in Irvine have to do to get in trouble..? Wow.
posted by WhipSmart at 3:07 PM on February 10, 2007


Warning: Incredibly tasteless joke ahead.

Come on! That just sucks!
posted by cerebus19 at 3:07 PM on February 10, 2007


Well, I for one don't think he should have gotten off.
posted by graventy at 3:08 PM on February 10, 2007 [16 favorites]


Unfucking believable. Mother fucking jury lets him off because strippers "ask for it"? What is this, 1890? FUCK.
posted by stray at 3:09 PM on February 10, 2007 [4 favorites]


Cops protect us from dangerous people like Negroes and Muslims. Strippers are whores and so (like Negroes, who descend from Ham, and Muslims, who pray to the wrong God) they aren't real people, so so what if a cop has a little fun with them? This is no worse than spraying black demonstrators with a hose, just, uh, retail rather than wholesale.
posted by orthogonality at 3:10 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


The terrible, terrible writing in that story is almost as offensive as the story itself.
posted by psmealey at 3:10 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


he sure got off easy!
posted by CameraObscura at 3:11 PM on February 10, 2007 [4 favorites]


I don't know, I think his lawyer displayed a lot of spunk.
posted by kgasmart at 3:12 PM on February 10, 2007 [5 favorites]


*grabs popcorn, waits for offended people to show up*
posted by pyramid termite at 3:13 PM on February 10, 2007


i'm offended were do i sign in?
posted by nola at 3:16 PM on February 10, 2007


Shaddi prosecution
posted by kuujjuarapik at 3:16 PM on February 10, 2007


It's hard to be a cop.
posted by adamrice at 3:16 PM on February 10, 2007


Now, really, who hasn't had a cop ejaculate on them at some point or another?
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:17 PM on February 10, 2007 [7 favorites]


Oh, Come on!
posted by The Bellman at 3:18 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


Now, really, who hasn't had a cop ejaculate on them at some point or another?

j edgar hoover ... um ... hmmmph ... good question
posted by pyramid termite at 3:20 PM on February 10, 2007


This is why I don't miss Orange County, California. Home of Trinity Broadcasting Network, Robert Schuller, too many goddamn hideously bad cops and more ignorant scared stupid white people than you can shake a fucking stick at.

NO FEAR!
posted by loquacious at 3:21 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Holy crap. First a (Canadian?) breast cancer agency refuses a donation from a group of strippers exotic dancers, and now this?
posted by porpoise at 3:22 PM on February 10, 2007


What's this country coming to... we just sit down and take it as we get stripped of our rights.
posted by phrontist at 3:27 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Boy, he really ejaculated semen from his erect penis all over her.
posted by kbanas at 3:31 PM on February 10, 2007 [12 favorites]


Obviously, this was the perp
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:34 PM on February 10, 2007


Wow, that's a lot of puns. I must have accidentally included a "please do not take this seriously" vibe with my post.
posted by tehloki at 3:39 PM on February 10, 2007


Cops who abuse their wives rarely pay the price.

Police officer indicted for stalking and another for cyber stalking.
posted by nickyskye at 3:40 PM on February 10, 2007


That's... fucked up. What more can be said?
posted by brundlefly at 3:42 PM on February 10, 2007


Stop! Or I'll Shoot!
posted by stenseng at 3:42 PM on February 10, 2007 [3 favorites]


$400,000 for a handjob? I wish my guidance counselor had mentioned this as a possible career path.
posted by ryanissuper at 3:43 PM on February 10, 2007


She got $400,000 for one hand job, was snorting coke, had no license and just got fired?
Tell me again, who is the victim?
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
posted by MapGuy at 3:45 PM on February 10, 2007


i'm in ur badge, spunkin on ur strippers
posted by papakwanz at 3:45 PM on February 10, 2007


Wow, that's a lot of puns. I must have accidentally included a "please do not take this seriously" vibe with my post.

Actually, tehloki, what you included was an "oh my God, my country is so hideously fucked up that I can't even think about it without wanting to kill myself . . . so . . . . joke!" vibe.
posted by The Bellman at 3:46 PM on February 10, 2007


Wow, what an incredibly depressing bunch of comments.
posted by moss at 3:48 PM on February 10, 2007


Cop blows spunk on girl. Ready to kill cop.
posted by nj_subgenius at 3:53 PM on February 10, 2007


I find it total bullshit that her job qualifies her for second-class citizen status. Like the snickering over the Catherine Wood case in NYC. that cop needs gelding.
posted by Busithoth at 3:57 PM on February 10, 2007 [3 favorites]


MapGuy: "She got $400,000 for one hand job, was snorting coke, had no license and just got fired? Tell me again, who is the victim? Don’t hate the player, hate the game."

Good god, you're a dense motherfucker.
posted by koeselitz at 3:59 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


So did they pay her $400,000? The article is really unclear. Was that pay-out to prevent her from taking it to civil court independent of the outcome of this criminal case?

Not that her getting the cash makes this cop getting off any better. I'll be the first to admit that I don't like judging someone based on an article, but if the evidence that was reported (Officer had recently looked up many other dancers at the club, turned off his GPS, waited till she was outside his jurisdiction to pull her over, had tried to contact her by phone, etc.) It seems like a pretty straightforward stalking case followed up with a sexual assault to me. If the whole of the defense rested on 'she was a stripper' then this is complete bullshit.

Like I said, I wasn't there, I didn't hear all the evidence, but unless there is substantially more evidence in his defense that wasn't reported, I don't know how he could have gotten off.

[yeah, yeah. I said 'gotten off', insert your dirty joke here]

[yeah, yeah, I said 'insert your dirty ...' feel free to make bad jokes out of it]

[yeah, yeah. I said 'feel free'. You know what? You guys have some sick minds.]

posted by quin at 4:01 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


Look, he had a good lawyer and people are dumb. You could convince a jury of otherwise relatively smart people that you were justified in shooting a toddler if you had a good enough lawyer. At least the freak isn't a cop anymore and everyone knows what a perv he is even if he isn't getting jail time over it.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 4:01 PM on February 10, 2007


The jury and the cop are scum. That offended enough for ya?
posted by 2sheets at 4:04 PM on February 10, 2007


You could convince a jury of otherwise relatively smart people that you were justified in shooting a toddler if you had a good enough lawyer

Link please? My neighbors kids routinely annoy the hell out of me at absurdly early hours on the weekends, and I'd like to have all my ducks in a row.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:10 PM on February 10, 2007 [4 favorites]


yyyyep!
posted by tehloki at 4:10 PM on February 10, 2007


I find it total bullshit that her job qualifies her for second-class citizen status.

Well, in this case specifically I'm thinking her lack of a valid license - a longstanding problem, or so the article makes it seem - and the fact that she got canned from her job for, in part, indulging in coke while ON the job were probably big factors in the verdict; or at least they made the defense lawyer's job immeasurably easier in terms of portraying her as unreliable.
posted by kgasmart at 4:13 PM on February 10, 2007


You could convince a jury of otherwise relatively smart people that you were justified in shooting a toddler if you had a good enough lawyer. At least the freak isn't a cop anymore and everyone knows what a perv he is even if he isn't getting jail time over it.

No you couldn't. You can just convince a bunch of seemingly smart people who are actually chock-full of baseless run-of-the-mill stereotypes, especially those that pertain to sex (and especially in America). It has nothing to do with evil lawyers and everything to do with the strange American practice of sexualizing absolutely fuckin' everything and then demonizing the practice in the same breath. America is full of people that cry when they masturbate.

Or, for anyone that's seen Carnivale, America is the equivalent of Brother Justin secretly watching his sister undress and then flagellating himself until he bleeds.
posted by The God Complex at 4:15 PM on February 10, 2007


Koeselitz: So you want to call me a motherfucker? That is not nice… OK I’ll play your game.
You know what's hot?
Your mom in bed.

Since none of us sat through nine days to testimony I would say its fair to say one poorly written article is insufficient information to base a well founded opinion on. Yes, I bet copper was stalking, I bet bunny with a nose full of toot thought at the time a hand job instead of an escalation of a crappy night was probably not a bad deal. But upon reflection thought hey, “I was a vic.” And yes in a very real sense she was, but complicity was probably what got that sorry old badger off. My question is did she retire or upgrade her habits with 400k of the taxpayers money? As for second class, let me leave some drug shit in my car drive around without a license and see where I get to spend the night. Oh, I guess I could wait for the cop to offer to let me off for a hand job, or should I just offer and hope I don’t get a good LAPD beat down.

Now go find me a stripper high on coke without a license who won’t give a cop a four hundred thousand dollar hand job.
posted by MapGuy at 4:16 PM on February 10, 2007


This is such a weird case. It seems pretty apparent that this guy was fixated upon the strippers and resorted to stalking them.

But then the woman gets put through the wringer because of her occupation, regardless of all the points that point to this cop's mental instability.

This was a sexual abuse case and the victim got her name dragged through the mud. We're living in the 19th century, apparently.
posted by cmgonzalez at 4:25 PM on February 10, 2007


When I first saw this post, I thought the user who posted it was tekkoki (which is Japanese for handjob) and thought how eponysterical it was - oh well...
posted by birdsquared at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2007


MapGuy, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that a a civil case and a criminal case are the same thing. They're not. The $400,000 didn't come from the police officer--it came from the police department/city which was afraid that A) they'd look like a bunch of thugs in the media for two years and B) they'd end up losing something in the seven figures.
posted by The God Complex at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2007


Maybe it was, you know, "his thing" or something.
posted by basicchannel at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2007


If only she was a celebrity or professional athlete... then this never would have happened.
posted by peeedro at 4:33 PM on February 10, 2007



The problem is that there's reasonable doubt here: both parties have "issues" that cloud their credibility. the way the justice system works is that if this is the case, the defendant gets the benefit of the doubt.

Civil cases have a lower standard of proof ("preponderance of the evidence" I believe though IANAL); that's why they settled.
posted by Maias at 4:35 PM on February 10, 2007


Dear God: No I am good on that point, thanks. I watched OJ and Wapner, no really, I'm all set.
Personally I think the whole thing is just sick. I also think it may be hard for some people to grasp the sociological implications of complicity, which I would guess, probably led to or played a substantial role in a NG in the criminal case. Also, I was pointing out the irony (which I am told Americans don’t seem to get), that this “second class citizen” “sex worker” ended up with a 400k pay day for one hand job, when any one of us would have been in jail for the same traffic stop. Again, don’t hate the player, hate the game.
posted by MapGuy at 4:39 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Don’t hate the player, hate the game"

That is such utter bullshit and I for one am sick of hearing the phrase.

It's like the gun thing. "Guns don't kill. People do." Granted, if the guns weren't there, people would use something else to kill one another. It's just that a device which fires small projectiles at great speeds tends to simplify the killing thing a great deal.

The players perpetuate the game. If people would stop playing a given particular game of utter stupidity, the game would cease to be. So I'll continue to hate both the players AND the game, thank you so very fucking much.
posted by ZachsMind at 4:41 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: full of people that cry when they masturbate.

I'm so late to the MetaFilter tags, I feel left out.
posted by abulafa at 4:46 PM on February 10, 2007


You know, the only instance I've heard about of cops getting in trouble for something they did in uniform since the mid-90s, was related to the Abner Loueema case. So apparently before a cop gets in serious trouble in the USA he must either have taken part in or been complicit to the forced sodomization of a handcuffed man with a broken toilet plunger until the victim suffered serious internal injuries. *while the vic was known to be in police custody*.

I think that's a little scary. Meanwhile there seems to be no shortage of instances where police kill innocent people without so much as a serious apology being issued. In certain special cases some asshole politician will join in the fun and (illegally?) unseal juvenile records so he can smear the now-dead victim in order to excuse his thugs in blue.

Oh, and indeed FUCK GIULIANI.
posted by clevershark at 4:56 PM on February 10, 2007


Well, at least he didn't threaten to have her deported.

(Them there OC cops got some issues...)
posted by miss lynnster at 4:59 PM on February 10, 2007


Yes, I bet copper was stalking, I bet bunny with a nose full of toot thought at the time a hand job instead of an escalation of a crappy night was probably not a bad deal. But upon reflection thought hey, “I was a vic.” And yes in a very real sense she was, but complicity was probably what got that sorry old badger off.

Copper? Bunny with a nose full of toot? Sorry old badger? Are you...a visitor from the past?
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 5:02 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


PRB, seemed to me he was trying to channel Mickey Spillane or something...
posted by miss lynnster at 5:05 PM on February 10, 2007


Ok, so no one sees any problem with taxpayers giving $400k to a hooker because the shithead they hired to protect them could not keep his dick zipped up?
posted by c13 at 5:07 PM on February 10, 2007


miss lynnster--The Erection Set, indeed!
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 5:15 PM on February 10, 2007


Ding Ding Ding bunny gets the square.
posted by MapGuy at 5:16 PM on February 10, 2007


When he was found not guilty, he briefly embraced Stokke.

And Strokked him!
posted by ericb at 5:18 PM on February 10, 2007


Depends on what part you're asking us to object to, c13. The bit with the shithead and his dick? That's a big problem. The bit where the victim gets some compensation? That's justice.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:19 PM on February 10, 2007


Ok, so no one sees any problem with taxpayers giving $400k to a hooker because the shithead they hired to protect them could not keep his dick zipped up?

Two things: one, she was a stripper, not a hooker. Two very different things, especially considering that one is a perfectly legal profession. Two, say she wasn't a stripper; would it be okay then?
posted by chrominance at 5:25 PM on February 10, 2007


It's surprising to hear such a push to blame and vilify the victim of the assault here. Apparently the demographics of MeFi have changed recently.
posted by clevershark at 5:29 PM on February 10, 2007


No, the fact that the jury did not take into account the loss of money caused by the shithead. Being a stripper is a job. Its legal. Rubbing a pole between her legs is a part of this job. Why was this even brought up in court? What concerns me is that apparently the jurors think that jacking off on a suspect is consistent with cop's job description. More to the point, that the shithead got off, pun intended, and was not made to compensate for the loss of taxpayers money.
posted by c13 at 5:30 PM on February 10, 2007


On preview: chrominance, I hear you.
posted by c13 at 5:31 PM on February 10, 2007


More to the point, that the shithead got off, pun intended, and was not made to compensate for the loss of taxpayers money.

The money paid had nothing to do with a jury or the criminal trial.
posted by The God Complex at 5:38 PM on February 10, 2007


c13 : Ok, so no one sees any problem with taxpayers giving $400k to a hooker because the shithead they hired to protect them could not keep his dick zipped up?

Now she's a hooker? Funny, I didn't see that reported anywhere. Or do you mean she's now a hooker because she got paid $400 grand for a handjob? I'm confused.

Either way, stripper does not equal hooker.
posted by quin at 5:39 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


We live in a surrealist society.

No, we live in a misogynist society.

Read this section of the story and tell me this is something other than a jury fellating the police and putting the Bad Girl in her place:
Four months earlier, Park had stopped Lucy under similar circumstances. That time, he’d ignored a plastic drug baggie he’d found in her car and her suspended license. But the stop wasn’t a waste of time. After friendly chit-chat, the officer had scored Lucy’s phone number. Telephone records show that Park called the stripper the next morning. She told him she was too busy to meet.

On the witness stand, Park explained that he’d called Lucy out of concern for a citizen’s safety. He also shrugged his shoulders when Kamiabipour slowly listed the first names of nine Captain Cream female employees—Annette, Denise, Rashele, Marlia, Brandi, Andrea, Deborah, Laura and Shannon—whose license plates he’d run through the DMV computer in the weeks prior to his sexual encounter with Lucy. (Another coincidence, according to Stokke.) Jurors also learned that Irvine Police Sgt. Michael Hallinan had previously warned Park as they left work to stay away from the strippers.

Park, who works in construction nowadays, conceded that he’d been given the warning but claimed that he had no clue it was Lucy in the vehicle or that she had an invalid driver’s license, even as he approached her car window.
I mean, these aren't even clever lies. The guy is simply counting on the jury not caring, because he's a cop and she's a stripper. This is exactly the kind of jury that used to (and often still does) refuse to convict for rape if the victim is a Bad Girl of some kind.

Also, the Stupid is powerful in this thread.
posted by languagehat at 5:40 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


she got canned from her job for, in part, indulging in coke while ON the job were probably big factors in the verdict

Ok, dude, she was in a bathroom stall with another woman, they were doing drugs and fondling breasts. What red-blooded American male wouldn't give her a medal for that?
posted by thanotopsis at 5:47 PM on February 10, 2007


The demographics haven't changed its just that NASCAR hasn't started yet, no wait, shit, gotta go.
Oh, and some strippers are hookers, so maybe not so different. She didn't work at Dairy Cream. By shit head, were you talking about the girl with the shit up her nose or the cop? Its ok I know the answer. Yes, let's not vilify tit licking law breaking coke heads that get fired for conduct unbecoming a stripper. Besides, what exactly did they talk about for 19 min?
Not all cops are bad, and not all strippers are Mary F’n Poppins. Wouldn’t it be boring if we all agreed.

A better question is would you give a cop a hand job to stay out of jail and get 400k for the trouble. Would your girlfriend, your wife, mom. No really. Actually who cares? Boogiedie, boogiedie, boogiedie!!!!
posted by MapGuy at 5:51 PM on February 10, 2007


You're a fucking idiot.
posted by The God Complex at 5:55 PM on February 10, 2007


For all you guys getting hung up on the stripper/hooker thing... Er, living as I do in the Greater Los Angeles Area, I can say that the line between stripper/hooker is generally, shall we say, quite negotiable in many of the clubs in this area? That's not exactly a secret. Not my thing, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

But that doesn't matter. She could have been a homeless crack whore and it wouldn't matter. It's completely fucked up for a cop to stalk and molest anyone, regardless of their occupation.
posted by Justinian at 5:56 PM on February 10, 2007


Uh, I wish to formally disavow all of MapGuy's comments.
posted by Justinian at 5:57 PM on February 10, 2007


Justinian: I couldn't agree more.
posted by MapGuy at 5:59 PM on February 10, 2007


Ok, you guys are correct, a hooker is not the same thing as a stripper. I made a mistake, as I posted above.

MapGuy, I don't quite get what you're saying...
posted by c13 at 5:59 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Not just the stupid but the fratboy arrogance and ignorance is strong in this thread, too.

MapGuy, get bent, okay?
posted by jokeefe at 6:00 PM on February 10, 2007


Oh, and some strippers are hookers, so maybe not so different.

Some cops are porn stars, I kid you not.
posted by peeedro at 6:03 PM on February 10, 2007


What am I missing here?
Say your 17yr old daughter is pulled over for careless driving and she is afraid to face the consequences of that. She notices the cop leering and offers him a hand job. He accepts and she avoids a citation.
She gets home and has second thoughts and tells you. You march her butt down to the station and have the cop charged.
The eventual verdict is:
Both parties contributed. Case dismissed.
What is it I don't understand?
What made me think cops should be held to a higher standard?
posted by notreally at 6:06 PM on February 10, 2007


MapGuy writes "A better question is would you give a cop a hand job to stay out of jail and get 400k for the trouble. Would your girlfriend, your wife, mom. No really."

Well your mom gave head for free, so god knows what she'd do for $400,000.

Seriously, MapGuy, take your Haldol. And then go fuck yourself. With a big rubber dick. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.
posted by clevershark at 6:08 PM on February 10, 2007


I also wish to disavow MapGuy's agreement with me. Ugh, I'll go take a shower.
posted by Justinian at 6:11 PM on February 10, 2007


c13 have you ever heard the phrase "for the sake of argument?"
The whole thing is sick. Not even in a clevershark way, just sick.
Just ask yourself what you would do to stay out of jail. We can't fix the justice system, hell we weren’t even in the court room so commenting one way or the other is a bit well, like having a God complex. While I do include in my comments my honest view, a good deal of what I say is to drive dialogue in a Socratic way, pompous idiot that I am. Most people don't want to hear the truth. It makes them angry, uncomfortable. They would rather view the world in absolutes. If no one ever takes an opposing view here at MeFi we are all just a bunch of seagulls. Google seagull management.
Yes cops should. So should we.
posted by MapGuy at 6:13 PM on February 10, 2007


An organization paying out a large sum of cash in fines, reparations, whatever, is typical, simply because it is the only thing that can gain organizational attention. You can't put the entire police department (or, say, Monsanto) in a jail, you can't execute it, you can't even spank it. Wagging your finger in its collective face and saying "No no no" does not work. Slurping out some cash is the only thing that organizations notice. Well, unless you want to bring back the Roman practice of decimation.

Just as Jack the Ripper targeted prostitutes and Dahmer liked the marginalized club bois, this guy figured he could get away with it because she's a stripper. You know, a fallen woman. Trash is meant to be thrown away, and, well, nothing is harder to tarnish than a badge of authority. We've seen it time and again, they cannot be trusted to maintain order amongst their own people. Hence, the punishment is cash tranfusion.
posted by adipocere at 6:14 PM on February 10, 2007


Okay, so stripper gets sexually assaulted by a cop and cop goes free in California. But college girl gets dragged out of her car by a cop for being "mouthy" and cop gets fired. In Tennessee.

The world is all topsy-turvey.
posted by teleri025 at 6:20 PM on February 10, 2007


I'm with languagehat.

Misogyny is much more forgivable and accepted than racism at this time. I hope to live long enough to see them both at much lower levels.

I think we're getting there...it's just going to take a while.



By the way, the story says she was offered 400K, I get the impression she did not take it and instead went to trial. I appreciate that she did, so the crap of this case got exposed to more people. But I feel for her. Being a stripper or a prostitute is a very, very difficult way to make money and usually results in a ton of psychological damage. As a taxpayer I would have been very happy if she had gotten 400K for what happened AND it had been made public.
posted by django_z at 6:20 PM on February 10, 2007


notreally There's a big error in your analogy. The article makes no mention that "Lucy" offered to give this guy a handjob.

This woman is being persecuted in this thread as much as she was in court for her apparent position in life. She made some mistakes, but none of her mistakes made her deserve the harassment and humiliation she received at the hands of a man who was sworn to "serve and protect."

As languagehat stated above, this thread is filled with The Stupid. I'm going to go take a shower and try to forget that I call so many of you members of my community.
posted by terrapin at 6:21 PM on February 10, 2007


This is so weird--I didn't even think it was possible!

See, what's happened is that the comments box on youtube is somehow posting directly into this thread. Which means somewhere on youtube there is a Staind video with an insightful and thoughtful comment thread (long considered an impossibility)--the happy result of this scripting anomaly. The thoughtful comments (which I'm sure were left here regarding this outrage) have been posted over there.

I'm off to find it! Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas.
posted by maxwelton at 6:22 PM on February 10, 2007 [9 favorites]


What argument!? I'm not saying anything about the stripper at all. Cops are not supposed to jack off while on the job. Period. His hand job cost the city $400k. He should have been found guilty and made to pay the money back, at least some of it.
posted by c13 at 6:24 PM on February 10, 2007


mapguy: your last post actually nailed what is happening with your comments.

Yes, you are being a "pompous idiot" for trying to "drive dialogue in a Socratic way". It's okay to argue for the sake of argument, but you need to identify that you are doing that at the time or people will be pissed at you later on when you step aside from the wrath you have incurred and say "I was doing it in a Socractic way." Those are the words of pompous idiots (usually youngish pompous idiots in their late teens or 20s who have recently learned the "scoratic" defense but haven't experienced enough social shunning yet to understand how ineffective it is).

If you had opened with: here are my honest feelings...but i also think we should consider X for the sake of argument. Then you would have gotten a different response.
posted by django_z at 6:26 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Here's a question. What if I'm sitting at a busstop on a deserted stretch of road, and some twisted non-cop person intimidates me into giving him a hand job, and then ejaculates on me.

That would be sexual battery, wouldn't it?
What exactly is it that makes this story not sexual battery?
The woman's job?
The woman's moral character?
The man's job?

It might be that MapGuy is saying that because she would otherwise have been arrested, due to the coke and expired license, one might presume she agreed to it to avoid going to jail. If I thought the nutter at the busstop was going to do worse to me if I didn't jack him off, I'd agree to do it also. But in both cases, you have coercion, not consent. Ergo, a crime.
posted by Methylviolet at 6:27 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


notreally, I think you're missing the clause of statutory rape in your fantasy scenario.

there've been instances of young girls bring convinced to get into a patrol car during a traffic stop, and what happens to get out of the ticket happens. to make a blanket accusation against all cops because of this is ridiculous.

but so is villifying a dancer because the thought of her job gives you a chubby. deal with it, and think how happy you'd be if a cop shot a load onto your beloved. that she wasn't to you must be quite a consolation. wrap yourself tightly in it.

this guy's a predator, and I question whether his defender's would keep on with this denial when/if he actually physically hurts someone (like, say, when he can't rely on his shield to intimidate his victims?).

sad.
posted by Busithoth at 6:28 PM on February 10, 2007


So MapGuy, in which part where you saying the truth?

Please don't flatter yourself as seeing yourself as a Socratic devil's advocate. Yes, people do tend to view the world in absolutes, or a dualistic, 'madonna/whore' view - the same one that equates hooker with stripper. But that doesn't excuse people's tone in their comments, including your own.

The puerile comments in this thread are rather sad, too. Sad case all around. For those who feel that what the cop did wasn't a big deal, technically speaking the cop represents YOU, the taxpayer and citizen. Do you get special rules and get to abuse someone without their consent? Are we getting so backwards that I even have to not her profession has no bearing on this case?

That defence attorney - ugh, what a piece of gross scum as well. “She got what she wanted,” said Stokke. “She’s an overtly sexual person.” That man is a disgrace to every decent lawyer out there. Pathetic.
posted by rmm at 6:31 PM on February 10, 2007


C13 Didn't you call this young lady a hooker? That's just not nice, glad it wasn’t me. Glad I know the technical difference.
He wasn’t found guilty. Why? Just, why? Something smells fruitier than terrapin's shower jell. Given the verdict the only safe bet is that we don’t know the whole story. Every cop who ever whacked off on duty, or used his tag id system to check out a chick should be fired. Then we could all drive like idiots. Sorry if I got everyone’s panties in a twist, but I am missing the race.
And Justinian admit it your a hippie so you were going to take a shower today anyway. It's Saturday.
posted by MapGuy at 6:34 PM on February 10, 2007


Oh, fuck that. *joins offended group*
posted by liquorice at 6:38 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


The whole thing pisses me off, I have known a few strippers, (and hookers, and yes I differentiate between the two) and most of them are just working people doing what they do. This (ex)cop is a sexual predator and his lawyer needs a kick in the nuts for being such a bastard. A woman driving home alone late is in a very vulnerable position and being pulled over by a stalker with a gun who has all the power of the state must have been a horrible experience for her.
posted by Iron Rat at 6:40 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


"Sorry if I got everyone’s panties in a twist, but I am missing the race."

Christ, now he's tarnishing NASCAR fans by association.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:44 PM on February 10, 2007


Yes I did. And yes, to me the difference between a stripper and a hooker is purely academic. But that's just me. And yes, every cop that stalks people in order to blow a load should be fired. Every one of them. And replaces with a normal person. So that when we do drive like idiots, we get pulled over and punished according to the LAW, and to to some horny redneck's idea of the law. Are you really that far behind?
posted by c13 at 6:45 PM on February 10, 2007


Hooray, more outrage! The international pun cartel was foiled yet again.
posted by tehloki at 6:45 PM on February 10, 2007


I just want to make the point that this was not just some random guy, but a police officer. He should be held to a higher standard. As far as I'm concerned it is demeaning to all police officers when juries let cops like that off.
posted by Kattullus at 6:45 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm in a cynical mood tonight but tell me, is there ANYBODY in a position of authority that won't abuse their power?

This thing just makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry because it proves everything that I feared still existed in the Western world. Call me naive but I thought we'd made some advances. But no, I was wrong. God, I hate humanity.

/random outburst over
posted by liquorice at 6:46 PM on February 10, 2007


This woman is being persecuted in this thread as much as she was in court for her apparent position in life. She made some mistakes, but none of her mistakes made her deserve the harassment and humiliation she received at the hands of a man who was sworn to "serve and protect."

Well... sure. But....

I don't see where anyone's excusing the cop. And there's no excuse for what he did - it's harassment at best, assault at worst.

But we're copping (sorry) the attitude that:

A. We all know more than the jury that sat through the actual testimony.

B. She was merely a stripper. Innocent otherwise.

But, this particular cop had stopped her previously - no license, drug baggie in the car. And wouldn'cha know - she was STILL driving around without a license, and just bounced from her job due in part to drugs.

It strikes me that if this cop had never stopped her - and maybe she'd plowed into the back of another vehicle all coked up, no license - this thread might be discussing what an idiot she was, rather than how unfortunate she was. Well, she WAS unfortunate, it certainly seems like she WAS harassed/assaulted, and no one "deserves" that, regardless.

But I suspect this cop knew he had an unfortunate on his hands, and that's why he decided to harass her in the first place.
posted by kgasmart at 6:52 PM on February 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Thanks DJ
Oh the truth part, that this is all just sick, and the possibility of complicity driving the verdict.
Cop doing nasty things, sick
Strippers on coke doing nasty things, sick.
Odd verdicts for what seems obvious, sick.
A stripper getting 400k for a hand job, sick (ironic, funny, but still sick).
Talking shit about my mom, sick.
If you tell people that you are going to provoke them they usually refuse to be provoked, in my experience. Getting people pissed off enough to engage in dialogue that is about more than just oh she is such a victim. Maybe she was, maybe there was complicity on her part. That is the only reason I can imagine that verdict went the way it did.
If you guys will show me how to put things in italics or what ever, I will make the snarky part different.
In any event the idea that idea that you guys are really pissed and venting instead of the lamo fratboy, hippie comments at the top, is what should be going on here. You should be enraged, but besides lobbing nasty words at me, what have you done, or will you do about it. Even if I am the idiot. Does anyone know who is winning the race?
posted by MapGuy at 6:54 PM on February 10, 2007


Duuude....
posted by c13 at 7:01 PM on February 10, 2007


this cop knew he had an unfortunate on his hands

I've never heard it called that before
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:01 PM on February 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


MapGuy = Troll. IMO.
posted by delmoi at 7:01 PM on February 10, 2007


PDNFTT
Stewart won, jerk.
posted by MapGuy at 7:06 PM on February 10, 2007


Wow, he got off twice!
posted by tastybrains at 7:09 PM on February 10, 2007


In any event the idea that idea that you guys are really pissed and venting instead of the lamo fratboy, hippie comments at the top, is what should be going on here. You should be enraged, but besides lobbing nasty words at me, what have you done, or will you do about it. Even if I am the idiot. Does anyone know who is winning the race?

bartender! ... i want TWO of what he's got!!
posted by pyramid termite at 7:15 PM on February 10, 2007


Outside the courtroom, surrounded by his family, a smiling Park said he felt vindicated.

What. the. hell?!

defense attorney Al Stokke argued that Park wasn’t responsible for making sticky all over the woman’s sweater. He insisted that she made the married patrolman make the mess—after all, she was on her way home from work as a dancer at Captain Cream Cabaret.

Please tell me this guy doesn't have kids, especially a girl. He seem to have a face, just a mask as he waits for easy marks.

That article was really low on details. Why isn't he a cop anymore? Did the woman take the money? What happened in their first phone call?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:24 PM on February 10, 2007


Some cops are porn stars, I kid you not.

Indeed.

Don't click the link MapGuy, it'll probably make your brain implode and you'll end up having to sit on one of those inflatable dough nuts.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:35 PM on February 10, 2007


Thanks, I was going to but now I am just going to go to bed with my stripper girlfriend. Besides, I have to get up early tomorrow for patrol. Ya'll drive safely now, ya hear.
posted by MapGuy at 7:40 PM on February 10, 2007


Yeah. And make sure to wear a bib.
posted by c13 at 7:45 PM on February 10, 2007


Ah, here's another article. Interesting how the writing changes the tone of the story. He was fired. She did sue for and win the $400,000. Also her testimony wasn't straight, which helped the defense in attacking her as a character.

and here's story from when it first happened. It mentions that the woman was a stripper only about once a month and usually worked in sales. Her suspended license was for DUI. She went along with the assault for fear of being arrested. Originally the lawsuit was for $10 million.

One final article. Dude wants to be a cop again. Jesus wept.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:48 PM on February 10, 2007


Thank you Brandon Blatcher for the better context.
posted by peeedro at 9:17 PM on February 10, 2007


Threads like this are useful for identifying people you should completely ignore in the future.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:25 PM on February 10, 2007


Threads like this are useful for identifying people threads you should completely ignore in the future.

I hate it when MetaFilter becomes talkback radio.
posted by Ritchie at 10:27 PM on February 10, 2007


All the puns or double entendres at the top seem a little weird but I think a lot of it is "we laugh because it hurts" stuff.
posted by Iron Rat at 10:40 PM on February 10, 2007


I was just scanning the comments to see if that MeFite who always can be counted on to mount an ardent defense of law enforcement has chimed in here ... but I didn't see her ... anybody remember who I am talking about (I forget her name)? I wonder what she will say about this.
posted by jayder at 11:04 PM on February 10, 2007


Hey, Mapguy: you are without a doubt the worst fucking poster since - well, since I don't know when. You remind me of a fucking 19 year-old remedial sociology major who just had his first taste of coke. Shut the fuck up.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:44 AM on February 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


Most people don't want to hear the truth.

MapGuy is Jessep!
posted by languagehat at 6:41 AM on February 11, 2007


Here is an apparent quote from an alternate juror.

"I was an alternate juror on this case. I went into this trial with an open mind, but was quickly put off by the numerous, obvious lies told by the alleged victim. Additionally, the attitude and behavior of the district attorney was totally unprofessional...snickering and rolling her eyes at every opportunity possible. Show some professionalism. I am amazed that the county spent valuable time and resources on such a ridiculous case. This woman was looking for a big payday...and she found one that night. True, police officers should not engage in such activities, but really...does that entitle the alleged victim to hundreds of thousands of dollars? The Irvine Police Department as well as the district attorney's office should be embarrased by their overzealous prosecution of a man, who is guilty of being stupid. Nothing more, nothing less."

Guess I'll STFU now. [giggles]
posted by MapGuy at 8:25 AM on February 11, 2007


What does that quote (source, btw?) from the alternate juror 'prove', exactly?

Sorry, folks... I have to remember not to feed trolls, and that threads like this are useful for remembering who to ignore. I also hope it is a "we laugh because it hurts" response - I'm not so sure though...
posted by rmm at 9:11 AM on February 11, 2007


It is in the comments below one of Brandon's posts ocreg I think. Hence the "apparent" preface.
posted by MapGuy at 9:23 AM on February 11, 2007


Here is an apparent quote from an alternate moron.

This woman was looking for a big payday...and she found one that night. True, police officers should not engage in such activities, but really...does that entitle the alleged victim to hundreds of thousands of dollars?


WTF does any of this have to do with the criminal charges against the cop?

The fact that this imbecile happens to share your particular set of misogynistic prejudices, map guy, shouldn't surprise anybody.

Presumably, your mom did it with your dad, right? So she was no stranger to sex? Presumably, he gave her housekeeping, so she profited from the sex? Ergo, if your mom had been coerced into giving a cop a handjob, that would be just fine and dandy as well?

Or doesn't the Socratic method go that far?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:33 AM on February 11, 2007


: munches on popcorn :
posted by miss lynnster at 11:01 AM on February 11, 2007


Hey Peter, did you skip both logic and ethics classes and opt for thought Nazi 101 instead? Did you read any Sherlock Holmes? This is a puzzle that should have some logical thread.

The problem is, why was this guy found not guilty of criminal conduct when it sees so obvious? Seems strange, no? The answer seems to be that it was consensual. A jury of twelve did not find him guilty of a criminal act. Now how can that be? This person’s comment is quite relevant, if indeed he or she was an alternate juror, as it seems to shed some additional light on the subject, being as they apparently were in the court room. Were you?
Last time, who is the victim? First the truth, second your manners, third the conduct those who should uphold the law. The other point is that the whole thing is sick, your behavior not withstanding. How easily you are personally offended and drawn to the point of saying such vile things, shame on you.

: makes another gin and tonic, refills popcorn bowl :
posted by MapGuy at 11:31 AM on February 11, 2007


What happened in the jury room was probably the same as what is happening here -- coercion is a difficult concept for some people. Apparently some people believe that anything short of "Noooo! Help! No!" is "take me now."

They told Abner Loueema to pull down his pants and he did it. Therefore he consented, right?
posted by Methylviolet at 11:39 AM on February 11, 2007


MapGuy: A jury of twelve did not find him guilty of a criminal act. Now how can that be?

Maybe the glove did not fit, and so the jury felt it must acquit. Cuz juries are never swayed by anything other than the cold hard facts.

Yeah, I went there.
posted by oncogenesis at 12:22 PM on February 11, 2007


cold hard facts

Not so sure about anything being cold.

Yeah, I went there, too.
posted by ericb at 12:31 PM on February 11, 2007


"While I do include in my comments my honest view, a good deal of what I say is to drive dialogue in a Socratic way, pompous idiot that I am."

Christ, what are you, 14?
posted by klangklangston at 3:50 PM on February 11, 2007


"Christ, what are you, 14?"
Hey college boy wrong site for pedophiles, try facebook.
posted by MapGuy at 5:36 PM on February 11, 2007


Taking bets on whether MapGuy or BrianB. will flame out first...
posted by languagehat at 6:04 PM on February 11, 2007


My money is on Brian B. I think MapGuy is in it for the long haul.
posted by psmealey at 6:14 PM on February 11, 2007


Hey college boy wrong site for pedophiles, try facebook.

that's what i like about metafilter ... you get people with all sorts of different expert knowledge
posted by pyramid termite at 6:27 PM on February 11, 2007


Puns, misogyny, trolling, "Socratic" dialogue, godwin...Yes, I think we can officially declare this thread done.
posted by Hildegarde at 7:05 PM on February 11, 2007


"Hey college boy wrong site for pedophiles, try facebook."

Wait, are you telling me that if I'm looking for pedophiles, I should try facebook (because you, at 14, have found it fruitful)? Or are you implying that I'm a pedophile, because you're 14 and assume any interest is sexual interest, and telling me to make a facebook page so you can find me?

If only you weren't so damn "socratic"!
posted by klangklangston at 8:03 PM on February 11, 2007


I've been on this website for... a bit - and I can honestly say that MapGuy's meteoric rise to trollhood almost seems too perfect. He is certainly the most consistantly annoying poster I've ever witnessed - this all leads me to believe that he's a shill. A sockpuppet for p_p or someone else.

I can't prove any of this, but MapGuy - if you're reading this - please know that I think you are a retard and I hope your computer breaks.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:11 PM on February 11, 2007


that last part was kind of mean. i've been drinking.

please know that I think you are a retard detriment to the quality of the conversation here at Metafilter and I hope your computer breaks you decide to contribute in a more positive, community-minded fashion.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:16 PM on February 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


But the first paragraph was right on, Baby_Balrog.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:19 PM on February 11, 2007


God, I haven't laughed so hard since Grandma got her hand stuck in the meat grinder. Remember kids when you become emotive you loose the argument. See what happens when you start a thread with cops soiling strippers. Cue Carol Brunette. Sorry Klang was kind of cruel being before your time. Best of luck in you search for 14 year old boys to uhm… Socratize or what ever it is you hope to accomplish. By the way, is misogyny anything like a happy ending? “Mrs. Clackett: Noises off.”
posted by MapGuy at 5:20 AM on February 12, 2007


I miss September '06.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:39 AM on February 12, 2007


Instead of MapGuy's endless September?

"Sorry Klang was kind of cruel being before your time. Best of luck in you search for 14 year old boys to uhm… Socratize or what ever it is you hope to accomplish."

Be honest, you're an Eliza bot, aren't you?
posted by klangklangston at 6:20 AM on February 12, 2007


ahem... if the piano player would be so kind to strike up the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody...


Who is that asshole?
Why won't he go away?
Mocked by a troll
Who'll be here until judgement day.

Avert your eyes
Look up from the screen and see,
He's just a dumb troll, no need to vent your spleen
Because, see, like trolls come, trolls will go,
Don't let him harsh your mellow.
Everything the troll blows out of his asshole is gas,
Poo gas.

Admins, his ass will ban.
That's the fate of every troll
Once his schtick get's really old.
Users, there's no need to bait
the troll, he'll be annoying anyway.
Users, oooo,
He means to make you mad.
If MapGuy's back again this time tomorrow,
Carry on, carry on, 'cause he doesn't really matter.

Oh why am I still here?
Sends shivers down my spine,
Mind is aching all the time.
Goodbye everybody, I've got to go,
Gotta leave the troll behind and his doucheface
Users, oooo Everything the troll blows
There's no need to stay,
The scope of his lameitude is plain to all.

I see a little silhouetto of a troll,
klangklangston, klangklangston, will you start a call out thread?
Banhammers and flamewars very very painful me.
Baby_Balrog Baby_Balrog
Baby_Balrog Baby_Balrog
Baby_Balrog languagehat
Optimus Chyme yme yme yme yme
He's just a dumb troll and nobody likes him.
There is no need to reply with ferocity,
Spare us a thread from his monstrosity.
Trolls come, trolls go, will you let it go.
Bismillah! No! We will not let it go.
Let it go!
Bismillah! We will not let it go.
Let it go!
Bismillah! We will not let it go.
Let him go.
Will not let him go. Let him go.
Will not let him go. Let him go
Never never never never never never never let it go!
No no no no no no no
Oh for fuck's sake, oh for fuck's sake, oh for fuck's sake let it go!
mathowie has a hammer put aside for him, for him, for him!

So you think you can mock us and shit in this thread?
So you think you can trash it and leave it for dead?
Oh MapGuy. Can't do this to us, MapGuy.
Just gotta get out, just gotta get right outta here.

He doesn't really matter.
Anyone can see,
He doesn't really matter, he doesn't really matter to me.

Everything the troll blows...
posted by Kattullus at 1:32 PM on February 12, 2007 [9 favorites]


Brilliant, Kattullus. Absolutely and hysterically right on.
posted by leftcoastbob at 6:45 PM on February 13, 2007


Thank you, leftcoastbob.
posted by Kattullus at 1:09 PM on February 14, 2007


« Older Not everybody is an expert on everything   |   Putin's harsh criticism of U.S. Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments