"You get what you pay for." - Mercedes-Benz S-Class ad.

February 20, 2007 9:14 AM

Jet Blue Unveils its Image Revival/Damage Control Plan. The low-fare airline rolled out a customer bill of rights Tuesday that promises vouchers to fliers who experience delays in a move it hopes will win back passengers after an operational meltdown damaged its brand and stock price.
posted by wfc123 (41 comments total)

PepsiJet Blue

I heard this story on NPR this morning and I was appalled. It was basically a 5 minute long commercial for an airline. The "analyst" even said something like "they really are the best airline in existence" (this was after complimenting the NPR interviewess with a "young lady" comment). W.T.F.
posted by DU at 9:17 AM on February 20, 2007

Yeah I heard that same interview, and I also thought it was ridiculous. That should not have been run; it was obviously highly partisan.

I will never fly JetBlue; any company that would leave people stuck in the airplane, on the runway, for SIX HOURS without coming up with SOME method of getting them off will never get my money.

And I'm still wondering about the damn shill on NPR.
posted by Malor at 9:21 AM on February 20, 2007

I hope they survive this, we use them a lot and have always had good experiences. My wife was not thrilled with being stuck at JFK for 6 hours on Thursday, but we will give them a mulligan.
posted by lobstah at 9:22 AM on February 20, 2007

How much more low-fare can you get? I'm gonna start an airline where for twelve bucks I give you styrofoam wings to wear on your arms and directions to a high rise building you can jump from. I'm gonna call it GlideToVegas.Com! I'll make a fortune!
posted by ZachsMind at 9:23 AM on February 20, 2007

I will never fly JetBlue; any company that would leave people stuck in the airplane, on the runway, for SIX HOURS without coming up with SOME method of getting them off will never get my money.

I strongly suspect that every major airline has in fact done this. You may have to swim to overseas destinations.
posted by grobstein at 9:23 AM on February 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

I hope they survive this

JetBlue will survive just fine. People will be all self-righteous for a while (see Malor), but then when they're fishing around for the best price to San Juan for their fall vacation, they'll suddently remember that they love JetBlue.
posted by milarepa at 9:28 AM on February 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'd be surprised if they lose too much regular custom, they seem to have a lot of die hard customers. When I lived in the US and flew a couple of times a month, I adored Jet Blue, and flew them as often as I could persuade my booking people. I never had any problems, but the difference between their pleasant, capable staff and the embittered robots who work on the other airlines was nothing less than remarkable, and their new aeroplanes vs aging hulks too. The ability to use Long Beach instead of LAX was fantastic as well.
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:29 AM on February 20, 2007 [2 favorites]

to passengers kept waiting by the airline’s own misstakes.

Yikes.

My wife flew once on jetblue from Boston to NYC (or the reverse, I forget) and her flight was several hours late departing. None of the staff seemed particularly concerned, or even aware, of the delay. She was pissed and probably won't ever fly them again.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 9:32 AM on February 20, 2007

I think a lot depends on JetBlue's PR response. I was talking to my parents about this over the weekend, and the amount of vitriol my mom had for the airline made it seem like she'd been stuck out on the tarmac for 6 hours, herself (she hadn't).

As grobstein says, though, this happens to all the major airlines. Hell, it happened to American just two months ago, and those folks were stuck on the tarmac for 10 hours. I'd be more likely to fly JetBlue right now because they wouldn't dare risk a PR disaster by letting something like this happen again.
posted by gurple at 9:33 AM on February 20, 2007

How much more low-fare can you get?

How about £0.01?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:42 AM on February 20, 2007

As someone who spent most of a night, sitting in a plane on the tarmac (AFTER landing at destination!!!) I sympathize deeply. It was a disaster of a trip, due to weather (sadly, weather I'd have enjoyed had I not been moving. Most snow I saw in 6 years, living in Europe). But, after a very delayed departure, it was total crap to have to sit on the tarmac at Heathrow. Finally arrived at the Heathrow Marriot about 4am, only to discover our pre-paid room was one "not normally used" (mildew, missing things). Haven't been to a Marriot since.

In my case, it was a matter of Heathrow being hammered with traffic due to airport closings all over the UK and the continent. Still, I'd have thought getting passengers off planes would have been a higher priority than the experience suggested.
posted by Goofyy at 9:44 AM on February 20, 2007

JetBlue fucked up bad this time, but JetBlue still rocks. Do you know how much more bearable a long delay is with a TV in every seatback? When they trapped me and my GF on the plane in Burlington for three hours last winter, they turned on the TVs and handed out headsets - and although they couldn't let us off the plane, and had no meals onboard, they sent the ground crew to Domino's and brought us pizzas. And their low fares make my short-notice weekend trips to Maine and Puerto Rico possible.
posted by nicwolff at 9:48 AM on February 20, 2007

They're just an airline. All airlines, lately, suck. Including JetBlue.
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:16 AM on February 20, 2007

Do you know how much more bearable a long delay is with a TV in every seatback?

Amen. I am spoiled by in-flight TV; I had to do a short flight (about an hour) recently without one, and it was murder.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:17 AM on February 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

Somebody was going to say this, anyway...it was kinda nice in the pre-deregulation old days when airlines seemed to compete more on service. I remember getting served a pretty nice (2-star-restaurant-quality) breakfast with tableware and china on a Braniff flight. Would somebody open the window and yell at those kids to get off my lawn for me? I'm feeling tired.
posted by pax digita at 10:31 AM on February 20, 2007

Jet Blue Unveils its Image Revival/Damage Control Plan: You get what you pay for you cheap fucking bastards.
posted by three blind mice at 10:38 AM on February 20, 2007

grobstein writes "I strongly suspect that every major airline has in fact done this. You may have to swim to overseas destinations."

If only someone would invent some other kind of vehicle for crossing large bodies of water...
posted by brundlefly at 10:39 AM on February 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

There are two magic words that will get you peacefully removed from any plane trapped on a tarmac: "chest pains". You don't need to pretend it's a full-on heart attack, you need only clutch your chest and mutter those two words to a flight attendant. You'll be taken off very quickly to be able to "recover" in the terminal without having to exaggerate any further to any medical responders.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 10:43 AM on February 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

If only someone would invent some other kind of vehicle for crossing large bodies of water...

Can you imagine that? Think of the possibilities: New York to Southampton in 2 weeks -- or less! San Francisco to Manila in under a month! Lisbon to Rangoon via the Cape of Good Hope in just weeks on a gently rocking steam conveyance rather than months on a dusty, hot caravan trek! You can leave your machete at home.

These are heady times indeed, my friends. Heady times.
posted by chimaera at 10:46 AM on February 20, 2007

A $25 voucher for a 1-hour delay? Bah. Make it on the order of $100/hour, and cash, not a voucher, and I'll consider flying again. As it is, I haven't flown for ~3 years, and I don't see myself flying again anytime soon. With any airline, not just JetBlue.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:46 AM on February 20, 2007

Dreading the near future where 1000 people will be packed on top of each other in Airbus 380 type jumbos on regional/intra-national flights. Slight derail.

We're a long way from that in the US. Airports are spending millions to refit gates for the double-decker planes; you think the mid-size airports will have that sort of money? Also, while a single A380 could carry, say, an entire day's run from Oklahoma City to Denver, it would mean less flexibility and far fewer connections, because those big planes wouldn't be cost-effective to run half-full.

No, this is the future of American flight. Smaller, more efficient planes feeding the hubs. Tulsa, for instance, only has two airlines still flying the big jets in -- American (because their maintenance base is there) and Southwest (because they only fly 737s.) Everyone else flies CRJs or Embraers.
posted by dw at 10:47 AM on February 20, 2007

Did anyone else notice this hole between four and six hours?
For a delay of two to four hours, the passenger would receive $50 off a future flight. With delays of more than six hours, passengers would be entitled to a free round-trip flight equal in value to the one bought for the delayed flight.
So a five hour delay is what, a packet of peanuts? I imagine this is just bad writing on someone's part, but it does not reassure.
posted by exogenous at 10:47 AM on February 20, 2007

"breakfast with tableware and china on a Braniff flight"

Yeah, anything to distract you from their godawful paint schemes!

And yes, this kind of thing has happened to many other airlines. Quite often, it's not their fault. All the pilot hears from ATC is basically "Hang on, dude. We'll find you a gate one of these days."
posted by drstein at 10:48 AM on February 20, 2007

The sea-back TV actually drives me crazy. Whereas the usual overhead ones are easily ignored, this one is right in front of my face, staring at me. And yes, you can turn it off, but my neighbor's sets flash in my peripheral vision, and the damned thing TURNS ITSELF BACK ON whenever they have an announcement to run, and then stays on unless you turn it off again.
posted by hermitosis at 10:50 AM on February 20, 2007

That's so charmingly luddite.
posted by smackfu at 10:50 AM on February 20, 2007

Urgh, SEAT-back.
posted by hermitosis at 10:51 AM on February 20, 2007

Making passengers sit on the plane for long periods of time is certainly not a jetblue-only phenomena. Googling "stranded on the runway" came up with this gem about an American Airlines flight that sat on the runway for nine hours in December.
posted by SteveInMaine at 10:57 AM on February 20, 2007

If I have to spend six hours on a plane, it had better be a JetBlue plane. That extra couple inches of seat width and knee clearance? It makes a big difference to some of us. It's the difference between being able to walk up the ramp without pain after you get off the plane from a 45 minute flight.
posted by lodurr at 11:16 AM on February 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

My understanding is that the airline/aircrew have little or no control over ground ops, but are at the mercy of the tower. Correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by spacely_sprocket at 11:54 AM on February 20, 2007

I once was stuck for several hours on a stationary Amtrak train. Well, that's happened more than once, but I remember this one time particularly well -- I could see a subway station from my window, and knew it was just a few stops on that subway to my home, but I couldn't get off of that train.

I'm never leaving my home again.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:56 AM on February 20, 2007

JetBlue rocks. After years of being treated like a disease by American and United employees, I was floored when they were actually nice. It was such a shock I actually thought something was wrong at first.

And they don't jack you around on prices, either. If a ticket costs $100 a month in advance, it costs the same if you try to buy only 1 day in advance. It also costs the same for two one-way tickets as it does for a round-trip.
posted by Potsy at 11:57 AM on February 20, 2007

spacely_sprocket: My understanding is that the airline/aircrew have little or no control over ground ops, but are at the mercy of the tower. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That's true. The thing JetBlue could've done better last week would be to cancel flights instead of letting them pile up on the runway to keep their "we don't cancel flights" rep.

I've never had the opportunity to fly JetBlue, but I think they are responding to this nightmare well and I'd use them in a heartbeat if they flew anywhere I wanted to go. I still remember that JetBlue pilot who landed his plane without landing gear a few years back. That was all over the news, and great PR for the company.
posted by donajo at 12:19 PM on February 20, 2007

It's better PR when they have landing gear that works.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:33 PM on February 20, 2007

I heard the CEO on NPR yesterday (Talk of the Nation I think). He came of as sincere in his desire to make things right, despite a little corporate-speak that filtered in. He also did personally apologize for the trouble to callers.

I would like to see a CEO from *any* other major airline actually stand up and take some responsibility like Neeleman has. They could still do a lot better, but they seem a little more humane then US Airwarys and the rest of the bunch.
posted by rsanheim at 12:34 PM on February 20, 2007

I love JetBlue. I am totally afraid of getting stuck, but that risk exists everywhere, and JetBlue make me happy otherwise: the leg room, the fares, the pleasant crew. I have two trips with them coming up, and I won't be changing a thing. When you need to cancel, they give you all your money as a credit to be used whenever, and when there is a fare sale a week after you buy your ticket, they will refund the difference. I am still a total whore for them.

(Also, when my BF's flight on American was cancelled, they told him he couldn't fly till Sunday, so the storm screwed everyone, just differently. He took the bus.)
posted by dame at 1:04 PM on February 20, 2007

I will never fly JetBlue; any company that would leave people stuck in the airplane, on the runway, for SIX HOURS without coming up with SOME method of getting them off will never get my money.

I'm assuming you will never fly Northwest, either.

I'm still miffed at Comair (d/b/a Delta Connection) letting my flight sit on the tarmac at JFK for about an hour and a half in perfectly clear weather, especially when the flight itself was just over an hour.

If only someone would invent some other kind of vehicle for crossing large bodies of water...

I'd certainly rather be stuck on a vessel for a week instead of eight hours!

A $25 voucher for a 1-hour delay? Bah. Make it on the order of $100/hour, and cash, not a voucher, and I'll consider flying again.

Something tells me that your unreasonable demands will not be met by the market.
posted by oaf at 3:15 PM on February 20, 2007

My understanding is that the airline/aircrew have little or no control over ground ops, but are at the mercy of the tower. Correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by spacely_sprocket at 2:54 PM EST

This bears repeating. It's all well and good for everyone to bitch and moan at the airlines... but the airlines don't own or run the airports. Yes, of course, the airlines can put the most effective pressure on airports, and that's where your lobbying should go: getting the airlines onboard (ahem) as partners to effect some change at the airports themselves.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:44 PM on February 20, 2007

My understanding is that the airline/aircrew have little or no control over ground ops, but are at the mercy of the tower. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Airlines and airports own the ramps, the tower controls the taxiways. There's a line on the ramp that demarcates local area control and tower control. Ground ops at busy airports will coordinate with the tower to hold planes that they can't get gates clear for, but an airline can do as it wishes on the ramp -- but they can't taxi off the ramp until ground control clears them to do so.

At ramp-rich airports like STL (in the C-D-E terminal ramps), the airlines have hold pads they control.

My beef is simple. I understand delays -- fuck, I fly into ORD about fifteen times a year, I'd better.

There's a huge difference between a six hour delay in the terminal, and a six hour delay on a hold pad. The former sucks, but is controllable. The latter is wrong.

If you can't depart, don't push back. If you have to vacate the gate, push the plane to the hold pad, leave the pax in the terminal.

If you get stuck out there more than two hours, you come back in and deplane. Period.

Entrapping people on the ground for six plus hours should be a crime, and the last thing that's going to earn forgiveness from me is an offer to fly that airline again. The reason they do it is simple -- if you are a certain time late and you haven't departed, all the non-refundable tickets become refundable, because the airline has violated the contract of carriage. If you've pushed back, you've "departed."

That's what I want changed. "departed" means "taken off for the destination, with a valid clearance." If your EDCT¹is 3 hours late, the passengers should have the right to walk away from the flight. They could do this if you haven't put them out in the penalty box².

So, they board you, push back, which means you've departed, now, you can't get a refund unless you're flying a Y fare³, unless they give up and taxi back to the terminal, which they will only do under two circumstances: 1) Active revolt, or 2) Crew going illegal (too long on duty) before takeoff, which means they can't legally takeoff. If they pull back, they've violated the contracted of carriage by taking from FOO to FOO, rather than FOO to BAR.


1) Estimated Departure Clearance Time. When airports are running delay programs, you wait to be cleared to fly to that airport. The idea is to avoid the very expensive airborne holding that occurs if you have 100 airplanes trying to land at an airport that's constrained to 72 landings per hour. Yes, those are real numbers. Yes, that would be ORD.

2) Yes, there is a holding pad that's named the "Penalty Box." Of course it is at ORD.

3) Y fare: Full fare coach. Refundable, transferable, changeable at will. One definition of "bearer bond" is "a Y fare paper ticket."
posted by eriko at 4:09 PM on February 20, 2007 [3 favorites]

Hey eriko, is there a site where one might go to learn insider information of the type that you posess about airline and airport procedures and regulations? If not, want to type up the body of your expertise into a manuscript, and email it to me, for which I would gladly pay you less than ten dollars?
posted by Kwine at 6:04 PM on February 20, 2007

once was stuck for several hours on a stationary Amtrak train. Well, that's happened more than once, but I remember this one time particularly well -- I could see a subway station from my window, and knew it was just a few stops on that subway to my home, but I couldn't get off of that train."

God I hate when this happens. I got stuck on a C-Train for 90 minutes once in 30 degree weather and it was terrible. At least we were inbound and at 30% capacity rather than outbound and a 110%. I took my car for a week to wash the bad taste out of my mind.
posted by Mitheral at 9:46 AM on February 21, 2007

i used to love jetblue unreservedly, but the last few flights have been delayed between half an hour and two hours. that in itself isn't a problem, but it's the "lie to the customers" strategy that drives me up the wall. one delay was particularly galling...after an hour delay getting on, we pulled away and THAT was when the pilot announced our hour-long wait for clearance. "gosh, folks, i had NO idea there were so many planes out here...next time, i'll peek out the window before i split from the gate."

i wouldn't mind waiting that hour if they'd said the flight deck was crowded up front, instead of pretending that 50 planes had suddenly queued while we were boarding.
posted by paul_smatatoes at 12:26 PM on February 21, 2007