The Grammys have come and gone.
February 21, 2001 11:43 PM Subscribe
The Grammys have come and gone.
Reactions? Revulsion? Observations? And what's the deal with Steely Dan?
Reactions? Revulsion? Observations? And what's the deal with Steely Dan?
Did anyone else find Christina Aguilera sickeningly skinny? Disturbing.
And how about that Elton/Eminem hug at the end. Seem forced? Planned? It at the very least looked highly awkward.
posted by brittney at 11:54 PM on February 21, 2001
And how about that Elton/Eminem hug at the end. Seem forced? Planned? It at the very least looked highly awkward.
posted by brittney at 11:54 PM on February 21, 2001
My mother was so disgusted with the inability of the announcers and interviewers to speak properly and conduct conversations/interviews that she called CBS to tell them what a lousy job they did.
posted by tomorama at 11:55 PM on February 21, 2001
posted by tomorama at 11:55 PM on February 21, 2001
i know a lot of people are going to disagree, but... i thought eminem was great. the second-to-last verse of stan (the last verse he raps as stan) was incredible to see performed like that. what did everyone think of elton john? i thought it was pretty cool that they hugged, and while i'm sure it was somewhat staged, i can't really see eminem doing something just cos the grammies want him to.
posted by pikachulolita at 12:21 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by pikachulolita at 12:21 AM on February 22, 2001
I'd just like to note, I have absolutely no idea who/what Steely Dan is.
Other than that, it seemed like a pretty normal Grammy show to me. More and more it seems like there's more performances than actual awards, but whatever. I must say despite my dislike for 'N Sync, their performances are usually well executed. I thought the Eminem performance was pretty good, nice twist with the Elton John. I mean, obviously it was staged, but that doesn't mean it was completely fake. It's not something I'm surprised to see.
posted by swank6 at 12:40 AM on February 22, 2001
Other than that, it seemed like a pretty normal Grammy show to me. More and more it seems like there's more performances than actual awards, but whatever. I must say despite my dislike for 'N Sync, their performances are usually well executed. I thought the Eminem performance was pretty good, nice twist with the Elton John. I mean, obviously it was staged, but that doesn't mean it was completely fake. It's not something I'm surprised to see.
posted by swank6 at 12:40 AM on February 22, 2001
Steely Dan was a safe vote for the Academy (the other safe vote being Kid A, but more on that in a sec), Fagan and Becker have been making music for years, and this is like a "Lifetime Achievement because we want to be careful of our image award." I'm personally not a fan of it, but I can see why they voted that way.
1) Paul Simon already has gotten tons of awards--the album ain't all that great, either, but it did make the list.
2) Radiohead - I'm surprised this didn't win, seeing as how every critic and wizard's-cap-loving dork went ape in their reviews of this album. I thought it was self-indulgent tripe, but I'm in the minority. The only reason this wasn't a safe vote is because it sends a record-industry message to RH: "If you don't want to release singles or make videos, we will snub you. Try again after you release the next album."
3) Eminem - People love him. People hate him. I'm not a vast repository of rap knowledge, but Dr. Dre know HOW to produce a great-sounding record, and the kid has skills and more importantly, charisma. There's NO way this album could have won, though, because the Academy or whatever the hell they call the Grammy group would've come under heavy fire from all sorts of groups on both the left and right wings. Lieberman doesn't need any more excuses or motivators.
4) Beck - Another safe vote--why not for Beck? Probably because Midnite Vultures just sort of disappeared after it hit the shelves. Beck was good to nominate, as he represented "hipness," but his popularity has waned a little bit since Odelay and Mutations.
This is a weird post. I didn't even watch most of the Grammys, and I wasn't really interested in most of the musicians there, but I somehow had a lot to say. Weird.
By the way, Sir Elton's outfit was quite a hoot. Gotta love that guy.
posted by one.louder.ash! at 12:54 AM on February 22, 2001
1) Paul Simon already has gotten tons of awards--the album ain't all that great, either, but it did make the list.
2) Radiohead - I'm surprised this didn't win, seeing as how every critic and wizard's-cap-loving dork went ape in their reviews of this album. I thought it was self-indulgent tripe, but I'm in the minority. The only reason this wasn't a safe vote is because it sends a record-industry message to RH: "If you don't want to release singles or make videos, we will snub you. Try again after you release the next album."
3) Eminem - People love him. People hate him. I'm not a vast repository of rap knowledge, but Dr. Dre know HOW to produce a great-sounding record, and the kid has skills and more importantly, charisma. There's NO way this album could have won, though, because the Academy or whatever the hell they call the Grammy group would've come under heavy fire from all sorts of groups on both the left and right wings. Lieberman doesn't need any more excuses or motivators.
4) Beck - Another safe vote--why not for Beck? Probably because Midnite Vultures just sort of disappeared after it hit the shelves. Beck was good to nominate, as he represented "hipness," but his popularity has waned a little bit since Odelay and Mutations.
This is a weird post. I didn't even watch most of the Grammys, and I wasn't really interested in most of the musicians there, but I somehow had a lot to say. Weird.
By the way, Sir Elton's outfit was quite a hoot. Gotta love that guy.
posted by one.louder.ash! at 12:54 AM on February 22, 2001
The Foo Fighters rule, good to see they won a couple.
posted by benricho at 1:04 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by benricho at 1:04 AM on February 22, 2001
Eminem is signed by a "big label" and no matter what he says, he is very much tuned into the economics of the business. If Grammy wanted him to lick the shoe of RuPaul, he would've done that too.
We always forget - this is "show business." Everything is staged and carefully planned by PR people. I was busy watching the other "show business," West Wing.
posted by tamim at 1:20 AM on February 22, 2001
We always forget - this is "show business." Everything is staged and carefully planned by PR people. I was busy watching the other "show business," West Wing.
posted by tamim at 1:20 AM on February 22, 2001
The thing with Eminem and Elton John is that Americans simply have a higher natural predisposition to cheese. I can't imagine the Sex Pistols playing a set with Elton John... ON Elton John, perhaps...
posted by barbelith at 1:35 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by barbelith at 1:35 AM on February 22, 2001
I watched some of it. I thought Jon Stewart was pretty terrible. The pacing was boring and predictable (commercial, joke, performance, award, repeat). Too many breast-revealing outfits. Not enough shots of "artists" who were there! I mean, if I was nuts about a certain musician, I'd want to see shots of them in the audience, I wouldn't want to see clips of their music video I've seen 100 times. Hell, I'm not going to spend these early morning minutes complaining about this show. Someone else can do that.
posted by gluechunk at 1:48 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by gluechunk at 1:48 AM on February 22, 2001
"Tried to warn you 'bout Chino and Daddy G..."
Steely Dan is a complex Burgundy in a lite beer world. They are the ultimate studio band (a dubious honor, admittedly), with incredible harmonies and innovative rhythms built around lyrics that read like Pynchon (and sometimes Mark Leyner) compressed. But they aren't very "industry": self-produced albums, very few live performances, and lots of concept albums (even Two Against Nature hints at a plot line). People who don't listen carefully think it sounds like adult contemporary, but I don't think I'm that old just yet.
Interesting cocktail hour trivia: Both Michael McDonald and Chevy Chase have played with SD.
posted by chino at 2:17 AM on February 22, 2001
Steely Dan is a complex Burgundy in a lite beer world. They are the ultimate studio band (a dubious honor, admittedly), with incredible harmonies and innovative rhythms built around lyrics that read like Pynchon (and sometimes Mark Leyner) compressed. But they aren't very "industry": self-produced albums, very few live performances, and lots of concept albums (even Two Against Nature hints at a plot line). People who don't listen carefully think it sounds like adult contemporary, but I don't think I'm that old just yet.
Interesting cocktail hour trivia: Both Michael McDonald and Chevy Chase have played with SD.
posted by chino at 2:17 AM on February 22, 2001
Too many breast-revealing outfits.
The words "too many" and "breast-revealing outfits" never belong in a single sentence, sexist pig though this undoubtedly reveals me to be. (Hey, if they wanna put 'em on display, I'm not going to not look.)
posted by kindall at 2:29 AM on February 22, 2001
The words "too many" and "breast-revealing outfits" never belong in a single sentence, sexist pig though this undoubtedly reveals me to be. (Hey, if they wanna put 'em on display, I'm not going to not look.)
posted by kindall at 2:29 AM on February 22, 2001
I think tamim's comments are spot on.
I watched only the last 30 minutes or so of the Grammys, enough to see the ridiculous pairing of Elton John and Eminem. I nearly vomitted in terror. It was awful. Here was Eminem, rapping and doing his thing, and there was Elton, playing piano and doing the Dido part which was juuuuust a little out of his range. It felt really uncohesive, but I will give Eminem a tinge of credit: he knew how to get people involved. He raised his voice and nearly yelled to simulate anger. oooh.
I was beyond weirded out by seeing Steely Dan win, and I think I'm equally weirded out that a few people don't know who Steely Dan are. Not like they're super duper legends, but they've been around long enough. I haven't heard the album, only the single (ay the rub), but "Your Cousin Dupree" is a very breezy, catchy single - however, it feels incredibly out of place in 2001. Maybe that's part of the reason they won.
Just looking up and down the list of nominees, by the way, will demonstrate how screwed up the labels are. Pop, rock, hard rock, alternative... almost all of them blend in some way; I feel the labels just don't work.
I'm very glad that stinking Creed song didn't win anything.
posted by hijinx at 4:28 AM on February 22, 2001
I watched only the last 30 minutes or so of the Grammys, enough to see the ridiculous pairing of Elton John and Eminem. I nearly vomitted in terror. It was awful. Here was Eminem, rapping and doing his thing, and there was Elton, playing piano and doing the Dido part which was juuuuust a little out of his range. It felt really uncohesive, but I will give Eminem a tinge of credit: he knew how to get people involved. He raised his voice and nearly yelled to simulate anger. oooh.
I was beyond weirded out by seeing Steely Dan win, and I think I'm equally weirded out that a few people don't know who Steely Dan are. Not like they're super duper legends, but they've been around long enough. I haven't heard the album, only the single (ay the rub), but "Your Cousin Dupree" is a very breezy, catchy single - however, it feels incredibly out of place in 2001. Maybe that's part of the reason they won.
Just looking up and down the list of nominees, by the way, will demonstrate how screwed up the labels are. Pop, rock, hard rock, alternative... almost all of them blend in some way; I feel the labels just don't work.
I'm very glad that stinking Creed song didn't win anything.
posted by hijinx at 4:28 AM on February 22, 2001
What's the difference between "Record of the Year" and "Album of the Year"? Aren't they technically the same thing?
Dictionary.com defines them as:n. rec·ord (rkrd). ...7.a. A disk designed to be played on a phonograph. al·bum (lbm) 2.d. A phonograph record. e. A recording of different musical pieces.What am I not getting?
posted by warhol at 4:56 AM on February 22, 2001
Dictionary.com defines them as:n. rec·ord (rkrd). ...7.a. A disk designed to be played on a phonograph. al·bum (lbm) 2.d. A phonograph record. e. A recording of different musical pieces.What am I not getting?
posted by warhol at 4:56 AM on February 22, 2001
Was it just me, or did the control room hit the 'silence' button a bit too slow during the eminem performance? I applaud them for letting shit, bitch, and ass, come out of eminem's mouth during the performance ( though im on the east coast and im sure they'll edit the words out for rebroadcast on the west), though im sure that some people might not see it that way ( even though it was after 10:30 at night and little junior should be in bed by then ). Is 'shit' a word thats now accepted in the latenight network tv lexicon?
posted by ewwgene at 5:19 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by ewwgene at 5:19 AM on February 22, 2001
Umm. hijinx, that stinking Creed song did win something:
Category 20 - Best Rock Song
With Arms Wide Open (Listen) (Buy)
Scott Stapp & Mark Tremonti, songwriters (Creed)
Track From: Human Clay
[Wind-Up; Publisher: Tremonti/Stapp Music]
unless you're talking about one of the other terrible Creed songs.
posted by flammableskirt at 5:30 AM on February 22, 2001
Category 20 - Best Rock Song
With Arms Wide Open (Listen) (Buy)
Scott Stapp & Mark Tremonti, songwriters (Creed)
Track From: Human Clay
[Wind-Up; Publisher: Tremonti/Stapp Music]
unless you're talking about one of the other terrible Creed songs.
posted by flammableskirt at 5:30 AM on February 22, 2001
I have absolutely no idea who/what Steely Dan is
It's not suprising that many Generation Y'ers don't know who Steely Dan is given the fact that their music lives on mainly in the form of elevator/supermarket muzak (Hey Nineteen, Rikki Don't Lose That Number). It's a shame because Fagen and Becker produced some of the best and most sophisticated music in the 1970's.
posted by Chairman_MaoXian at 5:31 AM on February 22, 2001
It's not suprising that many Generation Y'ers don't know who Steely Dan is given the fact that their music lives on mainly in the form of elevator/supermarket muzak (Hey Nineteen, Rikki Don't Lose That Number). It's a shame because Fagen and Becker produced some of the best and most sophisticated music in the 1970's.
posted by Chairman_MaoXian at 5:31 AM on February 22, 2001
My mother was so disgusted with the inability of the announcers and interviewers to speak properly and conduct conversations/interviews that she called CBS to tell them what a lousy job they did.
Weren't they horrid though? Crikey, my high school talent contest looked more professional, when it comes to the ability of the announcers to act, well, professional... as opposed to "I have no clue what I'm supposed to say, so I'll just read off my cue card"
posted by dagnyscott at 6:02 AM on February 22, 2001
Weren't they horrid though? Crikey, my high school talent contest looked more professional, when it comes to the ability of the announcers to act, well, professional... as opposed to "I have no clue what I'm supposed to say, so I'll just read off my cue card"
posted by dagnyscott at 6:02 AM on February 22, 2001
Steely Dan winning reminded me of Jethro Tull beating out Metallica a few years ago. The academy just gave it to the old timers out of respect. I haven't heard their new album, so I don't know how good or bad it was, but it just seems odd that they won. Then again, this is the Grammies, so nothing is odd.
I used to be a big fan of U2, before the "disco" phase. I actually like some of the new stuff, but come on. Beautiful Day? That song just isn't worthy of three awards.
It was fun watching Robbie Robertson try to get political even though no one seemed to get his jokes.
I feel like I should probably hate Eminem, but I don't. I actually think he's good at what he does. He raps in full sentences and doesn't feel the need to throw in all the typical rap cliché's ("gat", "nine", "word", etc.) At least not in the two or three songs of his I've heard. The pairing with Elton was obviously a PR move on both sides, but it could have been worse.
I want one of those pipe things the Blue Man Group was playing.
I felt very old because I didn't know who half the people were on stage. I had no idea who the MC was.
posted by bondcliff at 6:06 AM on February 22, 2001
I used to be a big fan of U2, before the "disco" phase. I actually like some of the new stuff, but come on. Beautiful Day? That song just isn't worthy of three awards.
It was fun watching Robbie Robertson try to get political even though no one seemed to get his jokes.
I feel like I should probably hate Eminem, but I don't. I actually think he's good at what he does. He raps in full sentences and doesn't feel the need to throw in all the typical rap cliché's ("gat", "nine", "word", etc.) At least not in the two or three songs of his I've heard. The pairing with Elton was obviously a PR move on both sides, but it could have been worse.
I want one of those pipe things the Blue Man Group was playing.
I felt very old because I didn't know who half the people were on stage. I had no idea who the MC was.
posted by bondcliff at 6:06 AM on February 22, 2001
Steely Dan is to Eminem as Jethro Tull is to Metallica.
posted by jbelshaw at 6:20 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by jbelshaw at 6:20 AM on February 22, 2001
flammableskirt: Umm. hijinx, that stinking Creed song did win something...
Noooooooo!
posted by hijinx at 6:26 AM on February 22, 2001
Noooooooo!
posted by hijinx at 6:26 AM on February 22, 2001
is anyone else bothered by the enormous hypocracy of eminem performing w/ elton last night? what ever happened to "you think I give a damn about a grammy--half of you critics can't even stomach me, let alone stand me 'but slim, what if you win? wouldn't it be weird?' why? so you guys can just lie to get me here to sit me here next to britney spears..."
i guess there's so much hypocracy perpetrated by everyone in this country that no one even blinks anymore when someone clearly and deliberately violates their own moral proclamations...
posted by palegirl at 6:44 AM on February 22, 2001
i guess there's so much hypocracy perpetrated by everyone in this country that no one even blinks anymore when someone clearly and deliberately violates their own moral proclamations...
posted by palegirl at 6:44 AM on February 22, 2001
What's the difference between "Record of the Year" and "Album of the Year"? Aren't they technically the same thing?
No, they're not. Record of the Year is technically "Radio Single of the Year" as evidenced by the nominees and actual winner, U2 for Beautiful Day. It's akin to the "performance" awards (like "best male rock performance") but can encompass music across all genres.
Most people don't the difference between "Record of the Year" and "Song of the Year" but the latter goes to the actual songwriter who is often not the performer.
That said, I was utterly disappointed about almost the entire show. Jon Stewart nearly made me stop loving him. He was banal and boring and if he had told one more gay + Eminem joke I would've vomited.
As to Elton and Eminem (and as a longtime Elton fanatic and fan of that particular song) I thought the performance was pretty captivating, and fulfilled both of their reported purposes well. If nothing else, it was Elton serving notice that the only agenda he heeds is his own, and for that I give him voluminous credit.
But I need to save the heart of my thoughts for my own show recap.
posted by Dreama at 7:44 AM on February 22, 2001
No, they're not. Record of the Year is technically "Radio Single of the Year" as evidenced by the nominees and actual winner, U2 for Beautiful Day. It's akin to the "performance" awards (like "best male rock performance") but can encompass music across all genres.
Most people don't the difference between "Record of the Year" and "Song of the Year" but the latter goes to the actual songwriter who is often not the performer.
That said, I was utterly disappointed about almost the entire show. Jon Stewart nearly made me stop loving him. He was banal and boring and if he had told one more gay + Eminem joke I would've vomited.
As to Elton and Eminem (and as a longtime Elton fanatic and fan of that particular song) I thought the performance was pretty captivating, and fulfilled both of their reported purposes well. If nothing else, it was Elton serving notice that the only agenda he heeds is his own, and for that I give him voluminous credit.
But I need to save the heart of my thoughts for my own show recap.
posted by Dreama at 7:44 AM on February 22, 2001
palegirl:
I think it sounds pretty easy to say something like that lyric when you are a rapper trying to be a tough guy w/everyone criticizing you, but when the committee says you're gonna get the top spot in the show you're gonna break.
I don't believe that just because something comes out of Eminem's mouth, it applies to Marshall Mathers. And if that is the most enormous hypocrisy you can find, you imho aren't looking hard enough.
posted by jbelshaw at 7:45 AM on February 22, 2001
I think it sounds pretty easy to say something like that lyric when you are a rapper trying to be a tough guy w/everyone criticizing you, but when the committee says you're gonna get the top spot in the show you're gonna break.
I don't believe that just because something comes out of Eminem's mouth, it applies to Marshall Mathers. And if that is the most enormous hypocrisy you can find, you imho aren't looking hard enough.
posted by jbelshaw at 7:45 AM on February 22, 2001
Some notes:
1) I might as well have been under anaesthetic while listening to Two Against Nature for all I can remember of it. And I was listening with the intention of liking it.
2) Steely Dan is to Eminem as Jethro Tull is to the Clash.
3) Robert Christgau noted in his essay in the Village Voice:
Pundits are in a lather over (Eminem's) Grammy nods while no one peeps about Steely Dan's Two Against Nature, in which cheaters plot to drive a wronged wife insane and a lovable pedophile sets up a three-way with his "Janie Runaway."
posted by argybarg at 7:49 AM on February 22, 2001
1) I might as well have been under anaesthetic while listening to Two Against Nature for all I can remember of it. And I was listening with the intention of liking it.
2) Steely Dan is to Eminem as Jethro Tull is to the Clash.
3) Robert Christgau noted in his essay in the Village Voice:
Pundits are in a lather over (Eminem's) Grammy nods while no one peeps about Steely Dan's Two Against Nature, in which cheaters plot to drive a wronged wife insane and a lovable pedophile sets up a three-way with his "Janie Runaway."
posted by argybarg at 7:49 AM on February 22, 2001
Not to mention the name "Steely Dan" was taken from the name of a dildo.
posted by bondcliff at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by bondcliff at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2001
>Was it just me, or did the control room hit the 'silence' button a bit too slow during the eminem performance?
No, I don't think it was just you. They were really sloppy with that.
I think the whole Grammy structure just doesn't work anymore, because music seems to have fractured into so many sub-camps. To me, there's something very, very wrong when Britney Spears shows up in the same category as Joni Mitchell. How are those to be compared? They're doing two completely different things.
posted by dnash at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2001
No, I don't think it was just you. They were really sloppy with that.
I think the whole Grammy structure just doesn't work anymore, because music seems to have fractured into so many sub-camps. To me, there's something very, very wrong when Britney Spears shows up in the same category as Joni Mitchell. How are those to be compared? They're doing two completely different things.
posted by dnash at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2001
I found Elton John's outfit more offensive than Eminem's lyrics.
posted by susanlucci at 7:56 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by susanlucci at 7:56 AM on February 22, 2001
I think that's the *good* thing about the Grammys (maybe the only good thing). Joni Mitchell is a pop musician just like Britney, as much as it pains her fans to admit it. It's all just music.
posted by rodii at 8:00 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by rodii at 8:00 AM on February 22, 2001
Bondcliff, if you haven't heard the new Steely Dan album, then how can you know that "The academy just gave it to the old timers out of respect"?
posted by websavvy at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by websavvy at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2001
I guess I'm going to be the only person here to advance the opinion that Steely Dan has always been a terrifyingly awful "rock" group. I don't get how anyone can listen to them. Tippity-tappity-Tourette's rhythms, pained white-guy faux-funk and sophomoric we're-so-impenetrable lyrics. They make me itch.
posted by Skot at 8:23 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by Skot at 8:23 AM on February 22, 2001
I second Skot's emotion (with the caveat that Pretzel Logic was a wonderful album).
posted by argybarg at 8:30 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by argybarg at 8:30 AM on February 22, 2001
I thought Jon Stewart was pretty good. He had a week to prepare for the gig, and he knew that he was out of his league. He turned those facts to his comedic advantage. I'll take him over (scheduled host) Whoopi (Center Square) Goldberg.
Steely f*cking Dan?!?!?!?! So I guess next year they're going to give the Grammy to "the dude who invented Muzak".
posted by Optamystic at 8:56 AM on February 22, 2001
Steely f*cking Dan?!?!?!?! So I guess next year they're going to give the Grammy to "the dude who invented Muzak".
posted by Optamystic at 8:56 AM on February 22, 2001
Except for Elton and Emmie's performance, that was incredibly lackluster. Lame, I tells ya!
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:01 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:01 AM on February 22, 2001
The name 'Steely Dan' was inspired by a William S. Burroughs book titled Naked Lunch. And yes, in the book the name steely dan was used to refer to a dildo.
posted by Jeremy at 9:15 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by Jeremy at 9:15 AM on February 22, 2001
As David Letterman said straight after, "It was so long, dull and drawn out that I thought I was hosting it."
Let's face it, the Grammys are an irrelevance. Especially in the UK, when we always wake up to hear that the few Brits nominated have been beaten by 70s throwbacks with receding hairlines and ponytails. It doesn't represent the musical world as I appreciate it; it's more like the double glazing industry's annual awards.
That said, Mrs Ritchie is looking good these days.
posted by holgate at 9:22 AM on February 22, 2001
Let's face it, the Grammys are an irrelevance. Especially in the UK, when we always wake up to hear that the few Brits nominated have been beaten by 70s throwbacks with receding hairlines and ponytails. It doesn't represent the musical world as I appreciate it; it's more like the double glazing industry's annual awards.
That said, Mrs Ritchie is looking good these days.
posted by holgate at 9:22 AM on February 22, 2001
Face it, no one was coming out of the awards feeling like the best artist(s) won, as always. For every good thing you could say about any of the bands nominated for album of the year, you'd have two detractors knocking them back down a notch.
Maybe Steely Dan just got lucky when the bingo caller was choosing winners for the Grammys this year. I'd like to think it's more than that, being a die-hard Dan fan.
Oh, and by the way, Two Against Nature is a great album if you're in the mood to just mellow out and get lost in a good story. Personal favs are the title track and "What a Shame About Me".
posted by fischler at 9:29 AM on February 22, 2001
Maybe Steely Dan just got lucky when the bingo caller was choosing winners for the Grammys this year. I'd like to think it's more than that, being a die-hard Dan fan.
Oh, and by the way, Two Against Nature is a great album if you're in the mood to just mellow out and get lost in a good story. Personal favs are the title track and "What a Shame About Me".
posted by fischler at 9:29 AM on February 22, 2001
Steely Dan rules. I'm surprised they won the Grammy, it was basically too diverse a group for the voters to handle and Steely Dan probably won by a very slim plurality... nothing to get worked up about, it's just the Grammy after all.
posted by cell divide at 9:35 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by cell divide at 9:35 AM on February 22, 2001
I thought eminem had the only performance worth seeing. He did nothing to convert people who hate him, but then again what would? Bottom line: He has talent.
what ever happened to "you think I give a damn about a grammy--half of you critics can't even stomach me, let alone stand me 'but slim, what if you win? wouldn't it be weird?' why? so you guys can just lie to get me here to sit me here next to britney spears..."
I really don't think he does give a damn about a grammy. He performs, he sells more cds, he gets more money. Simple. There's no hypocracy involved.
posted by gtr at 9:43 AM on February 22, 2001
what ever happened to "you think I give a damn about a grammy--half of you critics can't even stomach me, let alone stand me 'but slim, what if you win? wouldn't it be weird?' why? so you guys can just lie to get me here to sit me here next to britney spears..."
I really don't think he does give a damn about a grammy. He performs, he sells more cds, he gets more money. Simple. There's no hypocracy involved.
posted by gtr at 9:43 AM on February 22, 2001
Robert Christgau noted in his essay in the Village Voice:
Pundits are in a lather over (Eminem's) Grammy nods while no one peeps about Steely Dan's Two Against Nature, in which cheaters plot to drive a wronged wife insane and a lovable pedophile sets up a three-way with his "Janie Runaway."
When the critics lover a singer/band/act, they really handle them with kid golves (the critics love Steely Dan -- there was a rave in The New Yorker when their album came out last year). I don't remember any critics coming down hard on Steve Earle when he released I Feel Alright in 1996 and that had songs with these lyrics:
You said you're gonna call the cops
But I ain't gonna run
Because you're the only one
There ain't no way I could live without you
And:
I never meant to be cruel or untrue
I'm just hurtin' me when I'm hurtin' you
Maybe I'm over-analyzing, but those sound like paeans to beating/stalking to me. (Calling music critics hypocritical is hackneyed, but it's also probably true.)
posted by MarkAnd at 9:50 AM on February 22, 2001
Pundits are in a lather over (Eminem's) Grammy nods while no one peeps about Steely Dan's Two Against Nature, in which cheaters plot to drive a wronged wife insane and a lovable pedophile sets up a three-way with his "Janie Runaway."
When the critics lover a singer/band/act, they really handle them with kid golves (the critics love Steely Dan -- there was a rave in The New Yorker when their album came out last year). I don't remember any critics coming down hard on Steve Earle when he released I Feel Alright in 1996 and that had songs with these lyrics:
You said you're gonna call the cops
But I ain't gonna run
Because you're the only one
There ain't no way I could live without you
And:
I never meant to be cruel or untrue
I'm just hurtin' me when I'm hurtin' you
Maybe I'm over-analyzing, but those sound like paeans to beating/stalking to me. (Calling music critics hypocritical is hackneyed, but it's also probably true.)
posted by MarkAnd at 9:50 AM on February 22, 2001
I thought eminem had the only performance worth seeing. He did nothing to convert people who hate him
While I didn't exactly HATE him before last night, I certainly didn't LIKE him. I gotta say, he changed my mind. It was a good song, and a solid performance. Now I gotta go and take back all that stuff I said about him.
posted by Optamystic at 10:12 AM on February 22, 2001
While I didn't exactly HATE him before last night, I certainly didn't LIKE him. I gotta say, he changed my mind. It was a good song, and a solid performance. Now I gotta go and take back all that stuff I said about him.
posted by Optamystic at 10:12 AM on February 22, 2001
So, why is Eminem such a big deal all of a sudden? I think nothing he says is any worse than much of what I've heard in some other hip hop acts dating back to the early 90's. Remember the Getto Boys? How about Ice Cube's Amerikka's Most Wanted? Granted, they caused a buzz, but not to the same amount. Is it just because he's white and popular?
For my 2¢, I don't think he's that bad. Not any worse than any other MTV-brown-nose, that is. I'll d/l his songs on napster, but I sure as hell won't pay for them ;)
posted by Hackworth at 10:58 AM on February 22, 2001
For my 2¢, I don't think he's that bad. Not any worse than any other MTV-brown-nose, that is. I'll d/l his songs on napster, but I sure as hell won't pay for them ;)
posted by Hackworth at 10:58 AM on February 22, 2001
[bondcliff] I used to be a big fan of U2, before the "disco" phase. I actually like some of the new stuff, but come on. Beautiful Day? That song just isn't worthy of three awards.
"Beautiful Day" is a great song, and it's certainly better deserving of Best Song/Record/Rock Performance than the other nominees. But of course, that's personal opinion.
RE U2's "disco" phase: I'm curious how you define that. The conventional wisdom would include Achtung Baby through Pop, but AB has no "disco" on it, it's purely a rock album, and a great one at that. Zooropa has two or three songs that could be considered "disco," and Pop has a few "dance" songs, but overall they're still all rock-based and the majority of the material is not dance/disco.
In any case, the group couldn't have continued on the gospel-blues-atmospheric-rock path they were on with The Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum. They had just about played that line as far as it could possibly go. More of the same would have been a cop out. They were courageous enough to try something different instead of going the easy route, much like they did with The Unforgettable Fire, which was a huge departure from their first three albums, and generated a lot of the same criticism that the post-Rattle and Hum albums did in the 90s.
I encourage you to give at least Achtung Baby and Zooropa another listen or fourteen. Those two albums are far and away U2's greatest, but they aren't going to jump out and slap your face with their quality, you have to actively search for it. It's worth the effort, believe me.
posted by daveadams at 11:17 AM on February 22, 2001
"Beautiful Day" is a great song, and it's certainly better deserving of Best Song/Record/Rock Performance than the other nominees. But of course, that's personal opinion.
RE U2's "disco" phase: I'm curious how you define that. The conventional wisdom would include Achtung Baby through Pop, but AB has no "disco" on it, it's purely a rock album, and a great one at that. Zooropa has two or three songs that could be considered "disco," and Pop has a few "dance" songs, but overall they're still all rock-based and the majority of the material is not dance/disco.
In any case, the group couldn't have continued on the gospel-blues-atmospheric-rock path they were on with The Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum. They had just about played that line as far as it could possibly go. More of the same would have been a cop out. They were courageous enough to try something different instead of going the easy route, much like they did with The Unforgettable Fire, which was a huge departure from their first three albums, and generated a lot of the same criticism that the post-Rattle and Hum albums did in the 90s.
I encourage you to give at least Achtung Baby and Zooropa another listen or fourteen. Those two albums are far and away U2's greatest, but they aren't going to jump out and slap your face with their quality, you have to actively search for it. It's worth the effort, believe me.
posted by daveadams at 11:17 AM on February 22, 2001
Hackworth: Eminem is white.
posted by cell divide at 11:51 AM on February 22, 2001
posted by cell divide at 11:51 AM on February 22, 2001
jeeeesus harold christ on a popsicle stick!!! eminem. elton john. steely dan. creed.
40+ comments on mefi and not one person has mentioned the fact that 'who let the dogs out' won a grammy!!?!!?! as a dance song. the only people dancing to this are fat, shirtless NFL fans and their pathetic hot-dog stuffing brethren in the vast, empty baseball stadiums across the country.
focus people, focus.
posted by donkeysuck at 12:12 PM on February 22, 2001
40+ comments on mefi and not one person has mentioned the fact that 'who let the dogs out' won a grammy!!?!!?! as a dance song. the only people dancing to this are fat, shirtless NFL fans and their pathetic hot-dog stuffing brethren in the vast, empty baseball stadiums across the country.
focus people, focus.
posted by donkeysuck at 12:12 PM on February 22, 2001
Daveadams:
I own both Actung Baby and Zooropa. I actually think Zooropa is one of their best albums. I own "Pop" as well and, although I think most of it is crap, there are a few good tunes on it. I've listened to all their albums quite a bit.
Even still, the beginning of the end for U2 (at least for me) was some time after "Rattle and Hum".
Seeing U2 back in '86 or so on "The Joshua Tree" tour there were four guys on stage playing their instruments, getting into the music, being themselves.
Flash forward to the Zoo TV tour. The same four guys are playing along to sequenced tracks, video screens, and dancing girls. Bono is suddenly a "rock star" and he knows it. Sure, it was an interesting show. Sure, they had some pretty innovative multimedia stuff going on. It just wasn't U2.
For those of us that loved U2 mainly because they weren't into the typical rock gimmicks, it was pretty hard to swallow it all. They were more than just a band branching out and trying new things (something all bands should do), they were a new band altogether and they had become exactly what they always prided themselves in not being.
I loved Boy, October and War. I don't want U2 to keep writing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" or "Gloria." They are good musicians, they should branch out and do new things. This is what they've done.
Although they could have done it a lot better, in my opinion.
posted by bondcliff at 12:32 PM on February 22, 2001
I own both Actung Baby and Zooropa. I actually think Zooropa is one of their best albums. I own "Pop" as well and, although I think most of it is crap, there are a few good tunes on it. I've listened to all their albums quite a bit.
Even still, the beginning of the end for U2 (at least for me) was some time after "Rattle and Hum".
Seeing U2 back in '86 or so on "The Joshua Tree" tour there were four guys on stage playing their instruments, getting into the music, being themselves.
Flash forward to the Zoo TV tour. The same four guys are playing along to sequenced tracks, video screens, and dancing girls. Bono is suddenly a "rock star" and he knows it. Sure, it was an interesting show. Sure, they had some pretty innovative multimedia stuff going on. It just wasn't U2.
For those of us that loved U2 mainly because they weren't into the typical rock gimmicks, it was pretty hard to swallow it all. They were more than just a band branching out and trying new things (something all bands should do), they were a new band altogether and they had become exactly what they always prided themselves in not being.
I loved Boy, October and War. I don't want U2 to keep writing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" or "Gloria." They are good musicians, they should branch out and do new things. This is what they've done.
Although they could have done it a lot better, in my opinion.
posted by bondcliff at 12:32 PM on February 22, 2001
40+ comments on mefi and not one person has mentioned the fact that 'who let the dogs out' won a grammy!!?!!?! as a dance song.
Oh my goodness. I'm glad I wasn't watching at the time, or I might have had a heart attack or something. I guess the Grammy judges are the only people in the world who can still stand that song.
posted by Jeanne at 12:39 PM on February 22, 2001
Oh my goodness. I'm glad I wasn't watching at the time, or I might have had a heart attack or something. I guess the Grammy judges are the only people in the world who can still stand that song.
posted by Jeanne at 12:39 PM on February 22, 2001
The Grammys overlook a controversial but interesting act in favor of old geezers? Check. The Grammys have more categories than you can shake a stick at but still lump incompatible performers together? Check. The Grammys have lame host and presenters? Check. The Grammys award crassly commercial successes that people can't stand by the time the awards roll around? Check. The Grammys ... well, you get the idea. S.O.S.
I don't mind "Stan", it's like a really deep song for disaffected teenagers. As an adult I'm immune, but hey, it's not for me. I thought Elton doing Dido's part was odd, and the laid-back performance by Eminem on his own work was a bit of a contrast. Apparently some people really liked it, though.
posted by dhartung at 1:33 PM on February 22, 2001
I don't mind "Stan", it's like a really deep song for disaffected teenagers. As an adult I'm immune, but hey, it's not for me. I thought Elton doing Dido's part was odd, and the laid-back performance by Eminem on his own work was a bit of a contrast. Apparently some people really liked it, though.
posted by dhartung at 1:33 PM on February 22, 2001
Seeing U2 back in '86 or so on "The Joshua Tree" tour there were four guys on stage playing their instruments, getting into the music, being themselves. Flash forward to the Zoo TV tour. The same four guys are playing along to sequenced tracks, video screens...Bono is suddenly a "rock star" and he knows it....they weren't into the typical rock gimmicks
Does it matter that they were being "rock star"s and doing "rock gimmicks" ironically? :)
Nah, I'm teasing, but it's funny, because I love the 90s put-on-a-show U2 much better. The fancy showmanship, video screens, sequenced tracks all make it much more entertaining. Maybe it wasn't authentic, but how "authentic" and true-to-your-music can you really be playing to a crowd of 20,000? ZooTV and PopMart were awesome. Not just gimmicky cheesy stuff like the 70s and 80s show-rockers... but again, that's a matter of personal taste.
But I tend to separate the live act from the albums, maybe because I'm too cheap to go to many concerts. I mean, you have to, otherwise, the Beatles were nothing after August 29, 1966. :) In my opinion, the music improved after Rattle and Hum (Pop and the new album are kind of hit-and-miss, though).
I agree with you that much of Pop is pretty lame, but there are some truly great songs on there. Anyway... I still think "Beautiful Day" deserved the Grammys, so nyah! :)
posted by daveadams at 2:28 PM on February 22, 2001
Does it matter that they were being "rock star"s and doing "rock gimmicks" ironically? :)
Nah, I'm teasing, but it's funny, because I love the 90s put-on-a-show U2 much better. The fancy showmanship, video screens, sequenced tracks all make it much more entertaining. Maybe it wasn't authentic, but how "authentic" and true-to-your-music can you really be playing to a crowd of 20,000? ZooTV and PopMart were awesome. Not just gimmicky cheesy stuff like the 70s and 80s show-rockers... but again, that's a matter of personal taste.
But I tend to separate the live act from the albums, maybe because I'm too cheap to go to many concerts. I mean, you have to, otherwise, the Beatles were nothing after August 29, 1966. :) In my opinion, the music improved after Rattle and Hum (Pop and the new album are kind of hit-and-miss, though).
I agree with you that much of Pop is pretty lame, but there are some truly great songs on there. Anyway... I still think "Beautiful Day" deserved the Grammys, so nyah! :)
posted by daveadams at 2:28 PM on February 22, 2001
Hmm, I didn't find it laid back at all. If anything it was more aggresive than on the cd. I should know, I've heard it 20 million times:)
posted by gtr at 2:28 PM on February 22, 2001
posted by gtr at 2:28 PM on February 22, 2001
but AB has no "disco" on it
I don't see how anyone in their right musical mind can deny that the riff in "Dangerous Ways" is pure disco, especially as employed at the beginning of the verse which ends in "If you wanna kiss the sky. . ." It's straight up, 1970's, Chic-inspired, bring the funk discotheque.
But that's another topic for another thread. I apologise for the brief digression.
posted by Dreama at 3:08 PM on February 22, 2001
I don't see how anyone in their right musical mind can deny that the riff in "Dangerous Ways" is pure disco, especially as employed at the beginning of the verse which ends in "If you wanna kiss the sky. . ." It's straight up, 1970's, Chic-inspired, bring the funk discotheque.
But that's another topic for another thread. I apologise for the brief digression.
posted by Dreama at 3:08 PM on February 22, 2001
They don't call them the "Grannies" for nothing.
Steely Dan rock, by the way, smart, oblique, layers. Kid Charlemange is one of my top 20 pop songs. Napster it today. Steely Dan have also seem to get the web.
And quit comparing Steely Dan to Jethro Tull. Jethro Tull are as overblown as all get out. The current overblown art band that replaces Tull is Radiohead. Also overrated.
Eminem - it's never been clearer to me that Vanilla Ice + 2 Live Crew = Eminem. Eminem is irrelevant.
And Baha Men are the ultimate expression of rock/pop. Sucks, don't it.
posted by artlung at 6:47 PM on February 22, 2001
Steely Dan rock, by the way, smart, oblique, layers. Kid Charlemange is one of my top 20 pop songs. Napster it today. Steely Dan have also seem to get the web.
And quit comparing Steely Dan to Jethro Tull. Jethro Tull are as overblown as all get out. The current overblown art band that replaces Tull is Radiohead. Also overrated.
Eminem - it's never been clearer to me that Vanilla Ice + 2 Live Crew = Eminem. Eminem is irrelevant.
And Baha Men are the ultimate expression of rock/pop. Sucks, don't it.
posted by artlung at 6:47 PM on February 22, 2001
Dreama:
I'd guess that the Mysterious Ways riff sounds disco-esque (means 'in the manner of disco' and looks like discotheque) because Edge is (probably; it might be a phaser) using a wah pedal over the power chords and distortion. Wah pedals are great for the disco-esque sound. (An inventory of Edge's effects)
In the opinion of some innocent bystanders here who just listened to 'Mysterious Ways' at my demand, the 'bass and drum' feel to the sound is pretty disco-esque too.
Wah pedal, bass, and drums. What more do you need for a disco sound?
[All apologies for the serious topic drift that I am contributing to.]
posted by iceberg273 at 9:16 AM on February 23, 2001
I'd guess that the Mysterious Ways riff sounds disco-esque (means 'in the manner of disco' and looks like discotheque) because Edge is (probably; it might be a phaser) using a wah pedal over the power chords and distortion. Wah pedals are great for the disco-esque sound. (An inventory of Edge's effects)
In the opinion of some innocent bystanders here who just listened to 'Mysterious Ways' at my demand, the 'bass and drum' feel to the sound is pretty disco-esque too.
Wah pedal, bass, and drums. What more do you need for a disco sound?
[All apologies for the serious topic drift that I am contributing to.]
posted by iceberg273 at 9:16 AM on February 23, 2001
Eminem - it's never been clearer to me that Vanilla Ice + 2 Live Crew = Eminem. Eminem is irrelevant.
Sorry, but that statement is complete ignorance.
He may be irrelevant, that's a matter of opinion, but to say he has no more talent as vanilla ice or two live crew is laughable.
posted by gtr at 2:32 PM on February 23, 2001
Sorry, but that statement is complete ignorance.
He may be irrelevant, that's a matter of opinion, but to say he has no more talent as vanilla ice or two live crew is laughable.
posted by gtr at 2:32 PM on February 23, 2001
Then there are those of us who think the words "rap" and "talent" have no place complimenting each other in the same sentence...
Just another awards show handing out awards to vapid pop drivel and overrated "unique" acts. Why, oh why are musical standards so much lower these days?
posted by Spirit_VW at 11:42 PM on February 23, 2001
Just another awards show handing out awards to vapid pop drivel and overrated "unique" acts. Why, oh why are musical standards so much lower these days?
posted by Spirit_VW at 11:42 PM on February 23, 2001
Two words for you, bub: The Carpenters.
It ain't never been any better than this.
posted by kindall at 2:24 AM on February 24, 2001
It ain't never been any better than this.
posted by kindall at 2:24 AM on February 24, 2001
"rap" and "talent" have no place in the same sentence
How lucky for people like you, then, that radio in the U.S (and to a lesser extent musical genres in general) is one of the last bastions of racial segregation. I particularly like The Onion's AV Club's take on racism in radio.
posted by sudama at 9:04 AM on February 24, 2001
How lucky for people like you, then, that radio in the U.S (and to a lesser extent musical genres in general) is one of the last bastions of racial segregation. I particularly like The Onion's AV Club's take on racism in radio.
posted by sudama at 9:04 AM on February 24, 2001
« Older Coming soon to your Nintendo: | Geez this sounds familiar. Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
and when did paul simon start writing crappy lounge music? (don't get me wrong here: i like paul simon, and lounge music. but that song that he played was some crappy lounge music....)
posted by mmanning at 11:52 PM on February 21, 2001