California isn't a paradise---especially if you're a Pomo tribe member.....
April 4, 2007 12:45 AM Subscribe
White Americans are still whitewashing their past treatment of native Americans. And don't get the idea that tribes of California were better treated than others. If you want to hear a real horror story, read about the Bloody Island Massacre of 1850. In case you're wondering, the name of the notorious murderer and rapist Andrew Kelsey, the man who helped precipitate this atrocity, is still attached to the town of Kelseyville--the remaining Pomo of Lake County have successfully forced Kelseyville High School to change their team mascot, but have not been able to change the name of the town.
Yes, the massacre was more than 150 years ago. Bear in mind, things like this can fester for centuries. Look at the mess that was once Yugoslavia. (I only bring all this up because there's still no Wikipedia entry for the massacre, and there really should be. It was an important event in California history. I'm too busy to create one right now---any volunteers?)
Yes, the massacre was more than 150 years ago. Bear in mind, things like this can fester for centuries. Look at the mess that was once Yugoslavia. (I only bring all this up because there's still no Wikipedia entry for the massacre, and there really should be. It was an important event in California history. I'm too busy to create one right now---any volunteers?)
This post was deleted for the following reason: this is not a good post to metafilter. -- jessamyn
This is an appalling post. Says all the wrong things about its subject. Reduces the plight of an entire people to a may do saturday project. It needs to be flagged. But I'm too busy to flag it right now--any volunteers?
posted by seanyboy at 12:56 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by seanyboy at 12:56 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Alright metasonix. I will do it. I volunteer. I will write your wikipedia entry!
posted by ageispolis at 1:10 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by ageispolis at 1:10 AM on April 4, 2007
Bear in mind, things like this can fester for centuries. Look at the mess that was once Yugoslavia.
Maybe you could be a little more clear about this because it doesn't make any sense and I think you're a crazy person.
posted by cmonkey at 1:11 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Maybe you could be a little more clear about this because it doesn't make any sense and I think you're a crazy person.
posted by cmonkey at 1:11 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Pomo tribe member? We're not having another run through neo-primitivism are we?
posted by Abiezer at 1:13 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Abiezer at 1:13 AM on April 4, 2007
At first I read that as... "especially if you are a Porno tribe member..." Their reservation is located in a warehouse in North Hollywood, right?
posted by miss lynnster at 1:14 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by miss lynnster at 1:14 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
White Americans are still whitewashing their past treatment of native Americans.
I have never treated a native American poorly. Fuckwad.
posted by jeblis at 1:14 AM on April 4, 2007
I have never treated a native American poorly. Fuckwad.
posted by jeblis at 1:14 AM on April 4, 2007
You owe us reparations for this post.
posted by Optamystic at 1:29 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 1:29 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
This FPP reminds me of that episode of American Dad when a white guy gives a lecture to Steve's school during Black History Month and chastises them by screaming "So the next time you privileged suburban white boys think that Beethoven wasn't black, MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK IN THE MIRROR!"
As Steve said, I dunno what this guy is talking about, but I feel terrible.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:32 AM on April 4, 2007
As Steve said, I dunno what this guy is talking about, but I feel terrible.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:32 AM on April 4, 2007
At first I read that as... "especially if you are a Porno tribe member..."
I have this problem with Lucida Grande constantly.
posted by phaedon at 1:33 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
I have this problem with Lucida Grande constantly.
posted by phaedon at 1:33 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
Last time I checked, Andrew Jackson was still on the $20 bill.
posted by Poagao at 1:37 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Poagao at 1:37 AM on April 4, 2007
Few people remember that Oklahoma City used to be known as Hitlerville.
posted by 2sheets at 1:50 AM on April 4, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by 2sheets at 1:50 AM on April 4, 2007 [4 favorites]
This FPP needs a casino.
posted by three blind mice at 1:59 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by three blind mice at 1:59 AM on April 4, 2007
"I only bring all this up because there's still no Wikipedia entry for the massacre, and there really should be."
Yes, that's what the atrocity you mentioned needs. An article on an online encyclopedia that anyone can edit which will no doubt be full of unchecked, unreferenced facts and assumptions.
This FPP is a stub. You can help Metafilter by thinking twice before posting drivel like this again.
posted by Second Account For Making Jokey Comments at 2:04 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yes, that's what the atrocity you mentioned needs. An article on an online encyclopedia that anyone can edit which will no doubt be full of unchecked, unreferenced facts and assumptions.
This FPP is a stub. You can help Metafilter by thinking twice before posting drivel like this again.
posted by Second Account For Making Jokey Comments at 2:04 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
When I found this map, I was struck by a haunting sense of a world that had been swept away. A whole continent of people and history, erased in the space of just a few years.
The whole of America is soaked in the blood of the recently dead. Living in a society founded upon such slaughter and theft must be a profoundly dislocating experience.
posted by mr. strange at 2:17 AM on April 4, 2007
The whole of America is soaked in the blood of the recently dead. Living in a society founded upon such slaughter and theft must be a profoundly dislocating experience.
posted by mr. strange at 2:17 AM on April 4, 2007
Alright, it's a bad FPP, but this OTT defensive anger is pretty absurd.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:20 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:20 AM on April 4, 2007
Mr. strange - The whole of the world is soaked in the blood of the dead. Except Antarctia, I guess. But give us time.
posted by Justinian at 2:28 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Justinian at 2:28 AM on April 4, 2007
Living in a society founded upon such slaughter and theft must be a profoundly dislocating experience.
I get the feeling you live in the UK, so I'd imagine you already know what that experience feels like.
posted by cmonkey at 2:29 AM on April 4, 2007
I get the feeling you live in the UK, so I'd imagine you already know what that experience feels like.
posted by cmonkey at 2:29 AM on April 4, 2007
Frankly, I don't think about it much. And neither do most of you, either, so don't feel too superior.
posted by Justinian at 2:39 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Justinian at 2:39 AM on April 4, 2007
The whole of America is soaked in the blood of the recently dead. Living in a society founded upon such slaughter and theft must be a profoundly dislocating experience.
Hah. That made me laugh.
ouch! my ankle.
posted by phaedon at 2:40 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Hah. That made me laugh.
ouch! my ankle.
posted by phaedon at 2:40 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
But give us time.
Nope. Not even Antartica.
posted by three blind mice at 2:40 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Nope. Not even Antartica.
posted by three blind mice at 2:40 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
The only people that can hang their head high in this thread is Canadian's and if that is not enough reason for it to be deleted - I don't know what is.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 2:40 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Samuel Farrow at 2:40 AM on April 4, 2007
I see where it's coming from though, wemayfreeze. See here's the thing... it's probably not a great plan to: a) start out a post meant to educate people about a tragically racist piece of American history by sounding unnecessarily hostile towards a race and the state of California (ALL white Californians do not fit his description); b) ask people if they want to hear a horror story after doing so (less likely to say yes); c) flippantly make a comparison to Yugoslavia, which is a VERY different and far more complex & ancient kettle of tragic fish, velika hvala; & d) then announce that the ONLY reason you are even telling the story is to find someone who will write a Wikipedia entry for you because you're too lazy.
I clicked the links & it's a pretty interesting story. The oddly uncomfortable way the story was presented definitely turned me off at first though. I think that's what people are reacting to.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:47 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
I clicked the links & it's a pretty interesting story. The oddly uncomfortable way the story was presented definitely turned me off at first though. I think that's what people are reacting to.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:47 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
The whole of America is soaked in the blood of the recently dead.
That's why I profoundly dislocated to England.
posted by Optamystic at 3:03 AM on April 4, 2007
That's why I profoundly dislocated to England.
posted by Optamystic at 3:03 AM on April 4, 2007
Interesting post about a subject I knew nothing about. Thanks!
Also interesting in terms of California-not-being-a-Paradise is this recent article from the Exile’s War Nerd.
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 3:09 AM on April 4, 2007
Also interesting in terms of California-not-being-a-Paradise is this recent article from the Exile’s War Nerd.
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 3:09 AM on April 4, 2007
if you look at it from a quality-control perspective, the only thing more ridiculous than self-linking in an FPP is posting personal conclusions without any external reference. in this case, a sprinkle of historical links about bloody island serve as the backdrop for the relatively unsubstantiated claim that white americans are whitewashing this event from history because there isn't a link in wikipedia about it. i mean, really. not to mention that "whitewashing history" and "changing the name of Kelseyville to something else that wont remind us of the past" --- are mutually exclusive courses of action.
posted by phaedon at 3:10 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by phaedon at 3:10 AM on April 4, 2007
I'm part white, part Native American* and 100 percent Oklahoman. I'm not sure whether I should be hating myself right now or what.
As Sarah Vowell says, if you're born in Oklahoma, it comes with the, uhhh, territory.
posted by Brittanie at 3:12 AM on April 4, 2007
As Sarah Vowell says, if you're born in Oklahoma, it comes with the, uhhh, territory.
posted by Brittanie at 3:12 AM on April 4, 2007
Oh comeon... anyone who's writing from Fresno is not going to act like California is paradise. I mean... they're in FRESNO. Ganstas riot at the BestBuys there.
posted by miss lynnster at 3:16 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 3:16 AM on April 4, 2007
That's a joke, people.
posted by miss lynnster at 3:19 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 3:19 AM on April 4, 2007
Look at the mess that was once Yugoslavia. Yes, that's what Native Americans need! A Dayton Accord! Paging Richard Holbrooke! Paging Richard Holbrooke on the white courtesy phone!
posted by DenOfSizer at 3:23 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by DenOfSizer at 3:23 AM on April 4, 2007
MeFites are still neglecting to link when they bring something to MetaTalk.
posted by mistersix at 3:36 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by mistersix at 3:36 AM on April 4, 2007
White Americans are still whitewashing their past treatment of native Americans.
Hasn't every culture treated some other culture bad at some point in history? I mean even Sweden has a bloody history. Considering no one alive was around to persecute 19th century cultures, they aren't to blame.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 3:36 AM on April 4, 2007
Hasn't every culture treated some other culture bad at some point in history? I mean even Sweden has a bloody history. Considering no one alive was around to persecute 19th century cultures, they aren't to blame.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 3:36 AM on April 4, 2007
Oops, thank you Mr. 6. It was going to either be deleted or end up there at some point.
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 3:40 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 3:40 AM on April 4, 2007
Hasn't every culture treated some other culture bad at some point in history?Where with ‘treat bad’ I read ‘massacring, or enslaving’ some exceptions are the Finns and the Icelanders. The Swiss have been mostly okay, but the sterilising-the-Roma thing in the sixties was stomach-turning. The Basques have never, to my knowledge, subjugated or massacred another culture as a collective. Certainly, most cultures have terrible episodes in their history, but that doesn’t lead to those episodes being not worth knowing about and not worth being ashamed of.
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 3:49 AM on April 4, 2007
"Today someone told me that she shoved an egg up her vagina"
One can only hope it wasn't an ostrich egg.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:13 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
One can only hope it wasn't an ostrich egg.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:13 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
The Swiss have been mostly okay, but the sterilising-the-Roma thing in the sixties was stomach-turning.
Of course, there was that whole thing about Switzerland financially facilitating the activities of the Third Reich.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 4:17 AM on April 4, 2007
Of course, there was that whole thing about Switzerland financially facilitating the activities of the Third Reich.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 4:17 AM on April 4, 2007
Of course, there was that whole thing about Switzerland financially facilitating the activities of the Third Reich.
Or the whole "The boat is full" jolliness, turning Jews away at the border to almost certain death.
But yeah, metasonix: gyobfw
posted by slater at 5:01 AM on April 4, 2007
Or the whole "The boat is full" jolliness, turning Jews away at the border to almost certain death.
But yeah, metasonix: gyobfw
posted by slater at 5:01 AM on April 4, 2007
Free Leonard Peltier
Only one left in stock! Order now and mail in your completed rebate form by 30/04/2007!
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 AM on April 4, 2007
Only one left in stock! Order now and mail in your completed rebate form by 30/04/2007!
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 AM on April 4, 2007
Or the whole "The boat is full" jolliness, turning Jews away at the border to almost certain death.Oh come on. After the extremes of propaganda of World War I scepticism about the Holocaust was not groundless, and it was only on the liberation of Bergen-Belsen that its existence and extent became clear to the entire world.
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 5:11 AM on April 4, 2007
A badly constructed FPP does not mean that the United States government did not commit and support a genocidal war against the indigenous peoples of North America. "Everybody does it" does not excuse that.
And way worse things happened in California, and later.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:31 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
And way worse things happened in California, and later.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:31 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Optamystic said:
'That's why I profoundly dislocated to England.'
And here I thought I was the only one. It certainly feels that way some days.
**
Oh, wait; I'm supposed to reply to metasonix... so, here goes:
Dear metasonix,
Hi, I'm new here. I just paid my £2.50 and joined up so I could join the fun over in the old Phelps thread. I would like to sincerely thank you for clarifying what an FPP is.
Cheers.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:42 AM on April 4, 2007
'That's why I profoundly dislocated to England.'
And here I thought I was the only one. It certainly feels that way some days.
**
Oh, wait; I'm supposed to reply to metasonix... so, here goes:
Dear metasonix,
Hi, I'm new here. I just paid my £2.50 and joined up so I could join the fun over in the old Phelps thread. I would like to sincerely thank you for clarifying what an FPP is.
Cheers.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:42 AM on April 4, 2007
Please tell me more about this "egg".
posted by LordSludge at 6:16 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by LordSludge at 6:16 AM on April 4, 2007
This egg, it vibrates?
posted by no, that other sockpuppet at 6:31 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by no, that other sockpuppet at 6:31 AM on April 4, 2007
I'M IN YR COUNTRY SOAKING IT WITH YR DEAD.
Dead Indians? You're soaking in them.
NOTE: Dead Indians unaffiliated with the Book of the Month Club or any cooker company.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:52 AM on April 4, 2007
Dead Indians? You're soaking in them.
NOTE: Dead Indians unaffiliated with the Book of the Month Club or any cooker company.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:52 AM on April 4, 2007
Yeah, they're scattered on god's highway bleeding.
posted by mygothlaundry at 7:20 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by mygothlaundry at 7:20 AM on April 4, 2007
I married a Native American so I'm better than all of you (so'd my dad, but she'll never be my real mom).
posted by Mick at 7:20 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Mick at 7:20 AM on April 4, 2007
White Americans are still whitewashing their past treatment of native Americans.
You know, I constantly whitewash my past treatment of native Americans.
Please, just tell the story of the massacre, don't be a tendentious twit.
posted by dhartung at 7:21 AM on April 4, 2007
You know, I constantly whitewash my past treatment of native Americans.
Please, just tell the story of the massacre, don't be a tendentious twit.
posted by dhartung at 7:21 AM on April 4, 2007
So, wait, is Nato going to bomb California?
posted by klangklangston at 7:36 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 7:36 AM on April 4, 2007
And the thought of "Pomo" indians makes me giggle.
posted by klangklangston at 7:37 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 7:37 AM on April 4, 2007
Oh come on. After the extremes of propaganda of World War I scepticism about the Holocaust was not groundless, and it was only on the liberation of Bergen-Belsen that its existence and extent became clear to the entire world.
Wait. What? Tell me you're not excusing what i think you're excusing.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:43 AM on April 4, 2007
Wait. What? Tell me you're not excusing what i think you're excusing.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:43 AM on April 4, 2007
It looks like he is excusing turning away refugees, or at least not equating turning away refugees with genocide. I'm in agreement on the latter if the Swiss really didn't know the hammer was coming down on the Jews.
posted by BrotherCaine at 7:45 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by BrotherCaine at 7:45 AM on April 4, 2007
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