NO ONE Expects the Fashion Inquisition!
May 4, 2007 1:56 PM   Subscribe

The crackdown on fashion in Iran is not limited to just women. You're under scrutiny as a man if you look "too western." Meanwhile, in the west, retailers are realizing there's a demographic they can market to even if it might be an affront to French fashion. If you're not a Muslim, what are your rights in an Islamic state?
posted by Eekacat (41 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Oh, and an Iranian Fashion show.
posted by Eekacat at 2:01 PM on May 4, 2007


Tie, suite, a shaved face - all of these things might or might not get you in trouble in Iran. It's quite sad to see people who travel to Iran by plane start to change their clothes as the plane approaches the air port.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 2:03 PM on May 4, 2007


Ahmadinejad's suits don't count as western?
posted by knave at 2:07 PM on May 4, 2007


More on Metafilter:
Muslim swimsuits
Documentary on a Kabul beauty academy

Islamic fashion has been a thing in Turkey for a while. The religious pressure to conform to modest standards mixed with the secular pressure to conform with Western fashion has produced some very lovely lines that are also quite modest.

However, the issue of commodifying faith is an interesting and tricky one. A girl in one of my classes often wears a Calvin Klein brand hijab--the CK is plastered all over it like a Coach bag. It is still modest in that it covers everything, but isn't modesty about discouraging vanity and cultivating humility, not just making sure your hair isn't showing. At what point does the fashion, designer-centric aspect of your dress defeat the purpose of wearing the hijab in the first place?

This is of course not a Muslim-centric issue. I ask myself the question whenever I see yet another diamond-encrusted crucifix or people paying extra to make sure their shirts or purses have crosses plastered all over them. Or watching megachurches attempt to draw in practicioners with gyms and convenience stores, rather than the thoughtfulness of their sermons and strength of their faith.
posted by Anonymous at 2:16 PM on May 4, 2007


[insert Malkinesque bloviating on dhimmitude for yuks]
posted by Falconetti at 2:16 PM on May 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


You're under scrutiny as a man if you look "too western."

Well, in all fairness, try wearing a Burka or Headdress in public here...
posted by Peter H at 2:20 PM on May 4, 2007 [6 favorites]


Natural fibres are a no-no. Unless there is a lightning storm of static emanating from your suit when you walk then you're liable for arrest.
posted by fire&wings at 2:34 PM on May 4, 2007


OK, it's perfectly possible to make a post about crackdowns on fashion in Iran without having a repellent LOLMUSLIMZ agenda... but your completely irrelevant "If you're not a Muslim" link makes me pretty confident of excluding that possibility. Compare "Here are some links about how Israel treats its Arab population. Oh, and by the way, did you know a bunch of Jews were murderous revolutionary Bolsheviks?"
posted by languagehat at 2:35 PM on May 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


Growing up as an American expat in the Middle East (Aramcons, represent), I know that I still, years later, don't feel comfortable wearing sleeveless shirts in public (and it is not just due to the sad state of my upper arms).

When we were off-compound, we were expected to dress modestly, which meant long sleeves, long pants, loose, baggy clothing, etc. I preferred wearing baseball caps as a young teenager, but a lot of expat wives wore the abaya without the face veil over long sleeves and t-shirts, just because it was easier and helped blend in.

It was always really, really easy to spot the expat wives who were New To Kingdom as they would make the critical mistake of going shopping in a miniskirt and tank top (who could blame them, with temps at 110 F), and we would all sort of watch, waiting for the Mutawaeen to show up.

I'm surprised it wasn't addressed that under the abayas, when the women are together away from the men, the women wear some of the most expensive designer clothing you could possibly imagine.
posted by mckenney at 2:36 PM on May 4, 2007


Ahmadinejad's suits don't count as western?

He makes a point of not wearing a tie.
posted by xthlc at 2:46 PM on May 4, 2007


>LOLMUSLIMZ agenda

Yeah, I'm not seeing this. And your analogy doesnt make sense. Islamic law dictates and enforces fashion standards. There's a direct relationship there.
posted by damn dirty ape at 2:56 PM on May 4, 2007


It's hard to give the Iranians shit about their government. In the US, we just had the Republican party presidential debates and pretty much all candidates confirmed their support for compromising women's reproductive rights using our country's legal system. Many also admitted they disagree with the scientific community about evolution. Our own president threatened to exercise veto power on legislation banning hate crimes against homosexuals. It would be his third (the first two were for stem cell research and a timetable for orderly withdrawal from the Iraqi civil war, respectively). Yes, lolrepublicanz, but let's not forget that these fuckers were in complete control of our country until very recently, and now they're only mostly in control.

Remove the plank from your own eye, etc.
posted by mullingitover at 3:16 PM on May 4, 2007


Watch this BBC documentary on Iran. You'd be surprised how blown out of proportion it is.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 3:24 PM on May 4, 2007


If we just leave Iran alone, I suspect things will eventually work out to our benefit . Younger Iranians crave our lifestyle. Iran will change from within if we allow it. Attacking and giving their young justification to hate us is not the way.
And for those who keep saying they will send a nuclear device over here, I would suggest their history is not indicative of Iran attacking other nations. What nation have they attacked in the last fifty years? Or one or two hundred years for that matter.
posted by notreally at 3:29 PM on May 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


I'm sorry, languagehat, if the relationship between my collection of links is incomprehensible to you. It is simply about the clash of cultures both in the west, where I live, and the Middle East. Perhaps the lightness of my title throws you off, and for that I'm sorry. Well, no, not really, I'm not. Your analogy is quite obtuse, and I generally think you're smarter than that. The last link being an analysis of Muslim law, and how it relates to non Muslims in an Islamic state is pretty directly related to how in the US Muslims are marketed to, and in France they are attempting to suppress them. Seems pretty obvious to me, but then you're trying to hang a "LOLMUSLIMZ agenda" on me for whatever reason.
posted by Eekacat at 3:30 PM on May 4, 2007


Hate crimes against homosexuals are already banned in the U.S.

Mmm, intellectual dishonesty.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:34 PM on May 4, 2007 [3 favorites]


The second last link is to answering-islam.org, which is a site run by a group of anonymous Evangelical Christians based on four sources analyzing historical religious texts. So yeah, its useful if you decide to travel back in time to an idealized (to some at least I guess) Islamic state, but relevance to modern Islamic republics is minimal.

The current facts in Iran are a lot different than what is outlined in this crappy piece, for example both Christians and Jews are law makers in the Iranian parliament, something that according to this piece shouldn't be allowed.
posted by bhouston at 3:47 PM on May 4, 2007


Am I the only one who noticed that the fashion cop in the second link is wearing a baseball hat? Even if that is just some unrelated photo, can anyone name an item of of clothing that is more American than a baseball hat?
posted by well_balanced at 3:49 PM on May 4, 2007


I meant the last link, not the second to last link. It is a crappy page, just read the conclusion on that page to understand that it is not written as an informative and balanced piece but as an Op-Ed or opinion piece pretending to be something else.
posted by bhouston at 3:53 PM on May 4, 2007


Wow, that article on the modest-dress fashion seminar was astoundingly... what's the word I'm looking for? Subjective? Slanted?
posted by thehmsbeagle at 4:00 PM on May 4, 2007


Pretty fucking ridiculous beat-up of an article from the BBC. Men in Iran dress in a very standard, conservative-western way: trousers, collared shirts, suits. No different to anywhere in the west, except that things like bare legs & singlets are a no-no. I can imagine that dreadlocks & mohawks are out, too, but you don't really see too many people trying to push that envelope.

The women are wonderful, though. In sophisticated, urban places like Tehran & Esfahan, they'll push their headscarves back as far as hejably possible, be immaculately made up, and with the highest rate of plastic surgery in the world, placed on top of classical Persian beauty, it's quite a nice place to wander around.

What I don't get, though, is the famous Shiraz monobrow, and the whole bushy eyebrow thing, in general.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:11 PM on May 4, 2007


Not all Musilim nations are as strict as others; from my dim childhood memories of the '80s, I recall travelling from Singapore to resorts in Malaysia, and seeing plenty of western-style bikini's on the beach.
posted by nomisxid at 4:22 PM on May 4, 2007


The World Famous writes "Yes, pretending that hate crime legislation is necessary is definitely intellectually dishonest."

As long as you agree that 'terrorism' is an empty term, and 'terrorists' should be treated the same as ordinary criminals, then you are being logically consistent and I can respect your opinion on this. The goals of hate crimes are, after all, the same as the goals of terrorism.
posted by mullingitover at 4:59 PM on May 4, 2007


My experiences have mostly been in Turkey, Egypt & Malaysia so far. In Egypt, men who aren't in gallibayas are often dressed pretty western. Not all women wear headscarves or full islamic dress, but many do. A couple of the women I saw in Alexandria in full dress were wearing more makeup than a Paris hooker -- which kinda freaked me out. Underneath the hems of their dress, you could see sparkly shoes and designer jeans. They clearly wear what they want to at home.

In Turkey, the uniform for most men I saw was a western suit, usually brown or blue, with a white shirt. I asked my friend Nuri in Pammukale why he was wearing a suit even though he had not job and was just sitting around his cousin's office. He told me that Turkish men wear suits because "it is impressive to others. It makes us look manly."

I saw a lot more western dress in Turkey, especially in Istanbul but also throughout my other travels there. Headscarves are supposed to be frowned upon but some women do still wear them. They are trying to join the EU and my impression was that they really want to be thought of as Western.

In Malaysia I saw some headscarves, I do remember that. I noticed it more in KL than in other places though.

As usual, YMMV.
posted by miss lynnster at 5:26 PM on May 4, 2007


not job = no job
posted by miss lynnster at 5:26 PM on May 4, 2007


Well, in all fairness, try wearing a Burka or Headdress in public here...

...where a violent, lawless, state-sponsored religious police will have their way with you? I'd better go warn all those Muslim women wearing burkas and headdresses outside that they are in danger!


Mmm, intellectual dishonesty.

Mmm, derailing, dodging the issue, *and* playing the "b-b-but the US is so much more evil than Iran" card in one go.
posted by Krrrlson at 5:31 PM on May 4, 2007 [1 favorite]


The current facts in Iran are a lot different than what is outlined in this crappy piece, for example both Christians and Jews are law makers in the Iranian parliament, something that according to this piece shouldn't be allowed.

Good to point out that the last piece was written by evangelicals in disguise, but this comment isn't exactly correct, either. Sure, there is a required Jewish member of parliment, but, according to the State Department:
By law and practice, religious minorities are not allowed to be elected to a representative body or to hold senior government or military positions, with the exception that 5 of a total 270 seats in the majlis are reserved for religious minorities. Three of these seats are reserved for members of the Christian faith, including two seats for the country's Armenian Christians, and one for Assyrians and Chaldeans. There is also one seat for a member of the Jewish faith, and one for a member of the Zoroastrian faith. ... All of the minority religious groups, including Sunni Muslims, were barred from being elected president.

All religious minorities suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing. ...Non-Muslims may not engage in public religious expression and persuasion among Muslims, and there are restrictions on published religious material.

Members of religious minorities, excluding Sunni Muslims, were prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school principals. Applicants for public sector employment were screened for their adherence to and knowledge of Islam, although members of religious minorities could serve in lower ranks of government employment, with the exception of Baha'is. Government workers who did not observe Islam's principles and rules were subject to penalties..
This is not LOLIRAN, but, still, glorifying religious freedom vs. the United States seems ridiculous.
posted by blahblahblah at 6:04 PM on May 4, 2007


Mmm, derailing, dodging the issue, *and* playing the "b-b-but the US is so much more evil than Iran" card in one go.

What are you even talking about? My comment had nothing to do with Iran. Of course, I'm a leftist, so I think the US is worse than homicidal theocracies that brutally murder human beings because they fail to conform to a holiness code, right? That's what crazy leftists like me all believe, right?

My comment had nothing whatsoever to do with geopolitics, no matter how much you apparently have a deep-seated need for it to, and everything to do with the fact that the opposition to hate crimes laws is misguided and privileged at best and deeply malicious at worst. I'm sorry if my comment, and the meaning of it, fails to advance whatever half-baked point you're trying to make ("LOLLEFTISTS" or something, I'm sure). But that's your problem and not mine, and I resent you trying to make it mine.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:59 PM on May 4, 2007


Such a pussyfooted headline in the NYT: "In Iran, Tactics of Fashion Police Raise Concerns"

How about "In Iran, outrage at totalitarianism continues to simmer away"
posted by dydecker at 7:29 PM on May 4, 2007


I mean surely there is a group of ordinary people, not religious nutjobs or their apologists, who must be incredibly pissed off that their govt is making people walk around dressed like nuns? My sympathies lies with them.
posted by dydecker at 7:33 PM on May 4, 2007


I want to be nude sometimes
posted by longsleeves at 10:22 PM on May 4, 2007


The fact that we are legally required to wear clothes at all is sort of ridiculous.
posted by tehloki at 1:07 AM on May 5, 2007


It is simply about the clash of cultures both in the west, where I live, and the Middle East.

Wow, that's your idea of a good MeFi post? You must have been the kind of student who did papers on "Democracy: pluses and minuses" or "Is life worth living? Philosophers give different answers." Didn't your teachers ever tell you to focus?

Islamic law dictates and enforces fashion standards.

Islamic law about treatment of non-Muslims? I don't think so. I think this post is another exercise in "look at them nasty evil Muslim Iranians" and everything was grist for the mill. We've done "Muslim fashion" a zillion times around here, so there's nothing new about that. There are a lot of problems in Iran, as in every other country, but I'm pretty sick of MeFites treating it as nothing more than an excuse to rant about half-digested gobbets of "news" stories presenting an endless parade of exotic weirdness. Does it ever occur to you that the Western media promoting these stories might have an agenda? But carry on. I'm not sorry this got posted, because I got to read this astonishing comment:

It was always really, really easy to spot the expat wives who were New To Kingdom as they would make the critical mistake of going shopping in a miniskirt and tank top (who could blame them, with temps at 110 F), and we would all sort of watch, waiting for the Mutawaeen to show up.

Didn't anybody tell these idiots before they showed up in the single most conservative Islamic country in the world that they shouldn't go shopping in a miniskirt and tank top?? Did they think they were in a mall in Texas? People never cease to amaze me.
posted by languagehat at 6:03 AM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]


Y'know languagehat, my astonishment on the western vs. islamic dress shock is with you, actually.

I'm someone who's always tried to dress according to the local cultures out of respect. I learned this the hard way after going to Dia de los Muertos in Oaxaca when I was 22 wearing a short skirt. Last year in Egypt, I tried to take everything into consideration. I brought long skirts instead of jeans and lots of clothes to layer. When I was in the car or indoors I would take off layers and wear short sleeves. When we went out I found that people were VERY appreciative that I was thoughtful enough to cover my arms and stuff. It made people more comfortable, so I was happy to. At times I saw tourists wearing spaghetti strap tops with miniskirts and honestly, it's just not appropriate. To be honest, after looking around I decided that it would be nice if some of those people NEVER wore those outfits, even in America.

After I got home, I was talking to a woman at a dinner party and she was telling me about how she had gone to Egypt & hated it. I asked why. She said, "I was walking around in my bathing suit and everyone was staring at me. I felt very unsafe." I asked if they touched her or said anything to her. She said no. I asked if she was at the pool when it happened. She said no, that she was walking back to her hotel. I asked her if she considered covering up because she's in a culture where people are more modest. She said, "No, why should I have to? I should be able to wear a bathing suit whenever I want." I asked her if she wore her bathing suit to the dentist's office or in the supermarket here if it would seem appropriate. She said, "That's not the point. They were staring. I was in danger."

About a month after that conversation, I met a guy who told me that "When women wear a headscarf in my country it's a personal affront to me." This guy was really adamant about this. I asked him why it was his business if someone wore a scarf or wore jogging pants or whatever. He said, "Because you're in our country so you have to live by our rules. We're in charge, and we don't wear towels here." Yeah, so that was our first & last date.

I've had these conversations swimming around my brain for a while now, and before going to Islamic countries I probably would've just ignored them. But now it's harder to. There are a lot of things I observe now that I didn't used to.

When I was in LA a few weeks ago, as I was driving around the Fairfax district, I passed a very busy Chabad. For blocks & blocks, there were hasidic people with strollers and children. The men with the curls, the women with their wigs, scarfs & hats on. I suddenly realized... nobody was staring at them. In my 18 years in LA I never heard one person talk about how these Jewish women shouldn't be wearing wigs or hats or scarfs. Never heard anyone say that they are repressed. But I heard quite a few people make those comments about Muslim women, and the Muslim women in Los Angeles aren't dressed half as conspicuously as the hasidic community.

Although they are obviously different, the two cultures are from the same regions and do have similarities regarding modesty. Admittedly LA is filled with a lot of Jewish people, so you are kind of trained to feel a sympathy with the people in the Fairfax district that is the opposite of what is implied for the Muslims, despite their similarities. Nobody in LA EVER EVER EVER tells the hasidic Jews to act like they're in America. Instead, they are seen kind of as a quaint blast from the old world that wander the streets.

I DEFINITELY don't want to go into a LOLJEWISHMODESTYGOOD/MUSLIMMODESTYBAD thing. I had just never considered that comparison before or really thought about it.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:27 AM on May 5, 2007 [2 favorites]


Nobody in LA EVER EVER EVER tells the hasidic Jews to act like they're in America.

Maybe that's because they have no history of blowing up pizza parlors or hijacking airplanes, so they're being cut a bit more slack.
posted by sour cream at 10:11 AM on May 5, 2007


In 1987 when I moved to Los Angeles there was no history of Muslims blowing up pizza parlors. And furthermore, of the 87 hijackings between 1993 and 1997, only seven, that is less than 10 per cent, were terrorism-motivated. And most of those weren't Muslim. Actually, quite a few were sikh. More often than not, hijackings are committed by unstable individuals much like the kind that we have here in America shooting up schools & post-offices. But I guess we can't make a post about how unstable people dress so let's just LOLMUSLIMZ.

So when you feel like not sounding like an idiot who's just trying to throw an assy attitude around, let me know.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:29 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry for losing my ladylike composure, but people who act like everyone who wears a headscarf or is Muslim is an evil doer... & the people who make excuses for that ignorance as though it is acceptable... just sicken me.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:33 PM on May 5, 2007


LOL people talking like that about Iran or any other muslim country never gone there.

Go to Morocco and see if jews are a second class citizens.
posted by zouhair at 12:58 PM on May 5, 2007


...everything to do with the fact that the opposition to hate crimes laws is misguided and privileged at best and deeply malicious at worst.

Blanket characterizations flung at anyone who might disagree with you does not an argument make.
posted by kid ichorous at 3:19 PM on May 5, 2007


From one of the articles:

Some young boys in Iran sport very wild hair styles, using gel to make their long hair stand on end in a fashion not seen in other countries.

They left off "since the '80s."
posted by davejay at 7:42 PM on May 5, 2007




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