Let's spend some time together, Tori.
May 5, 2007 8:53 PM Subscribe
Tori Amos changes "MILF" to "MILX" for her recent Letterman appearance. Her new song "Big Wheel" ends with a refrain of "I am an M-I-L-F," but careful listening to the performance suggests that she changed the "F" to an "X" - and perhaps slurred it a little to conceal the fact that the change had been made. Was this a quiet example of giving in to the television morality police, or an artistic statement of another sort?
Isn't referring to yourself as a MILF grammatically incorrect anyhow? Wouldn't that be MYLF?
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 8:58 PM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 8:58 PM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]
For Tori, Mom I'd Love to eXterminate would be far more fitting than the F alternative... (((shiver)))
posted by acetonic at 9:00 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by acetonic at 9:00 PM on May 5, 2007
Christ; who the fuck cares? And jbickers, how old are you anyway, that you think this is of some importance at all?
posted by yhbc at 9:03 PM on May 5, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 9:03 PM on May 5, 2007 [5 favorites]
I love the cranky old yhbc.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:07 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:07 PM on May 5, 2007
He's the CILF btw lol
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:07 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:07 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
kaseijin writes "Maybe she just got it mixed up? After all, she kant read..."
This comment is awesome. That is all.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:08 PM on May 5, 2007
This comment is awesome. That is all.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:08 PM on May 5, 2007
Best of the WILF.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:17 PM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:17 PM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]
With regards to Tori Amos' bastardization of Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit.
"That song is their song. And with every measure that I was putting down on tape, I was very clear that she was their baby. She just hung around with me for awhile like a friend. Seeing that there's another side to that male rage which was being expressed, because within all that male rage there's something ripped up. There's something sliced open. I mean that's obvious."
WHAT THE FUX IS SHE TALKING ABOUT?!
And what the hell is wrong with her nose?
posted by ZachsMind at 9:18 PM on May 5, 2007
"That song is their song. And with every measure that I was putting down on tape, I was very clear that she was their baby. She just hung around with me for awhile like a friend. Seeing that there's another side to that male rage which was being expressed, because within all that male rage there's something ripped up. There's something sliced open. I mean that's obvious."
WHAT THE FUX IS SHE TALKING ABOUT?!
And what the hell is wrong with her nose?
posted by ZachsMind at 9:18 PM on May 5, 2007
WHAT THE FUX IS SHE TALKING ABOUT?!
Just listen to the music. Or don't. All I know is if I acutally tried to parse her lyrics or words, I'd probably blow a fuse.
posted by eriko at 9:20 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Just listen to the music. Or don't. All I know is if I acutally tried to parse her lyrics or words, I'd probably blow a fuse.
posted by eriko at 9:20 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Have you listened to a lot of Tori?
The woman does really strange things to words when she sings. It's like she has an accent, but it is completely unique to her. It's entirely possible she was just being her bizarre Tori self, and pronouncing things in a very strange way.
It's kind of a shame that Tori has gone so far over into cloud cuckoo land. Little Earthquakes was amazing. Since then, while it's all still entertaining, it's just been getting more and more like crazy person music.
But if she's happy, more power to her. She is a MILF, although she looked weird on Letterman.
posted by teece at 9:22 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
The woman does really strange things to words when she sings. It's like she has an accent, but it is completely unique to her. It's entirely possible she was just being her bizarre Tori self, and pronouncing things in a very strange way.
It's kind of a shame that Tori has gone so far over into cloud cuckoo land. Little Earthquakes was amazing. Since then, while it's all still entertaining, it's just been getting more and more like crazy person music.
But if she's happy, more power to her. She is a MILF, although she looked weird on Letterman.
posted by teece at 9:22 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't care if she snuck "the holocaust didn't happen" into the refrain, ain't watchin'.
posted by Roman Graves at 9:30 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by Roman Graves at 9:30 PM on May 5, 2007
And what other sort of "artistic statement" would that be? Defying the alphabet? Being a total fucking nut?
Pepsi suck.
posted by Roman Graves at 9:36 PM on May 5, 2007
Pepsi suck.
posted by Roman Graves at 9:36 PM on May 5, 2007
if you enjoyed this post
posted by thirteenkiller
Or this one
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:36 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by thirteenkiller
Or this one
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:36 PM on May 5, 2007
It's the Fish Cheer all over again.
(Don't ask me, I don't give a damn)
posted by griphus at 9:37 PM on May 5, 2007
(Don't ask me, I don't give a damn)
posted by griphus at 9:37 PM on May 5, 2007
Aren't you supposed to be able to hear the piano? I mean, it is a concert grand.
posted by longsleeves at 9:40 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by longsleeves at 9:40 PM on May 5, 2007
Related musings from a TV standards & practices executive:
We have to keep a fairly young staff of people around to stay on top of those IM terms. We were looking at ratings recently and one of my staffers said, 'What were the numbers for the MILF group?' I didn't know it meant 'mothers I'd like to f---.' Show runners will rightfully say, 'I'm saying, 'She's fugly.' I'm not saying 'f---.' I'm not saying, 'She's f---ing ugly.'' But we don't allow fugly to air. I also didn't know what a camel toe was. My staff looked at me and said, 'I cannot believe you do this job and don't know what it is.'posted by brain_drain at 9:42 PM on May 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
Let's spend some time together.
Hey guys, do you think you could change that part to "Girl, we couldn't get much better?"
posted by First Post at 9:42 PM on May 5, 2007
Hey guys, do you think you could change that part to "Girl, we couldn't get much better?"
posted by First Post at 9:42 PM on May 5, 2007
It's kind of a shame that Tori has gone so far over into cloud cuckoo land. Little Earthquakes was amazing. Since then, while it's all still entertaining, it's just been getting more and more like crazy person music.
Well, Pele did feature some phenomenal orchestration and almost supernatural vocals, even if the lyrics were (as usual) effusive and intolerable.
But I'd disagree on her direction. As I see it, her latest outings haven't gone into "crazy" territory so much as they've been a jaunt to the mall, to the local Bed and Bath. Like that one about cruising around in her stupid Saab? Yeesh.
posted by kid ichorous at 9:53 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Well, Pele did feature some phenomenal orchestration and almost supernatural vocals, even if the lyrics were (as usual) effusive and intolerable.
But I'd disagree on her direction. As I see it, her latest outings haven't gone into "crazy" territory so much as they've been a jaunt to the mall, to the local Bed and Bath. Like that one about cruising around in her stupid Saab? Yeesh.
posted by kid ichorous at 9:53 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
I was saying "boourns".
posted by furtive at 10:02 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by furtive at 10:02 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
So, man, saw that new Spiderman movie tonight, and it was such a silly operetta, man. Like, that Spidey goes all emo in the middle? Like, fuckin' Fall Out Boy haircuts and black suit... It was pretty hilarious. Oh, and the great cameo by Bruce Campbell. That was nice. Also, Jesus was it gay— the last time there was that much barely-suppressed homoeroticism on screen was Fight Club.
By the way, your post sucks worse than the new Spiderman movie.
posted by klangklangston at 10:11 PM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]
By the way, your post sucks worse than the new Spiderman movie.
posted by klangklangston at 10:11 PM on May 5, 2007 [3 favorites]
I just wanna know what video has her driving around in a Saab.
(Saab owner/geek)
posted by The Deej at 10:16 PM on May 5, 2007
(Saab owner/geek)
posted by The Deej at 10:16 PM on May 5, 2007
I don't think that was Tori Amos. It was kind of fuzzy but it looked like Dennis Kucinich in a red wig to me. Who ever it was they belong under the mature heading, not milf.
posted by BostonJake at 10:20 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by BostonJake at 10:20 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it does sound like she did it. I have never been a fan of hers, but that is the best song I have ever heard her do. Nevertheless, Tori is not the Stones, so this is only mildly interesting news.
As for MILF being a naughty term, heh, I have seen shirts down the Shore sized for three to five year old girls which read "Future MILF." Who the f* would put that on their daughter? DYFUS should just set up shop next to the vendor and take the kids away from anyone who buys one. Yeah, get off my lawn, I've already released the hounds so you'd better hurry.
posted by caddis at 10:22 PM on May 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
As for MILF being a naughty term, heh, I have seen shirts down the Shore sized for three to five year old girls which read "Future MILF." Who the f* would put that on their daughter? DYFUS should just set up shop next to the vendor and take the kids away from anyone who buys one. Yeah, get off my lawn, I've already released the hounds so you'd better hurry.
posted by caddis at 10:22 PM on May 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
No.
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:23 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:23 PM on May 5, 2007
NO FILF ON T-VEE!
posted by delmoi at 10:52 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 10:52 PM on May 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm slightly surprised that this is only the second-ever post on Metafilter tagged with "MILF".
posted by tepidmonkey at 10:57 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by tepidmonkey at 10:57 PM on May 5, 2007
This might have been better if you'd included some of the links around her recent performance/visit with the kids at PS22 in New York.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9cAWly0gI&mode=related&search=
http://www.ps22chorus.blogspot.com/
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:15 PM on May 5, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9cAWly0gI&mode=related&search=
http://www.ps22chorus.blogspot.com/
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:15 PM on May 5, 2007
Er..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9cAWly0gI&mode=related&search=
http://www.ps22chorus.blogspot.com/
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:20 PM on May 5, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9cAWly0gI&mode=related&search=
http://www.ps22chorus.blogspot.com/
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:20 PM on May 5, 2007
As for MILF being a naughty term, heh, I have seen shirts down the Shore sized for three to five year old girls which read "Future MILF." Who the f* would put that on their daughter?
Parents who want to give their kids everything they never had, except the self-respect they don't even know they lack.
I'd bet good money that most of em don't vote, too.
posted by Clave at 11:26 PM on May 5, 2007
Parents who want to give their kids everything they never had, except the self-respect they don't even know they lack.
I'd bet good money that most of em don't vote, too.
posted by Clave at 11:26 PM on May 5, 2007
Fuck marks the spot.
posted by Falconetti at 11:36 PM on May 5, 2007
posted by Falconetti at 11:36 PM on May 5, 2007
I just wanna know what video has her driving around in a Saab.
That song hath no video, but if it did, this would be it: behold, the unclean.
posted by kid ichorous at 11:48 PM on May 5, 2007
That song hath no video, but if it did, this would be it: behold, the unclean.
posted by kid ichorous at 11:48 PM on May 5, 2007
I hate Tori Amos.
I hate Tori Amos with a burning pure flame of such volcanic antipathy that even if she made The Greatest Song Of All Time and the singing of that Song cured cancer and diabetes and world hunger and global warming, I'd still hate Tori Amos.
I hate Tori Amos.
Hate, hate, hate.
OK, I'll go now.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:11 AM on May 6, 2007
I hate Tori Amos with a burning pure flame of such volcanic antipathy that even if she made The Greatest Song Of All Time and the singing of that Song cured cancer and diabetes and world hunger and global warming, I'd still hate Tori Amos.
I hate Tori Amos.
Hate, hate, hate.
OK, I'll go now.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:11 AM on May 6, 2007
This I hate artist X thing is so funny. There are so many worthy of our loathing. Yet, in the real world, who really earns such hate? Kiss? Yes. They suck, suck and suck some more, yet somehow they bamboozled some twelve year old idiots into believing they were real rock and roll. They love only money, just listen to the interviews. They think their fans are chumps. Loathe them. Tori? She seems so harmless. Why would anybody hate her? (Why would anybody love her music is just as valid a Q.) So, hate? No. Could care less? Well, let's not say anything that isn't nice.
posted by caddis at 12:41 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by caddis at 12:41 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
This is going in the White Stripes thread, but hey, John Lee Hooker everywhere. 1 2 (realaudio) Now this is the real music. No one ever did it better, except perhaps Robert Johnson (the devil versus the Jesus).
posted by caddis at 12:56 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by caddis at 12:56 AM on May 6, 2007
It always surprizes me what strong reactions Tori Amos gets from people. If you don't like her music, that's fine, some people don't like all kinds of different musicians. She's eccentric and I like that even though some times her music is crap. Look at Bjork, that woman is crazy and sometimes her music sucks too, but mostly the mens think she's cute. There are tons of crazy musicians out there. They do groovy stuff, they do crappy stuff. What worries me about this conversation is the idea that if a female musician is ugly or unattractive to some she should just shut the fuck up. There are plenty of really ugly guy musicians who are crazy and do some good and some bad music. No one says anything about their looks, they just comment on the crazy. X (male musician) is crazy, does good and bad music, but no one is commenting on how he should shut up because no one wants to fuck him.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 12:57 AM on May 6, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 12:57 AM on May 6, 2007 [4 favorites]
The difference being, belle, that Tori raises the issue of fuckability by singing 'I'm a MILF".
posted by jouke at 1:04 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by jouke at 1:04 AM on May 6, 2007
There are plenty of really ugly guy musicians who are crazy and do some good and some bad music. No one says anything about their looks, they just comment on the crazy. X (male musician) is crazy, does good and bad music, but no one is commenting on how he should shut up because no one wants to fuck him.
Frankly, Belle, that's not true. I've heard girls go on about how ugly Elliot Smith was, or about how Thom Yorke fails to meet their "height requirements," not to mention his other physical oddities. Going back to my parents' generation, I've heard hausfrau prattle about how Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen are too short, or how Roy Orbison was just ghastly.
posted by kid ichorous at 1:36 AM on May 6, 2007
Frankly, Belle, that's not true. I've heard girls go on about how ugly Elliot Smith was, or about how Thom Yorke fails to meet their "height requirements," not to mention his other physical oddities. Going back to my parents' generation, I've heard hausfrau prattle about how Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen are too short, or how Roy Orbison was just ghastly.
posted by kid ichorous at 1:36 AM on May 6, 2007
I once gave a girl a lift between Christchurch and Dunedin. She wouldn't stop banging on about putting Tori Amos on the car stereo.
I got so sick of her going on about it I played the Ghetto Boys' Gangster of love.
The opening of the track is a refrain from a CCR song, and she squealed "I love this track".
Turns out she didn't though BTW.
I am looking forward to the day that track is played on network TV.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 1:38 AM on May 6, 2007
I got so sick of her going on about it I played the Ghetto Boys' Gangster of love.
The opening of the track is a refrain from a CCR song, and she squealed "I love this track".
Turns out she didn't though BTW.
I am looking forward to the day that track is played on network TV.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 1:38 AM on May 6, 2007
The difference being, belle, that Tori raises the issue of fuckability by singing 'I'm a MILF".
Plus, ya know, these broads need to know their place.
posted by Roman Graves at 1:39 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Plus, ya know, these broads need to know their place.
posted by Roman Graves at 1:39 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
BitterOldPunk writes "I hate Tori Amos."
I used to have a pretty big problem with Tori. Then I realized that most of my problem with her was based on a hang-up with Authenticity. She's not punk, but she's pretty fucking talented. Little Earthquakes is a hell of an album.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:39 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
I used to have a pretty big problem with Tori. Then I realized that most of my problem with her was based on a hang-up with Authenticity. She's not punk, but she's pretty fucking talented. Little Earthquakes is a hell of an album.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:39 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm not a big fan of Tori's music, but I like her personally. She's a close friend of Neil Gaiman, so that's a mark in her favor.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:31 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:31 AM on May 6, 2007
Belle O'Cosity writes "What worries me about this conversation is the idea that if a female musician is ugly or unattractive to some she should just shut the fuck up."
Er...who in this conversation has said that?
Belle O'Cosity writes "There are plenty of really ugly guy musicians who are crazy and do some good and some bad music. No one says anything about their looks, they just comment on the crazy."
You've never, ever read a thread involving Motorhead, have you?
posted by Bugbread at 5:10 AM on May 6, 2007
Er...who in this conversation has said that?
Belle O'Cosity writes "There are plenty of really ugly guy musicians who are crazy and do some good and some bad music. No one says anything about their looks, they just comment on the crazy."
You've never, ever read a thread involving Motorhead, have you?
posted by Bugbread at 5:10 AM on May 6, 2007
Do not try to make sense out of Tori.
I remember when I got her "first" album, back in maybe 1991. I went into the record store and asked the guy, "What do you have that sounds like Kate Bush?" I wound up with Little Earthquakes, which spent six months in heavy rotation. Eventually, I got Under the Pink. I even went so far as to pick up the ghastly Why Kant Tori Read disc. Each album, though, became progressively less like communication with anyone else and more like some kind of free association dream journal that might only be comprehensible to Tori and, perhaps, a team of psychologists who knew her very well. I feel like I'm listening in on some private conversation held by identical twin children in some language they made up theirselves. I'm not going to get into the "What ... is ... art?" discussion, but I have been left with the feeling that I'm not really meant to understand what it is she's up to. Might as well lock her in a room with Bob Dylan and watch them do competing musical monologues that only they will understand.
It'd be nice if she stopped referencing that she's a close friend of Neil Gaiman in her songs. It sort of takes away the cool points awarded for knowing him.
Bye-bye, Tori. Call me when you want to talk to me.
posted by adipocere at 5:34 AM on May 6, 2007 [3 favorites]
I remember when I got her "first" album, back in maybe 1991. I went into the record store and asked the guy, "What do you have that sounds like Kate Bush?" I wound up with Little Earthquakes, which spent six months in heavy rotation. Eventually, I got Under the Pink. I even went so far as to pick up the ghastly Why Kant Tori Read disc. Each album, though, became progressively less like communication with anyone else and more like some kind of free association dream journal that might only be comprehensible to Tori and, perhaps, a team of psychologists who knew her very well. I feel like I'm listening in on some private conversation held by identical twin children in some language they made up theirselves. I'm not going to get into the "What ... is ... art?" discussion, but I have been left with the feeling that I'm not really meant to understand what it is she's up to. Might as well lock her in a room with Bob Dylan and watch them do competing musical monologues that only they will understand.
It'd be nice if she stopped referencing that she's a close friend of Neil Gaiman in her songs. It sort of takes away the cool points awarded for knowing him.
Bye-bye, Tori. Call me when you want to talk to me.
posted by adipocere at 5:34 AM on May 6, 2007 [3 favorites]
What worries me about this conversation is the idea that if a female musician is ugly or unattractive to some she should just shut the fuck up
I hope you aren’t thinking of my earlier comments as negative. When I said that I thought she might actually be Dennis Kucinich in a red wig I wasn’t being mean. I think Dennis is a damn handsome little fellow with more than enough moxie to pull off the red Cher wig look. I didn’t want him to “just shut the fuck up” I wanted to vote for him.
As to belonging in the Mature section not MILF, well lets just say I’ve always suspected that most MILF fans have never actually spent much time hooking up. But they should trust me when I say trying to sneak out of an apartment at 5 AM that’s wall to wall kids will take the bloom off that rose in a hurry. Besides, the riper the berry the sweeter the juice.
posted by BostonJake at 5:47 AM on May 6, 2007
I hope you aren’t thinking of my earlier comments as negative. When I said that I thought she might actually be Dennis Kucinich in a red wig I wasn’t being mean. I think Dennis is a damn handsome little fellow with more than enough moxie to pull off the red Cher wig look. I didn’t want him to “just shut the fuck up” I wanted to vote for him.
As to belonging in the Mature section not MILF, well lets just say I’ve always suspected that most MILF fans have never actually spent much time hooking up. But they should trust me when I say trying to sneak out of an apartment at 5 AM that’s wall to wall kids will take the bloom off that rose in a hurry. Besides, the riper the berry the sweeter the juice.
posted by BostonJake at 5:47 AM on May 6, 2007
You guys... are acting like her lyrics are all surreal and disjoint or something. They're not really. For example, if you want serious ambiguity, Hole/Nirvana-style lyrics outdo her.
posted by Firas at 5:48 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by Firas at 5:48 AM on May 6, 2007
I guess one way in which I can agree that she's inscrutable his that her lyrics can get much more specific with referencing events, actions, imagery etc. yet remaining unrelentingly unclear on what the context is.
posted by Firas at 5:51 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Firas at 5:51 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Now would be a good time for some jruns
posted by srboisvert at 6:06 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by srboisvert at 6:06 AM on May 6, 2007
Tori Amos sings out of a Markov Chainer implanted in her vagina.
posted by pieoverdone at 6:20 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by pieoverdone at 6:20 AM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Each album, though, became progressively less like communication with anyone else and more like some kind of free association dream journal that might only be comprehensible to Tori and, perhaps, a team of psychologists who knew her very well. I feel like I'm listening in on some private conversation held by identical twin children in some language they made up theirselves.
That's true, to an extent. Tori very much uses her own language, and even as a fan since LE came out (and yes, I got the wretched Y KANT TORI READ album too... bear in mind that a lot of why it sucked so very badly was because she hadn't learned to stand up to the label yet--they forced her into a pigeonhole she didn't want to be in, but thought she had to) I find some of her lyrics completely inscrutable. That said, the more you listen to her, the more you learn how she uses her language, and what things mean--for the most part, anyway.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:59 AM on May 6, 2007
That's true, to an extent. Tori very much uses her own language, and even as a fan since LE came out (and yes, I got the wretched Y KANT TORI READ album too... bear in mind that a lot of why it sucked so very badly was because she hadn't learned to stand up to the label yet--they forced her into a pigeonhole she didn't want to be in, but thought she had to) I find some of her lyrics completely inscrutable. That said, the more you listen to her, the more you learn how she uses her language, and what things mean--for the most part, anyway.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:59 AM on May 6, 2007
A friend habitually referred to her as Torn Anus. Now I can't help doing the same.
posted by bink at 7:13 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by bink at 7:13 AM on May 6, 2007
Although I have been familiar with her for a long time, and loved everything I heard from LE and Under the Pink (without buying them) the only CD I have is Scarlet's Walk. And I love it. Some songs more than others, but it spent a solid 2 years in heavy rotation and it's still my go-to music when nothing else seems to fit.
It's true a lot of her lyrics are obscure, but, like Paul Simon, she seems more interested in using words to evoke emotion without, necessarily, clarity of meaning.
posted by The Deej at 7:24 AM on May 6, 2007
It's true a lot of her lyrics are obscure, but, like Paul Simon, she seems more interested in using words to evoke emotion without, necessarily, clarity of meaning.
posted by The Deej at 7:24 AM on May 6, 2007
sounds suspiciously like country music to me
posted by pyramid termite at 7:36 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by pyramid termite at 7:36 AM on May 6, 2007
I saw Tori a few years back (we had VIP seats) and Donald "Duck" Dunn was on bass.
posted by stevil at 7:57 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by stevil at 7:57 AM on May 6, 2007
Definitely has a Nancy Sinatra vibe to it, I dig it. I probably won't go out of my way to buy the new album, but I've always enjoyed her.
I've heard girls go on about how ugly Elliot Smith was, or about how Thom Yorke fails to meet their "height requirements," not to mention his other physical oddities. Going back to my parents' generation, I've heard hausfrau prattle about how Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen are too short, or how Roy Orbison was just ghastly.
That's just long distance nitpicking by people that likely have never met those artists in person. I'm sure if they had been in the same room, reactions would be different. One cannot deny that ugly motherfuckers like Tom Petty, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler and yes, even Lemmy and Tad Doyle have been waist deep in groupies for the majority of their careers (some probably still are).
I do agree with Ms O'Cosity that a lot of the animosity directed at the likes of Tori Amos, Alanis Morrissette and other successful female artists, is at times tinged with more than a hint of misogyny and is invariably accompanied by a superficial cheap shots about their looks. Which is both unfortunate and aggravating. Successful, but "ugly" men in music tend to get more reverence because of all they've had to overcome to get noticed (whatever).
posted by psmealey at 8:12 AM on May 6, 2007
I've heard girls go on about how ugly Elliot Smith was, or about how Thom Yorke fails to meet their "height requirements," not to mention his other physical oddities. Going back to my parents' generation, I've heard hausfrau prattle about how Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen are too short, or how Roy Orbison was just ghastly.
That's just long distance nitpicking by people that likely have never met those artists in person. I'm sure if they had been in the same room, reactions would be different. One cannot deny that ugly motherfuckers like Tom Petty, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler and yes, even Lemmy and Tad Doyle have been waist deep in groupies for the majority of their careers (some probably still are).
I do agree with Ms O'Cosity that a lot of the animosity directed at the likes of Tori Amos, Alanis Morrissette and other successful female artists, is at times tinged with more than a hint of misogyny and is invariably accompanied by a superficial cheap shots about their looks. Which is both unfortunate and aggravating. Successful, but "ugly" men in music tend to get more reverence because of all they've had to overcome to get noticed (whatever).
posted by psmealey at 8:12 AM on May 6, 2007
Majorly Icky Lyrical Female
posted by gorgor_balabala at 8:21 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by gorgor_balabala at 8:21 AM on May 6, 2007
Terrible post, but the song's pretty good. (Of course I don't generally listen much to lyrics.)
posted by callmejay at 8:50 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by callmejay at 8:50 AM on May 6, 2007
Belle O'Cosity writes "What worries me about this conversation is the idea that if a female musician is ugly or unattractive to some she should just shut the fuck up."
Er...who in this conversation has said that?
nobody, Bell O'Cosity is just airing her personal grievances wherever she can squeeze them in.
in other news: Tori's music would be much better if she actually lived among people, rather than secluding herself on her fantasyland ranch in the middle of nowhere and only speaking to agents and other celebrities. now all her music is all this "this i what i see real people as being like" bullshit, as though she were writing songs about watching an ant farm.
this is, by the way, exactly where almost every other megahuge pop act has gone wrong. U2, I'm looking in your direction!
posted by shmegegge at 9:04 AM on May 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
Er...who in this conversation has said that?
nobody, Bell O'Cosity is just airing her personal grievances wherever she can squeeze them in.
in other news: Tori's music would be much better if she actually lived among people, rather than secluding herself on her fantasyland ranch in the middle of nowhere and only speaking to agents and other celebrities. now all her music is all this "this i what i see real people as being like" bullshit, as though she were writing songs about watching an ant farm.
this is, by the way, exactly where almost every other megahuge pop act has gone wrong. U2, I'm looking in your direction!
posted by shmegegge at 9:04 AM on May 6, 2007 [2 favorites]
That's just long distance nitpicking by people that likely have never met those artists in person. I'm sure if they had been in the same room, reactions would be different.
Well, since Belle was generalizing about how women *talk about* male artists, it doesn't really matter how they'd react to celebrity in person. For all we know, the same men who snipe at Alanis Morrisette and Courtney Love at a distance would be starstruck and fawning at their feet in person. Celebrity is a strange force.
posted by kid ichorous at 9:56 AM on May 6, 2007
Well, since Belle was generalizing about how women *talk about* male artists, it doesn't really matter how they'd react to celebrity in person. For all we know, the same men who snipe at Alanis Morrisette and Courtney Love at a distance would be starstruck and fawning at their feet in person. Celebrity is a strange force.
posted by kid ichorous at 9:56 AM on May 6, 2007
Well, since Belle was generalizing about how women *talk about* male artists, it doesn't really matter how they'd react to celebrity in person.
Ok, but I think the point is that with women recording artists, generally speaking, if people find that person unattractive it is usually presented as part of the overall critique of that artist. With male artists, though the physical attractiveness quotient sometimes comes up in conversation, it's largely beside the point.
Plate of beans, maybe, but I do think there is a double-standard at work. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of that kind of behavior, but it is something that I have noticed overall.
posted by psmealey at 10:14 AM on May 6, 2007
Ok, but I think the point is that with women recording artists, generally speaking, if people find that person unattractive it is usually presented as part of the overall critique of that artist. With male artists, though the physical attractiveness quotient sometimes comes up in conversation, it's largely beside the point.
Plate of beans, maybe, but I do think there is a double-standard at work. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of that kind of behavior, but it is something that I have noticed overall.
posted by psmealey at 10:14 AM on May 6, 2007
"For all we know, the same men who snipe at Alanis Morrisette and Courtney Love at a distance would be starstruck and fawning at their feet in person."
Alanis Morrisette IS incredibly cute in person, but part of that is because she's only, like, 4'9" or so— she's incredibly short.
But psmealey's both right and not putting forth anything that's particularly controversial for people who read (or write) a lot about music. You almost always see a woman's appearance noted before her talent, and only rarely is it left out entirely. You rarely see a guy's appearance noted before his music, and it's routinely left out of articles. Sorry I can't be more scientific and give you numbers, but yeah, it's something that comes up all the time, and is one of those hallmarks of lazy writing...
posted by klangklangston at 10:40 AM on May 6, 2007
Alanis Morrisette IS incredibly cute in person, but part of that is because she's only, like, 4'9" or so— she's incredibly short.
But psmealey's both right and not putting forth anything that's particularly controversial for people who read (or write) a lot about music. You almost always see a woman's appearance noted before her talent, and only rarely is it left out entirely. You rarely see a guy's appearance noted before his music, and it's routinely left out of articles. Sorry I can't be more scientific and give you numbers, but yeah, it's something that comes up all the time, and is one of those hallmarks of lazy writing...
posted by klangklangston at 10:40 AM on May 6, 2007
psmealey writes "I do think there is a double-standard at work. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of that kind of behavior, but it is something that I have noticed overall."
There, we agree. My beef with Belle's comment was: "What worries me about this conversation". What's worrying Belle is another, frequent conversation, worthy of worry, but not this one.
posted by Bugbread at 11:23 AM on May 6, 2007
There, we agree. My beef with Belle's comment was: "What worries me about this conversation". What's worrying Belle is another, frequent conversation, worthy of worry, but not this one.
posted by Bugbread at 11:23 AM on May 6, 2007
pyramid termite, it's just this particular song that's country-music like. At this stage in her career, cross-genre artistry is child's play. (It *is* safe to pigeonhole her though... she's adult alternative [or maybe more alt rock] with frequent comfortable extrusions into pop territory.)
posted by Firas at 11:55 AM on May 6, 2007
posted by Firas at 11:55 AM on May 6, 2007
This whole discussion of whether it's ok to comment on Tori's unattractiveness makes absolutely zero sense to me - I've always thought she was quite pretty.
Then again I'm also a fan of her apparently crappy music, so what do I know?
posted by naoko at 12:29 PM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Then again I'm also a fan of her apparently crappy music, so what do I know?
posted by naoko at 12:29 PM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
She was slurring an awful lot of words for you to fixate on just the f/x thing.
And for the record I love Nirvana, they are my favorite band ever, and I liked her cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit."
posted by oddman at 1:09 PM on May 6, 2007
And for the record I love Nirvana, they are my favorite band ever, and I liked her cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit."
posted by oddman at 1:09 PM on May 6, 2007
in other news: Tori's music would be much better if she actually lived among people, rather than secluding herself on her fantasyland ranch in the middle of nowhere and only speaking to agents and other celebrities. now all her music is all this "this i what i see real people as being like" bullshit, as though she were writing songs about watching an ant farm.
Uh, in what universe is that what she's writing about? Learn something about commenting on her music, kthx.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:44 PM on May 6, 2007
Uh, in what universe is that what she's writing about? Learn something about commenting on her music, kthx.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:44 PM on May 6, 2007
She was slurring an awful lot of words for you to fixate on just the f/x thing.
I realize that it strains credibility to suggest such action on the part of a popular music performer, but is it at least possible that she was, well... high?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:55 PM on May 6, 2007
I realize that it strains credibility to suggest such action on the part of a popular music performer, but is it at least possible that she was, well... high?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:55 PM on May 6, 2007
She's also 44, people--just 5 years younger than Kate Bush, who sounds slurred even on records these days.
I realize that 44 is a few decades before you expect someone to start slurring, but um. It's an idea.
posted by Firas at 3:59 PM on May 6, 2007
I realize that 44 is a few decades before you expect someone to start slurring, but um. It's an idea.
posted by Firas at 3:59 PM on May 6, 2007
ROU, Tori (as mentioned above) does some really bizarre things with word pronunciation when she's singing, particularly when she's singing live. In the studio it's not so much, and I think that's because in live performance she completely loses her shit (in that incredibly good way) and just falls into the music.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:01 PM on May 6, 2007
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:01 PM on May 6, 2007
dirtynumb,
have you even heard of scarlett's walk? go away. you don't know what you're talking about and you're being an asshole again.
posted by shmegegge at 5:07 PM on May 6, 2007
have you even heard of scarlett's walk? go away. you don't know what you're talking about and you're being an asshole again.
posted by shmegegge at 5:07 PM on May 6, 2007
Uh, in what universe is that what she's writing about? Learn something about commenting on her music, kthx.
Well, as a sometimes fan, I think schmegegge has a point.
Brush away the grandiose "web of American experience" designs from Scarlet's Walk, and you have some attempts at episodic slice-of-real-life America. Her perspective on the life of a sex worker could have been interesting - but, though cleverly titled, it is built upon predictable, one-dimensional angles of "exploitation" and "lost innocence." These are precisely the same notes she hits in her musings on the land itself (which is personified as, you guessed it, an exploited woman in "Virginia"), to her obligatory 9/11 reaction shots. Then there's the faux-authentic radio fluff of the "Sorta Fairytale" species, which seems to be about people with undefined pasts and motivations being "just imposters in this country, you know." Sigh, really? I compare all of this to something like Sufjan Stevens' "Michigan" or to something like Cannibal Ox's "The Cold Vein," which, though more limited in scope, come much closer to describing vivid, breathing places and times.
I want to appreciate her later stuff, mind you, but there's her incredible ambition - to create this vast travelogue of American experience - and then there's what she actually does. Her albums are setting forth these complex, Cathedral-like concepts, but the actual interior is more like a strip-mall - so much feels both predictable and artificial, that it's like her great Cathedral admits no natural light. And the sudden infusion of folky guitar and orchestration is an insufficient fix.
(And that Saab song - ugh, I'll stop here.)
posted by kid ichorous at 5:23 PM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
Well, as a sometimes fan, I think schmegegge has a point.
Brush away the grandiose "web of American experience" designs from Scarlet's Walk, and you have some attempts at episodic slice-of-real-life America. Her perspective on the life of a sex worker could have been interesting - but, though cleverly titled, it is built upon predictable, one-dimensional angles of "exploitation" and "lost innocence." These are precisely the same notes she hits in her musings on the land itself (which is personified as, you guessed it, an exploited woman in "Virginia"), to her obligatory 9/11 reaction shots. Then there's the faux-authentic radio fluff of the "Sorta Fairytale" species, which seems to be about people with undefined pasts and motivations being "just imposters in this country, you know." Sigh, really? I compare all of this to something like Sufjan Stevens' "Michigan" or to something like Cannibal Ox's "The Cold Vein," which, though more limited in scope, come much closer to describing vivid, breathing places and times.
I want to appreciate her later stuff, mind you, but there's her incredible ambition - to create this vast travelogue of American experience - and then there's what she actually does. Her albums are setting forth these complex, Cathedral-like concepts, but the actual interior is more like a strip-mall - so much feels both predictable and artificial, that it's like her great Cathedral admits no natural light. And the sudden infusion of folky guitar and orchestration is an insufficient fix.
(And that Saab song - ugh, I'll stop here.)
posted by kid ichorous at 5:23 PM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
But I keep up with her music anyways, because I'm fairly sure she'll knock it out of the park again sometime before i'm 40 and she's 60.
posted by kid ichorous at 5:26 PM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by kid ichorous at 5:26 PM on May 6, 2007 [1 favorite]
dirtynumb,
have you even heard of scarlett's walk? go away. you don't know what you're talking about and you're being an asshole again.
Yes I have, and with all due respect, I didn't think that's what we were talking about here, since the post is about a new song from the new album. So, fuck you very much, ok?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:26 PM on May 6, 2007
have you even heard of scarlett's walk? go away. you don't know what you're talking about and you're being an asshole again.
Yes I have, and with all due respect, I didn't think that's what we were talking about here, since the post is about a new song from the new album. So, fuck you very much, ok?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:26 PM on May 6, 2007
dirtynumbangelboy writes "I didn't think that's what we were talking about here, since the post is about a new song from the new album. So, fuck you very much, ok?"
As a non-listener, the impression I got when we talked about her lyrics was that we were talking about her lyrics in general, not the lyrics on the album this song appears on.
posted by Bugbread at 5:29 PM on May 6, 2007
As a non-listener, the impression I got when we talked about her lyrics was that we were talking about her lyrics in general, not the lyrics on the album this song appears on.
posted by Bugbread at 5:29 PM on May 6, 2007
Whatever. He said "now all her music is", and that is not my impression of the music from American Doll Posse, which fits any definition of 'now' you care to name.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:35 PM on May 6, 2007
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:35 PM on May 6, 2007
My god. I might be the only human being alive that actually enjoyed some of "Y Kant Tori Read."
As long as she doesn't turn into a complete freak like bjork, I'm happy.
posted by drstein at 5:36 PM on May 6, 2007
As long as she doesn't turn into a complete freak like bjork, I'm happy.
posted by drstein at 5:36 PM on May 6, 2007
oh, drstein, I enjoy some of YKTR for sheer bad 80's camp value. And she does occasionally bring out some YKTR songs on tour (Etienne, Cool On Your Island).
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:45 PM on May 6, 2007
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:45 PM on May 6, 2007
Whatever. He said "now all her music is", and that is not my impression of the music from American Doll Posse, which fits any definition of 'now' you care to name.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:35 PM on May 6 [+] [!]
take a fucking walk, dude. If you can't take conversational english at anything but literal meaning, then you need to chill the fuck out and come back when you're capable of speaking with some measure of civility and common sense.
posted by shmegegge at 10:15 PM on May 6, 2007
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:35 PM on May 6 [+] [!]
take a fucking walk, dude. If you can't take conversational english at anything but literal meaning, then you need to chill the fuck out and come back when you're capable of speaking with some measure of civility and common sense.
posted by shmegegge at 10:15 PM on May 6, 2007
Or here's a better idea: bite me. I interpreted 'now' to mean 'currently'. Scarlet's Walk is how old? Five years? It's not exactly 'now'.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:09 AM on May 7, 2007
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:09 AM on May 7, 2007
interpret whatever you want however you want. what you seem to have a problem with is not being a total douchebag about it. if you're such a rabid fan that you can't take someone giving the mildest criticism of your favorite performer, the problem isn't that your such a big fan or your ability to understand conversational english, it's that you become an absolute motherfucker about it. chill out and shut the fuck up.
posted by shmegegge at 8:23 AM on May 7, 2007
posted by shmegegge at 8:23 AM on May 7, 2007
I heard it as an "F" the first time, and an "X" subsequently.
I actually like Tori Amos, but this song isn't enough to make me check out her (new?) album. I got turned off by the "Little Girls" cover album and haven't ever gone back ...
posted by mrgrimm at 12:45 PM on May 7, 2007
I actually like Tori Amos, but this song isn't enough to make me check out her (new?) album. I got turned off by the "Little Girls" cover album and haven't ever gone back ...
posted by mrgrimm at 12:45 PM on May 7, 2007
That's funny, mrgrimm, I like Strange Little Girls, because it has some lyrical sense to it (because Tori did not write the lyrics!). I'm a Tori fan. But she hasn't quite lived up to what I thought she could be when I bought Little Earthquakes back in 1991.
The trend on her newer stuff does seem to be toward something I like a bit more than her intermediate stuff. After Under the Pink, I have a hard time picking out particular Tori songs, even though they play all the time on my iPod. Whereas I know LE word for word, and UTP almost word-for-word.
Some of her very best work is/was released as B-sides to singles. "Upside Down" and "Take to the Sky" come to mind. Those two are probably my favorites, and they are not on any albums, unless they are live ones. (I haven't bought a single from her in ages, so I don't know if she is still doing this). She also has some great songs from movie soundtracks ("Butterflies" from Higher Learning is great).
posted by teece at 3:34 PM on May 7, 2007
The trend on her newer stuff does seem to be toward something I like a bit more than her intermediate stuff. After Under the Pink, I have a hard time picking out particular Tori songs, even though they play all the time on my iPod. Whereas I know LE word for word, and UTP almost word-for-word.
Some of her very best work is/was released as B-sides to singles. "Upside Down" and "Take to the Sky" come to mind. Those two are probably my favorites, and they are not on any albums, unless they are live ones. (I haven't bought a single from her in ages, so I don't know if she is still doing this). She also has some great songs from movie soundtracks ("Butterflies" from Higher Learning is great).
posted by teece at 3:34 PM on May 7, 2007
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