Chris Benoit, 1967-2007
June 25, 2007 7:48 PM Subscribe
Coming weeks after the fake (and illegal?) "death" of WWE supremo Vince McMahon, police have confirmed the deaths of Canadian pro wrestler Chris "Wild Pegasus"/"The Dyname Kid" Benoit, his wife and son. Gone too soon. Relive his greatest hits through the just-posted tributes on YouTube: [1] [2] [3] [4] .
My (internet illiterate) sister called me earlier this evening and asked me to confirm that this story was real and not a Vince McMahon fakeout. What a bizarre coincidence.
posted by ColdChef at 7:54 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by ColdChef at 7:54 PM on June 25, 2007
That's "Mr." McMahon. oh this is so silly, only ten year olds, like my poor son, think this is relevant.
posted by caddis at 7:54 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by caddis at 7:54 PM on June 25, 2007
A . for Chris and a ? for Vince for looking like an idiot.
posted by ageispolis at 8:01 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by ageispolis at 8:01 PM on June 25, 2007
Double weird.
My little brother (well, not THAT little) ended up staying over Saturday night and we spent a good bit of time heartily cackling over Smackdown/RAW 2007 (Xbox 360/HD), where, I found out among other things, Benoit was in his top three.
Which lead me to the mandatory fanboy schooling session...
posted by Samizdata at 8:06 PM on June 25, 2007
My little brother (well, not THAT little) ended up staying over Saturday night and we spent a good bit of time heartily cackling over Smackdown/RAW 2007 (Xbox 360/HD), where, I found out among other things, Benoit was in his top three.
Which lead me to the mandatory fanboy schooling session...
posted by Samizdata at 8:06 PM on June 25, 2007
Chris Benoit != "The Dynamite Kid".
He will be missed terribly. Fantastic talent, and from various reports a good friend to people backstage. it would have been interesting to see what he made of "ECW".
posted by kaemaril at 8:12 PM on June 25, 2007
He will be missed terribly. Fantastic talent, and from various reports a good friend to people backstage. it would have been interesting to see what he made of "ECW".
posted by kaemaril at 8:12 PM on June 25, 2007
Yahoo! News story
posted by Space Coyote at 8:29 PM on June 25, 2007
Detective Bo Turner told television station WAGA that the case was being treated as a murder-suicide, but said that couldn't be confirmed until evidence was examined by a crime lab.It's fucked up that he killed his family on the weekend and then just.. went about his day for a couple of days before killing himself on Monday. That's not a murder-suicide, that's a murder-watch some TV, order a pizza-suicide.
The station said that investigators believe the 40-year-old Benoit killed his wife, Nancy, and 7-year-old son, Daniel, over the weekend, then himself on Monday. A neighbor called police, and the bodies were found in three rooms.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:29 PM on June 25, 2007
That's "Mr." McMahon. oh this is so silly, only ten year olds, like my poor son, think this is relevant.
posted by caddis
Only 10 yr olds think 3 people dying -- a husband and wife and their 7 yr old child -- is relevant? Looks like you've raised a good son, despite your own apparent assholishness.
Look, whether or not you think pro-wrestling is silly or stupid or whatever, for a lot of people it is a form of entertainment that is meaningful. It can be fun and exciting, and yes, everyone knows it's "fake." Just like you know that the movies you watch and books you read are fake. That doesn't mean that you don't enjoy it, and that you don't get attached to the personalities involved. That doesn't mean that when a character dies, you don't feel sad. And when that character is a real person with a real family, who you may have seen in person, may have even met and got an autograph from, well that can feel pretty fucking relevant to you.
dhammond: The memorial itself was not pre-taped. They are using tapes of old matches and mixing it with live comments from his co-workers.
As for what happened, who knows. From what I have read on some of the "wrestling insider" sites, word is that he flew back to GA on Sunday due to "personal problems." One theory is that his wife & son were sick, dying, perhaps from some sickness or perhaps from his own poisoning, and that after they died he killed himself. Another theory is that all 3 may have been poisoned. Who knows. Pro-wrestling is a crazy business, as these guys are on the road 300 days a year, working injured (and often on too many painkillers) because a day off a show means less money, means less merchandise sold, means less time on TV, means you're not going to be able to support your family the way you hoped. It can fuck with your mind, and it really sucks if it turns out that it helped to turn someone who I always heard was a genuinely good person into a murderer.
I haven't watched wrestling for about 7-8 years. I enjoyed it a great deal in my college years, but McMahon's booking and writing left a lot to be desired. Benoit was one of my favorite wrestlers. He was one of the few who really could "tell a story" in the ring, like some other great and deceased wrestlers (Eddy Guerrero and Owen Hart in particular, both good friends of Chris). He was exciting to watch, always giving 100%, really committed to the athleticism of wrestling, not the gimmicky shit that McMahon likes to peddle too often. He was also, from what I know, a legitimate badass, trained like many of the old school wrestlers in real submission grappling. He liked to bring a sense of realism to the ring. It sucks to hear that he's gone, because he's one of the few reasons why I would even consider turning on WWE ever again. It is difficult to even explain to people who weren't wrestling fans or only watched it for the over-the-top silliness of some of the storylines the kind of wrestler that Benoit was. If you ever get a chance to watch his matches in Japan from the early-mid 90s, or his stuff in the early ECW, well, that's the best way to get to know Benoit.
posted by papakwanz at 8:47 PM on June 25, 2007 [9 favorites]
posted by caddis
Only 10 yr olds think 3 people dying -- a husband and wife and their 7 yr old child -- is relevant? Looks like you've raised a good son, despite your own apparent assholishness.
Look, whether or not you think pro-wrestling is silly or stupid or whatever, for a lot of people it is a form of entertainment that is meaningful. It can be fun and exciting, and yes, everyone knows it's "fake." Just like you know that the movies you watch and books you read are fake. That doesn't mean that you don't enjoy it, and that you don't get attached to the personalities involved. That doesn't mean that when a character dies, you don't feel sad. And when that character is a real person with a real family, who you may have seen in person, may have even met and got an autograph from, well that can feel pretty fucking relevant to you.
dhammond: The memorial itself was not pre-taped. They are using tapes of old matches and mixing it with live comments from his co-workers.
As for what happened, who knows. From what I have read on some of the "wrestling insider" sites, word is that he flew back to GA on Sunday due to "personal problems." One theory is that his wife & son were sick, dying, perhaps from some sickness or perhaps from his own poisoning, and that after they died he killed himself. Another theory is that all 3 may have been poisoned. Who knows. Pro-wrestling is a crazy business, as these guys are on the road 300 days a year, working injured (and often on too many painkillers) because a day off a show means less money, means less merchandise sold, means less time on TV, means you're not going to be able to support your family the way you hoped. It can fuck with your mind, and it really sucks if it turns out that it helped to turn someone who I always heard was a genuinely good person into a murderer.
I haven't watched wrestling for about 7-8 years. I enjoyed it a great deal in my college years, but McMahon's booking and writing left a lot to be desired. Benoit was one of my favorite wrestlers. He was one of the few who really could "tell a story" in the ring, like some other great and deceased wrestlers (Eddy Guerrero and Owen Hart in particular, both good friends of Chris). He was exciting to watch, always giving 100%, really committed to the athleticism of wrestling, not the gimmicky shit that McMahon likes to peddle too often. He was also, from what I know, a legitimate badass, trained like many of the old school wrestlers in real submission grappling. He liked to bring a sense of realism to the ring. It sucks to hear that he's gone, because he's one of the few reasons why I would even consider turning on WWE ever again. It is difficult to even explain to people who weren't wrestling fans or only watched it for the over-the-top silliness of some of the storylines the kind of wrestler that Benoit was. If you ever get a chance to watch his matches in Japan from the early-mid 90s, or his stuff in the early ECW, well, that's the best way to get to know Benoit.
posted by papakwanz at 8:47 PM on June 25, 2007 [9 favorites]
Who would have thought that, less than three and a half years after they both won belts at Wrestlemania XX, both Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit would be dead? I haven't watched wrestling much since Eddie died, and this is pretty much the end for me. The professional wrestling business is poisonous.
The sad part is that Benoit, who was one of the best professional wrestlers of all time, has destroyed his legacy of 20 years of entertainment and athleticism by performing such a senseless and tragic act. It's just very hard for me to think that one of my favorite professional wrestlers is a child murderer.
Chris Jericho, please stay out of the ring. I want you to live to be an old man.
posted by MegoSteve at 9:03 PM on June 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
The sad part is that Benoit, who was one of the best professional wrestlers of all time, has destroyed his legacy of 20 years of entertainment and athleticism by performing such a senseless and tragic act. It's just very hard for me to think that one of my favorite professional wrestlers is a child murderer.
Chris Jericho, please stay out of the ring. I want you to live to be an old man.
posted by MegoSteve at 9:03 PM on June 25, 2007 [2 favorites]
MegoSteve: Agreed. I wasn't watching wrestling when Eddy died, but I was really bummed. He was a great entertainer. I think Jericho is retired, thank god. I do wonder how someone like Ric Flair still stays active after what, 40 years in the business? It's insane that he could survive such a really toxic environment. I'm worried for others, like the pretty much insane Kurt Angle, who still wrestles despite crippling injuries and prescription drug abuse.
posted by papakwanz at 9:10 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by papakwanz at 9:10 PM on June 25, 2007
.
posted by BeerFilter at 9:11 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by BeerFilter at 9:11 PM on June 25, 2007
For those who think it's mighty coincidental that they had so much history/tribute footage ready to go on Raw tonight, many of the sit-down interviews and video packages were taken directly from a 2004 DVD Hard Knocks - The Chris Benoit Story.
posted by AdamJ at 9:15 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by AdamJ at 9:15 PM on June 25, 2007
Look, whether or not you think pro-wrestling is silly or stupid or whatever, for a lot of people it is a form of entertainment that is meaningful. It can be fun and exciting, and yes, everyone knows it's "fake." Just like you know that the movies you watch and books you read are fake. That doesn't mean that you don't enjoy it, and that you don't get attached to the personalities involved. That doesn't mean that when a character dies, you don't feel sad. And when that character is a real person with a real family, who you may have seen in person, may have even met and got an autograph from, well that can feel pretty fucking relevant to you.
Amen.
I've been lucky enough to be around wrestlers for a local promotion, working on a personal photoessay. (Some rough comps are here, if anyone's interested.) These guys are as far from the WWE as Little League is from the show. But that doesn't mean they don't have a dramatic excess of heart, turning out in local church halls and community centres to advance their storylines and thrill their fans. It is preconceived but hardly fake; to me, it is so much more real than 99% of the pre-packaged, focus-tested, synergy-merchandised corporate entertainment I see every day.
I can't come close to expressing any of this nearly as well as Mick Foley in his autobiography and its follow-up. Two great accounts of the (sometimes inspired) lunacy of "fake" wrestling.
posted by docgonzo at 9:31 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
Amen.
I've been lucky enough to be around wrestlers for a local promotion, working on a personal photoessay. (Some rough comps are here, if anyone's interested.) These guys are as far from the WWE as Little League is from the show. But that doesn't mean they don't have a dramatic excess of heart, turning out in local church halls and community centres to advance their storylines and thrill their fans. It is preconceived but hardly fake; to me, it is so much more real than 99% of the pre-packaged, focus-tested, synergy-merchandised corporate entertainment I see every day.
I can't come close to expressing any of this nearly as well as Mick Foley in his autobiography and its follow-up. Two great accounts of the (sometimes inspired) lunacy of "fake" wrestling.
posted by docgonzo at 9:31 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I do wonder how someone like Ric Flair still stays active after what, 40 years in the business?
I do think that the answer is that the nature boy is 100% batshitinsane.
posted by docgonzo at 9:32 PM on June 25, 2007 [3 favorites]
I do think that the answer is that the nature boy is 100% batshitinsane.
posted by docgonzo at 9:32 PM on June 25, 2007 [3 favorites]
To put some perspective into this for people who don't follow wrestling, you have to imagine an athlete or entertainer whose work you not only enjoy, but whose personal life and career have been widely regarded as the gold standard of the industry.
Benoit had a saintly reputation and was always understood to be one of the nicest, most down to earth guys in the business. No scandals, no temper-tantrums, no (public?) drug problems or run-ins with the law. He was the one guy that everybody seemed to like. A choirboy of the fake fighting set. He was a bleary-eyed mess not but two years ago when his best friend Eddie Guerrero died. Some of that wholesomeness was probably built into his character, but the impression was always given that he was nothing if not on the up and up.
That's what makes all of this doubly bizarre and horrific.
The reality is that this is a carny industry that's designed to kill people. You get paid to get the shit kicked out of you 360 days a year on the road. No off-seasons, no unions, no actual regulation or enforcement of a drug policy, constant pressure to work injured, practically mandated steroid use and limited understanding or interest from the mainstream media leads to a lot of tragedy. I can't think of another industry, sport or otherwise, that would be allowed to continue unchecked with as many premature deaths as wrestling has. It's a constant parade of painkiller and steroid-induced heart attacks before 50 every single year.
So yes, this is fucking news. Even if you didn't know who the guy was, it was a real tragedy. He didn't kill his family with a chairshot to the head. I don't know half the dead Sci-Fi authors who get their obits here but I don't sidle up into those threads to shit in them.
Something deeply harrowing and tragic has happened here and I can only hope that it's not what it looks like.
posted by StopMakingSense at 9:38 PM on June 25, 2007 [10 favorites]
Benoit had a saintly reputation and was always understood to be one of the nicest, most down to earth guys in the business. No scandals, no temper-tantrums, no (public?) drug problems or run-ins with the law. He was the one guy that everybody seemed to like. A choirboy of the fake fighting set. He was a bleary-eyed mess not but two years ago when his best friend Eddie Guerrero died. Some of that wholesomeness was probably built into his character, but the impression was always given that he was nothing if not on the up and up.
That's what makes all of this doubly bizarre and horrific.
The reality is that this is a carny industry that's designed to kill people. You get paid to get the shit kicked out of you 360 days a year on the road. No off-seasons, no unions, no actual regulation or enforcement of a drug policy, constant pressure to work injured, practically mandated steroid use and limited understanding or interest from the mainstream media leads to a lot of tragedy. I can't think of another industry, sport or otherwise, that would be allowed to continue unchecked with as many premature deaths as wrestling has. It's a constant parade of painkiller and steroid-induced heart attacks before 50 every single year.
So yes, this is fucking news. Even if you didn't know who the guy was, it was a real tragedy. He didn't kill his family with a chairshot to the head. I don't know half the dead Sci-Fi authors who get their obits here but I don't sidle up into those threads to shit in them.
Something deeply harrowing and tragic has happened here and I can only hope that it's not what it looks like.
posted by StopMakingSense at 9:38 PM on June 25, 2007 [10 favorites]
A caveat to all that is, of course, no one's quite sure what happened yet, but I feel my points stand, regardless.
posted by StopMakingSense at 9:55 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by StopMakingSense at 9:55 PM on June 25, 2007
I can remember meeting Chris Benoit when he wrestled out of Calgary and the fact that I have seen him weekly on tv for so many years kind of makes me feel like I knew him, so this is really shocking and hard to process.
I generally think the criticism of tv wrestling is somewhat wrong-minded and usually misses the point but the lives these guys seem to lead makes me wonder if I should support this business at all. I don't know what caused this: stress, drug use, money problems, or mental illness but I really don't want to support a business where guys in their 30's and 40's are dropping dead or killing others.
This really makes me wonder if wrestling really is the cartoonish fantasy I have enjoyed for years or something that really does promote vile actions and physical/mental sickness. Previously I could write off what happened to Owen Hart as an accident, and I could rationalize that most of the drug abuse cases probably got too deep into something they didn't fully understand or knew the trade-off they were making. This event took the level of death and darkness already infecting pro wrestling to a proportion that can't possibly be denied.
posted by Deep Dish at 10:00 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I generally think the criticism of tv wrestling is somewhat wrong-minded and usually misses the point but the lives these guys seem to lead makes me wonder if I should support this business at all. I don't know what caused this: stress, drug use, money problems, or mental illness but I really don't want to support a business where guys in their 30's and 40's are dropping dead or killing others.
This really makes me wonder if wrestling really is the cartoonish fantasy I have enjoyed for years or something that really does promote vile actions and physical/mental sickness. Previously I could write off what happened to Owen Hart as an accident, and I could rationalize that most of the drug abuse cases probably got too deep into something they didn't fully understand or knew the trade-off they were making. This event took the level of death and darkness already infecting pro wrestling to a proportion that can't possibly be denied.
posted by Deep Dish at 10:00 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
StopMakingSense: Very apt contextualizing of Benoit's life. He's just about the last wrestler who I could ever imagine to hear this news about. Mick Foley may be the only person about whom it would shock me more.
The other thing that its hard for most people to understand, even the average pro-wrestling "mark," is the nature of the industry. There's a very hardcore intensity to the pro-wrestling business that goes back to the carny days, when legitimate tough guys would put on exhibition wrestling matches at state fairs and such, taking on both plants and real people from the audience. They were performers, but they also had to know their shit in case some tough farm boy from the crowd or a wrestler from a competing show tried to show them up.
The TV age gave rise to personalities and storylines, but they didn't just become "actors." Feuding wrestlers were prohibited from being seen with each other even outside of the arena. These guys were never out of character. "Kayfabe" -- insider slang for protecting the secrets of the business -- was all important until probably well into the 90s, and is still an important part of the code for pro-wrestlers. These guys take their job very seriously because, as StopMakingSense points out, these guys are putting their health on the line in these performances. They take very seriously whether they win or lose -- and how they win or lose. Getting a championship isn't just a matter of the luck of the draw; it's a serious responsibility, because as a champ you have to put on good matches, keep the fans entertained, put asses in seats and carry the show. And getting a championship belt, especially one with the kind of history and prominence in the industry as the WWE World Championship, is a sign that you are considered -- by your peers, your fans, and your employers -- as a real top shelf performer. It's an important symbol for these guys.
And these guys were really never off. Their wrestling lives and their real lives intersected so much. How did Benoit meet his wife? Well, he was feuding with Kevin Sullivan, who at the time was married to Nancy (known as "Woman.") As part of the storyline, Benoit stole her away and was having an affair with her. They were forced to spend time together outside of the arena -- traveling together and sharing hotel rooms and the like -- and they ended up really getting together. She and Sullivan divorced, and she married Chris. That's just one example of how this career could really powerfully impact your life and screw with your mind. Being away from his family so much of the year, especially since I understand that he and Nancy had a tumultuous relationship, must have just pushed him over the edge.
Actually, the best films to give someone a sense of what it's like being a pro-wrestler are the documentaries Wrestling with Shadows about Bret Hart and Beyond the Mat.
WWE.Com has the following on their website: "It has been ruled that the deaths of Chris Benoit, his wife Nancy and their son Daniel earlier today were the result of a double murder-suicide from within the home."
Wow. It really is hard to believe. I know Chris has 2 other kids (maybe more?) who are in Canada. I only hope that they are able to put their lives together after such a horrific tragedy.
posted by papakwanz at 10:11 PM on June 25, 2007 [6 favorites]
The other thing that its hard for most people to understand, even the average pro-wrestling "mark," is the nature of the industry. There's a very hardcore intensity to the pro-wrestling business that goes back to the carny days, when legitimate tough guys would put on exhibition wrestling matches at state fairs and such, taking on both plants and real people from the audience. They were performers, but they also had to know their shit in case some tough farm boy from the crowd or a wrestler from a competing show tried to show them up.
The TV age gave rise to personalities and storylines, but they didn't just become "actors." Feuding wrestlers were prohibited from being seen with each other even outside of the arena. These guys were never out of character. "Kayfabe" -- insider slang for protecting the secrets of the business -- was all important until probably well into the 90s, and is still an important part of the code for pro-wrestlers. These guys take their job very seriously because, as StopMakingSense points out, these guys are putting their health on the line in these performances. They take very seriously whether they win or lose -- and how they win or lose. Getting a championship isn't just a matter of the luck of the draw; it's a serious responsibility, because as a champ you have to put on good matches, keep the fans entertained, put asses in seats and carry the show. And getting a championship belt, especially one with the kind of history and prominence in the industry as the WWE World Championship, is a sign that you are considered -- by your peers, your fans, and your employers -- as a real top shelf performer. It's an important symbol for these guys.
And these guys were really never off. Their wrestling lives and their real lives intersected so much. How did Benoit meet his wife? Well, he was feuding with Kevin Sullivan, who at the time was married to Nancy (known as "Woman.") As part of the storyline, Benoit stole her away and was having an affair with her. They were forced to spend time together outside of the arena -- traveling together and sharing hotel rooms and the like -- and they ended up really getting together. She and Sullivan divorced, and she married Chris. That's just one example of how this career could really powerfully impact your life and screw with your mind. Being away from his family so much of the year, especially since I understand that he and Nancy had a tumultuous relationship, must have just pushed him over the edge.
Actually, the best films to give someone a sense of what it's like being a pro-wrestler are the documentaries Wrestling with Shadows about Bret Hart and Beyond the Mat.
WWE.Com has the following on their website: "It has been ruled that the deaths of Chris Benoit, his wife Nancy and their son Daniel earlier today were the result of a double murder-suicide from within the home."
Wow. It really is hard to believe. I know Chris has 2 other kids (maybe more?) who are in Canada. I only hope that they are able to put their lives together after such a horrific tragedy.
posted by papakwanz at 10:11 PM on June 25, 2007 [6 favorites]
The other thing to know about Benoit is that he really busted his ass to get where he was. He was billed at, I think, something like 5'11" 230 lbs. I'm betting that was with lifts in his boots. He was probably 5'9", 5'10". This is an industry where the small guys generally don't get big pushes, especially on Vince McMahon's show. He likes the six & 1/2 footers weighing in at 3 bills, and it's a testament to just how much of a hard worker Benoit was that he got over with the fans and with the company to be one of the top names in the promotion.
posted by papakwanz at 10:30 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by papakwanz at 10:30 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
I walked by a tv tonight at work, which was tuned to wrestling, and I saw the super that said he was dead, and without thought dismissed it as fake.
Wow. Just wow.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:30 PM on June 25, 2007
Wow. Just wow.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:30 PM on June 25, 2007
. . .
For the non-fans, this is like Jerry Garcia dying was for the deadheads, or maybe more like if John Lennon had been found dead alongside Yoko and Sean. Coming so soon after Guerrero's death makes it almost even worse.
posted by jtron at 10:39 PM on June 25, 2007
For the non-fans, this is like Jerry Garcia dying was for the deadheads, or maybe more like if John Lennon had been found dead alongside Yoko and Sean. Coming so soon after Guerrero's death makes it almost even worse.
posted by jtron at 10:39 PM on June 25, 2007
this is like Jerry Garcia dying was for the deadheads,
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Easy pardner.
posted by docgonzo at 10:46 PM on June 25, 2007
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Easy pardner.
posted by docgonzo at 10:46 PM on June 25, 2007
I don't know the first thing about wrestling, but jtron's comment basically summed up what the conclusion I was coming to. What a shame. What a strange industry...
posted by invitapriore at 10:56 PM on June 25, 2007
posted by invitapriore at 10:56 PM on June 25, 2007
or maybe more like if John Lennon had been found dead alongside Yoko and Sean.
Yeah, but if that happened, John Lennon's memorial and legacy would be pretty different. As it stands, John Lennon didn't murder anybody, but Chris Benoit did. So why are we all crying for him?
posted by hartsell at 10:57 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but if that happened, John Lennon's memorial and legacy would be pretty different. As it stands, John Lennon didn't murder anybody, but Chris Benoit did. So why are we all crying for him?
posted by hartsell at 10:57 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
i just joined mefi to talk about this. long time thread ghost.
this is an awful story on many levels. i was monitoring some threads earlier on msnbc, etc., and i'm not sure which was worse, the fools still thinking it was a storyline or the foul things people were saying about benoit.
I know someone who lost a brother to suicide. the hardrest part of it for her was trying to understand how someone loved by so many could feel so alone and helpless.
i consider wrestling my guilty pleasure but i am not sure i will be watching anymore. The timing, considering the now abondoned "who killed vince" story, is just numbing.
posted by vrakatar at 11:00 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
Well that is just shitty. I saw a Benoit thread on another forum and I thought "Ew, that's a stupid angle McMahon, nice." But then I got here and realized it was real. Guahhh. :P
.
posted by cavalier at 11:33 PM on June 25, 2007
.
posted by cavalier at 11:33 PM on June 25, 2007
A copy of my post from another forum:
The biggest problem with the wrestling business is the people that are in it. So many of them are so full of themselves. They suck. Seriously. Not the people at the very top, but so many between them and the very bottom do.
But not Benoit.
I once worked for a licensor of WWE. I met Benoit at WrestleMania X7. I had three whole minutes the Saturday morning before the event, and he just was solid and... nice. Strange word, "nice."
And, now? He might have killed his wife and one of his children? I'm not jumping to conclusions, but if this is true it is going to be impossible for me to watch WWE for a long, long time.
I cried for a few minutes today when the show opened. Now, I'm crying a bit again. It was already a tragedy... but now it is on the verge of horror.
posted by andreaazure at 11:45 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
The biggest problem with the wrestling business is the people that are in it. So many of them are so full of themselves. They suck. Seriously. Not the people at the very top, but so many between them and the very bottom do.
But not Benoit.
I once worked for a licensor of WWE. I met Benoit at WrestleMania X7. I had three whole minutes the Saturday morning before the event, and he just was solid and... nice. Strange word, "nice."
And, now? He might have killed his wife and one of his children? I'm not jumping to conclusions, but if this is true it is going to be impossible for me to watch WWE for a long, long time.
I cried for a few minutes today when the show opened. Now, I'm crying a bit again. It was already a tragedy... but now it is on the verge of horror.
posted by andreaazure at 11:45 PM on June 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you liked the guy, it must be a shock. But save your grief for the woman and child he murdered.
posted by pracowity at 12:00 AM on June 26, 2007
posted by pracowity at 12:00 AM on June 26, 2007
To put some perspective into this for people who don't follow wrestling, you have to imagine an athlete or entertainer whose work you not only enjoy, but whose personal life and career have been widely regarded as the gold standard of the industry.
Yeah. To wrestling fans (and I'm not one, at least not for years) this would be like your average moviegoer opening up the paper to see that Tom Hanks was caught in the act of curb-stomping a grandmother to death. As far as personal reputation, in and out of the ring, Benoit was in a class by himself (with the aforementioned exception of, perhaps, Mick Foley).
This tragedy is difficult to get my head around.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:28 AM on June 26, 2007
Yeah. To wrestling fans (and I'm not one, at least not for years) this would be like your average moviegoer opening up the paper to see that Tom Hanks was caught in the act of curb-stomping a grandmother to death. As far as personal reputation, in and out of the ring, Benoit was in a class by himself (with the aforementioned exception of, perhaps, Mick Foley).
This tragedy is difficult to get my head around.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:28 AM on June 26, 2007
I was going to post this late last night when it first started breaking across the wrestling networks (first reported for me on LJ gossip community OhNoTheyDidn't where there are threads with hundreds of comments expressing the same kind of shock and disbelief here), but there was still a lot of people unsure about whether this was a sick storyline concocted by Vince McMahon (who will no doubt regret that choice for the rest of his life). It's still yet to hit mainstream news in the UK.
Just personally, I feel utterly utterly hammered by it - I was a hardcore wrestling fan growing up, he was very highly regarded throughout the industry, and having experienced a similar situation with a close friend of the family just under a year ago, it's completely unbelievable and devastating.
So why are we all crying for him?
Because something has obviously gone terribly terribly wrong for him and his family, and these situations are never made any easier by people spewing negativity. I don't think many people are crying for him as much as the horror of what has probably happened to this man.
RIP Benoit family.
posted by saturnine at 3:10 AM on June 26, 2007
Just personally, I feel utterly utterly hammered by it - I was a hardcore wrestling fan growing up, he was very highly regarded throughout the industry, and having experienced a similar situation with a close friend of the family just under a year ago, it's completely unbelievable and devastating.
So why are we all crying for him?
Because something has obviously gone terribly terribly wrong for him and his family, and these situations are never made any easier by people spewing negativity. I don't think many people are crying for him as much as the horror of what has probably happened to this man.
RIP Benoit family.
posted by saturnine at 3:10 AM on June 26, 2007
pracowity - word.
We have most of the facts yet, but it looks like this dude spent all weekend killing a woman and a child. I don't know if he needs any Very Special Tributes just yet.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:14 AM on June 26, 2007
We have most of the facts yet, but it looks like this dude spent all weekend killing a woman and a child. I don't know if he needs any Very Special Tributes just yet.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:14 AM on June 26, 2007
this was posted at Arstechnica:
Talic 2007-06-26 01:48:33 AM
Grain of salt, naturally. But this is coming from someone who lives in the area
A Cousin of a GBI (Georgia Bureau of Investigations) has heard in his circle is that Chris Benoit's wife killed their son Daniel, called Chris and told him to rush home because of an emergency which is why he missed last Sunday's Vengeance PPV. Upon arriving home Benoit killed his wife in a rage for the death of his son and then killed himself Monday morning. His wife's body was found in the master bedroom, strangled with the cord from an alarm clock. The son's body was found in his room apparently suffocated with a garbage bag. Chris then wrote a suicide note explaining what had happened, apologized to his family, his other children (from a separate relationship), and his fans. He then fashioned a slip-knot noose from from rope taken from the garage and hung himself from the banister in the foyer of his suburban Atlanta home.
posted by Shizman at 4:57 AM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Talic 2007-06-26 01:48:33 AM
Grain of salt, naturally. But this is coming from someone who lives in the area
A Cousin of a GBI (Georgia Bureau of Investigations) has heard in his circle is that Chris Benoit's wife killed their son Daniel, called Chris and told him to rush home because of an emergency which is why he missed last Sunday's Vengeance PPV. Upon arriving home Benoit killed his wife in a rage for the death of his son and then killed himself Monday morning. His wife's body was found in the master bedroom, strangled with the cord from an alarm clock. The son's body was found in his room apparently suffocated with a garbage bag. Chris then wrote a suicide note explaining what had happened, apologized to his family, his other children (from a separate relationship), and his fans. He then fashioned a slip-knot noose from from rope taken from the garage and hung himself from the banister in the foyer of his suburban Atlanta home.
posted by Shizman at 4:57 AM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think the world has gone mad.
Totally barking mad.
I'm to the point I don't wanna click on the news anymore because I am afraid to see what's next.
posted by konolia at 5:20 AM on June 26, 2007
Totally barking mad.
I'm to the point I don't wanna click on the news anymore because I am afraid to see what's next.
posted by konolia at 5:20 AM on June 26, 2007
John Lennon didn't murder anybody, but Chris Benoit did. So why are we all crying for him?
save your grief for the woman and child he murdered
I have plenty to go around, thanks. This bandwagon starts getting dragged around any time someone cracks and a tragedy like this results. That kind of unsympathetic, hard-nosed attitude at just the wrong time is often precisely what helps push people over the edge. Someone who by all accounts was a nice, generous, kind-hearted person getting to the point where they kill their family and then themselves is someone who needed help, and needed it before he got to this point. This was a tragedy for all concerned, including Chris Benoit. I have plenty of sympathy for everyone who is and was affected by this, and I think it's pretty sad that people have attitudes like those expressed above. Have some humanity, this isn't Ted Bundy we're talking about.
posted by biscotti at 5:23 AM on June 26, 2007 [5 favorites]
save your grief for the woman and child he murdered
I have plenty to go around, thanks. This bandwagon starts getting dragged around any time someone cracks and a tragedy like this results. That kind of unsympathetic, hard-nosed attitude at just the wrong time is often precisely what helps push people over the edge. Someone who by all accounts was a nice, generous, kind-hearted person getting to the point where they kill their family and then themselves is someone who needed help, and needed it before he got to this point. This was a tragedy for all concerned, including Chris Benoit. I have plenty of sympathy for everyone who is and was affected by this, and I think it's pretty sad that people have attitudes like those expressed above. Have some humanity, this isn't Ted Bundy we're talking about.
posted by biscotti at 5:23 AM on June 26, 2007 [5 favorites]
I'm to the point I don't wanna click on the news anymore because I am afraid to see what's next.
I certainly keep clicking, but sometimes I look at the individual pieces of what's going on out there and wonder how it's not total fucking chaos.
posted by Roman Graves at 6:29 AM on June 26, 2007
I certainly keep clicking, but sometimes I look at the individual pieces of what's going on out there and wonder how it's not total fucking chaos.
posted by Roman Graves at 6:29 AM on June 26, 2007
the theory shizman quoted, if true, ... i'm not sure if that would make it less horrible or more.
posted by vrakatar at 6:43 AM on June 26, 2007
My favorite Benoit memory is when he won the Royal Rumble a while back. We was the first in and the last out.
posted by WerewolvesRancheros at 6:56 AM on June 26, 2007
posted by WerewolvesRancheros at 6:56 AM on June 26, 2007
that is so tragic, the wolverine was one of my favorite wrestlers.
posted by parmanparman at 6:58 AM on June 26, 2007
posted by parmanparman at 6:58 AM on June 26, 2007
A violent man will die a violent death.
- Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching, Chapter 42
posted by rmmcclay at 7:12 AM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
- Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching, Chapter 42
posted by rmmcclay at 7:12 AM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Look, whether or not you think pro-wrestling is silly or stupid or whatever, for a lot of people it is a form of entertainment that is meaningful.
We are not talking about adults are we?
posted by caddis at 8:26 AM on June 26, 2007
We are not talking about adults are we?
posted by caddis at 8:26 AM on June 26, 2007
I'm sorry, caddis, but how is wrestling any different than car racing, other "real" sports, or even your favorite movies or TV shows with respect to having lots of people in the spotlight, a storyline (as with movies/TV shows), and people feeling connected to their favorite stars? Let us not be too condescending.
What happened is a tragic thing, but it's also tragic that some people refuse to grieve for a man who was clearly so deeply disturbed that it caused him to potentially kill 2 people and himself!
posted by odi.et.amo at 8:36 AM on June 26, 2007
What happened is a tragic thing, but it's also tragic that some people refuse to grieve for a man who was clearly so deeply disturbed that it caused him to potentially kill 2 people and himself!
posted by odi.et.amo at 8:36 AM on June 26, 2007
I read an article once that suggested that men who kill their entire families are sometimes motivated not by rage or revenge, but by guilt and a twisted kind of love. They're not classic abusers, and they generally don't have criminal histories. They feel an inflated sense of responsibility towards their families, and they feel like they've failed to live up to their responsibilities. They're suicidal, but it's impossible for them to imagine that their wives and children could survive without their support or could live with the grief and humiliation that would be caused by the husband/ father's failure and death. They think that their families would be better off dead than living with the consequences of their failures. It sounds like Benoit could possibly fit that profile.
Pro wrestling strikes me as pretty goofy, and I'd never heard of Benoit before he died. But I can't see making light of any event that ended in the deaths of three people, one of whom was a little kid. Whatever you think of the character Benoit played for a living, it doesn't detract from his humanity or that of his family. And I guess I'm willing to grieve for almost anyone, including people who have done unthinkable things.
posted by craichead at 9:13 AM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
Pro wrestling strikes me as pretty goofy, and I'd never heard of Benoit before he died. But I can't see making light of any event that ended in the deaths of three people, one of whom was a little kid. Whatever you think of the character Benoit played for a living, it doesn't detract from his humanity or that of his family. And I guess I'm willing to grieve for almost anyone, including people who have done unthinkable things.
posted by craichead at 9:13 AM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
caddis, I think you forgot the 'h' at the end of your name
posted by jtron at 2:15 PM on June 26, 2007
posted by jtron at 2:15 PM on June 26, 2007
Have some humanity, this isn't Ted Bundy we're talking about.
It sorta is, actually. Bundy never murdered children.
He was a steroid-addled freak. Grieve for your own lost innocence, wrestling fans, because that's died here, too.
The other thing to know about Benoit is that he really busted his ass to get where he was. He was billed at, I think, something like 5'11" 230 lbs. I'm betting that was with lifts in his boots. He was probably 5'9", 5'10".
Yeah, for a guy that small to be able to single-handedly murder a woman and a seven-year old is somethin'.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:19 PM on June 26, 2007
It sorta is, actually. Bundy never murdered children.
He was a steroid-addled freak. Grieve for your own lost innocence, wrestling fans, because that's died here, too.
The other thing to know about Benoit is that he really busted his ass to get where he was. He was billed at, I think, something like 5'11" 230 lbs. I'm betting that was with lifts in his boots. He was probably 5'9", 5'10".
Yeah, for a guy that small to be able to single-handedly murder a woman and a seven-year old is somethin'.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:19 PM on June 26, 2007
He strangled his wife friday (her feet & wrists bound), then suffocated his child on saturday, and as late as sunday he hung himself with the pulley of a piece of exercise equipment. What weird intervals for such an event, usually these things are reported as happening in a very short time frame, hours, or at least the same day.
posted by zarah at 2:25 PM on June 26, 2007
posted by zarah at 2:25 PM on June 26, 2007
"Yeah, he murdered a SEVEN YEAR OLD BOY, but did you see his moves in the ring?"
Again, not what I was saying. I'll let you reread my post. Keep trying until you can figure it out.
your wrestling "heroes" are often not "heroic" at all; you see their characters and what you can of their public personas ... and think he's this wonderful person. He wasn't. Innocence lost.
And I guess that never happens to anyone else in any other context. Nope, no one has ever been shocked to find out that someone who appeared to be a nice and good person ended up having powerful demons that caused them to do horrible things. I guess it's just naive to ever think that someone who seems to be a nice guy actually is a nice guy. I'll just start assuming everyone is satan.
posted by papakwanz at 4:06 PM on June 26, 2007
Again, not what I was saying. I'll let you reread my post. Keep trying until you can figure it out.
your wrestling "heroes" are often not "heroic" at all; you see their characters and what you can of their public personas ... and think he's this wonderful person. He wasn't. Innocence lost.
And I guess that never happens to anyone else in any other context. Nope, no one has ever been shocked to find out that someone who appeared to be a nice and good person ended up having powerful demons that caused them to do horrible things. I guess it's just naive to ever think that someone who seems to be a nice guy actually is a nice guy. I'll just start assuming everyone is satan.
posted by papakwanz at 4:06 PM on June 26, 2007
Innocence lost
So seeing as there isn't an industry, or social group or demographic that hasn't produced at least one person that was capable of sick and demented actions is it naive to assume any individual is a nice guy?
Even when, without fail, every single person who knew them said as much, even when the only past indication of not being a nice guy was four years ago with every indication that it was a one off that was since resolved?
Yeah it turns out he wasn't so nice but its a dick move to shit on people because they believed otherwise when thats what all the evidence suggested.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 4:23 PM on June 26, 2007
So seeing as there isn't an industry, or social group or demographic that hasn't produced at least one person that was capable of sick and demented actions is it naive to assume any individual is a nice guy?
Even when, without fail, every single person who knew them said as much, even when the only past indication of not being a nice guy was four years ago with every indication that it was a one off that was since resolved?
Yeah it turns out he wasn't so nice but its a dick move to shit on people because they believed otherwise when thats what all the evidence suggested.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 4:23 PM on June 26, 2007
Ya know guys, I am making fun of the "sport" of wrestling, but this story is very tragic. A family was ripped apart and now they are all gone. It doesn't get much darker than that.
posted by caddis at 6:48 PM on June 26, 2007
posted by caddis at 6:48 PM on June 26, 2007
It's still real to me damnit
posted by dhammond at 7:11 PM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by dhammond at 7:11 PM on June 26, 2007 [1 favorite]
I know what you were saying, dipshit, and it doesn't make him any less of a monster.
Well...murdered a seven year old boy...perfected the snap suplex...you gotta at least weigh it.
posted by Roman Graves at 7:36 PM on June 26, 2007
Well...murdered a seven year old boy...perfected the snap suplex...you gotta at least weigh it.
posted by Roman Graves at 7:36 PM on June 26, 2007
Mod note: a few comments removed. take your jackass and dipshit name calling to metatalk or email.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:44 AM on June 27, 2007
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:44 AM on June 27, 2007
What's troubling is that someone thought a "tribute" link need be posted here. Snuff yourself, I have sympathy. Kill your wife and child, and you've erased whatever commendable acts you performed in life.
posted by bigskyguy at 3:48 PM on June 27, 2007
posted by bigskyguy at 3:48 PM on June 27, 2007
bigskyguy: Please look at the time of the original post (7:48 PM Pacific on Monday) before you jump all over the poster of the tribute. Confirmation that it was a murder-suicide didn't occur until later... around 8:30 PM Pacific.
posted by MegoSteve at 10:08 PM on June 27, 2007
posted by MegoSteve at 10:08 PM on June 27, 2007
Confirmation, yes. But a google time search indicates a number of news reports at that time stated it was being investigated as a murder-suicide.
posted by bigskyguy at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2007
posted by bigskyguy at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2007
[In response to the closed thread about his wikipedia article being changed to reflect his wife's death 13 hours before it had happened.]
If you look at other edits by that same Connecticut IP address, most of them are just vandalizing other wrestler's wikipedia entries. He (I'll call them a "he" for the sake of convenience) has edited wikipedia to call certain wrestlers a "nigger", a "crack addict and a rapist" and how sexy they are.
Clearly, this guy is just some vandalizing jerk. But it is still a strange coincidence that he would write about Benoit's wife's death before it happened (especially since, compared to his other edits, it was so tame).
posted by Zephyrial at 1:30 PM on June 28, 2007
If you look at other edits by that same Connecticut IP address, most of them are just vandalizing other wrestler's wikipedia entries. He (I'll call them a "he" for the sake of convenience) has edited wikipedia to call certain wrestlers a "nigger", a "crack addict and a rapist" and how sexy they are.
Clearly, this guy is just some vandalizing jerk. But it is still a strange coincidence that he would write about Benoit's wife's death before it happened (especially since, compared to his other edits, it was so tame).
posted by Zephyrial at 1:30 PM on June 28, 2007
As far as I can tell from the chronology, the wife was dead when that post was made, but the police hadn't found the corpses yet.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 2:03 PM on June 28, 2007
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 2:03 PM on June 28, 2007
Speaking of timing of the news: Death of Nancy Benoit rumour posted on Wikipedia hours prior to body being found
posted by caddis at 2:24 PM on June 28, 2007
posted by caddis at 2:24 PM on June 28, 2007
Um, yeah.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 3:03 PM on June 28, 2007
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 3:03 PM on June 28, 2007
If you look at other edits by that same Connecticut IP address, most of them are just vandalizing other wrestler's wikipedia entries.
I'd say this matches the "profile" much more closely than, say, the fateful edit being accompanied by a bunch of iPhone vandalism, talk page flamewars about whether "Arcade Fire" should be preceded by a definite article, and 1000+ edits on early Polynesian settlement and technologies.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:35 AM on June 29, 2007
I'd say this matches the "profile" much more closely than, say, the fateful edit being accompanied by a bunch of iPhone vandalism, talk page flamewars about whether "Arcade Fire" should be preceded by a definite article, and 1000+ edits on early Polynesian settlement and technologies.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:35 AM on June 29, 2007
Editor confesses, claims "terrible coincidence".
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:55 AM on June 29, 2007
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:55 AM on June 29, 2007
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posted by dhammond at 7:51 PM on June 25, 2007