Homeland Security Gets Personal
July 28, 2007 9:39 AM Subscribe
The United States and the European Union have agreed to expand a security program that shares personal data about millions of U.S.-bound airline passengers a year. Information that potentially can be used includes "racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, trade union membership" and data about an individual's health, traveling partners and sexual orientation. "Even a request for a king-size bed at a hotel could be noted in the database." "E.U.'s privacy supervisor expressed 'grave concern' over whether the rules 'will be fully compatible with European fundamental rights,' calling the arrangement 'without legal precedent.'"
This program along with the FBI's intent on recruiting 15,000 Americans to act as informants within the U.S. and broader and more extensive domestic surveillance referenced in Congressional hearings this week is raising serious civil liberty concerns. "...Even government officials with experience since 9/11 are nagged by anxiety about the jeopardy that a war without end against unseen terrorists poses to our way of life, our personal freedoms."*
posted by ericb at 9:49 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 9:49 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
religious or philosophical beliefs
I can't wait to write Apatheist on their form.
Immigration jarhead person: 'What's that mean?'
Me: 'I don't care.'
posted by chuckdarwin at 10:03 AM on July 28, 2007 [7 favorites]
I can't wait to write Apatheist on their form.
Immigration jarhead person: 'What's that mean?'
Me: 'I don't care.'
posted by chuckdarwin at 10:03 AM on July 28, 2007 [7 favorites]
SUBJECT: AVENGER. WHITE, LIBERAL, AGNOSTIC, EXISTENTIALIST, LISTENS TO AMBIENT ELECTRONICA, LIKES FLUFFY PILLOWS.
OMEGA-LEVEL RISK. DETAIN IMMEDIATELY.
posted by Avenger at 10:04 AM on July 28, 2007
OMEGA-LEVEL RISK. DETAIN IMMEDIATELY.
posted by Avenger at 10:04 AM on July 28, 2007
I read about this before. It seems like every day there's some new incursion on our liberty.
Things are broken. I can't see how they'll ever get fixed.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:14 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Things are broken. I can't see how they'll ever get fixed.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:14 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Things are broken. I can't see how they'll ever get fixed.
By voting.
...ahahahaha, oh, I'm sorry, just couldn't keep a straight face.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:16 AM on July 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
By voting.
...ahahahaha, oh, I'm sorry, just couldn't keep a straight face.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:16 AM on July 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
"The data will be used only for the purpose of preventing and combating terrorism and related offences and other serious offences that are transnational in nature."
Unfortunately 'terrorism' is a vague term and the US has a record of easily expanding the term.
"The sensitive data (i.e. data revealing racial or ethnic origin) must be filtered and deleted unless the data is accessed for an exceptional case. In that event, the Commission will be informed that such data have been accessed."
Yes, I believe the Commission will be notified by the CIA. Because that's just the kind of organisation that they are.
Spineless gits.
posted by jouke at 10:16 AM on July 28, 2007
Unfortunately 'terrorism' is a vague term and the US has a record of easily expanding the term.
"The sensitive data (i.e. data revealing racial or ethnic origin) must be filtered and deleted unless the data is accessed for an exceptional case. In that event, the Commission will be informed that such data have been accessed."
Yes, I believe the Commission will be notified by the CIA. Because that's just the kind of organisation that they are.
Spineless gits.
posted by jouke at 10:16 AM on July 28, 2007
Insane... The War on TerrorTourists marches on? Why is Europe agreeing to this, especially since the EU Constitution prohibits it, along with most of the member countries?
Sexual Orientation? Union Membership??? It would have helped to know that Atta was Bi or something?????
...U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff praised the pact as an "essential screening tool for detecting potentially dangerous transatlantic travelers." If available at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Chertoff said, such information would have, "within a matter of moments, helped to identify many of the 19 hijackers ...
Absolutely wrong, and the start of a vastly expanded database not just on us Americans, but on the world. It's time for Europeans to boycott travel here--money is the only thing that can make a difference.
posted by amberglow at 10:21 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Sexual Orientation? Union Membership??? It would have helped to know that Atta was Bi or something?????
...U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff praised the pact as an "essential screening tool for detecting potentially dangerous transatlantic travelers." If available at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Chertoff said, such information would have, "within a matter of moments, helped to identify many of the 19 hijackers ...
Absolutely wrong, and the start of a vastly expanded database not just on us Americans, but on the world. It's time for Europeans to boycott travel here--money is the only thing that can make a difference.
posted by amberglow at 10:21 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
The Stasi was founded in 1950. By the time East Germany collapsed in 1989, it was estimated that 91,000 full-time employees and 300,000 informants were employed.
"Worse than the Gestapo." —Simon Wiesenthal, Nazi hunter
posted by adamvasco at 10:23 AM on July 28, 2007
"Worse than the Gestapo." —Simon Wiesenthal, Nazi hunter
posted by adamvasco at 10:23 AM on July 28, 2007
It's time for Europeans to boycott travel here--money is the only thing that can make a difference.
I know people who refuse to visit the US on grounds of principle.
I don't know wether I'll go through with my planned NY trip.
posted by jouke at 10:23 AM on July 28, 2007
I know people who refuse to visit the US on grounds of principle.
I don't know wether I'll go through with my planned NY trip.
posted by jouke at 10:23 AM on July 28, 2007
This program along with the FBI's intent on recruiting 15,000 Americans to act as informants within the U.S.
That STASI thing too is disgusting, and will just lead to more scared white people reporting all Arabs. We'll see ethnic cleansing here if anyone doesn't want them living next door.
I'd say we're moving into 1935 around now.
posted by amberglow at 10:24 AM on July 28, 2007
That STASI thing too is disgusting, and will just lead to more scared white people reporting all Arabs. We'll see ethnic cleansing here if anyone doesn't want them living next door.
I'd say we're moving into 1935 around now.
posted by amberglow at 10:24 AM on July 28, 2007
I know people who refuse to visit the US on grounds of principle.
jouke, it's funny, too, because us in NYC are against all this shit, and get the lion's share of Europeans (along with FL)--but because the dollar's so weak, there are record numbers coming even tho the airport hassles are already enormous for them.
posted by amberglow at 10:27 AM on July 28, 2007
jouke, it's funny, too, because us in NYC are against all this shit, and get the lion's share of Europeans (along with FL)--but because the dollar's so weak, there are record numbers coming even tho the airport hassles are already enormous for them.
posted by amberglow at 10:27 AM on July 28, 2007
Art. 8 ECHR, anyone?
The EU is allowed to infringe upon the right to privacy, but only for the reasons given in art.8(2). However, they're supposed to balance the reason for infringing the right with the harm infringing it would cause. In this case, I don't think a satisfactory balance has been struck.
I wonder how the majority of Europeans will feel about this. I can't find anything on Le Monde as yet. Generally, the EU has higher levels of data-protection than the US. Seems to have been surrendered in this case. It's also a pretty sneaky way for the US to gather data on its own citizens, although I suspect it's the Europeans who are getting the thin end of the wedge.
PS - there is no EU Constitution. They want to introduce one though after the first failed attempt, but that's a different issue
posted by djgh at 10:28 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
The EU is allowed to infringe upon the right to privacy, but only for the reasons given in art.8(2). However, they're supposed to balance the reason for infringing the right with the harm infringing it would cause. In this case, I don't think a satisfactory balance has been struck.
I wonder how the majority of Europeans will feel about this. I can't find anything on Le Monde as yet. Generally, the EU has higher levels of data-protection than the US. Seems to have been surrendered in this case. It's also a pretty sneaky way for the US to gather data on its own citizens, although I suspect it's the Europeans who are getting the thin end of the wedge.
PS - there is no EU Constitution. They want to introduce one though after the first failed attempt, but that's a different issue
posted by djgh at 10:28 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Union Membership???
Don't forget that right after the terr'ists, the second most dangerous people are... communists!
posted by uncle harold at 10:29 AM on July 28, 2007
Don't forget that right after the terr'ists, the second most dangerous people are... communists!
posted by uncle harold at 10:29 AM on July 28, 2007
Don't forget that right after the terr'ists, the second most dangerous people are... communists!
With the shrinking of the middle class the continued motion of wealth from the bottom to the top, I'd be pretty worried about the possibility of mass sentiment against, too.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:31 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
With the shrinking of the middle class the continued motion of wealth from the bottom to the top, I'd be pretty worried about the possibility of mass sentiment against, too.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:31 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Hey, don't forget. We face the threat of foreigners joining the lesbian gangs that are marauding the U.S. This is prudent policy at work.
posted by ericb at 10:33 AM on July 28, 2007
posted by ericb at 10:33 AM on July 28, 2007
If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear but fear itself, oh and watch out for the boot stamping on your face, you'll probably need to fear that as well.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:35 AM on July 28, 2007
posted by blue_beetle at 10:35 AM on July 28, 2007
PS - there is no EU Constitution. They want to introduce one though after the first failed attempt, but that's a different issue
Sorry--i know there's stuff against this tho. Don't all entering and existing EU members have to agree to all human rights and privacy regs or laws or whatever they are?
posted by amberglow at 10:39 AM on July 28, 2007
Sorry--i know there's stuff against this tho. Don't all entering and existing EU members have to agree to all human rights and privacy regs or laws or whatever they are?
posted by amberglow at 10:39 AM on July 28, 2007
SUBJECT: AVENGER. WHITE, LIBERAL, AGNOSTIC, EXISTENTIALIST, LISTENS TO AMBIENT ELECTRONICA, LIKES FLUFFY PILLOWS.
Subject: Mustafa Mohammad Ben Ladin. Arab. Politics: Unknown. Religion: Unknown. Number of Previous Flights: 0. Meal: Halal. Seat Preference: Aisle.
ALPHA-LEVEL RISK. RISK FOR RACIAL PROFILING LAWSUIT. DO NOT DETAIN.
posted by three blind mice at 10:40 AM on July 28, 2007
Subject: Mustafa Mohammad Ben Ladin. Arab. Politics: Unknown. Religion: Unknown. Number of Previous Flights: 0. Meal: Halal. Seat Preference: Aisle.
ALPHA-LEVEL RISK. RISK FOR RACIAL PROFILING LAWSUIT. DO NOT DETAIN.
posted by three blind mice at 10:40 AM on July 28, 2007
SUBJECT: AVENGER. WHITE, LIBERAL, AGNOSTIC, EXISTENTIALIST, LISTENS TO AMBIENT ELECTRONICA.
posted by Avenger
Under a different light, this information could be used for better seating arrangements in airplanes. Imagine never having to seat next to some hard-core believer who only listens to U2 again.
posted by micayetoca at 10:44 AM on July 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Avenger
Under a different light, this information could be used for better seating arrangements in airplanes. Imagine never having to seat next to some hard-core believer who only listens to U2 again.
posted by micayetoca at 10:44 AM on July 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
Wow. If I were European I would definitely not travel to the US and really make a stink of this with the officials who said this was OK. EU citizens should demand their privacy rights to stop this AND require a reciprocal agreement on flights originating in the United States a condition of this program.
The EU is worried if they don't kowtow the the US demands, then BA, Lufthansa, Air France et al planes won't be able to land in the Land of the Free(r). But American, Delta, United and Continental would get their lobbyists on the phone right away if their flights couldn't land in the EU.
I really wish the EU would have told the US to go fuck itself.
The Department of Homeland Security can't find its own dick, let alone be find evildoers among these lists or be responsible with people's personal data.
If this is such a threat, then the best thing to do is cancel the visa waiver program and make everyone flying to and from Europe get a visa before entering the US. The State Department can vet the evildoers since they are so good at it [oh, wait 100% of the 9/11 hijackers entered the US legally].
This does not make anything safer. It just shows the stupidity is spreading.
posted by birdherder at 10:52 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
The EU is worried if they don't kowtow the the US demands, then BA, Lufthansa, Air France et al planes won't be able to land in the Land of the Free(r). But American, Delta, United and Continental would get their lobbyists on the phone right away if their flights couldn't land in the EU.
I really wish the EU would have told the US to go fuck itself.
The Department of Homeland Security can't find its own dick, let alone be find evildoers among these lists or be responsible with people's personal data.
If this is such a threat, then the best thing to do is cancel the visa waiver program and make everyone flying to and from Europe get a visa before entering the US. The State Department can vet the evildoers since they are so good at it [oh, wait 100% of the 9/11 hijackers entered the US legally].
This does not make anything safer. It just shows the stupidity is spreading.
posted by birdherder at 10:52 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yes, member states are expected to ratify the ECHR. However, it's not so clear-cut as to be out-and-out binding. Firstly, for the ECHR to be truly effective, it has to be transposed into domestic law, as the EU does not share a common legal system. Otherwise, affirming your rights takes ages, as you have to go via the European courts.
Secondly, the member states can choose to derogate (i.e. not apply) certain ECHR rights at certain times - see art.15. Obviously there are all sorts of issues surrounding this, but it can be done. If memory serves, the UK did this in the aftermath of Sept 11 in order to detain terror suspects.
Thirdly, there is no order of rights in the ECHR. No right has priority. So when you come to rights that conflict (freedom of expression v privacy, for example), the courts are supposed to balance the rights. The same occurs when a member state wants to limit the right. Various allowances are made to do so, and again, it's a balancing act. It's this that is the important bit - what factors are taken into account, and how well this is done. And this is obviously more subjective.
Oh, and I'm fairly certain that citizens can only bring an action against the state/EU on the basis of their rights if their rights have been infringed. So you can only have redress if you've suffered some harm.
It's been a while since I've dealt with all this though (wish I had my files with me), and I mainly concentrated on the impact on member states rather than the EU as a whole. Someone may be along to correct me shortly.
posted by djgh at 10:57 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
Secondly, the member states can choose to derogate (i.e. not apply) certain ECHR rights at certain times - see art.15. Obviously there are all sorts of issues surrounding this, but it can be done. If memory serves, the UK did this in the aftermath of Sept 11 in order to detain terror suspects.
Thirdly, there is no order of rights in the ECHR. No right has priority. So when you come to rights that conflict (freedom of expression v privacy, for example), the courts are supposed to balance the rights. The same occurs when a member state wants to limit the right. Various allowances are made to do so, and again, it's a balancing act. It's this that is the important bit - what factors are taken into account, and how well this is done. And this is obviously more subjective.
Oh, and I'm fairly certain that citizens can only bring an action against the state/EU on the basis of their rights if their rights have been infringed. So you can only have redress if you've suffered some harm.
It's been a while since I've dealt with all this though (wish I had my files with me), and I mainly concentrated on the impact on member states rather than the EU as a whole. Someone may be along to correct me shortly.
posted by djgh at 10:57 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
I did a quick search of online dutch and german papers. The matter is mentioned in small 'other news' kind of articles.
One article mentioned that The European Parlement was opposed to this but has no say in the matter. Now national parlements will have to decide.
Strange sequence: first strike the deal and then ask EU nations what they want.
posted by jouke at 11:07 AM on July 28, 2007
One article mentioned that The European Parlement was opposed to this but has no say in the matter. Now national parlements will have to decide.
Strange sequence: first strike the deal and then ask EU nations what they want.
posted by jouke at 11:07 AM on July 28, 2007
"The data will be used only for the purpose of preventing and combating terrorism and related offences and other serious offences that are transnational in nature."
Liars. The moment you started asking for information about sexual orientation, we can see that you are planning on using this as some kind of moralistic tracking tool.
U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff praised the pact as an "essential screening tool for detecting potentially dangerous transatlantic travelers."
And fags. We want to keep an eye on them too.
What the fuck does my 'philosophical beliefs' have to do with my ability to fly internationally? Because I may disagree with the Hobbsian view, I can't go to France or something?
Fuck these people.
posted by quin at 11:14 AM on July 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
Liars. The moment you started asking for information about sexual orientation, we can see that you are planning on using this as some kind of moralistic tracking tool.
U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff praised the pact as an "essential screening tool for detecting potentially dangerous transatlantic travelers."
And fags. We want to keep an eye on them too.
What the fuck does my 'philosophical beliefs' have to do with my ability to fly internationally? Because I may disagree with the Hobbsian view, I can't go to France or something?
Fuck these people.
posted by quin at 11:14 AM on July 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
If this was a normal country and they were simply asking for (and not mandating) this info for marketing and tourism purposes, it'd be ok, but we all know that it won't be put to any good or even decent purposes.
There's absolutely no security risk in most of not all of these details wanted, and by adding them into the pot, it really turns all who differ even slightly from the majority into security risks. We've seen already discrimination against visitors with HIV--will they now assume all gay male travelers have it, and act accordingly? What possible real justification do they have for most of these criteria specified?
posted by amberglow at 11:18 AM on July 28, 2007
There's absolutely no security risk in most of not all of these details wanted, and by adding them into the pot, it really turns all who differ even slightly from the majority into security risks. We've seen already discrimination against visitors with HIV--will they now assume all gay male travelers have it, and act accordingly? What possible real justification do they have for most of these criteria specified?
posted by amberglow at 11:18 AM on July 28, 2007
Can't you just not tell your own EU government these things, so they can't share them with anyone?
posted by smackfu at 11:25 AM on July 28, 2007
posted by smackfu at 11:25 AM on July 28, 2007
Imagine the money to be made from targeted ads during the customs interrogations.
posted by Brian B. at 11:32 AM on July 28, 2007
posted by Brian B. at 11:32 AM on July 28, 2007
Heh, Brian B. You're right. The terrorism thing is just a front. It's all about targeted advertising.
posted by jouke at 11:35 AM on July 28, 2007
posted by jouke at 11:35 AM on July 28, 2007
smackfu, from what I can see, it relates to the info you give the airline when you make a reservation.
On further reading of some of the documents linked to here, it seems like this is going to be accomplished by having the EU issue a directive to the member states, whereby the states have to comply to the desired end result by a certain date, but by whatever means they think are suitable. So there could be quite a few separate cases in various member states that eventually end up in the European Court of Human rights.
Now I really wish I had my notes with me.
posted by djgh at 11:38 AM on July 28, 2007
On further reading of some of the documents linked to here, it seems like this is going to be accomplished by having the EU issue a directive to the member states, whereby the states have to comply to the desired end result by a certain date, but by whatever means they think are suitable. So there could be quite a few separate cases in various member states that eventually end up in the European Court of Human rights.
Now I really wish I had my notes with me.
posted by djgh at 11:38 AM on July 28, 2007
Hmm...I can't decide between cultivating an online/consumer alias or just joining every group that has a free membership. Surely it can't be illegal to fill the databases with as much noise as to make it worthless, or at least worth less.
posted by troybob at 11:43 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by troybob at 11:43 AM on July 28, 2007 [1 favorite]
OK, the article says: Under the agreement, airlines flying from Europe to the United States are required to provide data related to these matters to U.S. authorities if it exists in their reservation systems.
I've yet to encounter a reservation system that has asked for my religious affiliation or sexual orientation; never had to provide that info for my US passport, Chinese visa, EU travels, etc....why are those being mentioned? Will airlines now start asking for that information?
posted by LooseFilter at 11:52 AM on July 28, 2007
I've yet to encounter a reservation system that has asked for my religious affiliation or sexual orientation; never had to provide that info for my US passport, Chinese visa, EU travels, etc....why are those being mentioned? Will airlines now start asking for that information?
posted by LooseFilter at 11:52 AM on July 28, 2007
(yes, I know it goes on to say: or through routine questioning by airline personnel and travel agents about contacts, lodging, next of kin and traveling companions...., but I've never been asked that kind of stuff either)
posted by LooseFilter at 11:55 AM on July 28, 2007
posted by LooseFilter at 11:55 AM on July 28, 2007
Loose: Reservation systems (all airline databases) have enormous amounts of data already, i believe (frequent flyer programs, rental car and hotel programs, all credit card info and banking info, credit agency info, etc--all are connected to the credit card you use to fly and to other databases of purchases and interests for most people)
posted by amberglow at 12:00 PM on July 28, 2007
posted by amberglow at 12:00 PM on July 28, 2007
It's time for Europeans to boycott travel here--money is the only thing that can make a difference.
I haven't visited since 2002. For the ten years prior to that, I was in the USA at least twice a year.
I'm really tempted, given how low the dollar is, but fuck 'em.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:06 PM on July 28, 2007
I haven't visited since 2002. For the ten years prior to that, I was in the USA at least twice a year.
I'm really tempted, given how low the dollar is, but fuck 'em.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:06 PM on July 28, 2007
All US citizens flying overseas (anywhere?) have had to fill out a card at the desk/gate about next-of-kin and stuff--for years now (But not that other info). And many countries require more info of foreigners when you land--hotel name and address and length and reason of stay and return flight, etc.
It's demanding the totally unrelated info that's wrong. No one objects to necessary and related info.
posted by amberglow at 12:10 PM on July 28, 2007
It's demanding the totally unrelated info that's wrong. No one objects to necessary and related info.
posted by amberglow at 12:10 PM on July 28, 2007
I wonder if they'll flag people who return from an Atlantis Event, or an RSVP Vacation and those who book travel to/from the U.S. via American Airlines Rainbow Vacations, British Airways Gay Events and Orbitz Gay Travel Packages.
posted by ericb at 12:11 PM on July 28, 2007
posted by ericb at 12:11 PM on July 28, 2007
It goes beyond that just airlines comply (like telecom and internet and financial companies already have in terms of our info and the Feds, thanks to the Patriot Act and all the spying programs).
This is them trying to collect all info worldwide on everyone:
Bush Wants Terrorism Law Updated...``Our intelligence community warns that under the current statute, we are missing a significant amount of foreign intelligence that we should be collecting to protect our country,' Bush said. ...
posted by amberglow at 12:18 PM on July 28, 2007
This is them trying to collect all info worldwide on everyone:
Bush Wants Terrorism Law Updated...``Our intelligence community warns that under the current statute, we are missing a significant amount of foreign intelligence that we should be collecting to protect our country,' Bush said. ...
posted by amberglow at 12:18 PM on July 28, 2007
I bet people who order Halal meals will be immediately targeted, and any group of single men who sit apart from each other.
posted by amberglow at 12:20 PM on July 28, 2007
posted by amberglow at 12:20 PM on July 28, 2007
I wrote a letter detailing my concerns about this to my MEPs using writetothem.com. If you're in the UK, you should too.
posted by Drexen at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2007
posted by Drexen at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2007
Guardian Unlimited | The Observer: Alarm at US Right to Highly Personal Data
"Under the new agreement, which goes live at the end of this month, the US will be able to hold the records of European passengers for 15 years compared with the current three year limit.posted by ericb at 12:38 PM on July 28, 2007
...'Data on EU citizens will be readily accessible to a broad range of US agencies and there is no limitation to what US authorities are allowed to do with the data.'
...The new agreement will see US authorities gain access to detailed passenger information, from credit card details to home addresses and even what sort of food may have been ordered before a flight. In addition, US authorities will be free to add other information they have obtained about a passenger, leading to concerns about how the information will be shared.
...'If you are going to have this kind of agreement it should involve parliament and the data protection supervisor,' said Tony Bunyan of Statewatch, the civil liberties organisation that campaigns against excessive surveillance.
He warned that under the new system the data will be shared with numerous US agencies. 'The data protection supervisor and the European parliament are angry that they were not consulted,' Bunyan said. 'But they are also angry with a number of elements of the plan such as giving the US the absolute right to pass the data on to third parties.'
Simon Davies, director of Privacy International, another group that campaigns against state surveillance, said the new agreement gave huge powers to the US authorities. 'We have no guarantee about how this data will be used,' Davies said.
A spokeswoman for the Information Commissioner's Office in England and Wales said it would be discussing the matter with European counterparts shortly. 'We are working with the European Data Protection Supervisor and our other EU data protection colleagues to come to a joint opinion on the level of data protection set out in the final agreement,' the spokeswoman said."
While The Information Awareness Office, established in January 2002, was defunded by Congress in 2003, numerous projects formerly run under IAO have continued under different funding.
Total Information Awareness.
Data Mining and Domestic Security: Connecting the Dots to Make Sense of Data.
posted by ericb at 12:49 PM on July 28, 2007
Total Information Awareness.
Data Mining and Domestic Security: Connecting the Dots to Make Sense of Data.
posted by ericb at 12:49 PM on July 28, 2007
Guardian Unlimited | The Observer: Alarm at US Right to Highly Personal Data
Heh, interesting counterpoint to The Guardian's original take:
Heh, interesting counterpoint to The Guardian's original take:
The United States and the European Union signed an agreement Thursday that reduces the amount of information provided U.S. authorities about airline passengers before they arrive from Europe.posted by djgh at 12:50 PM on July 28, 2007
I did a quick search of online dutch and german papers. The matter is mentioned in small 'other news' kind of articles.
Süddeutsche and Spiegel both have longish articles about it. What confuses me is that both German articles say that the only changes are that the data are restructured and that the information will be stored for much longer, while the Washington Post article sounds a lot more dramatic.
I haven't been to the USA since 2000 and I wasn't planning on ever going back, but now two friends of mine are starting grad school in New York and California and I'm torn. I wonder whether flying into Canada/Mexico and then crossing the border by car allow me to avoid giving fingerprints etc., all the articles only seem to mention international flights...
posted by snownoid at 1:51 PM on July 28, 2007
Süddeutsche and Spiegel both have longish articles about it. What confuses me is that both German articles say that the only changes are that the data are restructured and that the information will be stored for much longer, while the Washington Post article sounds a lot more dramatic.
I haven't been to the USA since 2000 and I wasn't planning on ever going back, but now two friends of mine are starting grad school in New York and California and I'm torn. I wonder whether flying into Canada/Mexico and then crossing the border by car allow me to avoid giving fingerprints etc., all the articles only seem to mention international flights...
posted by snownoid at 1:51 PM on July 28, 2007
In other airline security news: TSA knew 'dry run' terror alerts were bogus
The Nexus Of Terror And Politics - Creating Terror Scares
posted by homunculus at 2:01 PM on July 28, 2007
The Nexus Of Terror And Politics - Creating Terror Scares
posted by homunculus at 2:01 PM on July 28, 2007
I wonder whether flying into Canada/Mexico and then crossing the border by car allow me to avoid giving fingerprints etc., all the articles only seem to mention international flights...
The US-VISIT program takes digital fingerscans to match you to those of your visa.
"US-VISIT biometric entry procedures are currently in place at 116 airports, 15 seaports and in the secondary inspection areas of 154 land ports of entry."
US-VISIT: Current Ports of Entry.
posted by ericb at 2:39 PM on July 28, 2007
The US-VISIT program takes digital fingerscans to match you to those of your visa.
"US-VISIT biometric entry procedures are currently in place at 116 airports, 15 seaports and in the secondary inspection areas of 154 land ports of entry."
US-VISIT: Current Ports of Entry.
posted by ericb at 2:39 PM on July 28, 2007
Oh goodie, this surfaces the day after I drop £600 on a ticket to the US for Christmas.
It's time for Europeans to boycott travel here--money is the only thing that can make a difference.
posted by amberglow at 6:21 PM on July 28
Pfft, and ignore the exchange rate? I'm in ur country, buying ur goods, two dollars to the pound.
But seriously: when it comes to the idea of boycotting any visits to the US, I have the frustrating response of "I would if I could, but I can't". When I work in a low paid, easily replaced section of the job market and I still live at home with my Mum, it's a lot more straightforward for me to be travelling (and a lot cheaper) than my boyfriend, who lives independently and has a future of steady jobs.
I'm just lucky enough to be generic white/British/female with previous visits to the US (mugshots, fingerprints, previous visits to the same person) to hopefully pass through without any hassle. At least, that's what I'll keep telling myself.
posted by saturnine at 2:55 PM on July 28, 2007
It's time for Europeans to boycott travel here--money is the only thing that can make a difference.
posted by amberglow at 6:21 PM on July 28
Pfft, and ignore the exchange rate? I'm in ur country, buying ur goods, two dollars to the pound.
But seriously: when it comes to the idea of boycotting any visits to the US, I have the frustrating response of "I would if I could, but I can't". When I work in a low paid, easily replaced section of the job market and I still live at home with my Mum, it's a lot more straightforward for me to be travelling (and a lot cheaper) than my boyfriend, who lives independently and has a future of steady jobs.
I'm just lucky enough to be generic white/British/female with previous visits to the US (mugshots, fingerprints, previous visits to the same person) to hopefully pass through without any hassle. At least, that's what I'll keep telling myself.
posted by saturnine at 2:55 PM on July 28, 2007
In related news --
Earlier this week airports were warned by the TSA of possible terrorists' dry runs to test airport screenings for explosives.
It turns out that 66-year-old Sarah Weiss had in her checked suitcase ice packs (for her bad back) and with which she has been travelling for 20 years. A Hazmat team was brought to the scene to test the icepacks. She was surrounded by police at the San Diego airport. And during three-hours of detetion and interrogation, the first question asked of her: "Do you know Osama bin Laden?" Her answer: "I wish I knew where he was because I would love to have that multimillion dollar bounty on his head."
The other "dry runs?" All bogus and the TSA knew they were.
Be very, very afraid!
posted by ericb at 3:04 PM on July 28, 2007
Earlier this week airports were warned by the TSA of possible terrorists' dry runs to test airport screenings for explosives.
It turns out that 66-year-old Sarah Weiss had in her checked suitcase ice packs (for her bad back) and with which she has been travelling for 20 years. A Hazmat team was brought to the scene to test the icepacks. She was surrounded by police at the San Diego airport. And during three-hours of detetion and interrogation, the first question asked of her: "Do you know Osama bin Laden?" Her answer: "I wish I knew where he was because I would love to have that multimillion dollar bounty on his head."
The other "dry runs?" All bogus and the TSA knew they were.
Be very, very afraid!
posted by ericb at 3:04 PM on July 28, 2007
I'm just lucky enough to be generic white/British/female with previous visits to the US (mugshots, fingerprints, previous visits to the same person) to hopefully pass through without any hassle.
Just leave the ice packs and blocks of cheese at home (and not in your luggage)!
posted by ericb at 3:06 PM on July 28, 2007
Just leave the ice packs and blocks of cheese at home (and not in your luggage)!
posted by ericb at 3:06 PM on July 28, 2007
Dear Europeans,
I apologize for not working harder to elect Kerry.
posted by orthogonality at 4:42 PM on July 28, 2007
I apologize for not working harder to elect Kerry.
posted by orthogonality at 4:42 PM on July 28, 2007
I am really not happy that my new job is going to require me to head down into the USA to visit HQ. I have no desire to share my personal information with the US neo-stasi.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:17 PM on July 28, 2007
posted by five fresh fish at 5:17 PM on July 28, 2007
Heh, Brian B. You're right. The terrorism thing is just a front. It's all about targeted advertising.
My abstract point was that we should focus on the bomb or the gun instead. People will always find a way in. It's relatively easy to fool a system designed to find a motive.
posted by Brian B. at 7:39 PM on July 28, 2007
My abstract point was that we should focus on the bomb or the gun instead. People will always find a way in. It's relatively easy to fool a system designed to find a motive.
posted by Brian B. at 7:39 PM on July 28, 2007
fyi, airlines have increased the amount of information requested even for those flying out of the country, not just into the country. i'm a US green card holder and resident of CA, when I purchased a round trip on Singapore Airlines in May I had to fill in everything from my Resident Alien # [on the green card] to details of my previous three passports. Similarly i've been attempting to purchase a ticket for a friend to visit singapore from the US and would have to submit an indemification [sp?] form here at the airline office if the purchase is made on my credit card and not hers.
posted by infini at 1:28 AM on July 29, 2007
posted by infini at 1:28 AM on July 29, 2007
I'm also a US green card holder.. When flying from Germany to New York the American airline asked me, or rather gave me a 10 minute interview about my reasons for being in Germany. They demanded documents to prove it (which I grudgingly gave and they took away for some minutes, I assume to scan them).. What can one do in that situation, besides not fly? It was shameful.
But I guess that's how they can and will figure out philosophical/sexual/other private information on persons flying to the US, since people here were wondering about this up-thread. Unless you lie about your reasons for flying, it'll be on the record.
posted by romanb at 9:04 AM on July 29, 2007
But I guess that's how they can and will figure out philosophical/sexual/other private information on persons flying to the US, since people here were wondering about this up-thread. Unless you lie about your reasons for flying, it'll be on the record.
posted by romanb at 9:04 AM on July 29, 2007
So, new congress, new party in control, and nothing is changed. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Uh huh.
Yep, I can see that knowing whether someone is gay is vital to American security interests. Especially when they decide to get around to rounding up the fags for indefinite detention. But few will scream about it, so long as they leave the Jews alone. Everyone knows, it's only fascism if they attack the Jews.
I don't want to travel to the states, and I'm a citizen. A gay citizen. I'm even troubled that I have to visit the embassy soon to renew my passport, having been away for nearly 10 years. This shit is scary, simple as that. Especially scary since it just continues, in spite of the supposed advantage of a Democratic majority in Congress.
posted by Goofyy at 11:17 PM on July 29, 2007
Yep, I can see that knowing whether someone is gay is vital to American security interests. Especially when they decide to get around to rounding up the fags for indefinite detention. But few will scream about it, so long as they leave the Jews alone. Everyone knows, it's only fascism if they attack the Jews.
I don't want to travel to the states, and I'm a citizen. A gay citizen. I'm even troubled that I have to visit the embassy soon to renew my passport, having been away for nearly 10 years. This shit is scary, simple as that. Especially scary since it just continues, in spite of the supposed advantage of a Democratic majority in Congress.
posted by Goofyy at 11:17 PM on July 29, 2007
My god, this is complete alarmist horse shit, pure and simple. When was the last time any of you were asked your religious or sexual preferences when you checked into a hotel or flight?
This bullshit is to the left what "the terrists are gonna git ya" is to the right. Come on people, unclench for a moment and think about it. No one has any private info on you. Even if they did, what agency has the manpower to screen out "undesirables" in the first place. Also, if they are already failing to screen out massive numbers of criminals, smugglers and even an occasional TB carrier, what makes you think that suddenly the black helicopters are going to decend on one lone queer atheist vegetarian in seat 24C on the flight from Prague?
posted by Pollomacho at 5:47 AM on July 30, 2007
This bullshit is to the left what "the terrists are gonna git ya" is to the right. Come on people, unclench for a moment and think about it. No one has any private info on you. Even if they did, what agency has the manpower to screen out "undesirables" in the first place. Also, if they are already failing to screen out massive numbers of criminals, smugglers and even an occasional TB carrier, what makes you think that suddenly the black helicopters are going to decend on one lone queer atheist vegetarian in seat 24C on the flight from Prague?
posted by Pollomacho at 5:47 AM on July 30, 2007
My god, this is complete alarmist horse shit, pure and simple. When was the last time any of you were asked your religious or sexual preferences when you checked into a hotel or flight?
Except that now for all European travelers those questions will be mandatory.
Airlines and hotels know more than you'd think, and note down more than you'd think. Especially for those of us who are gay and have ever used a sponsor airline for an event or conference, etc. (Something us gays do, since we're loyal and reward those who support us)
All of this stuff is going into US databases, which already have all our internet and other data. It's not alarmist at all, given our history. (Also, don't forget that people who had signed even one protest petition or attended one meeting during the depression in the 30s were in trouble for it 20 years later during McCarthy)
posted by amberglow at 7:48 AM on July 30, 2007
Except that now for all European travelers those questions will be mandatory.
Airlines and hotels know more than you'd think, and note down more than you'd think. Especially for those of us who are gay and have ever used a sponsor airline for an event or conference, etc. (Something us gays do, since we're loyal and reward those who support us)
All of this stuff is going into US databases, which already have all our internet and other data. It's not alarmist at all, given our history. (Also, don't forget that people who had signed even one protest petition or attended one meeting during the depression in the 30s were in trouble for it 20 years later during McCarthy)
posted by amberglow at 7:48 AM on July 30, 2007
And i'll just add the simple and non-alarmist fact that any 2 men or 2 women booking a room with one king-sized bed is in a hotel's worldwide database--for hotels it's about ensuring that customer preferences get noted and catered to (good marketing)--for the government, it most certainly wouldn't be.
posted by amberglow at 7:52 AM on July 30, 2007
posted by amberglow at 7:52 AM on July 30, 2007
Except that now for all European travelers those questions will be mandatory.
Um, are you reading the same articles? There is nothing in this agreement or anything in any of the links that states that these questions will become mandatory.
From the Washington Post article:
Under the agreement, airlines flying from Europe to the United States are required to provide data related to these matters to U.S. authorities if it exists in their reservation systems.
If, if it exists in their systems. Also:
Airlines do not usually gather such data, but officials say it could wind up in passenger files as a result of requests for special services such as wheelchairs, or through routine questioning by airline personnel and travel agents about contacts, lodging, next of kin and traveling companions.
So yeah, you ask for the halal meal, they might ask as a routine if you are muslim. You ask to be able to sit next to another guy, they might ask if you are traveling together. You want a special wheelchair boarding, they might ask if you have a health issue. The info that is gathered in those transactions will now be available to the DHS. Oh my god, the thought police are reading my mind!!! Double plus un-good!! Cliched outrage statement, Godwin Godwin!!!
posted by Pollomacho at 8:03 AM on July 30, 2007
Um, are you reading the same articles? There is nothing in this agreement or anything in any of the links that states that these questions will become mandatory.
From the Washington Post article:
Under the agreement, airlines flying from Europe to the United States are required to provide data related to these matters to U.S. authorities if it exists in their reservation systems.
If, if it exists in their systems. Also:
Airlines do not usually gather such data, but officials say it could wind up in passenger files as a result of requests for special services such as wheelchairs, or through routine questioning by airline personnel and travel agents about contacts, lodging, next of kin and traveling companions.
So yeah, you ask for the halal meal, they might ask as a routine if you are muslim. You ask to be able to sit next to another guy, they might ask if you are traveling together. You want a special wheelchair boarding, they might ask if you have a health issue. The info that is gathered in those transactions will now be available to the DHS. Oh my god, the thought police are reading my mind!!! Double plus un-good!! Cliched outrage statement, Godwin Godwin!!!
posted by Pollomacho at 8:03 AM on July 30, 2007
I have a list of the names of DHS employees that have left leaning tendencies. Yes folks, you heard me right, lefties; filthy, Democrat Party voting, pinko, abortionist Liberals, working right in the very departments tasked with protecting the Homeland! Some of the people are homosexuals and muslims, there are even a some homosexual muslims! Many of the names on the list are members of a labor union! Many have participated in organized rallies against the war on terrorism, promoting women's rights and environmental hippyism. Most of them voted for socialists like Nader, Gore and Kerry.
The name of this list: the employee directory.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:16 AM on July 30, 2007
The name of this list: the employee directory.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:16 AM on July 30, 2007
I have a list of the names of DHS employees that have left leaning tendencies. Yes folks, you heard me right, lefties; filthy, Democrat Party voting, pinko, abortionist Liberals, working right in the very departments tasked with protecting the Homeland!
"Karen Stevens, Tovah Calderon and Teresa Kwong had a lot in common. They had good performance ratings as career lawyers in the Justice Department's civil rights division. And they were minority women transferred out of their jobs two years ago -- over the objections of their immediate supervisors -- by Bradley Schlozman, then the acting assistant attorney general for civil rights.posted by ericb at 8:23 AM on July 30, 2007
Schlozman ordered supervisors to tell the women that they had performance problems or that the office was overstaffed. But one lawyer, Conor Dugan, told colleagues that the recent Bush appointee had confided that his real motive was to 'make room for some good Americans' in that high-impact office, according to four lawyers who said they heard the account from Dugan.
In another politically tinged conversation recounted by former colleagues, Schlozman asked a supervisor if a career lawyer who had voted for Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a onetime political rival of President Bush, could still be trusted.
...Schlozman's efforts to hire political conservatives for career jobs throughout the division are now being examined as part of a wide-ranging investigation of the Bush administration's alleged politicization of the Justice Department."*
Ah yes, those in the Senior Executive Level, the political apointees of the civil service, yes they are Bushies, however they would have quite a bit of trouble getting any work done if they fired the 99% of civil service workers who are in the GS pay scale and are almost exclusively Liberals. Remember that the number one employer in DC is the Federal government and the last time a Republican got more than 10% of the vote in this town was 1988 (Bush Sr. got 14%, Nixon in '72 was the only time a Republican broke 20% in DC voting history).
posted by Pollomacho at 11:15 AM on July 30, 2007
posted by Pollomacho at 11:15 AM on July 30, 2007
Pollo-- also in that same article: ... Airlines do not usually gather such data, but officials say it could wind up in passenger files as a result of requests for special services such as wheelchairs, or through routine questioning by airline personnel and travel agents about contacts, lodging, next of kin and traveling companions. Even a request for a king-size bed at a hotel could be noted in the database. ...
posted by amberglow at 2:52 PM on July 30, 2007
posted by amberglow at 2:52 PM on July 30, 2007
The question is whether more questions will become routine, and whether European and Intl Airlines will willingly hand this over---even the stuff that's from linked and affiliated places and resources, like credit card cos and hotel chains and rental car places.
posted by amberglow at 2:53 PM on July 30, 2007
posted by amberglow at 2:53 PM on July 30, 2007
Airline databases don't exist in a vacuum, and they're connected to many other sources of info.
posted by amberglow at 2:54 PM on July 30, 2007
posted by amberglow at 2:54 PM on July 30, 2007
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I'm not sure VARCHAR(50) is going to suffice, but OK.
posted by nervousfritz at 9:48 AM on July 28, 2007 [4 favorites]