You Ain't Seen Nathan Yet

November 28, 2007 2:25 PM

Rudy Giuliani is no saint. It's no secret that his marital infidelity and his subsequent divorce were two factors in the scuttling of his 2000 Senate bid, but the image of strength he tries so hard to project has (for the most part) allowed people to overlook his moderate stances on social issues. However, as with his good friend Bernard Kerik, his real problem might not be his infidelity as much as the abuse of public funds that accompanied it.
posted by Bromius (65 comments total)

Rudy Giuliani is no saint...but he is the man you should vote for in the next election, because Hilary is a reptilian kitten eater. (that's how an 'XXXX is no saint' sentence should finish).
posted by KokuRyu at 2:31 PM on November 28, 2007

Where does she get reptilian kittens? They sound tasty.
posted by never used baby shoes at 2:34 PM on November 28, 2007

So at what point does Giuliani counter with a "free blowjobs" remark.
posted by phaedon at 2:37 PM on November 28, 2007

A 5th grader could run an effective campaign against this guy. Honestly.

I can't for the life of me understand what all the Conservatives are thinking this cycle. The only explanation is that they are desperately searching for some type of flotation device and will latch on to whatever they can get.
posted by Cycloptichorn at 2:39 PM on November 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

I have a premonition about this FPP...
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 2:41 PM on November 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'd prefer a reptillian kitten eater to the current bunch.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:42 PM on November 28, 2007

When the city's fiscal monitor asked for an explanation, Giuliani's aides refused, citing "security," said Jeff Simmons, a spokesman for the city comptroller.

Giuliani was "post 9-11" before 9-11.
posted by drezdn at 2:43 PM on November 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Cycloptichorn: The only explanation is that they are desperately searching for some type of flotation device and will latch on to whatever they can get.

The same thing could be said of the liberals. And the Socialists. And the Expressionists. And the Flotation Device Fetishists.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 2:44 PM on November 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Giuliani: Worse Than Bush
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:49 PM on November 28, 2007

I wish Rick Lazio would take over his campaign.
posted by yeti at 2:58 PM on November 28, 2007

More screaming out of the room stuff: After 911 Rudy "my best friend is a criminal with ties to the mob called Bernard Kerik" Guiliani went off like a tin pot dictator and suggested that he be made king of NYC and go into a third term as Mayor like some GOP version of Hugo Chavez.
posted by Skygazer at 2:59 PM on November 28, 2007 [3 favorites]

No, he is a saint: 9/11.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:00 PM on November 28, 2007

Slack-a-gogo:


The same thing could be said of the liberals. And the Socialists. And the Expressionists. And the Flotation Device Fetishists.

Wrong, very wrong. the liberals will be happy with any of the big three on their side getting the nod, in terms of ideology; Hillary (derided for years as a 'ultra-liberal socialist by the Right wing) is their worst-case scenario.

The money game; it also doesn't lie. Republicans haven't been this far behind in modern history.
posted by Cycloptichorn at 3:00 PM on November 28, 2007

Believe me, I would chose about five of the Democrats running before I'd vote for Hillary, but I think Rudy is the only GOP candidate she can actually beat. So, go Rudy, I guess.

God, that's depressing.
posted by psmealey at 3:01 PM on November 28, 2007

C'mon, who among us has not used public funds to fund visits to a mistress in the Hamptons?
posted by brain_drain at 3:01 PM on November 28, 2007 [3 favorites]

Found a reptilian guinea pig eater. Did they ever eat kittens? They must have.
posted by chinese_fashion at 3:02 PM on November 28, 2007

So it's looking like either G or Romney on the one hand and probably HRC on the other, unless somebody has an unexpected meltdown in the primaries? ('Tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd...)

Well, stranger things have happened. I had a hard time believing that Bill "interminable keynote address" Clinton beat a Medal-of-Honor-winning US Navy SEAL in, IIRC, the 1992 New Hampshire primary, but that's why we do these stupid beauty contests. What a way to go about hiring-and-firing decisions.
posted by pax digita at 3:05 PM on November 28, 2007

I wish Rick Lazio would take over his campaign.

ha ha ha ha ha .... Rick Lazio .... whatever happened to that sad bastard .... heh .... poor guy

I actually could have felt sorry for Lazio, but I didn't. Not even for one, single, solitary, joyful minute.
posted by R. Mutt at 3:05 PM on November 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Regardless of the details of Mr Giuliani's life, I think we can all agree that reptilian kittens are tasty.
posted by LoopyG at 3:05 PM on November 28, 2007

The various GOP campaigns are the funniest things on TV.
posted by GavinR at 3:07 PM on November 28, 2007

They best way to get under Rudy's skin is to bring up the idea of ferrets as pets. He loves the subject!
posted by R. Mutt at 3:10 PM on November 28, 2007

Giuliani allegedly used public funds to pay for trips to the Hamptons to visit Judith Nathan? This is a surprise?

As for Mr. Lazio, he now works as an executive VP for JPMorgan Chase, so while he may well be a bastard, he's probably not a sad bastard (remuneration-wise, that is).
posted by blucevalo at 3:11 PM on November 28, 2007

pax digita writes "So it's looking like either G or Romney on the one hand and probably HRC on the other, unless somebody has an unexpected meltdown in the primaries? "

No. The Republican candidate is going to be Huckabee. Mark my words.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:13 PM on November 28, 2007

It would be so much easier if Rudy Giuliani changed his name to Rudy 9-11.
posted by MegoSteve at 3:15 PM on November 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

Fox News will be interesting to watch over the next day or so. Remember, Fox is not only biased toward Republicans, they're biased toward Giuliani specifically, for a variety of reasons.
posted by empath at 3:19 PM on November 28, 2007

His bigger sin is the comb over.
posted by 45moore45 at 3:19 PM on November 28, 2007

mr_roboto, if you're right and you're ever in town, drinks are on me. Like I said, since Bob Kerrey losing to Bill Clinton, or even the Tom Eagleton thing before that...funny things (that's "hmpf" funny, not necessarily "ha-ha" funny) can happen during primaries.
posted by pax digita at 3:19 PM on November 28, 2007

Plus he talks with a lisp like Sylvester Cat.
posted by Skygazer at 3:22 PM on November 28, 2007

Giuliani is educated blimpless stupid. Vote Ron Paul to restore simultaneous four-sided harmony to America.
posted by Krrrlson at 3:34 PM on November 28, 2007 [4 favorites]

Does anybody else here peform the mental check called "Would I really want to hear this person's name, see his/her face, hear his/her voice for the next four years?" For me, Huckabee passes the test OK, but G rubs me the wrong way -- must be one of those Southerner things; he sounds like a smart-a$$ uppity Yankee.
posted by pax digita at 3:35 PM on November 28, 2007

Fucking crook.
posted by Divine_Wino at 3:36 PM on November 28, 2007

Why can't we just elect Obama?
posted by jeffburdges at 3:39 PM on November 28, 2007

Shhh!! Rudy's illegal activities and total nut-ball-ness shouldn't be brought to light until AFTER he wins the primary. And then it will be far too late. *evil laughter*
posted by chowflap at 3:41 PM on November 28, 2007

jeffburdges,

Mostly b/c too many of us spend our time writing about politics instead of, say, actually working to get specific politicians elected.
posted by Cycloptichorn at 3:42 PM on November 28, 2007

Hillary will never be president. Neither will Giuliani.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 3:43 PM on November 28, 2007

Believe me, I would chose about five of the Democrats running before I'd vote for Hillary, but I think Rudy is the only GOP candidate she can actually beat. So, go Rudy, I guess.

I'd prefer the republicans nominate someone who isn't a bloodthirsty maniac, just to be on the safe side. I'd vote for Ron Paul over Hillary. Sure, the economy would tank, but with all the legal drugs who cares?

Anyway, Obama, Hillary and Edwards would whipe the floor with any of the republicans, it's just a fact. Unless something drastic happens, 2008 will be another 2006 but with the presidency in the balance as well. The republicans have fucked themselves.

I can't see Guiliani getting elected, given his penchant for chewing out citizens. Check out this video of hem chewing out some bus drivers

Medal-of-Honor-winning US Navy SEAL in, IIRC, the 1992 New Hampshire primary, but that's why we do these stupid beauty contests.

You mean Bob "Involved in Viet-nam massacre" Kerrey? Blah.

Does anybody else here peform the mental check called "Would I really want to hear this person's name, see his/her face, hear his/her voice for the next four years?" For me, Huckabee passes the test OK, but G rubs me the wrong way -- must be one of those Southerner things; he sounds like a smart-a$$ uppity Yankee.

That's really an awful way to pick. Everyone said John Kerry was annoying too, and that they wanted to 'have a beer' with Bush. And look what it got us.
posted by delmoi at 3:57 PM on November 28, 2007

"Believe me, I would chose about five of the Democrats running before I'd vote for Hillary, but I think Rudy is the only GOP candidate she can actually beat. So, go Rudy, I guess."

So, you'd take Hitler over Stalin? Congratulations!
posted by Sukiari at 3:58 PM on November 28, 2007

Wait... wait... Hillary drives a Sportska?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:59 PM on November 28, 2007

I also hate it when people say they'd vote for this person or that person because they "feel" they'd be more electable. Everyone said Kerry was electable in '04 and look what happened! It was a disaster.

I feel like I'm watching the same thing over again with Hillary. Everyone wants to vote for her because she's "electable" even though they don't really like her. WTF?!
posted by delmoi at 4:03 PM on November 28, 2007

Just heard that NPR that Bush is cutting a 12.5 per cent cost of living premium paid to federal civil servants living in America's most expensive cities because the $12 billion it costs "interferes with the war on terror".

OMG every single line item is being judged on whether it could be spent in Iraq, or as likely, impact traditional GOP strongholds, of which NY and San Francisco clearly are not.

Civil servants who can't afford to live in NYC agree: thank God W was prez on 9/11. Go Rudy go!
posted by crowman at 4:09 PM on November 28, 2007

er, just heard on NPR that
posted by crowman at 4:11 PM on November 28, 2007

Wow, Bush just fucked my family over directly, since my dad is retired and my mom is a federal employee in DC paying the mortgage by herself.
posted by empath at 4:14 PM on November 28, 2007

Democrats and lefties by and large keep finding petty things to cite when badmouthing Rudy! Sure, he had girlfriend on the side and used public money for his entertainment and was dumb enough to have city warning system in Twin Towers against advice after it had previously been attacked and he is surly and is given to fits and anger--but only city slickers in New York care about such minor things. As for the rest of this nation: Rudy is the Nation's Mayor!
posted by Postroad at 4:15 PM on November 28, 2007

Just heard that NPR that Bush is cutting a 12.5 per cent cost of living premium paid to federal civil servants living in America's most expensive cities because the $12 billion it costs "interferes with the war on terror".

By that logic, Bush's phase-out of the estate tax is sure to produce a mushroom cloud on U.S. soil.
posted by brain_drain at 4:28 PM on November 28, 2007

Yea, the nation gets the crossdressing mayor it deserves!
posted by R. Mutt at 4:30 PM on November 28, 2007

Is Giuliani still making a big secret out of how he met Nathan? I'm looking forward to that being the big mystery of the general election.
posted by gsteff at 4:35 PM on November 28, 2007

Rudy Giuliani is no saint.

Congatulations on your firm grasp of the obvious.
posted by jonmc at 4:41 PM on November 28, 2007

Giuliani, running for President of 911, is the current pick of the litter among a rogues gallery of awful Republicans and the two front-runners on the Dem side are the ones most likely to loose in the general election. What a farce.
posted by Huplescat at 5:05 PM on November 28, 2007

lose
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 5:33 PM on November 28, 2007

"The best laid plans of mice and men and Rudy Giuliani, the small man who wanted nothing but time. Rudy Giuliani, now just a part of a smashed landscape, just a piece of the rubble, just a fragment of what man has deeded to himself. Mr. Rudy Giuliani in the Twilight Zone."
posted by SPrintF at 5:44 PM on November 28, 2007 [4 favorites]

*marks mr roboto’s words*
Yeah. Looks like he’s being groomed fr’it.

“Fucking crook.”
Yeah, but 9/11.

“Why can't we just elect Obama?”
9/11

“Hillary will never be president. Neither will Giuliani.”
It’s my carefully considered opinion that 9/11.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:25 PM on November 28, 2007

At this evening's CNN debate -- "Rudy On The Spot: Anderson Cooper Asks 'Did You Bill Tax Payers For Your Hamptons Romps? [note: video of the exchange is at this link].'"

“Rudy Giuliani dismissed a report Wednesday that he expensed the cost of his security detail to obscure city offices for trips to a Long Island resort as the then-mayor began an extramarital affair with current wife Judith Nathan.

‘First of all, it's not true,’ he said during a GOP debate hours after the story broke. ‘I had 24-hour security for the eight years that I was mayor. They followed me everyplace I went. It was because there were, you know, threats, threats that I don't generally talk about. Some have become public recently; most of them haven't.

‘And they took care of me, and they put in their records, and they handled them in the way they handled them,’ Giuliani said. ‘I had nothing to do with the handling of their records, and they were handled, as far as I know, perfectly appropriately.’

He didn't, however, offer an explanation for why the tens of thousands of dollars in costs, which aides say were routine expenses for protection for the mayor, were billed to city offices like the Office for People With Disabilities.

Tony Carbonetti, Giuliani's mayoral chief of staff and his top campaign political adviser, said he's asked Joe Lhota, a former city budget director, ex-deputy mayor and a Giuliani campaign adviser, to explain how such accounting practices could have occurred and why security expenses were not billed to the police department.

‘These were all legitimate expenses incurred in protecting the mayor, and his police detail covered him wherever he went, 24/7,’ Carbonetti said in an interview before the debate. ‘You just do what you do, and the police go with you. That's just a fact of life when you're the mayor of New York.’

Later, an aide said that for accounting purposes, the expenses appear to have been temporarily allocated to city offices and paid for out of the mayor's budget but that the police department ultimately picked up the tab and reimbursed the mayor's office at the end of each year.

Giuliani's affair with Nathan, while he was married to second wife Donna Hanover, has become common knowledge.

But the suggestion, true or not, that he was hiding expenses for liaisons with Nathan in little-known city accounts, could open him up to criticism, remind voters of his three marriages and infidelity and tarnish his good-guy image from the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The report surfaced just five weeks before voting begins, and a couple hours before the GOP candidates shared a debate stage.

None of Giuliani's rivals raised the issue. Debate moderator, CNN's Anderson Cooper, asked Giuliani about it briefly.

The online publication, The Politico, obtained documents under New York's Freedom of Information Law that it says shows the expenses incurred while Giuliani visited the Hamptons had nothing to with the functions of little-known city offices that were responsible for regulating loft apartments, helping the disabled and providing lawyers for indigent defendants.

Weeks after Giuliani left office, The Politico reported, the city comptroller criticized the practice of transferring the travel expenses of Giuliani's security detail to the accounts of obscure offices. In a January 2002 letter to current Mayor Michael Bloomberg, City Comptroller William Thompson described $34,000 in mayoral expenses from fiscal year 2000, which covers parts of 1999 and 2000, to the Loft Board, as part of a preliminary investigation by auditors.

‘They were unable to verify that these expenses were for legitimate or necessary purposes,’ Thompson wrote in the letter that The Politico obtained. He said the mayor's office refused to explain the accounting to city auditors, citing only ‘security.’

The Politico said American Express bills and travel documents it obtained detail hotel, gas and other travel expenses for Giuliani's New York Police Department security detail during 11 trips over three summers of visits to Southampton, the Long Island town where Nathan had a condominium.”^*

posted by ericb at 7:56 PM on November 28, 2007

Kerik got indicted on the 9th, and I'm waiting to see if the prior relationship blows up in G's face this winter/spring. "Well, I knew him slightly, for a short while...." That sort of thing.
posted by pax digita at 7:57 PM on November 28, 2007

I've decided that anything sold as "America's ____" totally sucks. Mayors, trucks, beer, candy bars- you name it, if it belongs to AMERICA, it sucks.
posted by 235w103 at 8:53 PM on November 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Rudy's Ties to a Terror Sheikh: Giuliani's business contracts tie him to the man who let 9/11's mastermind escape the FBI
posted by homunculus at 12:02 AM on November 29, 2007

American cheese!

'nuf said?
posted by Goofyy at 6:03 AM on November 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

must be one of those Southerner things; he sounds like a smart-a$$ uppity Yankee.

And thanks to people sharing your criteria, we got an uppity Yankee who just happened to sound like a Southerner.
posted by JaredSeth at 10:26 AM on November 29, 2007

And thanks to people sharing your criteria

Don't assume you know all my criteria. I voted for that cretin neither time, I assure you.
posted by pax digita at 2:35 PM on November 29, 2007

Giuliani Made NYC Police Drive Around His Mistress

"Well before it was publicly known he was seeing her, then-married New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani provided a police driver and city car for his mistress Judith Nathan, former senior city officials tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.

She used the PD as her personal taxi service,' said one former city official who worked for Giuliani.

New York papers reported in 2000 that the city had provided a security detail for Nathan, who became Giuliani's third wife after his divorce from Donna Hanover, who also had her own police security detail at the same time."

posted by ericb at 3:05 PM on November 29, 2007

Former NYC Mayor Ed Koch: Giuliani Acted Improperly, Looks Like A Cover-Up

“‘There is something improper about charging costs to a department other than the NYPD,’ said Koch. ‘They are the ones who are supposed to pick him up no matter where he is whether or not it's in the city.’

Koch, who served as the mayor of New York City from 1978 to 1989, said that the episode gave off the appearance that Giuliani, who was at the time married to his second wife Donna Hanover, was trying to hide his affair. He also argued that providing Judith Nathan her own personal protection (when she was not a member of the first family) constituted an even more flagrant misuse of taxpayer money.

‘I found it strange that his lady friend was given protection,’ said the long-time New York politico. ‘That was bizarre. She's not the city's responsibility. Rudy is the city's responsibility. Your wife and his children get protection, and that's understood. But certainly not your lady friend.’”

Come on, Ed. You're being polite. She wasn't his "lady friend." She was his "mistress." His adulterous, "out-of-wedlock" lover!

What do you think about that you right-wing, conservative, "holier-than-thou," "Thou shalt not commit adultery," Red Staters?
posted by ericb at 3:13 PM on November 29, 2007

NYC Comptroller On Giuliani Money Controversy: "If Anyone Hoped That No One Would Notice, They Were Being Foolish"
posted by ericb at 5:04 PM on November 29, 2007

Katie Couric: But I am just curious, are you completely comfortable with the way it was handled and the way the billing was handled for example?

Rudy Giuliani: I was very comfortable with it and really upset that it was put out two hours before a debate with the suggestion that certain agencies were asked to bear the cost of my security. When you had a chance to look at it, it took about 3 to 4 hours to go through all of the records. The story turns out to be a totally false story. This practice was going on in my first term as mayor. It didn’t just happen in my second term as mayor. The police department paid for all of these expenses. But since the police department would sometimes be slow in payment. City Hall would pay it first, then the police department would reimburse every single penny of it. And now we’ve been able to confirm that...

Okay, can someone explain to me why the police department should be paying for security detail for an out-of-town tryst? Or why they should pay for an escort for his girlfriend? If this is his spin, it's pretty damning on its own.
posted by fungible at 7:10 PM on November 29, 2007

I hate to defend Giuliani, but this thing about billing through sundry agencies on a temporary basis is just book keeping. If it is true, as Hizzoner claims, that the funds were then reimbursed, reversing the entires to the sundry agencies, then no harm, no foul. Hizzoner even offers a plausible explanation.

Now, the part about providing protection and transport to his mistress, that's just plain theft, and should be prosecuted immediately. Yet, if it is true that Hizzoner was under realistic threat (he was a prosecutor, after all), then it could be argued that the police had a responsibility to protect anyone that could potentially be used as a target against him, which would include a mistress. I don't know a thing about his history as a prosecutor, but can easily conceive he could have some hard-core enemies as a result.

Personally, I'd prefer him to go down in shame. He is, at best, a phony. I seriously doubt that's the limit of his short comings. I have no motivation to dig for dirt on this guy, he's a non-issue for me, and I'd be happiest if he were to remain so! I don't want to wait until December, 2008, to learn of tons of filthy dirt on the guy--After he's s/elected, with huge questions about voting machines and nasty tricks pulled by partisan election supervisors.
posted by Goofyy at 5:35 AM on November 30, 2007

Huckabee Claimed Jesus ‘On The Cross’ Supported The Death Penalty
posted by homunculus at 9:48 PM on December 1, 2007

Rudy Giuliani Made Millions Lobbying For Data Mining Company
posted by homunculus at 12:54 PM on December 14, 2007