Flushing - home of mediocre baseball and Religious Freedom

December 27, 2007 7:11 PM

"“If any of these said persons come in love unto us, we cannot in conscience lay violent hands upon them, but give them free egress and regress unto our town. For we are bound by the law of God and man to do good unto all men and evil to no man.”

Today is the 350th anniversary of the Flushing Remonstrance - a precursor of the Constitution, and "an iconic record of early Dutch colonial government that proclaimed the necessity of religious freedom of conscience and toleration." As this NYT Op-Ed notes, this document originated (and is currently on display) in "the most diverse neighborhood in the most diverse borough in the most diverse city on the planet."
posted by ericbop (22 comments total)

If you've got a chronic digestive problem, every flush is a Remonstrance.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:18 PM on December 27, 2007

This is so cool! I'd never heard of this document. Thanks for this.
posted by dejah420 at 7:22 PM on December 27, 2007

I hadn't heard of the Flushing Remonstrance either. Very nice and informative FPP.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:36 PM on December 27, 2007

for if God justifye who can condemn and if God condemn there is none can justifye.

tell it.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:03 PM on December 27, 2007

Queens has never gotten it's due as the vibrant, weird, terrible and amazing place that it is. One of the birthplaces of American democracy (Oh how she has suffered) and the Ramones. Don't even get me started on the Corona Ice King or my lovely wife. Queens Stand UP!
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:07 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

I take exception to the "mediocre baseball" part but appreciate learning about the Remonstrance and second Divine_Wino's tribute to Queens.
posted by Rarebit Fiend at 8:15 PM on December 27, 2007

This past Sunday, CBS Sunday Morning had a segment on the Flushing Remonstrance: Drawing The Line Between Church And State.
posted by ericb at 8:29 PM on December 27, 2007

Yeah I just saw that little crack in the title, Los Mets have sustained my underdog loving heart for a good long time now and while championships are nice, I'll take a team that scraps and fails and shows willing over a bunch of entitled babies any day. So, for that only, as my friends in Queens say "The fuck you talkin' about, chief? You know where you are?" Still a nice post though.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:31 PM on December 27, 2007

Yes, I'm a Mets fan, too. Just taking out my continued frustration at The Collapse, and Minaya's failure to pull the trigger on any major improvements this off-season. If by some miracle they land Santana (or decide not to raise ticket prices a bajillion percent once they move into CitiField in '09), I'll change my tune.
posted by ericbop at 8:34 PM on December 27, 2007

Wow, the OP derailed his own post with just a title!

And all these years, I thought Flushing was nothing more than the end of the #7. Amazing. Kind of funny though, that name. "Vlissingen" sounds so much better, and is the original, Dutch spelling.
posted by Goofyy at 8:46 PM on December 27, 2007

Fair enough, Ericbop.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:59 PM on December 27, 2007

Those ices are quite good, Divine_Wino, but I still prefer Brooklyn. My baseball heart, however, has lived in The Bronx my whole life.
posted by cmgonzalez at 9:42 PM on December 27, 2007

"the most diverse neighborhood in the most diverse borough in the most diverse city on the planet."

The third point, yes. The second point, most definitely yes.

The first -- not so much. The most diverse neighborhood in Queens is actually Elmhurst.

I think the good professor got a little carried away with his rhetoric, there.

That said, great FPP! Thank you, ericbop.
posted by jason's_planet at 9:51 PM on December 27, 2007

“If any of these said persons come in love unto us, we cannot in conscience lay violent hands upon them, but give them free egress and regress unto our town. For we are bound by the law of God and man to do good unto all men and evil to no man.”

This is crazy talk. What next, questioning the divine right of kings?
posted by mullingitover at 1:11 AM on December 28, 2007

I fynde this post interesting
posted by blue_beetle at 1:11 AM on December 28, 2007

Yo, 718 inna HOUSE!!

That said, the "most diverse" neighborhood in Queens is a tough call. East Asian Flushing versus the South/Southeast Asian-Colombian stretch under the el (which bridges Elmhurst and Corona) versus the Slavic/Jewish/South Asian/Latino colonies in Rego Park versus the Irish/Latino/everything else in Sunnyside. Very tough call indeed.
posted by the sobsister at 6:34 AM on December 28, 2007

"the most diverse neighborhood in the most diverse borough in the most diverse city on the planet."

Wow, I know New Yorkers are full of themselves (particularly the NYT and of them the Op-Ed page and most particularly when the Op-Ed is from a Columbia Prof), but any Londoners want to chime in at this point? How about our folks from Istanbul? Geneva in the house? Miami want to speak up? No argument from San Francisco? Jerusalem want to phone it in? Port Moresby want to put Mr. Jackson in his place? Toronto? Amsterdam? LA? HK? Paris?

Is no one going to take these New Yorkers on this claim, I mean according to the UN Development Programme Human Development Report (from 2004, yeah, I know older version, but the topic was Cultural Liberty) they come in fifth in share of foreign born population after Miami, Toronto, LA, and Vancouver!
posted by Pollomacho at 7:32 AM on December 28, 2007

Pollomacho,
It is a widely held truism that Queens is the "most diverse place on the planet", I suspect that title would actually be held by a different city or area pretty much on a month to month basis if one was being strictly accurate. I agree that the Times is packed to the gunwales with smug "NYC is the best" bullshit, but not all New Yorkers are full of themselves, It's mostly the recent imports to the glittering homogenized heights of Manhattan that get a crisp new Yankees cap and a stank attitude.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:41 AM on December 28, 2007

It's no Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, but it'll do in a pinch.
posted by mds35 at 8:33 AM on December 28, 2007

Pollomacho, I think the diversity being cited by the NY folks isn't the same thing as foreign born population. NY is well known for ethnic enclaves that maintain a strong cultural identity amongst those born and raised on US soil. And just because a large percentage of LA's population is foriegn born doesn't mean that they are as diverse. A great portion of those foreign born residents are all from a single country, Mexico.

That said, I'm certainly not an expert and I'd be willing to bet that Vancouver and Toronto give NY a run for its money.

Also, very cool FPP about a subject I was unfamiliar with.
posted by afflatus at 4:37 PM on December 28, 2007

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Toronto was #1 in this category, followed by Vancouver, but I can't find the data now.

There is still the foreign-born thing, here, but yeah, that's not really the same thing. I wonder if there have been actual rankings released anywhere that just take into account ancestry (as vague as that is).
posted by blacklite at 5:49 PM on December 28, 2007

"Wow, I know New Yorkers are full of themselves (particularly the NYT and of them the Op-Ed page and most particularly when the Op-Ed is from a Columbia Prof), but any Londoners want to chime in at this point"

Yeah, as a Londoner who lived in New York for a while, I have to say that my personal opinion is that London kicks seven shades of shit out of New York when it comes to diversity.

I say "personal" however, because I think it really comes down to the whole semantics of the term "diversity."

Basically, in my personal experience, if diversity means various ethnic and racial groups existing and integrating without a fuss on a day-to-day basis then London is head and shoulders above anywhere else i've experienced (Walthamstow in East London has received a mention on here before, for example). Interestingly, pretty much all my New York buddies who've visited me over here since I moved back have ended up saying the same.

If diversity refers simply to the number of ethnic and racial groups that claim residence within a certain square mileage, then maybe New York pips it. Again, however, it's a claim that some dispute.

Whatever the truth of the matter, whenever this sweeping statement got touted in New York I tended to ignore it and move on - it's having that diversity that really matters, so the more big cities that have it, the better. If New York feels better having the bragging rights over London (and Toronto, which is another good candidate) then who cares.
posted by garius at 6:35 AM on December 29, 2007