Winter Soldier... A shape with lion body and the head of a man
March 18, 2008 6:14 PM Subscribe
"Not only are the misuse of rules of engagement in Iraq indicative of supreme strategic incompetence, they are also a moral disgrace." Former Marine Sergeant Jason Lemieux... three tours in Iraq from 2003 to 2006.
Also, this shit is fucked up. I was going to start quoting random shit from the transcripts, but really, it's all fucked up.
posted by chunking express at 7:47 PM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by chunking express at 7:47 PM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]
I went to a "Winter Soldier" event this evening sponsored by a few local peace groups.. There were a number of Iraq vets there speaking about their experiences...
What can YOU do??? My advice... just get one other person to listen to these accounts, just one.... and once they have, ask them to do the same...
posted by HuronBob at 7:57 PM on March 18, 2008
What can YOU do??? My advice... just get one other person to listen to these accounts, just one.... and once they have, ask them to do the same...
posted by HuronBob at 7:57 PM on March 18, 2008
Cue up the "well he's just a noncom, what does he know?" "Probaby ghost written by some commie from the NY Times" "'Lemieux' sounds frenchie, no wonder he hates America" piles of utter BS from Malkin and the rest of the wingnut bottom-feeders.
posted by jalexei at 8:00 PM on March 18, 2008
posted by jalexei at 8:00 PM on March 18, 2008
For what its worth, I posted this because its important and corporate media has ignored it. I had a helluva time getting it up and was unable to get the post I wanted. By the way I’m on ATT DSL.
posted by Huplescat at 8:12 PM on March 18, 2008
posted by Huplescat at 8:12 PM on March 18, 2008
Ah, fuck, what the fuck? There's so much fucked-up shit going on that I feel like everybody's outrage-meter has shutdown into denial -- or, at least, it feels like that in my case. This is one of those pieces of journalism that revives my emotion towards this war. Thanks, Huplescat.
posted by suedehead at 10:12 PM on March 18, 2008
posted by suedehead at 10:12 PM on March 18, 2008
Thanks for posting that - I've been avoiding looking for firsthand accounts of the Iraq war. Not sure why, maybe I just find it all too depressing. But those accounts are very compelling and if you have a spare 5 minutes or so well worth reading.
It's interesting how the vets so clearly draw the link between racism, dehumanisation and casual violence. And with the firepower at their disposal, there's no margin for error. Imagine firing grenades at an old lady!
posted by awfurby at 2:40 AM on March 19, 2008
It's interesting how the vets so clearly draw the link between racism, dehumanisation and casual violence. And with the firepower at their disposal, there's no margin for error. Imagine firing grenades at an old lady!
posted by awfurby at 2:40 AM on March 19, 2008
For what its worth, I posted this because its important and corporate media has ignored it.
Amazingly, I read about this last weekend in the Sunday Times magazine (UK).
One thing that stood out for me was how few winter warriors there are. Given the number of troops that have been to Iraq, particularly the number who went mostly by accident - national guard, rotc etc...I would have expected more dissent.
posted by srboisvert at 2:44 AM on March 19, 2008
Amazingly, I read about this last weekend in the Sunday Times magazine (UK).
One thing that stood out for me was how few winter warriors there are. Given the number of troops that have been to Iraq, particularly the number who went mostly by accident - national guard, rotc etc...I would have expected more dissent.
posted by srboisvert at 2:44 AM on March 19, 2008
"I would have expected more dissent."
I believe that a lot of the troops coming back from Iraq are unable or unwilling to talk about the experience there, for a variety of emotional, family, and career reasons...
posted by HuronBob at 4:17 AM on March 19, 2008
I believe that a lot of the troops coming back from Iraq are unable or unwilling to talk about the experience there, for a variety of emotional, family, and career reasons...
posted by HuronBob at 4:17 AM on March 19, 2008
Hellloooo. Earth to the 30% of Americans who still support Bush.
Hello
Hello
Anybody home???
.
posted by notreally at 8:09 AM on March 19, 2008
Hello
Hello
Anybody home???
.
posted by notreally at 8:09 AM on March 19, 2008
Earth to the 30% of Americans who still support Bush.
If anyone seriously thinks that 30% is going to listen, you're naive as heck.
On another forum I've watched one such Bush-supporter transform over the last five or six years from a smug, condescending jerk into a sullen, condescending jerk. Articles from biased sources that support the current Administration are "reliable." Articles from biased OR relatively unbiased sources that attack the current Administration are "suspect" and dismissed out of hand.
He's an ideologue, and I think that's what most of these other 30% are as well.
posted by illiad at 8:32 AM on March 19, 2008
If anyone seriously thinks that 30% is going to listen, you're naive as heck.
On another forum I've watched one such Bush-supporter transform over the last five or six years from a smug, condescending jerk into a sullen, condescending jerk. Articles from biased sources that support the current Administration are "reliable." Articles from biased OR relatively unbiased sources that attack the current Administration are "suspect" and dismissed out of hand.
He's an ideologue, and I think that's what most of these other 30% are as well.
posted by illiad at 8:32 AM on March 19, 2008
He's an ideologue, and I think that's what most of these other 30% are as well.
Actually, I think a lot of them are sociopaths or psychopaths....
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:16 AM on March 19, 2008
Actually, I think a lot of them are sociopaths or psychopaths....
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:16 AM on March 19, 2008
Also, this shit is fucked up. I was going to start quoting random shit from the transcripts, but really, it's all fucked up.
That's true, but still:
We get backup with Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles, and we go back into this nice little village, asking questions. And, you know, it’s a pretty good history in Iraq. You know, if you got beef with your neighbor back in Saddam’s day, you just say, “Hey, police, he said something bad about Saddam. Why don’t you go get him?” And they take him, and they torture him.
Well, now, here with the US, we’re asking, “Who are the troublemakers?,” and we hear from the people in the village that these people are troublemakers over here. So we go, and myself and another soldier steps off, and we toss the hut. Well, the only thing I find is a little .22 pistol, not AK-47s, not RPGs, not pictures of Saddam, not large caches of money. But we end up taking the two young men, regardless. And I looked at my sergeant, and I was like, “Sergeant, these aren’t the men that we’re looking for.” And he told me, “Don’t worry. I’m sure they would have done something anyways.”
And this mother, all the while, is crying in my face, trying to kiss my feet. And, you know, I can’t speak Arabic. I can speak human. She was saying, “Please, why are you taking my sons? They have done nothing wrong.” And that made me feel very powerless. You know, 82nd Airborne Division, Infantry, with Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles and armor and my M4—I was powerless. I was powerless to help her.
God dammit.
posted by Who_Am_I at 9:29 AM on March 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
That's true, but still:
We get backup with Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles, and we go back into this nice little village, asking questions. And, you know, it’s a pretty good history in Iraq. You know, if you got beef with your neighbor back in Saddam’s day, you just say, “Hey, police, he said something bad about Saddam. Why don’t you go get him?” And they take him, and they torture him.
Well, now, here with the US, we’re asking, “Who are the troublemakers?,” and we hear from the people in the village that these people are troublemakers over here. So we go, and myself and another soldier steps off, and we toss the hut. Well, the only thing I find is a little .22 pistol, not AK-47s, not RPGs, not pictures of Saddam, not large caches of money. But we end up taking the two young men, regardless. And I looked at my sergeant, and I was like, “Sergeant, these aren’t the men that we’re looking for.” And he told me, “Don’t worry. I’m sure they would have done something anyways.”
And this mother, all the while, is crying in my face, trying to kiss my feet. And, you know, I can’t speak Arabic. I can speak human. She was saying, “Please, why are you taking my sons? They have done nothing wrong.” And that made me feel very powerless. You know, 82nd Airborne Division, Infantry, with Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles and armor and my M4—I was powerless. I was powerless to help her.
God dammit.
posted by Who_Am_I at 9:29 AM on March 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Related post.
For what its worth, I posted this because its important and corporate media has ignored it.
It's pathetic how the mainstream media has completely avoided covering this. I expected some lip-service, but I've seen nothing. Democracy Now deserves a lot of credit for giving it so much coverage.
posted by homunculus at 12:13 PM on March 19, 2008
For what its worth, I posted this because its important and corporate media has ignored it.
It's pathetic how the mainstream media has completely avoided covering this. I expected some lip-service, but I've seen nothing. Democracy Now deserves a lot of credit for giving it so much coverage.
posted by homunculus at 12:13 PM on March 19, 2008
"Support the troops!"
"We are doing horrible things and accomplishing nothing, and my friends are dying for no reaason. Can we please come home now?"
"Hey, shut the fuck up, you lying piece of crap!"
They really ought to change the slogan to "Support the fascist military-industrial complex", because the right wing reaction to the Winter Soldiers proves conclusively that they could give a fuck less about the troops. They're tools to be used and disposed of.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:36 PM on March 19, 2008
"We are doing horrible things and accomplishing nothing, and my friends are dying for no reaason. Can we please come home now?"
"Hey, shut the fuck up, you lying piece of crap!"
They really ought to change the slogan to "Support the fascist military-industrial complex", because the right wing reaction to the Winter Soldiers proves conclusively that they could give a fuck less about the troops. They're tools to be used and disposed of.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:36 PM on March 19, 2008
Webb: McCain Refuses To Co-Sponsor GI Bill For Post-9/11 Veterans
posted by homunculus at 5:19 PM on March 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 5:19 PM on March 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
Congrats to the British Sunday Times printing something about this, but Winter Soldier was pretty avoided in most of the U.S. media. Two anecdotes, The New York Times ("paper of record"?!) had no coverage of it at all while sending multiple reporters and putting up a blog for the concurrent Austin SXSW music fest. Second, I went to Winter Soldier and while there was a lot of press (they ran out of press badges, but it was also a lot of foreign press) and it was broadcast live on freespeech and the internet (www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier), but when I went to get my ride down to D.C., we passed where Spitzer's sex worker was supposedly living in the city and there were tv trucks around the block. The corporate press in the U.S. chose to avoid this story.
posted by history is a weapon at 11:06 AM on March 28, 2008
posted by history is a weapon at 11:06 AM on March 28, 2008
PTSD, depression afflict 300,000 Iraq, Afghan war vets: study
posted by homunculus at 12:37 PM on April 17, 2008
posted by homunculus at 12:37 PM on April 17, 2008
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posted by chunking express at 7:40 PM on March 18, 2008