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April 9, 2008 9:57 PM Subscribe
Tilting at Windmills: The Outrageous Fortune of Terry Gilliam
As mentioned straightaway in the comments, one glaring omission in this article is Gilliam's conflagaration over writing credits for Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas.
As mentioned straightaway in the comments, one glaring omission in this article is Gilliam's conflagaration over writing credits for Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas.
I wondered what would happen with Parnassus, and it turns out they found a solution and resumed shooting in March (as mentioned in the linked article). Johnny Depp, Jude Law, and Colin Ferrell were cast as Ledger's character's alter egos in the mirror-world. All the out-of-mirror stuff was in the can by the time he passed, so it worked.
posted by carsonb at 10:25 PM on April 9, 2008
posted by carsonb at 10:25 PM on April 9, 2008
I love Terry Gilliam's work but Tideland was very bad and deserved to be buried. Not bad like an Edsel, bad like a BMW made out of plutonium.
posted by w0mbat at 10:38 PM on April 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by w0mbat at 10:38 PM on April 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
There's a Gilliam fanzine, where they describe an interesting movie titled The Defective Detective that Terry has been unable to get made (though it looks like problems getting backing more than anything else).
posted by eye of newt at 10:43 PM on April 9, 2008
posted by eye of newt at 10:43 PM on April 9, 2008
I love Terry Gilliam's work but Tideland was very bad
Them's fightin' words! Why didn't you like it?
posted by carsonb at 10:46 PM on April 9, 2008
Them's fightin' words! Why didn't you like it?
posted by carsonb at 10:46 PM on April 9, 2008
Metafilter: Not bad like an Edsel, bad like a BMW made out of plutonium.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:03 PM on April 9, 2008
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:03 PM on April 9, 2008
Found this little tidbit about The Adventures of Baron Munchausen interesting:
Also: the first choice for the King of the Moon was Marlon Brando? WTF? He should be thankful that didn't work out. I can't imagine anyone other than Robin Williams doing that.
posted by Potsy at 12:48 AM on April 10, 2008
Planned elaborate sets had to be pared down to embarrassing sparseness.Wow. Considering how lavish that film was in its finished form, I'd be curious to see what it would have looked like if everything went well.
Also: the first choice for the King of the Moon was Marlon Brando? WTF? He should be thankful that didn't work out. I can't imagine anyone other than Robin Williams doing that.
posted by Potsy at 12:48 AM on April 10, 2008
I love Terry Gilliam's work but Tideland was very bad and deserved to be buried.
I can't say I liked it, but I don't think it was bad. Interesting is probably the word I'd have to go with.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:00 AM on April 10, 2008
I can't say I liked it, but I don't think it was bad. Interesting is probably the word I'd have to go with.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:00 AM on April 10, 2008
Tideland fell into the category of "well-crafted and deeply unpleasant" for me. The "disclaimer" did nothing but harm the movie, though.
posted by Shepherd at 2:14 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by Shepherd at 2:14 AM on April 10, 2008
WRT the writing credits on Fear and Loathing, in Wayne Ewing's excellent documentary Breakfast With Hunter there is a scene wherein Alex Cox and Tod Davies pitch their version of the famous "we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . ." monologue. They wrote the scene as an animated interlude, with a literal, cartoon wave carrying Hunter from San Francisco to Vegas.
The documentary chronicles Hunter's reaction upon hearing this idea for the first time. At first, he's not sure he understood them properly. "You don't mean a literal wave, right?" When they say that yes, they do, Thompson's reaction is priceless. The slow burn that he's been working on during the pitch erupts into a full rage. He reaches for his pistol and suggests that they hit the fucking road with all possible haste, shouting after them something to the effect of "That was the greatest thing I ever wrote and you assholes want to turn it into a fucking cartoon?".
posted by Optamystic at 2:25 AM on April 10, 2008 [5 favorites]
The documentary chronicles Hunter's reaction upon hearing this idea for the first time. At first, he's not sure he understood them properly. "You don't mean a literal wave, right?" When they say that yes, they do, Thompson's reaction is priceless. The slow burn that he's been working on during the pitch erupts into a full rage. He reaches for his pistol and suggests that they hit the fucking road with all possible haste, shouting after them something to the effect of "That was the greatest thing I ever wrote and you assholes want to turn it into a fucking cartoon?".
posted by Optamystic at 2:25 AM on April 10, 2008 [5 favorites]
Jeez, almost couldn't remember the title of my favourite Gilliam film (or rather, the only Gilliam film I've seen besides FaLiLV), and mistakenly googled it for Seven Monkeys instead of 12. D' oh. (Se7en = Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman; 12 = Brad Pitt and Bruce Willis)
posted by hadjiboy at 2:29 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by hadjiboy at 2:29 AM on April 10, 2008
Interesting stuff. I've not seen Tideland, but curiosity may force me to seek it out.
posted by MrMustard at 2:54 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by MrMustard at 2:54 AM on April 10, 2008
I've always been a fan of Brazil for two reasons: It's a brilliant movie, and oddly enough it helped kicked off the beginning of the relationship that ended up in my going-on-20-year marriage.
The biggest problem with that movie is Gilliam's original ending didn't make a whole lot more sense than the studio's.
After watching Lost in La Mancha, it's clear to see that the behind the scenes drama Gilliam tends to create in his work is a big part of what drives his creativity. The tortured artiste thing is genuine.
posted by SteveInMaine at 3:46 AM on April 10, 2008
The biggest problem with that movie is Gilliam's original ending didn't make a whole lot more sense than the studio's.
After watching Lost in La Mancha, it's clear to see that the behind the scenes drama Gilliam tends to create in his work is a big part of what drives his creativity. The tortured artiste thing is genuine.
posted by SteveInMaine at 3:46 AM on April 10, 2008
"You don't mean a literal wave, right?"
I am very glad that the Good Doctor responded that way – of course, I can't imagine him responding any other way, being him. What a pile of shit that would have been.
posted by blacklite at 4:03 AM on April 10, 2008
I am very glad that the Good Doctor responded that way – of course, I can't imagine him responding any other way, being him. What a pile of shit that would have been.
posted by blacklite at 4:03 AM on April 10, 2008
Oh noes...link seems to be borked. Anybody got a mirror?
posted by sixswitch at 5:16 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by sixswitch at 5:16 AM on April 10, 2008
On preview: Or, I could use just a tiny bit of mental energy and go through the toplevel site...*slaps forehead*
If anyone else is having trouble: here.
posted by sixswitch at 5:17 AM on April 10, 2008
If anyone else is having trouble: here.
posted by sixswitch at 5:17 AM on April 10, 2008
I'd never seen that photo of Gilliam with the “STUDIO-LESS FILM MAKER - FAMILY TO SUPPORT - WILL DIRECT FOR FOOD” sign before. I love him as a film maker and any time I've seen him interviewed he seems so damn cool - just a mellow guy that wants to laugh, make movies, and have a good time.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 5:22 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 5:22 AM on April 10, 2008
"That was the greatest thing I ever wrote and you assholes want to turn it into a fucking cartoon?".
I think that sums up a great deal of Hollywood.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:33 AM on April 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
I think that sums up a great deal of Hollywood.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:33 AM on April 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
After watching Lost in La Mancha, it's clear to see that the behind the scenes drama Gilliam tends to create in his work is a big part of what drives his creativity. The tortured artiste thing is genuine.
I think he thrives on organised chaos and if he was more disciplined he might be more productive. But then they would not be Gillian films.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:38 AM on April 10, 2008
I think he thrives on organised chaos and if he was more disciplined he might be more productive. But then they would not be Gillian films.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:38 AM on April 10, 2008
Potsy, from what I understand, much of the film's elaborate sets did get made and used, but it was around the time that the moon scenes were to be shot that they realized that they were running low on funds. Instead of having a giant, lavish city, they pasted drawings of the proposed scenery on boards (I think that I picked this up from the audio commentary). Didn't turn out too bad, in my opinion. The moon should be kinda sparse.
posted by Tullius at 5:42 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by Tullius at 5:42 AM on April 10, 2008
I loved Brazil when it first came out, as a great yarn, with some neat concepts - in particular, deNiro as a "renegade" service tech battling the incompetents. (as a technician/programmer/troubleshooter, it's how i picture myself in my most cynical moments)
I watched it again around 2003, and this time it struck me how much of Brazil had come true: particularly the theme of "terrorism" as a perpetual undertone, and the vast government machinery that sprung up toperpetuate battle it. Nice riff on cosmetic medicine too.
posted by Artful Codger at 5:59 AM on April 10, 2008
I watched it again around 2003, and this time it struck me how much of Brazil had come true: particularly the theme of "terrorism" as a perpetual undertone, and the vast government machinery that sprung up to
posted by Artful Codger at 5:59 AM on April 10, 2008
Gilliam has always been ahead of his time for us Westerners, that's what frightens me about Tideland. I just watch Brazil again a couple of weeks ago and noticed this conversation that pretty much sums up the absolute futility of a "war on terror":
JILL: Don't you know the sort of thing that Information Retrieval does?
SAM:What do you mean? Would you rather have terrorists?
JILL: We've got both.
SAM: Things would be worse without Information Retrieval.
JILL:They couldn't be worse for the Buttles.
Sam is at a loss.
posted by any major dude at 6:08 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
JILL: Don't you know the sort of thing that Information Retrieval does?
SAM:What do you mean? Would you rather have terrorists?
JILL: We've got both.
SAM: Things would be worse without Information Retrieval.
JILL:They couldn't be worse for the Buttles.
Sam is at a loss.
posted by any major dude at 6:08 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Artful Codger, I was thinking the same thing, but then after reading Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein I know better. Terrorism and torture have been the Modus Operandi for the corporate controlled state since before WWII. The US, particularly under the Nixon regime, used terror and torture to stop countries from nationalizing industry like Uruguay, Chile, Argentina and surprise surprise - Brazil, which was a famous testing ground for extraordinary rendition. Makes me wonder if that was part of the inspiration behind the name. I know Gilliam said it came from the Disney song but maybe his knowledge of the state sponsored terrorism in Brazil clinched it for him.
posted by any major dude at 6:23 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by any major dude at 6:23 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Personally, I liked Tideland.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:29 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by shakespeherian at 6:29 AM on April 10, 2008
The biggest problem with that movie is Gilliam's original ending didn't make a whole lot more sense than the studio's.
What? Yes, it dives into surrealism, but at the end it totally made sense: That the only escape from the horrors of the state and the bureaucracy around us is in our dreams. At least it seemed pretty clear to me, and I was 16 at the time.
Yeah, Gilliam's made a few stinkers in his day, but his good ones are better, richer and more thoughtful than most directors can pull off in a whole career of films.
And ask anyone who's ever made a film, it's HARD. Years of your life, millions of dollars, dozens to hundreds of people, dedicated to pulling off one idea you had a long time ago... all so some 20 year old critic can spend five minutes calling it "tripe" in a Time Out blurb. Gilliam's career definitely ranks up there as a prime example.
posted by fungible at 7:01 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
What? Yes, it dives into surrealism, but at the end it totally made sense: That the only escape from the horrors of the state and the bureaucracy around us is in our dreams. At least it seemed pretty clear to me, and I was 16 at the time.
Yeah, Gilliam's made a few stinkers in his day, but his good ones are better, richer and more thoughtful than most directors can pull off in a whole career of films.
And ask anyone who's ever made a film, it's HARD. Years of your life, millions of dollars, dozens to hundreds of people, dedicated to pulling off one idea you had a long time ago... all so some 20 year old critic can spend five minutes calling it "tripe" in a Time Out blurb. Gilliam's career definitely ranks up there as a prime example.
posted by fungible at 7:01 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
I just hope that Gilliam doesn't end up weighing 400 pounds and spending his last days getting sloshed and making embarrassing commercials
posted by briank at 7:04 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by briank at 7:04 AM on April 10, 2008
I'm not sure in what world a BMW made out of plutonium is anything other than a good thing, but I'm glad I don't live there. Because it sounds like it doesn't have enough plutonium.
posted by Drastic at 7:04 AM on April 10, 2008
posted by Drastic at 7:04 AM on April 10, 2008
Another vote for Tideland. My wife and I both thought it captured the unromantic sensibility of old fairy tales, where really bad things happen and kids just have to deal. Also, like fairy tales, kids are not small adults, they are different beings altogether, with entirely different skills. Read unexpurgated Grimm Bros., then watch Tideland. Gilliam is one of the great ones.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 7:45 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 7:45 AM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
WRT Lost in La Mancha: I've always been a bit skeptical about its authenticity. Its theme is, in essence, Terry Gilliam = Don Quixote, and that's just a little too perfect. Add to that the fact that the filmmakers' next film was a mockumentary, and, well... yeah.
Besides, Gilliam already made a Don Quixote of sorts: The Fisher King.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2008
Besides, Gilliam already made a Don Quixote of sorts: The Fisher King.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2008
I hated Tideland. But I understand why a director, one like Gilliam, would want to make it. It's irresistibly fucked up — and that's creative candy. But not many people want to pay to see the finished product of depressing shit like that. And I'm one of them.
Otherwise Gilliam remains in my top four filmmakers of all time.
posted by tkchrist at 11:58 AM on April 10, 2008
Otherwise Gilliam remains in my top four filmmakers of all time.
posted by tkchrist at 11:58 AM on April 10, 2008
I have this dream where someday Gilliam directs a film version of The Master and Margarita.
posted by Afroblanco at 11:32 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by Afroblanco at 11:32 PM on April 10, 2008
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posted by shakespeherian at 10:14 PM on April 9, 2008 [2 favorites]