botox bad
April 15, 2008 5:31 PM Subscribe
And they say natural selection is dead.
posted by FissionChips at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by FissionChips at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oooohhhh, thanks! I had my home kit all ready and everything!
posted by P.o.B. at 5:42 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by P.o.B. at 5:42 PM on April 15, 2008
This is how the zombies start.
posted by Dizzy at 5:43 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Dizzy at 5:43 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
That was one of mom's earlier projects. Sorry.
I still love you, even if you're twitchy and/or paralyzed and/or really sweaty.
posted by Weighted Companion Cube at 5:46 PM on April 15, 2008
I still love you, even if you're twitchy and/or paralyzed and/or really sweaty.
posted by Weighted Companion Cube at 5:46 PM on April 15, 2008
Defamer provides photographic evidence that Botox is bad.
No proof on whether these particular brains were damaged before or after Botox.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:46 PM on April 15, 2008
No proof on whether these particular brains were damaged before or after Botox.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:46 PM on April 15, 2008
Studies show that injecting neurotoxins into your face is actually a bad idea.
Unless you want to leave a beautiful corpse.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:47 PM on April 15, 2008
Unless you want to leave a beautiful corpse.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:47 PM on April 15, 2008
Botox is people! PEOPLE!!
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 5:49 PM on April 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 5:49 PM on April 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
Studies also show that Multiple Stab Wounds May Be Harmful To Monkeys.
posted by Neiltupper at 5:53 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Neiltupper at 5:53 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ironically, none of the who received Botox injections looks surprised.
posted by Davenhill at 5:53 PM on April 15, 2008 [41 favorites]
posted by Davenhill at 5:53 PM on April 15, 2008 [41 favorites]
This is how the zombies start.
God, that was my first thought, too. Is it sad that my brain immediately jumps to either zombies or vikings? I feel so unoriginal
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 5:55 PM on April 15, 2008
God, that was my first thought, too. Is it sad that my brain immediately jumps to either zombies or vikings? I feel so unoriginal
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 5:55 PM on April 15, 2008
This is why we can't have nice lips.
posted by Doohickie at 6:12 PM on April 15, 2008 [11 favorites]
posted by Doohickie at 6:12 PM on April 15, 2008 [11 favorites]
Wow! Who would ever guess that injecting a deadly poison could possibly be bad!
posted by mike3k at 6:13 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by mike3k at 6:13 PM on April 15, 2008
Uh oh. Nicole Kidman is running scared today. Sure, she has the same expression as yesterday, but inside she's scared.
posted by miss lynnster at 6:15 PM on April 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by miss lynnster at 6:15 PM on April 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
Damn liberal media. I wish people would just stop with this nanny-state bullshit!
posted by OmieWise at 6:16 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by OmieWise at 6:16 PM on April 15, 2008
[snark]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:18 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:18 PM on April 15, 2008
I really really just had to favorite Doohickie's comment even though trout pout isn't botox. I mean, that was funny.
posted by miss lynnster at 6:20 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by miss lynnster at 6:20 PM on April 15, 2008
I'm so outraged I took a picture of my outrage. Be warned, in the picture I am seething with outrage.
posted by aerotive at 6:28 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by aerotive at 6:28 PM on April 15, 2008
this is my shocked face. no, really.
posted by the painkiller at 6:30 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by the painkiller at 6:30 PM on April 15, 2008
*frowns *
posted by loquacious at 6:33 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by loquacious at 6:33 PM on April 15, 2008
Injecting a toxin into your face? How stupid can you get? It's almost like these women think they live in a society where they will be judged on their resemblance to Natalie Portman or Paris Hilton rather than their intelligence and character.
posted by transona5 at 6:34 PM on April 15, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by transona5 at 6:34 PM on April 15, 2008 [7 favorites]
In all fairness, though, anyone who injects toxins into their face probably isn't all that in the intelligence department, either.
On the plus side, they're not injecting toxins into other peoples' faces, just their own, so I guess that does speak better of character. One out of three ain't bad.
posted by Drastic at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2008
On the plus side, they're not injecting toxins into other peoples' faces, just their own, so I guess that does speak better of character. One out of three ain't bad.
posted by Drastic at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2008
I really really just had to favorite Doohickie's comment even though trout pout isn't botox. I mean, that was funny.
It was, but I wish we could favorite names instead of comments because "Doohickie" slays me anew every time I see it.
*furrowing brow, Bert-like®*
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on April 15, 2008
It was, but I wish we could favorite names instead of comments because "Doohickie" slays me anew every time I see it.
*furrowing brow, Bert-like®*
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on April 15, 2008
: |
posted by lekvar at 6:52 PM on April 15, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by lekvar at 6:52 PM on April 15, 2008 [5 favorites]
Injecting a toxin into your face? How stupid can you get? It's almost like these women think they live in a society where they will be judged on their resemblance to Natalie Portman or Paris Hilton rather than their intelligence and character.
It's pretty damn popular with men too, to note. Not as much so as with women, in most places, but it'd be nice to try to even that comment out a little. As for the second part of your comment about how women are judged, I'm still trying to tell if there's sarcasm in there?
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 6:56 PM on April 15, 2008
It's pretty damn popular with men too, to note. Not as much so as with women, in most places, but it'd be nice to try to even that comment out a little. As for the second part of your comment about how women are judged, I'm still trying to tell if there's sarcasm in there?
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 6:56 PM on April 15, 2008
Fascinating: Botulinum toxin is a neurotoxin protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. It is one of the most poisonous naturally occurring substances in the world, and it is the most toxic protein.
More inside.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:59 PM on April 15, 2008
More inside.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:59 PM on April 15, 2008
In all fairness, though, anyone who injects toxins into their face probably isn't all that in the intelligence department, either.
And I guess anyone who injects a disease virus into someone is pretty stupid too, right? Because that sounds pretty bizarre. And yet...
Look, I'll come right out and say it. I've had Botox on a couple of occasions. For those of you who think it bizarre that someone would undergo painful procedures for beauty's sake, let me say this: it hurts less than plucking your eyebrows.
Patients have been assured for years that Botox is safe, and now THEY are the stupid ones because they believed the research? If it's proven that Botox is dangerous, then hell no, I won't be getting it again. But these new findings don't validate your prejudice against people who undergo cosmetic procedures.
posted by Evangeline at 7:01 PM on April 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
And I guess anyone who injects a disease virus into someone is pretty stupid too, right? Because that sounds pretty bizarre. And yet...
Look, I'll come right out and say it. I've had Botox on a couple of occasions. For those of you who think it bizarre that someone would undergo painful procedures for beauty's sake, let me say this: it hurts less than plucking your eyebrows.
Patients have been assured for years that Botox is safe, and now THEY are the stupid ones because they believed the research? If it's proven that Botox is dangerous, then hell no, I won't be getting it again. But these new findings don't validate your prejudice against people who undergo cosmetic procedures.
posted by Evangeline at 7:01 PM on April 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
And they say natural selection is dead.
First of all, who says that? Second of all, the people who get botox are ones who are mostly past the age when they could have children anyway, and even then, only a very, very small number of people are actually ending up harmed.
posted by delmoi at 7:02 PM on April 15, 2008
First of all, who says that? Second of all, the people who get botox are ones who are mostly past the age when they could have children anyway, and even then, only a very, very small number of people are actually ending up harmed.
posted by delmoi at 7:02 PM on April 15, 2008
Look, I'll come right out and say it. I've had Botox on a couple of occasions.(looks at Evangeline's profile picture)
posted by Evangeline at 9:01 PM on April 15 [+] [!]
uhhh... there's something we'd like to tell you...
posted by jtron at 7:13 PM on April 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
I'd just like to point out that botox has medical uses beyond the cosmetic. Treatment for cerebral palsy in children for example.
posted by arha at 7:16 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by arha at 7:16 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Look good, get stupider. It's a syringe full of the American Way.
posted by Malor at 7:16 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Malor at 7:16 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hey Evangeline, could you tell us how the Botox worked, how long it lasted, etc, etc? It's an interesting subject.
More questions, if you don't mind: What prompted your interest in it? Did you do a bunch of research about it or was it more a whim? Worried about side effects taking? Have any side effects? Would you do it again?
Not judging you, just curious.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:21 PM on April 15, 2008
More questions, if you don't mind: What prompted your interest in it? Did you do a bunch of research about it or was it more a whim? Worried about side effects taking? Have any side effects? Would you do it again?
Not judging you, just curious.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:21 PM on April 15, 2008
And I guess anyone who injects a disease virus into someone is pretty stupid too, right? Because that sounds pretty bizarre. And yet...
I agree that this is a pretty strong riposte, as I understand that the original intent of smallpox vaccination was to cause really neat-looking scars. As Jenner said to Phipps, "Kid, this is going to make your upper arm look totally badass. You get older and chicks will dig it." (Later, chicks totally dug it. Phipps got a lot of action. True historical fact, neglected in most textbooks.)
posted by Drastic at 7:29 PM on April 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
I agree that this is a pretty strong riposte, as I understand that the original intent of smallpox vaccination was to cause really neat-looking scars. As Jenner said to Phipps, "Kid, this is going to make your upper arm look totally badass. You get older and chicks will dig it." (Later, chicks totally dug it. Phipps got a lot of action. True historical fact, neglected in most textbooks.)
posted by Drastic at 7:29 PM on April 15, 2008 [4 favorites]
Patients have been assured for years that Botox is safe, and now THEY are the stupid ones because they believed the research?
A company in the United States tells you a known supertoxin is good for you and you just accept it at face value? I need to buy a few congressmen so I can get my ricin-based boob-enhancing cream on the market.
Yeah, "THEY are the stupid ones." I knew that as soon as I heard about Botox and crossed it with memories of my mother refusing dented cans at the supermarket.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:36 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
A company in the United States tells you a known supertoxin is good for you and you just accept it at face value? I need to buy a few congressmen so I can get my ricin-based boob-enhancing cream on the market.
Yeah, "THEY are the stupid ones." I knew that as soon as I heard about Botox and crossed it with memories of my mother refusing dented cans at the supermarket.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:36 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Look, I'll come right out and say it: I thought botox sounded stupid from the get go.
I see that there are more than just cosmetic uses for it, but the if the risk of not using it was potentially being less pretty, well um, *rim shot*.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 7:49 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
I see that there are more than just cosmetic uses for it, but the if the risk of not using it was potentially being less pretty, well um, *rim shot*.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 7:49 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
The thing about cosmetic surgery is that there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's a logical extension of hair dye and hair cuts and dressing nicely and whatnot.
As with most human endeavours, it's when it's taken to extremes that there is a problem.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:07 PM on April 15, 2008
As with most human endeavours, it's when it's taken to extremes that there is a problem.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:07 PM on April 15, 2008
More fear reporting.
Let's run the numbers: 1,437 adverse effects over 15 years, which works out to about 96 per annum. 28 deaths, or a little less than two per year. Obviously there will be quite a few more piled towards the recent years as the treatment becomes first approved for cosmetics in 2002, then more popular.
4.6 million Botox procedures in 2007; fewer than (not less than, do you hear me, jessamyn?) a million in 2000. Let's just skip estimating everything before 2000 as insignificant to be conservative and do a straight line between 2000 and 2007 - giving us 19.6 million injections. Take the pre-2000 period, and we round to 20 million injections.
So, about one in 13,917 injections gives you an "adverse reaction" (which can be anything from minor like headaches, neck pain, and trouble swallowing to fairly unpleasant, like drooling), and about one in 714,286 results in death, even if we don't consider the relative health of the recipient. Granted, this is (in most cases) a cosmetic procedure, and therefore hardly necessary, but most prescription drugs have a far higher rate of adverse reactions. The deaths I can't speak of, and I doubt we'd ever get any hard data short of raiding pharmacom information vaults, Mission Impossible style.
Just another slow news day, folks, lookin' for that next West Nile.
posted by adipocere at 8:09 PM on April 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
Let's run the numbers: 1,437 adverse effects over 15 years, which works out to about 96 per annum. 28 deaths, or a little less than two per year. Obviously there will be quite a few more piled towards the recent years as the treatment becomes first approved for cosmetics in 2002, then more popular.
4.6 million Botox procedures in 2007; fewer than (not less than, do you hear me, jessamyn?) a million in 2000. Let's just skip estimating everything before 2000 as insignificant to be conservative and do a straight line between 2000 and 2007 - giving us 19.6 million injections. Take the pre-2000 period, and we round to 20 million injections.
So, about one in 13,917 injections gives you an "adverse reaction" (which can be anything from minor like headaches, neck pain, and trouble swallowing to fairly unpleasant, like drooling), and about one in 714,286 results in death, even if we don't consider the relative health of the recipient. Granted, this is (in most cases) a cosmetic procedure, and therefore hardly necessary, but most prescription drugs have a far higher rate of adverse reactions. The deaths I can't speak of, and I doubt we'd ever get any hard data short of raiding pharmacom information vaults, Mission Impossible style.
Just another slow news day, folks, lookin' for that next West Nile.
posted by adipocere at 8:09 PM on April 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
A company in the United States tells you a known supertoxin is good for you and you just accept it at face value?
Super toxin?
Look, there are lots of things that are harmful in high doses, but harmless in low doses because they don't build up in the body. Your body actually needs arsenic for example.
This whole idea that science is just so obvious and anyone who trusts actual scientists is just an idiot is actually pretty stupid in and of itself.
And now we have one study that contradicts tons of older studies and suddenly, like, OMG PEOPLE SEE IT'S TOTALLY DANGEROUS!
It's a little ridiculous.
posted by delmoi at 8:16 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Super toxin?
Look, there are lots of things that are harmful in high doses, but harmless in low doses because they don't build up in the body. Your body actually needs arsenic for example.
This whole idea that science is just so obvious and anyone who trusts actual scientists is just an idiot is actually pretty stupid in and of itself.
And now we have one study that contradicts tons of older studies and suddenly, like, OMG PEOPLE SEE IT'S TOTALLY DANGEROUS!
It's a little ridiculous.
posted by delmoi at 8:16 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think calling the botox patients stupid is uncalled for. Patients should be able to reasonably rely on the research and this is pretty new information as far as I know. Certainly, taking a drug in the first couple of years after release carries some extra risk because now it is moving from hundreds or perhaps even thousands of trial patients into millions of patients and sometimes rare, but serious, side effects arise. I think people are reacting to the vanity of the people who take it, and I know it seems a bit crazy to take something so poisonous merely to look good, but then again lots of people did without incident. How many people here have taken street drugs made by god knows who etc. (did you see the recent story of the pot sold with lead in the bags which caused severe lead poisoning for some users) all for a buzz?
posted by caddis at 8:17 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by caddis at 8:17 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
lolbotox
posted by krinklyfig at 8:23 PM on April 15, 2008
posted by krinklyfig at 8:23 PM on April 15, 2008
caddis writes "I think people are reacting to the vanity of the people who take it, and I know it seems a bit crazy to take something so poisonous merely to look good, but then again lots of people did without incident."
Yeah, but sometimes there were other sorts of incidents.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:28 PM on April 15, 2008
Yeah, but sometimes there were other sorts of incidents.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:28 PM on April 15, 2008
This whole idea that science is just so obvious and anyone who trusts actual scientists is just an idiot is actually pretty stupid in and of itself.
It's also a nice result of the anti-intellectual, every-opinion-is-equal world. Vindicated hunches aren't all that better off than the non-vindicated kind.
However, for my money, Drastic has it dead on.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:56 PM on April 15, 2008
It's also a nice result of the anti-intellectual, every-opinion-is-equal world. Vindicated hunches aren't all that better off than the non-vindicated kind.
However, for my money, Drastic has it dead on.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:56 PM on April 15, 2008
Silicone breasts, collagen injections for those lovely bee-stung lips, botox, liposuction, calf-muscle implants (can't leave out the guys): c'mon, self-esteem and mate-attraction hardly make up for the self-indulgent nature of these (marginally) dangerous medical procedures.
Me: I could never afford one of these procedures. And I would feel stupid and selfish spending extra money on fighting off the cosmetic appearance of aging considering how many Third World children's lives I could save by spending a thousand bucks elsewhere. Sorry if I sound self-righteous, but, jeez, a little perspective couldn't hurt.
posted by kozad at 8:56 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Me: I could never afford one of these procedures. And I would feel stupid and selfish spending extra money on fighting off the cosmetic appearance of aging considering how many Third World children's lives I could save by spending a thousand bucks elsewhere. Sorry if I sound self-righteous, but, jeez, a little perspective couldn't hurt.
posted by kozad at 8:56 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Look, there are lots of things that are harmful in high doses, but harmless in low doses because they don't build up in the body. Your body actually needs arsenic for example.
You should find a new doctor if your current one looks at your blood results and says "You're not getting enough botulism." Because s/he's one visit away from asking if your diet is low in Vitamin Poo.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:12 PM on April 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
You should find a new doctor if your current one looks at your blood results and says "You're not getting enough botulism." Because s/he's one visit away from asking if your diet is low in Vitamin Poo.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:12 PM on April 15, 2008 [6 favorites]
I hate arguing for things I stand against on principle, but MC, if 3 doctors told me that, I'd trust them over my hunch. That's kinda what they're for.
But you know, they told me iron is good for me too, and that just takes me back to my little brother needing that tetanus shot when he stepped on that rusty nail! Yup. Them scientist-types sure can be loons. Maybe he should hang out with your ma over some canned soup. Undented, of course.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:33 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
But you know, they told me iron is good for me too, and that just takes me back to my little brother needing that tetanus shot when he stepped on that rusty nail! Yup. Them scientist-types sure can be loons. Maybe he should hang out with your ma over some canned soup. Undented, of course.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:33 PM on April 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
After seeing a short news item about two people paralyzed by botulism from some tainted carrot juice, I cannot imagine not being fearful of anything containing botulism. They were on ventilators for months, through a tracheotomy, and are having to relearn how to walk and move again. They used to be ballroom dancers, and one of them is still primarily in a wheel chair. Botulism isn't something that might just give you the runs or let you call in sick for a day; this is something that can utterly destroy your life, if not take it.
Having recently gone through surgery to save my life, I really can't imagine undergoing medical procedures just to look a little younger. But then, I don't live in LA.
posted by Hildegarde at 9:47 PM on April 15, 2008
Having recently gone through surgery to save my life, I really can't imagine undergoing medical procedures just to look a little younger. But then, I don't live in LA.
posted by Hildegarde at 9:47 PM on April 15, 2008
I think as someone pointed out above, botulinum is useful for treatment in cerebral palsy.
It's one thing to take a balanced approach to a dangerous natural substance and question whether real risks are warranted for a given use. It's another to take a superstitious approach based on any association you can make with something in your immediate experience.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:52 PM on April 15, 2008
It's one thing to take a balanced approach to a dangerous natural substance and question whether real risks are warranted for a given use. It's another to take a superstitious approach based on any association you can make with something in your immediate experience.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:52 PM on April 15, 2008
You should find a new doctor if your current one looks at your blood results and says "You're not getting enough botulism." Because s/he's one visit away from asking if your diet is low in Vitamin Poo.
I'm sure you'd say the same thing to a doctor who proscribed penicillin too, because hey, it comes from OMG A FUNGUS! and people can die horrible deaths from allergic reactions to it!
After seeing a short news item about two people paralyzed by botulism from some tainted carrot juice, I cannot imagine not being fearful of anything containing botulism. They were on ventilators for months, through a tracheotomy, and are having to relearn how to walk and move again. They used to be ballroom dancers, and one of them is still primarily in a wheel chair. Botulism isn't something that might just give you the runs or let you call in sick for a day; this is something that can utterly destroy your life, if not take it.
Yeah, well, people die from drinking too much water too. Look, a small amount of something is not the same thing as a large amount of something. Being afraid of small amounts of botox because of that story makes as much sense as being afraid to touch aluminum soda cans because you heard about someone who was crushed to death by an aluminum shipping container.
I mean, maybe you want to look down on people who you think are vain or whatever, but this OMG TOXICK! stuff just sounds scientifically illiterate.
posted by delmoi at 10:35 PM on April 15, 2008
I'm sure you'd say the same thing to a doctor who proscribed penicillin too, because hey, it comes from OMG A FUNGUS! and people can die horrible deaths from allergic reactions to it!
After seeing a short news item about two people paralyzed by botulism from some tainted carrot juice, I cannot imagine not being fearful of anything containing botulism. They were on ventilators for months, through a tracheotomy, and are having to relearn how to walk and move again. They used to be ballroom dancers, and one of them is still primarily in a wheel chair. Botulism isn't something that might just give you the runs or let you call in sick for a day; this is something that can utterly destroy your life, if not take it.
Yeah, well, people die from drinking too much water too. Look, a small amount of something is not the same thing as a large amount of something. Being afraid of small amounts of botox because of that story makes as much sense as being afraid to touch aluminum soda cans because you heard about someone who was crushed to death by an aluminum shipping container.
I mean, maybe you want to look down on people who you think are vain or whatever, but this OMG TOXICK! stuff just sounds scientifically illiterate.
posted by delmoi at 10:35 PM on April 15, 2008
For Mayor Curley: Vitamin Poo. Vitamin Poo.
posted by hattifattener at 11:08 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by hattifattener at 11:08 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
there's some serious stupid going on in this thread.
And I guess anyone who injects a disease virus into someone is pretty stupid too, right? Because that sounds pretty bizarre. And yet...
the virus is dead when it's injected to you. There's no danger. bad analogy
I'm sure you'd say the same thing to a doctor who proscribed penicillin too, because hey, it comes from OMG A FUNGUS!
a protein isolated from an organism does not have the same properties of the organism in the same way a steak won't charge a matador.
Let's run the numbers: 1,437 adverse effects over 15 years, which works out to about 96 per annum. 28 deaths, or a little less than two per year. Obviously there will be quite a few more piled towards the recent years as the treatment becomes first approved for cosmetics in 2002, then more popular.
4.6 million Botox procedures in 2007; fewer than (not less than, do you hear me, jessamyn?) a million in 2000. Let's just skip estimating everything before 2000 as insignificant to be conservative and do a straight line between 2000 and 2007 - giving us 19.6 million injections. Take the pre-2000 period, and we round to 20 million injections.
good points, but glosses over the whole nerve damage aspect. the damage is not going to simply be dead/not dead, it could also be causing slow nerve death.
Ironically, none of the who received Botox injections looks surprised.
you are my hero
anyways, to put the scientist hat on, those arguing that "it's only a small amount of something very toxic" are missing the point that it acts by directly attacking nerves in the face to paralyze them. That's why you lose wrinkles, because nerves are poisoned. It was assumed to be safe because there was no data that it would spread to other nerves. Now there's data that it might. Does enough travel through the nerve to cause damage? Is it making people who take it stupid? No idea, but it should give pause to those who think the procedure is harmless.
People who get plastic surgery aren't stupid but there are risks to be accepted with any elective procedure. People die getting boob jobs, face lifts and getting wrinkles removed. They also die jogging. My personal opinion is that people that get work done are insecure and should love themselves how they are. But then I jog.
posted by slapshot57 at 11:23 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
And I guess anyone who injects a disease virus into someone is pretty stupid too, right? Because that sounds pretty bizarre. And yet...
the virus is dead when it's injected to you. There's no danger. bad analogy
I'm sure you'd say the same thing to a doctor who proscribed penicillin too, because hey, it comes from OMG A FUNGUS!
a protein isolated from an organism does not have the same properties of the organism in the same way a steak won't charge a matador.
Let's run the numbers: 1,437 adverse effects over 15 years, which works out to about 96 per annum. 28 deaths, or a little less than two per year. Obviously there will be quite a few more piled towards the recent years as the treatment becomes first approved for cosmetics in 2002, then more popular.
4.6 million Botox procedures in 2007; fewer than (not less than, do you hear me, jessamyn?) a million in 2000. Let's just skip estimating everything before 2000 as insignificant to be conservative and do a straight line between 2000 and 2007 - giving us 19.6 million injections. Take the pre-2000 period, and we round to 20 million injections.
good points, but glosses over the whole nerve damage aspect. the damage is not going to simply be dead/not dead, it could also be causing slow nerve death.
Ironically, none of the who received Botox injections looks surprised.
you are my hero
anyways, to put the scientist hat on, those arguing that "it's only a small amount of something very toxic" are missing the point that it acts by directly attacking nerves in the face to paralyze them. That's why you lose wrinkles, because nerves are poisoned. It was assumed to be safe because there was no data that it would spread to other nerves. Now there's data that it might. Does enough travel through the nerve to cause damage? Is it making people who take it stupid? No idea, but it should give pause to those who think the procedure is harmless.
People who get plastic surgery aren't stupid but there are risks to be accepted with any elective procedure. People die getting boob jobs, face lifts and getting wrinkles removed. They also die jogging. My personal opinion is that people that get work done are insecure and should love themselves how they are. But then I jog.
posted by slapshot57 at 11:23 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
If they yank Botox off the market, I'm mostly fucked.
I have FMS/CFS (Fibromyalgia Syndrome / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). Along with the fatigue and pain, I have a variety of symptoms and co-diseases: insomnia, acid reflux, frequent headaches, short term memory loss, rashes... I won't bore you with a complete list, but I promise you it's a long one. I have found a treatment that seems to help a lot with the fatigue, pain, and memory loss; magnesium with malic acid. But I can't take it very often.
See, one of my most inexplicable and misery inducing symptoms / co-diseases is cervical dystonia, which means I have a muscles (or muscles) in my neck that will not, no matter what, relax. It remains contracted every minute of the day. The other muscles in the neck pull and tense in response to it and so the whole neck/head area stays locked up like a tetanus infected speed freak. This leads to headaches and involuntary movements. And that's why I can't take the magnesium / malic very often.
In addition, it seems a pretty safe bet that the dystonia is a factor in my insomnia. And on top of that, I'm inclined to think that all of the inflammation caused by this muscle tension is having an adverse effect on my adrenal gland.
By far the most effective treatment for CD is Botox. I've had three rounds of injections so far and the results have been limited, but impressive. Locked muscles are now melted butter. We haven't found the key muscle or the correct dosage yet, but we're looking.
I just hope this shit doesn't kill me before we find it.
posted by Clay201 at 11:28 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
I have FMS/CFS (Fibromyalgia Syndrome / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). Along with the fatigue and pain, I have a variety of symptoms and co-diseases: insomnia, acid reflux, frequent headaches, short term memory loss, rashes... I won't bore you with a complete list, but I promise you it's a long one. I have found a treatment that seems to help a lot with the fatigue, pain, and memory loss; magnesium with malic acid. But I can't take it very often.
See, one of my most inexplicable and misery inducing symptoms / co-diseases is cervical dystonia, which means I have a muscles (or muscles) in my neck that will not, no matter what, relax. It remains contracted every minute of the day. The other muscles in the neck pull and tense in response to it and so the whole neck/head area stays locked up like a tetanus infected speed freak. This leads to headaches and involuntary movements. And that's why I can't take the magnesium / malic very often.
In addition, it seems a pretty safe bet that the dystonia is a factor in my insomnia. And on top of that, I'm inclined to think that all of the inflammation caused by this muscle tension is having an adverse effect on my adrenal gland.
By far the most effective treatment for CD is Botox. I've had three rounds of injections so far and the results have been limited, but impressive. Locked muscles are now melted butter. We haven't found the key muscle or the correct dosage yet, but we're looking.
I just hope this shit doesn't kill me before we find it.
posted by Clay201 at 11:28 PM on April 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
I made this handy visual comparison of how dangerous various poisons are. The black box is a hypothetical poison that an amount the size of a grain of sand is dangerous enough to kill a 70kg human (well, actually, a hypothetical 70kg rat). So, for instance, you would have to inject about five grains of sand worth of cyanide to kill yourself.
Botulism toxin? About 1/228,000 of a grain of sand.
posted by Pyry at 1:45 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Botulism toxin? About 1/228,000 of a grain of sand.
posted by Pyry at 1:45 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
The thing about cosmetic surgery is that there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's a logical extension of hair dye and hair cuts and dressing nicely and whatnot. —dirtynumbangelboy
Yes, but we've really gotten quite good at dyeing hair. A decent colorist using quality chemicals can make it appear as though you were born with those awesome highlights, haven't developed a touch of gray, or really are a natural blonde.
For those of you who think it bizarre that someone would undergo painful procedures for beauty's sake, let me say this: it hurts less than plucking your eyebrows. —Evangeline
I submit that there's a perception (which I share) that cosmetic surgery tends to produce literally uncanny results, and that's why people feel comfortable mocking it. It's not that you endured pain for beauty's sake, but that you endured it for the sake of beauty and are assumed to have instead gotten an inhuman, false zombie-beauty. Photo comparisons like Joey Michaels' Defamer link, while probably documenting extremes, shape our perceptions of the outcome, and there's a certain schadenfreude to be found in seeing The Beautiful People hubristically grapple with their own rarified cases of body dysmorphia. Your results may have been fabulous, but we're so familiar with images of Botox having uglified people that it's hard to give it the benefit of the doubt.
posted by mumkin at 2:47 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, but we've really gotten quite good at dyeing hair. A decent colorist using quality chemicals can make it appear as though you were born with those awesome highlights, haven't developed a touch of gray, or really are a natural blonde.
For those of you who think it bizarre that someone would undergo painful procedures for beauty's sake, let me say this: it hurts less than plucking your eyebrows. —Evangeline
I submit that there's a perception (which I share) that cosmetic surgery tends to produce literally uncanny results, and that's why people feel comfortable mocking it. It's not that you endured pain for beauty's sake, but that you endured it for the sake of beauty and are assumed to have instead gotten an inhuman, false zombie-beauty. Photo comparisons like Joey Michaels' Defamer link, while probably documenting extremes, shape our perceptions of the outcome, and there's a certain schadenfreude to be found in seeing The Beautiful People hubristically grapple with their own rarified cases of body dysmorphia. Your results may have been fabulous, but we're so familiar with images of Botox having uglified people that it's hard to give it the benefit of the doubt.
posted by mumkin at 2:47 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think this is a powerful lesson in listening to your instincts from the get-go. There really shouldn't be any reason why "I'm going to inject a powerful neurotoxin into your face" isn't the end of the conversation.
posted by tommasz at 6:03 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by tommasz at 6:03 AM on April 16, 2008
This is amusing and disturbing -- not the 'news' but the reactions in the thread. Evangeline, I too have had Botox, 2x a year for the past five years.
After having had breast cancer three times in twenty months, I had developed the most incredibly deep deep worry furrows (too young, two kids, incurable disease) between my brows. It made the phrase 'frown lines' seem prosaic. When Tx was completed, I was back to work, speechwriting for a well-known cosmetics mogul who shared office space with her husband-the-dermatologist. She and I hadn't seen each other since before my chemo -- just six months earlier -- and she could not believe those frown lines. As a welcome-back-to-the-land-of-the-living gift, she sat me in her husband's chair for Botox. I was torn between leaping up (believe me, more syringes I did not need) and being thrilled (I wanted my old face back).
I am very glad I sat still for it and I have it done 2x a year -- modest timetable. I have an animated, normal expression, light age-appropriate frown lines, and as the time between shots goes on, they get slightly deeper. I am never unable to frown, laugh, be surprised, orraise a Sicilian eyebrow in skepticism, including over Botox. No one would ever know I've had it. I have had no side effects.
Of course I've thought twice, googled, let a few extra months go by before getting it done again. But I've been around long enough to see many wonder treatments AND must-avoids (alcohol: bad, red wine: excellent!; butter: bad -- margarine: poison; sugar:bad --aspartame: poison) come and go (anybody remember the days when estrogen therapy for menopause seemed both medically and culturally "necessary"???).
So I'll factor this in and make an informed decision, just like every person who continues to buy a pack of smokes. But I'm not stupid, pathologically vain, or trying to hold on to my youth. I wanted the mirror to reflect my hopes for my health.
posted by thinkpiece at 7:36 AM on April 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
After having had breast cancer three times in twenty months, I had developed the most incredibly deep deep worry furrows (too young, two kids, incurable disease) between my brows. It made the phrase 'frown lines' seem prosaic. When Tx was completed, I was back to work, speechwriting for a well-known cosmetics mogul who shared office space with her husband-the-dermatologist. She and I hadn't seen each other since before my chemo -- just six months earlier -- and she could not believe those frown lines. As a welcome-back-to-the-land-of-the-living gift, she sat me in her husband's chair for Botox. I was torn between leaping up (believe me, more syringes I did not need) and being thrilled (I wanted my old face back).
I am very glad I sat still for it and I have it done 2x a year -- modest timetable. I have an animated, normal expression, light age-appropriate frown lines, and as the time between shots goes on, they get slightly deeper. I am never unable to frown, laugh, be surprised, orraise a Sicilian eyebrow in skepticism, including over Botox. No one would ever know I've had it. I have had no side effects.
Of course I've thought twice, googled, let a few extra months go by before getting it done again. But I've been around long enough to see many wonder treatments AND must-avoids (alcohol: bad, red wine: excellent!; butter: bad -- margarine: poison; sugar:bad --aspartame: poison) come and go (anybody remember the days when estrogen therapy for menopause seemed both medically and culturally "necessary"???).
So I'll factor this in and make an informed decision, just like every person who continues to buy a pack of smokes. But I'm not stupid, pathologically vain, or trying to hold on to my youth. I wanted the mirror to reflect my hopes for my health.
posted by thinkpiece at 7:36 AM on April 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
Some days I think MetaFilter exists just so keyboard jockeys can exercise their smug sense of superiority over others.
posted by rocket88 at 7:36 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by rocket88 at 7:36 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
I love the variety of comments in this thread, funny and intelligent (and sometimes both!). Clay201, I hope you continue to get whatever it is to help you, I had a friend w/Fibro and it's no laughing matter.
In regards to looks, I don't think I could get up the nerve to do either Botox or plastic surgery and I have never had the desire to do either, despite a scar on my face from an unfortunate toy shovel accident when I was 4 (you can't see it unless you look really close, it's in one of my laugh lines). The metal corner sliced right through my face and the doc told my parents I could opt for plastic surgery after I was through the adult-face-growing stage later on in life. Fortunately, I am a grannie now so I don't have to worry about my wrinkles, cuz I earned 'em. Also I'm lucky enough to have good genes. I hope most of my ensuing wrinkles come from laugh lines and not frown lines.
It is frightening to think Botox can travel along nerves to cause problems for people and I hope they figure it out soon.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:46 AM on April 16, 2008
In regards to looks, I don't think I could get up the nerve to do either Botox or plastic surgery and I have never had the desire to do either, despite a scar on my face from an unfortunate toy shovel accident when I was 4 (you can't see it unless you look really close, it's in one of my laugh lines). The metal corner sliced right through my face and the doc told my parents I could opt for plastic surgery after I was through the adult-face-growing stage later on in life. Fortunately, I am a grannie now so I don't have to worry about my wrinkles, cuz I earned 'em. Also I'm lucky enough to have good genes. I hope most of my ensuing wrinkles come from laugh lines and not frown lines.
It is frightening to think Botox can travel along nerves to cause problems for people and I hope they figure it out soon.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:46 AM on April 16, 2008
I'm sure you'd say the same thing to a doctor who proscribed penicillin too, because hey, it comes from OMG A FUNGUS!
Actually, it comes from a mold, but who's counting...
posted by Doohickie at 7:49 AM on April 16, 2008
Actually, it comes from a mold, but who's counting...
posted by Doohickie at 7:49 AM on April 16, 2008
Is it still ok to lick frogs?
posted by everichon at 7:50 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by everichon at 7:50 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's not that you endured pain for beauty's sake, but that you endured it for the sake of beauty and are assumed to have instead gotten an inhuman, false zombie-beauty.
There's a bunch of celebrities who've changed their appearance to the point that I've started to experience the uncanny valley affect with them. They mostly look human, but the proportions are off just enough for them to look alien.
posted by drezdn at 7:55 AM on April 16, 2008
There's a bunch of celebrities who've changed their appearance to the point that I've started to experience the uncanny valley affect with them. They mostly look human, but the proportions are off just enough for them to look alien.
posted by drezdn at 7:55 AM on April 16, 2008
It's pretty damn popular with men too
Yeah, I guess it's true that about the only looks-based commentary I've seen about a male candidate this election season concerns McCain's allegedly frozen forehead...
posted by transona5 at 7:56 AM on April 16, 2008
Yeah, I guess it's true that about the only looks-based commentary I've seen about a male candidate this election season concerns McCain's allegedly frozen forehead...
posted by transona5 at 7:56 AM on April 16, 2008
Yeah, I guess it's true that about the only looks-based commentary I've seen about a male candidate this election season concerns McCain's allegedly frozen forehead...
You must have missed the derision directed at John Edwards' haircut.
posted by OmieWise at 8:14 AM on April 16, 2008
You must have missed the derision directed at John Edwards' haircut.
posted by OmieWise at 8:14 AM on April 16, 2008
You must have missed Obama Girl, et al.
posted by thinkpiece at 8:22 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by thinkpiece at 8:22 AM on April 16, 2008
It's not that you endured pain for beauty's sake, but that you endured it for the sake of beauty and are assumed to have instead gotten an inhuman, false zombie-beauty.
Yes, I'm a beauty zombie. I just want Botox instead of brains. It's all I think about.
Brandon, I'll try to answer your questions, and thank you, by the way, for expressing genuine curiosity instead of judgment.
It's been quite awhile since I've had Botox. The results were noticeable but not drastic. The key, of course, is finding a doctor you trust. I had a furrow in between my eyes that made me look a little angry all the time, and Botox softened those lines. Why did I get it? Well, for one thing, I'm an actress. Just off-Off-Broadway, but nevertheless, my appearance is a concern.
Mainly though, there was something about my face I didn't like, I had the money and opportunity to change it, I considered it a minor procedure, so I did it. Pretty simple.
NOW HERE'S THE BIG NEWS. My one problem with Botox is that the effect is too short-lived, so about three years ago, I got an endoscopic brow lift. You heard me right! Bring it on! It looks natural, I can still move my forehead, and I don't look tired and angry now. Pictures available on request.
I firmly believe if you can change something about yourself you don't like, then do it. Why suffer? Because it's noble? Because it makes you feel superior to all those women and men "grasping at their lost youth"? Go ahead and suffer. Yeah, maybe I'm vain, but at almost 40 I get mistaken for 30, and I like that. So hate on, folks, and I'll just keep on lookin' great.
posted by Evangeline at 8:44 AM on April 16, 2008 [4 favorites]
Yes, I'm a beauty zombie. I just want Botox instead of brains. It's all I think about.
Brandon, I'll try to answer your questions, and thank you, by the way, for expressing genuine curiosity instead of judgment.
It's been quite awhile since I've had Botox. The results were noticeable but not drastic. The key, of course, is finding a doctor you trust. I had a furrow in between my eyes that made me look a little angry all the time, and Botox softened those lines. Why did I get it? Well, for one thing, I'm an actress. Just off-Off-Broadway, but nevertheless, my appearance is a concern.
Mainly though, there was something about my face I didn't like, I had the money and opportunity to change it, I considered it a minor procedure, so I did it. Pretty simple.
NOW HERE'S THE BIG NEWS. My one problem with Botox is that the effect is too short-lived, so about three years ago, I got an endoscopic brow lift. You heard me right! Bring it on! It looks natural, I can still move my forehead, and I don't look tired and angry now. Pictures available on request.
I firmly believe if you can change something about yourself you don't like, then do it. Why suffer? Because it's noble? Because it makes you feel superior to all those women and men "grasping at their lost youth"? Go ahead and suffer. Yeah, maybe I'm vain, but at almost 40 I get mistaken for 30, and I like that. So hate on, folks, and I'll just keep on lookin' great.
posted by Evangeline at 8:44 AM on April 16, 2008 [4 favorites]
To me, botox and other cosmetic procedures are no different from tattoos and piercings. Live and let live, folks. Try not to be so hung up on what other people are doing with their own bodies.
posted by rocket88 at 8:48 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by rocket88 at 8:48 AM on April 16, 2008
You must have missed Obama Girl, et al.
What does Obama Girl have to do with "looks based commentary [of] male candidates"?
posted by OmieWise at 9:18 AM on April 16, 2008
What does Obama Girl have to do with "looks based commentary [of] male candidates"?
posted by OmieWise at 9:18 AM on April 16, 2008
So black and sexy, you’re so fine
‘Cause I’ve got a crush on Obama
OmieWise, I was agreeing with your point by noting that Barack Obama has being on the receiving end of tons of looks-based commentary, Obama Girl as an example.
posted by thinkpiece at 10:03 AM on April 16, 2008
‘Cause I’ve got a crush on Obama
OmieWise, I was agreeing with your point by noting that Barack Obama has being on the receiving end of tons of looks-based commentary, Obama Girl as an example.
posted by thinkpiece at 10:03 AM on April 16, 2008
Actually, it comes from a mold, but who's counting...
Are you kidding? Molds are a type of fungi, although there are a few things called molds which are not fungi (such as slime molds), Penicillium chrysogenum is, in fact, a fungus.
posted by delmoi at 10:53 AM on April 16, 2008
Are you kidding? Molds are a type of fungi, although there are a few things called molds which are not fungi (such as slime molds), Penicillium chrysogenum is, in fact, a fungus.
posted by delmoi at 10:53 AM on April 16, 2008
Yes, I'm a beauty zombie. I just want Botox instead of brains. It's all I think about.[...] So hate on, folks, and I'll just keep on lookin' great. —Evangeline
I promise, I'm not hating. My point, which ericb exemplifies nicely, is that for those of us who haven't had work done, media images of plastic surgery disasters tend to dominate our perception of it. Partly because of the schadenfreude, but also because there are very few positive examples of cosmetic surgery. In fact, none are coming to mind at the moment. If the treatment works, it looks natural, and if it looks natural it tends not to be spoken of. I was honestly talking about perception and preconception of the practice, not to whatever your reality may be. I'm glad to hear you had a positive experience of it.
Which is all something of a derail from the main point, which should be Good God, what terrible news, a very common medical intervention has been shown to have potentially devastating side effects. I hope everyone is ok and that their brain stems don't go all relaxed. Because really, actual—non-Astro—zombies roaming the streets has got to be one of the last things this country needs right now.
posted by mumkin at 11:27 AM on April 16, 2008
I promise, I'm not hating. My point, which ericb exemplifies nicely, is that for those of us who haven't had work done, media images of plastic surgery disasters tend to dominate our perception of it. Partly because of the schadenfreude, but also because there are very few positive examples of cosmetic surgery. In fact, none are coming to mind at the moment. If the treatment works, it looks natural, and if it looks natural it tends not to be spoken of. I was honestly talking about perception and preconception of the practice, not to whatever your reality may be. I'm glad to hear you had a positive experience of it.
Which is all something of a derail from the main point, which should be Good God, what terrible news, a very common medical intervention has been shown to have potentially devastating side effects. I hope everyone is ok and that their brain stems don't go all relaxed. Because really, actual—non-Astro—zombies roaming the streets has got to be one of the last things this country needs right now.
posted by mumkin at 11:27 AM on April 16, 2008
Munkin, I wasn't speaking to you directly. I just like the idea of a beauty zombie. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you.
There's always a risk of going too far, a la Ms. Wildenstein. That's why it's so, so important to find a good doctor. I contemplated getting another procedure not too long ago, and my plastic surgeon flatly told me that I did not need it and he would not do it.
You're right - if the treatment works, most people won't realize you've had work done. That's why it's ridiculous to judge plastic surgery as a whole by examples of bad procedures you see in the media.
posted by Evangeline at 12:14 PM on April 16, 2008
There's always a risk of going too far, a la Ms. Wildenstein. That's why it's so, so important to find a good doctor. I contemplated getting another procedure not too long ago, and my plastic surgeon flatly told me that I did not need it and he would not do it.
You're right - if the treatment works, most people won't realize you've had work done. That's why it's ridiculous to judge plastic surgery as a whole by examples of bad procedures you see in the media.
posted by Evangeline at 12:14 PM on April 16, 2008
Can't get too worked up over this one. If people want to inject poisons into themselves, burn plant leaves and inhale them, or sniff glue -- more power to 'em. As long as you don't stick me or mine with the bill, I wish you the best of luck.
I've done more than my fair share of dangerously inadvisable things over the years, and I don't think that there's anything inherently superior about doing something dangerous because it's fun and thrilling, than doing it because you think it makes you look hot. It's really vanity either way.
Personally I'd be all for creating a new class of medical professionals, who exist purely to deliver whatever services people want done to themselves. The hell with "do no harm;" what arrogance. If people want to be harmed, if they enjoy being harmed, for whatever reason, then they can go and get harmed. Want poisons injected into your face? Sure! Want that pesky extra limb taken off? No problem. Want dangerous and unnecessary elective surgery just for the hell of it? Sign the waiver and get on the table. We're most of the way there already; let's get rid of the hypocrisy.
Some people like skydiving or riding motorcycles on the Beltway, some people like getting buffed and tucked and liposuctioned. As long as you're not forcing it on anybody, or financing your hobbies by holding up 7-Elevens, I don't see that it's anyone else's business.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:28 PM on April 16, 2008
I've done more than my fair share of dangerously inadvisable things over the years, and I don't think that there's anything inherently superior about doing something dangerous because it's fun and thrilling, than doing it because you think it makes you look hot. It's really vanity either way.
Personally I'd be all for creating a new class of medical professionals, who exist purely to deliver whatever services people want done to themselves. The hell with "do no harm;" what arrogance. If people want to be harmed, if they enjoy being harmed, for whatever reason, then they can go and get harmed. Want poisons injected into your face? Sure! Want that pesky extra limb taken off? No problem. Want dangerous and unnecessary elective surgery just for the hell of it? Sign the waiver and get on the table. We're most of the way there already; let's get rid of the hypocrisy.
Some people like skydiving or riding motorcycles on the Beltway, some people like getting buffed and tucked and liposuctioned. As long as you're not forcing it on anybody, or financing your hobbies by holding up 7-Elevens, I don't see that it's anyone else's business.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:28 PM on April 16, 2008
Well, the reason that there are no positive examples of plastic surgery is... if it's done well you don't notice it and people don't talk about it. And why admit you've had it if people can't tell?
There's a website called goodplasticsurgery.com and one called awfulplasticsurgery.com. Guess which one gets thousands of hits daily and which one doesn't? Never underestimate the power of schadenfreude.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's a website called goodplasticsurgery.com and one called awfulplasticsurgery.com. Guess which one gets thousands of hits daily and which one doesn't? Never underestimate the power of schadenfreude.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
« Older Screw it! | Sick Around the World Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Zinger at 5:35 PM on April 15, 2008