"You look a little guilty, old buddy. Whatcha been up to?"
May 24, 2008 8:06 PM Subscribe
Jack Chick and his cracktasticness has certainly been covered on Metafilter before. However, in one fell swoop, his cracktasticness has not only squared but cubed. Chick's pamphlet, Lisa (curiously absent from the tracts on his site), features a father who gave herpes to his little daughter and then pimps his daughter out to his similarly pedophilic neighbor (who thinks the "pretty juicy gossip" is "pretty kinky") in exchange for the neighbor's silence. Two months of abuse later, the family doctor discovers Lisa's herpes, and does not report the father to the police, because ... well, you'll see. (Makes the Old Ones look better and better.)
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
New York City punk rockers Alice Donut wrote a song based on this comic, the video for which made the rounds in the early '90's. Viewable here.
posted by monospace at 8:21 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by monospace at 8:21 PM on May 24, 2008
And Jessi Colter had a song "I'm Not Lisa" but I doubt it's connected to the comic. I keed!
posted by dawson at 8:27 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by dawson at 8:27 PM on May 24, 2008
Bummer for Henry.
The man you thought was your family doctor tuned out to be a prothelising wanker. That would suck.
posted by mattoxic at 8:28 PM on May 24, 2008
The man you thought was your family doctor tuned out to be a prothelising wanker. That would suck.
posted by mattoxic at 8:28 PM on May 24, 2008
and does not report the father to the police, because ... well, you'll see.
Because he accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and all is well?
Actually, I knew that was going to be the answer before I even read the comic.
I grew up in a fundamentalist/Evangelical household, and I can attest to the fact that their theology has a bit of a gaping hole in the center. The main problem with their Soteriology is that, according to their reading of the Bible, anyone who says The Sinner's Prayer with a "true heart" (a purposely vague phrase) will automatically go to heaven, no matter what.
So even if Adolph Hitler had, in his final breath, truly said "Wow, Jesus, I've been a bad dude, please forgive me and come into my life and stuff.", the next moment he would have been hanging out with the Big G on the streets of gold -- punishment free.
Granted, there really isn't a "sinner's prayer" in the Bible, nor does Jesus ever explicitly guarantee anything other than pain and suffering for his followers, along with making it quite clear that many of his followers would go to hell anyway -- specifically, his followers who refuse to care for the poor and destitute.
Nevertheless, the "instant forgiveness for all past wrongs" is still a mainstay of fundamentalist/Evangelical theology. Most of the people I went to church with were, despite their religion, decent folk. I'd like to think that none of them would ever let a child-molester walk free just because he "accepted Jesus" -- but I'm not sure, as the opportunity (thankfully) never presented itself.
At least we know Jack Chick's feelings on the matter.
posted by Avenger at 8:37 PM on May 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
Because he accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and all is well?
Actually, I knew that was going to be the answer before I even read the comic.
I grew up in a fundamentalist/Evangelical household, and I can attest to the fact that their theology has a bit of a gaping hole in the center. The main problem with their Soteriology is that, according to their reading of the Bible, anyone who says The Sinner's Prayer with a "true heart" (a purposely vague phrase) will automatically go to heaven, no matter what.
So even if Adolph Hitler had, in his final breath, truly said "Wow, Jesus, I've been a bad dude, please forgive me and come into my life and stuff.", the next moment he would have been hanging out with the Big G on the streets of gold -- punishment free.
Granted, there really isn't a "sinner's prayer" in the Bible, nor does Jesus ever explicitly guarantee anything other than pain and suffering for his followers, along with making it quite clear that many of his followers would go to hell anyway -- specifically, his followers who refuse to care for the poor and destitute.
Nevertheless, the "instant forgiveness for all past wrongs" is still a mainstay of fundamentalist/Evangelical theology. Most of the people I went to church with were, despite their religion, decent folk. I'd like to think that none of them would ever let a child-molester walk free just because he "accepted Jesus" -- but I'm not sure, as the opportunity (thankfully) never presented itself.
At least we know Jack Chick's feelings on the matter.
posted by Avenger at 8:37 PM on May 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
Avenger writes "So even if Adolph Hitler had, in his final breath, truly said 'Wow, Jesus, I've been a bad dude, please forgive me and come into my life and stuff.', the next moment he would have been hanging out with the Big G on the streets of gold -- punishment free."
Adolf Hitler was a hunter sent by God, to fulfill God's plan. As McCain endorser John Hagee explained. Why would he have to apologize?
posted by orthogonality at 9:08 PM on May 24, 2008
Adolf Hitler was a hunter sent by God, to fulfill God's plan. As McCain endorser John Hagee explained. Why would he have to apologize?
posted by orthogonality at 9:08 PM on May 24, 2008
Thank god someone mentioned "Lisa's Father" (which came out in '88, but I can see where the presciently sarcastic tone would make you think it was from the 90's). I always thought that was a great song - when I first heard it as a teenager because it mocked the xians, but later because it actually was so good at exposing how very disrespectful the story was to Lisa's suffering.
Fucking punk rock genius, people.
posted by smartyboots at 9:11 PM on May 24, 2008
Fucking punk rock genius, people.
posted by smartyboots at 9:11 PM on May 24, 2008
"Two months of abuse later, the family doctor discovers Lisa's herpes, and does not report the father to the police, because ... well, you'll see."
Well at least we know that this is something that could only happen in the world of Jack Chick's tracts.
Hmm, what?
Oh yeah. That thing.
posted by Effigy2000 at 9:14 PM on May 24, 2008
Well at least we know that this is something that could only happen in the world of Jack Chick's tracts.
Hmm, what?
Oh yeah. That thing.
posted by Effigy2000 at 9:14 PM on May 24, 2008
Did your church ever burn a perfect hacatomb for us, John?
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:17 PM on May 24, 2008 [12 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:17 PM on May 24, 2008 [12 favorites]
I thought the like to "The Old Ones" was going to be the Cthuloid tract in which, if you worshiped Cthulhu really really hard you could be one of the last ones to be devoured.
For bonus points: how you would tell a Cthulhu worshiper operating on this moral principal from Fred Phelps?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:24 PM on May 24, 2008
For bonus points: how you would tell a Cthulhu worshiper operating on this moral principal from Fred Phelps?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:24 PM on May 24, 2008
You'll rot in the ground with everyone else for this, Lisa's father!
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:29 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:29 PM on May 24, 2008
This was awesome. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to destroy my family with pornography. I figure I'll need a whole bunch - they're pretty jaded.
posted by chudmonkey at 9:50 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by chudmonkey at 9:50 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah. That thing.
Actually, Jack Chick (and many fundies of his ilk) believes that the Catholic church was created by Satan himself in order to trick people. It has something to do with Semiramis and Nimrod, or some such gobbledegook, I don't know, it's pretty nonsensical. His "proof" is that the Eucharist, saints, Mary as Jesus' conscience in Heaven, etc., is never mentioned in the Bible. While neglecting to mention, of course, that neither is the rapture, the idea that "accepting Jesus as your personal savior" instantly guarantees a spot in Heaven, or pretty much any of the other wacky crap he preaches in his comics.
You know, I know we're supposed to believe that the vile, twisted religion of Jack Chick and John Hagee and Jerry Falwell and the rest is the product of an extremely vocal, misguided minority, but the way I was even introduced to Chick was through a friend of mine's dad who had a huge collection of his tracts, and he was by all appearances a normal, church-going guy. I think it's more like Chick et al are vocal, not that they necessarily believe any differently than your average Bible-thumper.
posted by DecemberBoy at 9:51 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Actually, Jack Chick (and many fundies of his ilk) believes that the Catholic church was created by Satan himself in order to trick people. It has something to do with Semiramis and Nimrod, or some such gobbledegook, I don't know, it's pretty nonsensical. His "proof" is that the Eucharist, saints, Mary as Jesus' conscience in Heaven, etc., is never mentioned in the Bible. While neglecting to mention, of course, that neither is the rapture, the idea that "accepting Jesus as your personal savior" instantly guarantees a spot in Heaven, or pretty much any of the other wacky crap he preaches in his comics.
You know, I know we're supposed to believe that the vile, twisted religion of Jack Chick and John Hagee and Jerry Falwell and the rest is the product of an extremely vocal, misguided minority, but the way I was even introduced to Chick was through a friend of mine's dad who had a huge collection of his tracts, and he was by all appearances a normal, church-going guy. I think it's more like Chick et al are vocal, not that they necessarily believe any differently than your average Bible-thumper.
posted by DecemberBoy at 9:51 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, anyone suspect that ol' Jack might be speaking from personal experience here? Maybe there's a reason why there are no known, confirmed photographs of him in existence. Maybe when he finally dies, there might be a discovery of, to quote Bill Hicks, "his collection of little shoes".
posted by DecemberBoy at 10:00 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by DecemberBoy at 10:00 PM on May 24, 2008
In the fundamentalist circles that I was raised in there's a separation between forgiveness of sin and the consequences of sin. If a child molester gets saved, then he doesn't have to go to hell any more, but he still should go to jail and be punished for his wrong-doing.
The example that they might point to that of is King David. After he had an affair with Bathsheba, he tried to cover it up by putting her husband on the front lines of battle, where he was killed. When the prophet Nathan confronted David with his sin, David repented, and begged God's forgiveness. While God forgave him, he still lost his firstborn son for his sin.
Likewise, at one point David numbered the people after God explicitly told him not to. When confronted with his sin, David again repented, but the nation had to suffer three days of pestilence that killed 70,000 people.
(You know, as I look at that, I notice that other people tended to suffer a lot more for David's sin than David did.)
But, God forgave him and in the new testament refers to David as a "man after God's own heart." The forgiveness of sin at the moment of salvation is the start of the new relationship with God, but it doesn't mean that you can ignore the consequences of your actions.
posted by JDHarper at 10:11 PM on May 24, 2008
The example that they might point to that of is King David. After he had an affair with Bathsheba, he tried to cover it up by putting her husband on the front lines of battle, where he was killed. When the prophet Nathan confronted David with his sin, David repented, and begged God's forgiveness. While God forgave him, he still lost his firstborn son for his sin.
Likewise, at one point David numbered the people after God explicitly told him not to. When confronted with his sin, David again repented, but the nation had to suffer three days of pestilence that killed 70,000 people.
(You know, as I look at that, I notice that other people tended to suffer a lot more for David's sin than David did.)
But, God forgave him and in the new testament refers to David as a "man after God's own heart." The forgiveness of sin at the moment of salvation is the start of the new relationship with God, but it doesn't mean that you can ignore the consequences of your actions.
posted by JDHarper at 10:11 PM on May 24, 2008
Ironic anecdote. I first stumbled upon Chick's ridiculous comics over a decade ago when I had a chance to backpack in Hawai'i for three weeks. I was blissfully at peace there. I thought, "Man, this is paradise; the landscape is so pristine and beautiful." Then I looked down and found a box of Chick tracts lying there in the middle of the jungle... (I still have them, I can't seem to throw them out!)
posted by aletheia at 10:16 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by aletheia at 10:16 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
I usually find Chick's tracts funny, but that is just fucked up.
posted by homunculus at 10:22 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 10:22 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
THAT'S TWO TIME YOU USED THE WORD "cracktasticness" - YOU'RE OVER YOUR LIMIT BY TWO! HAND OVER YOUR "cracktasticness" LICENSE NOW!
posted by wfrgms at 10:23 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by wfrgms at 10:23 PM on May 24, 2008
While God forgave him, he still lost his firstborn son for his sin.
WTF, God?
posted by five fresh fish at 10:28 PM on May 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
WTF, God?
posted by five fresh fish at 10:28 PM on May 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
Not to get all technical, but I'm pretty sure the implication was that the neighbor gave Lisa herpes, not the Dad.
posted by tkolar at 10:28 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by tkolar at 10:28 PM on May 24, 2008
While God forgave him, he still lost his firstborn son for his sin.No kidding. When I was raised in this stuff, I somehow never noticed these kinds of injustices. Now I look at stories like this and wonder how I could have missed them.
WTF, God?
Every week my youth pastor would say to the class "God is good all the time," and we were expected to repeat back "All the time God is good." But that's not what I see in my Bible.
</digression>
posted by JDHarper at 10:40 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
but the way I was even introduced to Chick was through a friend of mine's dad who had a huge collection of his tracts, and he was by all appearances a normal, church-going guy
Hi there, sonny. If you can keep a secret, I'll let you come down to the den and take a look at my collection of Jack Chick tracts. But you mustn't tell anyone about this -- some people just don't get the man's power and his glory.
By the way, those are some mighty fine biceps on you, boy. Perfect for doing His work. Good strong thighs as well. What say you and I drop down to our knees and pray right here, and while we do that, I'll lay my hands on your big strong body and cast out those demons that are inhabiting your flesh in Jesus name?
And while we do that, you can peruse the pictures of these filthy, sluttish sinners in ol' Jack's tracts. They're going to hell, m'boy. Each and every one of them. And if you wanna avoid the same fate, you'll get down on your knees right now. That's it. Oh yes, that's the way. In JEBUS name...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:55 PM on May 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
Hi there, sonny. If you can keep a secret, I'll let you come down to the den and take a look at my collection of Jack Chick tracts. But you mustn't tell anyone about this -- some people just don't get the man's power and his glory.
By the way, those are some mighty fine biceps on you, boy. Perfect for doing His work. Good strong thighs as well. What say you and I drop down to our knees and pray right here, and while we do that, I'll lay my hands on your big strong body and cast out those demons that are inhabiting your flesh in Jesus name?
And while we do that, you can peruse the pictures of these filthy, sluttish sinners in ol' Jack's tracts. They're going to hell, m'boy. Each and every one of them. And if you wanna avoid the same fate, you'll get down on your knees right now. That's it. Oh yes, that's the way. In JEBUS name...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:55 PM on May 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
Hi there, sonny. If you can keep a secret, I'll let you come down to the den and take a look at my collection of Jack Chick tracts.
Oh God, it's true... *sob* it's all true... listen, when he said "spare the rod, spoil the child", I didn't know what kind of "rod" he was talking about!
Actually, they were by all outwards appearances a normal family, although both the sons had Biblical names. I used to hang out at his house a lot, and me and my friend would go to the corner video store (remember those?) and rent cheesy horror movies and listen to old punk and hardcore vinyl on their turntable, so they weren't mega-fundies that controlled every aspect of their kids' lives including access to media. That's the disconnect, though - it makes one wonder how many more or less normal people believe that the Catholic church was created by Satan and that the whole scam was revealed by an ex-Jesuit named Father Alberto.
posted by DecemberBoy at 12:02 AM on May 25, 2008
Oh God, it's true... *sob* it's all true... listen, when he said "spare the rod, spoil the child", I didn't know what kind of "rod" he was talking about!
Actually, they were by all outwards appearances a normal family, although both the sons had Biblical names. I used to hang out at his house a lot, and me and my friend would go to the corner video store (remember those?) and rent cheesy horror movies and listen to old punk and hardcore vinyl on their turntable, so they weren't mega-fundies that controlled every aspect of their kids' lives including access to media. That's the disconnect, though - it makes one wonder how many more or less normal people believe that the Catholic church was created by Satan and that the whole scam was revealed by an ex-Jesuit named Father Alberto.
posted by DecemberBoy at 12:02 AM on May 25, 2008
But that's not what I see in my Bible.
The Old Testament doesn't count. Jesus rolled back the odometer when he showed up on the scene. They just left that stuff in as a make-work project for monk transcribers.
posted by GuyZero at 12:02 AM on May 25, 2008 [4 favorites]
The Old Testament doesn't count. Jesus rolled back the odometer when he showed up on the scene. They just left that stuff in as a make-work project for monk transcribers.
posted by GuyZero at 12:02 AM on May 25, 2008 [4 favorites]
And hey, if you're a Chick fan, be sure to check out his "animated" (it's all still paintings with narration) film The Light Of The World. It's not as crazy as some of his wackier tracts (like the one in the post), but its account of the crucifixion is on par with The Passion of The Christ for goofy, overblown violence. At one point it uses a crappy diagram with big red arrows, in the style of a cleaning product commercial when trying to show how Windex "scientifically removes dirt" or something, to show the pain of the nails being hammered in. And a scene at the end depicts the hellbound, including a Hasidic Jew, a basketball player, a guy on a skateboard, and every random thing you can imagine. Don't order it if you don't want to be on Chick's mailing list until the end of time (or the Rapture, I guess), though. It's not all bad, since you get free samples of new tracts in the mail and catalogs full of books about how rock music was created by Satan via the Catholic church (of course), and "insider accounts" of Satanic cults, witches' covens and Freemasonry, all written by the same guy. He gets around, I guess.
posted by DecemberBoy at 12:18 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DecemberBoy at 12:18 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Pony request: can we get an automatic "batshitinsane" tag added whenever a "jackchick" tag is found?
posted by TedW at 12:58 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by TedW at 12:58 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Man, life would be so much more interesting if rock music really was created by the Catholic Church in cooperation with Satan.
And by "life" I mean the Grammys.
posted by Avenger at 1:05 AM on May 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
And by "life" I mean the Grammys.
posted by Avenger at 1:05 AM on May 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
Pony request: can we get an automatic "batshitinsane" tag added whenever a "jackchick" tag is found?
Wouldn't that be redundant?
posted by louche mustachio at 1:46 AM on May 25, 2008
Every week my youth pastor would say to the class "God is good all the time," and we were expected to repeat back "All the time God is good." But that's not what I see in my Bible.
I am not a theologian, but my understanding is that Christians believe that the very *definition* of good is provided by God. In their world, there are no rules or morality independent of God. He is literally a giant puppetmaster and your happiness will be directly correlated with how closely you hew to his arbitrary rules, if you can even figure out what they are. If God kicks you in the balls all day long, that is Good, if you save a baby that God is trying to kill, that is Bad. It's really quite simple, actually, if a bit circular.
So while you can say, "wow, God was kind of dick to the people in David's country, I guess he's not always good", from a Christian's perspective you're putting the cart before the horse. Because it was God being a dick, in that situation being a dick was totally Good.
posted by breath at 1:49 AM on May 25, 2008 [6 favorites]
I am not a theologian, but my understanding is that Christians believe that the very *definition* of good is provided by God. In their world, there are no rules or morality independent of God. He is literally a giant puppetmaster and your happiness will be directly correlated with how closely you hew to his arbitrary rules, if you can even figure out what they are. If God kicks you in the balls all day long, that is Good, if you save a baby that God is trying to kill, that is Bad. It's really quite simple, actually, if a bit circular.
So while you can say, "wow, God was kind of dick to the people in David's country, I guess he's not always good", from a Christian's perspective you're putting the cart before the horse. Because it was God being a dick, in that situation being a dick was totally Good.
posted by breath at 1:49 AM on May 25, 2008 [6 favorites]
Because it was God being a dick, in that situation being a dick was totally Good.
Being God sounds like a good job. If I were God, it'd be really good. I wish I were God.
posted by WalterMitty at 3:20 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Being God sounds like a good job. If I were God, it'd be really good. I wish I were God.
posted by WalterMitty at 3:20 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sooo Lisa's Father becomes a pedophile because his wife stops putting out... wow, that's twisted even for Chick (though it fits into all that 'surrendered wife' context of wackier trends of Christianity)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:38 AM on May 25, 2008
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:38 AM on May 25, 2008
Being God sounds like a good job. If I were God, it'd be really good. I wish I were God.Eponysterical?
posted by WalterMitty
breath: This is actually the issue that broke my faith as a fundamentalist Christian. I realized that the only way to justify God's calls for genocide in the Old Testament was to say that because God was the one doing it, it was right.
My moral compass just won't twist that far.
posted by JDHarper at 5:33 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Then I looked down and found a box of Chick tracts lying there in the middle of the jungle...
Please, oh please, let this NOT become the new global "porn in the woods."
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:29 AM on May 25, 2008 [3 favorites]
Please, oh please, let this NOT become the new global "porn in the woods."
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:29 AM on May 25, 2008 [3 favorites]
Every week my youth pastor would say to the class "God is good all the time," and we were expected to repeat back "All the time God is good." But that's not what I see in my Bible.
One of the best philosophical allegories for this: "It's a Good Life" by Jerome Bixby. (Yes, that Twilight Zone episode.)
It's good that God did that thing he did. So good.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 6:53 AM on May 25, 2008 [9 favorites]
One of the best philosophical allegories for this: "It's a Good Life" by Jerome Bixby. (Yes, that Twilight Zone episode.)
It's good that God did that thing he did. So good.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 6:53 AM on May 25, 2008 [9 favorites]
Oh but there is, IMHO, a finer example of the Cthulhu tract: Who Shall Be Eaten First.
posted by Durruti at 7:05 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Durruti at 7:05 AM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Being God sounds like a good job. If I were God, it'd be really good. I wish I were God.It's great to be the King!
posted by notsnot at 7:07 AM on May 25, 2008
How did the doctor know about the pornography?
Someone needs to build a Jack Chick "continuity errors and other goofs" site.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:18 AM on May 25, 2008
Someone needs to build a Jack Chick "continuity errors and other goofs" site.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:18 AM on May 25, 2008
Nice post, WCMike, but "Who's the Boss" did it first.
posted by not_on_display at 9:59 AM on May 25, 2008
posted by not_on_display at 9:59 AM on May 25, 2008
If anyone wants some serious background on Mr Chick and his works, allow me to recommend The Unofficial Guide to the Art of Jack T. Chick: Chick Tracts, Crusader Comics, And Battle Cry Newspapers. It is truly, truly wonderful.
posted by jtron at 2:25 PM on May 25, 2008
posted by jtron at 2:25 PM on May 25, 2008
I realize that blind faith has its benefits, but there are times when I wish some people could see the cognitive dissonance staring them in the face.
I recommend taking a course in logic. I took one in college; a fundie was in my class and dropped out after a week. I like to imagine that he re-evaluated his life and applied critical thinking to his closely-held tenets. But if crap like this doesn't cause cognitive dissonance, I don't think any amount of Occam's Razor will help.
posted by Monochrome at 9:12 PM on May 26, 2008
I recommend taking a course in logic. I took one in college; a fundie was in my class and dropped out after a week. I like to imagine that he re-evaluated his life and applied critical thinking to his closely-held tenets. But if crap like this doesn't cause cognitive dissonance, I don't think any amount of Occam's Razor will help.
posted by Monochrome at 9:12 PM on May 26, 2008
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