Why?
September 6, 2008 2:51 PM Subscribe
'There are two Americas - separate, unequal, and no longer even acknowledging each other except on the barest cultural terms. In the one nation, new millionaires are minted every day. In the other, human beings no longer necessary to our economy, to our society, are being devalued and destroyed' David Simon on The Escalating Breakdown Of Urban Society Across The US
David Simon on the End of the American Empire: 1, 2, 3
posted by dhammond at 3:04 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by dhammond at 3:04 PM on September 6, 2008
I found it fascinating from beginning to end, though admittedly he does spend a lot of time developing the background for his eventual answer to the initial question. But I don't think the words were wasted, and along the way he addresses several things I've been wondering about.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:08 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:08 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Some were charged, but few were prosecuted. And in 25,000 such cases, they were later freed from the detention facility without ever going to court; no charges were proffered because, well, no crime had been committed.
I wonder how long they remained locked up before getting released. I had a client who got locked up 14 months ago and still hasn't had a trial. I just checked his docket, his case has been continued twelve times. And for about six of those 14 months they even shipped him into the state prison system because of overcrowding at the county level. So this 22 year old kid, who, mind you, was certainly no saint going into this, wound up doing time with the hardest criminals in the state without ever having set foot in front of a judge. Hopefully a judge will eventually see how long he's been sitting around and Nolle Prosse him like they do everyone else they hold onto and eventually release. That seems to be the new way of doing things, rather than actually building cases against every person who gets charged, the DA hangs onto them as long as possible and then rather than actually mount a trial against them drops the charges due to lack of evidence.
posted by The Straightener at 3:41 PM on September 6, 2008 [5 favorites]
I wonder how long they remained locked up before getting released. I had a client who got locked up 14 months ago and still hasn't had a trial. I just checked his docket, his case has been continued twelve times. And for about six of those 14 months they even shipped him into the state prison system because of overcrowding at the county level. So this 22 year old kid, who, mind you, was certainly no saint going into this, wound up doing time with the hardest criminals in the state without ever having set foot in front of a judge. Hopefully a judge will eventually see how long he's been sitting around and Nolle Prosse him like they do everyone else they hold onto and eventually release. That seems to be the new way of doing things, rather than actually building cases against every person who gets charged, the DA hangs onto them as long as possible and then rather than actually mount a trial against them drops the charges due to lack of evidence.
posted by The Straightener at 3:41 PM on September 6, 2008 [5 favorites]
This article is already being discussed in an earlier thread, though it wasn't linked in the FPP.
posted by blasdelf at 3:42 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by blasdelf at 3:42 PM on September 6, 2008
...why city jurors - read "black people" - won't do their civic duty when it is, in fact, their communities that are so overwhelmed by crime.
Maybe they like crime. Maybe our country is so fat and happy and free, that some people feel secure enough to want to keep their neighborhoods a little crime-friendly, so as to enjoy the loose mores and low-societal expectations that go with living in such a community.
posted by Faze at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
Maybe they like crime. Maybe our country is so fat and happy and free, that some people feel secure enough to want to keep their neighborhoods a little crime-friendly, so as to enjoy the loose mores and low-societal expectations that go with living in such a community.
posted by Faze at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
You have the dubious distinction of having penned the first comment I ever felt necessary to flag (racist), so pat yourself on the back, Faze, I'm sure you'll be very satisfied by that.
posted by The Straightener at 3:53 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by The Straightener at 3:53 PM on September 6, 2008
I applaud the Baltimore juries in refusing to bring convictions in even major drug cases. As I recall, a similar phenomenon was the death knell of the religion-steeped witch hunts that plagued Europe and early America. Juries simply began to refuse to bring convictions and prosecutors and their religion-addled sycophants were shut down. May the Baltimore trend continue and grow and lead to the starvation and demise of the prosecutorial-prison-police industrial complex.
posted by telstar at 3:58 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by telstar at 3:58 PM on September 6, 2008
Damn. That was very good but very depressing.
posted by homunculus at 4:05 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by homunculus at 4:05 PM on September 6, 2008
As I recall, a similar phenomenon was the death knell of the religion-steeped witch hunts that plagued Europe and early America.
With all due respect, conflating the political act of jury nullification with the end result of witness intimidation is about the absolute height of naivete in this conversation. As someone who grew up in Baltimore and has spent more than a small amount of time in the neighborhoods described by David Simon, you're not even close to understanding what the fuck you're talking about.
posted by dhammond at 4:09 PM on September 6, 2008
With all due respect, conflating the political act of jury nullification with the end result of witness intimidation is about the absolute height of naivete in this conversation. As someone who grew up in Baltimore and has spent more than a small amount of time in the neighborhoods described by David Simon, you're not even close to understanding what the fuck you're talking about.
posted by dhammond at 4:09 PM on September 6, 2008
dhammond, you could, perhaps, tell us more about what's really going on, instead of attacking telstar? Calling him ignorant isn't very useful, if you don't elaborate. Tell us what you think the real causes and problems are.
posted by Malor at 4:17 PM on September 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Malor at 4:17 PM on September 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
Not to detract from the main point of the article, but I really appreciated Simon pointing out, in the Guardian no less, the hopeful schadenfreude of Europeans about America. I spent a year in England and although there are many things I love about that country, some people I met seemed to revel in everything wrong with my country. They were one reason I came back to the U.S.
posted by A dead Quaker at 4:18 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by A dead Quaker at 4:18 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
You have the dubious distinction of having penned the first comment I ever felt necessary to flag (racist), so pat yourself on the back, Faze, I'm sure you'll be very satisfied by that.
Why, because I respect people enough to presume that they make rational choices?
posted by Faze at 4:22 PM on September 6, 2008
Why, because I respect people enough to presume that they make rational choices?
posted by Faze at 4:22 PM on September 6, 2008
Tell us what you think the real causes and problems are.
If I may: Simon isn't saying that juries are failing to convict drug dealers and drug crimes as some sort of collective agreement to dismantle the drug laws. He's saying that the people of Baltimore no longer trust the police, and so they have, in the parlance of our day, "stopped snitching." It has to do with both a lack of confidence in the police of Baltimore and a shared fear of those who exact their justice outside of a court of law - the ones sitting on the witness stand.
posted by billysumday at 4:25 PM on September 6, 2008
If I may: Simon isn't saying that juries are failing to convict drug dealers and drug crimes as some sort of collective agreement to dismantle the drug laws. He's saying that the people of Baltimore no longer trust the police, and so they have, in the parlance of our day, "stopped snitching." It has to do with both a lack of confidence in the police of Baltimore and a shared fear of those who exact their justice outside of a court of law - the ones sitting on the witness stand.
posted by billysumday at 4:25 PM on September 6, 2008
It's obvious at this point that the groups setting the agenda--the government and media--are not going to address any social problems until something blows up in their face, in which case they'll just bury it and move on (Katrina). I was captivated by The Wire, and it's definitely one of the greatest works of art (or journalism, sadly) of my generation, but it offers no solutions, and it seems like all we can do is complain, and yes, become tired of being angry, and sad.
It seems like even the socially conscious among us see all of these issues in the abstract, something we can't influence or control in any way. And so despite our strong feelings we continue on with our lives as normal, not stopping to consider what sacrifices we could make in order to affect change in any way.
Maybe it's all of the Obama grassroots talk, or my years of cynicism leading to apathy have finally mutated into something else, but I feel I'm ready to take responsibility. I'm young and not tied down, so a lifestyle change would not be a huge sacrifice. There are lots of opportunities to get involved in my community that I'm exploring right now, and so I wonder what would happen if everyone like me, young and born into the middle class, with the education and intelligence to recognize these social issues, actually took responsibility for what we see as problems.
Because as it stands right now, a lot of us are being seduced by lucrative careers that do nothing to address social problems. I know a number of people who I can have long conversations with about the failures of American institutions, who make more in their straight-out-of-college-sales-and-IT-jobs than my mother, 25 years teaching special education, does now. But to suggest to them that they can express their concern for social issues through sacrificing and finding a more appropriate job just doesn't work. We don't have the values.
We are resigned to cynicism, convinced the institutions will screw us and change is impossible, and thus we do what we can here and there--donations to nonprofits, posts on the Internet lamenting the state of affairs, maybe some volunteer work once in a while. These are all fine, and commendable, but lifestyles need to change. Sacrifices have to be made. Everyone smart enough to see these problems needs to get involved, and spend as much time as possible involved, if they expect anything to change. I'm only responsible for myself, but I've seen my own cynicism reflected in a lot of friends over the years, and it's getting old.
As I see it, people like David Simon are doing what they can and getting the word out. But just hearing the words, and acknowledging their truth, doesn't accomplish anything. If we truly care we'll take action.
Sorry if this is slightly off-topic (and generalized), but it's something that's been on my mind, and David Simon's piece stirred it up again.
posted by palidor at 4:25 PM on September 6, 2008 [18 favorites]
It seems like even the socially conscious among us see all of these issues in the abstract, something we can't influence or control in any way. And so despite our strong feelings we continue on with our lives as normal, not stopping to consider what sacrifices we could make in order to affect change in any way.
Maybe it's all of the Obama grassroots talk, or my years of cynicism leading to apathy have finally mutated into something else, but I feel I'm ready to take responsibility. I'm young and not tied down, so a lifestyle change would not be a huge sacrifice. There are lots of opportunities to get involved in my community that I'm exploring right now, and so I wonder what would happen if everyone like me, young and born into the middle class, with the education and intelligence to recognize these social issues, actually took responsibility for what we see as problems.
Because as it stands right now, a lot of us are being seduced by lucrative careers that do nothing to address social problems. I know a number of people who I can have long conversations with about the failures of American institutions, who make more in their straight-out-of-college-sales-and-IT-jobs than my mother, 25 years teaching special education, does now. But to suggest to them that they can express their concern for social issues through sacrificing and finding a more appropriate job just doesn't work. We don't have the values.
We are resigned to cynicism, convinced the institutions will screw us and change is impossible, and thus we do what we can here and there--donations to nonprofits, posts on the Internet lamenting the state of affairs, maybe some volunteer work once in a while. These are all fine, and commendable, but lifestyles need to change. Sacrifices have to be made. Everyone smart enough to see these problems needs to get involved, and spend as much time as possible involved, if they expect anything to change. I'm only responsible for myself, but I've seen my own cynicism reflected in a lot of friends over the years, and it's getting old.
As I see it, people like David Simon are doing what they can and getting the word out. But just hearing the words, and acknowledging their truth, doesn't accomplish anything. If we truly care we'll take action.
Sorry if this is slightly off-topic (and generalized), but it's something that's been on my mind, and David Simon's piece stirred it up again.
posted by palidor at 4:25 PM on September 6, 2008 [18 favorites]
There were six men in Birmingham
In Guildford theres four
That were picked up and tortured
And framed by the law
And the filth got promotion
But they're still doing time
For being Irish in the wrong place
And at the wrong time
- 'Birmingham Six' (Shane MacGowan / Terry Woods)
posted by spoobnooble at 4:33 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
I live in a city that had a very high per capita homicide rate up until very recently. I can't say much about the conviction rates here v. the counties, but crime has gone down in an appreciable way that has changed the on-the-street feel in many neighborhoods. The consensus seems to be that a big part of this is due to organized and accountable sector-based policing and a sense of trust that the police department has created by readily communicating with people in the community.
A simple but effective outcome from this is that when there have been shootings, due to support in the community, the police have generally been able to get the shooter off of the street in a day or two (thus preventing retribution shootings). It is the exact opposite of Baltimore's "no snitching", and it has made a difference.
My point is that while Simon has a valid and very interesting story to tell, there are other positive stories that can be told that cover the same territory.
posted by john m at 4:50 PM on September 6, 2008
A simple but effective outcome from this is that when there have been shootings, due to support in the community, the police have generally been able to get the shooter off of the street in a day or two (thus preventing retribution shootings). It is the exact opposite of Baltimore's "no snitching", and it has made a difference.
My point is that while Simon has a valid and very interesting story to tell, there are other positive stories that can be told that cover the same territory.
posted by john m at 4:50 PM on September 6, 2008
What is this "Wire" he keeps talking about? Why did I get the feeling that if only I knew what this "Wire" thing was, I would understand what he was talking about?
Have we really been reduced to making social commentary by referencing TV shows?
That's beyond pathetic.
posted by monospace at 4:56 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Have we really been reduced to making social commentary by referencing TV shows?
That's beyond pathetic.
posted by monospace at 4:56 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Faze writes: Maybe they like crime. Maybe our country is so fat and happy and free, that some people feel secure enough to want to keep their neighborhoods a little crime-friendly, so as to enjoy the loose mores and low-societal expectations that go with living in such a community.
No, no, no, Faze. You mean loose shoes, man. Loose shoes.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:59 PM on September 6, 2008
No, no, no, Faze. You mean loose shoes, man. Loose shoes.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:59 PM on September 6, 2008
"David Simon (born 1960) is an American author, journalist, and writer/producer of television series. He worked for the Baltimore Sun City Desk for twelve years. He wrote the books Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets and The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood. The former was the basis for the NBC series Homicide: Life on the Street, on which Simon served as a writer and producer. Simon adapted the latter into the Emmy-award winning HBO mini-series The Corner. He was also the creator, show runner, executive producer and head writer of the critically acclaimed original HBO series The Wire."
posted by rtha at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by rtha at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Have we really been reduced to making social commentary by referencing TV shows?
You haven't seen "The Wire", I take it. Or read "Homicide: Life on the Killing Streets". Nor have you, I presume, RTFA.
As you say: That's beyond pathetic.
posted by billysumday at 5:12 PM on September 6, 2008 [5 favorites]
You haven't seen "The Wire", I take it. Or read "Homicide: Life on the Killing Streets". Nor have you, I presume, RTFA.
As you say: That's beyond pathetic.
posted by billysumday at 5:12 PM on September 6, 2008 [5 favorites]
> Have we really been reduced to making social commentary by referencing TV shows?
> That's beyond pathetic.
I think that's kind of his point, really. The Wire has gotten a lot of praise for going places that the media won't, and the gist of his essay seems to be that he thinks that's shameful (among other things).
posted by Kadin2048 at 5:13 PM on September 6, 2008
> That's beyond pathetic.
I think that's kind of his point, really. The Wire has gotten a lot of praise for going places that the media won't, and the gist of his essay seems to be that he thinks that's shameful (among other things).
posted by Kadin2048 at 5:13 PM on September 6, 2008
A return to class politics. The left needs to abandon the albatross of identity politics once and for all- the Republicans welcome identity issues because they can use them as a fear wedge. Democrats often run on (tepid) economic reforms for the middle and working class but then govern identically to Republicans when it comes to these issues. If wages are elevated, workers reoriented to new emerging industries (Hillary's green jobs), and schools enhanced by a new commitment to education funded by this revived tax base, blah blah.... people become more educated , open-minded, experienced, and the social issues (gay marriage) will take care of themselves.
posted by framedmistake at 5:29 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by framedmistake at 5:29 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
I loved the performance by Richard Price (also of the Wire) on This American Life. Still seems fishy to me.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:37 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:37 PM on September 6, 2008
It's time for a fucking revolution, is what it is. We need a world-wide movement to end the drug war, that would be a good start.
posted by empath at 5:42 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by empath at 5:42 PM on September 6, 2008
You mean loose shoes, man. Loose shoes.
Loose shoes
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:44 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Loose shoes
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:44 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Flap & co. -- The "they" I refer to in my initial, and for some reason controversial post, could be of any race. My "they" did not refer back to the word "black" in the passage I quoted.
posted by Faze at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by Faze at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2008
The "they" I refer to in my initial, and for some reason controversial post, could be of any race.
Venusian, for instance.
posted by regicide is good for you at 6:37 PM on September 6, 2008
Venusian, for instance.
posted by regicide is good for you at 6:37 PM on September 6, 2008
> I'm acutely aware [of] our dystopian depiction of Baltimore -- David Simon, writer for The Wire
..in case anyone thought otherwise.
posted by stbalbach at 7:05 PM on September 6, 2008
..in case anyone thought otherwise.
posted by stbalbach at 7:05 PM on September 6, 2008
I knew you were from richmond even before I clicked your profile john m...
I have to wonder how much of the drop in the crime/murder rate has to do with improved policing strategies and how much to do with the fact that a significant percent of the people most likely to commit violent crime (mostly poor, black people) who actually lived in Richmond City have been forced to either the other side of the river, or other side of the highway by the incredible amount of gentrification. I remember reading any article a couple of weeks ago about the changing demographics of american cities, how the poor have been pushed out of them at an incredible rate over the last couple of years as richer, whiter people flood back in. The article never mentioned Richmond specifically but when I moved here 3 summers ago we heard gun shots every night and I was warned about the staying Carver/Jackson Ward side of Broad St. Now the Carver and Jackson Ward neighborhoods have been removed from the "Ghetto" side and are firmly under the "Student Ghetto" heading, I haven't hear gunshots in a year and the condo to abandoned building ratio has increased a LOT.
You're pretty much the first person I've ever heard suggest that the new, improved Richmond is due to policing strategies, since everything I've ever heard about the Richmond PD has to do with their utter incompetence.
Two anecdotes from my personal experience - an acquaintance of a friend made money for a while breaking into cars in the west end and selling the ipods/computers/gps units he ripped off, one night he found a handgun under the drivers seat and took that too. 6 months later a drunk roommate blew his face off with the gun (luckily lived but lost an eye), owned up about the gun to the police, and they discovered it was an officers service weapon and did nothing about it because the last thing they need is more bad publicity (In Virginia, we have Project Exile which carries a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession of an illegal gun).
And the "Gang Bust" from a couple of years ago where the police raided the homes of about 20 middle class white kids who had started a "crew" that claimed CARYTOWN as its territory and had gotten into 3 or 4 fist fights (with not a single serious injury). After knocking down some doors with a battering ram, seizing a whole bunch of computers and cell phones and contributing to a large number of sensationalistic headlines, the RPD didn't succesfully prosecute a single one of them and the only charges filed were "Member of a Criminal Street Gang". Meanwhile, a police offer friend of mine has been trying to get the higher ups to put some pressure on a legitimately dangerous street gang on the south side whose crimes include robbery, drug dealing, and witness intimidation (Killing a dog and burning down a garage of suspected snitches) - but has been denied because they haven't demonstrated a "propensity for violence".
Do I even need to bring up the Community Officer stationed at Fulton Hill pool who not only let a drive-by shooting occur on his shift, but then allowed the victim to be transported in a civilian vehicle by his friend to the wrong hospital (Richmond has a hospital designated for gunshot trauma apparently)?
Where does this information about the RPD's new approach to policing? I would love to take a look at it.
posted by youthenrage at 7:11 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
I have to wonder how much of the drop in the crime/murder rate has to do with improved policing strategies and how much to do with the fact that a significant percent of the people most likely to commit violent crime (mostly poor, black people) who actually lived in Richmond City have been forced to either the other side of the river, or other side of the highway by the incredible amount of gentrification. I remember reading any article a couple of weeks ago about the changing demographics of american cities, how the poor have been pushed out of them at an incredible rate over the last couple of years as richer, whiter people flood back in. The article never mentioned Richmond specifically but when I moved here 3 summers ago we heard gun shots every night and I was warned about the staying Carver/Jackson Ward side of Broad St. Now the Carver and Jackson Ward neighborhoods have been removed from the "Ghetto" side and are firmly under the "Student Ghetto" heading, I haven't hear gunshots in a year and the condo to abandoned building ratio has increased a LOT.
You're pretty much the first person I've ever heard suggest that the new, improved Richmond is due to policing strategies, since everything I've ever heard about the Richmond PD has to do with their utter incompetence.
Two anecdotes from my personal experience - an acquaintance of a friend made money for a while breaking into cars in the west end and selling the ipods/computers/gps units he ripped off, one night he found a handgun under the drivers seat and took that too. 6 months later a drunk roommate blew his face off with the gun (luckily lived but lost an eye), owned up about the gun to the police, and they discovered it was an officers service weapon and did nothing about it because the last thing they need is more bad publicity (In Virginia, we have Project Exile which carries a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession of an illegal gun).
And the "Gang Bust" from a couple of years ago where the police raided the homes of about 20 middle class white kids who had started a "crew" that claimed CARYTOWN as its territory and had gotten into 3 or 4 fist fights (with not a single serious injury). After knocking down some doors with a battering ram, seizing a whole bunch of computers and cell phones and contributing to a large number of sensationalistic headlines, the RPD didn't succesfully prosecute a single one of them and the only charges filed were "Member of a Criminal Street Gang". Meanwhile, a police offer friend of mine has been trying to get the higher ups to put some pressure on a legitimately dangerous street gang on the south side whose crimes include robbery, drug dealing, and witness intimidation (Killing a dog and burning down a garage of suspected snitches) - but has been denied because they haven't demonstrated a "propensity for violence".
Do I even need to bring up the Community Officer stationed at Fulton Hill pool who not only let a drive-by shooting occur on his shift, but then allowed the victim to be transported in a civilian vehicle by his friend to the wrong hospital (Richmond has a hospital designated for gunshot trauma apparently)?
Where does this information about the RPD's new approach to policing? I would love to take a look at it.
posted by youthenrage at 7:11 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Simon article is heavy on hyperbole and weak on facts when it comes to Mayor O'Malley's crime round-ups. Sounds like certain parts of Baltimore are right out of Escape from New York. Would like to see some less "dystopian" counter-views.
posted by stbalbach at 7:13 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by stbalbach at 7:13 PM on September 6, 2008
Simon is dead accurate, as usual. I spent over two decades in and around that city, and it always boggled my mind how city money continuously rolled in primarly one direction - towards the Inner Harbor and downtown - while the rest of the city was relatively untouched. Southwest is in a time warp. All city planning is done around them. It's damn little wonder they create their own economy.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:14 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:14 PM on September 6, 2008
Baltimore is a wierd island of urban diversity floating in a sea of pretty homogeneous whitebread suburbs. There isn't much desire on the part of the surrounding jurisdictions to have a hand in helping Baltimore city; and they structure their tax codes and school systems accordingly. The result is a sad out-of-sight out-of-mind dynamic that will never improve until the majority takes responsibility for its policies of ghettoization. This is why I actually like gentrification sometimes, it gets people to pay attention (at least for a short time).
posted by sandking at 7:47 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by sandking at 7:47 PM on September 6, 2008
What's really frustrating is that we actually do know a lot more about how to help poor kids, deal with addiction and make many other policies better than we used to do-- and that doing it well wouldn't even cost much more than we already spend, in some instances much less-- but we don't seem to have the political will needed to get around the vested interests that keep things stuck.
those interests know even more than ever about effective politicking to block change-- so people will continue to vote against their interests because it's easier to frighten people than it is to inspire them.
posted by Maias at 7:48 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
those interests know even more than ever about effective politicking to block change-- so people will continue to vote against their interests because it's easier to frighten people than it is to inspire them.
posted by Maias at 7:48 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Simon article is heavy on hyperbole and weak on facts
posted by stbalbach
Simon is dead accurate, as usual.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing
Wow, whom to believe?
posted by Eekacat at 8:23 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by stbalbach
Simon is dead accurate, as usual.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing
Wow, whom to believe?
posted by Eekacat at 8:23 PM on September 6, 2008
That's a very interesting article; I agree that it is most powerful when talking about specifics of O'Malley's actions in Baltimore and less powerful when talking in generalities about the two separate Americas (even though I pretty much agree with the claim).
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:31 PM on September 6, 2008
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:31 PM on September 6, 2008
"Well, I guess Mr. Mayor, there's nothing to be done."
posted by mlis at 9:04 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by mlis at 9:04 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
> The Simon article is heavy on hyperbole and weak on facts when it comes to Mayor O'Malley's crime round-ups.
Here's some more information on the round-ups; I tried to pick a few sources so you could get a variety of perspectives. AFAICT, the actual facts aren't really in question: a large number of people were arrested, held, and later released without charges, and most were black from majority-black neighborhoods. Most of the argument seems to be about whether they did something to justify arrest, and whether the arrests in general had enough of an effect on the overall crime rate to be justified as a matter of policy.
ACLU, NAACP Sue Baltimore Over Illegal Arrests - AP
Debate on city arrests obscures key issues - Baltimore Daily Record (op piece)
State Delegate Drawing Attention to Increasing Number of Quality-Of-Life Arrests in Baltimore - Baltimore City Paper
Baltimore City defends arrest policies in lawsuit - Baltimore Daily Record
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:15 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
Here's some more information on the round-ups; I tried to pick a few sources so you could get a variety of perspectives. AFAICT, the actual facts aren't really in question: a large number of people were arrested, held, and later released without charges, and most were black from majority-black neighborhoods. Most of the argument seems to be about whether they did something to justify arrest, and whether the arrests in general had enough of an effect on the overall crime rate to be justified as a matter of policy.
ACLU, NAACP Sue Baltimore Over Illegal Arrests - AP
Debate on city arrests obscures key issues - Baltimore Daily Record (op piece)
State Delegate Drawing Attention to Increasing Number of Quality-Of-Life Arrests in Baltimore - Baltimore City Paper
Baltimore City defends arrest policies in lawsuit - Baltimore Daily Record
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:15 PM on September 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
I grew up in St. Louis, which also suffers serious segregation; some believe it was the working prototype for white flight. Anyone with the ability to hold a decent job ran off to the suburbs, which all indepently incorporated themselves, depriving the city of tax revenue. As a result, the inner city spiralled into disrepair and skyrocketing crime as the school systems imploded and the people making the money sighed and went on with their lives, sending their children to the good schools that their money helped to build. Until I was a teenager, I never really saw the desperate side of St. Louis - I've still only been to East St. Louis once, and then not for long - even though my parents drove to the core every day for their corporate jobs. They drove, though, on the interstates, and parked their cars in rather well-guarded parking structures; so even then contact could be said to be minimized.
What contact I had with the Other St. Louis came while going nightly to an all-night coffee shop on South Grand as a teenager, hanging out with the punks and the queers and the insomniacs right at the intersection of those two versions of my home city.
What made St. Louis this way? A combination of narrow self interest (on the part of those who made their way to the suburbs) and malicious and intentional class warfare (on the part of the governments of those incorporated suburbs). What did I get out of it? a bit of class guilt to go along with the utterly bland environment offered by my suburban upbringing.
I know I'm not responsible for this, but I hope to use my time here to make things a little bit better.
posted by kaibutsu at 10:54 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
What contact I had with the Other St. Louis came while going nightly to an all-night coffee shop on South Grand as a teenager, hanging out with the punks and the queers and the insomniacs right at the intersection of those two versions of my home city.
What made St. Louis this way? A combination of narrow self interest (on the part of those who made their way to the suburbs) and malicious and intentional class warfare (on the part of the governments of those incorporated suburbs). What did I get out of it? a bit of class guilt to go along with the utterly bland environment offered by my suburban upbringing.
I know I'm not responsible for this, but I hope to use my time here to make things a little bit better.
posted by kaibutsu at 10:54 PM on September 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
monospace:
Have we really been reduced to making social commentary by referencing TV shows?TFA:
Yet there is also something appalling in the suggestion that a television drama - a presumed entertainment - might be a focal point for a discussion of what has gone wrong in urban America, for why we have become a society that no longer even recognises the depth of our problems, much less works to solve any of them.posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:48 PM on September 6, 2008
I don't know if it's because I've had a few, and in that respect am coming from a similar place as many more poignant-(ish) comedians; However, I read the last bit of the headline as "Escalator breakdown of Urban Society across the US" and thought:
"Escalators can't break, they just temporarily become stairs!"
posted by self at 11:56 PM on September 6, 2008
"Escalators can't break, they just temporarily become stairs!"
posted by self at 11:56 PM on September 6, 2008
I wish I were an English teacher or a Journalism professor.
That's like seeing the twin towers collapse and then applying to be the janitor.
posted by srboisvert at 5:33 AM on September 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
That's like seeing the twin towers collapse and then applying to be the janitor.
posted by srboisvert at 5:33 AM on September 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
there is also something appalling in the suggestion that a television drama - a presumed entertainment - might be a focal point for a discussion of what has gone wrong in urban America
Is his article about what has gone wrong with urban America, or is it about The Wire? Because it's filed under News > Media > The Wire...
posted by runkelfinker at 6:31 AM on September 7, 2008
Is his article about what has gone wrong with urban America, or is it about The Wire? Because it's filed under News > Media > The Wire...
posted by runkelfinker at 6:31 AM on September 7, 2008
For perspective on historical roots of the mistrust of police held by lower class/disenfranchised people, corruption within prison administration, ties between crime and political power, and the on-going denial that retribution based punishment does nothing but hog-tie convicts to crime for the rest of their lives, I recommend A Pickpocket's Tale: The Underworld of Nineteenth Century New York. This is up there with the best historical non-fiction I've ever read and is a gold mine of perspective on crime and punishment and justice in urban america. Insights can be gleaned about the world 125 years later from the stuff going on in this book. Drug wars back then: opium dens. Much of the community vs. police issues in this post were happening in 19th Century as well.
posted by spicynuts at 7:41 AM on September 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by spicynuts at 7:41 AM on September 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
Faze, I'm no bleeding-heart liberal, but Jesus. Have you ever been anywhere near a ghetto? I lived in Baltimore for two years, and although I lived in a decent neighborhood, I saw more than enough to realize that there are a lot of people who don't have many choices.
There are entire neighborhoods that look like war zones. There are no jobs except for fast food, and the people who live there can't afford cars to commute to a job in another area, and they lack the education to get those jobs anyway. Homelessness, alcoholism, drug addiction, drug violence, and mental illness are rampant. People can't afford even basic health care. And the Baltimore police and prison system is completely fucked up.
If you grow up in poverty, likely in a broken home, almost certainly surrounded by addiction and violence, with no opportunity to get even a decent grade-school education, and no opportunity to get a job that pays anywhere near a living wage, and with even the cops against you...well, no one chooses to live among this. (Zoom in, and note the way the map markers cluster.) There are surveillance cameras (if you see a flashing blue light on a pole, keep driving); police helicopters fly down the alleys with searchlights at night; there are entire blocks that are boarded up. Trust me—it's nothing anyone would choose for themselves.
(On a lighter, but still disturbing note, I give you one of Baltimore's more curious ghetto traditions: roving gangs of dirt bikers.)
posted by greenie2600 at 9:32 AM on September 7, 2008
There are entire neighborhoods that look like war zones. There are no jobs except for fast food, and the people who live there can't afford cars to commute to a job in another area, and they lack the education to get those jobs anyway. Homelessness, alcoholism, drug addiction, drug violence, and mental illness are rampant. People can't afford even basic health care. And the Baltimore police and prison system is completely fucked up.
If you grow up in poverty, likely in a broken home, almost certainly surrounded by addiction and violence, with no opportunity to get even a decent grade-school education, and no opportunity to get a job that pays anywhere near a living wage, and with even the cops against you...well, no one chooses to live among this. (Zoom in, and note the way the map markers cluster.) There are surveillance cameras (if you see a flashing blue light on a pole, keep driving); police helicopters fly down the alleys with searchlights at night; there are entire blocks that are boarded up. Trust me—it's nothing anyone would choose for themselves.
(On a lighter, but still disturbing note, I give you one of Baltimore's more curious ghetto traditions: roving gangs of dirt bikers.)
posted by greenie2600 at 9:32 AM on September 7, 2008
I give you one of Baltimore's more curious ghetto traditions
The dirt bikers are amazingly daring. Just being on one is enough to have you arrested, as they're illegal to operate in the city, but I've seen these guys weaving through traffic, cutting onto sidewalks to avoid redlights, even saw one kid being pursued by four squad cars as he rode casually up I-83.
For sheer absurdity, I'd go with the tradition of firing your gun in the air on New Year's Eve. If you live downtown, as I did for many years, the sound of gunfire on and around midnight on New Year's at times overwhelms the fireworks. Cops park under overpasses to avoid the falling bullets. More effective than the three-line mentions of homocides in the Metro section, New Year's Eve in Baltimore reminds everyone within earshot of just how many guns there are in the city. Especially when you consider that only a fraction of those carrying actually fire their gun in the air to ring in the new year.
Still, the solution has been, mayor after mayor (although O' Malley especially stands out), to engage in the occasional paddywagon sweep, while pouring more and more money into the Inner Harbor and downtown - the reasoning being, if we invest in attracting tourists and conventioners, the payback will be huge, and then we can fix all those problems in Southwest. Only problem is, city hall has been flogging this strategy since Willy Don Schaeffer built the National Aquarium nearly 30 years ago, and Southwest? It's still a ghetto. All planning is done around it, not in it. There are no jobs going in. The system is broken.
But as Simon points out, it's a lot easier to cook the books with dubious mass arrests than it is to actually invest in the communities that need help the most.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:32 AM on September 7, 2008
The dirt bikers are amazingly daring. Just being on one is enough to have you arrested, as they're illegal to operate in the city, but I've seen these guys weaving through traffic, cutting onto sidewalks to avoid redlights, even saw one kid being pursued by four squad cars as he rode casually up I-83.
For sheer absurdity, I'd go with the tradition of firing your gun in the air on New Year's Eve. If you live downtown, as I did for many years, the sound of gunfire on and around midnight on New Year's at times overwhelms the fireworks. Cops park under overpasses to avoid the falling bullets. More effective than the three-line mentions of homocides in the Metro section, New Year's Eve in Baltimore reminds everyone within earshot of just how many guns there are in the city. Especially when you consider that only a fraction of those carrying actually fire their gun in the air to ring in the new year.
Still, the solution has been, mayor after mayor (although O' Malley especially stands out), to engage in the occasional paddywagon sweep, while pouring more and more money into the Inner Harbor and downtown - the reasoning being, if we invest in attracting tourists and conventioners, the payback will be huge, and then we can fix all those problems in Southwest. Only problem is, city hall has been flogging this strategy since Willy Don Schaeffer built the National Aquarium nearly 30 years ago, and Southwest? It's still a ghetto. All planning is done around it, not in it. There are no jobs going in. The system is broken.
But as Simon points out, it's a lot easier to cook the books with dubious mass arrests than it is to actually invest in the communities that need help the most.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:32 AM on September 7, 2008
Faze: The "they" I refer to in my initial, and for some reason controversial post...
Yeh. "for some reason controversial." Yeah.
It's spelled d-i-s-i-n-g-e-n-u-o-u-s.
posted by lodurr at 11:35 AM on September 7, 2008
Yeh. "for some reason controversial." Yeah.
It's spelled d-i-s-i-n-g-e-n-u-o-u-s.
posted by lodurr at 11:35 AM on September 7, 2008
Hey Simon! Generation Kill sucked balls! What the shit man!
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:04 PM on September 7, 2008
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:04 PM on September 7, 2008
Have we really been reduced to making social commentary by referencing TV shows?
Oh no! People are using references to fiction to discuss and analyse social issues! The end is nigh! Such a thing has never happened before!
posted by rodgerd at 10:06 PM on September 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh no! People are using references to fiction to discuss and analyse social issues! The end is nigh! Such a thing has never happened before!
posted by rodgerd at 10:06 PM on September 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
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On the content of the thing, yeah, it's heartbreaking. I wish I wasn't so tired of being angry. I wish I wasn't so tired of being sad.
posted by Xoebe at 3:01 PM on September 6, 2008