And then there were ten
September 25, 2008 8:06 PM   Subscribe

 
"I also reject the argument that [the alleged ringleader] was a hapless fanatic who posed no risk."

Look no further than the past 8 years in America if you want to see the kind of havoc that hapless fanatics can wreak.
posted by philip-random at 8:10 PM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


Canada manages to successfully prosecute a terrorist. This actually is news.

Also: Mubin Shaikh. Weirdest. InformantInACandianMuslimTerrorCell. Ever.
posted by Dasein at 8:11 PM on September 25, 2008


And regarding removing the Prime Minister's head. That part always endeared me to these guys.
posted by philip-random at 8:12 PM on September 25, 2008


P-R, you seem to be missing the point a little bit.
posted by raider at 8:34 PM on September 25, 2008


Planning and working toward ultimate goals that appear unattainable or even unrealistic does not militate against a finding that this was a terrorist group

See: any Bond villain, ever, for rough working proof.
posted by mandal at 8:39 PM on September 25, 2008


Note to self - for trip to Niagara Falls, shave beard and do not pack schematics for sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads
posted by longsleeves at 8:49 PM on September 25, 2008


This would never happen in America.

You can't get convicted with a trial.

(and I'm sure they'd just send him to G'itmo and torture him until he coughed up something realistic, and then hold him indefinitely, since they wouldn't be able to even organize a military commission kangaroo court)
posted by delmoi at 9:00 PM on September 25, 2008


"faces a 10 year sentence". the cynic in me really wants to say "so he'll carry out the attack in 2018?".
posted by spish at 9:05 PM on September 25, 2008


Spish, obviously you're not Canadian.


2011
posted by raider at 9:23 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Check out the original MeFi thread when they were first arrested. Especially eriko's brilliant work discovering the beginer electronics kit they were using as a cell phone trigger (with a tiny little bit of proding by your's truly :P). 'Goals appearing to be unatainable' is a massive understatement! That doesn't mean I question the conviction, I haven't been following the details since the first few days.. In fact, a catch up session is long over due, I think.
posted by Chuckles at 9:36 PM on September 25, 2008


Raider : Probably 2014-2015 but who knows

I'm glad we canadians decided to investigate our terror suspects instead of just toturing them.
posted by Sargas at 9:37 PM on September 25, 2008


"In terms of the actual terrorism offence, the judge says that the young man did not actually have to be involved in a specific plan … but that he just had to know that this was their intention generally,"

Holy Crap.
posted by Balisong at 9:42 PM on September 25, 2008


I'd like to thank this article for forcing me to learn the term "militate against", which I was sure was some kind of typo.
posted by rokusan at 9:56 PM on September 25, 2008


Also seconding Balisong's "Holy Crap". Wow.
posted by rokusan at 9:56 PM on September 25, 2008


"In terms of the actual terrorism offence, the judge says that the young man did not actually have to be involved in a specific plan … but that he just had to know that this was their intention generally,"

Holy Crap.


I'm curious at the shock here. Why should it be a shock that a relatively civil society would want to punish someone who was aware of a terror attack, and yet did nothing to alert his neighbors? If this isn't criminal, what is?
posted by philip-random at 10:14 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Because I hear lots of crazy crap spewing out of my friends mouths, but don't turn them in to the police for it, like a good citizen.
posted by Balisong at 10:17 PM on September 25, 2008


I don't know the full details of the law that led to this man's guilty finding, but I seriously question how long this law will stay on the books without some legislative revision (the election is a good thing!) or constitution challenge.

Oh, if you yanks need to whine about your country, do it elsewhere, there's plenty of threads here for that. Polluting this thread does no good and it just shows how annoying you folks can be.
posted by phyrewerx at 10:17 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I might even say something myself.

But, like John Ashcroft said, everyone will have their day in court.
posted by Balisong at 10:18 PM on September 25, 2008


takes Yankee whning mouth elsewhere.
posted by Balisong at 10:20 PM on September 25, 2008


I'm curious at the shock here. Why should it be a shock that a relatively civil society would want to punish someone who was aware of a terror attack, and yet did nothing to alert his neighbors? If this isn't criminal, what is?

I know just about dick of canadian law but in the US failure to act to prevent a crime isn't prosecutable unless you have a duty to prevent it. Or it used to be, I'm sure now you'll be swept away to a foreign prison and tortured if you knew about something like this.
posted by puke & cry at 10:27 PM on September 25, 2008


That first part should be italicized, sorry.
posted by puke & cry at 10:29 PM on September 25, 2008


At least one member of a group of terror suspects plotted to storm Canada's parliament and behead officials, including the prime minister

Still dealing with blowback from the hockey strike, eh?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:50 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I think the reason some of us are a bit shocked is that this person has been convicted (under modified rules of evidence) for having a (vague?) idea that some of his friends were planning (however speculatively/unrealistically) a terrorist act (although in fact the planning may have been done by a government mole).

I used to be pleased that our government had built a solid case against these guys using normal police procedures and tried them in a civilian court -- justice, even for terrorists. Now I'm wondering if I was too credulous.



This item below, from the Wikipedia, article on the Toronto 18, made me feel quite a bit better about my country.

All charges against 2 more youth were stayed on 31 July 2007 with the conditions imposed under a Peace Bond, the first to be implemented under a terrorism related peace bond, which states that they must not have any communication with their co-accused, they must report to police twice a month, and must seek counseling from their respective Imams.

They're treating them like a couple of high school kids, teenagers who started hanging out with gang members and who needed to be scared straight. In the opinion of the judge that's all they are, and I'm glad to see that the judge is making decisions based on the facts rather than in an unthinking frenzy. Yes, let's see more of that please.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:47 PM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


As for the "Holy Crap" reactions: The judge was referring to the defence's argument that the accused wasn't directly involved by reminding them that, under the law, he wouldn't have to be directly involved to be found guilty. Being peripherally involved with knowledge of the planned crime is enough to convict.
This isn't the same as overhearing your neighbours and not ratting them out.
posted by rocket88 at 8:47 AM on September 26, 2008


"Mubin Shaikh"? As in "Move and Shake"? And he's an underground informant? Good grief!

I didn't sign up to be in this Mike Myers movie.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:56 PM on September 26, 2008


“Why should it be a shock that a relatively civil society would want to punish someone who was aware of a terror attack, and yet did nothing to alert his neighbors? If this isn't criminal, what is?”

I am going to blow up the moon. To this end I will go camping wearing astronaut clothing and a small caliber sidearm and I will order an Atlas V rocket from NASA and 40 tons of red flagged precursor agents (they’ll never investigate, trust me).
Also, praise Allah.
If you do not alert the authorities of this malicious terrorist intent of mine, you are a criminal.

This reminds me of the idiots, back in June of 06, in Florida who planned to ‘blow up the Sears Tower’ with residue from their tennis shoes or onions and potato peels or something.

I have to go with justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow - this conviction seems like the same kind of thought crime.
The “scared straight” treatment is far more logical. Bunch of kids trying to be hardcases.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:33 PM on September 26, 2008


and must seek counseling from their respective Imams

That is the most Canadian element of all, I think. It's lovely.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:12 PM on September 27, 2008


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