Make-Believe Maverick
October 4, 2008 2:00 PM Subscribe
Make-Believe Maverick. "A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty."
As the campagining goes on, forever it seems, McCain over and over reveals his inability to believe in anything and keeps changing his positions and his words and his mind. Now we had, a short while ago, a big story on The NY Times about the McCain gambling addiction> Easy enough to say well he has loads of money so who cares. But a gambler at the nuke trigger etc is in fact a serious worry. Then there is this:
http://therealmccain.com/doctors/?utm_source=rgemail
Three days ago there was a full-page ad, signed by 1500 medical doctors who said McCain's cancer is a serious form, coming back a few times, and that his medicaol records have been but very partially revealed and that the nation is owed full discloseder about a guy who is (1) 72, (2) recurring bouts of cancer, (3) perhaps PTSD since he exhibits rage and outbursts often, (4) senility? On number 4: we do not know but at 72, odd things happens, as a former prewident from the same party shows us.
posted by Postroad at 2:10 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
http://therealmccain.com/doctors/?utm_source=rgemail
Three days ago there was a full-page ad, signed by 1500 medical doctors who said McCain's cancer is a serious form, coming back a few times, and that his medicaol records have been but very partially revealed and that the nation is owed full discloseder about a guy who is (1) 72, (2) recurring bouts of cancer, (3) perhaps PTSD since he exhibits rage and outbursts often, (4) senility? On number 4: we do not know but at 72, odd things happens, as a former prewident from the same party shows us.
posted by Postroad at 2:10 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Stopped reading when "meet" was misspelled "meat".
posted by tmcw at 2:11 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by tmcw at 2:11 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
After a certain age, a Maverick just becomes a Curmudgeon. McCain is well past that age.
posted by wendell at 2:14 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by wendell at 2:14 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Who is the grey-haired stranger there?
A Maverick is McCain.
Straight Talk Express to who knows where,
Luck is his companion,
Politics is his game.
Smooth as a lobbiest on the make.
A Maverick is McCain.
Wild as a senator on the take,
Damming up a canyon,
He won't take the blame.
Coral reefs go to hell,
Let's drill an offshore well.
Greed is the lady that he loves the best.
Gitmo to Washington
Let's torture just for fun
Maverick is a legend of the west.
posted by Floydd at 2:18 PM on October 4, 2008
A Maverick is McCain.
Straight Talk Express to who knows where,
Luck is his companion,
Politics is his game.
Smooth as a lobbiest on the make.
A Maverick is McCain.
Wild as a senator on the take,
Damming up a canyon,
He won't take the blame.
Coral reefs go to hell,
Let's drill an offshore well.
Greed is the lady that he loves the best.
Gitmo to Washington
Let's torture just for fun
Maverick is a legend of the west.
posted by Floydd at 2:18 PM on October 4, 2008
In its broad strokes, McCain's life story is oddly similar to that of the current occupant of the White House. John Sidney McCain III and George Walker Bush both represent the third generation of American dynasties. Both were born into positions of privilege against which they rebelled into mediocrity. Both developed an uncanny social intelligence that allowed them to skate by with a minimum of mental exertion. Both struggled with booze and loutish behavior. At each step, with the aid of their fathers' powerful friends, both failed upward. And both shed their skins as Episcopalian members of the Washington elite to build political careers as self-styled, ranch-inhabiting Westerners who pray to Jesus in their wives' evangelical churches.Oh, snap!
In one vital respect, however, the comparison is deeply unfair to the current president: George W. Bush was a much better pilot.
posted by scody at 2:20 PM on October 4, 2008 [22 favorites]
Is anyone aware of the details of the McCain-Obama town hall debate? I've heard it said that town halls play to McCain's strengths, partly because he's more comfortable in that environment, and partly because it's possible for the campaign or for sympathetic groups (hello, Limbaugh) to stack the audience with sycophants and plants to tilt the field in his favor. The GOP was able to change the rules of the VP debate, so what about this next one? What are the rules about who gets to attend, who gets to ask questions, etc?
posted by Rhaomi at 2:27 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by Rhaomi at 2:27 PM on October 4, 2008
Yeah, if even 1/4 of these stories are true, the guy is a vicious, dangerous prick.
And just this morning I read that the GOP says "...that to win in November they must shift the conversation back to questions about the Democrat's judgment, honesty and personal associations."
Are they SURE they want to open up that bag?
McNasty there wrecked THREE PLANES, CHEATED ON HIS WIFE MANY TIMES, and was in the KEATING FIVE.
posted by chronkite at 2:36 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
And just this morning I read that the GOP says "...that to win in November they must shift the conversation back to questions about the Democrat's judgment, honesty and personal associations."
Are they SURE they want to open up that bag?
McNasty there wrecked THREE PLANES, CHEATED ON HIS WIFE MANY TIMES, and was in the KEATING FIVE.
posted by chronkite at 2:36 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
"A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbingglorious record of recklessness and dishonestyPOWicity."
posted by DU at 2:39 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 2:39 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
there wrecked THREE PLANES
this is a pretty stupid criticism of the man.
posted by troy at 2:40 PM on October 4, 2008
this is a pretty stupid criticism of the man.
posted by troy at 2:40 PM on October 4, 2008
After all, that's how he won that war.
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
there wrecked THREE PLANES
this is a pretty stupid criticism of the man.
When taken in place, as an observation of a man who got to the top through pure nepotism (the article states that naval aviators' careers are typically over after one crash, let alone two or three), it's a valid road to go down.
posted by barnacles at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2008 [8 favorites]
this is a pretty stupid criticism of the man.
When taken in place, as an observation of a man who got to the top through pure nepotism (the article states that naval aviators' careers are typically over after one crash, let alone two or three), it's a valid road to go down.
posted by barnacles at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2008 [8 favorites]
this is a pretty stupid criticism of the man.
Not at all. As the article makes clear, most pilots get grounded after their first wreck. His family connections shielded him from failure.
posted by RussHy at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2008
Not at all. As the article makes clear, most pilots get grounded after their first wreck. His family connections shielded him from failure.
posted by RussHy at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2008
troy,
The article suggests that these wrecks were due to his poor judgment, and also that anyone other than the son of an Admiral would have been stripped of their wings after the first one.
Ixnay on the upidstay.
posted by chronkite at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2008
The article suggests that these wrecks were due to his poor judgment, and also that anyone other than the son of an Admiral would have been stripped of their wings after the first one.
Ixnay on the upidstay.
posted by chronkite at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2008
John McCain is in fact quite comparable to a Maverick.
A 1973 Ford Maverick, with three flat tires, a broken headlight, a transmission stuck in second gear and a six-cylinder engine that's badly in need of an overhaul.
posted by An Infinity Of Monkeys at 2:53 PM on October 4, 2008 [15 favorites]
A 1973 Ford Maverick, with three flat tires, a broken headlight, a transmission stuck in second gear and a six-cylinder engine that's badly in need of an overhaul.
posted by An Infinity Of Monkeys at 2:53 PM on October 4, 2008 [15 favorites]
chronkite writes "wrecked THREE PLANES, "
He in fact lost five planes, four not due to enemy action: flying too low while landing, he crashed into Corpus Christi Bay; then he flew into power lines in Spain; then he had a flame-out returning from the Army-Navy football game; then an errant missile from another US plane hit him while he was waiting to take from an aircraft carrier, the resultant damage from which killed 134 sailors, destroyed 20 planes and nearly sank the ship. Then he was shot down in combat.
posted by orthogonality at 2:54 PM on October 4, 2008 [10 favorites]
He in fact lost five planes, four not due to enemy action: flying too low while landing, he crashed into Corpus Christi Bay; then he flew into power lines in Spain; then he had a flame-out returning from the Army-Navy football game; then an errant missile from another US plane hit him while he was waiting to take from an aircraft carrier, the resultant damage from which killed 134 sailors, destroyed 20 planes and nearly sank the ship. Then he was shot down in combat.
posted by orthogonality at 2:54 PM on October 4, 2008 [10 favorites]
Who among us hasn't lost as many planes?
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2008 [14 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2008 [14 favorites]
Just two things. One, I was surprised to see an Obama ad on the economy at the top of the Drudge Report just a bit ago; wow, and good for him. Later views showed an ad for "An American Carol," which seems more characteristic (and last I checked, an ad for "W." Huh).
Secondly, David Letterman just doesn't relent. Here's the appearance of Brian Williams on the show, via the Huffington Post.
posted by Morrigan at 2:59 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Secondly, David Letterman just doesn't relent. Here's the appearance of Brian Williams on the show, via the Huffington Post.
posted by Morrigan at 2:59 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
chronkite: ""...that to win in November they must shift the conversation back to questions about the Democrat's judgment, honesty and personal associations."
Are they SURE they want to open up that bag?
McNasty there wrecked THREE PLANES, CHEATED ON HIS WIFE MANY TIMES, and was in the KEATING FIVE."
Judgment... Experience.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:00 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Are they SURE they want to open up that bag?
McNasty there wrecked THREE PLANES, CHEATED ON HIS WIFE MANY TIMES, and was in the KEATING FIVE."
Judgment... Experience.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:00 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
He in fact lost five planes, four not due to enemy action.
MAVERICK
posted by scody at 3:01 PM on October 4, 2008
MAVERICK
posted by scody at 3:01 PM on October 4, 2008
Don't treat John McCain like some inhuman asshole! He's as human as you and I! If you prick him, does he not crash a plane?
posted by jamstigator at 3:02 PM on October 4, 2008 [27 favorites]
posted by jamstigator at 3:02 PM on October 4, 2008 [27 favorites]
A retired military man I know, a man who voted for Bush twice, is voting for Obama this election. Maybe this is why:
"Under the code, POWs are bound to give only their name, rank, date of birth and service number — and to make no "statements disloyal to my country."
Soon after McCain hit the ground in Hanoi, the code went out the window. "I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital," he later admitted pleading with his captors. McCain now insists the offer was a bluff, designed to fool the enemy into giving him medical treatment. In fact, his wounds were attended to only after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a Navy admiral. What has never been disclosed is the manner in which they found out: McCain told them. According to Dramesi, one of the few POWs who remained silent under years of torture, McCain tried to justify his behavior while they were still prisoners. "I had to tell them," he insisted to Dramesi, "or I would have died in bed."
Dramesi says he has no desire to dishonor McCain's service, but he believes that celebrating the downed pilot's behavior as heroic — "he wasn't exceptional one way or the other" — has a corrosive effect on military discipline. "This business of my country before my life?" Dramesi says. "Well, he had that opportunity and failed miserably. If it really were country first, John McCain would probably be walking around without one or two arms or legs — or he'd be dead."
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 3:05 PM on October 4, 2008 [14 favorites]
"Under the code, POWs are bound to give only their name, rank, date of birth and service number — and to make no "statements disloyal to my country."
Soon after McCain hit the ground in Hanoi, the code went out the window. "I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital," he later admitted pleading with his captors. McCain now insists the offer was a bluff, designed to fool the enemy into giving him medical treatment. In fact, his wounds were attended to only after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a Navy admiral. What has never been disclosed is the manner in which they found out: McCain told them. According to Dramesi, one of the few POWs who remained silent under years of torture, McCain tried to justify his behavior while they were still prisoners. "I had to tell them," he insisted to Dramesi, "or I would have died in bed."
Dramesi says he has no desire to dishonor McCain's service, but he believes that celebrating the downed pilot's behavior as heroic — "he wasn't exceptional one way or the other" — has a corrosive effect on military discipline. "This business of my country before my life?" Dramesi says. "Well, he had that opportunity and failed miserably. If it really were country first, John McCain would probably be walking around without one or two arms or legs — or he'd be dead."
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 3:05 PM on October 4, 2008 [14 favorites]
To be fair, planes weren't even invented until he was about 692 and the ability to fly declines sharply at age 600.
posted by DU at 3:06 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 3:06 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
There is this consolation about the forthcoming debate: a prof, specialist in presidential politics, said this morning on tv that at this point the debates don't really matter unless something from Obama is so outrageous as to make a difference.
S. Pinker (MIT linguist) noted today in the NY Times that there is a difference between the debate format and the interview, and that in a debate, there is little chance for digging deeper and deeper into responses. Then too it is now revealed that in the VP debate, the camera focused on the person speaking and was not on the person listening. However, in a split screen presentation up today, Palin was clearly scanning a bundle of notes as Bindin spoke so she could get the talking points to use as retorts. When not addressed to that which was in her pike of notes, she wandered and babbled to no purpose. Can not do this in an interview.
McCain has nothing to lose at this point, and thus his gambling hobby will have him go for broke and bet the house in his tirades. But Obama is already noted by many as a good choice because of his ability to stay calm and cool under pressure.
posted by Postroad at 3:08 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
S. Pinker (MIT linguist) noted today in the NY Times that there is a difference between the debate format and the interview, and that in a debate, there is little chance for digging deeper and deeper into responses. Then too it is now revealed that in the VP debate, the camera focused on the person speaking and was not on the person listening. However, in a split screen presentation up today, Palin was clearly scanning a bundle of notes as Bindin spoke so she could get the talking points to use as retorts. When not addressed to that which was in her pike of notes, she wandered and babbled to no purpose. Can not do this in an interview.
McCain has nothing to lose at this point, and thus his gambling hobby will have him go for broke and bet the house in his tirades. But Obama is already noted by many as a good choice because of his ability to stay calm and cool under pressure.
posted by Postroad at 3:08 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I was tired of this when it happened yesterday.
posted by MarshallPoe at 3:08 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by MarshallPoe at 3:08 PM on October 4, 2008
I read this last night and was thinking of posting it here, but I figured it would turn up sooner or later. Personally, I don't think that this is the best of the web but I may be in the minority here.
posted by ob at 3:15 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by ob at 3:15 PM on October 4, 2008
I thought saying "John McCain is a maverick" three times made it true?
posted by mordacil at 3:17 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by mordacil at 3:17 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
I thought saying "John McCain is a maverick" three times made it true?
If you say it three times in the dark in fromt of a mirror then vast, leathery wings appear in the mirror and a demon snatches your soul. After that ytou can only vote Republican.
posted by RussHy at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
If you say it three times in the dark in fromt of a mirror then vast, leathery wings appear in the mirror and a demon snatches your soul. After that ytou can only vote Republican.
posted by RussHy at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
McCain Plans Fiercer Strategy Against Obama
Alternate headline: When the going gets tough, the tough go negative.
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2008
Alternate headline: When the going gets tough, the tough go negative.
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2008
[Low, firm, yet reassuring masculine voice:] When hurricanes threatened New Orleans, where was Barack Obama?
[Slow-mo footage of Obama among confetti at convention]
[voice:] He was... safe and far away, giving speeches.
[Slow pans of bleak, dismal b/w photos of flood victims]
[voice:] He was not on the scene.
[Slow pans of b/w photos of grimy, determined rescuers]
[voice:] He was not at the front lines.
[Slow pans of flooded neighborhoods]
[voice:] He was nowhere to be found...
[Musical sting. Last photo fades slowly to black]
[voice:] ...in New Orleans.
[Color video of McCain briskly chatting to emergency workers]
[voice, speaking slightly faster, brighter intonation:] Only John McCain got there early.
[Color video of McCain cold-cocking a mother carrying her child]
[voice:] John McCain arrived BEFORE the hurricane, to make sure shit was fucked up right.
[Color video of McCain trotting towards a levee with an armful of explosives]
[voice:] John McCain will not sit idly by to watch disaster threaten. John McCain will use his experience in wartime to ensure it happens.
[Heroic profile of McCain looking across a flooded landscape, trees and roofs appearing above the surface]
[voice:] Vote John McCain on November 5th.
[Video of McCain standing outside a FEMA trailer, gun in one hand and axe in the other.]
[McCain:] I'm John McCain, and I approve this message.
posted by ardgedee at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
[Slow-mo footage of Obama among confetti at convention]
[voice:] He was... safe and far away, giving speeches.
[Slow pans of bleak, dismal b/w photos of flood victims]
[voice:] He was not on the scene.
[Slow pans of b/w photos of grimy, determined rescuers]
[voice:] He was not at the front lines.
[Slow pans of flooded neighborhoods]
[voice:] He was nowhere to be found...
[Musical sting. Last photo fades slowly to black]
[voice:] ...in New Orleans.
[Color video of McCain briskly chatting to emergency workers]
[voice, speaking slightly faster, brighter intonation:] Only John McCain got there early.
[Color video of McCain cold-cocking a mother carrying her child]
[voice:] John McCain arrived BEFORE the hurricane, to make sure shit was fucked up right.
[Color video of McCain trotting towards a levee with an armful of explosives]
[voice:] John McCain will not sit idly by to watch disaster threaten. John McCain will use his experience in wartime to ensure it happens.
[Heroic profile of McCain looking across a flooded landscape, trees and roofs appearing above the surface]
[voice:] Vote John McCain on November 5th.
[Video of McCain standing outside a FEMA trailer, gun in one hand and axe in the other.]
[McCain:] I'm John McCain, and I approve this message.
posted by ardgedee at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
The reign of McCain fails mainly because of the plane(s)
posted by hal9k at 3:25 PM on October 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by hal9k at 3:25 PM on October 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
PreachingToTheChoirFilter.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:28 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:28 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wow, an article in Rolling Stone magazine attacking someone for pretending to be anti-establishment.
Somebody page Alanis Morrisette.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:29 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Somebody page Alanis Morrisette.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:29 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you say it three times in the dark in fromt of a mirror then vast, leathery wings appear in the mirror and a demon snatches your soul. After that ytou can only vote Republican.
Knew I was close. Thanks for the assist.
posted by mordacil at 3:30 PM on October 4, 2008
Knew I was close. Thanks for the assist.
posted by mordacil at 3:30 PM on October 4, 2008
But to add something new, I hasten to mention that "maverick" is an anagram of "vice mark".
Good point. Also, JOHN MCCAIN + SARAH PALIN = CRASH CHAMP IN ANAL JOIN.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:40 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Obama and ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths
Palin: Obama Is ‘Palling Around With Terrorists’
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on October 4, 2008
Palin: Obama Is ‘Palling Around With Terrorists’
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on October 4, 2008
The interesting thing about the timing of all this is that is coincides with the McCain campaign's plan of stepping up attacks. There's so much shit in McCain and Palin's closets, that, if the game were to be played like this, they could be opening up the wrong box.
posted by inigo2 at 3:44 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by inigo2 at 3:44 PM on October 4, 2008
JOHN MCCAIN + SARAH PALIN = CRASH CHAMP IN ANAL JOIN.
*shudders, scrubs self with steel wool and borax*
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 3:47 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
*shudders, scrubs self with steel wool and borax*
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 3:47 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Team of Mavericks = Revoke Facts, Maim
posted by lukemeister at 3:52 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by lukemeister at 3:52 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
From homunculus' second link:
“If we can be that beacon of light and hope for others who seek freedom and democracy and can live in a country that would allow intolerance in the equal rights that again our military men and women fight for and die for for all of us. "
She's not even trying to make sense with her buzz words.
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:55 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
“If we can be that beacon of light and hope for others who seek freedom and democracy and can live in a country that would allow intolerance in the equal rights that again our military men and women fight for and die for for all of us. "
She's not even trying to make sense with her buzz words.
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:55 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I never thought I'd say this, but George W. Bush may not be the worst president the U.S. will have in my lifetime.
posted by orange swan at 3:58 PM on October 4, 2008 [10 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 3:58 PM on October 4, 2008 [10 favorites]
And as far as her purposely misconstruing what was in the NYT article, at the risk of sounding like an elitist, I have to ask just how many people who turned out at that airport hangar in Englewood Colorado actually read the NYT article to realize that she was less than truthful about what it said.
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:59 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:59 PM on October 4, 2008
Just goes to show the subtext of saying you're a "maverick", or "tenacious", or "a fighter". It's a nice, positive way to spin the fact that you're a spoiled, bullying asshole.
posted by zardoz at 4:01 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 4:01 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm happy to see that the GOP is continuing its affirmative action campaign for third-rate, well-connected party boys born with silver chips on their shoulders who wrap themselves in bloody flags. Someone's got to look out for these angry sons of incommunicative fathers.
posted by digaman at 4:09 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by digaman at 4:09 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
"In September 2002, McCain assured Americans that the war would be "fairly easy" with an "overwhelming victory in a very short period of time." On the eve of the invasion, Hardball host Chris Matthews asked McCain, "Are you one of those who holds up an optimistic view of the postwar scene? Do you believe that the people of Iraq, or at least a large number of them, will treat us as liberators?"
McCain was emphatic: "Absolutely. Absolutely."
Today, however, McCain insists that he predicted a protracted struggle from the outset. "The American people were led to believe this could be some kind of day at the beach," he said in August 2006, "which many of us fully understood from the beginning would be a very, very difficult undertaking."
I believe Henry Rollins said it best: YOU'RE A LIAR!
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 4:15 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
McCain was emphatic: "Absolutely. Absolutely."
Today, however, McCain insists that he predicted a protracted struggle from the outset. "The American people were led to believe this could be some kind of day at the beach," he said in August 2006, "which many of us fully understood from the beginning would be a very, very difficult undertaking."
I believe Henry Rollins said it best: YOU'RE A LIAR!
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 4:15 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Whenever I hear McCain call himself a maverick I immediately think of the self-proclaimed "wild and crazy guys" from early SNL. It makes me disappointed that Lieberman didn't get picked as his running mate, because there could be no more fun with dissonance than seeing those two old flappy skinned lounge lizards telling each other how mavericky they are.
posted by TimTypeZed at 4:18 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by TimTypeZed at 4:18 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
McCain's life story is oddly similar to that of the current occupant of the White House
I was struck by the same thing reading A Turbulent Youth Under a Strong Father's Shadow. We've already had a hotheaded incurious flyboy who was got into high office as a legacy and spend his life--and others'--trying to outdo his father.
The Curious Mind of John McCain, another recent profile, which quotes McCain:
Enter public life determined to tell the truth; to put problem-solving ahead of partisanship; to defend the public interest against the special interests; to risk your personal ambitions for the sake of the country and the ideals that make her great. Keep your promise to America, and you will keep your honor.This is the McCain who--I suspect because he knows he's breaking his pledge to "run a respectful campaign based on the issues"--was unable to define the word "honor" in a "pricky" interview with Time in late August.
The McCain Makeover chronicles McCain's evolution from Bush's opponent to heir apparent.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:22 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Question: Biden declared several time during the VP debate that he "loves John [McCain]". How can he? McCain doesn't sound like the kind of person anyone could love. Even the Ron and Nancy Reagan despised him.
posted by orange swan at 4:23 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by orange swan at 4:23 PM on October 4, 2008
The reign of McCain fails mainly because of the plane(s)
The planes of McCain fall mainly with his hands at the reins.
posted by never used baby shoes at 4:25 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
The planes of McCain fall mainly with his hands at the reins.
posted by never used baby shoes at 4:25 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Obama '12?
posted by blue_beetle at 4:32 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by blue_beetle at 4:32 PM on October 4, 2008
Question: Biden declared several time during the VP debate that he "loves John [McCain]". How can he? McCain doesn't sound like the kind of person anyone could love. Even the Ron and Nancy Reagan despised him.
How can Ruth Bader Ginsburg be best friends with Antonin Scalia? It's mindblowing at first glance because their politics are so different, but then you realize, well... they're both Justices of The Supreme Court. They both love to debate. They both love Law.
I bet Biden's affection for McCain is something like that.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 4:35 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
How can Ruth Bader Ginsburg be best friends with Antonin Scalia? It's mindblowing at first glance because their politics are so different, but then you realize, well... they're both Justices of The Supreme Court. They both love to debate. They both love Law.
I bet Biden's affection for McCain is something like that.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 4:35 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
McCain on the Forrestal:
Although he would soon regale The New York Times with tales of the heroism of the brave enlisted men who "stayed to help the pilots fight the fire," McCain took no part in dousing the flames himself. After going belowdecks and briefly helping sailors who were frantically trying to unload bombs from an elevator to the flight deck, McCain retreated to the safety of the "ready room," where off-duty pilots spent their noncombat hours talking trash and playing poker. There, McCain watched the conflagration unfold on the room's closed-circuit television — bearing distant witness to the valiant self-sacrifice of others who died trying to save the ship, pushing jets into the sea to keep their bombs from exploding on deck.posted by kirkaracha at 4:43 PM on October 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
As the ship burned, McCain took a moment to mourn his misfortune; his combat career appeared to be going up in smoke. "This distressed me considerably," he recalls in Faith of My Fathers. "I feared my ambitions were among the casualties in the calamity that had claimed the Forrestal."
The fire blazed late into the night. The following morning, while oxygen-masked rescue workers toiled to recover bodies from the lower decks, McCain was making fast friends with R.W. "Johnny" Apple of The New York Times, who had arrived by helicopter to cover the deadliest Naval calamity since the Second World War. The son of admiralty surviving a near-death experience certainly made for good copy, and McCain colorfully recounted how he had saved his skin. But when Apple and other reporters left the ship, the story took an even stranger turn: McCain left with them. As the heroic crew of the Forrestal mourned its fallen brothers and the broken ship limped toward the Philippines for repairs, McCain zipped off to Saigon for what he recalls as "some welcome R&R."
You wanna know what's worse? John McCain doesn't even know how many planes he crashed!
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:45 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:45 PM on October 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
(try the filet mignon)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:46 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:46 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
How about the John McCain Wikipedia entry?
Following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather, McCain entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. There, he was a friend and informal leader for many of his classmates,[10] and sometimes stood up for people who were being bullied.[5] He also became a lightweight boxer.[11] McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel, he did not always obey the rules, and that contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899) despite a strong intelligence.[10][12] He did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with, such as mathematics.[5][13] McCain graduated in 1958.[10]
Oh my the GOP must have vetted that one themselves. What a bunch of claptrap.
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather, McCain entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. There, he was a friend and informal leader for many of his classmates,[10] and sometimes stood up for people who were being bullied.[5] He also became a lightweight boxer.[11] McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel, he did not always obey the rules, and that contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899) despite a strong intelligence.[10][12] He did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with, such as mathematics.[5][13] McCain graduated in 1958.[10]
Oh my the GOP must have vetted that one themselves. What a bunch of claptrap.
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just two things. One, I was surprised to see an Obama ad on the economy at the top of the Drudge Report just a bit ago; wow, and good for him. Later views showed an ad for "An American Carol," which seems more characteristic (and last I checked, an ad for "W." Huh).
For better or worse, Drudge is read by all the politicians and talking heads, even though so little of it is original content, and at best he's just a gossip. But he's a very well-positioned gossip. Similarly, a lot of Limbaugh's audience aren't really fans, at least in the sense that they don't agree with his political views.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:04 PM on October 4, 2008
For better or worse, Drudge is read by all the politicians and talking heads, even though so little of it is original content, and at best he's just a gossip. But he's a very well-positioned gossip. Similarly, a lot of Limbaugh's audience aren't really fans, at least in the sense that they don't agree with his political views.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:04 PM on October 4, 2008
In 1993, he was the keynote speaker at a fundraiser for a group that sponsored an anti-gay-rights ballot initiative in Oregon.
As people familiar with the OCA can easily imagine, that story´s even worse than it sounds.
posted by concrete at 5:12 PM on October 4, 2008
As people familiar with the OCA can easily imagine, that story´s even worse than it sounds.
posted by concrete at 5:12 PM on October 4, 2008
How about the John McCain Wikipedia entry... the GOP must have vetted that one themselves
Or changed it after the fact, like they did with the Palin Wikipedia entry.
posted by twoleftfeet at 5:26 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Or changed it after the fact, like they did with the Palin Wikipedia entry.
posted by twoleftfeet at 5:26 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with, such as mathematics.
Aren't pilots supposed to be good in math?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:30 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Aren't pilots supposed to be good in math?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:30 PM on October 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
But I'll bet he aced Econ 101, right?
posted by leftcoastbob at 5:37 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by leftcoastbob at 5:37 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Everyone realizes how praiseworthy it is for a politician to honor his word and to be straightforward rather than crafty in his dealings; nonetheless, contemporary experience shows that politicians who have achieved great things have been those who have given their word lightly, who have known how to trick men with their cunning, and who, in the end, have overcome those abiding by honest principles.posted by stbalbach at 5:46 PM on October 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
--Machiavelli, "The Politician", 1513
"but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with, such as mathematics.
Aren't pilots supposed to be good in math?"
Of course, but then they're also expected to be good at flying - another of McCain's not-so-strong suits.
posted by An Infinity Of Monkeys at 5:51 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Aren't pilots supposed to be good in math?"
Of course, but then they're also expected to be good at flying - another of McCain's not-so-strong suits.
posted by An Infinity Of Monkeys at 5:51 PM on October 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
His family connections shielded him from failure.
and, as soon as he came back, despite having objectively aided the enemy by breaking the Code of Conduct many times (giving up information, appearing at a propaganda interview with a Cuban journalist, for example), he was awarded thanks to his father's intervention 22 medals. who says that? crazy Kossacks? Michael Moore? No, Republicans.
you know, most people are under the wrong impression re: the 2000 Republican primaries, they think that that the core of the Bush/Rove attack on McCain was the black "bastard child" crap. it wasn't, that was just a small corollary tailor-made for South Carolina's racists. the main thrust of the attack was that McCain was:
keep in mind, nobody hates McCain more than the POW-MIA activists, they say as a Senator he boycotted every effort to identify remaining POWs in Vietnam. They even say the Vietnamese still threaten him with release of embarrassing films and tapes from his days as a prisoner there, hence he's in the Vietnamese pocket because of that.
if Obama gets beaten by McCain, it'll be interesting to consider how, instead, Bush quickly destroyed McCain in 2000.
having taken the high road to defeat might not look that sweet on November 5. you just wait until Palin gets sworn in as VP by Scalia and winks at the TV cameras then you tell me about that. I mean, 13% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim. going on the offensive works.
posted by matteo at 6:09 PM on October 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
and, as soon as he came back, despite having objectively aided the enemy by breaking the Code of Conduct many times (giving up information, appearing at a propaganda interview with a Cuban journalist, for example), he was awarded thanks to his father's intervention 22 medals. who says that? crazy Kossacks? Michael Moore? No, Republicans.
you know, most people are under the wrong impression re: the 2000 Republican primaries, they think that that the core of the Bush/Rove attack on McCain was the black "bastard child" crap. it wasn't, that was just a small corollary tailor-made for South Carolina's racists. the main thrust of the attack was that McCain was:
a) a bad soldiermuch of the narrative from his own days as a POW comes from McCain himself and a Kerry Swift Boater who was also a POW. the story of the cross in the dirt at Christmas is probably fake. what else is? McCain might very well lie about other stuff, and the Swift Boater is a proven liar already (on the Kerry charges)
b) a traitor who traded information -- "songbird", as a press report from '67 called him -- in exchange for medical care unavailable to his fellow prisoners, thus committing treason
c) his experiences as a prisoner made him crazy; it's not "temper", it's PTSD that makes him unfit for the Presidency
keep in mind, nobody hates McCain more than the POW-MIA activists, they say as a Senator he boycotted every effort to identify remaining POWs in Vietnam. They even say the Vietnamese still threaten him with release of embarrassing films and tapes from his days as a prisoner there, hence he's in the Vietnamese pocket because of that.
if Obama gets beaten by McCain, it'll be interesting to consider how, instead, Bush quickly destroyed McCain in 2000.
having taken the high road to defeat might not look that sweet on November 5. you just wait until Palin gets sworn in as VP by Scalia and winks at the TV cameras then you tell me about that. I mean, 13% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim. going on the offensive works.
posted by matteo at 6:09 PM on October 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
America works better with a divided government and McCain is as divided as they come.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:19 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:19 PM on October 4, 2008
having taken the high road to defeat might not look that sweet on November 5. you just wait until Palin gets sworn in as VP by Scalia and winks at the TV cameras then you tell me about that. I mean, 13% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim. going on the offensive works.
"It looks like the deadlier final attack might come not from John McCain, as advertised, but from Barack Obama, with his McCain-will-cost-you-more blitzkrieg. McCain's already on extremely weak footing regarding the economy. By eliminating McCain's one economic trump card, that he is a tax cutter and Obama a tax-hiker, Obama's pounding on those coffin nails."
posted by billysumday at 6:52 PM on October 4, 2008
"It looks like the deadlier final attack might come not from John McCain, as advertised, but from Barack Obama, with his McCain-will-cost-you-more blitzkrieg. McCain's already on extremely weak footing regarding the economy. By eliminating McCain's one economic trump card, that he is a tax cutter and Obama a tax-hiker, Obama's pounding on those coffin nails."
posted by billysumday at 6:52 PM on October 4, 2008
I bet Biden's affection for McCain is something like that.
I bet it's more like this.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:56 PM on October 4, 2008
I bet it's more like this.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:56 PM on October 4, 2008
The Democrats won't Swiftboat McCain.
That's one of many reasons that they should get our votes.
posted by Xoebe at 7:25 PM on October 4, 2008
That's one of many reasons that they should get our votes.
posted by Xoebe at 7:25 PM on October 4, 2008
Ya know, when President Obama is reading over bills next year and years down the line, and he sees some pork headed toward Alaska, I wonder how many milliseconds it's gonna take him to polish up that veto stick and do some reforming. You betcha.
posted by jamstigator at 8:15 PM on October 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by jamstigator at 8:15 PM on October 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
I'd say negotiate with Canada to GIVE them Alaska. But it may be a tough sell: on the plus side, the Oil; on the minus side: the People.
posted by wendell at 8:17 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by wendell at 8:17 PM on October 4, 2008
On behalf of Canadians everywhere, I say "Thanks, but no thanks!"
posted by blue_beetle at 8:24 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by blue_beetle at 8:24 PM on October 4, 2008
We already have lots of oil; we don't need any more fundie wingnuts like Palin thanks. And if you send us Palin, we're sending you Gilles Duceppe.
posted by illiad at 9:45 PM on October 4, 2008
posted by illiad at 9:45 PM on October 4, 2008
McCain Plans Fiercer Strategy Against Obama
Obama to preempt McCain assault:
Branding his opponent as "erratic in a crisis," Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) is preempting plans by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to portray him as having sinister connections to controversial Chicagoans.posted by kirkaracha at 11:09 PM on October 4, 2008
...
Obama-Biden communications director Dan Pfeiffer said about the new ads: "If John McCain thinks he can 'turn the page' on the economic crisis facing American families, he is even more out of touch than we imagined. Now there may be no good answers for John McCain due to his erratic response to the financial crisis, but his desire to avoid discussing the economy is something we will remind voters of everyday for the next month."
McCain's playing checkers and Obama's playing chess.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:17 PM on October 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:17 PM on October 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
Christ, what an asshole™!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:31 AM on October 5, 2008
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:31 AM on October 5, 2008
What part of that are you trademarking... and why? Wherefore art thou, chicken?
posted by ewkpates at 3:55 AM on October 5, 2008
posted by ewkpates at 3:55 AM on October 5, 2008
Christ, what an asshole™!
Is that a bad flying reference from the end of Airplane?
Attendent: Alright now everybody, get in crash positions [The passengers arrange themselves as if they just crashed.]
Kramer : Put down 30 degrees of flap. Striker now listen to me. Remember your breaks and switches, get ready to fly it out ...
Air Traffic Control : He's all over the place, 900 feet, up to 1300 feet ... what an asshole.
posted by wilko at 4:17 AM on October 5, 2008
Is that a bad flying reference from the end of Airplane?
Attendent: Alright now everybody, get in crash positions [The passengers arrange themselves as if they just crashed.]
Kramer : Put down 30 degrees of flap. Striker now listen to me. Remember your breaks and switches, get ready to fly it out ...
Air Traffic Control : He's all over the place, 900 feet, up to 1300 feet ... what an asshole.
posted by wilko at 4:17 AM on October 5, 2008
Gloves are off.
Obama to call McCain 'erratic in crisis'
posted by Artw at 7:42 AM on October 5, 2008
Obama to call McCain 'erratic in crisis'
posted by Artw at 7:42 AM on October 5, 2008
Peripheral, but pretty great:
“I’m just enraged that McCain calls himself a maverick,” said Terrellita Maverick, 82, a San Antonio native who proudly carries the name of a family that has been known for its progressive politics since the 1600s, when an early ancestor in Boston got into trouble with the law over his agitation for the rights of indentured servants.
posted by neroli at 8:59 AM on October 5, 2008 [4 favorites]
“I’m just enraged that McCain calls himself a maverick,” said Terrellita Maverick, 82, a San Antonio native who proudly carries the name of a family that has been known for its progressive politics since the 1600s, when an early ancestor in Boston got into trouble with the law over his agitation for the rights of indentured servants.
posted by neroli at 8:59 AM on October 5, 2008 [4 favorites]
Imagine how Tom Cruise feels!
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
On behalf of Canadians everywhere, I say "Thanks, but no thanks!"
Oh, sure, and we know how that goes--you'll keep the money and use it to buy Hawaii.
posted by y2karl at 9:05 AM on October 5, 2008 [2 favorites]
Oh, sure, and we know how that goes--you'll keep the money and use it to buy Hawaii.
posted by y2karl at 9:05 AM on October 5, 2008 [2 favorites]
I wonder what the ratio of planes crashed to cars owned is... I won't ask John McCain because he's not so good with the numbers.
Comes in handy when you're balancing a budget: "700 million, 700 squizillion, what the hell! All of the numbers are made up! I'm a Maverick, I'll just tax people whatever I want! Everyone will give me a billion zillion dollars and a flying squirrel! Quick, Sarah, bring my Metamucil, this is too exciting!"
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:10 AM on October 5, 2008
Comes in handy when you're balancing a budget: "700 million, 700 squizillion, what the hell! All of the numbers are made up! I'm a Maverick, I'll just tax people whatever I want! Everyone will give me a billion zillion dollars and a flying squirrel! Quick, Sarah, bring my Metamucil, this is too exciting!"
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:10 AM on October 5, 2008
Obama to call McCain 'erratic in crisis'
The new Obama ad: McCain "erratic" and "out of touch".
posted by ericb at 9:34 AM on October 5, 2008
The new Obama ad: McCain "erratic" and "out of touch".
posted by ericb at 9:34 AM on October 5, 2008
Thanks for that homunculus.
So that's what McCain meant when he said he found a soul mate in Sarah. Me, Me, Me and screw the rest of ya, [high 5]
I don't thinkMr. Palin McPain, er, can I call him Jon, is going to be suing RS over any errors of fact.
A damning trail of Daddy to the rescue, compounded with those that continually helped in his ascension to higher corridors of power, feeding that gaping maw of his apparent insecurity, while overriding protocol and regulations ...to what end¿ Ego stroking, but not benefitting the majority or for the better. A selfish git.
That isn't the description of a 'good' politician, but a vengeful and petty person.
Fucking frightening matching a narcissistic personality with PTSD whose finger may be on the proverbial button. No, really. You're fucked.
I've stated before, after years of torture, some things 'aint going to be normal [in the head]. Where was that article about the episode of McCain on holiday in some warm climate with the book reading at the dinner table... gee, it's beginning to sound more plausible.
Considering that this was in RS magazine, it may reach a certain demographic who may read this as opposed to a NYTimes or Harvard Business Review, what have you. As for those passing on interesting facts because of a spelling error... Puhlease, spare telling us how perfect you are [however I reserve the right pointing out you missed the part mentioning the Keating 5].
blue_beetle
Not this Canadian, who will gladly take Alaska, thanks, not all Alaskans should be tarred and feathered, nor painted with the same brush. I don't think all Americans are representative of McCain&Pailin, for instance...
[damn, lookyhere, a spelling mistake, you may stop reading]
posted by alicesshoe at 9:46 AM on October 5, 2008
So that's what McCain meant when he said he found a soul mate in Sarah. Me, Me, Me and screw the rest of ya, [high 5]
I don't think
A damning trail of Daddy to the rescue, compounded with those that continually helped in his ascension to higher corridors of power, feeding that gaping maw of his apparent insecurity, while overriding protocol and regulations ...to what end¿ Ego stroking, but not benefitting the majority or for the better. A selfish git.
That isn't the description of a 'good' politician, but a vengeful and petty person.
Fucking frightening matching a narcissistic personality with PTSD whose finger may be on the proverbial button. No, really. You're fucked.
I've stated before, after years of torture, some things 'aint going to be normal [in the head]. Where was that article about the episode of McCain on holiday in some warm climate with the book reading at the dinner table... gee, it's beginning to sound more plausible.
Considering that this was in RS magazine, it may reach a certain demographic who may read this as opposed to a NYTimes or Harvard Business Review, what have you. As for those passing on interesting facts because of a spelling error... Puhlease, spare telling us how perfect you are [however I reserve the right pointing out you missed the part mentioning the Keating 5].
blue_beetle
Not this Canadian, who will gladly take Alaska, thanks, not all Alaskans should be tarred and feathered, nor painted with the same brush. I don't think all Americans are representative of McCain&Pailin, for instance...
[damn, lookyhere, a spelling mistake, you may stop reading]
posted by alicesshoe at 9:46 AM on October 5, 2008
Why is the NY Times continuing to ignore McCain's "own Bill Ayers"?
posted by homunculus at 9:52 AM on October 5, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 9:52 AM on October 5, 2008 [2 favorites]
Oh, sure, and we know how that goes--you'll keep the money and use it to buy Hawaii.
Please, please, please, YES!! Buy us, Canada!
Take us for free!!
swooon
posted by Surfurrus at 9:53 AM on October 5, 2008
Why is the NY Times continuing to ignore McCain's "own Bill Ayers"?
Because Liddy isn't considered a disgusting thug who betrayed everything his country stands for and is unrepentant about it (though he should be), but rather some kind of controversial but respectable figure. See also Ollie North and Chuck Coulson.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:10 AM on October 5, 2008
Because Liddy isn't considered a disgusting thug who betrayed everything his country stands for and is unrepentant about it (though he should be), but rather some kind of controversial but respectable figure. See also Ollie North and Chuck Coulson.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:10 AM on October 5, 2008
...then an errant missile from another US plane hit him while he was waiting to take from an aircraft carrier, the resultant damage from which killed 134 sailors, destroyed 20 planes and nearly sank the ship...
How was this in any way McCain's fault?
(Now, the other crashes, on the other hand...)
posted by ymgve at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2008
How was this in any way McCain's fault?
(Now, the other crashes, on the other hand...)
posted by ymgve at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2008
How about McCain sending birthday greetings to Joseph Bonanno?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:27 AM on October 5, 2008
posted by kirkaracha at 11:27 AM on October 5, 2008
And if you send us Palin, we're sending you Gilles Duceppe.
I want to see Duceppe at Mardi Gras.
posted by rokusan at 12:30 PM on October 5, 2008
I want to see Duceppe at Mardi Gras.
posted by rokusan at 12:30 PM on October 5, 2008
Because Liddy isn't considered a disgusting thug who betrayed everything his country stands for and is unrepentant about it (though he should be), but rather some kind of controversial but respectable figure. See also Ollie North and Chuck Coulson.
It's all about framing, though. This is really a problem for the Democratic Party and has been since Reagan. It's not true that G Gordon Liddy is considered respectable, except by the Republican party faithful, and not all of them respect him, either. Similarly, Ayers isn't really considered to be a dangerous radical these days, but the Republicans succeed in framing the discussion that way. The same thing happened with Rev. Wright. The Democrats managed to frame a discussion with him, but it was inter-party, and it was pretty ugly and tinged with racism. A particular line of attack against Liddy would be able to paint him as a dangerous and subversive person with ties to Nixon and direct involvement in Watergate. It doesn't really matter that he's not really dangerous anymore and has served his time. You repeat that message enough times and you get the message in the public discussion. It has the effect of association, but it only works effectively for a couple weeks anymore. That's why McCain's campaign is pulling this out now.
Now, I'm not claiming this is the right way to go, ethically or morally, but it would work if the Democrats played this game more often. It's Rove's favorite tactic, fwiw.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:09 PM on October 5, 2008
It's all about framing, though. This is really a problem for the Democratic Party and has been since Reagan. It's not true that G Gordon Liddy is considered respectable, except by the Republican party faithful, and not all of them respect him, either. Similarly, Ayers isn't really considered to be a dangerous radical these days, but the Republicans succeed in framing the discussion that way. The same thing happened with Rev. Wright. The Democrats managed to frame a discussion with him, but it was inter-party, and it was pretty ugly and tinged with racism. A particular line of attack against Liddy would be able to paint him as a dangerous and subversive person with ties to Nixon and direct involvement in Watergate. It doesn't really matter that he's not really dangerous anymore and has served his time. You repeat that message enough times and you get the message in the public discussion. It has the effect of association, but it only works effectively for a couple weeks anymore. That's why McCain's campaign is pulling this out now.
Now, I'm not claiming this is the right way to go, ethically or morally, but it would work if the Democrats played this game more often. It's Rove's favorite tactic, fwiw.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:09 PM on October 5, 2008
KeatingEconomics.com: Obama to launch massive multimedia offensive against McCain re Keating Five Scandal
posted by homunculus at 8:17 PM on October 5, 2008
posted by homunculus at 8:17 PM on October 5, 2008
Calling yourself a "maverick" is like calling yourself "cool."
posted by gottabefunky at 10:31 PM on October 5, 2008
posted by gottabefunky at 10:31 PM on October 5, 2008
Calling yourself a "maverick" is like calling yourself "cool."
This reminds me of a discussion one of my friends and I had about the Big Lebowski. We were saying that pretty much everyone can be pegged as one of the characters - f'rinstance, she was distinctly Donnie and her husband was definitely Walter. (Interestingly enough, the character Walter is eeriely in both appearance and demeanor similar to my step-father also named Walter.) But an unspoken rule is that you can't, you absolutely can not self-identify as The Dude. If you believe you are The Dude, you are clearly very un-Dude.
A mutual acquaintance of ours had self-identified as The Dude and she and her husband both agreed later on, not in his presence, that he was really, really the most like Brandt. Which, upon reflection, is oh so true. Which just goes to show, you can NOT self-identify as The Dude. It only proves you're out of touch with yourself. It's a very complicated case, a lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what have yous.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:29 AM on October 6, 2008 [6 favorites]
This reminds me of a discussion one of my friends and I had about the Big Lebowski. We were saying that pretty much everyone can be pegged as one of the characters - f'rinstance, she was distinctly Donnie and her husband was definitely Walter. (Interestingly enough, the character Walter is eeriely in both appearance and demeanor similar to my step-father also named Walter.) But an unspoken rule is that you can't, you absolutely can not self-identify as The Dude. If you believe you are The Dude, you are clearly very un-Dude.
A mutual acquaintance of ours had self-identified as The Dude and she and her husband both agreed later on, not in his presence, that he was really, really the most like Brandt. Which, upon reflection, is oh so true. Which just goes to show, you can NOT self-identify as The Dude. It only proves you're out of touch with yourself. It's a very complicated case, a lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what have yous.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:29 AM on October 6, 2008 [6 favorites]
Character does matter.
A friend of mine in Denmark just sent me this. (It's in Norwegian but the English translation is here.)
It's just a moment in time and really not a big deal but I think that Obama acting as the Good Samaritan does speak about his character.
I've thought long and hard about Sarah Palin and her religious ilk and have come to the conclusion that the Obama/Biden ticket is much more Christian acting that the McCain/Palin one. First of all, all her snarkiness doesn't seem very Christian. (Yeah, yeah, I'm snarky too, but I don't pretend to be a Christian because I'm really not and I'm more than willing to admit that extreme snarkiness is not one of my endearing traits.)
Second, I think that the VP debate showed one particularly interesting philosophical difference between the two tickets and that is that while Palin railed against the "redistribution of wealth" Biden said that he considered helping the less fortunate as basic fairness. I hate to get all Beatitudes on your ass, but which side follows Christ's teachings more closely and which one is more into the smiting aspect of the Old Testament?
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:55 AM on October 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
A friend of mine in Denmark just sent me this. (It's in Norwegian but the English translation is here.)
It's just a moment in time and really not a big deal but I think that Obama acting as the Good Samaritan does speak about his character.
I've thought long and hard about Sarah Palin and her religious ilk and have come to the conclusion that the Obama/Biden ticket is much more Christian acting that the McCain/Palin one. First of all, all her snarkiness doesn't seem very Christian. (Yeah, yeah, I'm snarky too, but I don't pretend to be a Christian because I'm really not and I'm more than willing to admit that extreme snarkiness is not one of my endearing traits.)
Second, I think that the VP debate showed one particularly interesting philosophical difference between the two tickets and that is that while Palin railed against the "redistribution of wealth" Biden said that he considered helping the less fortunate as basic fairness. I hate to get all Beatitudes on your ass, but which side follows Christ's teachings more closely and which one is more into the smiting aspect of the Old Testament?
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:55 AM on October 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
God hates it when Sarah Palin winks:
A naughty person, a wicked man [or woman], walketh with a froward mouth. He winketh with his eyes ... he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy. Proverbs 6:12-15
He [or she] that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall. Proverbs 10:10
posted by Floydd at 9:26 AM on October 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
A naughty person, a wicked man [or woman], walketh with a froward mouth. He winketh with his eyes ... he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy. Proverbs 6:12-15
He [or she] that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall. Proverbs 10:10
posted by Floydd at 9:26 AM on October 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
McCain: I'm Not Raising Taxes. I'm Cutting Medicare!
Maverick!
posted by homunculus at 9:36 AM on October 6, 2008
Maverick!
posted by homunculus at 9:36 AM on October 6, 2008
Retired Admiral Hits Back At McCain's Attack On Obama As "Dangerous"
posted by homunculus at 9:42 AM on October 6, 2008
posted by homunculus at 9:42 AM on October 6, 2008
Now, Dude, that's a name no one would self-apply where I come from.
posted by designbot at 10:27 AM on October 6, 2008
posted by designbot at 10:27 AM on October 6, 2008
In my book, the only person who gets to call himself Maverick is James Garner.
posted by scody at 11:03 AM on October 6, 2008
posted by scody at 11:03 AM on October 6, 2008
McCain campaign: Keating Five investigation was 'a political smear job' on John McCain
If McCain is recanting his Keating Five confession then he's recanting his entire status as a reformer
posted by homunculus at 12:52 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
If McCain is recanting his Keating Five confession then he's recanting his entire status as a reformer
posted by homunculus at 12:52 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
“ If it really were country first, John McCain would probably be walking around without one or two arms or legs — or he'd be dead."”
I hear Kerry got his purple hearts for stubbing his toe.
“McCain on the Forrestal:”
Pretty much just shit. So McCain is supposed to be there fighting fires along side damage control? Sure, everyone fights fires on a ship, but once the firemen are there you’re in the way.
Oh, McCain might be a braggart and an exploitive prick, but that doesn’t change the facts.
And this isn’t akin to ‘swiftboating’? Get back.
“c) his experiences as a prisoner made him crazy; it's not "temper", it's PTSD that makes him unfit for the Presidency”
“PTSD whose finger may be on the proverbial button. No, really. You're fucked.”
“perhaps PTSD since he exhibits rage and outbursts often,”
Allow me to say to many of y’all parroting that - from the bottom of my heart - go fuck yourselves.
If any of you had had the balls to do something dangerous enough to risk your own lives instead of spreading this sanctimonious and hateful nonsense you’d know that cops, firefighters, rescue teams and other first responders get PTSD as well.
As do victims of sexual assault, car accidents, fires and other disasters, victims of child abuse - in fact anyone whos suffered extreme psychological trauma - no one says they’re unfit leaders or can’t run for office or makes fun of them.
But it’s perfectly ok here - Why?
Because you disagree with the guy’s politics? So what if he was abused as a kid - same deal? And if he were a woman who’d been raped?
Unfit to hold office because she’s got PTSD. Yeah, that’d go over real well.
(Oh, but that’s different Smedley)
Uh huh. Explain to me why some of y’all aren’t exactly the same as those grinning ignorant harpies making fun of Kerry with the purple-heart band aids? Oh, because they *meant* to crap on the medal for being wounded in combat but y’all don’t mean to crap on folks with PTSD? It was wrong to make light of it with Kerry, but here - different story?
Same god damned behavior you castigate Republicans for.
We judge others by their acts, but ourselves by our intentions.
Now, will I vote for the man? No. But he could have crashed 50 planes or been the biggest jagoff on earth - if I agreed with his policy direction I’d vote for him.
Reminds me of that b.s. with who ‘won’ the debate. Doesn’t matter who ‘won’ only thing that matters is who’s right.
Simple fact of the matter is, McCain’s wrong. It’s reason enough.
And hell, even if he wasn't full of B.S., his people are so used to lying big they're gonna shoot him in the foot with every forward step he takes, if he makes any.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:10 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
I hear Kerry got his purple hearts for stubbing his toe.
“McCain on the Forrestal:”
Pretty much just shit. So McCain is supposed to be there fighting fires along side damage control? Sure, everyone fights fires on a ship, but once the firemen are there you’re in the way.
Oh, McCain might be a braggart and an exploitive prick, but that doesn’t change the facts.
And this isn’t akin to ‘swiftboating’? Get back.
“c) his experiences as a prisoner made him crazy; it's not "temper", it's PTSD that makes him unfit for the Presidency”
“PTSD whose finger may be on the proverbial button. No, really. You're fucked.”
“perhaps PTSD since he exhibits rage and outbursts often,”
Allow me to say to many of y’all parroting that - from the bottom of my heart - go fuck yourselves.
If any of you had had the balls to do something dangerous enough to risk your own lives instead of spreading this sanctimonious and hateful nonsense you’d know that cops, firefighters, rescue teams and other first responders get PTSD as well.
As do victims of sexual assault, car accidents, fires and other disasters, victims of child abuse - in fact anyone whos suffered extreme psychological trauma - no one says they’re unfit leaders or can’t run for office or makes fun of them.
But it’s perfectly ok here - Why?
Because you disagree with the guy’s politics? So what if he was abused as a kid - same deal? And if he were a woman who’d been raped?
Unfit to hold office because she’s got PTSD. Yeah, that’d go over real well.
(Oh, but that’s different Smedley)
Uh huh. Explain to me why some of y’all aren’t exactly the same as those grinning ignorant harpies making fun of Kerry with the purple-heart band aids? Oh, because they *meant* to crap on the medal for being wounded in combat but y’all don’t mean to crap on folks with PTSD? It was wrong to make light of it with Kerry, but here - different story?
Same god damned behavior you castigate Republicans for.
We judge others by their acts, but ourselves by our intentions.
Now, will I vote for the man? No. But he could have crashed 50 planes or been the biggest jagoff on earth - if I agreed with his policy direction I’d vote for him.
Reminds me of that b.s. with who ‘won’ the debate. Doesn’t matter who ‘won’ only thing that matters is who’s right.
Simple fact of the matter is, McCain’s wrong. It’s reason enough.
And hell, even if he wasn't full of B.S., his people are so used to lying big they're gonna shoot him in the foot with every forward step he takes, if he makes any.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:10 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
You know, last couple of days I've been thinking about the end of 8 Mile a lot.
posted by Artw at 3:33 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 3:33 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Now, will I vote for the man? No. But he could have crashed 50 planes or been the biggest jagoff on earth - if I agreed with his policy direction I’d vote for him.
I'm not sure I agree with you. Mouthing the right policies is not tantamount to implementing them, which takes courage, smarts, and competence. I'm sure many that agreed with George Bush's policies are dismayed and the damage he has done to those policies by the sheer weight of his incompetent prosecuting of them.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:18 PM on October 6, 2008
I'm not sure I agree with you. Mouthing the right policies is not tantamount to implementing them, which takes courage, smarts, and competence. I'm sure many that agreed with George Bush's policies are dismayed and the damage he has done to those policies by the sheer weight of his incompetent prosecuting of them.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:18 PM on October 6, 2008
McCain campaign: Keating Five investigation was 'a political smear job' on John McCain
It's not whether the charge is true, it's whether you can give your remaining supporters a talking point so they aren't just sitting there with their mouths open when their Democratic friend asks them about the Keating Five. McCain could be caught redhanded with his penis up a 10-year-old's butt, and his team would come out with some talking point: "He had to save the boy's life by preventing his anal exsanguination. The suggestion by his opponents that John would never engage in anything like this is despicable..." And they don't expect the other side to buy it, they just don't want that last remaining supporter to be left hanging with no comeback. It's all about the come back.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:25 PM on October 6, 2008
It's not whether the charge is true, it's whether you can give your remaining supporters a talking point so they aren't just sitting there with their mouths open when their Democratic friend asks them about the Keating Five. McCain could be caught redhanded with his penis up a 10-year-old's butt, and his team would come out with some talking point: "He had to save the boy's life by preventing his anal exsanguination. The suggestion by his opponents that John would never engage in anything like this is despicable..." And they don't expect the other side to buy it, they just don't want that last remaining supporter to be left hanging with no comeback. It's all about the come back.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:25 PM on October 6, 2008
“Mouthing the right policies is not tantamount to implementing them, which takes courage, smarts, and competence”
Agreed. So, to be clear, given he executed policy I agree with. He doesn’t. Even the stuff I do agree with he’s waffled on. The torture thing comes to mind most readily.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:30 PM on October 6, 2008
Agreed. So, to be clear, given he executed policy I agree with. He doesn’t. Even the stuff I do agree with he’s waffled on. The torture thing comes to mind most readily.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:30 PM on October 6, 2008
(Although “courage, smarts, and competence” are sort of loose terms - I think mentally challenged individuals can make proper principled decisions. Might take a bit longer. And I wouldn’t necessarially vote for so critical a position as president, but hell, we let just about anyone over 18 vote. A case can be made in terms of moral reasoning for folks in prison (I disagree - once you serve your time you should get the benefit of the doubt) but not in terms of competence, etc.)
posted by Smedleyman at 6:34 PM on October 6, 2008
posted by Smedleyman at 6:34 PM on October 6, 2008
You know where McCain is in the polls now? Between Barack and a hard place!
posted by jamstigator at 7:02 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jamstigator at 7:02 PM on October 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
McCain is resurrecting the GOP's oldest tactic: Smearing Obama as a scary black terrorist sympathizer. But he may meet the same fate as Barry Goldwater.
posted by homunculus at 9:54 PM on October 6, 2008
posted by homunculus at 9:54 PM on October 6, 2008
I was amazed at the ad "Mum" that was linked to in homunculus' Salon piece. They talk about greedy CEOs and have a picture of a black guy. Like most CEOs are black?
WTF?
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:52 PM on October 6, 2008
WTF?
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:52 PM on October 6, 2008
Never have I witnessed such a popular and credible public figure diminish himself in such a short time.
posted by Neiltupper at 4:00 AM on October 7, 2008
posted by Neiltupper at 4:00 AM on October 7, 2008
If any of you had had the balls to do something dangerous enough to risk your own lives instead of spreading this sanctimonious and hateful nonsense you’d know that cops, firefighters, rescue teams and other first responders get PTSD as well. As do victims of sexual assault, car accidents, fires and other disasters, victims of child abuse - in fact anyone whos suffered extreme psychological trauma - no one says they’re unfit leaders or can’t run for office or makes fun of them. But it’s perfectly ok here - Why? Because you disagree with the guy’s politics? So what if he was abused as a kid - same deal? And if he were a woman who’d been raped?
Or what if he was abandoned by his father as a young boy and raised in a world that viewed you as different, an outsider, and of an inferior race? Do you think that might cause some psychological trauma?
Smedlyman is right, this is Swiftboating, we just give it a pass because its done against the guy we dislike. This is politics as usual.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:15 AM on October 7, 2008
Or what if he was abandoned by his father as a young boy and raised in a world that viewed you as different, an outsider, and of an inferior race? Do you think that might cause some psychological trauma?
Smedlyman is right, this is Swiftboating, we just give it a pass because its done against the guy we dislike. This is politics as usual.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:15 AM on October 7, 2008
Neiltupper writes "Never have I witnessed such a popular and credible public figure diminish himself in such a short time."
Well, if he hadn't sold his soul to the political machine for a little favor, this might have been a very different campaign. Then again, without the full force of the GOP behind him, McCain would be facing a different problem, but maybe not an insurmountable one. I think in this case he's painted himself into a corner and is just trying anything now, because time is running out. Like Hillary Clinton's tactics in the last stretch, I don't think this is going to work and in the end will hurt McCain more than Obama. These stories they're throwing around are old news, so they won't get the news cycles out of it like she did.
But McCain's "maverick" image is mostly a put-on, anyway. He's just getting lazy about maintaining it.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2008
Well, if he hadn't sold his soul to the political machine for a little favor, this might have been a very different campaign. Then again, without the full force of the GOP behind him, McCain would be facing a different problem, but maybe not an insurmountable one. I think in this case he's painted himself into a corner and is just trying anything now, because time is running out. Like Hillary Clinton's tactics in the last stretch, I don't think this is going to work and in the end will hurt McCain more than Obama. These stories they're throwing around are old news, so they won't get the news cycles out of it like she did.
But McCain's "maverick" image is mostly a put-on, anyway. He's just getting lazy about maintaining it.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2008
« Older We'll do it live! | art history Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
But to add something new, I hasten to mention that "maverick" is an anagram of "vice mark".
posted by twoleftfeet at 2:10 PM on October 4, 2008