Desperate to get to San Francisco
March 5, 2009 11:16 AM Subscribe
"Cathay Pacific has apologized for embarrassing a customer whose anguish after missing her flight was captured on video by an airline employee and posted on the Internet..."
It seems the woman was bound for the Wellington Fringe Festival.
posted by dydecker at 11:21 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by dydecker at 11:21 AM on March 5, 2009
Where's a tazer when you need one.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:24 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:24 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Where's Vancouver RCMP when you really need them?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:24 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:24 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
*Shakes fist at FfA*
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:24 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:24 AM on March 5, 2009
A healthy reaction probably. Here in the UK we just make sarcastic remarks in a very calm voice and twitch a little.
posted by rongorongo at 11:26 AM on March 5, 2009 [18 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 11:26 AM on March 5, 2009 [18 favorites]
I don't get why people act like this. It was embarrassing before being on YouTube.
posted by GuyZero at 11:28 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 11:28 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Hell I do that when I miss the elevator.
posted by mazola at 11:28 AM on March 5, 2009 [11 favorites]
posted by mazola at 11:28 AM on March 5, 2009 [11 favorites]
The employee filming this was wrong. The woman's behavior was wrong. The story doesn't seem to indicate that missing the flight meant any especially difficult loss, but one wonders...or just snarks, without any hint of concern for what was actually lost.
posted by Goofyy at 11:31 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by Goofyy at 11:31 AM on March 5, 2009
Can someone translate what she's saying? I assume it must be "I HAD TO BE ON THAT PLANE OR MY CHILDREN WOULD BE KILLED!!!!!!!!!"
posted by DU at 11:32 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by DU at 11:32 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
15 seconds into that video I was so annoyed by the high shrieking voice of that woman that I would have put her on a plane myself just to make her stop. Wow.
posted by misha at 11:35 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by misha at 11:35 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Aticle says she was saying, "They have no compassion. The plane hasn't even left, and they've shut the gate. They're crazy! They're crazy!"
I didn't enjoy watching her distress, but have to say I see nothing wrong with filming this or posting it (if it had been done by people not working for the airline). Kind of a metaphorical public caning which was earned by her behavior.
Even though it was done by employees I'm almost still on their side. I don't know how common it is to have to deal with hysterical people like this, but I would have to say even once is too often.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:39 AM on March 5, 2009
I didn't enjoy watching her distress, but have to say I see nothing wrong with filming this or posting it (if it had been done by people not working for the airline). Kind of a metaphorical public caning which was earned by her behavior.
Even though it was done by employees I'm almost still on their side. I don't know how common it is to have to deal with hysterical people like this, but I would have to say even once is too often.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:39 AM on March 5, 2009
Haven't we all wanted to do that at an airport? I mean, is there a more soul-sucking place on the planet?
posted by paultopia at 11:39 AM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by paultopia at 11:39 AM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
Cathartic, but not Pacific.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2009 [22 favorites]
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2009 [22 favorites]
That's three. Looks like forty-three minutes in the timeout chair for you, young lady.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
She's just lucky it happened in Hong Kong. If it would have happened in the states, she would have died from self strangulation despite having her hands cuffed behind her back.
posted by Sailormom at 11:41 AM on March 5, 2009 [14 favorites]
posted by Sailormom at 11:41 AM on March 5, 2009 [14 favorites]
Panopticon is a cool word.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:42 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by cjorgensen at 11:42 AM on March 5, 2009
Barring a translation with bits like, "But you don't understand, my donor heart was on that plane!" my guess is that she either has an inadequately treated mood disorder or this sort of response has been a useful behavior in manipulating various people throughout her life who will give her what she wants, just to have her cease that kind of behavior, people who are probably chuckling and forwarding this video to one another with notes like, "Remember when she did this at Christmas when we ran out of eggnog?" She needs a thirty minute break, in a corner, where she can tantrum by herself until she's gotten it all worked out.
The airline's action raises the question: who will apologize for the customer embarrassing herself?
posted by adipocere at 11:43 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
The airline's action raises the question: who will apologize for the customer embarrassing herself?
posted by adipocere at 11:43 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Can someone translate what she's saying?
It was mainly "But Rickyyyyy!"
But she's never going to get to the Club Babalu that way.
posted by pracowity at 11:45 AM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
It was mainly "But Rickyyyyy!"
But she's never going to get to the Club Babalu that way.
posted by pracowity at 11:45 AM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
I get like that when waiting for a Greyhound bus. And when on a Greyhound bus. But nobody notices, because they are acting the same way as well.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:45 AM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:45 AM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
Somebody needs to call the waaaaahmbulance.
To take her to the lolspital.
posted by chronkite at 11:46 AM on March 5, 2009 [17 favorites]
To take her to the lolspital.
posted by chronkite at 11:46 AM on March 5, 2009 [17 favorites]
I watched a business man headed from Chicago O'Hare to Madison Truax on a regional AA completely lose his shit over being told he would have no flight that day. Hurled his briefcase down the terminal walkway and everything.
My son, 8 or 9 at the time, remarked that it was the sort of behavior that should get him a time out and an early bed time. I was surprised he wasn't arrested.
The dude somehow ended up on my flight, which was the last one to Madison that night. I don't know how that managed to happen, but in my honest opinion, they should have made the him walk.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009
When I was in high school we took a field trip to a mental hospital. Someone laughed at one of the patients in the hall, so we weren't allowed to go to the Psyche Ward, but instead were confined to the museum where they had insane surgical instruments and machines for shock treatment. I now know what I missed.
Thanks for filling that void in my life.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009
Thanks for filling that void in my life.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009
I'm Chinese-American, and travel between the States and HK every now and then, often with Cathay Pacific via Vancouver. There's something different when I fly out of HK, it's a lot more "chaotic" (wrong term but short on time). For one thing, there's no such thing as waiting for your zone number to be called before you board the plane. Sure, there are zone numbers, but don't bother calling them because everyone's jamming the doors anyways once boarding is called. Also the fasten seat belt rule is more likely to be ignored coming into HK, especially upon landing and taxing to the gate. People will unfasten once the plane slows to get their bags from overhead, as if ready to go once the doors are open. Seems like everything is a rush.
Anyways, it's hard for me to make out what she's saying but the reps are responding 'don't be like this, there are seats on the next flight'.
posted by spoons at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009
Anyways, it's hard for me to make out what she's saying but the reps are responding 'don't be like this, there are seats on the next flight'.
posted by spoons at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009
Panopticon is a cool word.
I saw what you did there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I saw what you did there.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:48 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anyone else reminded of Roshomon?
posted by chunking express at 11:50 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by chunking express at 11:50 AM on March 5, 2009
the Psyche WardIs that where people go when they've been faked out too many times?
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:52 AM on March 5, 2009 [14 favorites]
I find that watching this is a bit unnerving without the context. What if it is something big, like a dying relative or something, that she's going to miss. It's a bit creepy, like filming someone grieving at funeral and posting it to YouTube with jokey subtitles underneath.
posted by chococat at 11:55 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by chococat at 11:55 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Based my my admittedly pretty piss-poor Cantonese on one pass, I could make out the following:
Before falling to the floor - I have no idea what she is saying
After getting up - I can only catch snippets
"The plane is still there"
"How can this be?"
"How dare you?"
"Are you kidding me?"
"Something something you haven't closed the doors, what does that have to do with me?"
"You have to, why won't you let me go?"
Husband: "You should let her go."
Turns on husband a bit.
"You something something with the car. I knew we couldn't - [make it?]"
"I knew"
Hyperventilate. Hyperventilate.
That's all I got. Not watching it again, sorry.
posted by typewriter at 11:56 AM on March 5, 2009
Before falling to the floor - I have no idea what she is saying
After getting up - I can only catch snippets
"The plane is still there"
"How can this be?"
"How dare you?"
"Are you kidding me?"
"Something something you haven't closed the doors, what does that have to do with me?"
"You have to, why won't you let me go?"
Husband: "You should let her go."
Turns on husband a bit.
"You something something with the car. I knew we couldn't - [make it?]"
"I knew"
Hyperventilate. Hyperventilate.
That's all I got. Not watching it again, sorry.
posted by typewriter at 11:56 AM on March 5, 2009
She should try that shit in front of the American Idol judges. They'll put her right through to the next round.
posted by scody at 11:58 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by scody at 11:58 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think the passenger should have behaved like this (and I get annoyed when people treat anyone rudely or subject a person to something unnecessary, evne if they do work there), but if the employee and company were truly "sorry" for posting this, why is it still on youtube?
posted by Wolfster at 11:59 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by Wolfster at 11:59 AM on March 5, 2009
"...the woman met with Cathay's customer relations officials last week and was calm during the four-hour meeting as she explained the embarrassment the video has caused her."
Four hours to explain what?
posted by HopperFan at 12:01 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Four hours to explain what?
posted by HopperFan at 12:01 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I clicked on the video and donned my headphones, hearing the woman screaming with a speed-metal music background. I was thinking, "Wow, that music is really innnn-appropriate!" Then I realized I had Pandora loaded on another tab....
posted by LordSludge at 12:01 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by LordSludge at 12:01 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
She sounds like Lucy ("You got some 'splainin' to do.") Ricardo at points in that video.
posted by ericb at 12:02 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by ericb at 12:02 PM on March 5, 2009
A healthy reaction probably. Here in the UK we just make sarcastic remarks in a very calm voice and twitch a little.
Since living in the states I've seen the power of complaining and being direct. It actually achieves things. When flights are delayed for anything apart from weather I try to be nice, but firm, even going so far as to ask if there are any more flights and what they can do for me. In other words to move away from my typical British reaction which iwould be:
"No, that's quite alright. I'm just surprised that the only plane that Continental Airlines has has broken down" before shuffling off.
posted by ob at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Since living in the states I've seen the power of complaining and being direct. It actually achieves things. When flights are delayed for anything apart from weather I try to be nice, but firm, even going so far as to ask if there are any more flights and what they can do for me. In other words to move away from my typical British reaction which iwould be:
"No, that's quite alright. I'm just surprised that the only plane that Continental Airlines has has broken down" before shuffling off.
posted by ob at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Haven't we all wanted to do that at an airport? I mean, is there a more soul-sucking place on the planet?
You sound like a man who has not visited Hong Kong International Airport. SOOOO COOL!
posted by grobstein at 12:08 PM on March 5, 2009
You sound like a man who has not visited Hong Kong International Airport. SOOOO COOL!
posted by grobstein at 12:08 PM on March 5, 2009
FYI, Burhanistan posted the version with subtitles...
posted by LordSludge at 12:08 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by LordSludge at 12:08 PM on March 5, 2009
typewriter: yeah, I'm a fluent speaker in Cantonese and I couldn't understand her slurred-mumble-cry. All I can gather is her repeating "How is this possible?!?!?!?!?!!?"
spoons: Yeah whenever I visit Hong Kong, it's ridiculously rushed and efficient. While people definitely do wait in line, I've gotten harassed for being too slow. The craziest thing I've seen is at the line customs going into Macau from Hong Kong — one more lane opened and immediately (we're talking less than 5 seconds here), the line was completely filled up and equilibrium was reached amongst all lines, ridiculous (the speed at money-counting at banks are also fun to watch).
Also, Hong Kong has a bit of a reputation for posting video of people going batshit insane onto the internets and being huge memes. Previously on MeFi: Bus Uncle.
posted by amuseDetachment at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2009
spoons: Yeah whenever I visit Hong Kong, it's ridiculously rushed and efficient. While people definitely do wait in line, I've gotten harassed for being too slow. The craziest thing I've seen is at the line customs going into Macau from Hong Kong — one more lane opened and immediately (we're talking less than 5 seconds here), the line was completely filled up and equilibrium was reached amongst all lines, ridiculous (the speed at money-counting at banks are also fun to watch).
Also, Hong Kong has a bit of a reputation for posting video of people going batshit insane onto the internets and being huge memes. Previously on MeFi: Bus Uncle.
posted by amuseDetachment at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2009
Sure, there are zone numbers, but don't bother calling them because everyone's jamming the doors anyways once boarding is called.
Is this a cultural thing? My friend from San Fransisco said that people would elbow and shove and basically fight each other to get onto the bus first.
posted by dunkadunc at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2009
Is this a cultural thing? My friend from San Fransisco said that people would elbow and shove and basically fight each other to get onto the bus first.
posted by dunkadunc at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2009
Did anybody video her in the airline office demanding an apology?
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:27 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:27 PM on March 5, 2009
I don't see why she simply wasn't tasered unconscious and then charged with interfering with an airport's activities, for 20-to-life, while the airport defended its actions...oh wait, this wasn't in America. Never mind.
posted by happyroach at 12:27 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 12:27 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
dunkadunc: I've seen that in Guangzhou, but have never seen it in Hong Kong. You wouldn't see any more pushing on the subway than you would in New York or San Francisco. There is a desire, however, to be first — and they will do so any way possible without violating someone's space in line. In terms of culture, it's also interesting to see the age gap going on as well. Those under 35-years old in Hong Kong are very different than those above 55, and I suspect that there is a little bit of this cultural age gap that's feeding these memes of people flipping out (it's usually the older set that are very willing to flip out and yell, while those under 35 are a lot more introverted).
posted by amuseDetachment at 12:30 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by amuseDetachment at 12:30 PM on March 5, 2009
Well, in general, the nice, but firm approach will almost always work well at airports. Just don't scream, be chaotic, blame us for everything to ever happen to you on the way to wherever your final destination is. I work at an airport, and frankly yes weather sucks sometimes or stuff just doesn't go right. Just ask us what we can do, and don't take we can't do anything unless an explanation is provided why we can't. Otherwise, be nice we're under a lot of stress sometimes.
Regardless, everyone should in general be nice to customer service representatives as long as said representative is not being a total dick.
posted by lizarrd at 12:42 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Regardless, everyone should in general be nice to customer service representatives as long as said representative is not being a total dick.
posted by lizarrd at 12:42 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, okay, apparently airline employees filming things is fine, but airline passengers filming things, not OK.
Only wrong that he posted it to the web, not the actual filming. What if she became violent? Video evidence would've been useful.
I pretty much agree with this. There are very few instances in which I can imagine a good reason to restrict video in a place where you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, including airplane terminals. I think it would have been decent of the airline employee to show some restraint rather than posting it on the Internet... nobody wants their worst, most hysterical moments on worldwide media, and a little application of the Golden Rule would have gone a long way here. But even so, if you're going to have a meltdown in public, you have to realize that it's more or less a public event, and it's entirely possible somebody's going to have a camera.
posted by weston at 12:44 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Only wrong that he posted it to the web, not the actual filming. What if she became violent? Video evidence would've been useful.
I pretty much agree with this. There are very few instances in which I can imagine a good reason to restrict video in a place where you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, including airplane terminals. I think it would have been decent of the airline employee to show some restraint rather than posting it on the Internet... nobody wants their worst, most hysterical moments on worldwide media, and a little application of the Golden Rule would have gone a long way here. But even so, if you're going to have a meltdown in public, you have to realize that it's more or less a public event, and it's entirely possible somebody's going to have a camera.
posted by weston at 12:44 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think is one acts like a total batshit psycho at the airport, once should expect to see oneself on YouTube.
posted by Sassenach at 12:47 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Sassenach at 12:47 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That lady is every guy's ex wife's mother.
posted by Postroad at 12:59 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 12:59 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Singapore airport is the coolest airport in the universe. I had a very pleasant 12-hour layover there. HK is nice too.
I love Cantonese culture, but there is definitely a higher frequency of older people just absolutely flipping out and going bezerk for 20 minutes among their population than amongst any other population I've encountered.
posted by bluejayk at 12:59 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I love Cantonese culture, but there is definitely a higher frequency of older people just absolutely flipping out and going bezerk for 20 minutes among their population than amongst any other population I've encountered.
posted by bluejayk at 12:59 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Even though it was done by employees I'm almost still on their side.
Given the commonplace rudeness of airline passengers, I'm still totally on theirs.
In a truly just world, Cathay Pacific would have come back with "We stand behind our employees. Nobody should have to put up with conduct such as this passenger displayed, and our policy has always been that our employees should not respond positively to tantrums. If this passenger did not wish her embarrassing conduct to be seen by others, she should have refrained from behaving embarrassingly in a public space."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:06 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Given the commonplace rudeness of airline passengers, I'm still totally on theirs.
In a truly just world, Cathay Pacific would have come back with "We stand behind our employees. Nobody should have to put up with conduct such as this passenger displayed, and our policy has always been that our employees should not respond positively to tantrums. If this passenger did not wish her embarrassing conduct to be seen by others, she should have refrained from behaving embarrassingly in a public space."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:06 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Hello Drama Queen!
posted by Holy foxy moxie batman! at 1:15 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by Holy foxy moxie batman! at 1:15 PM on March 5, 2009
Anyone else reminded of Roshomon?
Maybe that's how you remember it.
posted by katillathehun at 1:39 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Maybe that's how you remember it.
posted by katillathehun at 1:39 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Some parents give in to their children when they throw tantrums. Those children grow up to become adults like this woman.
That lady is every guy's ex wife's mother.
...or ex-wife...
If is typical then man I feel sorry for her husband.
posted by eye of newt at 1:39 PM on March 5, 2009
That lady is every guy's ex wife's mother.
...or ex-wife...
If is typical then man I feel sorry for her husband.
posted by eye of newt at 1:39 PM on March 5, 2009
misha : 15 seconds into that video I was so annoyed by the high shrieking voice of that woman that I would have put her on a plane myself just to make her stop. Wow.
That is the instinctive reaction, but this is pet training 101 stuff. You don't reward bad behavior. If you capitulate, all she has learned is that she can get what she wants by acting this way:
To me, the appropriate response goes something like this: You do everything within your power to aid the customer short of actually inconveniencing other passengers, then you explain that such behavior is disruptive and will not be tolerated. If she calms down you will jump through hoops of fire to help her, but until then, if she doesn't start acting rational, you are going to call security and have her removed.
I like to call it "squeaky wheel starts behaving, or it gets greased (in the worst sense of the word)" approach to customer service.
posted by quin at 2:19 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That is the instinctive reaction, but this is pet training 101 stuff. You don't reward bad behavior. If you capitulate, all she has learned is that she can get what she wants by acting this way:
To me, the appropriate response goes something like this: You do everything within your power to aid the customer short of actually inconveniencing other passengers, then you explain that such behavior is disruptive and will not be tolerated. If she calms down you will jump through hoops of fire to help her, but until then, if she doesn't start acting rational, you are going to call security and have her removed.
I like to call it "squeaky wheel starts behaving, or it gets greased (in the worst sense of the word)" approach to customer service.
posted by quin at 2:19 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
[in China] when the doors to a bus, train, or plane are opened, the last people to board are Americans and Europeans
I am dying to see an aerial video of a Beijing subway car opening up onto the platform and the hysterical deadlock of movement. The people waiting on the platform immediately swarm into the people leaving the car, and it's a 3-minute push-shove-stumble-push-argh-elbow-push-mutter-stumble before the people entering get past the people exiting. If there's one tradition I will thank British Empire for imparting to Americans, it's beauty of a queue.
posted by zoomorphic at 2:23 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I am dying to see an aerial video of a Beijing subway car opening up onto the platform and the hysterical deadlock of movement. The people waiting on the platform immediately swarm into the people leaving the car, and it's a 3-minute push-shove-stumble-push-argh-elbow-push-mutter-stumble before the people entering get past the people exiting. If there's one tradition I will thank British Empire for imparting to Americans, it's beauty of a queue.
posted by zoomorphic at 2:23 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Even though it was done by employees I'm almost still on their side. I don't know how common it is to have to deal with hysterical people like this, but I would have to say even once is too often."
Eh ... Well, I do IT/network support, and also tech support for an ISP. We had one customer - a married couple - react like this when we were trying to assist them with spam blocking. They did not want to learn anything, they just wanted us to "fix it." When I tried to explain it wasn't quite that simple, but that a solution might be possible if we could work together on it, they became angry, and then quickly became utterly hysterical when we couldn't just fix the problem instantly without their involvement. I tried to have them call my boss, but they started cursing at me and threatening me, so eventually I had to just hang up (I could still hear the screams). They came into the office a few minutes later and screamed at my boss for a whole five minutes (a lot longer than it sounds, if you're in that situation), and they never let him get in a word edgewise, and then they left in a huff, but everyone in the vicinity was just stunned. They came in and let loose all their anger and frustrations on my boss, basically. They never did get their problem resolved, but what can you do? Obviously, there was something else going on with them besides spam, but how can you deal with someone who has completely lost control and all perspective? He later told me that he was on my side on this one, and that's the first time he'd ever encountered anything like that. In a way, I wish someone had recorded it, but, honestly, I don't want to see those people again, not like that, even on a recording. It was sad and sort of pathetic, like the way this woman reacted, but with a huge amount of rage thrown in. Ah, tech support ...
posted by krinklyfig at 2:26 PM on March 5, 2009
Eh ... Well, I do IT/network support, and also tech support for an ISP. We had one customer - a married couple - react like this when we were trying to assist them with spam blocking. They did not want to learn anything, they just wanted us to "fix it." When I tried to explain it wasn't quite that simple, but that a solution might be possible if we could work together on it, they became angry, and then quickly became utterly hysterical when we couldn't just fix the problem instantly without their involvement. I tried to have them call my boss, but they started cursing at me and threatening me, so eventually I had to just hang up (I could still hear the screams). They came into the office a few minutes later and screamed at my boss for a whole five minutes (a lot longer than it sounds, if you're in that situation), and they never let him get in a word edgewise, and then they left in a huff, but everyone in the vicinity was just stunned. They came in and let loose all their anger and frustrations on my boss, basically. They never did get their problem resolved, but what can you do? Obviously, there was something else going on with them besides spam, but how can you deal with someone who has completely lost control and all perspective? He later told me that he was on my side on this one, and that's the first time he'd ever encountered anything like that. In a way, I wish someone had recorded it, but, honestly, I don't want to see those people again, not like that, even on a recording. It was sad and sort of pathetic, like the way this woman reacted, but with a huge amount of rage thrown in. Ah, tech support ...
posted by krinklyfig at 2:26 PM on March 5, 2009
Last time I flew home from the inaugural in January it sucked. They oversold the flight and gave up my seat but not my husbands. The airport personnel just stared back at me as if to see if I'd take it or if I'd throw a fit. I'm not a big confrontational personal at all but I argued a little and this one employee said if I gave her $20 she'd get me on the plane with my husband. (?!) After a while they were like - oh hey lady, we got your seat now - it was a total jerk off.
It's easy for me to see how people could get this this point of complete frustration and exhaustion and just LOSE IT at airports. Unfortunately bad behavior seems to get you what you want with this sort of stuff sometimes. More-so than being pleasant and agreeable. This lady got some upgrades and frequent flyer miles or something like that.
posted by dog food sugar at 2:29 PM on March 5, 2009
It's easy for me to see how people could get this this point of complete frustration and exhaustion and just LOSE IT at airports. Unfortunately bad behavior seems to get you what you want with this sort of stuff sometimes. More-so than being pleasant and agreeable. This lady got some upgrades and frequent flyer miles or something like that.
posted by dog food sugar at 2:29 PM on March 5, 2009
Why, she's exactly like Hitler!
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:39 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:39 PM on March 5, 2009
They came into the office a few minutes later and screamed at my boss for a whole five minutes (a lot longer than it sounds, if you're in that situation),
Oh yeah, I've been there. I used to run an Abuse department for a good sized ISP and I had to close a customer again for sending out spam. This was an ongoing repeat issue, and warnings had done nothing, so it was over, he was permanently banned. Of course, at the time, he didn't know that because he hadn't given me the opportunity to speak, the call started with him screaming at me at the top of his lungs for a good five minutes straight about how he was going to call his attorney, and the Better Business Bureau, my boss, and then a guy to come break my legs, in roughly that order.
The thing I remember most clearly was at one point, when I finally got a chance to speak, I said, "You are going to need to calm down and lower your voice if you want me to continue this conversation..." to which he responded "I AM NOT SCREAMING, I AM PERFECTLY CALM, YOU ARE THE ONE SHOUTING, REOPEN MY ACCOUNT RIGHT NOW, I AM NOT SCREAMING, WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT? WHEN I TALK WITH YOUR BOSS, YOU ARE GOING TO BE FIRED!" at a volume loud enough that my employees were able to clearly hear his voice coming out of my headset from across the room.
Some people you work with, you try to understand that they are frustrated and need help, and you do what you can once you get them calmed down.
Other people are just fucking nuts and you need to cut the cord. He was one of the latter.
The weird thing was that months later, I talked to his brother who was the exact same way, fielding a call from the both of them at the same time on a speaker-phone was nothing short of a nightmare I'll not soon forget.
posted by quin at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2009
Oh yeah, I've been there. I used to run an Abuse department for a good sized ISP and I had to close a customer again for sending out spam. This was an ongoing repeat issue, and warnings had done nothing, so it was over, he was permanently banned. Of course, at the time, he didn't know that because he hadn't given me the opportunity to speak, the call started with him screaming at me at the top of his lungs for a good five minutes straight about how he was going to call his attorney, and the Better Business Bureau, my boss, and then a guy to come break my legs, in roughly that order.
The thing I remember most clearly was at one point, when I finally got a chance to speak, I said, "You are going to need to calm down and lower your voice if you want me to continue this conversation..." to which he responded "I AM NOT SCREAMING, I AM PERFECTLY CALM, YOU ARE THE ONE SHOUTING, REOPEN MY ACCOUNT RIGHT NOW, I AM NOT SCREAMING, WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT? WHEN I TALK WITH YOUR BOSS, YOU ARE GOING TO BE FIRED!" at a volume loud enough that my employees were able to clearly hear his voice coming out of my headset from across the room.
Some people you work with, you try to understand that they are frustrated and need help, and you do what you can once you get them calmed down.
Other people are just fucking nuts and you need to cut the cord. He was one of the latter.
The weird thing was that months later, I talked to his brother who was the exact same way, fielding a call from the both of them at the same time on a speaker-phone was nothing short of a nightmare I'll not soon forget.
posted by quin at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2009
I understand what y'all mean, those of you speaking up for the employee. And I've done a couple tech support desk jobs (for pay, for family, &c.) and I know how ridiculous people can be.
Having said that, part of me wishes that this sort of thing happened more often--when customer service is bad, it is such a horrible feeling. These people have real power over your life and can be so blasé about it.
I'm not saying anything about this particular incident--perhaps the woman arrived far too late and there was nothing to be done, perhaps the person at the desk was kind and considerate, perhaps the woman just lost it for no reason.
But sometimes that isn't the case, and sometimes I really do think that violence is an acceptable response to inhumanity. And since uninterested indifference on the part of a customer service tech isn't really all that high on the "inhumanity" scale, I certainly don't think the violence should be physical. But screaming and yelling are sometimes appropriate responses.
posted by Squid Voltaire at 3:07 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Having said that, part of me wishes that this sort of thing happened more often--when customer service is bad, it is such a horrible feeling. These people have real power over your life and can be so blasé about it.
I'm not saying anything about this particular incident--perhaps the woman arrived far too late and there was nothing to be done, perhaps the person at the desk was kind and considerate, perhaps the woman just lost it for no reason.
But sometimes that isn't the case, and sometimes I really do think that violence is an acceptable response to inhumanity. And since uninterested indifference on the part of a customer service tech isn't really all that high on the "inhumanity" scale, I certainly don't think the violence should be physical. But screaming and yelling are sometimes appropriate responses.
posted by Squid Voltaire at 3:07 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That is the instinctive reaction, but this is pet training 101 stuff. You don't reward bad behavior. If you capitulate, all she has learned is that she can get what she wants by acting this way
This is the mantra of the bad customer service rep. Your job is to help people, not to teach them lessons.
posted by roll truck roll at 3:13 PM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
This is the mantra of the bad customer service rep. Your job is to help people, not to teach them lessons.
posted by roll truck roll at 3:13 PM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
"this one employee said if I gave her $20 she'd get me on the plane with my husband. "
Welcome to the Third World.
posted by mikelieman at 3:13 PM on March 5, 2009
Welcome to the Third World.
posted by mikelieman at 3:13 PM on March 5, 2009
Erm, but that's not to say that you're a bad customer service rep, quin.
posted by roll truck roll at 3:15 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by roll truck roll at 3:15 PM on March 5, 2009
Squid Voltaire, people lose it on customer service employees, with little to no provocation (as if there's really an excuse for such behavior) all the fucking time..
Customers have a lot of power over the lives of these employees. They have the power to condescend, degrade, and scream at people who are not allowed to defend themselves. That "uninterested indifference" you've noted, is something that customer service employees adopt to protect themselves from the third-grade antics they have to put up with everyday.
posted by Coatlicue at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Customers have a lot of power over the lives of these employees. They have the power to condescend, degrade, and scream at people who are not allowed to defend themselves. That "uninterested indifference" you've noted, is something that customer service employees adopt to protect themselves from the third-grade antics they have to put up with everyday.
posted by Coatlicue at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
In Australia we would just take another swig from the very big can of beer that each of us carries around at all times, attempt to fix the attendant with a drunken and wandering eye, then sway slightly until the police tapped us on the shoulder.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:21 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:21 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Panopticon is a cool word.
Good record too.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:24 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Good record too.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:24 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
The whole airline business can be a pretty unsettling one in any event. This one time I was going from Spain back to London, so I'm onboard, there's me putting my bag up in the cupboard, next thing ya know, I feel hands on me. Someone's touched me, touched my front...my front bottom. I can't believe it, I've gone all cold. I look around, he standing there isn't he? That steward with the guilty look on his face. I was shocked, I didn't know what to say. I had to sit down, I was that perturbed. Then his mate, the other one who was giving us all lessons on what we do if we land in the sea. How to wear your life jacket etc; He starts off, he starts looking at me all funny...suggestive. Now I don't know if they're wanting me for a twosome or something, I don't know how they work it. But I'll tell you what, it scared me. I was shaking like a leaf, so without thinking I lit up a cigarette to calm me nerves. I was trembling, I was very emotional and that when all the rest of it happened. It's very regrettable. Now, I don't want to kick up a fuss, right, press charges...contact the British embassy. I'd rather not pursue those channels, that's not my style. I'm not that sort of a bloke. I don't want the man to lose his job and I'm sure he's not representive of all you Spanish people. But I would appreciate it if you had a word with him, let him know he's been rumbled.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:31 PM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:31 PM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
This is the mantra of the bad customer service rep. Your job is to help people, not to teach them lessons.
So you help them after they calm down. But if you give them more than they should expect because they are screaming at you, then you are also teaching them (and potentially your other customers)--a very bad lesson that will help make the world a nastier place to live in.
I found a site with a fairly complete translation. The husband stands back, in obvious stress, while the older man (her father?) tries to calm her down. At the end her husband, even knowing what comes with speaking up, tells her to be reasonable, that she came to the gate late. She calls him stupid and tells him he should have gone on by himself--presumably to keep this all from happening.
While it might have worked---they might not have unloaded their bags from the plane since at least one of them was on the plane, so they might have given into her screaming and let her join her husband, more likely it wouldn't have. But the husband would then have had at least 12 rare calm relaxing hours to himself. Of course he would pay dearly later, but it would still be worth it.
of course I'm projecting a little here, but that's how it looks to me
posted by eye of newt at 3:32 PM on March 5, 2009
So you help them after they calm down. But if you give them more than they should expect because they are screaming at you, then you are also teaching them (and potentially your other customers)--a very bad lesson that will help make the world a nastier place to live in.
I found a site with a fairly complete translation. The husband stands back, in obvious stress, while the older man (her father?) tries to calm her down. At the end her husband, even knowing what comes with speaking up, tells her to be reasonable, that she came to the gate late. She calls him stupid and tells him he should have gone on by himself--presumably to keep this all from happening.
While it might have worked---they might not have unloaded their bags from the plane since at least one of them was on the plane, so they might have given into her screaming and let her join her husband, more likely it wouldn't have. But the husband would then have had at least 12 rare calm relaxing hours to himself. Of course he would pay dearly later, but it would still be worth it.
of course I'm projecting a little here, but that's how it looks to me
posted by eye of newt at 3:32 PM on March 5, 2009
Have we no compassion for this woman? Maybe she was on her way to her daughter's wedding, or to attend a funeral, or visit a dying relative. The assumption that she is a manipulative wobbly-thrower who deserves scorn is a kneejerk.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:34 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:34 PM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Turgid Dahlia, you're obviously a sexy beast.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:35 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:35 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Have we no compassion for this woman? Maybe she was on her way to her daughter's wedding, or to attend a funeral, or visit a dying relative. The assumption that she is a manipulative wobbly-thrower who deserves scorn is a kneejerk.
I would give her lots of compassion and sympathy if she was attending a wedding or funeral or a dying relative. Missing an important flight can be an extremely stressful event in the best of times.
But for her behavior at the airport? None.
None.
posted by eye of newt at 3:47 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I would give her lots of compassion and sympathy if she was attending a wedding or funeral or a dying relative. Missing an important flight can be an extremely stressful event in the best of times.
But for her behavior at the airport? None.
None.
posted by eye of newt at 3:47 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Ubu, quite frankly your attitude appals me. It's not what you're saying. It's all this stuff you're not saying. Insinnuendos.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:55 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:55 PM on March 5, 2009
Ubu, quite frankly your attitude appals me. It's not what you're saying. It's all this stuff you're not saying. Insinnuendos.
It was her reaction to her husband. I admit--it struck a personal nerve. Like I said, maybe I'm projecting my own demons onto the situation.
posted by eye of newt at 3:57 PM on March 5, 2009
It was her reaction to her husband. I admit--it struck a personal nerve. Like I said, maybe I'm projecting my own demons onto the situation.
posted by eye of newt at 3:57 PM on March 5, 2009
Have we no compassion for this woman? Maybe she was on her way to her daughter's wedding, or to attend a funeral, or visit a dying relative.
That was my first reaction upon seeing the video.
On the other hand, I travel by plane a fair amount for business and pleasure, and don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people who show up with only minutes to spare.
Especially for international flights, you really need to plan your trip to the airport with enough contingency up your sleeve to allow for things like flat tyres, taxis that don't show up, traffic jams, backtracking because you left your passport at home, overly long checkin queues, slow immigration clearance, and 1001 other things.
Often, the price you pay is to sit bored shitless for a couple of hours in the terminal, or to idly wander through duty free stores.
But late passengers who expect to get on board? They delay departures, with flow-on effects for the entire system. What if this woman caused the takeoff to be slotted in behind ten other flights that left the terminal on time (especially at a busy airport like HK), resulting in delays for hundreds of people, and missed connections at the other end?
If she can't sort her shit out to get to the airport with at least half an hour to spare, then fuck her. Seriously, fuck her. There's no reason for everybody else to be inconvenienced because she can't manage her own time with a modicum of common sense.
Of course, this doesn't apply if she was late because of a previous connecting flight being delayed, but chances are it might have been delayed by somebody just like her, anyway.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:00 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
That was my first reaction upon seeing the video.
On the other hand, I travel by plane a fair amount for business and pleasure, and don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people who show up with only minutes to spare.
Especially for international flights, you really need to plan your trip to the airport with enough contingency up your sleeve to allow for things like flat tyres, taxis that don't show up, traffic jams, backtracking because you left your passport at home, overly long checkin queues, slow immigration clearance, and 1001 other things.
Often, the price you pay is to sit bored shitless for a couple of hours in the terminal, or to idly wander through duty free stores.
But late passengers who expect to get on board? They delay departures, with flow-on effects for the entire system. What if this woman caused the takeoff to be slotted in behind ten other flights that left the terminal on time (especially at a busy airport like HK), resulting in delays for hundreds of people, and missed connections at the other end?
If she can't sort her shit out to get to the airport with at least half an hour to spare, then fuck her. Seriously, fuck her. There's no reason for everybody else to be inconvenienced because she can't manage her own time with a modicum of common sense.
Of course, this doesn't apply if she was late because of a previous connecting flight being delayed, but chances are it might have been delayed by somebody just like her, anyway.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:00 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
turgo, if you must write mefi comments, the words you use should be your own. don't plagiarise or take on loan. there's always someone, somewhere, with a big nose who knows, who'll trip you up and laugh as you fall.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:03 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:03 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Like I said, maybe I'm projecting my own demons onto the situation.
I think so my friend, as you're not Ubu :P
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:14 PM on March 5, 2009
I think so my friend, as you're not Ubu :P
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:14 PM on March 5, 2009
oops
posted by eye of newt at 4:20 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by eye of newt at 4:20 PM on March 5, 2009
Warning...lots of assumptions and extrapolations to follow. But educated ones.
The lady is speaking cantonese but with a heavy mainland accent. All her behaviour and mannerisms peg her as a spoiled nouveaux riche housewife who sleeps until noon and then plays mahjong late into the night. At one point she even complains that, since she shows up late all the time for flights in Shenzen (China's defacto manufacturing capital) and it's never caused her problems before, how dare they leave without her? Her spineless husband behaves like a complete wimp -- trying to soothe her rather than calling her on her bullshit. She reminds me of too many fat, lazy, wealthy aunts in my extended family.
Fuck her.
posted by randomstriker at 4:40 PM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
The lady is speaking cantonese but with a heavy mainland accent. All her behaviour and mannerisms peg her as a spoiled nouveaux riche housewife who sleeps until noon and then plays mahjong late into the night. At one point she even complains that, since she shows up late all the time for flights in Shenzen (China's defacto manufacturing capital) and it's never caused her problems before, how dare they leave without her? Her spineless husband behaves like a complete wimp -- trying to soothe her rather than calling her on her bullshit. She reminds me of too many fat, lazy, wealthy aunts in my extended family.
Fuck her.
posted by randomstriker at 4:40 PM on March 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
Only wrong that he posted it to the web, not the actual filming. What if she became violent? Video evidence would've been useful. And, I'll go out on a limb and say that posting it to the web wasn't completely terrible. We should all be wary of the Panopticon and try to not lose control lest the external conscience shame us afterwards.
Galloping along to the surveillance state we go. External conscience?! Is this self-parody? What happened to conscience as "the still, small voice"? It isn't external conscience she faces, but rather eternal exposure. You must know this since you used the word, but I'll say it anyway. The word 'Panopticon' comes from the design of prisons. It is criminals who have forsaken the right to freely determine their actions and so are placed under constant supervision. It's existence is, in part, an affront to the prisoners; not something to generalize to the larger, civilian world, not even figuratively.
Whether the airline had cause to film this or not is a separate issue. But there is no reason to post this except to make a spectacle out of someone. I suppose an argument could be made that humiliation can be a great spur to change, and that realizing one's own behavior is entertainment to the crowd is the only way some people will get a clue. Maybe so, I'm not arguing it; the final effects of publicizing the behavior are of no interest. Looking for opportunities to laugh at people who have abandoned their own dignity is a cheap way to feel superior; it's mean spirited and base.
Compassion doesn't mean moving heaven and earth to cater to her. It just means seeing her as something more than her worst behavior, and not as an opportunity to sneer and snicker.
posted by BigSky at 4:53 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Galloping along to the surveillance state we go. External conscience?! Is this self-parody? What happened to conscience as "the still, small voice"? It isn't external conscience she faces, but rather eternal exposure. You must know this since you used the word, but I'll say it anyway. The word 'Panopticon' comes from the design of prisons. It is criminals who have forsaken the right to freely determine their actions and so are placed under constant supervision. It's existence is, in part, an affront to the prisoners; not something to generalize to the larger, civilian world, not even figuratively.
Whether the airline had cause to film this or not is a separate issue. But there is no reason to post this except to make a spectacle out of someone. I suppose an argument could be made that humiliation can be a great spur to change, and that realizing one's own behavior is entertainment to the crowd is the only way some people will get a clue. Maybe so, I'm not arguing it; the final effects of publicizing the behavior are of no interest. Looking for opportunities to laugh at people who have abandoned their own dignity is a cheap way to feel superior; it's mean spirited and base.
Compassion doesn't mean moving heaven and earth to cater to her. It just means seeing her as something more than her worst behavior, and not as an opportunity to sneer and snicker.
posted by BigSky at 4:53 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Where's the Vancouver RCMP? Seriously not funny in any way, Alvy Ampersand.
posted by jokeefe at 4:56 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 4:56 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
The assumption that she is a manipulative wobbly-thrower who deserves scorn is a kneejerk.
Way I see it, there are basically three possibilities:
Way I see it, there are basically three possibilities:
- She is a sane, rational, competent adult. In which case, she should be mocked and criticized for the benefit of humanity as a whole.
- She is mentally handicapped, or suffering from some kind of psychological disorder. In which case, many of us will look like idiots and feel like jerks and deserve it.
- Die Hard 4, only without Samuel Jackson.
This is why I hate going to the airport. The most melodramatic, ridiculous sides of people always tend to come out.
posted by buzzdiggity at 5:07 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by buzzdiggity at 5:07 PM on March 5, 2009
Like I said, maybe I'm projecting my own demons onto the situation.
I think so my friend, as you're not Ubu :P
He's Mr. Rowntree. Yes! Yes! I won't let you be happy, why should I!
posted by jokeefe at 5:17 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think so my friend, as you're not Ubu :P
He's Mr. Rowntree. Yes! Yes! I won't let you be happy, why should I!
posted by jokeefe at 5:17 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I live in Hong Kong.
Arriving two hours ahead of departure time is a safe window; anything less could be problematic, especially on busy days. And so many times I've been at the airport and have heard umpteen announcements of impending flights. If she was in the airport as she should have been she wouldn't have been charging toward the gate at the last minute.
Local news was quick to point out that she travels regularly between HK and San Francisco, so she knows better.
As for throwing oneself on the ground, kicking and screaming like a two-year-old, the only time I've seen it is when someone has just learned that someone they love has died. Overwhelming grief is understandable, this woman's reaction was not.
One of the things she said was: "This is inhumane ... what am I going to do?"
I have a suggestion: get to airport on time, ya spoiled brat.
posted by bwg at 5:22 PM on March 5, 2009
Arriving two hours ahead of departure time is a safe window; anything less could be problematic, especially on busy days. And so many times I've been at the airport and have heard umpteen announcements of impending flights. If she was in the airport as she should have been she wouldn't have been charging toward the gate at the last minute.
Local news was quick to point out that she travels regularly between HK and San Francisco, so she knows better.
As for throwing oneself on the ground, kicking and screaming like a two-year-old, the only time I've seen it is when someone has just learned that someone they love has died. Overwhelming grief is understandable, this woman's reaction was not.
One of the things she said was: "This is inhumane ... what am I going to do?"
I have a suggestion: get to airport on time, ya spoiled brat.
posted by bwg at 5:22 PM on March 5, 2009
My friend just suggested another possibility:
"She is just mad because Phil Keoghan is now going to say "Mr Chow, Mrs Chow....you are the last team to arrive". Little does she know, this episode does not turn out to be an elimination round."
posted by Extopalopaketle at 5:24 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
"She is just mad because Phil Keoghan is now going to say "Mr Chow, Mrs Chow....you are the last team to arrive". Little does she know, this episode does not turn out to be an elimination round."
posted by Extopalopaketle at 5:24 PM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also, from the unlinkable South China Morning Post:
posted by bwg at 5:27 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
... returned to Hong Kong with her husband last week and spent about four hours in a meeting with Cathay Pacific customer relations executives complaining about the YouTube broadcast.Evidently being a brat pays off.
"She was surprisingly quiet and dignified in the meeting," an airport source said. "She didn't raise her voice once and kept very calm as she explained how much embarrassment the YouTube video had caused her. She said that all her friends and family had seen it."
A Cathay Pacific spokeswoman said last night that the woman and her husband had not sought compensation, but said they had been given upgrades to business class on their next flight to San Francisco as a "gesture of goodwill".
The couple would also receive reimbursement of the air miles they had used for seat upgrades on recent journeys with Cathay, she said.
[ ... ]
"We have conveyed the findings of our inquiry to the passenger concerned and her family, and have issued an apology for the inconvenience and embarrassment she may have suffered as a result.
posted by bwg at 5:27 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
The video was appalling. But this woman may have some mental condition, so for an employee of the airline to put it on YouTube, followed by dozens and dozens of showing by the cables, seems to me to be a bit cruel. Could be she's just spoiled but I found it painful to watch, not humorous.
Speaking of behavior in China, the crowding in airport bathrooms was appalling. People shoved their way to the door of stalls and previous occupants had to push their way out. When I flew from Anhui province to Guangzhou, I was struck by the change in conversational tone, as we went from primarily Mandarin to Cantonese. The conversations in Guanzhou seemed louder and angrier but I attributed it to the change in language (I don't speak either one.) But maybe the Guanzhou airport is just crazier, I don't know.
posted by etaoin at 6:23 PM on March 5, 2009
Speaking of behavior in China, the crowding in airport bathrooms was appalling. People shoved their way to the door of stalls and previous occupants had to push their way out. When I flew from Anhui province to Guangzhou, I was struck by the change in conversational tone, as we went from primarily Mandarin to Cantonese. The conversations in Guanzhou seemed louder and angrier but I attributed it to the change in language (I don't speak either one.) But maybe the Guanzhou airport is just crazier, I don't know.
posted by etaoin at 6:23 PM on March 5, 2009
Cantonese is all yelling, all the time.
posted by chunking express at 7:46 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by chunking express at 7:46 PM on March 5, 2009
feh. See Lai wannabe.
posted by captaincrouton at 7:47 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by captaincrouton at 7:47 PM on March 5, 2009
I had a similar reaction when Felicity cut her hair.
posted by HotPatatta at 8:08 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by HotPatatta at 8:08 PM on March 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I like to watch.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:40 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:40 PM on March 5, 2009
Did she have a point? The two translations I read above: "The plane is still here the gates are still open this is crazy" type thing. Despite her behaviour it sounds like a fair gripe to me.
I have heard first hand stories where they let people on late, gosh, even make the plane wait a whole 60 seconds while some last minute Charlie dashes on. [But that might have been domestic, not international?]
/I don't travel much by air. Haven't travelled by air post 9/11.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:51 PM on March 5, 2009
I have heard first hand stories where they let people on late, gosh, even make the plane wait a whole 60 seconds while some last minute Charlie dashes on. [But that might have been domestic, not international?]
/I don't travel much by air. Haven't travelled by air post 9/11.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:51 PM on March 5, 2009
I have heard first hand stories where they let people on late, gosh, even make the plane wait a whole 60 seconds while some last minute Charlie dashes on.
It happened to me on my most recent flight back from SE Asia.
A completely packed 747 waited patiently for around 15 minutes because they were "trying to locate a couple of passengers lost in the terminal".
Eventually, two teenaged glamour princesses sheepishly tiptoed the gauntlet of hundreds of annoyed passengers who were staring daggers at them & their dozens of shopping bags filled with duty free goods.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:44 PM on March 5, 2009
It happened to me on my most recent flight back from SE Asia.
A completely packed 747 waited patiently for around 15 minutes because they were "trying to locate a couple of passengers lost in the terminal".
Eventually, two teenaged glamour princesses sheepishly tiptoed the gauntlet of hundreds of annoyed passengers who were staring daggers at them & their dozens of shopping bags filled with duty free goods.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:44 PM on March 5, 2009
The lady is speaking cantonese but with a heavy mainland accent.
That was my girlfriend's conclusion as well. Not a lot of love for China-born women from ex-pat Chinese women in these parts, especially if the China-born women exhibit signs of being tai-tai-like.
posted by the cydonian at 10:48 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That was my girlfriend's conclusion as well. Not a lot of love for China-born women from ex-pat Chinese women in these parts, especially if the China-born women exhibit signs of being tai-tai-like.
posted by the cydonian at 10:48 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Seriously not funny in any way, Alvy Ampersand.
Oddly enough that's how I sign all my correspondence.
I was torn on hitting post for that one. In all sincerity, no disrespect to Mr. Dziekanski or his mother was intended. Disrespect for that wretched woman and those worthless cops, however...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:55 PM on March 5, 2009
Oddly enough that's how I sign all my correspondence.
I was torn on hitting post for that one. In all sincerity, no disrespect to Mr. Dziekanski or his mother was intended. Disrespect for that wretched woman and those worthless cops, however...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:55 PM on March 5, 2009
I don't like stuff like this. I'm not a fan of the idea that any one of us can be involuntary turned into an entertainment product subject to viewers' assumptions and prejudices. We're generally overly confident that video tells us the whole truth, but as ataoin mentioned, this could have been someone who is mentally ill, or someone who is having some kind of bad reaction to medication, or any other number of tragedy- or pathology-influenced factors that could account for why someone would have such an extreme reaction--far beyond that which we revile in the run-of-the-mill asshole.
I go back and forth on shows like Airport that show bad customer behavior. On the one hand, it's useful for people to see how their poor behavior looks in public (though, frankly, like 99% of people behave decently a majority of the time). On the other, many of us have experienced incredible frustration at the overpricing, poor service, and poor organization at the hands of an industry--particularly at the local level--that has little incentive to please the transient customer; in terms of customer service, often they don't care, and often they pretty much don't need to. Once you are in an airport, you are not only essentially captive to whatever kind of experience they are going to throw at you, but there's the added bonus of their contempt and condemnation when you don't weather their challenges gracefully. Amongst the range of human interaction, air travel can test the limits of even the most amiable-minded.
That's not to say I'm a fan of people who don't know how to behave in public, particularly people who are so self-involved as to assume their comfort takes precedence over the larger needs of mass transportation; nor do I particularly like how customer service can often (though understandably) cater to such dicks, essentially rewarding and reinforcing their behavior. But I think any of us has the right to be upset at being exploited this way, particularly when done by someone within a company you have hired.
posted by troybob at 12:37 AM on March 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
I go back and forth on shows like Airport that show bad customer behavior. On the one hand, it's useful for people to see how their poor behavior looks in public (though, frankly, like 99% of people behave decently a majority of the time). On the other, many of us have experienced incredible frustration at the overpricing, poor service, and poor organization at the hands of an industry--particularly at the local level--that has little incentive to please the transient customer; in terms of customer service, often they don't care, and often they pretty much don't need to. Once you are in an airport, you are not only essentially captive to whatever kind of experience they are going to throw at you, but there's the added bonus of their contempt and condemnation when you don't weather their challenges gracefully. Amongst the range of human interaction, air travel can test the limits of even the most amiable-minded.
That's not to say I'm a fan of people who don't know how to behave in public, particularly people who are so self-involved as to assume their comfort takes precedence over the larger needs of mass transportation; nor do I particularly like how customer service can often (though understandably) cater to such dicks, essentially rewarding and reinforcing their behavior. But I think any of us has the right to be upset at being exploited this way, particularly when done by someone within a company you have hired.
posted by troybob at 12:37 AM on March 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
When I was a kid and used to behave badly, my mother would say, "If only I had a video camera now and you could see yourself." Well...
posted by Elmore at 1:05 AM on March 6, 2009
posted by Elmore at 1:05 AM on March 6, 2009
Not a lot of love for China-born women from ex-pat Chinese women in these parts, especially if the China-born women exhibit signs of being tai-tai-like
It's not so much about where you were born, but rather the politics of old-money (with all their trappings) vs new money (and their thinly veiled uncouthness). The chinese diaspora often fall into the former category, and mainlanders into the latter.
posted by randomstriker at 2:10 AM on March 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
It's not so much about where you were born, but rather the politics of old-money (with all their trappings) vs new money (and their thinly veiled uncouthness). The chinese diaspora often fall into the former category, and mainlanders into the latter.
posted by randomstriker at 2:10 AM on March 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Is this a cultural thing?
I was just shoved -- and I mean *shoved* -- aside by a scrum of 4 middle-aged Chinese women in very expensive clothes and jewelry trying to board a flight in Chicago and waiting patiently in line with my zone compadres. Once on board, these same women pushed -- hard -- past people *already* in front of them in the narrow aisle, luggage and all, to get to their seats. It was as if there were not going to be enough seats and whoever was left standing was going to be taken outside and shot. I didn't really care, but I did wonder how they'd behave if we had an inflight emergency requiring an orderly exit. The largest of these women was leading the charge, and literally shoving people aside like a linebacker, shoulder first. It was rather shocking. The flight wasn't even close to full.
If I'd had the sense to videotape it, I would have posted it to YouTube too. Airports are mind-numbing suckfests of bullshit security theater and officiousness and incompetence, but it doesn't help if you act like a dick to people who are just trying to get out of there the same way you are.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:29 AM on March 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I was just shoved -- and I mean *shoved* -- aside by a scrum of 4 middle-aged Chinese women in very expensive clothes and jewelry trying to board a flight in Chicago and waiting patiently in line with my zone compadres. Once on board, these same women pushed -- hard -- past people *already* in front of them in the narrow aisle, luggage and all, to get to their seats. It was as if there were not going to be enough seats and whoever was left standing was going to be taken outside and shot. I didn't really care, but I did wonder how they'd behave if we had an inflight emergency requiring an orderly exit. The largest of these women was leading the charge, and literally shoving people aside like a linebacker, shoulder first. It was rather shocking. The flight wasn't even close to full.
If I'd had the sense to videotape it, I would have posted it to YouTube too. Airports are mind-numbing suckfests of bullshit security theater and officiousness and incompetence, but it doesn't help if you act like a dick to people who are just trying to get out of there the same way you are.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:29 AM on March 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I was just shoved -- and I mean *shoved* -- aside ...
This happens a lot when I'm waiting for trains in Hong Kong. It used to piss me off.
Now if I see someone acting like a dick (not letting other passengers alight first) by trying to make an end run around me I just stiff-arm them or block their way.
To hell with them if they don't like it, and maybe, just maybe, some will actually learn some manners.
posted by bwg at 4:52 AM on March 6, 2009
This happens a lot when I'm waiting for trains in Hong Kong. It used to piss me off.
Now if I see someone acting like a dick (not letting other passengers alight first) by trying to make an end run around me I just stiff-arm them or block their way.
To hell with them if they don't like it, and maybe, just maybe, some will actually learn some manners.
posted by bwg at 4:52 AM on March 6, 2009
When did airlines shift to boarding by "zones" rather than seat numbers? I hadn't flown for a very long time until two weekends ago and was surprised by the terminology. I was glad (sarcasm) to see that airlines continue to seat the people in the front first, meaning those in the middle and end have to wait for them. I suppose there's a logic to it, since they all do it but does anyone know why?
posted by etaoin at 4:56 AM on March 6, 2009
posted by etaoin at 4:56 AM on March 6, 2009
etaoin, every flight I've been on in the past 5 years that's had more than 15 rows will seat first the 1st-class, followed by the back half of the plane, followed by the front half. What are you flying that this isn't normal?
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:14 AM on March 6, 2009
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:14 AM on March 6, 2009
Haven't we all wanted to do that at an airport? I mean, is there a more soul-sucking place on the planet?
Been here long?
This is why I hate going to the airport. The most melodramatic, ridiculous sides of people always tend to come out.
Been here long?
Saddening and surprising (if me being naive) to see all the "total batshit psycho," "brat," etc., and the general ugly tone toward this woman.
Feels well within the realm of possibility that the woman has mental-health problems, problem with blood-sugar or some such.
But nooooooooooooo. Burn the Witch!!
Nthing "Looking for opportunities to laugh at people who have abandoned their own dignity is a cheap way to feel superior; it's mean spirited and base.
Compassion doesn't mean moving heaven and earth to cater to her. It just means seeing her as something more than her worst behavior, and not as an opportunity to sneer and snicker."
I could be wrong and it could be my projection, it could have to do with upheaval a lot of people are experiencing these days or who knows what, but to these eyes, this is another of too many examples of a darker, snottier, colder tone 'round here.
posted by ambient2 at 12:02 PM on March 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Been here long?
This is why I hate going to the airport. The most melodramatic, ridiculous sides of people always tend to come out.
Been here long?
Saddening and surprising (if me being naive) to see all the "total batshit psycho," "brat," etc., and the general ugly tone toward this woman.
Feels well within the realm of possibility that the woman has mental-health problems, problem with blood-sugar or some such.
But nooooooooooooo. Burn the Witch!!
Nthing "Looking for opportunities to laugh at people who have abandoned their own dignity is a cheap way to feel superior; it's mean spirited and base.
Compassion doesn't mean moving heaven and earth to cater to her. It just means seeing her as something more than her worst behavior, and not as an opportunity to sneer and snicker."
I could be wrong and it could be my projection, it could have to do with upheaval a lot of people are experiencing these days or who knows what, but to these eyes, this is another of too many examples of a darker, snottier, colder tone 'round here.
posted by ambient2 at 12:02 PM on March 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
etaoin, every flight I've been on in the past 5 years that's had more than 15 rows will seat first the 1st-class, followed by the back half of the plane, followed by the front half. What are you flying that this isn't normal?
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:14 AM on March 6 [+] [!]
Hi, I was on two Delta flights in each direction, which did first class, then called zones but in numerical order, so that the last rows--including ours--were the last ones called. Which makes no sense to me. The first time, I thought it was an aberration but it continued.
posted by etaoin at 12:58 PM on March 6, 2009
And, as I said earlier, I hadn't flown for a while but I did notice what seemed to be a decline in passenger behavior. One of the more entertaining aspects was watching people struggle to rearrange their stuff in the overhead compartments, try to pretend no one else needed the room by closing the bins even though there was still empty space, people who seemed deliberately to sit in the wrong seats and, the capper, the woman who literally broke the bin door by trying to jam her hard computer case into the bin, and then walked back and forth across three seats, trying to arrange her other things. And she, too, was in the wrong seat. I think the whole idiotic security system and impersonal tone of the airport brings out the worst in many people.
posted by etaoin at 1:04 PM on March 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by etaoin at 1:04 PM on March 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
And I'm both pleased and repulsed at how adept I've become in taking out/off the laptop/liquids baggie/shoes/belt/blackberry/etc in a few seconds and moving through the scanning station like an obedient herd animal.
Shit, me too. I know exactly which personal items will & will not set off the xray, and remove those ahead of time in the taxi and stash them in a pocket of my carryon wheelie bag. My laptop is packed for instantaneous removal from its bag (cables etc stashed elsewhere so as not to get in the way), the lappie has distinctive stickers so there's no confusion as to who owns which one on the far side of the xray, and so on.
For some unknown reason, though, I persist in wearing steelcapped brogues that I have to remove, but I guess I just like clinging to the idea of kicking late arriving passengers in the head with them.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:40 PM on March 6, 2009
Shit, me too. I know exactly which personal items will & will not set off the xray, and remove those ahead of time in the taxi and stash them in a pocket of my carryon wheelie bag. My laptop is packed for instantaneous removal from its bag (cables etc stashed elsewhere so as not to get in the way), the lappie has distinctive stickers so there's no confusion as to who owns which one on the far side of the xray, and so on.
For some unknown reason, though, I persist in wearing steelcapped brogues that I have to remove, but I guess I just like clinging to the idea of kicking late arriving passengers in the head with them.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:40 PM on March 6, 2009
Funnily enough, I have this etched metal credit-card sized kwan yin / heart sutra thingy in my wallet, which would make a pretty tidy weapon if I were to file down an edge to razor sharpness. Nobody has ever asked me what that metal thing in my wallet is.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:30 PM on March 6, 2009
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:30 PM on March 6, 2009
awesome. i'll take my vajra dagger on board next time.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:37 PM on March 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:37 PM on March 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think the whole idiotic security system and impersonal tone of the airport brings out the worst in many people.
I actually like the Hobbesian character of the experience. When everyone else is a jerk, it's easy to convince yourself that you don't owe them anything, that you're in it only for yourself, trying to win the war of all against all. It's all about taking the wrong line to skip people through security, dueling with your unwieldy luggage, getting on the plane ahead of your seat, etc.
posted by grobstein at 4:02 PM on March 6, 2009
I actually like the Hobbesian character of the experience. When everyone else is a jerk, it's easy to convince yourself that you don't owe them anything, that you're in it only for yourself, trying to win the war of all against all. It's all about taking the wrong line to skip people through security, dueling with your unwieldy luggage, getting on the plane ahead of your seat, etc.
posted by grobstein at 4:02 PM on March 6, 2009
lizarrd: Ok, the truth now... it really only takes four keypresses to bring up information on the computer terminal, right? You just slam around on the keyboard for a full minute for effect, right? - odinsdream
Well, true and not true. Depends on what part of the system they're logged onto etc. Really, most airline employees that do the computer stuff aren't necessarily the best at it when at the gate. The most competent employees I've ever seen are those that work at the baggage claim offices. They MUST be able to handle screaming customers AND type quickly and efficiently. Sometimes though, if you're pressing the issue too much we will take our time because we know the next flight will be in a while anyways.
Also
Customers have a lot of power over the lives of these employees. They have the power to condescend, degrade, and scream at people who are not allowed to defend themselves. That "uninterested indifference" you've noted, is something that customer service employees adopt to protect themselves from the third-grade antics they have to put up with everyday. - Squid Voltaire
It is undeniably true. I tried to care for everyone for too long, but it wasted too much energy and by the end of my shift I just stopped caring AT ALL for anyone. Now, I just do the "uninterested indifference" unless there's a particularly shocking case or I'm the only one that can help them and they're being friendly. Particularly, I'm one of the few fully fluent Spanish and competent Italian speakers in my airport, so I am called upon regularly to interpret whenever anyone passes by that doesn't speak decent English. Some of us love to help people, but sometimes people just don't want to be helped.
posted by lizarrd at 6:51 PM on March 6, 2009
Well, true and not true. Depends on what part of the system they're logged onto etc. Really, most airline employees that do the computer stuff aren't necessarily the best at it when at the gate. The most competent employees I've ever seen are those that work at the baggage claim offices. They MUST be able to handle screaming customers AND type quickly and efficiently. Sometimes though, if you're pressing the issue too much we will take our time because we know the next flight will be in a while anyways.
Also
Customers have a lot of power over the lives of these employees. They have the power to condescend, degrade, and scream at people who are not allowed to defend themselves. That "uninterested indifference" you've noted, is something that customer service employees adopt to protect themselves from the third-grade antics they have to put up with everyday. - Squid Voltaire
It is undeniably true. I tried to care for everyone for too long, but it wasted too much energy and by the end of my shift I just stopped caring AT ALL for anyone. Now, I just do the "uninterested indifference" unless there's a particularly shocking case or I'm the only one that can help them and they're being friendly. Particularly, I'm one of the few fully fluent Spanish and competent Italian speakers in my airport, so I am called upon regularly to interpret whenever anyone passes by that doesn't speak decent English. Some of us love to help people, but sometimes people just don't want to be helped.
posted by lizarrd at 6:51 PM on March 6, 2009
« Older Click Track Detector | Can we dare call it stolen, yet? Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by hifiparasol at 11:20 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]