To Know Him is To Love Him
April 14, 2009 8:26 AM Subscribe
Six Years after the murder of Lana Clarkson, Phil Spector has been found guilty. (previously)
Known as much for his violent behavior as his incredible productions, Spector was notorious for previously pulling guns on both The Ramones and Leonard Cohen. The first time he was tried it ended in a mistrial when jurors couldn't come to a consensus on his guilt. He will be sentenced on May 29th
Known as much for his violent behavior as his incredible productions, Spector was notorious for previously pulling guns on both The Ramones and Leonard Cohen. The first time he was tried it ended in a mistrial when jurors couldn't come to a consensus on his guilt. He will be sentenced on May 29th
He'll love the Wall Of Sound in prison!!
posted by spicynuts at 8:29 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by spicynuts at 8:29 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Quincy Jones followed by aunt home from the grocery store once. Not really.
posted by punkfloyd at 8:35 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by punkfloyd at 8:35 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
> Stalked and pulled a gun on my gf once.
This is not a one sentence story.
posted by christonabike at 8:37 AM on April 14, 2009 [47 favorites]
This is not a one sentence story.
posted by christonabike at 8:37 AM on April 14, 2009 [47 favorites]
"The prosecutors argued that this fit a pattern of Mr. Spector’s drinking and threatening women with guns over decades."
This strikes me as one of those kinds of patterns which, once identified, maybe should have been intervened upon...
"Hey Phil, I don't want to be a downer or anything, but you know those half dozen or so women you pulled a gun on in a drunken fury? Yeah, we're kind of thinking that is, just maybe, a warning sign that we should, you know, get you into a drinking program, and maybe lock your guns up.
Just a thought."
posted by quin at 8:37 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
This strikes me as one of those kinds of patterns which, once identified, maybe should have been intervened upon...
"Hey Phil, I don't want to be a downer or anything, but you know those half dozen or so women you pulled a gun on in a drunken fury? Yeah, we're kind of thinking that is, just maybe, a warning sign that we should, you know, get you into a drinking program, and maybe lock your guns up.
Just a thought."
posted by quin at 8:37 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
Wrote and produced a million-selling #1 hit by the age of 17.
A sad ending to a remarkable life.
posted by Joe Beese at 8:38 AM on April 14, 2009
A sad ending to a remarkable life.
posted by Joe Beese at 8:38 AM on April 14, 2009
I guess I didn't know much about Phil Spector at all.
Can anyone recommend highlight albums?
posted by fuq at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2009
Can anyone recommend highlight albums?
posted by fuq at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2009
I know this seems like it's good news now, but I want you all to reflect upon what could happen if the California justice system continues this alarming trend of finding obviously guilty celebrities guilty.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2009 [12 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2009 [12 favorites]
seconding christonabike, zambrano. dish.
posted by barrett caulk at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by barrett caulk at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
You may not know him by name, but you've heard a lot of his songs
posted by orville sash at 8:42 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by orville sash at 8:42 AM on April 14, 2009
fuq: "Can anyone recommend highlight albums?"
The box set Back to Mono is definitive.
posted by Joe Beese at 8:45 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
The box set Back to Mono is definitive.
posted by Joe Beese at 8:45 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
During the first trial, I was serving on a jury for another murder case, and Spector (with his entourage) would often come to our floor during recess (our floor had the snack bar). Once, as he was heading into the bathroom, I managed to make eye contact with him, and goddamn, what a creepy fucker. I think I could have found him guilty on that alone.
posted by malocchio at 8:45 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by malocchio at 8:45 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
One hit wonder.
posted by klangklangston at 8:49 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 8:49 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
malocchio: were you able to figure out what's up with The Hair? I mean, is it a wig, or an elaborately styled wig, or what?
Anyway, as I said in metachat: Phil Spector's a fucker, and not just for the overproduction on Let it Be. The only thing surprising about him murdering Lana Clarkson was that it took him that long to actually kill someone. He and his genius can rot.
posted by scody at 8:50 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Anyway, as I said in metachat: Phil Spector's a fucker, and not just for the overproduction on Let it Be. The only thing surprising about him murdering Lana Clarkson was that it took him that long to actually kill someone. He and his genius can rot.
posted by scody at 8:50 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
(er, that should have been "an elaborately styled WEAVE." But perhaps there's a difference between a plain ol' wig and an elaborately styled one.)
posted by scody at 8:51 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by scody at 8:51 AM on April 14, 2009
You all don't know the ballad of The Day Phil Spector Pulled a Gun on Zambrano's Girlfriend? Well settle in and prepare for a tale.
It all started at the vitamin store....
posted by DU at 8:54 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
It all started at the vitamin store....
posted by DU at 8:54 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
I liked seeing him sing in that Lennon documentary that came out a couple of years ago. It's funny because there are lots of shots of him at the control board but he NEVER speaks. Then all of a sudden he's singing harmonies with Lennon. weird.
posted by spicynuts at 8:55 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by spicynuts at 8:55 AM on April 14, 2009
He's in Easy Rider as the drug pusher.
I prefer to imagine the insane woman stalking murderer is not the same man who wrote To Know Him Is To Love Him.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:59 AM on April 14, 2009
I prefer to imagine the insane woman stalking murderer is not the same man who wrote To Know Him Is To Love Him.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:59 AM on April 14, 2009
You may have also seen him in Easy Rider and not realized it. Here's a shot of him from the film.
What a life this guy led.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 9:00 AM on April 14, 2009
What a life this guy led.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 9:00 AM on April 14, 2009
scody - The hair looked real, but it was in the floppy stage by the time I saw him, not the awesomely grotesque Phil-fro (Phro?) that he used to sport. I never saw him wearing a jacket without tails (during the daytime, no less!) and he always wore three-inch platform shoes.
posted by malocchio at 9:00 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by malocchio at 9:00 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Curse you, Astro Zombie!
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 9:01 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 9:01 AM on April 14, 2009
chained melody
posted by pyramid termite at 9:02 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:02 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
The hair is fake. Dominic Dunne talks about it in his Vanity Fair column occasionally. Actually, I'm eager to hear Dunne's take on the conviction.
posted by spicynuts at 9:04 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by spicynuts at 9:04 AM on April 14, 2009
Spector was a douchebag back in the day, just as he is one now. Routinely screamed & threatened musicians and artists if they dared challenge him, insisted that musicians stay and play for 8, 10 or 12 hours straight without a break, pulled guns in the studio on people who disagreed with him, etc etc etc.
He fired a gun into the ceiling of a control room one time during an argument with John Lennon. Lennon yelled back at him, "kill me if you want, but leave the ears alone! I need them to work."
His "genius" consisted of shoving more and more people into a room until something interesting happened with the sound. He destroyed more songs than he made. Glyn Johns (producer of The Rolling Stones, The Who, etc etc) characterized his work on "Let It Be" as "garbage" and "utter puke".
Geoff Emerick, the Beatles long-time engineer, and George Martin were stunned to find that Spector had ERASED a crucial McCartney vocal on one track (one that McCartney had agonized over for days to get right) so he could add more strings.
Good fucking riddance, asshole.
posted by Aquaman at 9:05 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
He fired a gun into the ceiling of a control room one time during an argument with John Lennon. Lennon yelled back at him, "kill me if you want, but leave the ears alone! I need them to work."
His "genius" consisted of shoving more and more people into a room until something interesting happened with the sound. He destroyed more songs than he made. Glyn Johns (producer of The Rolling Stones, The Who, etc etc) characterized his work on "Let It Be" as "garbage" and "utter puke".
Geoff Emerick, the Beatles long-time engineer, and George Martin were stunned to find that Spector had ERASED a crucial McCartney vocal on one track (one that McCartney had agonized over for days to get right) so he could add more strings.
Good fucking riddance, asshole.
posted by Aquaman at 9:05 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
The hair is fake.
Well, goddamn. I've never been good at spotting the fakes.
I'll bet that blonde girl hanging around probably wasn't all natural either, but that one was pretty obvious, even down the hall.
posted by malocchio at 9:07 AM on April 14, 2009
Well, goddamn. I've never been good at spotting the fakes.
I'll bet that blonde girl hanging around probably wasn't all natural either, but that one was pretty obvious, even down the hall.
posted by malocchio at 9:07 AM on April 14, 2009
chained melody
Pyramid, that was my initial title for the post, but I wasn't sure people would get it. Apparently they would have.
posted by orville sash at 9:08 AM on April 14, 2009
Astro: the song is based on the tombstone epitaph for his father, who committed suicide. So says NPR.
posted by Brocktoon at 9:18 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by Brocktoon at 9:18 AM on April 14, 2009
There was a musical about Ellie Greenwich called Leader Of The Pack: The Ellie Greenwich Story which my high school put on one time. I played Gus Sharky, the ficitionalized version of Phil Spector, and so I've always sort had a soft spot in my heart for the guy. Then, a few years ago, I read the guardian article linked above (I think it was a mefi post, in fact) where Leonard Cohen says the following:
also, I wish they'd let me carry a prop gun around on stage.
posted by shmegegge at 9:23 AM on April 14, 2009
'He is a very hospitable man,' Cohen continues. 'It was when other people were around in the recording studio that he seemed to move into his Mr Hyde period. One day he had a bottle of wine in one hand and a 35mm pistol in the other. He put his arm around my shoulder, pressed the muzzle into my neck and said, "Leonard, I love you." At which point I said: "I hope you really do, Phil."'I still have a soft spot in my heart for the guy. I really just can't reconcile this image with the one I think many people grew up having before they heard about this stuff.
also, I wish they'd let me carry a prop gun around on stage.
posted by shmegegge at 9:23 AM on April 14, 2009
Glyn Johns (producer of The Rolling Stones, The Who, etc etc) characterized his work on "Let It Be" as "garbage" and "utter puke".
Spector's the one who turned The Long and Winding Road into The Long and Boring Song by weighing it down with that overly lush and crummy arrangement, wasn't he?
Well, then.
posted by Spatch at 9:30 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Spector's the one who turned The Long and Winding Road into The Long and Boring Song by weighing it down with that overly lush and crummy arrangement, wasn't he?
Well, then.
posted by Spatch at 9:30 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Can't seem to find it online, but Tom Wolfe's "The First Tycoon of Teen" (a New York magazine story from 1965, later published in The Kandy-Kolored Tangerine-Flake Streamline Baby) is a fantastic portrait of Spector at the height of his fame and influence.
As I recall, the story opens with Spector sitting on an airplane preparing for take off, consumed by paranoid delusions of crashing. He's surrounded by hipster sycophants who call him Phil, baby and not just indulge but actually sort of amplify his fantasy, ordering the plane back to the gate so Spector can find another one. Probably read as something like high camp at the time, but in retrospect you can sort of see how certain tendencies were being nurtured back then into what became full-blown madness.
posted by gompa at 9:34 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
As I recall, the story opens with Spector sitting on an airplane preparing for take off, consumed by paranoid delusions of crashing. He's surrounded by hipster sycophants who call him Phil, baby and not just indulge but actually sort of amplify his fantasy, ordering the plane back to the gate so Spector can find another one. Probably read as something like high camp at the time, but in retrospect you can sort of see how certain tendencies were being nurtured back then into what became full-blown madness.
posted by gompa at 9:34 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
"I hope he gets help in the slammer"
LOL, the California prison system? He'll be lucky to have his three hots and a cot.
posted by Xoebe at 9:36 AM on April 14, 2009
LOL, the California prison system? He'll be lucky to have his three hots and a cot.
posted by Xoebe at 9:36 AM on April 14, 2009
well, given that no more citation of this man's psychotic tendencies be needed, this may be gratuitous, but since i have not seen it mentioned here: consider ronnie spector's account. the bastard should have been in prison decades ago, but since he made so many people so much money . . . ehn, that's just crazy phil!
posted by barrett caulk at 9:37 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by barrett caulk at 9:37 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
One day he had a bottle of wine in one hand and a 35mm pistol in the other.
Unless it was a grenade launcher or anti-armor round, I somehow doubt it was a 35mm. (Guns calibers and mm ratings are based on the diameter of the barrel, this would mean he was holding a handgun with a 1.3 inch diameter. By way of example, a .50 AE (the round the Desert Eagle uses) is only a half an inch.)
So, it would have been like, comically and absurdly big.
posted by quin at 9:38 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Unless it was a grenade launcher or anti-armor round, I somehow doubt it was a 35mm. (Guns calibers and mm ratings are based on the diameter of the barrel, this would mean he was holding a handgun with a 1.3 inch diameter. By way of example, a .50 AE (the round the Desert Eagle uses) is only a half an inch.)
So, it would have been like, comically and absurdly big.
posted by quin at 9:38 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Oh, his Long and Winding Road was such a disaster. I mean, how often do you hear a song for the first time ever and instantly know it's wrong? I still remember the surprise, the dismay!
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:38 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:38 AM on April 14, 2009
Perhaps it was a 35mm camera, and Cohen's memory is a bit hazy.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 9:42 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 9:42 AM on April 14, 2009
Pulling a gun on Leonard Cohen or John Lennon seems on par with kicking puppies.
posted by spamguy at 9:43 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by spamguy at 9:43 AM on April 14, 2009
I know this seems like it's good news now, but I want you all to reflect upon what could happen if the California justice system continues this alarming trend of finding obviously guilty celebrities guilty.
True enough, but remember that it took two bites at the apple to convict the guy who is known for drunkenly threatening women with guns. If you had to choose a reputation to start a murder trial with, I would look for something else.
On preview:
So, it would have been like, comically and absurdly big.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Leonard Cohen doesn't really grok weaponry.
posted by kosem at 9:44 AM on April 14, 2009
True enough, but remember that it took two bites at the apple to convict the guy who is known for drunkenly threatening women with guns. If you had to choose a reputation to start a murder trial with, I would look for something else.
On preview:
So, it would have been like, comically and absurdly big.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Leonard Cohen doesn't really grok weaponry.
posted by kosem at 9:44 AM on April 14, 2009
For a few years when I was a teenager, my family had Laker season tickets. They were not that great. . in the corner about halfway up.
In the row in front of us, was this little guy who always came with an entourage. He would inevitably show up after the games started, and regardless of how the game was going, leave before it was over, again with his group. Inevitably, the big black guy in his entourage would bring him a hot dog, out of which he would eat only the frank (this was way before people were afraid of carbs).
We always knew he was some sort of high roller. Once, he had left his leather jacket behind, and we took it home (pockets were empty) and returned it to him next game, saying we knew it was his and didn't want it to get lost. He seemed neither grateful nor dismayed by this neighborly gesture.
All we ever heard him say was "Go Wilt!"
My sister and I had no idea who we was until the following year. We no longer had the season tickets, but we were watching Easy Rider and when Spector showed up as the coke buyer, we exclaimed, "that's the guy at the Forum!" and had to wait till the credits to realize it was him.
(One thing about living in LA. It's almost impossible to steer totally clear of celebs.)
posted by Danf at 9:46 AM on April 14, 2009
In the row in front of us, was this little guy who always came with an entourage. He would inevitably show up after the games started, and regardless of how the game was going, leave before it was over, again with his group. Inevitably, the big black guy in his entourage would bring him a hot dog, out of which he would eat only the frank (this was way before people were afraid of carbs).
We always knew he was some sort of high roller. Once, he had left his leather jacket behind, and we took it home (pockets were empty) and returned it to him next game, saying we knew it was his and didn't want it to get lost. He seemed neither grateful nor dismayed by this neighborly gesture.
All we ever heard him say was "Go Wilt!"
My sister and I had no idea who we was until the following year. We no longer had the season tickets, but we were watching Easy Rider and when Spector showed up as the coke buyer, we exclaimed, "that's the guy at the Forum!" and had to wait till the credits to realize it was him.
(One thing about living in LA. It's almost impossible to steer totally clear of celebs.)
posted by Danf at 9:46 AM on April 14, 2009
Unless it was a grenade launcher or anti-armor round, I somehow doubt it was a 35mm.
If Phil Spector was threatening people with a tank in the studio, somehow I don't think I'd be all that surprised.
posted by panboi at 9:48 AM on April 14, 2009
If Phil Spector was threatening people with a tank in the studio, somehow I don't think I'd be all that surprised.
posted by panboi at 9:48 AM on April 14, 2009
Ah... I see the phil Spector revisionism has begin. Now he is a hack. I wonder if there are any previous music threads in which he is praised as a visionary and a genius. Wish I had the time to check. Whether or not his wall of sound was nothing more than shoving a bunch of people in a room, he created a sound that still bears his name when used, as it is pretty much all the time to this day.
posted by spicynuts at 9:49 AM on April 14, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by spicynuts at 9:49 AM on April 14, 2009 [5 favorites]
Does anyone know what the thoery of the crime was? How did she come to have a gun in her mouth. Its it just the obvious - Him drinking and fucking around and boom?
posted by sfts2 at 9:57 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by sfts2 at 9:57 AM on April 14, 2009
I'm with spicynuts, despite they guy being a murderer and a poor fucking excuse for a human being he is still one of the most influential producers ever. I'll agree that he peaked in the sixties but I defy anyone to listen to one of the classic wall-of-sound productions and not 10 be impressed and 2) not to see just how influential this technique/approach has been. Still, no excuses for what he did, I hope he rots in jail.
posted by ob at 9:57 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ob at 9:57 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
spicynuts, I hope not. In spite of his crimes against, well, a lot of things, he's made a lot of incredible music and it would be silly to pretend he didn't just because he's a dangerous jackass lunatic.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:58 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:58 AM on April 14, 2009
Sad story. So much of his work was just brilliant. Also he was a total nut. His nuttiness certainly doesn't erase his brilliance. Cramming rooms full of great artists for long hours is what it took to create some of the most memorable and original recordings. Too bad he took it too far, too often.
posted by JBennett at 9:59 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by JBennett at 9:59 AM on April 14, 2009
Spector's the one who turned The Long and Winding Road into The Long and Boring Song by weighing it down with that overly lush and crummy arrangement, wasn't he?
Spector was long past his prime by then. You have to go back to 1963, to that bit towards the end of "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" where Darlene Love and Leon Russell send the song through the fucking roof, to hear what the fuss was about.
posted by Iridic at 10:03 AM on April 14, 2009
Spector was long past his prime by then. You have to go back to 1963, to that bit towards the end of "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" where Darlene Love and Leon Russell send the song through the fucking roof, to hear what the fuss was about.
posted by Iridic at 10:03 AM on April 14, 2009
Actually, the only undeniable fuck-up I've heard attributed to Spector in the music arena was the "Let It Be" situation (and who knows the real story). I attribute that more to differing vision -- not incompetence. Now people are trotting that out to nullify his other work.
posted by RavinDave at 10:06 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by RavinDave at 10:06 AM on April 14, 2009
You know who else's techniques are used to this day?
Pythagorus.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:09 AM on April 14, 2009
Pythagorus.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:09 AM on April 14, 2009
Ahem. Pythagoras.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
Ah... I see the phil Spector revisionism has begin
Well, to be fair, there's been an awful lot of Phil Spector revisionism for a long time; it's not like he was universally beloved and admired before this murder trial. The general consensus of everybody in the world who wasn't John Lennon was that he bollocksed up Let it Be, and there are plenty of Leonard Cohen fans who consider the album he produced the low point of Cohen's career.
Accounts of Phil as a producer are always a bit weird. He seems to have delegated a lot of the actual technical work to others, providing only an overall vision of what he was looking for in the results. There are also some unsavory rumors of him forcing young and powerless songwriters into letting him take co-writer credits which were dubiously merited. That said, though, it's indisputable that an awful lot of great music came out under his supervision in the early stages of his career. A complicated--and clearly loony--dude.
posted by yoink at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, to be fair, there's been an awful lot of Phil Spector revisionism for a long time; it's not like he was universally beloved and admired before this murder trial. The general consensus of everybody in the world who wasn't John Lennon was that he bollocksed up Let it Be, and there are plenty of Leonard Cohen fans who consider the album he produced the low point of Cohen's career.
Accounts of Phil as a producer are always a bit weird. He seems to have delegated a lot of the actual technical work to others, providing only an overall vision of what he was looking for in the results. There are also some unsavory rumors of him forcing young and powerless songwriters into letting him take co-writer credits which were dubiously merited. That said, though, it's indisputable that an awful lot of great music came out under his supervision in the early stages of his career. A complicated--and clearly loony--dude.
posted by yoink at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Now I understand that line-- "I've been Phil Spectored, resurrected"-- from A Simple Desultory Philippic.
I just discovered somebody's tapped my phone! Folk rock.
posted by cereselle at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just discovered somebody's tapped my phone! Folk rock.
posted by cereselle at 10:10 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ah... I see the phil Spector revisionism has begin. Now he is a hack.
C'mon. The Let It Be work has always had its share of vocal critics.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:11 AM on April 14, 2009
C'mon. The Let It Be work has always had its share of vocal critics.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:11 AM on April 14, 2009
Geoff Emerick, the Beatles long-time engineer, and George Martin were stunned to find that Spector had ERASED a crucial McCartney vocal on one track (one that McCartney had agonized over for days to get right) so he could add more strings.
The real crime is that he didn't erase them all.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
The real crime is that he didn't erase them all.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]
With the wall-of-sound treatment, the sky's the limit for the San Quentin Male Voice Choir.
posted by ob at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ob at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Agree with Joe Beese-- Back to Mono is spectacular. Type in Phil Spector here, and you can listen to the whole thing, including the Christmas album.
posted by ibmcginty at 10:15 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by ibmcginty at 10:15 AM on April 14, 2009
The real crime is that he didn't erase them all.
Huh. No love for "Get Back"?
posted by yoink at 10:23 AM on April 14, 2009
Huh. No love for "Get Back"?
posted by yoink at 10:23 AM on April 14, 2009
Ah... I see the phil Spector revisionism has begin.
Hey, his technique works for some singers and not for others. With the Beatles, his technique sounded meh. However, with Tina Turner -- yeah, that worked. I defy you to listen to "River Deep, Mountain High" and not think, "da-yaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!"
Sometimes he had it, sometimes he hadn't.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:49 AM on April 14, 2009
Hey, his technique works for some singers and not for others. With the Beatles, his technique sounded meh. However, with Tina Turner -- yeah, that worked. I defy you to listen to "River Deep, Mountain High" and not think, "da-yaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!"
Sometimes he had it, sometimes he hadn't.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:49 AM on April 14, 2009
what's up with The Hair? I mean, is it a wig, or an elaborately styled wig, or what?
His current wife testified under oath that the hair was real. There were no follow up questions. I really hope that she meant the wigs were made from real hair. For her sake.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:56 AM on April 14, 2009
His current wife testified under oath that the hair was real. There were no follow up questions. I really hope that she meant the wigs were made from real hair. For her sake.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:56 AM on April 14, 2009
I for one have always hated "da doo ron ron", "bop shu bop", and related garbage. So yeah he sucks, no revisionism needed.
posted by jeffburdges at 10:59 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 10:59 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Dear Metafilter:
Thank you for finally helping me understand why "Death of a Ladies Man" sucked so hard. That one had me really confused.
(Though, fwiw, I agree with EmpressCallipygos about Spector's (non-criminal) work: It was damned fine sometimes. But trying to produce Leonard Cohen the same way you'd produce a 60's girl group? That's a hailstorm of fail.)
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 11:00 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Thank you for finally helping me understand why "Death of a Ladies Man" sucked so hard. That one had me really confused.
(Though, fwiw, I agree with EmpressCallipygos about Spector's (non-criminal) work: It was damned fine sometimes. But trying to produce Leonard Cohen the same way you'd produce a 60's girl group? That's a hailstorm of fail.)
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 11:00 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
I will forever love "River Deep, Mountain High"
That must have been an interesting showdown, Phil and Ike both trying to control Tina.
posted by readery at 11:01 AM on April 14, 2009
That must have been an interesting showdown, Phil and Ike both trying to control Tina.
posted by readery at 11:01 AM on April 14, 2009
Yeah, um, my producer pulls a gun on me, jabs it into my neck, and tells me he loves me, I'm calling the fucking cops at the earliest goddamn opportunity. WTF, Cohen?
posted by Flunkie at 11:05 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by Flunkie at 11:05 AM on April 14, 2009
Phil and Ike both trying to control Tina.
Though that track is listed as Ike and Tina Turner, Ike's only job, for which he was well compensated, was to stay away from the studio.
Check out Zippity Doo Dah. The guitar sound was finally arrived at by turning off the mic for the guitar and recording only the bleed through on the other open mics in the studio. It is a pretty unusual sound.
He was reviled by some for insisting on a torturous number of retakes. But when you listen to his productions, the vocals are always perfectly in tune.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:09 AM on April 14, 2009
Though that track is listed as Ike and Tina Turner, Ike's only job, for which he was well compensated, was to stay away from the studio.
Check out Zippity Doo Dah. The guitar sound was finally arrived at by turning off the mic for the guitar and recording only the bleed through on the other open mics in the studio. It is a pretty unusual sound.
He was reviled by some for insisting on a torturous number of retakes. But when you listen to his productions, the vocals are always perfectly in tune.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:09 AM on April 14, 2009
With the Beatles, his technique sounded meh.
This is not a unanimous viewpoint. John Lennon, in fact, was quite grateful to Spector for saving his song Across the Universe, a song Lennon felt had been ruined by McCartney's input in its first release.
He also did some acclaimed work with Lennon and George Harrison on their solo projects.
So, just calm down. And frankly, I prefer Spector's album cut of Let it Be to the single.
posted by evilcolonel at 11:10 AM on April 14, 2009
This is not a unanimous viewpoint. John Lennon, in fact, was quite grateful to Spector for saving his song Across the Universe, a song Lennon felt had been ruined by McCartney's input in its first release.
He also did some acclaimed work with Lennon and George Harrison on their solo projects.
So, just calm down. And frankly, I prefer Spector's album cut of Let it Be to the single.
posted by evilcolonel at 11:10 AM on April 14, 2009
Well, I guess this means that legally, Kim Fowley is now only the second most psychotically asshole producer in LA.
posted by klangklangston at 11:14 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 11:14 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
Spector's the one who turned The Long and Winding Road into The Long and Boring Song by weighing it down with that overly lush and crummy arrangement, wasn't he?
Sows ear - strings != silk purse.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:14 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
Sows ear - strings != silk purse.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:14 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
>With the Beatles, his technique sounded meh.
This is not a unanimous viewpoint.
Nor is the opinion that his version of Let It Be was superiour.
Which, ultimately, was my point -- that people have had lots of different opinoins about his work all along, and it's not like suddenly we're all coming out of the woodwork with them now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:16 AM on April 14, 2009
This is not a unanimous viewpoint.
Nor is the opinion that his version of Let It Be was superiour.
Which, ultimately, was my point -- that people have had lots of different opinoins about his work all along, and it's not like suddenly we're all coming out of the woodwork with them now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:16 AM on April 14, 2009
I was unexpected fascinated by the Arena documentary last year, The Agony and the Ecstacy of Phil Spector. I wondered at the end of it whether, though he seemed generally guilty, he might not have been guilty of this specific crime, but that if you spend long enough threatening people with loaded guns, eventually you'll find someone desperate enough to call your bluff. Reminded me of Joe Meek, for some reason. Perhaps all that reverb addled their brains.
posted by Grangousier at 11:18 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by Grangousier at 11:18 AM on April 14, 2009
Spector was long past his prime by then. You have to go back to 1963, to that bit towards the end of "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" where Darlene Love and Leon Russell send the song through the fucking roof, to hear what the fuss was about.
I do like the Wall of Sound concept when it is done right (and that song is very dynamic, isn't it?) It was a very positive influence to some, I know. Stuff like Tracey Ullman's version of "They Don't Know" and Elvis Costello's "The Other Side of Summer" were considered influenced by the Wall of Sound, were they not?
posted by Spatch at 11:34 AM on April 14, 2009
I do like the Wall of Sound concept when it is done right (and that song is very dynamic, isn't it?) It was a very positive influence to some, I know. Stuff like Tracey Ullman's version of "They Don't Know" and Elvis Costello's "The Other Side of Summer" were considered influenced by the Wall of Sound, were they not?
posted by Spatch at 11:34 AM on April 14, 2009
Just to give you an idea of what the Wall of Sound entailed, Spector's usual practice for recording bass was to have one electric bass and three acoustic stand up basses all playing in unison.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:09 PM on April 14, 2009
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:09 PM on April 14, 2009
So, just calm down. And frankly, I prefer Spector's album cut of Let it Be to the single.
posted by evilcolonel
Well, obviously you can't hear it properly with your head up your butt like that.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:09 PM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by evilcolonel
Well, obviously you can't hear it properly with your head up your butt like that.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:09 PM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Mod note: I killed a few comments. Enough with the hurf durf prison rape stuff, please.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:27 PM on April 14, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:27 PM on April 14, 2009 [6 favorites]
I get that Death of a Ladies' Man doesn't measure up to any of Cohen's earlier work, but I think it's a bit harsh to consider it a complete failure. More like a noble, if failed, experiment. I still think Don't Go Home With Your Hard-On is a pretty good track.
Oh, and Phil Spector is definitely crazy and should be locked away forever.
posted by Rangeboy at 2:19 PM on April 14, 2009
Oh, and Phil Spector is definitely crazy and should be locked away forever.
posted by Rangeboy at 2:19 PM on April 14, 2009
There's a "Wall of Sound" article at the BBC with some examples and music clips.
I find the Phil Spector sound off-putting: the big sound - or "bombastic" as the BBC article puts it - just isn't to my tastes. Everything seems to be mashed into the samey-same reverb grinder, turning artists into unremarkable paste.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 3:09 PM on April 14, 2009
I find the Phil Spector sound off-putting: the big sound - or "bombastic" as the BBC article puts it - just isn't to my tastes. Everything seems to be mashed into the samey-same reverb grinder, turning artists into unremarkable paste.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 3:09 PM on April 14, 2009
The greatness of "Be My Baby" I can see, but "River Deep" ... really, I'd rather listen to Ike in his prime than that song again. It's bombastic. Ike was as much of an innovator and influence as Phil Spector was. And now there's no more reason to hate Ike over Phil. You can make a neutral judgment. Whose set would you kick off the other's?
Speaking of which, why do some people still go off on how Ike was kicked off the set by Spector? These two were both bad men who abused women. Perhaps Ike gets the slight nod, if there is to be one, for not actually killing any woman, as far as we know. Heaven knows why Phil should get the nod for kicking Ike off the set, like he were some righteous, self-aware empowering agent of women everywhere for giving Tina her due. The only advantage I could see him having in some people's book is that he's white and made singles that a larger audience grew up with. But he's still a woman-hurtin' mofo, same as Ike, and murderin' one at that.
Now, judge the music, if you can do so without wanting to smash any of their records. It all depends upon how much you can separate actions of individuals from the art they produced. And both surely produced great art, even if it was popular or commercial art.
posted by raysmj at 3:36 PM on April 14, 2009
Speaking of which, why do some people still go off on how Ike was kicked off the set by Spector? These two were both bad men who abused women. Perhaps Ike gets the slight nod, if there is to be one, for not actually killing any woman, as far as we know. Heaven knows why Phil should get the nod for kicking Ike off the set, like he were some righteous, self-aware empowering agent of women everywhere for giving Tina her due. The only advantage I could see him having in some people's book is that he's white and made singles that a larger audience grew up with. But he's still a woman-hurtin' mofo, same as Ike, and murderin' one at that.
Now, judge the music, if you can do so without wanting to smash any of their records. It all depends upon how much you can separate actions of individuals from the art they produced. And both surely produced great art, even if it was popular or commercial art.
posted by raysmj at 3:36 PM on April 14, 2009
I'm gonna take all 83 comments here and copy'n'paste 'em to the MetaChat post I made on this story yesterday!
not really, though. I don't wanna break MeCha.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:39 PM on April 14, 2009
not really, though. I don't wanna break MeCha.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:39 PM on April 14, 2009
Spector was a genius. And he was also totally nuts.
... I've never heard that story before.
posted by jabberjaw at 4:25 PM on April 14, 2009
... I've never heard that story before.
posted by jabberjaw at 4:25 PM on April 14, 2009
flapjax: McCartney wailed about how Spector ruined The Long and Winding Road with those strings...
He said the same things about Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but he didn't seem all that upset when he accepted the Grammy for it.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:06 PM on April 14, 2009
He said the same things about Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but he didn't seem all that upset when he accepted the Grammy for it.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:06 PM on April 14, 2009
He said the same things about Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but he didn't seem all that upset when he accepted the Grammy for it.
Hmm... that's a pretty neat trick then, considering that it was Paul Simon who wrote the song. That McCartney really gets around!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:11 PM on April 14, 2009
Hmm... that's a pretty neat trick then, considering that it was Paul Simon who wrote the song. That McCartney really gets around!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:11 PM on April 14, 2009
flapjax: McCartney wailed about how Spector ruined The Long and Winding Road with those strings...
He said the same things about Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but he didn't seem all that upset when he accepted the Grammy for it.
Paul McCartney got a Grammy for "Bridge Over Troubled Waters"? Simon and Garfunkel must have been madder than FDR was when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
posted by yoink at 5:12 PM on April 14, 2009
He said the same things about Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but he didn't seem all that upset when he accepted the Grammy for it.
Paul McCartney got a Grammy for "Bridge Over Troubled Waters"? Simon and Garfunkel must have been madder than FDR was when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
posted by yoink at 5:12 PM on April 14, 2009
Curse you flapjax!! (If only I hadn't had to do a quick Google check to see if it was Garfunk-el or Garfun-kle.)
posted by yoink at 5:13 PM on April 14, 2009
posted by yoink at 5:13 PM on April 14, 2009
"Hmm... that's a pretty neat trick then, considering that it was Paul Simon who wrote the song. That McCartney really gets around!"
McCartney/Simon.
posted by klangklangston at 5:14 PM on April 14, 2009
McCartney/Simon.
posted by klangklangston at 5:14 PM on April 14, 2009
When I find myself in times of trouble
When you're weary, feeling small,
Mother Mary comes to me,
When tears are in your eyes, I will dry them all;
Speaking words of wisdom
Im on your side.
Let it Be
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
posted by yoink at 5:21 PM on April 14, 2009
When you're weary, feeling small,
Mother Mary comes to me,
When tears are in your eyes, I will dry them all;
Speaking words of wisdom
Im on your side.
Let it Be
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
posted by yoink at 5:21 PM on April 14, 2009
Yeah, oops. But still, the same comment with the Grammy for the album, Let It Be.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:43 PM on April 14, 2009
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:43 PM on April 14, 2009
But still, the same comment with the Grammy for the album, Let It Be.
yes, but the Grammy for Let It Be was for Best Original Score for a Film, not Best Album... so it was an award for the songwriting, not for the production. /nitpick
Anyway, speaking of great albums made by Beatles and to be fair to the murderous bastard that is Phil Spector, he did do one hell of a job coproducing All Things Must Pass with George... who, nicely enough, got his own star in Hollywood today.
posted by scody at 6:12 PM on April 14, 2009
yes, but the Grammy for Let It Be was for Best Original Score for a Film, not Best Album... so it was an award for the songwriting, not for the production. /nitpick
Anyway, speaking of great albums made by Beatles and to be fair to the murderous bastard that is Phil Spector, he did do one hell of a job coproducing All Things Must Pass with George... who, nicely enough, got his own star in Hollywood today.
posted by scody at 6:12 PM on April 14, 2009
When you're down, and troubled, and you need a helping hand,
and nothing is going right
When I find myself in times of trouble
When you're weary, feeling small; when tears are in your eyes
Close your eyes and think of me, and soon I will be there
To brighten up even your darkest night
Mother Mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom: Let it be
I will dry them all; I'm on your side
You just call out my name, and you know wherever I am,
I'll come running to see you again
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
When times get rough, and friends just can't be found
Winter, spring, summer, or fall--All you have to do is call
And I'll be there
Speaking words of wisdom
Like a bridge over troubled water
You've got a friend
Let it be
I will lay me down
posted by Sys Rq at 6:44 PM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
and nothing is going right
When I find myself in times of trouble
When you're weary, feeling small; when tears are in your eyes
Close your eyes and think of me, and soon I will be there
To brighten up even your darkest night
Mother Mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom: Let it be
I will dry them all; I'm on your side
You just call out my name, and you know wherever I am,
I'll come running to see you again
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
When times get rough, and friends just can't be found
Winter, spring, summer, or fall--All you have to do is call
And I'll be there
Speaking words of wisdom
Like a bridge over troubled water
You've got a friend
Let it be
I will lay me down
posted by Sys Rq at 6:44 PM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yeah, um, my producer pulls a gun on me, jabs it into my neck, and tells me he loves me, I'm calling the fucking cops at the earliest goddamn opportunity. WTF, Cohen?
WTF, Flunkie. STOP SNITCHIN'
posted by McGuillicuddy at 7:10 PM on April 14, 2009
WTF, Flunkie. STOP SNITCHIN'
posted by McGuillicuddy at 7:10 PM on April 14, 2009
scody: yes, but the Grammy for Let It Be was for Best Original Score for a Film
Good catch. How about that time in New York, outside the Hard Rock Cafe. Spector gets out of his stretch limo at the door, and three frat boy tourists see this, and come up to him saying, "man, you're great!", and "dude, we love you." Spector is quite flattered and receptive.
Then one of them says, "Dudley Moore, you're the best!"
Spector becomes enraged -- I imagine Rumpelstiltskin, I imagine beet red -- and pulls a handgun, chasing the kids for three blocks.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:01 AM on April 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
Good catch. How about that time in New York, outside the Hard Rock Cafe. Spector gets out of his stretch limo at the door, and three frat boy tourists see this, and come up to him saying, "man, you're great!", and "dude, we love you." Spector is quite flattered and receptive.
Then one of them says, "Dudley Moore, you're the best!"
Spector becomes enraged -- I imagine Rumpelstiltskin, I imagine beet red -- and pulls a handgun, chasing the kids for three blocks.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:01 AM on April 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
Stalked and pulled a gun on my gf once.
Are we talking about you or Phil Spector?
posted by electroboy at 7:24 AM on April 15, 2009
Are we talking about you or Phil Spector?
posted by electroboy at 7:24 AM on April 15, 2009
yes, but the Grammy for Let It Be was for Best Original Score for a Film, not Best Album... so it was an award for the songwriting, not for the production.
Which also means that it was for the music before Spector got his hands on it. Spector had no involvement with the music in the film at all (the tapes were all handed over to him after recording was completed).
posted by yoink at 9:26 AM on April 15, 2009
Which also means that it was for the music before Spector got his hands on it. Spector had no involvement with the music in the film at all (the tapes were all handed over to him after recording was completed).
posted by yoink at 9:26 AM on April 15, 2009
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