He was in Mordor, wasn't he?
April 23, 2009 10:07 AM Subscribe
Created "by fans for fans", the 40-minute Lord Of The Rings fan film The Hunt For Gollum, is not your average amateur fan-made production. "Adapted from elements of the appendices" and featuring some impressive production values, it debuts online May 3rd, and is also being screened at the Sci-Fi London convention. Check out the First and second trailers.
not paired with the desire to do something truly their own
i always though things like this were used as stepping stones to try against the odds to advance the careers of those involved. most people need a hook to even look at something, and hooks we all know and love are more understandable from a distance than something completely new.
posted by the aloha at 10:25 AM on April 23, 2009
i always though things like this were used as stepping stones to try against the odds to advance the careers of those involved. most people need a hook to even look at something, and hooks we all know and love are more understandable from a distance than something completely new.
posted by the aloha at 10:25 AM on April 23, 2009
This looks amazing considering it's a fan film. Future successful film careers ahoy.
Also, you don't know what pain is until you've been grabbed by the orcs.
posted by panboi at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2009
Also, you don't know what pain is until you've been grabbed by the orcs.
posted by panboi at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2009
they're obviously talented enough to make something of their own
I'm reserving judgment. The glimpses of the fight scenes, for one, look absolutely awful.
Although if you're one of the people who think Peter Jackson doesn't have a deep understanding of the material, then you and I probably wouldn't have much to talk about.
posted by incessant at 10:29 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm reserving judgment. The glimpses of the fight scenes, for one, look absolutely awful.
Although if you're one of the people who think Peter Jackson doesn't have a deep understanding of the material, then you and I probably wouldn't have much to talk about.
posted by incessant at 10:29 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
drjimmy11: "they're violating a ton of copyrights"
Just for the record, The Hobbit was published 71 years ago.
posted by Joe Beese at 10:34 AM on April 23, 2009
Just for the record, The Hobbit was published 71 years ago.
posted by Joe Beese at 10:34 AM on April 23, 2009
I thought that copyright for books lasted for seventy years after the death of the author, not the publication date.
posted by octothorpe at 10:37 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by octothorpe at 10:37 AM on April 23, 2009
Joe Beese, Zombie Tolkien doesn't care when the book was published.
posted by chunking express at 10:38 AM on April 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by chunking express at 10:38 AM on April 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
I like fan-made stuff when it's an attempt to take familiar characters and worlds in a direction that mainstream filmmakers have overlooked or avoided. This, however, seems like an unsolicited "continuation" of other filmmakers' artistry and hard work, and that rubs me the wrong way. What of any use does it bring to the table? To lean on an old phrase, "The parts that are original aren't good, and the parts that are good aren't original."
posted by hermitosis at 10:38 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by hermitosis at 10:38 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I didn't mean to imply that the book is out of copyright. Only that copyright lasts a long, long time.
posted by Joe Beese at 10:42 AM on April 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Joe Beese at 10:42 AM on April 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
Just for the record, The Hobbit was published 71 years ago.
Which doesn't matter. Current law is 70 years after the death of the author. Tolkien died in 1973.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:43 AM on April 23, 2009
Which doesn't matter. Current law is 70 years after the death of the author. Tolkien died in 1973.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:43 AM on April 23, 2009
And yeah, this seems like they are trying too hard to re-do what Peter Jackson already did. Its impressive in that it's much better than what I could do in my backyard with a Flip HD camera, but that's not awesome in and of itself. Also, fan made stuff is always kind of cheesy, no mater how hard you try to make it not be.
posted by chunking express at 10:43 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by chunking express at 10:43 AM on April 23, 2009
I LOVE Tolkien's work and most of the ways it's been portrayed on screen and in animation, and to be honest I quite like Peter Jackson's take for the most part, but ... hmm. Like some others I'm a little ambivalent about this. On one hand it certainly does look well done for what it is but on the other hand, I really wish they'd attempted their own take on the material rather than simply reproducing Peter Jackson's. There are so many ways these stories and characters could be depicted, it would have been wonderful to see people of such talent striking out and giving birth to a new way of seeing them rather than treating PJ's as the be-all-end-all ...
posted by DingoMutt at 11:00 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by DingoMutt at 11:00 AM on April 23, 2009
Amazing technical skills and casting.
But do these guys know that Jackson didn't "write" LOTR? That it is entirely possible to make your OWN interpretation of it, with your OWN ideas? Hey, fuck, do it with puppets! Too much live-actionism in the Jackson version.
Oh & dudes? Hire a copy editor for your titles.
posted by gorgor_balabala at 11:05 AM on April 23, 2009
But do these guys know that Jackson didn't "write" LOTR? That it is entirely possible to make your OWN interpretation of it, with your OWN ideas? Hey, fuck, do it with puppets! Too much live-actionism in the Jackson version.
Oh & dudes? Hire a copy editor for your titles.
posted by gorgor_balabala at 11:05 AM on April 23, 2009
For those of you concerned about quality, and those of you concerned about copyrights, may I direct your attention to this?
posted by Xoebe at 11:11 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Xoebe at 11:11 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
SCENE: Ma and Pa sit in rocking chairs on their split and slouching wooden porch. Pa is in overalls and filthy boots, puffing a pipe and rocking thoughtfully. Ma, dressed in a yellowed dress, sits unmoving. Both stare outward into the shimmering heat, and when they speak, their voices sound as weathered and ancient as their crumbling porch.
Ma: It's a hot one.
(beat)
Pa: You betcha.
(beat)
Pa: Lotta haters on Metafilter today, eh ma?
(beat)
Ma: Lotta haters on Metafilter Every day, pa.
AND SCENE
posted by orville sash at 11:11 AM on April 23, 2009 [32 favorites]
Ma: It's a hot one.
(beat)
Pa: You betcha.
(beat)
Pa: Lotta haters on Metafilter today, eh ma?
(beat)
Ma: Lotta haters on Metafilter Every day, pa.
AND SCENE
posted by orville sash at 11:11 AM on April 23, 2009 [32 favorites]
Xoebe: "For those of you concerned about quality, and those of you concerned about copyrights, may I direct your attention to this?"
I see what you did there.
No, wait... I don't.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:12 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I see what you did there.
No, wait... I don't.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:12 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
They should get Phil Spector to play Gollium; by jingo, then you'd have something!
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:13 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:13 AM on April 23, 2009
But do these guys know that Jackson didn't "write" LOTR? That it is entirely possible to make your OWN interpretation of it, with your OWN ideas? Hey, fuck, do it with puppets! Too much live-actionism in the Jackson version.
Doing it with puppets would still be doing it like Peter Jackson
posted by orville sash at 11:15 AM on April 23, 2009
Doing it with puppets would still be doing it like Peter Jackson
posted by orville sash at 11:15 AM on April 23, 2009
Some people wanted to make a film of something, and they made it. Idiots. If they read this thread I'm sure they'll realise they should have spent more time nitpicking.
Those guys are probably covered in nits.
posted by howfar at 11:23 AM on April 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
Those guys are probably covered in nits.
posted by howfar at 11:23 AM on April 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
Tribute band.
posted by jettloe at 11:27 AM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jettloe at 11:27 AM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm sure they'll realise they should have spent more time nitpicking.
no regrets here. i will be on my death bed knowing that i complained as often as i wanted to, never held back, and never really changed anything. most others should be so lucky.
posted by the aloha at 11:34 AM on April 23, 2009
no regrets here. i will be on my death bed knowing that i complained as often as i wanted to, never held back, and never really changed anything. most others should be so lucky.
posted by the aloha at 11:34 AM on April 23, 2009
Metafilter: Hey, fuck, do it with puppets!
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:44 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:44 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
The story follows the Heir of Isildur; the "greatest huntsman and traveller in Middle Earth" as he sets out to find the creature Gollum. The creature must be found to discover the truth about the Ring, and to protect the future Ringbearer.
I'm sure this will be nirvana for the fans, but assuming it's timeline occurs between The Hobbit and LOTR, there's no drama.
Spoiler:
He failed.
This makes as much sense as prequels like:
Erin Brockovitch: Beauty Queen on the Rise.
or,
Night Before the Living Dead.
[hypocrite] That being said, I still look forward to 'The Hobbit' when it's released. But, there's a bit more meat in that story, unrelated to the ring itself. [/hypocrite]
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:57 AM on April 23, 2009
I'm sure this will be nirvana for the fans, but assuming it's timeline occurs between The Hobbit and LOTR, there's no drama.
Spoiler:
He failed.
This makes as much sense as prequels like:
Erin Brockovitch: Beauty Queen on the Rise.
or,
Night Before the Living Dead.
[hypocrite] That being said, I still look forward to 'The Hobbit' when it's released. But, there's a bit more meat in that story, unrelated to the ring itself. [/hypocrite]
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:57 AM on April 23, 2009
Although if you're one of the people who think Peter Jackson doesn't have a deep understanding of the material, then you and I probably wouldn't have much to talk about.
Peter Jackson was definitely immersed in the material and loves it, but there's a lot of places where he Doesn't Get It. The Two Towers has a lot of action in it, but a more faithful adaptation would be a talky drama. By squeezing that book into a 3 hour action movie, he had to cut out most of the heart.
posted by straight at 12:04 PM on April 23, 2009
Peter Jackson was definitely immersed in the material and loves it, but there's a lot of places where he Doesn't Get It. The Two Towers has a lot of action in it, but a more faithful adaptation would be a talky drama. By squeezing that book into a 3 hour action movie, he had to cut out most of the heart.
posted by straight at 12:04 PM on April 23, 2009
but assuming it's timeline occurs between The Hobbit and LOTR, there's no drama.
Oh God. I'm nerding out here. See, in the books, he does hunt and capture Gollum and that's how he and Gandalf learn a bunch of things about what Gollum has done. Basically, this falls outside the movies.
I hate and love myself for knowing that. Precioussss...
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:06 PM on April 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
Oh God. I'm nerding out here. See, in the books, he does hunt and capture Gollum and that's how he and Gandalf learn a bunch of things about what Gollum has done. Basically, this falls outside the movies.
I hate and love myself for knowing that. Precioussss...
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:06 PM on April 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
The question of legality I think is secondary to the question of whether anyone would pursue legal action. These guys aren't making any money off of this, nor are they creating anything any studio had any intention of creating. I think this basically falls under fan fiction. The Tolkien estate and New Line would probably turn a blind eye or perhaps even encourage the work, in much the same way JK Rowling has been supportive of fans creating works with her characters.
posted by Andersean at 12:10 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Andersean at 12:10 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
in the books, he does hunt and capture Gollum
Huh.
I gobbled up The Hobbit as a child, but fought stalwartly to digest LOTR. I'm lucky to have finished Return of the King but had nothing left for the appendices. I stand corrected, but am left with further plothole questions I must now take to Google.
posted by CynicalKnight at 12:21 PM on April 23, 2009
Huh.
I gobbled up The Hobbit as a child, but fought stalwartly to digest LOTR. I'm lucky to have finished Return of the King but had nothing left for the appendices. I stand corrected, but am left with further plothole questions I must now take to Google.
posted by CynicalKnight at 12:21 PM on April 23, 2009
...assuming it's timeline occurs between The Hobbit and LOTR, there's no drama.
It's during LOTR, per the Appendixes.
Those Appendixes could be mined many times over for more movies, should anyone care to do so. Of course, they do have the problem as above: no drama.
posted by rokusan at 12:24 PM on April 23, 2009
It's during LOTR, per the Appendixes.
Those Appendixes could be mined many times over for more movies, should anyone care to do so. Of course, they do have the problem as above: no drama.
posted by rokusan at 12:24 PM on April 23, 2009
assuming it's timeline occurs between The Hobbit and LOTR
Actually, there are MANY years missing from the movie that are present in the book. I think in Tolkien's telling, the amount of time that passes between Gandalf leaving Frodo after the Long Expected Party and his return to send Frodo off on the quest is... um... decades.
posted by hippybear at 12:26 PM on April 23, 2009
Actually, there are MANY years missing from the movie that are present in the book. I think in Tolkien's telling, the amount of time that passes between Gandalf leaving Frodo after the Long Expected Party and his return to send Frodo off on the quest is... um... decades.
posted by hippybear at 12:26 PM on April 23, 2009
I think in Tolkien's telling, the amount of time that passes between Gandalf leaving Frodo after the Long Expected Party and his return to send Frodo off on the quest is... um... decades.
Seventeen years I believe.
happy I know this
posted by marxchivist at 12:38 PM on April 23, 2009
Seventeen years I believe.
happy I know this
posted by marxchivist at 12:38 PM on April 23, 2009
The Two Towers has a lot of action in it, but a more faithful adaptation would be a talky drama. By squeezing that book into a 3 hour action movie, he had to cut out most of the heart.
So, the fact that Peter Jackson chose to make a commercial film -- the precarious second part of a trilogy -- that was only 3 hours long and wasn't a dialogue-based drama...this shows that Peter Jackson "doesn't get" The Two Towers.
Unlike LOTR fans who Do. Get It.
All righty!
I've also gotta agree wholeheartedly that knowing the ultimate outcome of Gollum's story makes this film pretty pointless. I remember watching Return of the King and being absolutely shocked and delighted by that film's never-saw-it-coming twist ending where
SPOILER ALERT FOR RETURN OF THE KING
the heroes win and evil is defeated.
Now that movie rocked, not like that stupid Gone With the Wind where, duh, the South loses, like where's the drama there? Or Citizen Kane, I mean the guy dies in the first scene, who cares what happens after that?
posted by Byun-o-matic at 12:44 PM on April 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
So, the fact that Peter Jackson chose to make a commercial film -- the precarious second part of a trilogy -- that was only 3 hours long and wasn't a dialogue-based drama...this shows that Peter Jackson "doesn't get" The Two Towers.
Unlike LOTR fans who Do. Get It.
All righty!
I've also gotta agree wholeheartedly that knowing the ultimate outcome of Gollum's story makes this film pretty pointless. I remember watching Return of the King and being absolutely shocked and delighted by that film's never-saw-it-coming twist ending where
SPOILER ALERT FOR RETURN OF THE KING
the heroes win and evil is defeated.
Now that movie rocked, not like that stupid Gone With the Wind where, duh, the South loses, like where's the drama there? Or Citizen Kane, I mean the guy dies in the first scene, who cares what happens after that?
posted by Byun-o-matic at 12:44 PM on April 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
fan made stuff is always kind of cheesy, no mater how hard you try to make it not be.
Now, now. Let's not make this about Bakshi.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:46 PM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Now, now. Let's not make this about Bakshi.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:46 PM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Peter Jackson was definitely immersed in the material and loves it, but there's a lot of places where he Doesn't Get It.
There might be places where he Doesn't Get It, but y'know what he does get? How to adapt those books into watchable, entertaining, well-made films. I'd like every movie-goer to take a class on film adaptation so they can take their heads out of their asses and realize that when the movies don't slavishly adhere to the source material, that's usually a good thing.
By squeezing that book into a 3 hour action movie, he had to cut out most of the heart.
You're right. He should've made a 200 million dollar contemplative drama starring hobbits and elves. That would've been FANTASTIC.
posted by incessant at 12:47 PM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
There might be places where he Doesn't Get It, but y'know what he does get? How to adapt those books into watchable, entertaining, well-made films. I'd like every movie-goer to take a class on film adaptation so they can take their heads out of their asses and realize that when the movies don't slavishly adhere to the source material, that's usually a good thing.
By squeezing that book into a 3 hour action movie, he had to cut out most of the heart.
You're right. He should've made a 200 million dollar contemplative drama starring hobbits and elves. That would've been FANTASTIC.
posted by incessant at 12:47 PM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Now that movie rocked, not like that stupid Gone With the Wind where, duh, the South loses, like where's the drama there? Or Citizen Kane, I mean the guy dies in the first scene, who cares what happens after that?
End of season 1 of HBO's Rome. We all know what happens to Caesar. What a yawn-fest that was.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2009
End of season 1 of HBO's Rome. We all know what happens to Caesar. What a yawn-fest that was.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2009
Yeah, how does this interfere or connect with the new Hobbit movie? It's been while since I read that one.
AND.. how the hell are these fan directors going to depict Gollum? Do they have one of those fancy- ass motion capture thingos? That said, the quality looks nice.
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2009
AND.. how the hell are these fan directors going to depict Gollum? Do they have one of those fancy- ass motion capture thingos? That said, the quality looks nice.
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2009
End of season 1 of HBO's Rome. We all know what happens to Caesar. What a yawn-fest that was.
Not meaning to derail, but MAN, I wish that show had gone on longer... it was really fabulous, and then it quit, right as the empire was being established.
posted by hippybear at 12:52 PM on April 23, 2009
Not meaning to derail, but MAN, I wish that show had gone on longer... it was really fabulous, and then it quit, right as the empire was being established.
posted by hippybear at 12:52 PM on April 23, 2009
The Tolkien estate and New Line would probably turn a blind eye or perhaps even encourage the work, in much the same way JK Rowling has been supportive of fans creating works with her characters.
Back in the mists of time, when Bakshi strode the land like a poorly animated colossus, a trade mark lawyer who was a member of The Tolkein Society noticed that Saul Zaentz Enterprises were trying to trademark the word Hobbit and a bunch of other Tolkein related stuff. The Tolkein Estate who, up to that point, had been somewhat unworldy assembled a team of Nazgul lawyers, immortal, wraithlike, well versed in the darker arts of suing the ass off trademark violators.
The people who made this movie are about to be sued down to the sub-atomic level. Not even a quark will be left.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 1:05 PM on April 23, 2009
Back in the mists of time, when Bakshi strode the land like a poorly animated colossus, a trade mark lawyer who was a member of The Tolkein Society noticed that Saul Zaentz Enterprises were trying to trademark the word Hobbit and a bunch of other Tolkein related stuff. The Tolkein Estate who, up to that point, had been somewhat unworldy assembled a team of Nazgul lawyers, immortal, wraithlike, well versed in the darker arts of suing the ass off trademark violators.
The people who made this movie are about to be sued down to the sub-atomic level. Not even a quark will be left.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 1:05 PM on April 23, 2009
How to adapt those books into watchable, entertaining, well-made films.
Yes, Jackson made 3 very enjoyable, entertaining films. I enjoyed them.
That is not proof, however, that he "has a deep understanding of the material," is all I'm saying, and several of his decisions (esp in the second movie) are pretty good evidence that he does not.
posted by straight at 1:07 PM on April 23, 2009
Yes, Jackson made 3 very enjoyable, entertaining films. I enjoyed them.
That is not proof, however, that he "has a deep understanding of the material," is all I'm saying, and several of his decisions (esp in the second movie) are pretty good evidence that he does not.
posted by straight at 1:07 PM on April 23, 2009
Metafilter: AND SCENE
posted by Hands of Manos at 1:07 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Hands of Manos at 1:07 PM on April 23, 2009
A more slow and talky LOTR? Sign me up! Does it have more songs too?
posted by Artw at 1:09 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Artw at 1:09 PM on April 23, 2009
Not meaning to derail, but MAN, I wish that show had gone on longer... it was really fabulous, and then it quit, right as the empire was being established.
Vorenus lives.
posted by jquinby at 1:28 PM on April 23, 2009
Vorenus lives.
posted by jquinby at 1:28 PM on April 23, 2009
jquinby: Wow. that's interesting news. Thanks for that.
If only the DVD sets weren't 3x the price of all similar DVD sets, I'd have this series nearly memorized by now.
posted by hippybear at 1:36 PM on April 23, 2009
If only the DVD sets weren't 3x the price of all similar DVD sets, I'd have this series nearly memorized by now.
posted by hippybear at 1:36 PM on April 23, 2009
Myself, I wish Jackson had left The Lord of The Rings alone and called it good with Dead Alive (AKA Braindead). What a disgustingly bloody, gory, hilarious movie.
posted by dunkadunc at 1:38 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 1:38 PM on April 23, 2009
I'd like to see a movie based on The Children of Húrin. That would sure sell a lot of toys.
posted by sonic meat machine at 1:41 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by sonic meat machine at 1:41 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
How about filming The Silmarillion? It would be like My Dinner With Andre meets Legend. Sure-fire cure for insomnia.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:52 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:52 PM on April 23, 2009
What I don't get about Jackson's LoTR is why he couldn't have made decent-looking action. For example, take any of the dozens of well-crafted movies of last decade.. matrix, 300, crouching tiger, gladiator. Action in LoTR looks like high-school production compared to these. And the rest of movie is 90% shouting something unintelligible while standing on stirrups and 10% admittedly cool-looking medieval architecture. To be fair, the books aren't that good, either.
posted by rainy at 2:33 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by rainy at 2:33 PM on April 23, 2009
That first trailer for the fan movie needs a fan edit of its own. I could reread Two Towers in the amount of time it takes them to get to a point. The second trailer is better.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:44 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:44 PM on April 23, 2009
I'd like to send every screenplay writer to a mandatory reeducation camp staffed by sci-fi geeks with cattleprods to instill some respect for canon. But I don't have a bone to pick with Jackson. The LOTR adaptations captured far more of the heart of the story than I had any reason to expect and more than made up for the occasional if jarring deviation and the overabundance of cgi.
posted by Manjusri at 3:06 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Manjusri at 3:06 PM on April 23, 2009
He was in Mordor, wasn't he?
Actually, it looks like he's in Qatar.
posted by homunculus at 3:35 PM on April 23, 2009
Actually, it looks like he's in Qatar.
posted by homunculus at 3:35 PM on April 23, 2009
I think this fan clip demonstrates a deep understanding of the material.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:00 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:00 PM on April 23, 2009
oh my sweet gawd... THEY'RE ORGANIZING... RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
posted by eatdonuts at 5:02 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by eatdonuts at 5:02 PM on April 23, 2009
Still waiting on the Silmarillion movie.
Wait—someone is going to try and make a Simarillion movie?
posted by ob1quixote at 5:11 PM on April 23, 2009
Wait—someone is going to try and make a Simarillion movie?
posted by ob1quixote at 5:11 PM on April 23, 2009
All I know is that those two trailers got my nerdy parts all engorged and tingly.
posted by Ber at 5:42 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 5:42 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Tolkein Society noticed that Saul Zaentz Enterprises were trying to trademark the word Hobbit and a bunch of other Tolkein related stuff . The Tolkein Estate who, up to that point, had been somewhat unworldy assembled a team of Nazgul lawyers, immortal, wraithlike, well versed in the darker arts of suing the ass off trademark violators.
I may very well be misunderstanding you, but I think there is a major MAJOR distinction between creating a rather innocuous, not-for-profit fan film, functionally taking away nothing from the estate of the original creator, vs trying to trademark the most singularly original and memorable creation of that creator's body of works.
posted by Andersean at 5:55 PM on April 23, 2009
I may very well be misunderstanding you, but I think there is a major MAJOR distinction between creating a rather innocuous, not-for-profit fan film, functionally taking away nothing from the estate of the original creator, vs trying to trademark the most singularly original and memorable creation of that creator's body of works.
posted by Andersean at 5:55 PM on April 23, 2009
Oh God. I'm nerding out here. See, in the books, he does hunt and capture Gollum and that's how he and Gandalf learn a bunch of things about what Gollum has done. Basically, this falls outside the movies.
Now I'M nerding out. But wasn't it that Gandalf and Aragorn were hoping to capture Gollum before he could do something bad like get captured by Sauron and reveal the existence of Hobbits and "Baggins" and "The Shire". So it was a "Sadly, we were too late" kind of thing--wasn't that it?
Those books are really, really important to me. And I have to say, Peter Jackson did pretty good. Except for the elves. (Other than Galadriel--Cate Blanchett ruled that part. She also ruled as Dylan. That woman can play anything.)
posted by flotson at 6:53 PM on April 23, 2009
Now I'M nerding out. But wasn't it that Gandalf and Aragorn were hoping to capture Gollum before he could do something bad like get captured by Sauron and reveal the existence of Hobbits and "Baggins" and "The Shire". So it was a "Sadly, we were too late" kind of thing--wasn't that it?
Those books are really, really important to me. And I have to say, Peter Jackson did pretty good. Except for the elves. (Other than Galadriel--Cate Blanchett ruled that part. She also ruled as Dylan. That woman can play anything.)
posted by flotson at 6:53 PM on April 23, 2009
According to Wikipedia:
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:27 PM on April 23, 2009
Gollum left the Mountains in pursuit of Bilbo a few years after losing the Ring, but the trail was cold. He made his way to the edge of Mordor, where he met the monstrous spider Shelob and became her spy, worshiping her and bringing her food. He was eventually captured by Sauron's forces and tortured, but he revealed only the words "Baggins" and "Shire". His testimony alerted the Dark Lord of Mordor to the existence and significance of Hobbits in general and the Baggins family in particular. He was freed, but was soon caught by Gandalf and Aragorn, who interrogated him about the Ring and placed him in the care of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood. He escaped custody and descended into Moria.That matches my memory. But, of course, its Wikipedia, so its also possible that I edited to to match my memory. WE SHALL NEVER KNOW.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:27 PM on April 23, 2009
There's a lot of places where [Peter Jackson] Doesn't Get It.
He sure didn't get Eowyn. Or Faramir, for that matter.
But the other 98% of the films? He did just fine, far better than any of the "can't be filmed" crowd ever dreamed possible.
posted by rokusan at 8:15 PM on April 23, 2009
He sure didn't get Eowyn. Or Faramir, for that matter.
But the other 98% of the films? He did just fine, far better than any of the "can't be filmed" crowd ever dreamed possible.
posted by rokusan at 8:15 PM on April 23, 2009
So, I have my copy of ROTK (book, not movie) in my lap. Let's see what it says.
In Appendix B: 3001 Bilbo's farewell feast. Gandalf suspects his ring to be the one ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.
...
3009 Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years, searching in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor. At some time during these years, Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron.
...
3017 Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn into the Dead Marshes and brought to Thranduil in Mirkwood.
3018 June 20 Sauron attacks Osgiliath. About the same time Trranduil is attacked, and Gollum escapes.
3018 August All traces of Gollum is lost. It is thought that at about this time, being hunted by both the Elves and Sauron's servants, he took refuge in Moria; but when he had at last discovered the way to the West-gate he could not get out.
In my brief thumbing-through of the Appendices, that's all I find re: Gollum. The details about Shelob and such are in the main text. I don't know where the torture confession is in the text, but I remember reading it.
I hadn't realized Gollum was already in Moria when the Fellowship entered. That's an interesting tidbit.
posted by hippybear at 8:18 PM on April 23, 2009
In Appendix B: 3001 Bilbo's farewell feast. Gandalf suspects his ring to be the one ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.
...
3009 Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years, searching in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor. At some time during these years, Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron.
...
3017 Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn into the Dead Marshes and brought to Thranduil in Mirkwood.
3018 June 20 Sauron attacks Osgiliath. About the same time Trranduil is attacked, and Gollum escapes.
3018 August All traces of Gollum is lost. It is thought that at about this time, being hunted by both the Elves and Sauron's servants, he took refuge in Moria; but when he had at last discovered the way to the West-gate he could not get out.
In my brief thumbing-through of the Appendices, that's all I find re: Gollum. The details about Shelob and such are in the main text. I don't know where the torture confession is in the text, but I remember reading it.
I hadn't realized Gollum was already in Moria when the Fellowship entered. That's an interesting tidbit.
posted by hippybear at 8:18 PM on April 23, 2009
He sure didn't get Eowyn. Or Faramir, for that matter.
While I was frustrated by the changes in Faramir's character in the Jackson films, I'm not sure there is any way to have his character appear in a medium such as film and NOT have it somehow altered. I mean, in the books, don't the hobbits pretty much just sit and share their story with him, he tells them about his family, and he never even considers grabbing the ring for himself? That's not very interesting filmmaking...
It was a major change, but it was one I understand, and to some extent support. If the ring was ALL that powerful and tempting, why would Faramir not also be swayed?
posted by hippybear at 8:22 PM on April 23, 2009
While I was frustrated by the changes in Faramir's character in the Jackson films, I'm not sure there is any way to have his character appear in a medium such as film and NOT have it somehow altered. I mean, in the books, don't the hobbits pretty much just sit and share their story with him, he tells them about his family, and he never even considers grabbing the ring for himself? That's not very interesting filmmaking...
It was a major change, but it was one I understand, and to some extent support. If the ring was ALL that powerful and tempting, why would Faramir not also be swayed?
posted by hippybear at 8:22 PM on April 23, 2009
Wait—someone is going to try and make a Simarillion movie?
You know, if each LOTR movie was roughly 3-5 hours long, you know how long the Silmarillion would be? You know how long 'Ainulindale' would be?! I don't think the Silmarillion was meant to be a novel by any means, it's more like the Middle-Earth book of lore/history/bible. I can't see a movie being made, at least not on the whole thing.
posted by mmmleaf at 8:40 PM on April 23, 2009
You know, if each LOTR movie was roughly 3-5 hours long, you know how long the Silmarillion would be? You know how long 'Ainulindale' would be?! I don't think the Silmarillion was meant to be a novel by any means, it's more like the Middle-Earth book of lore/history/bible. I can't see a movie being made, at least not on the whole thing.
posted by mmmleaf at 8:40 PM on April 23, 2009
But the other 98% of the films? He did just fine, far better than any of the "can't be filmed" crowd ever dreamed possible.
He certainly did a very good job in making Boromir a more sympathetic character, showing him teaching the hobbits swordplay and so on, than I read him in the book.
While I was frustrated by the changes in Faramir's character in the Jackson films, I'm not sure there is any way to have his character appear in a medium such as film and NOT have it somehow altered. I mean, in the books, don't the hobbits pretty much just sit and share their story with him, he tells them about his family, and he never even considers grabbing the ring for himself? That's not very interesting filmmaking...
Actually, there's tension about whether he'll just kill them for breaking the law. But Faramir was meant to be a contrast to his brother, and his behaviour with Frodo underlined the degree to which his father had invested his hopes in the wrong brother.
If the ring was ALL that powerful and tempting, why would Faramir not also be swayed?
There were a boatload of characters who weren't swayed to do anything - including Aragorn and Sam.
Of course, Sam is the only character to wear the ring for any length of time and not succumb.
So, the fact that Peter Jackson chose to make a commercial film -- the precarious second part of a trilogy -- that was only 3 hours long and wasn't a dialogue-based drama...this shows that Peter Jackson "doesn't get" The Two Towers.
Unlike LOTR fans who Do. Get It.
The Two Towers was the shittest movie of the three. Cutting a bunch of stuff to put in that bullshit drift-down-the-river-Arwen crap in it was a travesty.
posted by rodgerd at 3:24 AM on April 24, 2009
He certainly did a very good job in making Boromir a more sympathetic character, showing him teaching the hobbits swordplay and so on, than I read him in the book.
While I was frustrated by the changes in Faramir's character in the Jackson films, I'm not sure there is any way to have his character appear in a medium such as film and NOT have it somehow altered. I mean, in the books, don't the hobbits pretty much just sit and share their story with him, he tells them about his family, and he never even considers grabbing the ring for himself? That's not very interesting filmmaking...
Actually, there's tension about whether he'll just kill them for breaking the law. But Faramir was meant to be a contrast to his brother, and his behaviour with Frodo underlined the degree to which his father had invested his hopes in the wrong brother.
If the ring was ALL that powerful and tempting, why would Faramir not also be swayed?
There were a boatload of characters who weren't swayed to do anything - including Aragorn and Sam.
Of course, Sam is the only character to wear the ring for any length of time and not succumb.
So, the fact that Peter Jackson chose to make a commercial film -- the precarious second part of a trilogy -- that was only 3 hours long and wasn't a dialogue-based drama...this shows that Peter Jackson "doesn't get" The Two Towers.
Unlike LOTR fans who Do. Get It.
The Two Towers was the shittest movie of the three. Cutting a bunch of stuff to put in that bullshit drift-down-the-river-Arwen crap in it was a travesty.
posted by rodgerd at 3:24 AM on April 24, 2009
If the eagles were so noble and fast, why didn't Gandalf use one to take the Ring to Mordor?
posted by dunkadunc at 2:14 PM on April 24, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 2:14 PM on April 24, 2009
Because one does not simply fly into Mordor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:55 PM on April 24, 2009
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:55 PM on April 24, 2009
Because one does not simply fly into Mordor.
Indeed. I've seen what the Nazgûl ride. It isn't pretty.
posted by hippybear at 3:04 PM on April 24, 2009
Indeed. I've seen what the Nazgûl ride. It isn't pretty.
posted by hippybear at 3:04 PM on April 24, 2009
If the eagles were so noble and fast, why didn't Gandalf use one to take the Ring to Mordor?
posted by dunkadunc
I think in the book when one of the eagles rescued Gandalf from Isengard, the eagle was complaining he was just supposed to deliver a message and he wasn't Gandalf's taxi. But that doesn't explain why the eagles rescued the Hobbits at the end.
Hell, I don't know. It would have been a lot shorter story.
posted by marxchivist at 6:22 PM on April 24, 2009
posted by dunkadunc
I think in the book when one of the eagles rescued Gandalf from Isengard, the eagle was complaining he was just supposed to deliver a message and he wasn't Gandalf's taxi. But that doesn't explain why the eagles rescued the Hobbits at the end.
Hell, I don't know. It would have been a lot shorter story.
posted by marxchivist at 6:22 PM on April 24, 2009
What I don't get about Jackson's LoTR is why he couldn't have made decent-looking action. For example, take any of the dozens of well-crafted movies of last decade.. matrix, 300, crouching tiger, gladiator. Action in LoTR looks like high-school production compared to these. And the rest of movie is 90% shouting something unintelligible while standing on stirrups and 10% admittedly cool-looking medieval architecture. To be fair, the books aren't that good, either.
"They have a cave troll!"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:02 PM on April 24, 2009
"They have a cave troll!"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:02 PM on April 24, 2009
Still no Tom Bombadil.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:41 PM on April 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Smedleyman at 11:41 PM on April 24, 2009 [2 favorites]
If the eagles were so noble and fast, why didn't Gandalf use one to take the Ring to Mordor?
Too obvious, I'm guessing. By the time of the Council, Saruman had been outed as a traitor. Sauron had basically beaten the Istari - the Blue Wizards had dissapeared, Radagast was ineffectual, Saruman had been turned. Gandalf was the only one left, and you can bet Sauron was keeping a very close eye (ho, ho) on him. Giant Eagles flying Gandalf to Mordor with the ring would be like raising the armies of the West to escort it - a great big sign saying, "Here it is, come and get it!"
More imporantly Gandalf didn't trust himself with the ring. It's one of the early points established in the book - powerful people who avoided the corruption of the ring (Gandalf, Aragorn) did so by not taking it. The people who are most immune to it are the ordinary folk - which is why Sam is the only uncorrupted ring bearer (which is why David Brin's suggestion that LoTR is pro-upper-class is so cretinous).
Still no Tom Bombadil.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by rodgerd at 8:35 PM on April 25, 2009
Too obvious, I'm guessing. By the time of the Council, Saruman had been outed as a traitor. Sauron had basically beaten the Istari - the Blue Wizards had dissapeared, Radagast was ineffectual, Saruman had been turned. Gandalf was the only one left, and you can bet Sauron was keeping a very close eye (ho, ho) on him. Giant Eagles flying Gandalf to Mordor with the ring would be like raising the armies of the West to escort it - a great big sign saying, "Here it is, come and get it!"
More imporantly Gandalf didn't trust himself with the ring. It's one of the early points established in the book - powerful people who avoided the corruption of the ring (Gandalf, Aragorn) did so by not taking it. The people who are most immune to it are the ordinary folk - which is why Sam is the only uncorrupted ring bearer (which is why David Brin's suggestion that LoTR is pro-upper-class is so cretinous).
Still no Tom Bombadil.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by rodgerd at 8:35 PM on April 25, 2009
If the eagles were so noble and fast, why didn't Gandalf use one to take the Ring to Mordor?
I always assumed the power of Sauron prevented the eagles from entering Mordor's airspace until his power was broken by the destruction of the Ring.
Certainly the Eye of Mordor would have at least seen any eagle attempting to fly into Mordor. A few times Sauron almost "sees" Frodo when just randomly scanning the countryside. If Frodo had done something like ride an eagle into Mordor, Sauron would have looked straight at him and perceived the Ring immediately.
posted by straight at 12:05 PM on April 27, 2009
I always assumed the power of Sauron prevented the eagles from entering Mordor's airspace until his power was broken by the destruction of the Ring.
Certainly the Eye of Mordor would have at least seen any eagle attempting to fly into Mordor. A few times Sauron almost "sees" Frodo when just randomly scanning the countryside. If Frodo had done something like ride an eagle into Mordor, Sauron would have looked straight at him and perceived the Ring immediately.
posted by straight at 12:05 PM on April 27, 2009
Tolkien out-Wagners Wagner: The most unexpected of Tolkien’s posthumous publications is his poetic response to the gap in the Nibelung legend
posted by homunculus at 8:13 PM on May 7, 2009
posted by homunculus at 8:13 PM on May 7, 2009
A Lord of the Rings-themed fan-produced film called The Hunt for Gollum premiered online on Sunday, and within 24 hours it had had about 250,000 views, with nearly all fan comments on the Web site giving the film a thumbs-up.
The premiere was so successful that it brought down the film's Web servers for a few hours.(via)
posted by Sailormom at 5:40 AM on May 8, 2009
The premiere was so successful that it brought down the film's Web servers for a few hours.(via)
posted by Sailormom at 5:40 AM on May 8, 2009
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
But then again, they're violating a ton of copyrights. It's not that I care about defending copyrights, it's just that I hate to see talented people falling into that goddamn fanboy "tribute" mentality- they're obviously talented enough to make something of their own, but they'd rather make a film they can never profit from, or even really own the rights to. The best they can hope for is for some Hollywood hand to reach down out of the clouds and offer them some work, probably crappy, probably uncredited. Then all the other fan boys will say they "made it." I just hate seeing so much talent not paired with the desire to do something truly their own.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:23 AM on April 23, 2009 [3 favorites]