Remember that time you microwaved a hamster in Maniac Mansion...?
June 5, 2009 8:03 AM Subscribe
The Memory Card, dissecting great moments in the history of gaming, including the return of Baby Metroid, instinctual player-choices in Ico, Lucca's family history in Crono-Trigger, and even soaking the damn letter in StarTropics.
Thanks for the post, they are pretty fun reads.
He didn't know Tetra was Zelda? Zelda games aren't subtle.
posted by graventy at 8:24 AM on June 5, 2009
He didn't know Tetra was Zelda? Zelda games aren't subtle.
posted by graventy at 8:24 AM on June 5, 2009
Thanks for this. I absolutely love the fact that I grew up at just the right time to feel warm and fuzzy and nostalgic about this stuff.
Also: SPOILERS!
posted by HumanComplex at 8:32 AM on June 5, 2009
Also: SPOILERS!
posted by HumanComplex at 8:32 AM on June 5, 2009
I love games that reward you for going to extra mile. Now a days games don't do that enough. Suikoden reminds me of that type of game. Collecting all those stars was awesome.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:42 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:42 AM on June 5, 2009
They did a nice write up on the original Ninja Gaiden. Funny though, I remember a different birth of the cutscene.
posted by Dr-Baa at 8:49 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Dr-Baa at 8:49 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Man, I actually have to agree with a lot of what's here, particularly the Mario 64 one (and the included reference to Mario Galaxy's Battlerock Galaxy and its three metal disc things and the fun gravity tricks you can play with them) and "Snake pulls the trigger" from MGS3. Definitely pleased that there's at least one from Mother 3, too. Of course, I'm partial to that (and the ending of EarthBound deserves to be in there at least as much).
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:58 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:58 AM on June 5, 2009
I still remember getting to the end of Super Metroid for the first time. What a great moment. Part of what made it so great is that you had been playing this game for hours in a totally lonely setting—you're a lone bounty hunter taking on a world of scary space pirates and monsters, spooky monsters, and the remnants of a dead civilization. You've got almost nothing in the way of allies. When, at the end it seems like you're basically dead twice, but are saved when the baby metroid makes the ultimate sacrifice, it's really quite touching.
posted by grouse at 8:58 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by grouse at 8:58 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'll never forget the Startropics letter thing, because the second time I played through the game, years after the first time, I no longer had the manual. I spent a lot of time searching through old Nintendo Power magazines because I knew I had seen the answer in one of them, and this was before I had a PC, much less dreamed of the internet or FAQs.
Also, unless there are two places in that game where you enter a 4-digit number(and I freely admit there may be, it's been a looooong time), the answer is 1776, right?
posted by owtytrof at 9:00 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, unless there are two places in that game where you enter a 4-digit number(and I freely admit there may be, it's been a looooong time), the answer is 1776, right?
posted by owtytrof at 9:00 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Fucking goddamn rental places that didn't give you the box with StarTropics.
posted by Evilspork at 9:07 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by Evilspork at 9:07 AM on June 5, 2009
Still clicking around, hope they have Hitler's head asplode!
posted by autodidact at 9:30 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by autodidact at 9:30 AM on June 5, 2009
This guy cried over a cut scene in Half-Life 2.. I mean.. c'mon man. Read a book or something.
posted by ChickenringNYC at 9:47 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by ChickenringNYC at 9:47 AM on June 5, 2009
The Wall Jump in metroid I remember this as so frustrating. I couldn't get the timing right. So I gave up and did a timed multi bomb jump. It was so hard, and I was so stupid, but I am rebel who plays by his own rules.
posted by I Foody at 9:47 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by I Foody at 9:47 AM on June 5, 2009
owtytrof, there's only the one place I remember where you have to enter the code (it's the navigation system for the sub) and the answer was 747. That number was passed around my friends in middle school, I remember as eighth graders we were all severely unimpressed that the code number was so easy to remember ("It's the number of an airplane!").
posted by barnacles at 9:59 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by barnacles at 9:59 AM on June 5, 2009
I have to confess, when I encountered the whole Star Tropics letter-washing fiasco I came as close to seven-year-old homicidal rage as possible. I saved up for so. freaking. long. to buy that game. Stupid letter - I think I looked at it once, figured it was one of those free pin-up poster type deals that came with the game and pitched it.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:08 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:08 AM on June 5, 2009
This guy cried over a cut scene in Half-Life 2.. I mean.. c'mon man. Read a book or something.
Right, because you can't do both.
posted by HumanComplex at 10:15 AM on June 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Right, because you can't do both.
posted by HumanComplex at 10:15 AM on June 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
The whole series is such a great rebuttal to the fogeystyle protestings that those darn videogames are just mindless brainrot. I love the concept of the Memory Card, and I love reading people's emotional reactions that go beyond "Yeah, that was an awesome bout of killing.".
posted by redsparkler at 10:48 AM on June 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by redsparkler at 10:48 AM on June 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
As much as I enjoyed Super Metroid, I don't think I was struck by the sacrifice of the baby metroid.
You, sir, are a heartless monster.
posted by Amanojaku at 10:52 AM on June 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
You, sir, are a heartless monster.
posted by Amanojaku at 10:52 AM on June 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
SPOILER: AERIS DIES
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:53 AM on June 5, 2009
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:53 AM on June 5, 2009
The "Leap of Faith" in Ico wasn't nearly as poignant, to me, as the dawning realization towards the end of the game of what the "shadows" are.
posted by lekvar at 11:04 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by lekvar at 11:04 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think I was struck by the sacrifice of the baby metroid.
*sniffle* I don't mind, I was just trying to help.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:13 AM on June 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
*sniffle* I don't mind, I was just trying to help.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:13 AM on June 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
Nuking the hamster in Maniac Mansion was only the first part of the fun. The other part was then showing the kablooey remains to Weird Ed, who'd then flip out and kill the kid who showed it to him. It was one of the only real ways to die permanently in the game (along with re-filling the swimming pool with a kid still in it.)
Maniac Mansion came with a fold-out poster in the form of a student union bulletin board, with ads for various services. Some of them contained integral clues to the game, and the Ask Edna advice column had some hints too. It was a brilliant feelie, especially since the top of the board read "DAVE IS A CHOWDERHEAD!"
posted by Spatch at 11:18 AM on June 5, 2009
Maniac Mansion came with a fold-out poster in the form of a student union bulletin board, with ads for various services. Some of them contained integral clues to the game, and the Ask Edna advice column had some hints too. It was a brilliant feelie, especially since the top of the board read "DAVE IS A CHOWDERHEAD!"
posted by Spatch at 11:18 AM on June 5, 2009
You, sir, are a heartless monster.
That I am. I never tried to resurrect Aeris with goofy codes or complicated cheats either.
posted by graventy at 11:37 AM on June 5, 2009
That I am. I never tried to resurrect Aeris with goofy codes or complicated cheats either.
posted by graventy at 11:37 AM on June 5, 2009
I'm not a video game hater, but I do think most of the more memorable video game narrative moments are pretty mediocre and only stand out because they happen in video games. If I read a book with the level of plot and character of most video games that are considered good I think it would compare unfavorably with almost every novel that I've ever read. It isn't, I think, that video games can't do narrative, rather it's that it would be too hard to do a legit good narrative for a video game.
You buy a video game and you are expecting what twenty hours of play time on average. That's a lot of time to fill with story especially since you want the player to have some amount of freedom. So the games go narrative empty because 20 hours of story is the entire duration of a season of a TV drama, it's a lot, and it is too much for a game to get right. So mostly you walk around places that look pretty similar to each other, looking for things. In a movie if a character is looking for a thing that he needs, he more or less arrives where it is and shows him grabbing it. Time is collapsed when something boring happens. In a video game the character will fight mostly enemies that are more or less indistinguishable. This happens in movies once in a while but usually not for more than one scene. In kill bill there was the crazy 88. How many video games have you kill fewer than 88 very similar opponents? (obviously some but I think you get what I'm after)
This is not to say that games aren't or can't be art, but I think when games get a pat on the back for narrative it is most because of absurdly low expectations. I think the art of games is in the play, providing the player lots of cool aha moments and a feeling of discovery. It can do other things too. But really a story where a girl travels back in time to the time when her mother was going to hurt herself on a crazy machine and types in the mother's name as a code to prevent the accident and there's really no human or interesting detail beyond that, it's the entire story that was so memorable, isn't really that good.
posted by I Foody at 11:54 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
You buy a video game and you are expecting what twenty hours of play time on average. That's a lot of time to fill with story especially since you want the player to have some amount of freedom. So the games go narrative empty because 20 hours of story is the entire duration of a season of a TV drama, it's a lot, and it is too much for a game to get right. So mostly you walk around places that look pretty similar to each other, looking for things. In a movie if a character is looking for a thing that he needs, he more or less arrives where it is and shows him grabbing it. Time is collapsed when something boring happens. In a video game the character will fight mostly enemies that are more or less indistinguishable. This happens in movies once in a while but usually not for more than one scene. In kill bill there was the crazy 88. How many video games have you kill fewer than 88 very similar opponents? (obviously some but I think you get what I'm after)
This is not to say that games aren't or can't be art, but I think when games get a pat on the back for narrative it is most because of absurdly low expectations. I think the art of games is in the play, providing the player lots of cool aha moments and a feeling of discovery. It can do other things too. But really a story where a girl travels back in time to the time when her mother was going to hurt herself on a crazy machine and types in the mother's name as a code to prevent the accident and there's really no human or interesting detail beyond that, it's the entire story that was so memorable, isn't really that good.
posted by I Foody at 11:54 AM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
'I Foody' made my point in a prettier way. 'HumanComplex', of course you can both read books, play video games, and do any number of other things. But seriously, to cry over THAT cut scene? To be that emotionally invested in characters who aren't all that interesting to begin with? I dunno man. Whatever. If that cut scene made him cry, then Titanic sent him into convulsions, Benjamin Button sent him into hysterics, and Ghost rendered him a sobbing, phlegmy mess. All shitty movies that make people cry.
posted by ChickenringNYC at 12:05 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by ChickenringNYC at 12:05 PM on June 5, 2009
owtytrof, there's only the one place I remember where you have to enter the code (it's the navigation system for the sub) and the answer was 747.
I know memory is unreliable but... my mind is officially blown. Now I've got to find out what game used 1776 as a code.
posted by owtytrof at 12:06 PM on June 5, 2009
I know memory is unreliable but... my mind is officially blown. Now I've got to find out what game used 1776 as a code.
posted by owtytrof at 12:06 PM on June 5, 2009
owtytrof
From the link to StarTropics in the FPP:
When you enter your sub, in hopes of escaping the island, you can enter the code 1776 (used to make the sub submerge), but then must enter an additional password to continue on.
By no surprise, this password is “747,” which is only accessible by using the letter included in the game.
You ain't so crazy after all.
posted by educatedslacker at 12:10 PM on June 5, 2009
From the link to StarTropics in the FPP:
When you enter your sub, in hopes of escaping the island, you can enter the code 1776 (used to make the sub submerge), but then must enter an additional password to continue on.
By no surprise, this password is “747,” which is only accessible by using the letter included in the game.
You ain't so crazy after all.
posted by educatedslacker at 12:10 PM on June 5, 2009
owtytrof , you use the code 1776 to submerge. You then have to enter the code 747 to continue on in the sub.
posted by studentbaker at 12:11 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by studentbaker at 12:11 PM on June 5, 2009
This is not to say that games aren't or can't be art, but I think when games get a pat on the back for narrative it is most because of absurdly low expectations.
I dunno, I agree most games don't do narrative well, and, outside of interactive fiction, they probably don't even try to do capital-L-Literary narrative, but if you compare them to genre fiction (sci fi/fantasy), there are some that hold up ok.
ok, I'm pretty much just thinking of Planescape: Torment
but yeah. Interactive Fiction. It exists. Some of it is good, not just "good for a game."
posted by juv3nal at 12:13 PM on June 5, 2009
I dunno, I agree most games don't do narrative well, and, outside of interactive fiction, they probably don't even try to do capital-L-Literary narrative, but if you compare them to genre fiction (sci fi/fantasy), there are some that hold up ok.
ok, I'm pretty much just thinking of Planescape: Torment
but yeah. Interactive Fiction. It exists. Some of it is good, not just "good for a game."
posted by juv3nal at 12:13 PM on June 5, 2009
1) Yeah Interactive Fiction can absolutely be pretty good. I will say that most interactive fiction is either good as fiction or good as a game and very seldom both.
2) Planescape Torment was a lot of fun. It had pretty interesting characters and an ok story. I wish it's gameplay was more tactically fun and challenging (even though there wasn't all that much combat). Still a really neat game in a lot of ways.
3) I'm definitely pro game. I'm really interested in what makes games fun and satisfying though. And how games make things that shouldn't be fun so fun. Games are a really young medium and unlike movies very little of what human beings have learned about art is transitive to video games.
Oh I will say that Braid is exactly the solution to the problem that I'm talking about. Every single task you need to complete is unique (with maybe one or two exceptions). There is a narrative, I know many people think it's strong. I don't think it really is, but it's good for what it is and the way it's told is very interesting. And it is short. You play it and it's over and you have played it.
posted by I Foody at 12:38 PM on June 5, 2009
2) Planescape Torment was a lot of fun. It had pretty interesting characters and an ok story. I wish it's gameplay was more tactically fun and challenging (even though there wasn't all that much combat). Still a really neat game in a lot of ways.
3) I'm definitely pro game. I'm really interested in what makes games fun and satisfying though. And how games make things that shouldn't be fun so fun. Games are a really young medium and unlike movies very little of what human beings have learned about art is transitive to video games.
Oh I will say that Braid is exactly the solution to the problem that I'm talking about. Every single task you need to complete is unique (with maybe one or two exceptions). There is a narrative, I know many people think it's strong. I don't think it really is, but it's good for what it is and the way it's told is very interesting. And it is short. You play it and it's over and you have played it.
posted by I Foody at 12:38 PM on June 5, 2009
I wish they would just do a straight up remark of Maniac Mansion. I know the original is a classic and shouldn't be messed with but the game is hard to find and emulators don't do it any justice either.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 12:39 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by Mastercheddaar at 12:39 PM on June 5, 2009
ChickenringNYC No, I probably wouldn't cry at Half-Life 2 either, but your initial comment just seemed a little dismissive of video games in general. Plus, I wouldn't assume to know what impacts another person emotionally.
posted by HumanComplex at 12:43 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by HumanComplex at 12:43 PM on June 5, 2009
Wow, these are surprisingly good. I am actually feeling a little emotionally spent after going through some of them, which means both that he's right on the money, and that I'm a total dorkwad. Thanks for the link.
posted by jake at 12:48 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jake at 12:48 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the reassurance, educatedslacker and studentbaker. Stupid net nanny here won't let me visit any sites categorized as "games", with no distinction between playing games(flash sites, etc) and games journalism/discussion.
posted by owtytrof at 1:23 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by owtytrof at 1:23 PM on June 5, 2009
Ha! Sorry to confuse the issue for you there, owtytrof. It's been a long time since I've played Startropics. But don't despair, under the Southern Cross anything is possible!
posted by barnacles at 2:56 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by barnacles at 2:56 PM on June 5, 2009
Thanks for posting, I enjoyed this. So many memorable video game moments in my own head. Mind Forever Voyaging, when you enter the future city and see how it's gone to hell... that's one.
posted by jcruelty at 3:18 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by jcruelty at 3:18 PM on June 5, 2009
I'm not a video game hater, but I do think most of the more memorable video game narrative moments are pretty mediocre and only stand out because they happen in video games.
ARRGH! I understand what you mean here, but the assumption is that a video game is merely a venue, a container, a dispenser of the exact same kind of narrative that you could have gotten from a book or a movie.
But to me, your comment is the equivalent of saying, "Mozart's Magic Flute is actually a pretty mediocre narrative that only stands out because it happens in a piece of music."
If you read Destructoid's comments about Half-Life 2 (and I'm not saying I agree with him that this is a superlative moment in video games -- I think there are more memorable examples in Half-Life 2 alone), he pretty clearly says that the reason this scene works is because of the way it uses the interactivity of the video game medium. He talks about the foreshadowing glimpse, the way the player is lured away from Alyx while still being in contact with her, the way it plays with the expectations created by all the previous Half-Life scenes (which are usually interactive and allow the player to maintain control) to heighten the feeling of helplessness. All these things work to create an effect that is quite different from reading a book or watching a movie.
Sure, that scene would be mediocre if you were just watching it in a movie, which is to say if you subtract out all the things that made it not mediocre.
posted by straight at 3:25 PM on June 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
ARRGH! I understand what you mean here, but the assumption is that a video game is merely a venue, a container, a dispenser of the exact same kind of narrative that you could have gotten from a book or a movie.
But to me, your comment is the equivalent of saying, "Mozart's Magic Flute is actually a pretty mediocre narrative that only stands out because it happens in a piece of music."
If you read Destructoid's comments about Half-Life 2 (and I'm not saying I agree with him that this is a superlative moment in video games -- I think there are more memorable examples in Half-Life 2 alone), he pretty clearly says that the reason this scene works is because of the way it uses the interactivity of the video game medium. He talks about the foreshadowing glimpse, the way the player is lured away from Alyx while still being in contact with her, the way it plays with the expectations created by all the previous Half-Life scenes (which are usually interactive and allow the player to maintain control) to heighten the feeling of helplessness. All these things work to create an effect that is quite different from reading a book or watching a movie.
Sure, that scene would be mediocre if you were just watching it in a movie, which is to say if you subtract out all the things that made it not mediocre.
posted by straight at 3:25 PM on June 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
It's true that the story telling and writing in games can often be called unsubtle or shallow. But I think that just analysing the story by itself is doing games a disservice.
As you said, I Foody, the real heart of games is in the play. However, gameplay is intrinsically tied up with the experience and story telling. Looking through these articles, it seems like most of the "powerfully emotional" moments are also accompanied by a twist or change in the gameplay.
I would say that to some extent the quality of a story is proven by the end result - the effect it has on the audience. So if the whole combined experience of a game has the same emotional weight with people as a technically better written book, who's to say that the game was "less good"?
(On preview, what straight said.)
posted by lucidium at 3:50 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
As you said, I Foody, the real heart of games is in the play. However, gameplay is intrinsically tied up with the experience and story telling. Looking through these articles, it seems like most of the "powerfully emotional" moments are also accompanied by a twist or change in the gameplay.
I would say that to some extent the quality of a story is proven by the end result - the effect it has on the audience. So if the whole combined experience of a game has the same emotional weight with people as a technically better written book, who's to say that the game was "less good"?
(On preview, what straight said.)
posted by lucidium at 3:50 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also Grand Theft Auto III, the first time I ever saw it at a friend's house... the incredibly fun act of rioting, the feeling that you could do ANYTHING... truly memorable
posted by jcruelty at 3:56 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jcruelty at 3:56 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also that feeling in Katamari Damacy when you roll up everything in the world... an odd emptiness; I remember it very well
posted by jcruelty at 3:56 PM on June 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jcruelty at 3:56 PM on June 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Just once can't we talk about games without having to go through the whole art/not-art thing?
posted by markr at 5:06 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by markr at 5:06 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
graventy: "2He didn't know Tetra was Zelda? Zelda games aren't subtle."
I disagree. Yeah, Tetra's identity may have been somewhat obvious in retrospect, but if you know about it ahead of time, there are a number of clever nods to it. Most particularly, early in the game you get to explore the pirate ship while it sails to the forsaken fortress. It is the only time you can Tetra's room and look around. There's a picture of her (presumably deceased) mother, who we can piece together is the previous Zelda, to be found there. She looks rather formidable!
But my point is that this picture is played off on nowhere else in the game. Besides the paintings in Hyrule Castle, it's the only glimpse we get of another Zelda during the game.
I bring this up to refute your point that Zelda games are not subtle. And things like this are not uncommon in the series, actually. Zelda games are actually surprisingly subtle, maybe not about the major plot twists, but each of them has dozens of small moments you'll miss if you aren't paying attention.
Don't believe me? Here are some more:
Impa is Zelda's nursemaid in Ocarina of Time. She's one of the Sheikah, the lost dark tribe of Hyrule. Other than Sheik (who, as we know, is actually Zelda and not a Sheikah at all), she's the only Sheikah who appears in the game. There is an abandoned Sheikah village in Twilight Princess the player must visit during the game, but it doesn't really tell us much about these people. Impa's life, also, is a mystery. We're told that Kakariko Village was originally a Sheikah town that Impa opened up for the Hylians, and that's just about all we ever really find out about them.
Impa herself is a reference to the cartoon introduction to the original Legend of Zelda's instruction manual, in which a character by that name introduces the traveling adventurer boy Link to the plight of the land and Zelda.
Many of Ocarina of Time's sages are named after towns in Zelda II. This fact is actually fairly well-known, but consider, for a moment, the character of Rauru, the guy who you meet after reaching Adult Link's time on the first occaision. Who is he? There are no clues. He only shows up a handful of times in the game, and he has no backstory.
That annoying owl in Ocarina of Time, who is always showing up in the first third of the game to hoot his tutorials at the player, has a name it turns out, but it's easy to miss. It's Kaepora Gabora. This fact, and a lot of other interesting trivia, is revealed by the gossip stones. (Which, amusingly, are called-back to in Wind Waker by the King during the great reveal.)
The biggest subtlety of the games, however, for my money has to be the war. OoT and Majora's Mask each hint that there was a period of great martial stuggle in Hyrule/Termina's recent history, wars that appear, oddly, to be unrelated to Ganon. The unseen king in Ocarina of Time is supposed to be a uniter, Link's unseen mother was fleeing from a conflict when she entrusted her child to the Deku Tree before she died, those Stalchildren in Hyrule Field (damn near the only monsters in that huge expanse) and the Shadow Temple both hint that there must have been a grievous bloody conflict to produce all those skeletons. Majora's Mask has the dead king and his retainers in that castle before the fourth dungeon, and the Garu (sp?) that lie hidden around nearby areas. Yet these wars are unknown to us. What is up with them? For such an important event, they barely go remarked upon by the characters of either game.
Dah-dah-dah-DAH: You have found a plate of beans! You can eat them, plant them, or overthink them! Keep them in your bottle!
posted by JHarris at 5:43 PM on June 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I disagree. Yeah, Tetra's identity may have been somewhat obvious in retrospect, but if you know about it ahead of time, there are a number of clever nods to it. Most particularly, early in the game you get to explore the pirate ship while it sails to the forsaken fortress. It is the only time you can Tetra's room and look around. There's a picture of her (presumably deceased) mother, who we can piece together is the previous Zelda, to be found there. She looks rather formidable!
But my point is that this picture is played off on nowhere else in the game. Besides the paintings in Hyrule Castle, it's the only glimpse we get of another Zelda during the game.
I bring this up to refute your point that Zelda games are not subtle. And things like this are not uncommon in the series, actually. Zelda games are actually surprisingly subtle, maybe not about the major plot twists, but each of them has dozens of small moments you'll miss if you aren't paying attention.
Don't believe me? Here are some more:
Impa is Zelda's nursemaid in Ocarina of Time. She's one of the Sheikah, the lost dark tribe of Hyrule. Other than Sheik (who, as we know, is actually Zelda and not a Sheikah at all), she's the only Sheikah who appears in the game. There is an abandoned Sheikah village in Twilight Princess the player must visit during the game, but it doesn't really tell us much about these people. Impa's life, also, is a mystery. We're told that Kakariko Village was originally a Sheikah town that Impa opened up for the Hylians, and that's just about all we ever really find out about them.
Impa herself is a reference to the cartoon introduction to the original Legend of Zelda's instruction manual, in which a character by that name introduces the traveling adventurer boy Link to the plight of the land and Zelda.
Many of Ocarina of Time's sages are named after towns in Zelda II. This fact is actually fairly well-known, but consider, for a moment, the character of Rauru, the guy who you meet after reaching Adult Link's time on the first occaision. Who is he? There are no clues. He only shows up a handful of times in the game, and he has no backstory.
That annoying owl in Ocarina of Time, who is always showing up in the first third of the game to hoot his tutorials at the player, has a name it turns out, but it's easy to miss. It's Kaepora Gabora. This fact, and a lot of other interesting trivia, is revealed by the gossip stones. (Which, amusingly, are called-back to in Wind Waker by the King during the great reveal.)
The biggest subtlety of the games, however, for my money has to be the war. OoT and Majora's Mask each hint that there was a period of great martial stuggle in Hyrule/Termina's recent history, wars that appear, oddly, to be unrelated to Ganon. The unseen king in Ocarina of Time is supposed to be a uniter, Link's unseen mother was fleeing from a conflict when she entrusted her child to the Deku Tree before she died, those Stalchildren in Hyrule Field (damn near the only monsters in that huge expanse) and the Shadow Temple both hint that there must have been a grievous bloody conflict to produce all those skeletons. Majora's Mask has the dead king and his retainers in that castle before the fourth dungeon, and the Garu (sp?) that lie hidden around nearby areas. Yet these wars are unknown to us. What is up with them? For such an important event, they barely go remarked upon by the characters of either game.
Dah-dah-dah-DAH: You have found a plate of beans! You can eat them, plant them, or overthink them! Keep them in your bottle!
posted by JHarris at 5:43 PM on June 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Back to da link... some of those memories really make me wanna play the games. Conker's Bad Fur Day, it sounda pretty good
posted by jcruelty at 5:52 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jcruelty at 5:52 PM on June 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I read most of the articles, and had a couple things to comment on, but by the time I realized this, I'd forgotten that the link had initially come from here and wrote it up as a blog post instead. Sorry if the self-link is regarded as poor taste.
posted by rifflesby at 6:00 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by rifflesby at 6:00 PM on June 5, 2009
One of the articles is on the Opera House sequence from Final Fantasy VI (III). I played back through the GBA remake of FFVI a few years ago, and while the game as a whole definitely holds up, the Opera House sequence, which was awesome when the game was new, just wasn't all that impressive in the 360/PS3 era. However, the other part of FFVI they cover, Celes and Cid on the solitary island, does hold up, since its greatness is due to the storytelling and not due to then-novel graphics/music trickery.
Also, I thought I had done everything you could do in Chrono Trigger, but I don't remember ever saving Lucca's mom. I guess that's as good an excuse as any to play it again. What an amazing game.
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:30 PM on June 5, 2009
Also, I thought I had done everything you could do in Chrono Trigger, but I don't remember ever saving Lucca's mom. I guess that's as good an excuse as any to play it again. What an amazing game.
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:30 PM on June 5, 2009
ok, I'm pretty much just thinking of Planescape: Torment
Man, everyone has always told me how great this game is. I wish I could make myself play it for more than a couple of hours.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:01 PM on June 5, 2009
Man, everyone has always told me how great this game is. I wish I could make myself play it for more than a couple of hours.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:01 PM on June 5, 2009
God, there's some nice stuff in this column, but the pages slow Firefox to a crawl, damn them!
posted by JHarris at 7:03 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by JHarris at 7:03 PM on June 5, 2009
I totally agree w/ him on the Psycho Mantis moment... that was crazy
posted by jcruelty at 7:55 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by jcruelty at 7:55 PM on June 5, 2009
All right, JHarris, I will feebly address your beans.
I'm not saying that the Zelda series doesn't have a rich and complex (and largely completely underutilized) backstory, just that his one example of memorable is not.
From Wind Waker, I think the most memorable moment was probably entering Hyrule Castle, under the sea, and finding it filled with statues mid-battle. It's been quite a long time, now, but I remember the music being really haunting and beautiful, and the whole castle seeming so creepy and tragic.
Tetra is a girl Link's age, strong-willed and flirty. It just seemed really obvious. If you want a good secret Zelda reveal, look to OoT. While at certain times during the story I started to think maybe Link was gay (because of the general sense I was getting from the songs he played with Sheik), never once did Sheik being Zelda cross my mind. In part, maybe that's because I'm an older, more cynical gamer now, but I think it was just a better designed reveal.
I wonder how many of your suggestions are actual attempts at crafting a perfect continuity, instead of just callbacks to previous Zeldas. I'm not a close enough follower of the lore to delve into the continuity; I tend to play and enjoy the games and move on. (Plus, I kind of ignored those damn spirit stones.)
The sad fact of it is we'll probably never see the war addressed directly in a game. It's too dark for a Zelda game, and despite the whoring of Mario, they've never really expanded their franchises into other types of games. Like, making a Hyrule SRPG, or something.
posted by graventy at 8:28 PM on June 5, 2009
I'm not saying that the Zelda series doesn't have a rich and complex (and largely completely underutilized) backstory, just that his one example of memorable is not.
From Wind Waker, I think the most memorable moment was probably entering Hyrule Castle, under the sea, and finding it filled with statues mid-battle. It's been quite a long time, now, but I remember the music being really haunting and beautiful, and the whole castle seeming so creepy and tragic.
Tetra is a girl Link's age, strong-willed and flirty. It just seemed really obvious. If you want a good secret Zelda reveal, look to OoT. While at certain times during the story I started to think maybe Link was gay (because of the general sense I was getting from the songs he played with Sheik), never once did Sheik being Zelda cross my mind. In part, maybe that's because I'm an older, more cynical gamer now, but I think it was just a better designed reveal.
I wonder how many of your suggestions are actual attempts at crafting a perfect continuity, instead of just callbacks to previous Zeldas. I'm not a close enough follower of the lore to delve into the continuity; I tend to play and enjoy the games and move on. (Plus, I kind of ignored those damn spirit stones.)
The sad fact of it is we'll probably never see the war addressed directly in a game. It's too dark for a Zelda game, and despite the whoring of Mario, they've never really expanded their franchises into other types of games. Like, making a Hyrule SRPG, or something.
posted by graventy at 8:28 PM on June 5, 2009
I don't think the Sheik thing was really all that subtle. We know Zelda's retainer was a Shiekah. That's a pretty strong hint, as was the feminine build.
posted by pwnguin at 9:24 PM on June 5, 2009
posted by pwnguin at 9:24 PM on June 5, 2009
Is okay graventy, I kind of geeked out for a bit there....
There are both dopey obvious and wonderfully understated things in each of the Zelda games. Tetra is kind of obvious, yeah. The King, however, has a much better revelation.
I'm not actually sure what the connecting timeline between the Zelda games is. Some of them seem obviously related, like Ocarina, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. But then how does Twilight Princess enter into things? There's also the matter of Wind Waker's ending which, amazingly, burns bridges. If you look at the "official" timeline, assuming there really is one sponsored by Nintendo Co. Limited as opposed to Nintendo of America, it doesn't really hold together very well. Even Ocarina of Time, which is officially the first game chronologically and seems to definitely be the origin of Ganon, contains a hint that Zelda and Link have a history in prior lives.
But anyway. I bring up the war because it's this awesome detail that adds up to precisely nothing. Just like the owl (supposed to be the former guardian of the land). Just like the cows in all the secret holes in OoT. Like the "distant nebula" the goddesses left for--the incredibly neglectful goddesses who left the triforce laying around for evil madmen to claim, who will flood the land rather than just stop a tyrant from conquering Hyrule.
posted by JHarris at 3:20 AM on June 6, 2009
There are both dopey obvious and wonderfully understated things in each of the Zelda games. Tetra is kind of obvious, yeah. The King, however, has a much better revelation.
I'm not actually sure what the connecting timeline between the Zelda games is. Some of them seem obviously related, like Ocarina, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. But then how does Twilight Princess enter into things? There's also the matter of Wind Waker's ending which, amazingly, burns bridges. If you look at the "official" timeline, assuming there really is one sponsored by Nintendo Co. Limited as opposed to Nintendo of America, it doesn't really hold together very well. Even Ocarina of Time, which is officially the first game chronologically and seems to definitely be the origin of Ganon, contains a hint that Zelda and Link have a history in prior lives.
But anyway. I bring up the war because it's this awesome detail that adds up to precisely nothing. Just like the owl (supposed to be the former guardian of the land). Just like the cows in all the secret holes in OoT. Like the "distant nebula" the goddesses left for--the incredibly neglectful goddesses who left the triforce laying around for evil madmen to claim, who will flood the land rather than just stop a tyrant from conquering Hyrule.
posted by JHarris at 3:20 AM on June 6, 2009
My favourite part of ICO is just before the leap. When you go through the gates, Yorda's behaviour and animation changes subtly, and she appears to be reluctant to leave the castle. You've been dragging her around the whole game, but suddenly something is different in the way she reacts, foreshadowing the imminent pivotal scene.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 4:08 AM on June 6, 2009
posted by inpHilltr8r at 4:08 AM on June 6, 2009
Okay, since this is a thread for fannish game nerds, can someone please tell me how the Ivalice in Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and Final Fantasy Tactics A2 are related to each other? (Not to mention the FF XII and FF XII: Revenant Wings connection. ) Because they all seem to be different, er, Ivalices and yet there are character overlaps and tantalizing similarities that are actually differences, and it's driving me nuts.
posted by bettafish at 5:58 PM on June 6, 2009
posted by bettafish at 5:58 PM on June 6, 2009
That I am. I never tried to resurrect Aeris with goofy codes or complicated cheats either.
Well, that's perfectly logical: if not for the fact that she was my party's primary healer, I wouldn't have minded her getting the ol' six-foot sword a whole disk earlier. She's no Tifa, I'll tell you that.
Even Ocarina of Time, which is officially the first game chronologically and seems to definitely be the origin of Ganon, contains a hint that Zelda and Link have a history in prior lives.
That's my theory. I believe it's Wind Waker that strongly hints that there are multiple "Links" throughout the ages, rising to beat down Gannon (who there seems to be only one of, interestingly) when the need arises. It possibly even explains the name somewhat -- they're all "Links" in a single great heroic chain.
Okay, since this is a thread for fannish game nerds, can someone please tell me how the Ivalice in Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and Final Fantasy Tactics A2 are related to each other?
As best I can tell, FFTA, FFTA2, FFXII, and FFXII: RW are all roughly the same version of Ivalice (mostly because the races and Judges match up). The Ivalice from plain old Final Fantasy Tactics is either significantly before or after the other games; I'd say after, since it's easier to imagine some races going extinct rather than popping up.
To add another wrinkle, there's one more game set in Ivalice (and since it's my all time favorite PS1 game, the reason I've actually thought about all this): Vagrant Story. In spite of being the second game to come out set in Ivalice (after the original Tactics), it's probably the last one chronologically: the characters are exclusively human, and none of them actually even believe in any sort of supernatural phenomena until they're confronted with it.
Lastly: what straight said, big time.
posted by Amanojaku at 11:15 PM on June 6, 2009
Well, that's perfectly logical: if not for the fact that she was my party's primary healer, I wouldn't have minded her getting the ol' six-foot sword a whole disk earlier. She's no Tifa, I'll tell you that.
Even Ocarina of Time, which is officially the first game chronologically and seems to definitely be the origin of Ganon, contains a hint that Zelda and Link have a history in prior lives.
That's my theory. I believe it's Wind Waker that strongly hints that there are multiple "Links" throughout the ages, rising to beat down Gannon (who there seems to be only one of, interestingly) when the need arises. It possibly even explains the name somewhat -- they're all "Links" in a single great heroic chain.
Okay, since this is a thread for fannish game nerds, can someone please tell me how the Ivalice in Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and Final Fantasy Tactics A2 are related to each other?
As best I can tell, FFTA, FFTA2, FFXII, and FFXII: RW are all roughly the same version of Ivalice (mostly because the races and Judges match up). The Ivalice from plain old Final Fantasy Tactics is either significantly before or after the other games; I'd say after, since it's easier to imagine some races going extinct rather than popping up.
To add another wrinkle, there's one more game set in Ivalice (and since it's my all time favorite PS1 game, the reason I've actually thought about all this): Vagrant Story. In spite of being the second game to come out set in Ivalice (after the original Tactics), it's probably the last one chronologically: the characters are exclusively human, and none of them actually even believe in any sort of supernatural phenomena until they're confronted with it.
Lastly: what straight said, big time.
posted by Amanojaku at 11:15 PM on June 6, 2009
I think Ivalice became prominent when the Final Fantasy Tactics director took on a larger role in the production of other games. Myself, I actually think it's a little better when the game world isn't explicitly named. Look at us: we don't so much have a name for our planet but use it as a proper noun version for the stuff it's made of: earth. Is the world of Final Fantasy Tactics made of ivalice?
posted by JHarris at 4:51 AM on June 7, 2009
posted by JHarris at 4:51 AM on June 7, 2009
A friend of mine had StarTropics as a kid but didn't have the manual. I'd go over to his house and we would play it and I remember being upset when we got stuck because of that code. Eventually he figured it out by trying every three-digit code possible, one by one.
posted by Nedroid at 6:01 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Nedroid at 6:01 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Another advantage to not tying together game worlds is avoiding the fan wankery that tries to establish timelines for your convoluted, half-thought-out world.
The only thing that the name Ivalice provides is the familiar races and a familiar setting. It's yet another way to attract fans of the original game. However, I don't feel like the use of a setting is generally connected to a coherent picture of a world.
With Zelda and Hyrule, for instance. I'd like to think that Zelda HQ has a huge timeline on the wall depicted when every game happened, when the big Hyrulean events occurred, and so on. I just doubt that much work is put into the continuity.
posted by graventy at 12:36 PM on June 8, 2009
The only thing that the name Ivalice provides is the familiar races and a familiar setting. It's yet another way to attract fans of the original game. However, I don't feel like the use of a setting is generally connected to a coherent picture of a world.
With Zelda and Hyrule, for instance. I'd like to think that Zelda HQ has a huge timeline on the wall depicted when every game happened, when the big Hyrulean events occurred, and so on. I just doubt that much work is put into the continuity.
posted by graventy at 12:36 PM on June 8, 2009
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
The letter trick from StarTropics was echoed in Metal Gear Solid, which is where I remember it from ("Look on the back of the case, Snake!")
Also, spoilers abound!
posted by graventy at 8:18 AM on June 5, 2009