Darkseid IS!
June 17, 2009 9:26 AM Subscribe
I think I need to know my geek lore a bit more to really appreciate these, but the fourth frame rings true in odd ways I do not comprehend.
And somehow, the New Gods Darkseid plastic representation is suitably comical. He looks more fleshy than burly, as compared to golden gods from other lines of action figures (and other universes).
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2009
And somehow, the New Gods Darkseid plastic representation is suitably comical. He looks more fleshy than burly, as compared to golden gods from other lines of action figures (and other universes).
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2009
that's pretty great. what I always liked about these remixes is the idea of seeing a character in his quiet, contemplative moments. In something serious like New Gods, it makes me wish that there had been this access to the contemplative Darkseid in the actual books.
Of course, that wasn't Kirby's style, bless his heart.
posted by shmegegge at 9:51 AM on June 17, 2009
Of course, that wasn't Kirby's style, bless his heart.
posted by shmegegge at 9:51 AM on June 17, 2009
I think it's funny as hell that the figure review there complains about proportions when Kirby's proportions were always all over the place - anatomical correctness always took a back seat to expressiveness. The wrong pallette and insufficient cragginess are far more serious charges.
posted by Artw at 10:07 AM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:07 AM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Kirby is god, by the way...
posted by jpburns at 10:16 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jpburns at 10:16 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
So, if I take the time to read all of these, will Final Crisis start to make sense?
posted by jbickers at 10:18 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jbickers at 10:18 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
So, if I take the time to read all of these, will Final Crisis start to make sense?
SPOILERS: bad guys fight good guys
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:21 AM on June 17, 2009
SPOILERS: bad guys fight good guys
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:21 AM on June 17, 2009
Final Crisis makes a lot more sense if you ignore everything that ties into Final Crisis that isn't by Grant Morrison. [/Morrison apologist]
(Also it was all DC Editorials fault)
(Look, 2008/early 2009 just wasn't a good time for being a Morrison fan)
posted by Artw at 10:24 AM on June 17, 2009
(Also it was all DC Editorials fault)
(Look, 2008/early 2009 just wasn't a good time for being a Morrison fan)
posted by Artw at 10:24 AM on June 17, 2009
(Look, 2008/early 2009 just wasn't a good time for being a Morrison fan)
The best thing about Grant Morrison is that his haters (a) make themselves loudly known and (b) tend to represent exactly the elements I hate about comics fandom...the fanboy entitlement, the endless whining, the insistence that pseudo-Mamet and a startling lack of anything the fuck at all happening on a page constitutes "realism," the belief that somehow realism is a desirable component of a superhero comic book anyway, etc. So as soon as they start their bitching about Final Crisis, I know immediately what they're about and try to steer the conversation into friendlier waters, like politics or religion.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:32 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
The best thing about Grant Morrison is that his haters (a) make themselves loudly known and (b) tend to represent exactly the elements I hate about comics fandom...the fanboy entitlement, the endless whining, the insistence that pseudo-Mamet and a startling lack of anything the fuck at all happening on a page constitutes "realism," the belief that somehow realism is a desirable component of a superhero comic book anyway, etc. So as soon as they start their bitching about Final Crisis, I know immediately what they're about and try to steer the conversation into friendlier waters, like politics or religion.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:32 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Hey, the new Batman and Robin is rocking.
posted by Artw at 10:36 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:36 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm still not sure how I feel about Final Crisis, either as a singular work, or as a larger part in the longform superhero universe. I think there are definitely some honest structural problems, ie putting the real foe in a spinoff (or tie-in if you must), and then having him show up in the final pages of the main deal without much in the way of explanation, thus meaning that people needed to buy the other book to get it. I'm not complaining that I had to buy another book, I had already bought it (come on, 3D!). I'm more complaining that this wasn't part of the main book in the first place.
I think the other structural problem is that the "hypercompression" often led to some confusing narrative. But that might be a feature, not a bug. I do like that I can explain the structural issues as part of and function of the plot, that Darkseid's fall and fall through time to becoming a black hole is what led to it.
Man, I think my English major nerdiness and my comic book nerdiness just converged. I'm not sure if I should be proud or ashamed.
That said, I did enjoy a great deal of Final Crisis. Definitely more than the misogynistic superhero sadfest of Identity Crisis. I'll give this to Morrison, dude knows how to write some serious moments.
posted by X-Himy at 10:41 AM on June 17, 2009
I think the other structural problem is that the "hypercompression" often led to some confusing narrative. But that might be a feature, not a bug. I do like that I can explain the structural issues as part of and function of the plot, that Darkseid's fall and fall through time to becoming a black hole is what led to it.
Man, I think my English major nerdiness and my comic book nerdiness just converged. I'm not sure if I should be proud or ashamed.
That said, I did enjoy a great deal of Final Crisis. Definitely more than the misogynistic superhero sadfest of Identity Crisis. I'll give this to Morrison, dude knows how to write some serious moments.
posted by X-Himy at 10:41 AM on June 17, 2009
kittens for breakfast - word. I'm fully in support of Morrison's apparent drive to return DC's tone, at least in part, to Silver Age-style wildness. It's especially fun to see this done by a former Vertigo-only writer, since all the superhero writers of the nineties seemed to think that the way to make their comics more "realistic and mature" was to drain all the fun and whimsy out of them. Now that a bunch of those fringe writers from the nineties have infiltrated the mainstream, things are getting wild again in a really exciting way.
For instance: the new Batman and Robin series. Ten years ago, I never would have believed that the comic I was most excited about would be one that consciously tried to channel the tone of the old Adam West series into the modern Batman mythos.
As for the subject of this FPP, I'm all in favor of anything that brings more Darkseid into our lives. Darkseid IS. And, Kirby lived, Kirby lives, Kirby will live!
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:44 AM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
For instance: the new Batman and Robin series. Ten years ago, I never would have believed that the comic I was most excited about would be one that consciously tried to channel the tone of the old Adam West series into the modern Batman mythos.
As for the subject of this FPP, I'm all in favor of anything that brings more Darkseid into our lives. Darkseid IS. And, Kirby lived, Kirby lives, Kirby will live!
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:44 AM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
The new B&R is awesome, but I can't wait for someone to put the smack down on that little bitch that is the new Robin.
Final Crisis felt like about 80% setup, 20% payoff. It kinda reminded me of one time when I was a little kid, and decided to write a "book" on my dad's typewriter. So I got five sheets of paper, stacked them and folded them in half to make a booklet, and numbered the half-pages - then put them into the typewriter in the proper order, making up the story as I went along.
Of course, my pacing was terrible and by the time I got down to having a page and a half of space left I still hadn't started the big finale. So a lot of stuff happened, very hurriedly, in those last few pages.
Yeah, that's what Final Crisis took me back to.
posted by jbickers at 10:46 AM on June 17, 2009
Final Crisis felt like about 80% setup, 20% payoff. It kinda reminded me of one time when I was a little kid, and decided to write a "book" on my dad's typewriter. So I got five sheets of paper, stacked them and folded them in half to make a booklet, and numbered the half-pages - then put them into the typewriter in the proper order, making up the story as I went along.
Of course, my pacing was terrible and by the time I got down to having a page and a half of space left I still hadn't started the big finale. So a lot of stuff happened, very hurriedly, in those last few pages.
Yeah, that's what Final Crisis took me back to.
posted by jbickers at 10:46 AM on June 17, 2009
I was just reading the first DC Kirby Omnibus and was kind of shocked at what a loser Darkseid was to begin with.
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the first time we see him (Jimmy Olsen #134), his big scheme is to plant a small bomb on the Newsboy Legion and their Whiz Wagon, all with the intent of killing the Hairies and their Mountain of Judgement.
They find the bomb. And pluck it off. And - that's it, basically. Darkseid's response?
“Do nothing! Your plan has failed! I shall contact you soon!”
Not exactly Doctor Doom there.
posted by stinkycheese at 10:47 AM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the first time we see him (Jimmy Olsen #134), his big scheme is to plant a small bomb on the Newsboy Legion and their Whiz Wagon, all with the intent of killing the Hairies and their Mountain of Judgement.
They find the bomb. And pluck it off. And - that's it, basically. Darkseid's response?
“Do nothing! Your plan has failed! I shall contact you soon!”
Not exactly Doctor Doom there.
posted by stinkycheese at 10:47 AM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I won't pretend I fully absorbed Final Crisis on my first read (or even my second) but I really dug it. I'm down with the hypercompression, as I felt it really put across the chaos the DCU was plunged into. Something awful went down all over the world, all at once, catching the Justice League et al. with their pants down. The readers got to be confused right along with them - I thought it was a really effective technique.
My favorite bit? (Spoiler Alert) - the words on Superman's tombstone in Superman Beyond - "To Be Continued." Fuck. Yes.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:54 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
My favorite bit? (Spoiler Alert) - the words on Superman's tombstone in Superman Beyond - "To Be Continued." Fuck. Yes.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:54 AM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Final Crisis isn't a patch on Morrions JLA run. Some quality Darkseid action there.
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on June 17, 2009
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on June 17, 2009
I like how these made Darkseid into a completely different character.
posted by The Whelk at 11:10 AM on June 17, 2009
posted by The Whelk at 11:10 AM on June 17, 2009
Final Crisis isn't a patch on Morrions JLA run. Some quality Darkseid action there.
Yeah, no kidding. My biggest problem in the early stages of Final Crisis was thinking that there was no way it was going to live up to the big Darkseid confrontation in Rock of Ages.
posted by COBRA! at 11:11 AM on June 17, 2009
Yeah, no kidding. My biggest problem in the early stages of Final Crisis was thinking that there was no way it was going to live up to the big Darkseid confrontation in Rock of Ages.
posted by COBRA! at 11:11 AM on June 17, 2009
This is making me stifle my laughter so I don't have to try to explain to my boss exactly who this lumpy grey dude is and why his disjointed monologues are so damn hilarious.
But then again I am the proud owner of all four volumes of the recent collection of Jack's original run on New Gods.
I have no comment on Final Crisis. My boyfriend picked up a couple issues 'cause he's a fan of Morrison's stuff, I looked at 'em and said "huh, NOW IS THE TIME WHEN EVEN NEW GODS DIE', and never bothered hunting for more when he didn't bother getting later issues. I'm sure Orion will be back someday, if he isn't resurrected somewhere before the end of Final Crisis.
posted by egypturnash at 12:37 PM on June 17, 2009
But then again I am the proud owner of all four volumes of the recent collection of Jack's original run on New Gods.
I have no comment on Final Crisis. My boyfriend picked up a couple issues 'cause he's a fan of Morrison's stuff, I looked at 'em and said "huh, NOW IS THE TIME WHEN EVEN NEW GODS DIE', and never bothered hunting for more when he didn't bother getting later issues. I'm sure Orion will be back someday, if he isn't resurrected somewhere before the end of Final Crisis.
posted by egypturnash at 12:37 PM on June 17, 2009
IIRC He already got killed and resurrected in Death Of The New Gods. I didn't read that one though.
posted by Artw at 12:49 PM on June 17, 2009
posted by Artw at 12:49 PM on June 17, 2009
Artw: Don't read DotNG. It didn't resurrect Orion, but only killed him, a month before he died in Final Crisis. That might tell you something about how necessary it is, continuity-wise.
And speaking of Morrison, the latest Seaguy was awesome & brilliant.
posted by Pronoiac at 1:30 PM on June 17, 2009
And speaking of Morrison, the latest Seaguy was awesome & brilliant.
posted by Pronoiac at 1:30 PM on June 17, 2009
I believe that accordng to some DC types the resurrection, in order to be killed again, is implied somehow if you look at the some total of all the titles. I suspect this is handwaving bollocks.
posted by Artw at 1:33 PM on June 17, 2009
posted by Artw at 1:33 PM on June 17, 2009
How oddly... appropiate. I have no problem imagining Darkseid would go bonkers and start spouting unconnected profundities if he had no one to spiritually stomp on around his throne.
posted by Iosephus at 2:19 PM on June 17, 2009
posted by Iosephus at 2:19 PM on June 17, 2009
I'm just happy to see excerpts from the FOREVER PEOPLE even if the actual forever people aren't visible in the panels.
posted by wittgenstein at 2:25 PM on June 17, 2009
posted by wittgenstein at 2:25 PM on June 17, 2009
Now all we need do is stub Darkseid's speeches into Jon's mouth and the Anti-Life Equation will be complete.
posted by benzenedream at 4:47 PM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 4:47 PM on June 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Man, I thought Morrison's All-Star Superman was the best Superman has been, like, ever, and I still pick up anything with Animal Man in it, thanks to what GM did with the character, but ... Final Crisis? That seemed like the worst case of "Event!" comics, sans any narrative reason whatsoever, that I've ever seen. Sooo disappointing. And again: that's coming from someone who thought the Seven Soldiers of Victory mini-series was waaay better than the "more important" Infinite Crisis going on at the same time.
Maybe the man just got weighed down by the demands of corporate DC or whatever.
As for the links: I think "I am the storm! But not a wedding" is such a keeper. I feel like I would want to keep playing that game with Darkseid, over and over: "Are you ... a volcano or a mango?"
posted by Amanojaku at 7:27 PM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Maybe the man just got weighed down by the demands of corporate DC or whatever.
As for the links: I think "I am the storm! But not a wedding" is such a keeper. I feel like I would want to keep playing that game with Darkseid, over and over: "Are you ... a volcano or a mango?"
posted by Amanojaku at 7:27 PM on June 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
The first one I recognize as the panels from Forever People where Darkseid, on Earth testing out the Equation, is accosted by a little girl and her grandfather. The grandfather talks about all the costumed monsters around, which prompts Darkseid's reaction.
I'm no expert on comics, but that's one of my favorite bits from the early days of the character. That and the New Gods sequence which reveals some of the character's history, where we find out Darkseid isn't anything like evil incarnate; he's got a personality, when not in power he's a watcher and a schemer.
Kirby once said he patterned the character, in part, on Richard Nixon.
posted by JHarris at 1:14 AM on June 18, 2009
I'm no expert on comics, but that's one of my favorite bits from the early days of the character. That and the New Gods sequence which reveals some of the character's history, where we find out Darkseid isn't anything like evil incarnate; he's got a personality, when not in power he's a watcher and a schemer.
Kirby once said he patterned the character, in part, on Richard Nixon.
posted by JHarris at 1:14 AM on June 18, 2009
kittens for breakfast,
That's a little unfair. It's not even possible to criticize Final Crisis in any way without being an uncultured fanboy boor? I'd be interested in hearing your take on FC, because some people here have offered some thoughtful critiques of it.
stinkycheese
Not exactly Doctor Doom there.
As much as I love love love Doom, don't forget that in his first appearance involved him going back in time to steal Blackbeard's treasure...you can't judge a badass by his first outing. It takes time to find your feet!
posted by Sangermaine at 10:49 AM on June 18, 2009
That's a little unfair. It's not even possible to criticize Final Crisis in any way without being an uncultured fanboy boor? I'd be interested in hearing your take on FC, because some people here have offered some thoughtful critiques of it.
stinkycheese
Not exactly Doctor Doom there.
As much as I love love love Doom, don't forget that in his first appearance involved him going back in time to steal Blackbeard's treasure...you can't judge a badass by his first outing. It takes time to find your feet!
posted by Sangermaine at 10:49 AM on June 18, 2009
It's funnier if it's Latvia. Adds a certain something to Eurovision.
posted by Artw at 11:22 AM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:22 AM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wow.
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Obama’s victory and Darkseid’s in Final Crisis?
Each has a legion of mind-numbed sheeple at his back and call, one thanks to the Anti-Life Equation, the other thanks to repeating “Hope and Change” over and over again. “The Day Evil Won”, indeed…
posted by Artw at 2:46 PM on June 18, 2009
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Obama’s victory and Darkseid’s in Final Crisis?
Each has a legion of mind-numbed sheeple at his back and call, one thanks to the Anti-Life Equation, the other thanks to repeating “Hope and Change” over and over again. “The Day Evil Won”, indeed…
posted by Artw at 2:46 PM on June 18, 2009
That's a little unfair. It's not even possible to criticize Final Crisis in any way without being an uncultured fanboy boor?
Oh, it's very possible -- and I certainly don't think it's a perfect book -- but as a general guideline, yeah, the people who are all "I don't understaaaannnnddddd" tend to conform to an unlovely stereotype that also seems to fit like 75% of the people who read mainstream comic books. "I didn't like it; I thought it was self-indulgent noise" is one thing; quite another is "I didn't understand it." How much spoonfeeding does a reader need? How used to being spoonfed is the average reader of this stuff, at this point? It's a fucking story about an evil space god trying to destroy superheroes. How is that hard to follow?
For me, I think FC is less than the sum of its parts, but many of those parts are pretty worthwhile. Batman's fight with Darkseid is alone several times fresher than just about anything I've seen come out of mainstream Marvel or DC in a few years (which is saying very little). If the story seems to disintegrate more than it actually ends, that is a disappointment; but if it's a narrative failure, it's a downright glorious one. I'd rather read something that shoots for the moon and doesn't quite make it than something that succeeds at underachieving.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2009
Oh, it's very possible -- and I certainly don't think it's a perfect book -- but as a general guideline, yeah, the people who are all "I don't understaaaannnnddddd" tend to conform to an unlovely stereotype that also seems to fit like 75% of the people who read mainstream comic books. "I didn't like it; I thought it was self-indulgent noise" is one thing; quite another is "I didn't understand it." How much spoonfeeding does a reader need? How used to being spoonfed is the average reader of this stuff, at this point? It's a fucking story about an evil space god trying to destroy superheroes. How is that hard to follow?
For me, I think FC is less than the sum of its parts, but many of those parts are pretty worthwhile. Batman's fight with Darkseid is alone several times fresher than just about anything I've seen come out of mainstream Marvel or DC in a few years (which is saying very little). If the story seems to disintegrate more than it actually ends, that is a disappointment; but if it's a narrative failure, it's a downright glorious one. I'd rather read something that shoots for the moon and doesn't quite make it than something that succeeds at underachieving.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2009
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posted by klangklangston at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2009