Why's he calling me meat? I'm the one driving a Porsche.
July 20, 2009 6:42 AM Subscribe
The acquisition of Porsche by Volkswagen, just weeks after a Porsche attempt to take over VW via a series of complex stock options backfired,
appears to be the latest salvo in the longstanding feud between cousins Ferdinand Piech and Wolfgang Porsche.
Back in May, Wolfgang Porsche sought investments from Qatar to shore up Porsche's finances and vowed that “Porsche AG will not be sold to Volkswagen.”
Back in May, Wolfgang Porsche sought investments from Qatar to shore up Porsche's finances and vowed that “Porsche AG will not be sold to Volkswagen.”
Volkswagens made by Porsche vs Porsches made by Volkswagen. I honestly can't think which I'd rather own.
posted by DU at 6:47 AM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 6:47 AM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
A Civic?
posted by majick at 6:54 AM on July 20, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by majick at 6:54 AM on July 20, 2009 [4 favorites]
Cousin Ferdinand and Cousin Wolfgang fighting with their old money.
For some reason, I keep imagining a Monty Python sketch with two snooty kings, each lobbing cows at the castle of the other.
posted by rokusan at 7:00 AM on July 20, 2009
For some reason, I keep imagining a Monty Python sketch with two snooty kings, each lobbing cows at the castle of the other.
posted by rokusan at 7:00 AM on July 20, 2009
Yeah, but instead of cows, they're hurling horseless carriages.
posted by notyou at 7:04 AM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 7:04 AM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
Cousin Ferdinand and Cousin Wolfgang fighting with their old money.
Ich kann viel weiter pinkeln als Du!!
Das werden wir mal sehen, lieber Cousin!!
posted by chillmost at 7:07 AM on July 20, 2009 [4 favorites]
Ich kann viel weiter pinkeln als Du!!
Das werden wir mal sehen, lieber Cousin!!
posted by chillmost at 7:07 AM on July 20, 2009 [4 favorites]
And in another ironic twist, Poland is making plans to invade Germany.
posted by bigskyguy at 7:07 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by bigskyguy at 7:07 AM on July 20, 2009
Volkswagens made by Porsche vs Porsches made by Volkswagen. I honestly can't think which I'd rather own
Allow me to help.
A Volkswagen made by Porsche. A Porsche made by Volkswagen.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:23 AM on July 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
Allow me to help.
A Volkswagen made by Porsche. A Porsche made by Volkswagen.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:23 AM on July 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
Oh, and another - the 924.
For the record, I'd rather have a Porsche made by Volkswagen. I might just take a Veyron if someone was kind enough to buy it and its insurance and secure the mortgage for my fuel bill. And Lamborghinis have got a lot better since Audi got involved (or so I'm reliably informed).
posted by MuffinMan at 7:26 AM on July 20, 2009
For the record, I'd rather have a Porsche made by Volkswagen. I might just take a Veyron if someone was kind enough to buy it and its insurance and secure the mortgage for my fuel bill. And Lamborghinis have got a lot better since Audi got involved (or so I'm reliably informed).
posted by MuffinMan at 7:26 AM on July 20, 2009
To be fair, VW and Porsche have been intertwined to various degrees for ages (along with Audi at one point.) This is, really, something that has been more-or-less inevitable. The only question has been "How many eons it would take for one to acquire/control the other?"
The next question will be "How long will it take for VW to divest itself of Porsche?"
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on July 20, 2009
The next question will be "How long will it take for VW to divest itself of Porsche?"
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on July 20, 2009
Here's a rundown of what transpired last year to give Porsche around 70% ownership of VW, however it seems that they couldn't raise the cash to exercise their options, which could explain what's happening here.
posted by splatta at 7:33 AM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by splatta at 7:33 AM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
Apparently VW has just turned around and bought out their majority shareholder:
On the other hand, Saab has gone from being an stomped-upon appendage of GM that had its personality sucked out of it to being taken over by a niche independent carmaker.
posted by deanc at 7:36 AM on July 20, 2009
An insolvency could have grave consequences for VW as well. Porsche has a 50.8 percent stake in the company. If the sports car manufacturer were to fail, these shares could be swiftly sold to a Chinese automotive company, or perhaps even a buyout firm.There's something appealing about buying a sportscar from an independent niche carmaker, and now Porsche no longer offers that.
On the other hand, Saab has gone from being an stomped-upon appendage of GM that had its personality sucked out of it to being taken over by a niche independent carmaker.
posted by deanc at 7:36 AM on July 20, 2009
I remember VW, Porsche, and Audi used to be sold through the same dealer network, and I always assumed the companies were all under the same holding company. Clearly I was mistaken.
posted by Mister_A at 8:06 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by Mister_A at 8:06 AM on July 20, 2009
I'm no 'car guy' but reading about the feud between the families just completely sucked me in. It really does sound like Ferdinand Piech should have been the successor to Ferdinand Jr years ago but the Porsche family wasn't having any of that. Maybe someone who's been following this story more closely could tell me: is this just a case of "what goes around, comes around"?
posted by JaredSeth at 8:10 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by JaredSeth at 8:10 AM on July 20, 2009
The Saab deal sounds interesting, but I'll be mightily impressed if Koeniggsegg can make the considerable step up from niche hypercar manufacturer to volume player in executive cars.
That market has become much more competitive now that Lexus and Infiniti are both playing in it, Volkswagen, Skoda and others are seeking to cream the lower end of it and any serious contender still has to dislodge Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volvo.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:21 AM on July 20, 2009
That market has become much more competitive now that Lexus and Infiniti are both playing in it, Volkswagen, Skoda and others are seeking to cream the lower end of it and any serious contender still has to dislodge Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volvo.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:21 AM on July 20, 2009
If you look at the latest JD Power, Porsche is #2, while VW is tied for #15, below the industry average. Chevrolet, Ford, Cadillac, and Mercury all did better than VW.
posted by rfs at 8:40 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by rfs at 8:40 AM on July 20, 2009
Yeah, but instead of cows, they're hurling horseless carriages.
What time is it?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:49 AM on July 20, 2009 [3 favorites]
they're hurling horseless carriages
Q: What's the difference between a Porsche and a horse?
A: With a horse, the asshole's on the outside!
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:56 AM on July 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
Q: What's the difference between a Porsche and a horse?
A: With a horse, the asshole's on the outside!
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:56 AM on July 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
So now instead of awesome Volkswagens, we get shitty Porsches?
posted by Eideteker at 9:47 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by Eideteker at 9:47 AM on July 20, 2009
Other Volkswagens made by Porsche: the Kübelwagen (Germany's WWII jeep equivalent) and the amphibious Schwimmwagen.
Also the Tiger tank and the Elefant tank destroyer, originally named Ferdinand after Mr. Porsche.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:23 AM on July 20, 2009
Also the Tiger tank and the Elefant tank destroyer, originally named Ferdinand after Mr. Porsche.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:23 AM on July 20, 2009
Q: What's the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine?
A: With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside!
Yeah, yeah. Still, the 911 is one of the most fabulous cars on the road today. Its design is, overall, a bad idea raised and refined to near perfection. Each one is distinct and different and usually they are a blast to drive even though they can be very, very unkind when in uncaring hands and driven at their limits.
posted by bz at 10:33 AM on July 20, 2009
A: With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside!
Yeah, yeah. Still, the 911 is one of the most fabulous cars on the road today. Its design is, overall, a bad idea raised and refined to near perfection. Each one is distinct and different and usually they are a blast to drive even though they can be very, very unkind when in uncaring hands and driven at their limits.
posted by bz at 10:33 AM on July 20, 2009
You know who else liked Porsches and Volkswagens?
Although I think it was Mercedes who designed the truck that gassed your victims while riding to the mass grave so they'd be easier to kill and dump once you arrived.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:07 AM on July 20, 2009
Although I think it was Mercedes who designed the truck that gassed your victims while riding to the mass grave so they'd be easier to kill and dump once you arrived.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:07 AM on July 20, 2009
favorited just for the Bull Durham reference ...
posted by GatorDavid at 11:16 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by GatorDavid at 11:16 AM on July 20, 2009
I was wondering if anyone would get that, GatorDavid.
posted by JaredSeth at 11:44 AM on July 20, 2009
posted by JaredSeth at 11:44 AM on July 20, 2009
At least, from a technician's standpoint, they won't be going back to the Beetle/911 standard of service for anything. Step 1: REMOVE ENGINE, Step 2: etc.
Don't get me wrong, I can have an air-cooled Beetle engine out on the floor in 30 minutes or less, but 911's are several orders of magnitude more pain in the ass to work on. Our local Porsche/Audi shop's lead 911 mechanic HATES those cars, but won't stop working on them b/c it pays so well.
posted by rhythim at 12:10 PM on July 20, 2009
Don't get me wrong, I can have an air-cooled Beetle engine out on the floor in 30 minutes or less, but 911's are several orders of magnitude more pain in the ass to work on. Our local Porsche/Audi shop's lead 911 mechanic HATES those cars, but won't stop working on them b/c it pays so well.
posted by rhythim at 12:10 PM on July 20, 2009
"I was wondering if anyone would get that, GatorDavid."
Srsly?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 1:44 PM on July 20, 2009
Srsly?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 1:44 PM on July 20, 2009
"Don't get me wrong, I can have an air-cooled Beetle engine out on the floor in 30 minutes or less"
According to my dad, his '58 Beetle was something like "Take out these four bolts, undo these wires, set engine on ground, lift rear bumper, push car over engine", or something like that. 30 minutes was about right.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 1:47 PM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
According to my dad, his '58 Beetle was something like "Take out these four bolts, undo these wires, set engine on ground, lift rear bumper, push car over engine", or something like that. 30 minutes was about right.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 1:47 PM on July 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
Previous post on the Porsche-VW "atomic wedgie".Porsche's entertaining maneuvering to control all of VW's shares happened back in October. I marveled at it. Buying all of those shares would take a lot of credit to leverage the purchase. Why did it fail? Because of this stunner:
Since the collapse of the Lehman Brothers investment bank in September, 2008, companies around the world have had problems acquiring credit. Yet at the supervisory board meeting of Porsche Automobil Holding SE, on March 30, 2009, [Porsche CEO Wendelin] Wiedeking said that "up until a week before March 24," when the €10 billion in loans were due, he was "not aware of the worsening credit situation." He also said that he didn't find out about the banks' draconian conditions for the new contracts until after he started taking part in the negotiations himself.Their CEO had no idea until just this past March that the credit markets had basically ground to a halt and had become a huge mess.
Porsche was in the middle of attempting a highly leveraged buyout of VW using stock options to squeeze all the short sellers out of their position and acquiring control (if not ownership) of a large majority of VW's shares, while apparently not even reading the news about what was going on in world financial markets.
posted by deanc at 2:27 PM on July 20, 2009
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posted by bz at 6:47 AM on July 20, 2009