Green Revolution

September 14, 2009 1:07 AM

Many UK FreeCycle branches have suddenly broken away from the American parent, as a response to what they see as increasingly centralised (even dictatorial) management. Apparantly this has been boiling for a while. Now, they are calling themselves Freegle.

I realise you probably won't believe me, Metafilter being above all else Skeptical* but I've never had any dealings at all with FreeCycle (I tend to use things until they fall to bits), and until I read a link in a friend's Twitter feed this morning, I thought the only problems were with second-hand dealers grabbing all the good stuff and greedy people asking for free Ferraris. I find all this fascinating, partly as a study of the corrupting effects of power, partly as a celebration of British bolshiness. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

*With a capital S and a k.

posted by Grangousier (58 comments total)

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

My guess is that the UK government will facilitate the extradition of the British activists under anti-terrorist legislation so that they can face charges in the US.
posted by Phanx at 1:28 AM on September 14, 2009 [11 favorites]

Grangousier: I think with something like this, people aren't going to be too bothered whether you're associated with freecycle or not. Besides, you've let the links do the talking without any editorialising, which is the best way to go about things. People can draw their own conclusions.

On the topic of your post: dammit. Freecycle was a nice, easy to remember name that could be uised to spread the word & now it's going to fragment into a bunch of less effective groups.
posted by pharm at 1:31 AM on September 14, 2009

A lot of jokes based on Italian stereotypes and waste management business?
posted by zouhair at 1:33 AM on September 14, 2009

See also RealCycle. My local Freecycle group became part of RealCycle in August 2007, citing the following reasons:

1. Many moderators are concerned about the recent Freecycle response to the DEFRA invitation. We do not believe that Freecycle UK should adopt a political stance other than its own remit to keep landfill waste down.

2. Those moderators, who stated their wish that the Directors of FreecycleUK should not take it upon themselves to put forward views that purport to represent the UK Freecycle membership (currently at 770,000), have been ignored.

3. Freecycle is currently developing a new website. It is widely believed that this new website will centralise Freecycle groups so that the community aspect is diluted or even lost altogether. There may be no local point of contact, i.e. local moderators.

4. We are told that the transition to the new website will be entirely voluntary Perhaps in the beginning, yes, but Freecycle will eventually insist that all groups migrate from their current Yahoo platform to the new site or lose their listing on the directory.

5. Throughout the Freecycle global community any moderators who question or offer an alternative viewpoint have found themselves on permanent moderation on Freecycle discussion groups or even had their groups taken from them.

6. Freecycle is in a state of disarray and confusion at the present time. Many groups have been locked down, moderators removed from their groups (bear in mind that all mods give their time voluntarily and many have spent several years building up their groups in order to benefit their community) and there is no one central source of information.

7. TFN's (The Freecycle Network) main sponsor in the U.S. is a company called Waste Management Inc. This company has, in the past been guilty of (and fined for) several incidents involving the illegal dumping of toxic waste.

So this rift has been around for at least a couple of years now. Sounds like Freecycle is learning some harsh lessons about community-building...
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 1:40 AM on September 14, 2009

My local group switched alliances a few years ago to Full Circles, which is a Canadian equivalent that appears to have split off for similar reasons.
posted by parudox at 1:44 AM on September 14, 2009

Is there any precedent for Internet splinter groups to become bigger and better than the original one? I can definitely sympathize with people wanting to get out from under the smelly corporate umbrella, but I wonder what the long term outlook is here.
posted by crapmatic at 2:11 AM on September 14, 2009

The Guardian's green living blogger mentioned this a few days ago, before the freegle name had been announced. The comments thread there is interesting. Apparently Freecycle or their supporters are cybersquatting some Freegle names (e.g.) on Yahoo groups.
posted by Slogby at 2:28 AM on September 14, 2009

Metafilter being above all else Skeptical*

I desire to thank you, sir, for explicitly acknowledging my sovereignity over this realm.
posted by Skeptic at 2:43 AM on September 14, 2009 [3 favorites]

Q: Excuse me, is this the Judean People's Freecycle?

A: Fuck off! We're the People's Freecycle of Judea.

Q: Can I join your group?

A: No, piss off.
posted by stavrogin at 2:47 AM on September 14, 2009 [5 favorites]

I tried to join FreeCycle at three years ago and had my application denied because I never bothered write some sort of essay on what FreeCycle means to me or some such. I didn't really want to just a movement, just wanted to get rid of some stuff.
posted by octothorpe at 3:22 AM on September 14, 2009

So strange. I've happily used freecycle in the UK and US and never even noticed anything behind the scenes. It seems odd that this could escalate to the point where there is a schism. After all, it's just about people reusing things - it shouldn't really be too complicated.
posted by a womble is an active kind of sloth at 3:23 AM on September 14, 2009

Freecycle has always vaguely interested me in that way that means you never actually type their name into google, but you always mean to.

I just clicked that Freegle link and looked at my local group...

It's a Yahoo Groups site which appears to be nothing but 12 year olds and idiots asking pseudo science questions about recycling, and getting wrong, stupid and political answers in return. And they all insist on a capital letter on the word 'pollution'.

I'm sure other groups do better than the sprawling mess of Chavtown, but that's depressing...
posted by twine42 at 3:29 AM on September 14, 2009

Okay... I just visited the Local Freecycle site and discovered the exact same questions. Apparently:
1) I'm an idiot
b) you can't see anything in the freecycle or freegle networks without logging in
iii) The stupid questions are Yahoo Answers not the free(.*) groups.
posted by twine42 at 3:33 AM on September 14, 2009

I tried Freecycle for awhile, but got sick of posts taking a day and a half to be "approved" and endless mass emails from moderators chiding the Freecyclers at large for some minor deviance from the ideal. Craigslist's free stuff listing serves the same purpose, minus the ideological tests.
posted by pernoctalian at 3:53 AM on September 14, 2009 [4 favorites]

there is nothing quite as entertaining as watching a bunch of hippies slug it out. they're every bit as nasty as the right wingers they despise.
posted by krautland at 3:59 AM on September 14, 2009 [4 favorites]

My local FreeCycle group (Manchester) did some switching thing a year or so back: it's now RealCycle-Manchester, works on Yahoo! Groups, and works very well indeed. I know absolutely nothing of the politics, I just post stuff to get rid of and someone comes picks it up.
posted by alasdair at 4:03 AM on September 14, 2009

I was excited to join the local Freecycle group. Until (like pernoctalian) I got sick of waiting for my posts to be approved and then when I did post my own OFFER: the responses I got were "ME!" or "I WANT IT" and my favourite "MINE"
I replied to them to get manners.
posted by czechmate at 4:43 AM on September 14, 2009

Wow. It never occured to me that something as simple as Freecycle (a mailing list where people offer stuff, and other people offer to take it) could schizm. People care about it that much? There's a political dimension to it? Wow. I had no idea. I've subscribed to Freecycle groups in two cities, and the only annoying things were that (a) sometimes posts seem to take longer to get out to some people than others - I'd receive an email about an item on offer, and respond to it immediately, to be told the item had gone several hours ago and (b) some people were rude, as czechmate described. However, people who are rude are generally quickly ignored.

I do remeber having to justify why I wanted to join when I signed up to the groups - I wrote a sentance about wanting to give stuff away and wanting to help relieve other people of their crap. That appeared good enough for the mods. I guess it varies from group to group, maybe groups in larger cities tend to descend into madness?
posted by Jimbob at 4:54 AM on September 14, 2009

I just leave shit outside my building and people take it away, presumably to use or sell.

Is this something I'd have to be hip to know about?
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:01 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

The Toronto Freecycle group was basically hijacked and stolen by its owner awhile back for similar reasons. I moved back to the new Freecycle group after that happened, since I intensely disliked the way the owner handled that, and hadn't been particularly fond of her in the first place, whether she might have had a point about Freecycle itself either. Trading one dictatorial pain in the ass for another was no trade at all in my mind.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:05 AM on September 14, 2009

Is this something I'd have to be hip to know about?

No, it's something you'd have to not live in a den of thieves to know about.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 5:13 AM on September 14, 2009

I've been using the London one, and the only annoyance is when I gave my old PC away to someone who wanted to use it to look for a second home in France (she told me this when she came to pick it up) and then shortly after got a query abotu it from a family whose PC had broken and they could not afford to replace. But that's Freecycle, I guess. I still feel guilty about giving away a stereo I was bought for Christmas in 2002, then longed-for but now unused due to lack of space and tapes.

London and my local borough still seem to be Freecycle, so this is all new to me.
posted by mippy at 5:35 AM on September 14, 2009

I signed up for my local freecycle group a while back. Can't remember why, I was either trying to get rid of something or looking for something at the time.

I never did anything with it - I remember being hit immediately with a long, LONG email dictating the extent to which I could post anything, ask for anything, offer anything, etc. I think it reminded me of file-sharing, pre Bittorrent, where everything ran on credit - you can't ask for anything until you've proven you have something to give away yourself first. Which is a pretty shitty way to run an organization dedicated to keeping stuff out of the landfill. You'd think it would be a GOOD thing to have more people asking than offering - it means less shit is left over to throw away.

Craigslist has been the only place I've actually looked for things with success - or disposed of things without hassle. Our old couch went for free within 20 minutes of posting a "you haul it, it's yours" link. Given this crap, I think I'll stick to Craigslist. They don't send dictatorial emails.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:37 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Our local Freecycle group also formed their own entity because of the mothership some years ago, essentially becoming a Yahoo group. This splinter group was even /more/ crazy than the last, prompting me to never use it again.

I got rid of a lot of crap via FC and this local group, but both were so rife with politics and insane notions of what someone should and could do with the stuff they pick up /for free/ that I had to cut them loose for my own mental health.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:51 AM on September 14, 2009

I've used freecycle a number of times - mostly when I wanted to get rid of something but couldn't bring myself to just throw it away.

At some point in there, I noticed that the St. Louis version of Freecyle (or FreeCycle or FrEeCyClE or whatever) had changed it's name. Since I knew that Phr33('/(L3 was still out there I understood immediately that people who would never be trusted to do much more than ask "Would you like fries with that sir?" in real life, had gotten all uppity about some trivial BS or another.

We need a verb for having a good idea, and then, once your vision is a reality, turning into what you once hated most and running your good idea right into the shoals.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:56 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

I guess freecycle politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low.

Freecycle Toronto was hilarious. There was a months-long bitter battle over someone giving away kittens, which resulted in the use, in all seriousness, of the term "persons of fur". After that, there was a huge argy-bargy over posting used baby stuff - 'cos everyone knows that used = dead babby, of course.Then there were fights over moderators and breaking away from the Beal-borg. Every posting would receive about ten auto-responses within the first five seconds of "mine!", or shorter. This was back in 2004 or so.

There are now approximately seven splinter groups in Toronto. All seemingly as fraught with control-freaks as before. Craigslist free stuff is much less hassle.
posted by scruss at 6:06 AM on September 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Holy fucking shit. That "boiling" link is a must-read; it has lots of info about Deron's ridiculously controlling and vindictive management style, including some utterly asshole moves. Honestly, after reading it, I'm astonished that anyone with half a brain would have remained in the organization after 2006 or so:

Deron vowed over and over that TFN would never be commercialized: There would never be any ads, there would never be any money involved in any way...Deron got dollar signs in his eyes. He applied for a trademark for the logo; applied for 501(c)3 status; and began to seek funding, admitting openly that he wanted to "quit his day job." In the early spring of 2005, Deron announced -- after the fact -- that he had received a grant of $130,000 from Waste Management Corp. and had indeed quit his day job to work full time for TFN.

Many moderators were furious that the decision had been made without our input. There was a mass exodus of experienced moderators who felt that WMC -- whose environmental record is horrible -- was an inappropriate sponsor and/or felt that it was a betrayal for Deron to be supported financially by their volunteer work after he had promised repeatedly that he would never try to get money from the concept.

After that, Deron started being more and more controlling. He built an enormously complex, multilayered management structure -- yet the Board of Directors still consists of only three people: Deron himself, Deron's wife, and a close friend of theirs...

Once Deron was a full-time employee of TFN he became extremely secretive. He kept promising to release financial information, but it never happened. None of us in the rank and file know his job description or what he actually does all day to warrant a salary of $45,000 a year; what he bought with the thousands of TFN's dollars he spent to furnish his spare bedroom as an office (when he could have done it largely for free through his own organization!); what travel expenses he is taking out; who else is being paid and how much; and a great many other things that we would like to know about the organization we donate our time and energy to support.

People began asking questions about those things, and began to call for a real board of directors...But anyone who persisted in asking hard questions suddenly received a notice to step down -- or worse, were summarily removed from ownership of their group. If they refused, and Deron's ironically-named "ersatzfriend" ID did not have ownership itself, Deron had Yahoo close the group completely. Over 600 groups were closed in the spring and summer of 2005 alone, leaving thousands and thousands of people who had been happily freecycling out in the cold just because Deron felt that their moderator was asking too many questions.

By the summer of 2005 even Deron's managers were starting to ask questions. The transcript of a private chat session was accidentally released, in which Deron gloated over a plan to fire one of the managers "at high noon" and laughed gleefully about it. Most of the other managers realized how much harm was being done and almost the entire management structure left en masse, including the paid second-in-command and "mother hen" of TFN, Nancy Castleman.

Out of pure vindictiveness, Deron had Yahoo close not only Nancy's own freecycle group, but also pull her personal Yahoo ID. In one fell swoop she found herself in limbo -- with her address book gone she couldn't contact anyone, and with her email address gone no one could contact her. And all of her archives of past correspondence were gone.

Meanwhile, Deron became extremely aggressive in protecting what he called his "trademark." The problem was that the application cited only the logo, while he was trying to protect not only that and the name "The Freecycle Network," but also the word "freecycle" itself. Many of us feel that trademarks on the logo and the TFN name are perfectly legitimate, but not the word "freecycle." It's equivalent to Best Buy suing every book and magazine that refers to a particular car or appliance as being a "best buy" -- which is ridiculous, and which Best Buy has enough sense not to try to do.

Many moderators got angrier and angrier, and one of them who had the wherewithal to do it finally challenged Deron. Tim Oey, owner of the FreecycleSunnyvale (Calif.) group, said that he did not object to Deron's claim on the logo and the name of the organization, but that the word "freecycle" was generic and must be released to the general public. Deron refused to negotiate, so Tim sued The Freecycle Network, since lawsuits are the customary way trademark disputes are resolved in the US. Tim sought no money, only to have the word "freecycle" declared generic.

Again acting vindictively, Deron retaliated by filing a SLAPP suit -- a form of litigation filed to intimidate and silence a less powerful critic by so severely burdening them with the cost of a legal defense that they abandon their criticism -- against Tim and his wife personally, demanding hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages and a gag order against Tim.

The judge granted the gag order, which has been loudly decried by the legal profession as a bad decision that illegally limits free speech. An appeals court agreed, and overturned the gag order -- however Tim feels constrained to remain mum lest the suit somehow end up back in the lower court where he fears angering the judge.

Seriously, read the whole thing if you want to understand the backstory. Deron comes across like a complete shit.
posted by mediareport at 6:15 AM on September 14, 2009 [6 favorites]

The trouble with this sort of organisation is that it always runs the risk of being swamped with people who, for all their purported moral purity, simply want lots of free stuff, period.

You all know the type: the alleged hairshirt environmentalist who scoffs at all car owners, yet is continuously scrounging free rides; the relentless critic of agrobusiness who never misses a free lunch, etc. Strangely, the more selfish such people are, the more puritanically they enforce their alleged principles on other people. Whether it's a defence mechanism against the jarring cognitive dissonance of attacking consumism, yet living a consumist lifestyle at the expense of others, or just the result of them being self-centered arseclots, I don't know, but it is extremely, extremely annoying, and certainly turns me off any such organisation.

Unless I personally know or trust the receiver (a person or an NGO), I prefer to sell my used stuff, even if it's for a pittance, than to give it away. Because when I sell, at least I can be certain that the buyer at least attaches some value to the object.
posted by Skeptic at 6:17 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

We need a verb for having a good idea, and then, once your vision is a reality, turning into what you once hated most and running your good idea right into the shoals.

The noun version is apparently well-known: Founder's Syndrome.
posted by mediareport at 6:21 AM on September 14, 2009

Freecycle Kamloops works fine though posted images seem to require separate moderation that never seems to happen. I picked up a pantry yesterday in fact without any hassle. It does have the requirement that you have offered something before posting wants but I see that as a good policy to keep the list from being flooded with new member wants. Besides, it's not like it's hard to game the requirement if you desperately need to post a want without ever having offered something.
posted by Mitheral at 6:28 AM on September 14, 2009

I've used the Yahoo Freecycle group in our city for years; got rid of tons of stuff. The politics has been kept to a minimum here but even so we had a splinter group come and go quietly and quickly. It takes a fair bit of momentum and community effort (i.e., lots of posts) to sustain interest in a new group, so I'd bet most are doomed from the start - usually only a small core that formed the splinter group would have incentive to post more than usual. And you only have so much stuff to give to begin with.

The reason that I (and I believe most other) people stay is that (most of) the rules protect you more than craigslist or kijiji does. No-shows and opportunists still exist, but I've always had less problems listing things on Freecycle. It's like that quote about democracy; Freecycle is an awful way to run a giving community, but it's the best system we have.

scruss: Yeah, when disagreements do occur the Freecycle gang make academic fights look calm and rational. Thankfully our mods seem to realize the absurdity of some of the central org's rules and soften their application of them somewhat. A good moderator, like a good supervisor, can make the difference between a healthy, respectful community and, well, most other online forums.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 6:30 AM on September 14, 2009

yet the Board of Directors still consists of only three people: Deron himself, Deron's wife, and a close friend of theirs...

How do you get away with that? I'm on the board of a 501(c)3 organization and there are tons a rules that we have to go through dealing with board membership, nominations, elections, notification, term limits, etc. Doesn't the IRS come down on you if you don't follow the rules?
posted by octothorpe at 6:35 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

I joined the local FreeCycle group a few years ago because it sounded like a good way to get rid of some of the boxes of crap we have moved into a couple of different houses and never unpacked.

I ended up never posting anything on the group because of the endless scolding from the moderators toward others who were acting in good faith but who somehow ended up crossing one of the gazillion guidelines which were created to govern the interactions of the participants.

Seems like, for a group which was originated around the concept of "give your old stuff away, rather than throw it out", there were an awful lot of rules about how all it should be done. I was too intimidated to even try and soon unsubscribed from the service emails. I hardly ever think about them these days.

I haven't tried Craigslist free postings, but after the recommendations on this page, I will.
posted by hippybear at 6:42 AM on September 14, 2009

Over the years I've witnessed first-hand the implosion and dysfractionation of many online communities, yet I am still amazed at the incredible amount of convoluted and bureaucratic drama that's risen up around the relatively simple act of giving stuff away for free.
posted by Spatch at 7:30 AM on September 14, 2009

This is what happens when your beautiful fiancee, Altruism, gets dragged into an alley and brutally gang-raped by Captain Control Freak and his eager sidekick, Greedy Dollaritis.
posted by umberto at 7:42 AM on September 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

I have 5 free favorites which I will leave by my curbside. Let me know if you are coming by to pick one up.

Wanted: Pony, any size.
posted by Rumple at 8:15 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Mine!
posted by djgh at 8:45 AM on September 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Maybe I'm lucky, but my Freecycle group works just fine. I want to get rid of something, I post it, somebody comes and takes it away. Admittedly, I don't read any of the posts, so maybe I'm missing out on all the drama.
posted by diogenes at 8:47 AM on September 14, 2009

My one experience with Freecycle was pretty poor - I signed up, and wanted something. Emailed the person, never heard back. Listed some books, a few replies. Tried to organise collection, no response.
posted by djgh at 8:48 AM on September 14, 2009

Wow - People actually want to play in this megalomaniac's sandbox?

If you don't want something, stick it on a tarp (unless moisture won't adversely affect it) on your front lawn with a "free!" sign. It will almost always vanish by the end of the day. I've used this to get rid of everything from "antique" computers cluttering my basement (I labeled which ones still worked, as a courtesy - Even the non-working ones vanished just as quickly), to scraps left over from a small remodeling project, to furniture.

Oddly enough, people no longer seem to take CRTs (monitors or old TVs, doesn't matter which), which strikes me as strange, considering the coils in the back literally consist of three to five pounds of clean copper. But for just about anything else, skip the internet and just use your front yard.
posted by pla at 9:07 AM on September 14, 2009

Oddly enough, people no longer seem to take CRTs (monitors or old TVs, doesn't matter which), which strikes me as strange, considering the coils in the back literally consist of three to five pounds of clean copper.

Perhaps, but much of the glass at the front literally consists of three to five pounds of dirty lead. Disposal of old CRTs is an environmental nightmare.
posted by Skeptic at 9:31 AM on September 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Duluth's Freecycle list works pretty well. There are rules about how to post something, but the local moderator does a pretty even job, as far as I can tell. I've given away and received from the list for three years without a problem.

And by the way, they are definitely *not* all hippies--I think most of the people on the list here are actually conservative christians... It is distinctly non-political, and I've never seen drama, except when this one guy shows up periodically who writes out a big ol' sob story that is quickly shot down as a long-standing con. (Small enough town to know what's what, I guess.)

That said, this story about the Bigwig Asshole leaves me feeling that I might leave if he sucks our YahooGroup into the main site and de-localizes it. I'll keep my eyes peeled for Stupidity ™.
posted by RedEmma at 9:58 AM on September 14, 2009

If you don't want something, stick it on a tarp (unless moisture won't adversely affect it) on your front lawn with a "free!" sign. It will almost always vanish by the end of the day.

If it hasn't disappeared on day one, replace the sign that says "free!" with one that says "$10".
posted by ODiV at 10:42 AM on September 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

I've been a user on my local Freecycle list for about two years or so, and its slowly decending into a dictatorship. Moderators have final say, question the mods and your out of the group. Fact is, no discussion is allowed and even on the "Cafe" "free discussion" list all messages are moderated and i've had a few messages that have never made it to the list.

Doesn't help that a mod for the local group seems to be a head-honcho for the UK as a whole, when I originally applied to run the group for my local area I was prompty rejected for covering a existing area, only for her to create the group for herself a few days later.

What really finished it off for me is when a mod posted that reselling of items is banned in the group, anyone caught will be removed and prosecuted under law. I'd love to see what law they'll be able to prosecute someone under for reselling a item that has been gifted to them...
posted by Nik_Doof at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2009

Oddly enough, people no longer seem to take CRTs (monitors or old TVs, doesn't matter which), which strikes me as strange, considering the coils in the back literally consist of three to five pounds of clean copper. But for just about anything else, skip the internet and just use your front yard.

Well, it isn't clean copper, because magnet wire does have varnish on it. I've looked at charts to determine what grade it actually is, and I can't tell.. Mechanically removing PVC insulation from heavier gauge wire is probably quite easy. I believe the only way to remove the enamel is burning. I have no idea whether that means PVC insulated copper is worth more or not though.

If anyone knows real world details about copper scraping, I'd love to hear about it.
posted by Chuckles at 11:10 AM on September 14, 2009

I signed up with my local group a few years ago. Gave away an oven/range. At least I think I gave it away to someone on the freecycle network; I got tired of emailing them back and forth and just put the darn thing on the curb in front of the house. Gone!

Eventually I got tired of all the requests like this: "WANT: My cousin just moved into town from an abusive relationship. She and her 4 children need the following.
-beds
-transportation (so she can get to work)
-clothes
-food
Thanks and God Bless"

etc. Another favorite: someone offering a half box of Kleenex tissues (wish I could find that post again).

I always thought the moderation on the yahoo! group was a little silly and the time delays were excessive. Eventually I just decided that the peeps driving around my neighborhood looking for stuff on the curb could solve my problem more efficiently (both time- and resource-wise) than someone living 10-15 miles away. Wonder if somebody has already trademarked Curbcycle? Maybe Curbslist?
posted by Barry B. Palindromer at 12:29 PM on September 14, 2009

Seriously, read the whole thing if you want to understand the backstory.

Read the whole thing if you want one person's perception of events. I'm sympathetic to her side of the tale, but c'mon. She obviously has a bias.

yet the Board of Directors still consists of only three people: Deron himself, Deron's wife, and a close friend of theirs...

How do you get away with that? I'm on the board of a 501(c)3 organization and there are tons a rules that we have to go through dealing with board membership, nominations, elections, notification, term limits, etc. Doesn't the IRS come down on you if you don't follow the rules?

That was my biggest question. I though that non-profit orgs had to have an independent board of directors, none of whom could hold a job at or be paid a salary by the organization. Wrong?
posted by mrgrimm at 2:00 PM on September 14, 2009

That said, I've always found something creepy about Freecycle. I, too, balked when they asked me for the essay, and I just use craigslist like most people.

I just leave shit outside my building and people take it away, presumably to use or sell.

That's fine as long as you're not leaving TVs, monitors, or other electronic junk no one wants. Nobody takes that shit and they end up smashed in the street. Recycle your junk electronics, please. Don't flush them into the water.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:02 PM on September 14, 2009

I never saw the essay bit - I mean, yeah, they wanted me to write something, but it was the traditional sentence that communicates that you have some vague understanding of the theme of the yahoo group and aren't just some damn spam bot.

The moderation on the one I was on was pretty good. Your first few posts were moderated, but it was quick. After enough posts (maybe four or five) that they could see you got how the game was played, they seemed to just turn you loose.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:51 PM on September 14, 2009

My local freecycle group split off and formed a new group a bit over a year ago; I knew there was a problem with the freecycle management, and that the original list got zero'd and the new one, waste-not-want-not north dorset invited all the old members across. A new yahoo group got setup with the frecycle name, and then ended up with a redirect to the US freecycle site. The waste-not-want-not group currently has twice the members of the reformed freecycle group - certainly, I've never seen any politics or messing about, it's just people offering and taking stuff that might be a little worn, but useful to someone - I've donated a couple of things myself, but most of my stuff goes to recycling directly or is broken electronic waste, so I dispose of it properly.

Perhaps I should ask to see if they're interested in joining the Freegle umbrella, and getting the link off our local government website updated.
posted by ArkhanJG at 4:14 PM on September 14, 2009

The local Freecycle group in Leeds is well moderated. No essay is required to join and posts are immediately approved, if indeed there is any approval needed. It is a Yahoo group and does not have a website.

I would not hesitate to follow the moderators to another similar group if they felt that using the Freecycle monicker was constricting their operation.

The only issue is the trawling of posts by car-booters, but as the mods pointed out, car-booters are keeping things out of landfill and as such are in agreement with the ethos of the thing. Personally, I would rather my stuff went to someone without the cash to afford it, so I just add 'No carbooters, to my offered messages.
posted by asok at 2:17 AM on September 15, 2009

In Switzerland, we have places that do this sort of thing. Where I live, they are directly attached to the recyclable collection station (Switzerland, I've been told, is tops at recycling). Okay, fine. But when the woman running things felt my offer of a flatbed scanner, in original carton with documents, working fine, was only good for the recycle bin, I wrote them off (we upgraded). It hurt, to see something be trashed so out-of-hand.

Once upon a time, I did things. I joined groups and was an activist. Then I encountered the very sort of nonsense described here. Eventually, I learned my lesson. I don't get involved in anything organized that I can avoid. I can't stand petty tyrants who imped progress in order to prove their perceived authority.
posted by Goofyy at 6:26 AM on September 15, 2009

Unless I personally know or trust the receiver (a person or an NGO), I prefer to sell my used stuff, even if it's for a pittance, than to give it away. Because when I sell, at least I can be certain that the buyer at least attaches some value to the object.

You could always give it to a thrift store, most of which are charity-based. You don't have to be selfish to feel good about getting rid of what you don't need.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:10 AM on September 15, 2009

And anyway the idea behind freecycle is not charity, it's to keep stuff people can use out of landfills. There is no requirement to be poor or needy to claim items from freecycle, but there's also no guarantee you'll get it, either.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:11 AM on September 15, 2009

I've been a user on my local Freecycle list for about two years or so, and its slowly decending into a dictatorship. Moderators have final say, question the mods and your out of the group. Fact is, no discussion is allowed and even on the "Cafe" "free discussion" list all messages are moderated and i've had a few messages that have never made it to the list.

Well, on the regular donation lists, it's really not a good idea to allow chatting, because it gets way too noisy and dilutes the purpose, making it difficult to use the group as intended. The cafe lists shouldn't be moderated, though, at least not heavily.

I have been a part of many freecycle groups, but I recently left my local one, as it was starting to turn into a free-for-all. Like Metafilter, sometimes it pisses people off to have a post rejected, but good moderation is necessary for it to function well, and without that I don't have time to deal with the extraneous mess. But the moderation should be strict but only strict as far as following the basic guidelines, which are honestly pretty easy to follow.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:36 AM on September 15, 2009

I can't just leave stuff out on my 'front lawn' - I live in an apartment building, and the management does NOT look kindly upon their residents leaving stuff on the curb. It looks messy and junky and they work hard to keep the place looking nice.

I used to be in a Freecycle group but I found it impossible to actually pick anything up people were offering, mostly because of moderator delays in getting your reply posted. But I was able to give away a ton of stuff, and that was nice.

Never tried Craigslist for that kind of thing. Maybe I will next time I have a something-something to give away.
posted by sandraregina at 11:28 AM on September 15, 2009

I used to be in a Freecycle group but I found it impossible to actually pick anything up people were offering, mostly because of moderator delays in getting your reply posted. But I was able to give away a ton of stuff, and that was nice.

That's odd. Every list I've been involved with required responses to go directly to the poster, not the list, so you shouldn't have to wait for the moderation queue. But, not every group is the same ... though I think it would not work very well if the responses to offers had to go through the moderated list.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:40 PM on September 15, 2009

there is nothing quite as entertaining as watching a bunch of hippies slug it out. they're every bit as nasty as the right wingers they despise.

FreeCycle is not composed of hippies. In my area at least, it seems to be mainly lower-middle class housewives. [NOT LOWER-MIDDLE CLASS HOUSEWIFIST]
posted by DU at 8:26 AM on September 17, 2009