The Jay Leno Show, two weeks in
September 28, 2009 8:38 PM Subscribe
Two weeks ago the first episode of The Jay Leno Show gathered to big ratings, leading some to question what his appeal actually is. After the inevitable fall in ratings a review of the show showed up in The New Yorker.
The A.V. Club reviewed it too: First Episode and First Week.
The A.V. Club reviewed it too: First Episode and First Week.
The irony of The New Yorker pointing out the unfunny in others while continuing to publish their own comics has not escaped me.
posted by spiderskull at 8:57 PM on September 28, 2009 [22 favorites]
posted by spiderskull at 8:57 PM on September 28, 2009 [22 favorites]
I'm picturing the Venn diagram of people who would watch Jay Leno, and people who read the New Yorker.
The two circles aren't even located in the same state.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:58 PM on September 28, 2009 [19 favorites]
The two circles aren't even located in the same state.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:58 PM on September 28, 2009 [19 favorites]
I've never been a fan of Leno, by any means. However, I think one could argue that critics have a reason to badmouth his show. By giving Leno the 10 PM slot, NBC essentially cut their hours of actual new television (scripted or reality) by 1/3.
If Leno succeeds, than the other big two will probably attempt to follow NBC's lead. Which leads to less new "real" television, and perhaps, less critics to review it.
posted by graventy at 8:59 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
If Leno succeeds, than the other big two will probably attempt to follow NBC's lead. Which leads to less new "real" television, and perhaps, less critics to review it.
posted by graventy at 8:59 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, every time I hear something by Bill Hicks I think it's got to be a parody of someone trying to be "edgy" and "anti-corporate" like that Simpsons where Krusty did stand-up and got the Canyonero but no, apparently that's really what his comedy was like.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:00 PM on September 28, 2009 [12 favorites]
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:00 PM on September 28, 2009 [12 favorites]
Ooooh! Oooh! I've always wanted to do this!
Is this something I would have to own a TV to understand?
Oh man I hope I did that right and nobody's like oh hey look at the new kid screwing up hey what's this he's been registered for years wow can't believe he still messed up after that much time that's so lame
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:00 PM on September 28, 2009 [11 favorites]
Is this something I would have to own a TV to understand?
Oh man I hope I did that right and nobody's like oh hey look at the new kid screwing up hey what's this he's been registered for years wow can't believe he still messed up after that much time that's so lame
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:00 PM on September 28, 2009 [11 favorites]
Anyway. The only thing I have to really offer is this: I think those chairs are ugly.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:01 PM on September 28, 2009
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:01 PM on September 28, 2009
NBC essentially cut their hours of actual new television (scripted or reality) by 1/3.
Yeah, I've been hearing that a lot, and it seems way out of proportion to the offense. I never watch the big networks, but aren't their schedules 40% or more unscripted/reality/dancing with the chef bullshit by now?
Getting angry at giving an hour to Leno seems like blaming one drop for an entire bucket. And Leno may be a hack, but at least he's a human being who works hard doing what is basically entertainment. He miles above the kind of people who work on reality shows. And unlike reality shows, Leno at least employs writers and pays them union wages, rather than disguising them as "line producers" or whatever it is reality calls them.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:04 PM on September 28, 2009 [14 favorites]
Yeah, I've been hearing that a lot, and it seems way out of proportion to the offense. I never watch the big networks, but aren't their schedules 40% or more unscripted/reality/dancing with the chef bullshit by now?
Getting angry at giving an hour to Leno seems like blaming one drop for an entire bucket. And Leno may be a hack, but at least he's a human being who works hard doing what is basically entertainment. He miles above the kind of people who work on reality shows. And unlike reality shows, Leno at least employs writers and pays them union wages, rather than disguising them as "line producers" or whatever it is reality calls them.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:04 PM on September 28, 2009 [14 favorites]
I prefer it to the countless dorky, by-the-numbers, pseudo-grim and gritty, gratuitously gory, ripped-from-the-headlines murder shows with actors who confuse voguing with acting and plot holes that are drowned out by faux cool crunchy "alternative" music -- it is at least a step in the right direction of having light-hearted entertainment that does not take itself seriously...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 9:09 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 9:09 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
I feel conflicted.
Honestly, I really like Jay Leno. Jay Leno is like a nice uncle. He's not threatening, he's pleasant. He can tell slightly off-color jokes, but nothing too surprising. He also gives 110% every night, and I appreciate that. So many people in the public eye are clearly phoning it in.
But the new show...it is really...bad. I have watched it every night. They haven't found their groove yet. The timing is all off. The 10 @ 10 bit and all the 11pm News Promos just make it feel like Leno spends an hour standing up, begging, pleading...pitching.
And I hate that. Because he's better than that.
I know they're trying to not do The Tonight Show. But honestly? I would totally love to watch The [Tonight Show with] Jay Leno Show at 10pm. That format worked for him. Well. This awkward in-between period? It is not working. Also, for people who live in the Central Time Zone, the emphasis on "10!!!!!" is...unsettling.
Leno deserves better than what NBC is sticking him with. He shouldn't have to go down with their ship.
And in other news...remember when any other network had three-camera, "before-a-live-studio-audience" sitcoms like you only see on CBS Monday night anymore? I absolutely miss that. NBC Thursday is great and all, but I miss Must See TV, old school style.
posted by jefficator at 9:12 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I really like Jay Leno. Jay Leno is like a nice uncle. He's not threatening, he's pleasant. He can tell slightly off-color jokes, but nothing too surprising. He also gives 110% every night, and I appreciate that. So many people in the public eye are clearly phoning it in.
But the new show...it is really...bad. I have watched it every night. They haven't found their groove yet. The timing is all off. The 10 @ 10 bit and all the 11pm News Promos just make it feel like Leno spends an hour standing up, begging, pleading...pitching.
And I hate that. Because he's better than that.
I know they're trying to not do The Tonight Show. But honestly? I would totally love to watch The [Tonight Show with] Jay Leno Show at 10pm. That format worked for him. Well. This awkward in-between period? It is not working. Also, for people who live in the Central Time Zone, the emphasis on "10!!!!!" is...unsettling.
Leno deserves better than what NBC is sticking him with. He shouldn't have to go down with their ship.
And in other news...remember when any other network had three-camera, "before-a-live-studio-audience" sitcoms like you only see on CBS Monday night anymore? I absolutely miss that. NBC Thursday is great and all, but I miss Must See TV, old school style.
posted by jefficator at 9:12 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
"...a kind of death is taking place before our eyes."
I ♥ The NYer.
posted by squalor at 9:13 PM on September 28, 2009
I ♥ The NYer.
posted by squalor at 9:13 PM on September 28, 2009
The 10PM slot in 2008-2009 (Fall Schedule anyway) was thus:
Monday
"My Own Worst Enemy"
Tuesday
"Law & Order: Special Victims Unit"
Wednesday
"Lipstick Jungle"
Thursday
"ER"
Friday
"Life"
--
I think putting Leno into the 10PM slot is basically a white flag that signals the acceleration pace of TV's decline. NBC is throwing in the towel and I have no doubt they'll be followed shortly.
As an aside, I saw an interesting reaction on Twitter not long ago from one of the writer/producers on TNT's Leverage about this very subject:
I won't tell you not to watch the Leno Show. I will tell you that its creation caused thousands to lose their jobs, including many friends.
9:56 PM Sep 14th from web
posted by empyrean at 9:18 PM on September 28, 2009 [9 favorites]
Monday
"My Own Worst Enemy"
Tuesday
"Law & Order: Special Victims Unit"
Wednesday
"Lipstick Jungle"
Thursday
"ER"
Friday
"Life"
--
I think putting Leno into the 10PM slot is basically a white flag that signals the acceleration pace of TV's decline. NBC is throwing in the towel and I have no doubt they'll be followed shortly.
As an aside, I saw an interesting reaction on Twitter not long ago from one of the writer/producers on TNT's Leverage about this very subject:
I won't tell you not to watch the Leno Show. I will tell you that its creation caused thousands to lose their jobs, including many friends.
9:56 PM Sep 14th from web
posted by empyrean at 9:18 PM on September 28, 2009 [9 favorites]
I hate New Yorker cartoons, Bill Hicks, pop-culture Venn diagrams, murder shows that take themselves too seriously, light-hearted entertainment that doesn't take itself seriously enough, people who have a TV, people who don't have a TV, the Geico cavemen, the Geico gecko, Leno, Letterman, Mad Men, Two and a Half Men, Charlie Sheen and Sheena Easton. More things I hate later.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 9:22 PM on September 28, 2009 [39 favorites]
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 9:22 PM on September 28, 2009 [39 favorites]
I will tell you that its creation caused thousands to lose their jobs, including many friends.
I've worked in television, and I can say with absolute certainty that this is absolute horseshit.
posted by dhammond at 9:34 PM on September 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've worked in television, and I can say with absolute certainty that this is absolute horseshit.
posted by dhammond at 9:34 PM on September 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm picturing the Venn diagram of people who would watch Jay Leno
Wouldn't that be like trying to intersect a square with a circle, man?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:34 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
Wouldn't that be like trying to intersect a square with a circle, man?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:34 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've always disliked Jay Leno. He's like an unfunny uncle or something. Now I dislike him even more, because I love Conan O' Brien, and I think it's unfair that he worked really hard to get to host The Tonight Show, and now NBC plops Jay Leno in front of him again.
So, yeah, I sat through Leno's monologue a few nights ago, and it was as terrible as I'd remembered. Personally, I hope he sinks, although NBC will stick with it for a few years no matter what.
posted by elder18 at 9:34 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, yeah, I sat through Leno's monologue a few nights ago, and it was as terrible as I'd remembered. Personally, I hope he sinks, although NBC will stick with it for a few years no matter what.
posted by elder18 at 9:34 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Leno calls himself “a big-tent guy,” but this isn’t big-tent show business; this is the saddest of carnivals.
lol.
posted by sugarfish at 9:35 PM on September 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
lol.
posted by sugarfish at 9:35 PM on September 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Dude, Mad Men? Say it ain't so.
The rest: yeah, fuck it.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:36 PM on September 28, 2009
The rest: yeah, fuck it.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:36 PM on September 28, 2009
I didn't have an opinion about the new Jay Leno show either way (I go to bed at 10pm) until they started running the promos on "First Look" at the movie theaters.
The spots are so terrible and unfunny that I hope to god whatever it's doing, it'll stop promoing it before I settle down with my popcorn to enjoy some cinema shlock. And when I'd rather see another Coke commercial or the trailer for DAYWALKERS, you know your show's in trouble.
posted by Gucky at 9:37 PM on September 28, 2009
The spots are so terrible and unfunny that I hope to god whatever it's doing, it'll stop promoing it before I settle down with my popcorn to enjoy some cinema shlock. And when I'd rather see another Coke commercial or the trailer for DAYWALKERS, you know your show's in trouble.
posted by Gucky at 9:37 PM on September 28, 2009
Tom Cruise was asked if he had ever been to a strip club. (“No,” he said—and the audience booed, a reaction I don’t think I want to understand.)
The NYer piece may be useless to me as a review, as there's not really a chance in hell I'll ever watch Leno's show regardless, but as commentary on a fascinating piece of pop culture it's excellent.
posted by martens at 9:38 PM on September 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
The NYer piece may be useless to me as a review, as there's not really a chance in hell I'll ever watch Leno's show regardless, but as commentary on a fascinating piece of pop culture it's excellent.
posted by martens at 9:38 PM on September 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Dude, Mad Men? Say it ain't so.
I believe that was put in there to connect Letterman and Two and a Half Men.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 9:40 PM on September 28, 2009
I believe that was put in there to connect Letterman and Two and a Half Men.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 9:40 PM on September 28, 2009
I didn't have an opinion about the new Jay Leno show either way (I go to bed at 10pm) until they started running the promos on "First Look" at the movie theaters.
The spots are so terrible and unfunny that I hope to god whatever it's doing, it'll stop promoing it before I settle down with my popcorn to enjoy some cinema shlock. And when I'd rather see another Coke commercial or the trailer for DAYWALKERS, you know your show's in trouble.
I'd rather see that "turn off your phone" spot where the old man yells "Robots! From space!" while they blow up Mount Rushmore a few more times, because that's at least always going to crack me up. Leno has never made me laugh in my life.
posted by padraigin at 9:52 PM on September 28, 2009
The spots are so terrible and unfunny that I hope to god whatever it's doing, it'll stop promoing it before I settle down with my popcorn to enjoy some cinema shlock. And when I'd rather see another Coke commercial or the trailer for DAYWALKERS, you know your show's in trouble.
I'd rather see that "turn off your phone" spot where the old man yells "Robots! From space!" while they blow up Mount Rushmore a few more times, because that's at least always going to crack me up. Leno has never made me laugh in my life.
posted by padraigin at 9:52 PM on September 28, 2009
He also gives 110% every night, and I appreciate that. So many people in the public eye are clearly phoning it in.
While Leno has my utmost respect for this, my problem is that even doing this, even when he was helming The Tonight Show, he still wasn't that funny. His jokes, to me, have mostly been constructs meant to represent funny stuff that never delivered. I realize this is a matter of taste, but it's one of those taste issues I can't understand, like when I was 16 and busing tables at Old Country Buffet and hearing customers talk about how good the food was and wondering what orgasms they'd have if they ever discovered Red Lobster.
I don't even really say that as a criticism of Leno. Clearly he adores comedy, clearly he has busted his ass 15 times harder than the average guy, and clearly he has taken his hits along the way to fame and fortune. I don't begrudge him one penny of his success. I say only that it bewilders me.
I think putting Leno into the 10PM slot is basically a white flag that signals the acceleration pace of TV's decline.
The upside to this is that it encourages networks to take more risks. Fox, back when it was a new network, was putting on the types of shows that no other network would touch with a ten-foot pole, because they were desperate for anything that would make them a success. Black comedies? Sure, the other networks hate them, but we'll take whatever works. Now that Fox is as successful as the others, they've fallen into the same pattern. So maybe all of them being raked over the coals will translate into open minds regarding shows that they wouldn't have given a second glance fifteen years ago.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:56 PM on September 28, 2009 [13 favorites]
While Leno has my utmost respect for this, my problem is that even doing this, even when he was helming The Tonight Show, he still wasn't that funny. His jokes, to me, have mostly been constructs meant to represent funny stuff that never delivered. I realize this is a matter of taste, but it's one of those taste issues I can't understand, like when I was 16 and busing tables at Old Country Buffet and hearing customers talk about how good the food was and wondering what orgasms they'd have if they ever discovered Red Lobster.
I don't even really say that as a criticism of Leno. Clearly he adores comedy, clearly he has busted his ass 15 times harder than the average guy, and clearly he has taken his hits along the way to fame and fortune. I don't begrudge him one penny of his success. I say only that it bewilders me.
I think putting Leno into the 10PM slot is basically a white flag that signals the acceleration pace of TV's decline.
The upside to this is that it encourages networks to take more risks. Fox, back when it was a new network, was putting on the types of shows that no other network would touch with a ten-foot pole, because they were desperate for anything that would make them a success. Black comedies? Sure, the other networks hate them, but we'll take whatever works. Now that Fox is as successful as the others, they've fallen into the same pattern. So maybe all of them being raked over the coals will translate into open minds regarding shows that they wouldn't have given a second glance fifteen years ago.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:56 PM on September 28, 2009 [13 favorites]
Now that Fox is as successful as the others, they've fallen into the same pattern.
*subtly gestures towards Glee*
posted by The Devil Tesla at 10:00 PM on September 28, 2009
*subtly gestures towards Glee*
posted by The Devil Tesla at 10:00 PM on September 28, 2009
*subtly gestures towards Glee*
I am just a little embarrassed about how much I love that show.
posted by middleclasstool at 10:02 PM on September 28, 2009
I am just a little embarrassed about how much I love that show.
posted by middleclasstool at 10:02 PM on September 28, 2009
Jay Leno is still alive? Jesus. I can't stand that asshole. I should just make that my username and get it over with.
posted by heyho at 10:06 PM on September 28, 2009
posted by heyho at 10:06 PM on September 28, 2009
I couldn't be more biased about this, as I work on a show that's in direct competition with Leno (as I like to say, everyone complains about Leno, but I actually do something about it). But come on. Don't watch Leno. It's bad.
In general television writers are concerned about this, but not overly so. While it's true that Leno is cheaper to make than an average scripted show, and therefore can bring in lower ratings without hurting NBC's bottom line, the low ratings are hurting all the local affiliates who count on the 10 o'clock shows to bring viewers to their local news shows. Your local NBC channel, tired of losing money, is who will probably bring an end to this experiment. There's lots of good television for everyone nowadays. (And yes, plenty of bad.) So watch whatever you enjoy.
(But not Leno, okay? Bookhouse needs to eat, yo.)
posted by Bookhouse at 10:13 PM on September 28, 2009 [12 favorites]
In general television writers are concerned about this, but not overly so. While it's true that Leno is cheaper to make than an average scripted show, and therefore can bring in lower ratings without hurting NBC's bottom line, the low ratings are hurting all the local affiliates who count on the 10 o'clock shows to bring viewers to their local news shows. Your local NBC channel, tired of losing money, is who will probably bring an end to this experiment. There's lots of good television for everyone nowadays. (And yes, plenty of bad.) So watch whatever you enjoy.
(But not Leno, okay? Bookhouse needs to eat, yo.)
posted by Bookhouse at 10:13 PM on September 28, 2009 [12 favorites]
You know, I guess Leno's Nice Guy thing works for him, because as much as I loathe his middle-of-the-road softball humour -- and it's not like I think every comic has to be Mr. Fucking Edgy but come on -- I don't want to see a sad ending for him either.
Oh well. He does have a fuckhouse full of money.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:21 PM on September 28, 2009
Oh well. He does have a fuckhouse full of money.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:21 PM on September 28, 2009
Television is just cycling back to the way it used to be. Leno will be replaced by wrestling and boxing and Broadway variety shows and commercials for Camels and Lucky Strike and busty babes with cigarette holders and chimps sitting at the news desk. If they go back to black and white, low-definition broadcasts, with no more tedious cable channels to flip through, I might actually have to get me a teevee.
Honey, could you iron somewhere else? You're standing in the way of the signal. And get me a brewski while you're up.
posted by pracowity at 10:30 PM on September 28, 2009 [5 favorites]
Honey, could you iron somewhere else? You're standing in the way of the signal. And get me a brewski while you're up.
posted by pracowity at 10:30 PM on September 28, 2009 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I've been hearing that a lot, and it seems way out of proportion to the offense. I never watch the big networks, but aren't their schedules 40% or more unscripted/reality/dancing with the chef bullshit by now?
Getting angry at giving an hour to Leno seems like blaming one drop for an entire bucket.
The point is not that they're giving an hour to Leno, but that they're giving an hour a night to Leno.
NBC had 3 hours a night of prime time series programming. Now they have two.
posted by dersins at 10:36 PM on September 28, 2009
Getting angry at giving an hour to Leno seems like blaming one drop for an entire bucket.
The point is not that they're giving an hour to Leno, but that they're giving an hour a night to Leno.
NBC had 3 hours a night of prime time series programming. Now they have two.
posted by dersins at 10:36 PM on September 28, 2009
Y'know, if it was an honest to god variety show I think it would be worthwhile. As is, it's just a mess.
posted by Kattullus at 10:39 PM on September 28, 2009
posted by Kattullus at 10:39 PM on September 28, 2009
I love Dancing With The Chef. I'm not sure Leslie will make it through the Cakewalk Challenge, but the Meriengue episode was awesome.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:41 PM on September 28, 2009 [15 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:41 PM on September 28, 2009 [15 favorites]
So maybe all of them being raked over the coals will translate into open minds regarding shows that they wouldn't have given a second glance fifteen years ago.
Perhaps, but the money isn't there anymore for a lot of production, and the industry seems to be shifting away from spending money on television. Well, "broadcast" television anyway, whatever that means anymore. The quality series seem to be moving to the ... movie channels?
posted by krinklyfig at 10:45 PM on September 28, 2009
Perhaps, but the money isn't there anymore for a lot of production, and the industry seems to be shifting away from spending money on television. Well, "broadcast" television anyway, whatever that means anymore. The quality series seem to be moving to the ... movie channels?
posted by krinklyfig at 10:45 PM on September 28, 2009
NBC had 3 hours a night of prime time series programming. Now they have two.
That's true, and I don't care much for Leno. But I sort of feel sorry for the guy now, can't bring myself to watch his show, because even hearing the vaguest descriptions leave me knowing it's doomed, doomed, DOOMED!
Well, broke or not, they have a channel, so they gotta put something there, right? I'd be happy if they showed old movies with some cheesy host to annoy you around the commercial breaks, which would cost them practically nothing, and they could even make a cult following of it. But chances are when they finally release his soul from the Chalice of Her Maj... cancel the show, Leno will be replaced with some stupid sports-reality bullshit bustin' with mad product placement, yo!, dreamed up by an ex-MTV writer in his late-20s, naturally. Or an infomercial.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:55 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
That's true, and I don't care much for Leno. But I sort of feel sorry for the guy now, can't bring myself to watch his show, because even hearing the vaguest descriptions leave me knowing it's doomed, doomed, DOOMED!
Well, broke or not, they have a channel, so they gotta put something there, right? I'd be happy if they showed old movies with some cheesy host to annoy you around the commercial breaks, which would cost them practically nothing, and they could even make a cult following of it. But chances are when they finally release his soul from the Chalice of Her Maj... cancel the show, Leno will be replaced with some stupid sports-reality bullshit bustin' with mad product placement, yo!, dreamed up by an ex-MTV writer in his late-20s, naturally. Or an infomercial.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:55 PM on September 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Jay Leno is still alive? Jesus. I can't stand that asshole. I should just make that my username and get it over with.
posted by heyho
Eponysterical.
posted by effugas at 11:07 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by heyho
Eponysterical.
posted by effugas at 11:07 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
I used to like Leno, back when he was a smart-aleck who wouldn't let a guest get a full sentence out before he was derailing the conversation. But then he took over full-time for Carson (who was smart enough to know that he was past his expiration date) and he had to woo Carson's geriatric audience, and that was the end of Leno's asshole charm.
The one thing I respected about Leno was that he made his guests stick around to the end of the show, instead of ditching out when their pitch was over, as happens so often to Conan. But maybe that's not a good thing, since I know that a guest who sticks around to the bitter end on Conan's show deserves respect, whereas on Leno's show, it just means Leno has flexed his PR muscle.
I hate to say it, but I miss Carson. I think he was to a great degree responsible for the golden age of weird comedy of the '80s, because he recognized and was willing to give exposure to a guy like Andy Kaufmann and others of his ilk. Leno certainly didn't continue in that tradition.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 11:12 PM on September 28, 2009 [6 favorites]
The one thing I respected about Leno was that he made his guests stick around to the end of the show, instead of ditching out when their pitch was over, as happens so often to Conan. But maybe that's not a good thing, since I know that a guest who sticks around to the bitter end on Conan's show deserves respect, whereas on Leno's show, it just means Leno has flexed his PR muscle.
I hate to say it, but I miss Carson. I think he was to a great degree responsible for the golden age of weird comedy of the '80s, because he recognized and was willing to give exposure to a guy like Andy Kaufmann and others of his ilk. Leno certainly didn't continue in that tradition.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 11:12 PM on September 28, 2009 [6 favorites]
I'm hoping the ratings continue to decline and Leno gets pulled. Not because I dislike Leno (although I think his bland, inoffensive humor is about as funny as plain oatmeal) but because I like scripted television. Oh, I know I'm supposed to be all cool and snobby and say that television is crap, but it isn't. There's been a lot of very good televsion and every hour less of scripted prime time drama per week is an hour that can't be used to give a new show a chance.
So you're a nice guy, Jay. I hope you crash, burn, the pieces bounce up from the impact and then plummet back down to earth to crash and burn again.
posted by Justinian at 11:24 PM on September 28, 2009 [4 favorites]
So you're a nice guy, Jay. I hope you crash, burn, the pieces bounce up from the impact and then plummet back down to earth to crash and burn again.
posted by Justinian at 11:24 PM on September 28, 2009 [4 favorites]
(who was smart enough to know that he was past his expiration date unceremoniously pushed out by Warren Littlefield long before his time)
posted by RavinDave at 11:24 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by RavinDave at 11:24 PM on September 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
Ten minutes ago I woke up from a dream where Jay Leno showed up at a USMC boot camp dorm in a uniform, cracked jokes, and got some of the junior drill instructors to start running around playing grabass. The senior R. Lee Ermey DI guy was just standing there, arms folded, shaking his head, lamenting what was happening to his beloved Corps. Then I woke up and decided to read Metafilter. I don't even watch Leno nor follow any E! news, so it's kinda odd.
posted by crapmatic at 12:58 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by crapmatic at 12:58 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Videogum have been unleashing both barrels on Jay Leno as well.
posted by minifigs at 1:14 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by minifigs at 1:14 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
NBC had 3 hours a night of prime time series programming. Now they have two.
And Fox has never had 3 hours a night, yet they conned the industry into thinking they're a 'full-time' network. They did kill the 'family hour' by putting the shows the other networks would air at 10 on at 9, and the shows the other networks would air at 9 on at 8. And they promoted it as "edgy TV" and America swallowed it whole. And why have they never done 10PM shows? Well, until relatively recently, the FCC applied extra rules to any 'full-time' network with over X hours of prime time programming a week, so Fox was a Real Network to everybody but the FCC. Leading to the even more lame non-networks WB and UPN, which between the two of them couldn't assemble one schedule as The CW. Sad. But the audience is so fragmented now that no single network can put together 22 hours a week of original programming (and with Saturdays filled with reruns and 'burn-off' episodes of cancelled shows, nobody does anymore). But there are more different channels that have picked up the slack, one hour at a time. Is anybody complaining about the programming AMC puts between its two great hours of dramatic TV every week? And here's an extra irony: Fox's cable channel FX is running the shows at 10PM that they're too scared of the FCC to put on broadcast. Anyway, Reality TV had already taken more hours from Prime Time Drama than Leno can, but when you add the content on the NBC-Universal-owned USA and (sigh)SyFy, it's a wash. (USA even gets first dibs on one of the Law & Order spin-offs) Add a half-dozen other cable channels and there is no shortage of "Prime Time Style" television. "Prime Time Quality" is another thing, but it has always been thus. And if you look at NBC's full daily schedule, with most of its daytime programming consisting of 4 hours of "Today", and 3-and-a-half hours of "Tonight" and its spin-offs at night, it is simply evolving slowly into the All-Talk-Show Network, and in a 500 channel TV universe (and with the digital broadcast debacle pushing more viewers into Cable & Satellite, that is becoming the TV universe for anybody with enough money to buy what they're advertising), it's only one channel.
posted by wendell at 1:25 AM on September 29, 2009 [4 favorites]
And Fox has never had 3 hours a night, yet they conned the industry into thinking they're a 'full-time' network. They did kill the 'family hour' by putting the shows the other networks would air at 10 on at 9, and the shows the other networks would air at 9 on at 8. And they promoted it as "edgy TV" and America swallowed it whole. And why have they never done 10PM shows? Well, until relatively recently, the FCC applied extra rules to any 'full-time' network with over X hours of prime time programming a week, so Fox was a Real Network to everybody but the FCC. Leading to the even more lame non-networks WB and UPN, which between the two of them couldn't assemble one schedule as The CW. Sad. But the audience is so fragmented now that no single network can put together 22 hours a week of original programming (and with Saturdays filled with reruns and 'burn-off' episodes of cancelled shows, nobody does anymore). But there are more different channels that have picked up the slack, one hour at a time. Is anybody complaining about the programming AMC puts between its two great hours of dramatic TV every week? And here's an extra irony: Fox's cable channel FX is running the shows at 10PM that they're too scared of the FCC to put on broadcast. Anyway, Reality TV had already taken more hours from Prime Time Drama than Leno can, but when you add the content on the NBC-Universal-owned USA and (sigh)SyFy, it's a wash. (USA even gets first dibs on one of the Law & Order spin-offs) Add a half-dozen other cable channels and there is no shortage of "Prime Time Style" television. "Prime Time Quality" is another thing, but it has always been thus. And if you look at NBC's full daily schedule, with most of its daytime programming consisting of 4 hours of "Today", and 3-and-a-half hours of "Tonight" and its spin-offs at night, it is simply evolving slowly into the All-Talk-Show Network, and in a 500 channel TV universe (and with the digital broadcast debacle pushing more viewers into Cable & Satellite, that is becoming the TV universe for anybody with enough money to buy what they're advertising), it's only one channel.
posted by wendell at 1:25 AM on September 29, 2009 [4 favorites]
Two major show-business developments in the past half decade have inspired a combination of puzzlement, vexation, and dread, . . . part of the dread inspired by these announcements had to do with the knowledge that both would take up an inordinate amount of time and space in the news and in the chatosphere.
Add the sentence "Leno at 10 pm sucks" (or some variation) and that's probably all the further any review of this show needs to go. It's like complaining about a shitty pizza at Domino's, ya know? I mean, you went to Domino's.
posted by IvoShandor at 1:35 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Add the sentence "Leno at 10 pm sucks" (or some variation) and that's probably all the further any review of this show needs to go. It's like complaining about a shitty pizza at Domino's, ya know? I mean, you went to Domino's.
posted by IvoShandor at 1:35 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
those videogum articles were far more entertaining than any jay leno show could possibly have been^^
posted by molecicco at 2:18 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by molecicco at 2:18 AM on September 29, 2009
I work on a show that's in direct competition with Leno (as I like to say, everyone complains about Leno, but I actually do something about it)
You've convinced me. Tomorrow, I quit my job and dedicate the rest of my life to stopping Nic Cage from making movies.
posted by mannequito at 3:44 AM on September 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
You've convinced me. Tomorrow, I quit my job and dedicate the rest of my life to stopping Nic Cage from making movies.
posted by mannequito at 3:44 AM on September 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
Larry Wilmore, a comedy writer and producer who talks about racial issues on Jon Stewart’s show, is referred to as the show’s “senior black correspondent”—the joke, and it’s a good one, being the implication that there is, or ever would be, more than one.
The New Yorker doesn't care about Wyatt, people!
posted by kittyprecious at 4:28 AM on September 29, 2009 [4 favorites]
The New Yorker doesn't care about Wyatt, people!
posted by kittyprecious at 4:28 AM on September 29, 2009 [4 favorites]
Wow am I ever out of date. I remember when Jay Leno already HAD a show. When did he not have a show and then get another show?
posted by DU at 4:36 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by DU at 4:36 AM on September 29, 2009
I'm picturing the Venn diagram of people who would watch Jay Leno, and people who read the New Yorker.
The two circles aren't even located in the same state.
Well, I've read the New Yorker all my life, and also enjoy Jay Leno. I'm mystified by the rabid hatred he inspires in a certain breed of self-marginalized losers. There's no question his show could be better (a more intimate studio would help. Both he and my beloved Conan have destroyed their shows with giant studios). I'm thinking that there's something of the politics of "Dad-hatred" in the anti-Leno group, some infantile hostility inspired by the broad Leno chest, the tie, the suit, the little flag pin, the fact that this not-pretty, working class man dares to put on nice clothes and stand powerfully in front of an audience, winning success with nothing but his brains and chutzpah, while so many hipper, better read, knowing more about movies and directors graduates of liberal arts programs are out there with no power over anything more glamorous than their own unread blogs. Yeah, I think it's a class thing. Letterman became tedious and unwatchable 20 years ago. He's been plowing the same, ass-smelly groove (probably Paul Schaffer's) for so long, he barely qualifies as a ventriloquist dummy any more. But Leno's out there, trying something new -- failing, maybe. But at least he's alive.
posted by Faze at 4:53 AM on September 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
The two circles aren't even located in the same state.
Well, I've read the New Yorker all my life, and also enjoy Jay Leno. I'm mystified by the rabid hatred he inspires in a certain breed of self-marginalized losers. There's no question his show could be better (a more intimate studio would help. Both he and my beloved Conan have destroyed their shows with giant studios). I'm thinking that there's something of the politics of "Dad-hatred" in the anti-Leno group, some infantile hostility inspired by the broad Leno chest, the tie, the suit, the little flag pin, the fact that this not-pretty, working class man dares to put on nice clothes and stand powerfully in front of an audience, winning success with nothing but his brains and chutzpah, while so many hipper, better read, knowing more about movies and directors graduates of liberal arts programs are out there with no power over anything more glamorous than their own unread blogs. Yeah, I think it's a class thing. Letterman became tedious and unwatchable 20 years ago. He's been plowing the same, ass-smelly groove (probably Paul Schaffer's) for so long, he barely qualifies as a ventriloquist dummy any more. But Leno's out there, trying something new -- failing, maybe. But at least he's alive.
posted by Faze at 4:53 AM on September 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
the New Yorker's take on the funny that's dished up at California Comedy Traffic Schools was a dead-on description of Leno for me:
[the jokes] were met by the same half hearted laughter, seemingly elicited by some kind of semantic code for comedy, rather than by actual humor
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:19 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
[the jokes] were met by the same half hearted laughter, seemingly elicited by some kind of semantic code for comedy, rather than by actual humor
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:19 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Count me in the ranks of those that don't like Leno the comic, but absolutely adore Leno the car buff. Because if I wasn't all that talented but still managed to make a metric assload of money, I would love to spend it the way he did. And if you've ever heard him talk about the vehicles he owns, you'd see just how honestly enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and I dare say likable the guy can be.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:29 AM on September 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:29 AM on September 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
Humour and entertainment is a tricky biz. And television, being a massed, multicast medium needs to slice their presentations carefully. While I'm not sure that moving these late-night shows around is a bellwether for anything more than the constant retooling that TV has been doing since the the 80s, I'm thinking that homogenized entertainment like late-night talk shows are likely on their last legs.
I happen to think that Leno, et al, have the astonishing ability to suck the humour out of their respective shows. But I'm no longer anywhere near the demographic that they are attempting to appeal to. This begs the question: who is this demographic? Honestly, I don't know anyone, of any age, who finds any of these guys funny, or their shows entertaining.
I'd love to be part of of a group of self-marginalized losers (thanks for that one, stupidsexyFlanders!) that hate Leno on principle, but I think there will always be a group of people who didn't like these shows in the 70s and 80s, and don't like them now, and was mystified by those who thought otherwise. Moving them around won't change that much, probably because there isn't much on TV that /does/ interest them.
I, for one, welcome our specialty channel overlords. I'd rather zone out to something on Slice or one of the cooking channels than tune in to an Official Network Late-Night Anchor Show.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:33 AM on September 29, 2009
I happen to think that Leno, et al, have the astonishing ability to suck the humour out of their respective shows. But I'm no longer anywhere near the demographic that they are attempting to appeal to. This begs the question: who is this demographic? Honestly, I don't know anyone, of any age, who finds any of these guys funny, or their shows entertaining.
I'd love to be part of of a group of self-marginalized losers (thanks for that one, stupidsexyFlanders!) that hate Leno on principle, but I think there will always be a group of people who didn't like these shows in the 70s and 80s, and don't like them now, and was mystified by those who thought otherwise. Moving them around won't change that much, probably because there isn't much on TV that /does/ interest them.
I, for one, welcome our specialty channel overlords. I'd rather zone out to something on Slice or one of the cooking channels than tune in to an Official Network Late-Night Anchor Show.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:33 AM on September 29, 2009
Well, I've read the New Yorker all my life, and also enjoy Jay Leno. I'm mystified by the rabid hatred he inspires in a certain breed of self-marginalized losers. There's no question his show could be better (a more intimate studio would help. Both he and my beloved Conan have destroyed their shows with giant studios). I'm thinking that there's something of the politics of "Dad-hatred" in the anti-Leno group, some infantile hostility inspired by the broad Leno chest, the tie, the suit, the little flag pin, the fact that this not-pretty, working class man dares to put on nice clothes and stand powerfully in front of an audience, winning success with nothing but his brains and chutzpah, while so many hipper, better read, knowing more about movies and directors graduates of liberal arts programs are out there with no power over anything more glamorous than their own unread blogs. Yeah, I think it's a class thing. Letterman became tedious and unwatchable 20 years ago. He's been plowing the same, ass-smelly groove (probably Paul Schaffer's) for so long, he barely qualifies as a ventriloquist dummy any more. But Leno's out there, trying something new -- failing, maybe. But at least he's alive.
Is there such a thing as revisionist present?
posted by aswego at 5:37 AM on September 29, 2009 [6 favorites]
Is there such a thing as revisionist present?
posted by aswego at 5:37 AM on September 29, 2009 [6 favorites]
I'm mystified by the rabid hatred he inspires in a certain breed of self-marginalized losers. There's no question his show could be better (a more intimate studio would help. Both he and my beloved Conan have destroyed their shows with giant studios). I'm thinking that there's something of the politics of "Dad-hatred" in the anti-Leno group, some infantile hostility inspired by the broad Leno chest, the tie, the suit, the little flag pin, the fact that this not-pretty, working class man dares to put on nice clothes and stand powerfully in front of an audience, winning success with nothing but his brains and chutzpah, while so many hipper, better read, knowing more about movies and directors graduates of liberal arts programs are out there with no power over anything more glamorous than their own unread blogs.
You could only top this with a misspelling.
posted by DU at 5:42 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
You could only top this with a misspelling.
posted by DU at 5:42 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
But at least he's alive.
And not sodomizing his bandleader, as is likely the case with other entertainers who do not appeal to me.
And then the clever monkey mistook me for the idiot homophobe. Good day this is turning into.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:46 AM on September 29, 2009
And not sodomizing his bandleader, as is likely the case with other entertainers who do not appeal to me.
And then the clever monkey mistook me for the idiot homophobe. Good day this is turning into.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:46 AM on September 29, 2009
And then the clever monkey mistook me for the idiot homophobe. Good day this is turning into.Oops. Yeah. Sorry about that. I find the MF comments sort of impossible to negotiate. I, of course, was riffing on the silly comments by one "Faze." I apologize for the mistake, which was made honestly and without malice.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:06 AM on September 29, 2009
Think positive. At least Leno replaced "To Catch a Predator".
posted by smackfu at 6:15 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by smackfu at 6:15 AM on September 29, 2009
As an aside, I saw an interesting reaction on Twitter not long ago from one of the writer/producers on TNT's Leverage about this very subject:
Dude is writing for a show that's on a network that didn't even have original dramas a few years ago, and just ran NBC's Law & Order during primetime. Way more than 5 hours of programming have been added to cable channels lately.
posted by smackfu at 6:20 AM on September 29, 2009
Dude is writing for a show that's on a network that didn't even have original dramas a few years ago, and just ran NBC's Law & Order during primetime. Way more than 5 hours of programming have been added to cable channels lately.
posted by smackfu at 6:20 AM on September 29, 2009
My local NBC affiliate tried to dodge the Leno Experiment entirely. When NBC made its "Leno @ 10" decision, WHDH Boston came out with a bunch of "Good news! Local news at 10!" announcements.
Then NBC threatened to strip their affiliation and turn the local Telemundo channel into the Boston-area NBC station.
The Leno Experiment is a bad idea. Anything on that show that becomes draw or buzz worthy will end up on YouTube/NBC.com/Hulu so I can watch it there when I want to join in the watercooler talk. But then again, I don't think I'm the audience NBC wants - I like scripted shows and the closest I ever get to reality TV is The Soup. I also tend not to forgive them for canceling Life, putting the kibosh on the Joel McHale-staring American version of The IT Crowd, and their constant insistence that Heroes is something worth watching. So it's not in NBC's best interests to cater to me - it's probably easier and more profitable to focus on the Dancing With The Fat Chef audience.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:20 AM on September 29, 2009
Then NBC threatened to strip their affiliation and turn the local Telemundo channel into the Boston-area NBC station.
The Leno Experiment is a bad idea. Anything on that show that becomes draw or buzz worthy will end up on YouTube/NBC.com/Hulu so I can watch it there when I want to join in the watercooler talk. But then again, I don't think I'm the audience NBC wants - I like scripted shows and the closest I ever get to reality TV is The Soup. I also tend not to forgive them for canceling Life, putting the kibosh on the Joel McHale-staring American version of The IT Crowd, and their constant insistence that Heroes is something worth watching. So it's not in NBC's best interests to cater to me - it's probably easier and more profitable to focus on the Dancing With The Fat Chef audience.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:20 AM on September 29, 2009
I'm thinking that there's something of the politics of "Dad-hatred" in the anti-Leno group... while so many hipper, better read, knowing more about movies and directors graduates of liberal arts programs are out there...
I'm a dad. I'm not hip, I'm not well read, I don't know shit about movies unless they feature X-Wings, I'm not a college graduate, and yet I haven't laughed at Leno since he was a wide-collared stand-up in the early 80s.
I fully respect his work ethic, but I just don't find that shit funny.
posted by bondcliff at 6:21 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm a dad. I'm not hip, I'm not well read, I don't know shit about movies unless they feature X-Wings, I'm not a college graduate, and yet I haven't laughed at Leno since he was a wide-collared stand-up in the early 80s.
I fully respect his work ethic, but I just don't find that shit funny.
posted by bondcliff at 6:21 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
So it's not in NBC's best interests to cater to me
They just put on a new Joel McHale sitcom.
posted by smackfu at 6:30 AM on September 29, 2009
They just put on a new Joel McHale sitcom.
posted by smackfu at 6:30 AM on September 29, 2009
"...working class man..."
Sorry, middle-class all the way.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:41 AM on September 29, 2009
Sorry, middle-class all the way.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:41 AM on September 29, 2009
clearly he has busted his ass 15 times harder than the average guy
In addition to the show, he does 160 standup gigs a year. I'm not a huge fan, either, but there's no denying he busts his ass.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:45 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
They just put on a new Joel McHale sitcom.
Which we watch (well, TiVo) in hopes it survives the NBC Half Season Curse. I was just far more excited for more IT Crowd.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:46 AM on September 29, 2009
Which we watch (well, TiVo) in hopes it survives the NBC Half Season Curse. I was just far more excited for more IT Crowd.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:46 AM on September 29, 2009
I was thinking about Leno's show just last night (honest!), wondering just how gracefully NBC was going to handle the eventual ratings decline and show cancellation. It will be interesting to see. They hyped this show so much and, well, it's Leno. Whatever you think of the guy (and I fall into the "don't find him funny, but respect the hard work" camp), he's been the network's banner-carrier for a good long time. To replace him with yet another cheap "America Dances with Singing Survivor Chefs" show would be...humiliating.
I really don't see this show lasting even a year. Hell, deep-down, I don't see this lasting past the end of this year.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:00 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
I really don't see this show lasting even a year. Hell, deep-down, I don't see this lasting past the end of this year.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:00 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
but there's no denying he busts his ass.
I listened to a re-broadcast of a "Fresh Air" interview with him recently, while on a day trip, driving for about three hours. Said he never takes vacations, doesn't feel comfortable on them, worked 18 hour days and whatnot to get where he was. He's a textbook workaholic. Maybe this is why his comedy seems so forced and boring to me? He was very funny as a talk show guest in the early '80s when, maybe, he remembered how to relax?
posted by raysmj at 7:16 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
I listened to a re-broadcast of a "Fresh Air" interview with him recently, while on a day trip, driving for about three hours. Said he never takes vacations, doesn't feel comfortable on them, worked 18 hour days and whatnot to get where he was. He's a textbook workaholic. Maybe this is why his comedy seems so forced and boring to me? He was very funny as a talk show guest in the early '80s when, maybe, he remembered how to relax?
posted by raysmj at 7:16 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Why is it that Jay Leno deserves respect because he has a strong Puritan work ethic?
The best you got is that "at least he's still alive" and "at least he's a human being"?
And no, I don't hate Leno because he has a powerful "broad chest" and reminds me of my daddy. Holy late-night cow.
posted by blucevalo at 7:20 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
The best you got is that "at least he's still alive" and "at least he's a human being"?
And no, I don't hate Leno because he has a powerful "broad chest" and reminds me of my daddy. Holy late-night cow.
posted by blucevalo at 7:20 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
pracowity: "Television is just cycling back to the way it used to be. "
It interests me that so much of the hostility is directed at the attempt to create cheaper programming. Usually, reining in one's spending when income goes down is lauded as fiscal responsibility. If networks continue their slide into unprofitable obsolescence, perhaps we'll end up with Kukla, Fran, and Ollie: The Next Generation.
If you'll permit a professional wrestling reference: Leno is like John Cena. Easy for fans to dislike for being far from the best at what he does - and for having less edge than a sphere. But invariably respected by colleagues for professionalism and an unmatched work ethic.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:24 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
It interests me that so much of the hostility is directed at the attempt to create cheaper programming. Usually, reining in one's spending when income goes down is lauded as fiscal responsibility. If networks continue their slide into unprofitable obsolescence, perhaps we'll end up with Kukla, Fran, and Ollie: The Next Generation.
If you'll permit a professional wrestling reference: Leno is like John Cena. Easy for fans to dislike for being far from the best at what he does - and for having less edge than a sphere. But invariably respected by colleagues for professionalism and an unmatched work ethic.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:24 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Show's been on less than a month, and the show isn't locked in to any particular set of elements. They'll tweak it, figure out what works, and go from there. It's way too early to write it off, especially as NBC has its institutional reputation on the line.
Three predictions:
1. It'll be on two years from now.
2. The show then will only vaguely resemble the show now.
3. It will be rather more watchable than it is at the moment.
posted by jscalzi at 7:44 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Three predictions:
1. It'll be on two years from now.
2. The show then will only vaguely resemble the show now.
3. It will be rather more watchable than it is at the moment.
posted by jscalzi at 7:44 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think that many of you are overestimating the readership of the New Yorker, here. The New Yorker is read by aspirational suburbanites who like to think of themselves as well-read and are even inclined to be interested in something new now and again but enjoy the familiarity of Jay Leno.
You have to come to Jay Leno when you're older to like him. When you're really young, he seems appealing, and then as your tastes shift and you grow up, you stop finding him funny. At first, I'd just tune in to his monologue, which was funnier and had better timing than Letterman's, and then I'd promptly switch over to Letterman, whose overall show was much better. Then I stopped watching altogether. On the other hand, if you made the transition in middle age from Carson to Leno, then Leno always seems familiar, not too inoffensive, and your tastes and habits have remained pretty much constant, so you're going to keep on watching Leno.
The comparison to your nice uncle is apt: sure, your parents love him-- they've known him all their lives. And you thought he was pretty cool and funny when you were a kid. But after you've been around a while and grown up a bit, you end up much less impressed with his shtick.
posted by deanc at 7:45 AM on September 29, 2009
You have to come to Jay Leno when you're older to like him. When you're really young, he seems appealing, and then as your tastes shift and you grow up, you stop finding him funny. At first, I'd just tune in to his monologue, which was funnier and had better timing than Letterman's, and then I'd promptly switch over to Letterman, whose overall show was much better. Then I stopped watching altogether. On the other hand, if you made the transition in middle age from Carson to Leno, then Leno always seems familiar, not too inoffensive, and your tastes and habits have remained pretty much constant, so you're going to keep on watching Leno.
The comparison to your nice uncle is apt: sure, your parents love him-- they've known him all their lives. And you thought he was pretty cool and funny when you were a kid. But after you've been around a while and grown up a bit, you end up much less impressed with his shtick.
posted by deanc at 7:45 AM on September 29, 2009
The comparison to your nice uncle is apt: sure, your parents love him-- they've known him all their lives.
I'm old enough to remember when you could say something very similar about Leno's predecessor, Johnny Carson.
posted by blucevalo at 7:59 AM on September 29, 2009
I'm old enough to remember when you could say something very similar about Leno's predecessor, Johnny Carson.
posted by blucevalo at 7:59 AM on September 29, 2009
I think deanc has it. I used to watch the Leno monologue, then switch over to something else and come back for Conan. Then I stopped watching the monologue because it really wasn't all that funny. Then I only watched Conan until he brought on a guest. Then I stopped watching late-night talks shows altogether.
Maybe in 20 years when I've got kids and a mortgage I'll find that sort of gently normative humor, those "Haha look at us we are so white and great! Other people are scary and weird!" jokes funny again.
posted by muddgirl at 8:01 AM on September 29, 2009
Maybe in 20 years when I've got kids and a mortgage I'll find that sort of gently normative humor, those "Haha look at us we are so white and great! Other people are scary and weird!" jokes funny again.
posted by muddgirl at 8:01 AM on September 29, 2009
"If you'll permit a professional wrestling reference: Leno is like John Cena. Easy for fans to dislike for being far from the best at what he does - and for having less edge than a sphere. But invariably respected by colleagues for professionalism and an unmatched work ethic."
I think I'd rather watch John Cena host a late night talk show. He's funnier than Leno, and can you imagine his monologues? That dude can promo like a motherfucker.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 8:07 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think I'd rather watch John Cena host a late night talk show. He's funnier than Leno, and can you imagine his monologues? That dude can promo like a motherfucker.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 8:07 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
He also gives 110% every night
110% of 40% funny is still only 44% funny.
posted by rusty at 8:15 AM on September 29, 2009 [14 favorites]
110% of 40% funny is still only 44% funny.
posted by rusty at 8:15 AM on September 29, 2009 [14 favorites]
@blucevalo Good Lord, don't insult the memory of Johnny Carson by calling him Leno's "predecessor". The Tonight Show mantel is being worn by Letterman in all but the name.
posted by RavinDave at 8:17 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by RavinDave at 8:17 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
ooh, are we talking about Johnny Carson? Classic drunk Ed McMahon.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:28 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:28 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
@Ravindave: Good point, and point taken. I was speaking technically (Jay Leno did take over "The Tonight Show" from Johnny Carson, after all), not spiritually.
posted by blucevalo at 8:28 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by blucevalo at 8:28 AM on September 29, 2009
I'm with Civil Disobedient, Jay Leno's Garage is hosted by a totally different guy. He's relaxed, knowledgeable, unscripted and enjoying himself. God knows why he isn't devoting himself to it full time.
posted by Scoo at 8:44 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Scoo at 8:44 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Leno's style of humor seems older to me. He's 59, and David Letterman's 62, but Leno's more old-fashioned. (Jon Stewart and Conan O'Brien are both 46.)
posted by kirkaracha at 8:47 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:47 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Jay Leno could learn a thing or two from Dave Chappelle - turn his show into a truly riotous skit based show by being funny, controversial, and not afraid to emaciate himself for the sake of comedy. And just like Chappelle, he could return to Europe after a few years to find his "roots". His commercial/skit with Fred Armisen when they commit vehicular manslaughter - GOLDEN!!! I wish his new show took chances like that, it would be worth watching.
posted by spoons at 9:01 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by spoons at 9:01 AM on September 29, 2009
Well, I've read the New Yorker all my life, and also enjoy Jay Leno. I'm mystified by the rabid hatred he inspires in a certain breed of self-marginalized losers.
I don't really hate Leno. I just don't find him that funny. I think his shtick is kind of bland and irritating, and I've watched Letterman since his early days on NBC (though hardly at all anymore), but it's just different tastes. I always figured Leno was the guy who was good at telling jokes but who wasn't innovative enough to be flat-out hilarious. To get to that point you have to be willing to go out on a limb, which is much more precarious than his career path has indicated he's willing to do. He works and works doing standup gigs, almost one every other day despite his day job, and I can't fault him for that, but he's not going to be remembered for any particular moments or bits.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:07 AM on September 29, 2009
I don't really hate Leno. I just don't find him that funny. I think his shtick is kind of bland and irritating, and I've watched Letterman since his early days on NBC (though hardly at all anymore), but it's just different tastes. I always figured Leno was the guy who was good at telling jokes but who wasn't innovative enough to be flat-out hilarious. To get to that point you have to be willing to go out on a limb, which is much more precarious than his career path has indicated he's willing to do. He works and works doing standup gigs, almost one every other day despite his day job, and I can't fault him for that, but he's not going to be remembered for any particular moments or bits.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:07 AM on September 29, 2009
RavinDave makes a good point -- Leno got Carson's show, Letterman got Carson's heritage. "The Late Show" is much more the inheritor of the stuff that Steve Allen and Johnny Carson did (sadly, no one really does what Jack Paar did), while Leno got the infrastructure. Watching Conan lately, it feels even emptier. Although Letterman's best days are at least 10 years behind him, he's the one we'll all miss when he's gone.
I agree with jscalzi's analysis, too: Jay's not going anywhere for a while, and they'll figure out how to lose the stuff that isn't working (like those awful chairs) over the next few months. They needed to get him in the slot in time for "Fall Season" pretty badly, and they'll worry about making it work later.
posted by briank at 9:12 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
I agree with jscalzi's analysis, too: Jay's not going anywhere for a while, and they'll figure out how to lose the stuff that isn't working (like those awful chairs) over the next few months. They needed to get him in the slot in time for "Fall Season" pretty badly, and they'll worry about making it work later.
posted by briank at 9:12 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
1. It'll be on two years from now.
2. The show then will only vaguely resemble the show now.
3. It will be rather more watchable than it is at the moment.
4. It'll be on at 11:30.
5. Conan will be out of a job.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:12 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
2. The show then will only vaguely resemble the show now.
3. It will be rather more watchable than it is at the moment.
4. It'll be on at 11:30.
5. Conan will be out of a job.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:12 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Leno the stand-up comic was actually pretty good, and Leno the writer was apparently much sought-after by the comics of the day.
But Leno the host of The Tonight Show? Leno the Johnny Carson replacement? Leno the reader of other staff writers' lame jokes? Horrible from day one, and that's not really his fault.
posted by rocket88 at 9:20 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
But Leno the host of The Tonight Show? Leno the Johnny Carson replacement? Leno the reader of other staff writers' lame jokes? Horrible from day one, and that's not really his fault.
posted by rocket88 at 9:20 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
turn his show into a truly riotous skit based show by being funny, controversial, and not afraid to emaciate himself for the sake of comedy.
That explains why Conan is a bit off his game since he packed on a few extra pounds.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:21 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
That explains why Conan is a bit off his game since he packed on a few extra pounds.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:21 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
110% of 40% funny is still only 44% funny.
You can prove anything with numbers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:22 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
You can prove anything with numbers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:22 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
stupidsexyFlanders: "ooh, are we talking about Johnny Carson? Classic drunk Ed McMahon ."
Aside from Johnny's checked blazer (!) , what struck me about that clip was how perfect Carson's comedic timing was. People always talked about what a master he was - and I always went "yeah, yeah, whatever" - but it's true. That kind of timing is a gift. You can't learn it. Michael J. Fox had it too.
posted by Joe Beese at 9:29 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Aside from Johnny's checked blazer (!) , what struck me about that clip was how perfect Carson's comedic timing was. People always talked about what a master he was - and I always went "yeah, yeah, whatever" - but it's true. That kind of timing is a gift. You can't learn it. Michael J. Fox had it too.
posted by Joe Beese at 9:29 AM on September 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Conan needs to get off his lazy ass and get a cable show where he can be more naughty and edgy and stuff.
Conan needs to stop constantly clapping his hands, licking his lips, saying "yeah," and repeating the setup, and remarking on the audience reaction during every single Leno-shamingly lame monologue joke.
And also bring out some characters. Where'd all the characters go? PARADE OF NEW CHARACTERS WILL SAVE YOU, CONAN.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:29 AM on September 29, 2009
Conan needs to stop constantly clapping his hands, licking his lips, saying "yeah," and repeating the setup, and remarking on the audience reaction during every single Leno-shamingly lame monologue joke.
And also bring out some characters. Where'd all the characters go? PARADE OF NEW CHARACTERS WILL SAVE YOU, CONAN.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:29 AM on September 29, 2009
And also bring out some characters. Where'd all the characters go? PARADE OF NEW CHARACTERS WILL SAVE YOU, CONAN.
Yes, but will it play in Peoria? Apparently not, according to The Powers That Be.
Personally, I agree with you—there's nothing wrong with Conan that a little Vomiting Kermit the Frog or Robot-on-a-Toilet couldn't fix.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:54 AM on September 29, 2009
Yes, but will it play in Peoria? Apparently not, according to The Powers That Be.
Personally, I agree with you—there's nothing wrong with Conan that a little Vomiting Kermit the Frog or Robot-on-a-Toilet couldn't fix.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:54 AM on September 29, 2009
Won't someone think of the product placements!? (via waxy)
posted by howling fantods at 10:00 AM on September 29, 2009
posted by howling fantods at 10:00 AM on September 29, 2009
I'd like to see Leno in an American version of Top Gear.
posted by brand-gnu at 10:30 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by brand-gnu at 10:30 AM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
The irony of The New Yorker pointing out the unfunny in others while continuing to publish their own comics has not escaped me.
They're funny if you live on a coast.
Leno was actually funny in the 80's if you watch the old Letterman appearances. Oh: Letterman was funny back then, too.
posted by Zambrano at 10:44 AM on September 29, 2009
They're funny if you live on a coast.
Leno was actually funny in the 80's if you watch the old Letterman appearances. Oh: Letterman was funny back then, too.
posted by Zambrano at 10:44 AM on September 29, 2009
I was thinking about Leno's show just last night (honest!), wondering just how gracefully NBC was going to handle the eventual ratings decline and show cancellation. It will be interesting to see.
Different network, but I keep thinking of those Emily's Reasons Why Not billboards that hung around for months after the show was canned. I think it's purely hilarious to watch them put all their eggs in one basket, and then instantly drop the basket.
posted by anazgnos at 10:47 AM on September 29, 2009
Different network, but I keep thinking of those Emily's Reasons Why Not billboards that hung around for months after the show was canned. I think it's purely hilarious to watch them put all their eggs in one basket, and then instantly drop the basket.
posted by anazgnos at 10:47 AM on September 29, 2009
Conan needs to get off his lazy ass and get a cable show where he can be more naughty and edgy and stuff.
I'm sure his giant salary increase made up for any creative differences.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:58 AM on September 29, 2009
I'm sure his giant salary increase made up for any creative differences.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:58 AM on September 29, 2009
I'd like to see Leno in an American version of Top Gear.
That might work, actually, but you need to pair him up with just the right person so it's not all about Jay and his car fetish. The British version works well like that.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:59 AM on September 29, 2009
That might work, actually, but you need to pair him up with just the right person so it's not all about Jay and his car fetish. The British version works well like that.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:59 AM on September 29, 2009
I'm sure his giant salary increase made up for any creative differences.
IIRC, Conan bought a multi-million-dollar home just before the market tanked. So, maybe not.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:03 AM on September 29, 2009
IIRC, Conan bought a multi-million-dollar home just before the market tanked. So, maybe not.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:03 AM on September 29, 2009
(Jay Leno on television)
:
(Jay Leno talking about cars, which is actually pretty good)
::
(Adam Carolla's insipid, overtly racist and sexist, wildly popular comedy podcast, featuring genuinely-thinks-he's-a-moderate-but-too-dumb-to-know-it conservative talking points, )
:
(Adam Carolla's new CarCast podcast, which is actually pretty good)
I think Carolla's really funny, but I finally couldn't take it anymore and gave up on the main podcast a few weeks ago. IMO he's more dangerous than Limbaugh/Beck, because he draws legions of listeners who get to license themselves even-handed moderates as well while they absorb vaguely menacing shit about big bad government and women in between the jokes. The CarCast is pretty much always more technical and interesting and I recommend it.
Uh, this isn't really a thread about that. Carry on.
posted by Kwine at 11:05 AM on September 29, 2009
:
(Jay Leno talking about cars, which is actually pretty good)
::
(Adam Carolla's insipid, overtly racist and sexist, wildly popular comedy podcast, featuring genuinely-thinks-he's-a-moderate-but-too-dumb-to-know-it conservative talking points, )
:
(Adam Carolla's new CarCast podcast, which is actually pretty good)
I think Carolla's really funny, but I finally couldn't take it anymore and gave up on the main podcast a few weeks ago. IMO he's more dangerous than Limbaugh/Beck, because he draws legions of listeners who get to license themselves even-handed moderates as well while they absorb vaguely menacing shit about big bad government and women in between the jokes. The CarCast is pretty much always more technical and interesting and I recommend it.
Uh, this isn't really a thread about that. Carry on.
posted by Kwine at 11:05 AM on September 29, 2009
faze = Leno???
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 12:03 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 12:03 PM on September 29, 2009
there's nothing wrong with Conan that a little Vomiting Kermit the Frog or Robot-on-a-Toilet couldn't fix.
Ou sont les Pimpbots 5000 d'antan, indeed.
posted by elizardbits at 12:19 PM on September 29, 2009
Ou sont les Pimpbots 5000 d'antan, indeed.
posted by elizardbits at 12:19 PM on September 29, 2009
But Leno's out there, trying something new -- failing, maybe. But at least he's alive.
He's alive, ladies and gentlemen! Funny, schmunny, amirite? He breathes, his heart's pumping—give this man a show!
posted by Sys Rq at 12:28 PM on September 29, 2009
He's alive, ladies and gentlemen! Funny, schmunny, amirite? He breathes, his heart's pumping—give this man a show!
posted by Sys Rq at 12:28 PM on September 29, 2009
I've worked in television, and I can say with absolute certainty that this is absolute horseshit.
posted by dhammond
Little known fact, those thousands of people were actually FIRED by Jay Leno personally. Granted it was in endless skits of him mimicking Trump's "You're fired!" but can you blame HIM that his contract stipulates all skit firings are binding?
He works harder than a puritan tied to Sisyphus, has a giant Dad-like working man's chin, is completely not deceased, and sweet Jesus love 'im, the cars!
Give the man a break! And another hour of nightly television!
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:34 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by dhammond
Little known fact, those thousands of people were actually FIRED by Jay Leno personally. Granted it was in endless skits of him mimicking Trump's "You're fired!" but can you blame HIM that his contract stipulates all skit firings are binding?
He works harder than a puritan tied to Sisyphus, has a giant Dad-like working man's chin, is completely not deceased, and sweet Jesus love 'im, the cars!
Give the man a break! And another hour of nightly television!
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:34 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Everybody in this thread who doesn't watch any late night television ever, needs to check out Craig Ferguson. He's actually funny. And he talks about stuff outside the normal talk-show-host-repeating-the-news fare.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:39 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by joannemerriam at 12:39 PM on September 29, 2009
He works harder than a puritan tied to Sisyphus, has a giant Dad-like working man's chin
Chest. That's a giant working-man's chest. That only infantile Daddy-haters would hate.
posted by blucevalo at 12:42 PM on September 29, 2009
Chest. That's a giant working-man's chest. That only infantile Daddy-haters would hate.
posted by blucevalo at 12:42 PM on September 29, 2009
Chest. That's a giant working-man's chest. That only infantile Daddy-haters would hate.
posted by blucevalo
Have you seen him? I stand by what I said. Infants like giant chests, anyways.
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:50 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by blucevalo
Have you seen him? I stand by what I said. Infants like giant chests, anyways.
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:50 PM on September 29, 2009
The only good thing about Jay Leno is his existence provides epic Howard Stern rants.
posted by cell divide at 12:52 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by cell divide at 12:52 PM on September 29, 2009
But at least he's alive.
Cite please.
posted by spicynuts at 12:56 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Cite please.
posted by spicynuts at 12:56 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Chest. That's a giant working-man's chest.
Shirt. That is a denim shirt on a man whose "work" is to read bad jokes off of cue cards.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:57 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Shirt. That is a denim shirt on a man whose "work" is to read bad jokes off of cue cards.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:57 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't know, you guys, I mean - Jimmy Fallon's still on the air. America adores shit talk shows and lame hosts, obviously.
posted by tristeza at 2:31 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by tristeza at 2:31 PM on September 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Hell, Carson Daly is still on the air. How is that even possible?
posted by Sys Rq at 2:35 PM on September 29, 2009
posted by Sys Rq at 2:35 PM on September 29, 2009
Count me in the ranks of those that don't like Leno the comic, but absolutely adore Leno the car buff. Because if I wasn't all that talented but still managed to make a metric assload of money, I would love to spend it the way he did. And if you've ever heard him talk about the vehicles he owns, you'd see just how honestly enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and I dare say likable the guy can be.
Wow, that link is amazing! The guy has a friggin' steam car collection!
posted by Ndwright at 3:07 PM on September 29, 2009
Wow, that link is amazing! The guy has a friggin' steam car collection!
posted by Ndwright at 3:07 PM on September 29, 2009
deanc: "I think that many of you are overestimating the readership of the New Yorker, here. The New Yorker is read by aspirational suburbanites who like to think of themselves as well-read and are even inclined to be interested in something new now and again but enjoy the familiarity of Jay Leno."
I live in New York and, well, New Yorkers read the New Yorker a lot, too. The rest of your post jumps off from the same point—you've plied your own subjective experience and perspective into a seemingly objective construction of the way things are.
I'd say people are very familiar with Andy Rooney, too; does that make his rantings any less inane? I guess he could be the crazy uncle.
Also, Jay Leno is dreadfully unfunny.
posted by defenestration at 3:09 PM on September 29, 2009
I live in New York and, well, New Yorkers read the New Yorker a lot, too. The rest of your post jumps off from the same point—you've plied your own subjective experience and perspective into a seemingly objective construction of the way things are.
I'd say people are very familiar with Andy Rooney, too; does that make his rantings any less inane? I guess he could be the crazy uncle.
Also, Jay Leno is dreadfully unfunny.
posted by defenestration at 3:09 PM on September 29, 2009
In addition to the show, he does 160 standup gigs a year. I'm not a huge fan, either, but there's no denying he busts his ass.
Then he should get a job where busting your ass is the most important factor. He's chosen a profession where talent and charisma are more important, and he has neither of those. "Busting your ass" as a comedian, at least when it's in a way which is obvious to the audience, is counterproductive. it just feels painful. Comedians may have to work at it, but they're a lot funnier as personas who are responding spontaneously - that's why you don't want to see the same jokes over and over.
Like Mitch Hedberg puts it: "Sometimes in the middle of the night, I think of something that's funny, then I go get a pen and I write it down. Or if the pen's too far away, I have to convince myself that what I thought of ain't funny." That's the kind of work ethic that's fit for a good comedian (it doesn't matter how hard they actually work - once they're on stage, they have to be able to let go)
posted by mdn at 8:42 AM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Then he should get a job where busting your ass is the most important factor. He's chosen a profession where talent and charisma are more important, and he has neither of those. "Busting your ass" as a comedian, at least when it's in a way which is obvious to the audience, is counterproductive. it just feels painful. Comedians may have to work at it, but they're a lot funnier as personas who are responding spontaneously - that's why you don't want to see the same jokes over and over.
Like Mitch Hedberg puts it: "Sometimes in the middle of the night, I think of something that's funny, then I go get a pen and I write it down. Or if the pen's too far away, I have to convince myself that what I thought of ain't funny." That's the kind of work ethic that's fit for a good comedian (it doesn't matter how hard they actually work - once they're on stage, they have to be able to let go)
posted by mdn at 8:42 AM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yeah, maybe he can find another profession where he can more successful... than having a primetime show on five nights a week.
posted by smackfu at 9:01 AM on September 30, 2009
posted by smackfu at 9:01 AM on September 30, 2009
well, I think he'd make a decent car salesman - he sure knows a lot about cars...
posted by mdn at 9:52 AM on September 30, 2009
posted by mdn at 9:52 AM on September 30, 2009
It's like complaining about a shitty pizza at Domino's, ya know? I mean, you went to Domino's.
Isn't that a shitty pizza you got from Dominos, ya know ? I mean, ninety nine times out of ten, you call Domino's and they deliver. So to speak. Or do you have to own a television to remember that ?
posted by y2karl at 12:28 PM on September 30, 2009
Isn't that a shitty pizza you got from Dominos, ya know ? I mean, ninety nine times out of ten, you call Domino's and they deliver. So to speak. Or do you have to own a television to remember that ?
posted by y2karl at 12:28 PM on September 30, 2009
Isn't that a shitty pizza you got from Dominos, ya know ? I mean, ninety nine times out of ten, you call Domino's and they deliver. So to speak. Or do you have to own a television to remember that ?
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by IvoShandor at 11:08 PM on September 30, 2009
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by IvoShandor at 11:08 PM on September 30, 2009
Well, OK, my bad--ninety-eight times out of ten, then.
posted by y2karl at 9:33 AM on October 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 9:33 AM on October 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
« Older Hi, How Are You | Are polymathy and general knowledge in decline? Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by mrnutty at 8:43 PM on September 28, 2009