Bella Swan - The Anti-Buffy
November 21, 2009 5:24 AM Subscribe
Feminist critiques of the Twilight series aren't hard to find. Laura Miller's at Salon and and Christine Seifert's at Bitch Magazine are among the best. But as biting criticism of the Twilight's patriarchal gender roles, they fall well short of Buffy vs. Edward: Twilight Remixed.
And if you can't get enough Bella-vs-Buffy action, here's a longer-form comparison of the stalking scenes from each series.
And if you can't get enough Bella-vs-Buffy action, here's a longer-form comparison of the stalking scenes from each series.
I like the video, but if only there were a way to remove the stupid blue-grey Twilight filter. Yes, we get the name of the book is Twilight. REAL CLEVER, DIRECTOR!
I'm not into video editing, so I don't know if Final Cut Pro has a de-emo-ify button. But if it does, it'd help merge Buffy and Edward so much more.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:31 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm not into video editing, so I don't know if Final Cut Pro has a de-emo-ify button. But if it does, it'd help merge Buffy and Edward so much more.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:31 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Oh good, this will let me get a chance to get this comment in, which completly shocked me:
posted by delmoi at 6:33 AM on November 21, 2009
Meyer's commitment to satisfying that need hasn't gone unrewarded. In the first quarter of 2009, Twilight novels composed 16 percent of all book sales -- four out of every 25 books sold were part of the series. The final installment, Breaking Dawn, sold 1.3 million copies on the day of its release in August 2008.That's an aside in this article which is a sort of "feminist defense" of twilight.
posted by delmoi at 6:33 AM on November 21, 2009
Alyssa Rosenberg writing in the atlantic why twilight is not her favorite fantasy work.
posted by shothotbot at 6:35 AM on November 21, 2009
posted by shothotbot at 6:35 AM on November 21, 2009
> Meyer's commitment to satisfying that need hasn't gone unrewarded. In the first quarter of 2009, Twilight novels composed 16 percent of all book sales -- four out of every 25 books sold were part of the series. The final installment, Breaking Dawn, sold 1.3 million copies on the day of its release in August 2008.
As a 36 year old man without kids I've been pretty far removed from the whole Twilight phenomenon, but a few months ago a teenage girl came into the library where I work looking for the first book in the series (which still has over 300 holds on it, down from over 2000). When we tracked down an uncataloged paperback copy that was (miraculously) actually on the shelf she looked like she'd died and gone to heaven on Christmas morning and actually hugged the book to her chest. Say what you will, but not even the Harry Potter books inspired that level of fandom.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:58 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
As a 36 year old man without kids I've been pretty far removed from the whole Twilight phenomenon, but a few months ago a teenage girl came into the library where I work looking for the first book in the series (which still has over 300 holds on it, down from over 2000). When we tracked down an uncataloged paperback copy that was (miraculously) actually on the shelf she looked like she'd died and gone to heaven on Christmas morning and actually hugged the book to her chest. Say what you will, but not even the Harry Potter books inspired that level of fandom.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:58 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
How come nobody points out the real story of Tweelight? Belle is clearly an undiagnosed asthmatic. Get that girl an inhaler!
posted by srboisvert at 7:32 AM on November 21, 2009
posted by srboisvert at 7:32 AM on November 21, 2009
I know nothing about Twilight and very little about Buffy. Could someone explain to me why that Edward cat, who is, I am reliably informed is a vampire, always seems to be out and about in the daytime? Also, if you're an ancient vampire why the fuck do you go to high school? I mean, really. High school? I didn't want to do to high school when I was effing 16. When I'm a billionty year old immortal, there's no way in hell you'll catch me anywhere near a high school, unless it was having one of those Red Cross blood drives at midnight.
posted by dortmunder at 7:57 AM on November 21, 2009 [12 favorites]
posted by dortmunder at 7:57 AM on November 21, 2009 [12 favorites]
dortmunder, I suspect the guy hangs out around a high school for the same reason other older guys hang out around them: teen girls, ripe for the picking!
posted by autoclavicle at 8:09 AM on November 21, 2009
posted by autoclavicle at 8:09 AM on November 21, 2009
Bitch is the bomb.
posted by kozad at 8:12 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by kozad at 8:12 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
dortmunder, I suspect the guy hangs out around a high school for the same reason other older guys hang out around them: teen girls, ripe for the picking!
Yes, but high school takes place between 7 am and 3 pm, when the sun is, barring an eclipse, visible. Is he some sort of reverse vampire or something? Does he have really strong sunscreen? What's the freaking deal?
posted by dortmunder at 8:19 AM on November 21, 2009
In the movie, the explanation is 'the younger we seem when we move someplace, the longer we can stay there.' Which, ok, but you'd think skipping the high school years wouldn't make that big of a difference.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:21 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:21 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
The four-book series traces the transformation of Bella Swann, a competent, if clumsy and withdrawn girl, into a modern-day princess
Huh, so the Disney princess stuff just continues right up through the age brackets. What's at the end, being crowned a trophy wife?
posted by crapmatic at 8:22 AM on November 21, 2009 [11 favorites]
Huh, so the Disney princess stuff just continues right up through the age brackets. What's at the end, being crowned a trophy wife?
posted by crapmatic at 8:22 AM on November 21, 2009 [11 favorites]
Huh, so the Disney princess stuff just continues right up through the age brackets. What's at the end, being crowned a trophy wife?
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner folks.
posted by dortmunder at 8:23 AM on November 21, 2009 [7 favorites]
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner folks.
posted by dortmunder at 8:23 AM on November 21, 2009 [7 favorites]
Yes, but high school takes place between 7 am and 3 pm, when the sun is, barring an eclipse, visible. Is he some sort of reverse vampire or something? Does he have really strong sunscreen? What's the freaking deal?
Oh gosh it's even worse than you think. See, these vampires don't sleep EVER, they're awake 24-7. So the only reason for them to stay in during the day is... in direct sunlight, their skin sparkles like diamonds. NO, REALLY. So, they live in Washington State where it's usually overcast, so they can go out during the day when there are clouds.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:24 AM on November 21, 2009
Oh gosh it's even worse than you think. See, these vampires don't sleep EVER, they're awake 24-7. So the only reason for them to stay in during the day is... in direct sunlight, their skin sparkles like diamonds. NO, REALLY. So, they live in Washington State where it's usually overcast, so they can go out during the day when there are clouds.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:24 AM on November 21, 2009
Oh gosh it's even worse than you think. See, these vampires don't sleep EVER, they're awake 24-7. So the only reason for them to stay in during the day is... in direct sunlight, their skin sparkles like diamonds. NO, REALLY. So, they live in Washington State where it's usually overcast, so they can go out during the day when there are clouds.
Oh man. I'm gonna hate myself for asking, but what do they do about the whole overwhelming need to drink human blood thing? Are they polite about it? Do they raise cows, and then suck on their necks like vampire bats? Do they burglarize bloodbanks? No, they wouldn't steal blood. That would be wrong. Vampires are monsters goddamnit. They are evil.
posted by dortmunder at 8:32 AM on November 21, 2009
Oh man. I'm gonna hate myself for asking, but what do they do about the whole overwhelming need to drink human blood thing? Are they polite about it? Do they raise cows, and then suck on their necks like vampire bats? Do they burglarize bloodbanks? No, they wouldn't steal blood. That would be wrong. Vampires are monsters goddamnit. They are evil.
posted by dortmunder at 8:32 AM on November 21, 2009
> So, they live in Washington State where it's usually overcast, so they can go out during the day when there are clouds.
Yeah, when I heard that I wondered how the books got around the fact that even in Washington there are plenty of sunny days. According to Seattle's wikipedia page it's cloudy an average of 226 days, which still leaves 139 sunny days to deal with. And what do the vampires do if it's cloudy when they leave for school but clears up later on?
Stoopid.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:33 AM on November 21, 2009
Yeah, when I heard that I wondered how the books got around the fact that even in Washington there are plenty of sunny days. According to Seattle's wikipedia page it's cloudy an average of 226 days, which still leaves 139 sunny days to deal with. And what do the vampires do if it's cloudy when they leave for school but clears up later on?
Stoopid.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:33 AM on November 21, 2009
I am pleased to note that Alyssa Rosenberg's middle-school self's reading list and my middle-school self's reading list are virtually identical. Although she did leave out Tamora Pierce.
(I owe her for reminding me about Juniper and Wise Child, though, I used to love those and had utterly forgotten about them, although I think it might have been Juniper that sparked a lifelong interest in the craft of weaving.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:34 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
(I owe her for reminding me about Juniper and Wise Child, though, I used to love those and had utterly forgotten about them, although I think it might have been Juniper that sparked a lifelong interest in the craft of weaving.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:34 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
if you're an ancient vampire why the fuck do you go to high school? I mean, really. High school?
"That's what I love about these high school girls..."
posted by hippybear at 8:38 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
"That's what I love about these high school girls..."
posted by hippybear at 8:38 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
We just spent 170-some-odd comments shitting on how much novelists get paid, basically tearing in to Lynn Viehl, with comment after comment complaining that she doesn't deserve her measly, piddling 40 grand a book. Now here we have Stephenie Meyer (she can't even spell her name right) and the scourge that are the Twilight books, and this is the best MeFi can come up with? C'mon! Pitchforks, people!
posted by incessant at 8:41 AM on November 21, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by incessant at 8:41 AM on November 21, 2009 [4 favorites]
Stephenie Meyer (she can't even spell her name right)
How would you spell "Stephen-ee Mee-yer"?
posted by explosion at 9:06 AM on November 21, 2009
How would you spell "Stephen-ee Mee-yer"?
posted by explosion at 9:06 AM on November 21, 2009
Oh man. I'm gonna hate myself for asking, but what do they do about the whole overwhelming need to drink human blood thing? Are they polite about it? Do they raise cows, and then suck on their necks like vampire bats? Do they burglarize bloodbanks? No, they wouldn't steal blood. That would be wrong. Vampires are monsters goddamnit. They are evil.
Well. The main family of vampires in the book never drink human blood, because the patriarch is this super noble dude who only turns people who are dying anyway. So he's got this whole family of people he saved from their deathbeds, and they just hang around not killing people, I guess. (Also, they all pose as his foster children, yet a bunch of them are paired up. It's creepy.) Other vampires are bad, although I'm not sure if it's ALL other vampires. So anyway, they eat animals.
The whole 'overwhelming need' thing is the (only) plot point, because, you see, our heroine has the awesomest smelling blood IN THE WORLD, so all vampires really really want to eat her. So Edward can hardly stand to be around her because he's not sure he can keep himself from eating her. Note: This is never actually much of an issue, and is also a pretty clear Mormon analogy about premarital sex.
(My friend made me watch the first one a few nights ago. And she kept making me not laugh.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:06 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
Well. The main family of vampires in the book never drink human blood, because the patriarch is this super noble dude who only turns people who are dying anyway. So he's got this whole family of people he saved from their deathbeds, and they just hang around not killing people, I guess. (Also, they all pose as his foster children, yet a bunch of them are paired up. It's creepy.) Other vampires are bad, although I'm not sure if it's ALL other vampires. So anyway, they eat animals.
The whole 'overwhelming need' thing is the (only) plot point, because, you see, our heroine has the awesomest smelling blood IN THE WORLD, so all vampires really really want to eat her. So Edward can hardly stand to be around her because he's not sure he can keep himself from eating her. Note: This is never actually much of an issue, and is also a pretty clear Mormon analogy about premarital sex.
(My friend made me watch the first one a few nights ago. And she kept making me not laugh.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:06 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
delmoi's comment is the most horrifying statistic I've ever read in my entire life.
posted by specialagentwebb at 9:08 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by specialagentwebb at 9:08 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
OK, that video was brilliant. What a great way to illustrate what we were clumsily trying to discuss two days ago.
dortmunder, these folks are very kind to try explaining the Twilight vampire mythology, but you're not really going to get to the truth of the story that way. I think this image search will get you a lot closer to understanding the film's appeal.
posted by Nelson at 9:21 AM on November 21, 2009
dortmunder, these folks are very kind to try explaining the Twilight vampire mythology, but you're not really going to get to the truth of the story that way. I think this image search will get you a lot closer to understanding the film's appeal.
posted by Nelson at 9:21 AM on November 21, 2009
Related: the 30 most disturbing Twilight(-inspired) products on io9, including #26, the sparkling silicone dildo.
posted by Decimask at 9:40 AM on November 21, 2009
posted by Decimask at 9:40 AM on November 21, 2009
delmoi's comment is the most horrifying statistic I've ever read in my entire life.
Read it again—there's a big ol' drop of skin-sparkin' sunshine in that there statistic:
Read it again—there's a big ol' drop of skin-sparkin' sunshine in that there statistic:
Meyer's commitment to satisfying that need hasn't gone unrewarded. In the first quarter of 2009, Twilight novels composed 16 percent of all book sales -- four out of every 25 books sold were part of the series. The installment, Breaking Dawn, sold 1.3 million copies on the day of its release in August 2008.posted by Sys Rq at 10:18 AM on November 21, 2009
They also don't live in a creepy Romanian castle. I saw the first movie just for the lush shots of the Hoke House. The tiny pictures don't really do it justice. Anyone know if there's any ode to modernist architecture in the new movie?
Also everyone knows what makes this book so attractive to teen girls is precisely because it is safe. It is like having a perpetual crush that is never consummated. There's no peer pressure, there's no vampire family drama. Vampires are just used as a vehicle to explain why there's no messy complications that normally arise out of adult relationships. The story is only tangentially related to vampires and the supernatural. The crux of the problem is that we know the idea of an always moral family is an absurd proposition in itself and you start having epistemological questions arising how we can know what truly is a moral act, that morality has no bearing on the actual impact and that morality itself is dynamic and ambiguous. Better writers create characters like vampires to explore these sort of questions, the bad ones use it as an excuse to create a reality that can never exist.
Now if you excuse me I'm working on my adaptation of Seventh Seal , where death is played by a smoldering Zac Efron who follows a geeky, shy Emma Watson as they play a tense game of Sudoku. Only death doesn't actually kill people and the outcome of the game decides whether she gets to stay with her cool dad or move to LA to live with her mom.
posted by geoff. at 10:25 AM on November 21, 2009 [9 favorites]
Also everyone knows what makes this book so attractive to teen girls is precisely because it is safe. It is like having a perpetual crush that is never consummated. There's no peer pressure, there's no vampire family drama. Vampires are just used as a vehicle to explain why there's no messy complications that normally arise out of adult relationships. The story is only tangentially related to vampires and the supernatural. The crux of the problem is that we know the idea of an always moral family is an absurd proposition in itself and you start having epistemological questions arising how we can know what truly is a moral act, that morality has no bearing on the actual impact and that morality itself is dynamic and ambiguous. Better writers create characters like vampires to explore these sort of questions, the bad ones use it as an excuse to create a reality that can never exist.
Now if you excuse me I'm working on my adaptation of Seventh Seal , where death is played by a smoldering Zac Efron who follows a geeky, shy Emma Watson as they play a tense game of Sudoku. Only death doesn't actually kill people and the outcome of the game decides whether she gets to stay with her cool dad or move to LA to live with her mom.
posted by geoff. at 10:25 AM on November 21, 2009 [9 favorites]
..where death is played by a smoldering Zac Efron who follows a geeky, shy Emma Watson as they play a tense game of Sudoku. Only death doesn't actually kill people and the outcome of the game decides whether she gets to stay with her cool dad or move to LA to live with her mom.
My understanding is that this project has already been greenlighted for a major motion picture followed up by a more sitcom-ish prime-time spinoff on ABC.
posted by Avenger at 10:45 AM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
My understanding is that this project has already been greenlighted for a major motion picture followed up by a more sitcom-ish prime-time spinoff on ABC.
posted by Avenger at 10:45 AM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
...and it'll be called Seventh Girl.
posted by Avenger at 10:46 AM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Avenger at 10:46 AM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
It is like having a perpetual crush that is never consummated.
It's exactly that. See also: the "shipping" culture on TV show/book fan messageboards that inevitably gets disappointed when their couple of choice actually get together (which is why a lot of pairings end up not being canon, and thus disappointment is permanently avoided). I wish I could look down on this whole section of society/the internet, but once being a teenager from a horribly fractured home life that had the misfortune to crush on her English teacher, I can very easily identify with the urge to put something up on a pedestal that can't hurt you, especially when you're in an environment that seems geared to make you hurt regardless of the steps you take in life.
But that doesn't mean to say I don't despair, seeing young women having these idea reinforced as OK in their heads by the outside world. There's no attempts by the responsible adult (Meyer) to offer alternative paths to happiness, to imbue some idea of self esteem, to even present a realistic impression of men in relationships or sexuality. Balanced role models are vital during the teenage years, and you can end up with a really stunted view of the life if you're denied that.
I fully believe that a good proportion of the girls reading these books will go on to find their own thoughts, and will be changed by other external factors, but I equally think a lot of them won't. Feminism is really tarnished in the younger generations, I'm 25 and it took me a good 5 years to get over the bullshit that swirls around society's view of this ideology. There's very little female-positive media out there, very few prominent women standing up and attaching that label to themselves. Everything seems to lean towards tailoring your body (you need large breasts!) and mind (don't nag!) towards attracting the opposite sex, despite the legions of women achieving highly in academic fields and going on to live existences free of such things. I have only read parts of the books, but there seems to be no indication that this exists in Meyer's world, and for a lot of girls stuck in their bedrooms with Jesus on the walls, Meyer's world is their world.
It's really frustrating.
In short, if I ruled the world, I'd keep the books on the shelves, but I'd clone and bundle Jessica Valenti with every unit sold. Balance out the fantasy with a little reality, and you can't go wrong surely?
posted by saturnine at 10:58 AM on November 21, 2009 [5 favorites]
It's exactly that. See also: the "shipping" culture on TV show/book fan messageboards that inevitably gets disappointed when their couple of choice actually get together (which is why a lot of pairings end up not being canon, and thus disappointment is permanently avoided). I wish I could look down on this whole section of society/the internet, but once being a teenager from a horribly fractured home life that had the misfortune to crush on her English teacher, I can very easily identify with the urge to put something up on a pedestal that can't hurt you, especially when you're in an environment that seems geared to make you hurt regardless of the steps you take in life.
But that doesn't mean to say I don't despair, seeing young women having these idea reinforced as OK in their heads by the outside world. There's no attempts by the responsible adult (Meyer) to offer alternative paths to happiness, to imbue some idea of self esteem, to even present a realistic impression of men in relationships or sexuality. Balanced role models are vital during the teenage years, and you can end up with a really stunted view of the life if you're denied that.
I fully believe that a good proportion of the girls reading these books will go on to find their own thoughts, and will be changed by other external factors, but I equally think a lot of them won't. Feminism is really tarnished in the younger generations, I'm 25 and it took me a good 5 years to get over the bullshit that swirls around society's view of this ideology. There's very little female-positive media out there, very few prominent women standing up and attaching that label to themselves. Everything seems to lean towards tailoring your body (you need large breasts!) and mind (don't nag!) towards attracting the opposite sex, despite the legions of women achieving highly in academic fields and going on to live existences free of such things. I have only read parts of the books, but there seems to be no indication that this exists in Meyer's world, and for a lot of girls stuck in their bedrooms with Jesus on the walls, Meyer's world is their world.
It's really frustrating.
In short, if I ruled the world, I'd keep the books on the shelves, but I'd clone and bundle Jessica Valenti with every unit sold. Balance out the fantasy with a little reality, and you can't go wrong surely?
posted by saturnine at 10:58 AM on November 21, 2009 [5 favorites]
Saturnine-
Sorry, but I have to know what you mean by "shipping" culture.
posted by kittensofthenight at 11:22 AM on November 21, 2009
Sorry, but I have to know what you mean by "shipping" culture.
posted by kittensofthenight at 11:22 AM on November 21, 2009
Wikipedia page for Shipping (fandom) - guess I should have linked a few pages in that sentence.
posted by saturnine at 11:40 AM on November 21, 2009
posted by saturnine at 11:40 AM on November 21, 2009
I miss Buffy. *sniff*
posted by njbradburn at 11:57 AM on November 21, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by njbradburn at 11:57 AM on November 21, 2009 [7 favorites]
I fully believe that a good proportion of the girls reading these books will go on to find their own thoughts,
Yes. And also, when marveling over the sheer number of girls watching and reading this series, I think you can probably assume that a fair percentage of them are doing so in order to participate as much for whatever the series has to offer. Like any fad. If it's all your friends talk about, if you would seem hopelessly out of touch for not knowing about it...you're going to participate too. Especially young teens, which many of these girls seem to be. Add in the media hype which makes participation seem even more mandatory and there you go.
It's also a sad commentary on how few heroines of any stripe are out there for girls to self-identify with. Bella is a cipher, but she is the center of the universe, because everyone wants her/cares about her. Which makes her really attractive to girls starved for any female figures of any importance whatsoever, as opposed to being eye candy in the latest movie aimed at teenage boys, who, where entertainment is concerned, seem to be The Only People That Matter.
posted by emjaybee at 12:06 PM on November 21, 2009 [4 favorites]
Yes. And also, when marveling over the sheer number of girls watching and reading this series, I think you can probably assume that a fair percentage of them are doing so in order to participate as much for whatever the series has to offer. Like any fad. If it's all your friends talk about, if you would seem hopelessly out of touch for not knowing about it...you're going to participate too. Especially young teens, which many of these girls seem to be. Add in the media hype which makes participation seem even more mandatory and there you go.
It's also a sad commentary on how few heroines of any stripe are out there for girls to self-identify with. Bella is a cipher, but she is the center of the universe, because everyone wants her/cares about her. Which makes her really attractive to girls starved for any female figures of any importance whatsoever, as opposed to being eye candy in the latest movie aimed at teenage boys, who, where entertainment is concerned, seem to be The Only People That Matter.
posted by emjaybee at 12:06 PM on November 21, 2009 [4 favorites]
Great post, Saturnine. I've been studying community fandoms lately and of all of the internet rage I've seen in my day, nothing comes close to the drama these [mostly girls] get themselves involved in surrounding the characters.
I can't find the post anymore, but the other day I was reading a thread on a forum where an insider of the canon was providing information on future episodes and helping to get some of the fans' ideas onto it. Everything was fine and dandy, but when the show didn't go accordingly (a character that wasn't supposed to be in an episode *was*), some fans got incredibly upset and started arguing with the insider.
This led to people linking posts to CW higher-ups via email and Twitter in an attempt to out the insider and get them fired. Granted this person was likely very much going against a contract, but man, what a mess, especially when the insider initially understood fans' concerns and was trying to help.
posted by june made him a gemini at 12:45 PM on November 21, 2009
I can't find the post anymore, but the other day I was reading a thread on a forum where an insider of the canon was providing information on future episodes and helping to get some of the fans' ideas onto it. Everything was fine and dandy, but when the show didn't go accordingly (a character that wasn't supposed to be in an episode *was*), some fans got incredibly upset and started arguing with the insider.
This led to people linking posts to CW higher-ups via email and Twitter in an attempt to out the insider and get them fired. Granted this person was likely very much going against a contract, but man, what a mess, especially when the insider initially understood fans' concerns and was trying to help.
posted by june made him a gemini at 12:45 PM on November 21, 2009
Ah, Sys Rq, I'm sorry to be the one who takes the sunshine away from you.
This thread wouldn't be complete without Sparkledammerung, a pic-heavy unveiling of the Mormon influences behind the entire story.
And hey, just this month the Twilight backlash was given some commercial legitimacy.
posted by greenland at 12:55 PM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
This thread wouldn't be complete without Sparkledammerung, a pic-heavy unveiling of the Mormon influences behind the entire story.
And hey, just this month the Twilight backlash was given some commercial legitimacy.
posted by greenland at 12:55 PM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
> I'm not into video editing, so I don't know if Final Cut Pro has a de-emo-ify button. But if it does, it'd help merge Buffy and Edward so much more.
They do, its called Color. I'm serious, if they had the original, uncompressed footage, they could probably de-emofy it pretty well.
posted by mrzarquon at 1:04 PM on November 21, 2009
They do, its called Color. I'm serious, if they had the original, uncompressed footage, they could probably de-emofy it pretty well.
posted by mrzarquon at 1:04 PM on November 21, 2009
Midnight-Sun-the-unrelated-graphic-novel is pretty good.
posted by box at 1:16 PM on November 21, 2009
posted by box at 1:16 PM on November 21, 2009
once being a teenager from a horribly fractured home life that had the misfortune to crush on her English teacher, I can very easily identify with the urge to put something up on a pedestal that can't hurt you, especially when you're in an environment that seems geared to make you hurt regardless of the steps you take in life.Also witness the entire evangelical/pentacostal approach to dating, courtship, and sexuality.
posted by verb at 1:29 PM on November 21, 2009
The blue-green filter on twilight was just an extreme version of typical movie color correction.
posted by empath at 2:24 PM on November 21, 2009
posted by empath at 2:24 PM on November 21, 2009
I'm emailing the twilight remixed to the young Twilight fans in my family. They must learn that Buffy rules!
posted by dabitch at 2:34 PM on November 21, 2009
posted by dabitch at 2:34 PM on November 21, 2009
It's not just girls reading this stuff. A huge percentage of the Twilight audience and fandom are middle-aged women.
I not only miss Buffy, but I miss what seems in retrospect to be a whole female-positive current in popular culture during the 90s. Daria, and riotgrrl and even, to be honest, Lillith Fair. I remember kind of making fun of it at the time, but looking back at it now? A bunch of women wearing regular clothes playing music onstage to huge crowds. I know that there's talk of reviving it in the next year or two, and it will be interesting to see how the idea registers the cultural shift. I'm not sure I can even think of a Daria-level intelligent female character in TV aimed at teenagers/under 25s. I'd love to be proven wrong, however.
posted by jokeefe at 2:44 PM on November 21, 2009 [8 favorites]
I not only miss Buffy, but I miss what seems in retrospect to be a whole female-positive current in popular culture during the 90s. Daria, and riotgrrl and even, to be honest, Lillith Fair. I remember kind of making fun of it at the time, but looking back at it now? A bunch of women wearing regular clothes playing music onstage to huge crowds. I know that there's talk of reviving it in the next year or two, and it will be interesting to see how the idea registers the cultural shift. I'm not sure I can even think of a Daria-level intelligent female character in TV aimed at teenagers/under 25s. I'd love to be proven wrong, however.
posted by jokeefe at 2:44 PM on November 21, 2009 [8 favorites]
I can't find the post anymore, but the other day I was reading a thread on a forum where an insider of the canon was providing information on future episodes
Sorry, which fandom? I don't recognize "CW". But I've seen other tempest in a teapot blowups on Fandom Wank; it's very common. The audience becomes incredibly proprietary over "their" characters and relationships. And it's very much a women's thing, which makes it even more interesting.
posted by jokeefe at 2:49 PM on November 21, 2009
Sorry, which fandom? I don't recognize "CW". But I've seen other tempest in a teapot blowups on Fandom Wank; it's very common. The audience becomes incredibly proprietary over "their" characters and relationships. And it's very much a women's thing, which makes it even more interesting.
posted by jokeefe at 2:49 PM on November 21, 2009
You know I watched the movie the other day and I didn't see its rendition of the Vampire mythos as any more absurd or illogical than any other one I've seen, in film or book.
Just because we're used to flying, blood drinking, light, cross or pointy-stick -killable vampires doesn't make them any less ridiculous.
posted by signal at 2:56 PM on November 21, 2009
Just because we're used to flying, blood drinking, light, cross or pointy-stick -killable vampires doesn't make them any less ridiculous.
posted by signal at 2:56 PM on November 21, 2009
"And hey, just this month the Twilight backlash was given some commercial legitimacy."
Wait, so what percentage of the profits from the Harvard Lampoon book go to fighting Prop 8? That's the best part about this whole thing. Twilight's about reinforcing "traditional" marriage, between a woman and her moody, overbearing and controlling husband. The way God intended.
And all the teenage girls are happy to give their money to support Prop 8 and measures like it. In addition to internalizing the bad morals. Yay!
posted by Eideteker at 3:03 PM on November 21, 2009
Wait, so what percentage of the profits from the Harvard Lampoon book go to fighting Prop 8? That's the best part about this whole thing. Twilight's about reinforcing "traditional" marriage, between a woman and her moody, overbearing and controlling husband. The way God intended.
And all the teenage girls are happy to give their money to support Prop 8 and measures like it. In addition to internalizing the bad morals. Yay!
posted by Eideteker at 3:03 PM on November 21, 2009
Hmm. Here's a pretty telling sentence from the slate article that I think illustrates the misogynistic reaction towards Twlight fans that several people were making in the last post: "Chores, husbands and children go neglected, and the hours that aren't spent reading and rereading the three novels are squandered on forums and fan fiction." For shame that these moms aren't taking care of family and home and squandering their time on the internets!
Having cut my writing teeth on less popular, but fairly similar fandoms (Pern, the X-files), I hate to see these communities derided. I would not have been comfortable in more "serious" writing communities at 13 or 14, but I was incredibly comfortable with the other women and girls in Pern fandom--participation in it had an incredible impact on my writing. Time squandered my butt.
I've been watching True Blood and wondering where Sookie lies on the vampire girlfriend continuum. She's strong in many ways, and her friendship with Tara is admirable, but she waits for her boyfriend to save her. And she's treated like a commodity by the male vampires around her. As Bill tells us over and over again, she's "his"; of course, this doesn't stop Eric from forcing a psychic and sexual connection on her, a concept I found uncomfortable.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:12 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Having cut my writing teeth on less popular, but fairly similar fandoms (Pern, the X-files), I hate to see these communities derided. I would not have been comfortable in more "serious" writing communities at 13 or 14, but I was incredibly comfortable with the other women and girls in Pern fandom--participation in it had an incredible impact on my writing. Time squandered my butt.
I've been watching True Blood and wondering where Sookie lies on the vampire girlfriend continuum. She's strong in many ways, and her friendship with Tara is admirable, but she waits for her boyfriend to save her. And she's treated like a commodity by the male vampires around her. As Bill tells us over and over again, she's "his"; of course, this doesn't stop Eric from forcing a psychic and sexual connection on her, a concept I found uncomfortable.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:12 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I've been watching True Blood and wondering where Sookie lies on the vampire girlfriend continuum.
Whatever part "irritating" falls under, she's there. The True Blood fanbase (which I'm a part of) has been very vocal in their dislike of the Sookie/Bill relationship, and Alan Ball has been very clever in shifting the audience reaction to Bill from the "oh he's so romantic fapfapfap" to the "um, he's actually a little creepy and lame, can he go away now?".
And she's treated like a commodity by the male vampires around her. As Bill tells us over and over again, she's "his"; of course, this doesn't stop Eric from forcing a psychic and sexual connection on her, a concept I found uncomfortable.
*HERE BE SPOILERZ*
There are reasons for this that get addressed later in the storyline (one being that she's not human). Eric is not intended to be anything but a very fuckable monster with no human empathy whatsoever (in the last season he tore a man to pieces, in a dungeon where he kept human prisoners, while getting his hair tinted). Bill has an alternate agenda (hence the possessiveness), and the relationship does not last. There's no romanticism unless people are projecting it themselves.
But really, the show is succeeding on it's own merits outside of the original paperback series. Sookie is pretty much a Mary Sue* for Charlaine Harris, the books themselves are only slightly better than Twilight, and all the skill of the actual show has come from the writing team developing the raw base that Harris created. I haven't read the books (because they're awful) but I'd be placing good money on Alan Ball turning Sookie into more of an independent creation than Harris intended.
*IMO most urban fantasy seems to be written with Mary Sue main characters.
posted by saturnine at 3:58 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Whatever part "irritating" falls under, she's there. The True Blood fanbase (which I'm a part of) has been very vocal in their dislike of the Sookie/Bill relationship, and Alan Ball has been very clever in shifting the audience reaction to Bill from the "oh he's so romantic fapfapfap" to the "um, he's actually a little creepy and lame, can he go away now?".
And she's treated like a commodity by the male vampires around her. As Bill tells us over and over again, she's "his"; of course, this doesn't stop Eric from forcing a psychic and sexual connection on her, a concept I found uncomfortable.
*HERE BE SPOILERZ*
There are reasons for this that get addressed later in the storyline (one being that she's not human). Eric is not intended to be anything but a very fuckable monster with no human empathy whatsoever (in the last season he tore a man to pieces, in a dungeon where he kept human prisoners, while getting his hair tinted). Bill has an alternate agenda (hence the possessiveness), and the relationship does not last. There's no romanticism unless people are projecting it themselves.
But really, the show is succeeding on it's own merits outside of the original paperback series. Sookie is pretty much a Mary Sue* for Charlaine Harris, the books themselves are only slightly better than Twilight, and all the skill of the actual show has come from the writing team developing the raw base that Harris created. I haven't read the books (because they're awful) but I'd be placing good money on Alan Ball turning Sookie into more of an independent creation than Harris intended.
*IMO most urban fantasy seems to be written with Mary Sue main characters.
posted by saturnine at 3:58 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Decimask: "Related: the 30 most disturbing Twilight(-inspired) products on io9, including #26, the sparkling silicone dildo."
Availible here, "Updated by popular request... Yes the The Vamp retains hot and cold temperature. Toss it in the fridge for that authentic experience."
...
"The Vamp is a realistic form dildo based appropriately on our Sire's design but with a deathly pale flesh tone reminiscent of the moon's soft glow."
posted by idiopath at 4:05 PM on November 21, 2009
Availible here, "Updated by popular request... Yes the The Vamp retains hot and cold temperature. Toss it in the fridge for that authentic experience."
...
"The Vamp is a realistic form dildo based appropriately on our Sire's design but with a deathly pale flesh tone reminiscent of the moon's soft glow."
posted by idiopath at 4:05 PM on November 21, 2009
My s.o. had the idea recently to go to all the bookstore chains nearby, find the copies of Codependent No More and move the majority of them to the inevitable Twilight merchandise display. I'm thinking I will do this in as many bookstores as possible.
posted by audacity at 4:20 PM on November 21, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by audacity at 4:20 PM on November 21, 2009 [7 favorites]
I haven't read the books (because they're awful) but I'd be placing good money on Alan Ball turning Sookie into more of an independent creation than Harris intended.
Let's hope so. I've been trying to read the first book--it's rough, in part because it's so close to the first season--and somehow, dialog that seems passable on screen (though it seems to be getting worse in s2; Bill's dialog's become pretty consistently cringe-worthy) is ridiculously stiff in the books.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:35 PM on November 21, 2009
Let's hope so. I've been trying to read the first book--it's rough, in part because it's so close to the first season--and somehow, dialog that seems passable on screen (though it seems to be getting worse in s2; Bill's dialog's become pretty consistently cringe-worthy) is ridiculously stiff in the books.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:35 PM on November 21, 2009
Yeah, when I heard that I wondered how the books got around the fact that even in Washington there are plenty of sunny days. According to Seattle's wikipedia page it's cloudy an average of 226 days, which still leaves 139 sunny days to deal with. And what do the vampires do if it's cloudy when they leave for school but clears up later on?
Their parents pull them out of school to go hiking and camping and stuff, DUH
posted by granted at 5:08 PM on November 21, 2009
Their parents pull them out of school to go hiking and camping and stuff, DUH
posted by granted at 5:08 PM on November 21, 2009
Oh yeah, the Sookie Stackhouse novels are horrible. At least the first one, all I had the stomach to read. Silly romance novel trash, with none of the nuance or colour or exciting silliness of True Blood. Alan Ball is mostly faithful to the source material, but he gives it a whole lot more.
posted by Nelson at 5:23 PM on November 21, 2009
posted by Nelson at 5:23 PM on November 21, 2009
I miss what seems in retrospect to be a whole female-positive current in popular culture during the 90s. Daria, and riotgrrl and even, to be honest, Lillith Fair.
Let me be the first to tell you, then.. Lilith Fair is coming back next summer for an 18 city tour.
posted by hippybear at 5:52 PM on November 21, 2009
Let me be the first to tell you, then.. Lilith Fair is coming back next summer for an 18 city tour.
posted by hippybear at 5:52 PM on November 21, 2009
> I've seen other tempest in a teapot blowups on Fandom Wank; it's very common. The audience becomes incredibly proprietary over "their" characters and relationships. And it's very much a women's thing, which makes it even more interesting.
Counterpoint: the annulment of Spider-Man's marriage to Mary-Jane via Mephisto in Marvel Comics. "Fan" is short for "Fanatic", after all.
posted by Decimask at 5:55 PM on November 21, 2009
Counterpoint: the annulment of Spider-Man's marriage to Mary-Jane via Mephisto in Marvel Comics. "Fan" is short for "Fanatic", after all.
posted by Decimask at 5:55 PM on November 21, 2009
I can't find the post anymore, but the other day I was reading a thread on a forum where an insider of the canon was providing information on future episodes and helping to get some of the fans' ideas onto it.
That sounds fairly unlikely, as the opportunity for lawsuits is huge if you even hint at having taken ideas from the peanut gallery. Still, if you could find the post, I'm always up for a good trainwreck.
posted by Sparx at 6:46 PM on November 21, 2009
I miss what seems in retrospect to be a whole female-positive current in popular culture during the 90s. Daria, and riotgrrl and even, to be honest, Lillith Fair.
Let me be the first to tell you, then.. Lilith Fair is coming back next summer for an 18 city tour.
Please to be reading rest of my comment. :)
posted by jokeefe at 8:04 PM on November 21, 2009
Let me be the first to tell you, then.. Lilith Fair is coming back next summer for an 18 city tour.
Please to be reading rest of my comment. :)
posted by jokeefe at 8:04 PM on November 21, 2009
@idiopath - Did you watch the video where they slowly rotate the thing under a light to show off the sparkles? It's not often I see something on the web and not have any idea how to react.
posted by Decimask at 8:56 PM on November 21, 2009
posted by Decimask at 8:56 PM on November 21, 2009
holy shit -- alan ball is behind True Blood? I need to start watching that show.
This is what I get for not having cable.
posted by empath at 9:06 PM on November 21, 2009
This is what I get for not having cable.
posted by empath at 9:06 PM on November 21, 2009
And hey, just this month the Twilight backlash was given some commercial legitimacy.
It bothers me a little that the Harvard Lampoon is doing for Twilight exactly what they did for The Lord of the Rings.
posted by kenko at 10:38 PM on November 21, 2009
It bothers me a little that the Harvard Lampoon is doing for Twilight exactly what they did for The Lord of the Rings.
posted by kenko at 10:38 PM on November 21, 2009
I love the fact that there's a publication called Bitch Magazine.
Who wants to put up the capital for me to public Total Fucking Asshole Magazine?
posted by Target Practice at 12:36 AM on November 22, 2009
Who wants to put up the capital for me to public Total Fucking Asshole Magazine?
posted by Target Practice at 12:36 AM on November 22, 2009
Agh, publish, not public.
posted by Target Practice at 12:37 AM on November 22, 2009
posted by Target Practice at 12:37 AM on November 22, 2009
Related: the 30 most disturbing Twilight(-inspired) products on io9, including #26, the sparkling silicone dildo.
I'm a little surprised you chose to highlight the dildo and not the frankly fantastic glowering shower curtain.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 8:48 AM on November 22, 2009
I'm a little surprised you chose to highlight the dildo and not the frankly fantastic glowering shower curtain.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 8:48 AM on November 22, 2009
ArmyOfKittens: I'm a little surprised you chose to highlight the dildo and not the frankly fantastic glowering shower curtain.
I was debating highlighting the torn-open felt uterus with fetus, but I thought calling out the NSFW one was courteous.
posted by Decimask at 8:56 AM on November 22, 2009
I was debating highlighting the torn-open felt uterus with fetus, but I thought calling out the NSFW one was courteous.
posted by Decimask at 8:56 AM on November 22, 2009
Also, the shower curtain would be infinitely cooler if the "Edward" pattern was heat-activated.
posted by Decimask at 8:59 AM on November 22, 2009
posted by Decimask at 8:59 AM on November 22, 2009
How would you spell "Stephen-ee Mee-yer"?
Stephanie.
posted by incessant at 9:54 AM on November 22, 2009
Stephanie.
posted by incessant at 9:54 AM on November 22, 2009
Who wants to put up the capital for me to public Total Fucking Asshole Magazine?
I think Maxim or FHM or Details might have that niche already.
posted by jfwlucy at 10:13 AM on November 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think Maxim or FHM or Details might have that niche already.
posted by jfwlucy at 10:13 AM on November 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
I was snarking and making fun of Twilight, and then I saw New Moon and that hot Taylor Lautner guy's amazing physique and that's all I need=) Also, girls make the best stalkers anyway.
posted by anniecat at 4:27 PM on November 22, 2009
posted by anniecat at 4:27 PM on November 22, 2009
dortmunder, I suspect the guy hangs out around a high school for the same reason other older guys hang out around them: teen girls, ripe for the picking!
That's what I love about these High School girls man. I get older, they stay the same age. Yes they do. Yes they do.
Clearly Edward needs an awesome 70s 'stache.
posted by formless at 7:39 PM on November 22, 2009
That's what I love about these High School girls man. I get older, they stay the same age. Yes they do. Yes they do.
Clearly Edward needs an awesome 70s 'stache.
posted by formless at 7:39 PM on November 22, 2009
The Rifftrax version is the best way to watch Twilight.
posted by Tenuki at 10:18 PM on November 22, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Tenuki at 10:18 PM on November 22, 2009 [3 favorites]
I LOLed when I saw that one can get a sparkley dildo, yet the message I clearly saw in the movie, Twilight*, was anti-sex. And a kind of creepy, stalkerish kind of 'romance'.
*I had no idea, I just knew a vampire movie had come out in the theater. Boyfriend could barely hide his giggles between his half-hearted attempts to quiet me down - apparently he pretends he doesn't like getting kicked out of movie theaters.
posted by _paegan_ at 10:21 PM on November 22, 2009
*I had no idea, I just knew a vampire movie had come out in the theater. Boyfriend could barely hide his giggles between his half-hearted attempts to quiet me down - apparently he pretends he doesn't like getting kicked out of movie theaters.
posted by _paegan_ at 10:21 PM on November 22, 2009
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Editor: So, Stephenie, I got your manuscript.
Stephenie: what did u think isn’t it liek ttlly romantic
Editor: Right. Well. There’s 450 pages of… caressing and whispering devotion, but no actual conflict. You know that novels need that, right?
Stephenie: what do u mean hes dangrous and might eat her. conflict
Editor: …Yeah. So why don’t you try something with other vampires? Maybe have them try to eat her?
Stephenie: o like haev evil vmapires? ok I will rite that
This is one of the posts where she breaks down exactly how Stephenie Meyer has (inadvertently) turned this into a teen drama about a messed-up, abusive relationship.
I'm pretty sure I got the Vampirely link from somewhere on MeFi, but I don't know where.
posted by specialagentwebb at 5:50 AM on November 21, 2009 [14 favorites]