We are a marriage preservation service

November 21, 2009 10:39 AM

The Ashley Madison agency: Adultery business now open for gays!

Some people are not happy (NSFliberals)
Some are giddy
Many are puzzled

More opinions and amusing commercials on their media page.

posted by Potomac Avenue (68 comments total)

There's no "marital pain" if you are discreet. Grow up, America.
posted by Zambrano at 10:51 AM on November 21, 2009

There's no "marital pain" if you are discreet. Grow up, America.

Yeah, STD's are totally painless. Or maybe you meant that sex is somehow safer so long as it's discreet, or something. Related.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:54 AM on November 21, 2009

Yuck, I kind of prefer the OnlineBootyCall TV ads to this smarmy trash. Though on the other hand anything that makes Elisabeth Hasselbeck frown is a plus in my book.
posted by blucevalo at 10:56 AM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

Dammit! Can anyone find a cached copy of that blog somewhere?
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:56 AM on November 21, 2009

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the sex won't destroy you. Actually, the sex will probably be great. The affair won't destroy you. It'll probably be great fun and excitement!

The lies, however, will destroy you. Lies are the foundation of misery. Lies are corrosive acid to the human conscience. Some people are capable of tremendous lying throughout their lives without feeling much regret or remorse. Stay away from those people.

If your marriage is over, at least have the honesty to admit that it's over before you commit yourself to living in the midst of an ever-tightening web of lies. I, personally, would be eighty bajillion times more offended, hurt and frightened if my partner decided to fuck around behind my back while continuing the pantomime of a relationship rather than announcing to my face "Sorry, this isn't working out. I need something else."

Moving on I can deal with. The death of a relationship I can deal with. Lies I cannot -- because lies do something worse than death: lies destroy the very fabric of reality in which you live. Breakups hurt -- lies kill. Breakup before you lie.
posted by Avenger at 11:01 AM on November 21, 2009 [71 favorites]

From the Time article:
"The Toronto-based site...enjoyed another big boost this week, following Father's Day, when CEO Noel Biderman says men often feel underappreciated."

Er, what? You're going to set up a profile on a cheating website after Father's Day? That squicks me right out.

As for the adultery for gay people, too, well I think that Biderman again is a little worrying: "Noel Biderman, Ashley Madison’s CEO (married, two kids), says that his service provides a necessary sexual outlet for gay men and women who are trapped within the confines of traditional marriage." Hmm.
posted by librarylis at 11:02 AM on November 21, 2009

I heard an ad for this agency on the radio last week. I swore up and down that it had to be a pitch perfect parody. The actual selling lines were something akin to "...so there's no more passion in your marriage, let us help you find passion with someone in a like minded position...". Mind blowing that it's actually real. Mind blowing and so, so sad.
posted by cavalier at 11:22 AM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]

Re: The conservative response: This is not a case of homosexuality destroying marriage. This is about society promoting marriages built on weak foundations.

If gay people are scared or pressured into straight marriages (either through direct encouragement from friends and family or societal pressure in general), those marriages are doomed to be monotonous and lacking passion, or be riddled with affairs. If gay people could marry people they truly are attracted to, and if it became acceptable to come out everywhere in the country (including the deep south), gay affairs would not be the assault on marriage you're so upset about. It's like building a house on quicksand and then blaming the sinking on gravity.
posted by mccarty.tim at 11:24 AM on November 21, 2009 [8 favorites]

Breakup before you lie.

Oh, sure... NOW you tell me.
posted by Balisong at 11:25 AM on November 21, 2009

(never adultered.)
posted by Balisong at 11:26 AM on November 21, 2009

In terms of other depressing services, what if there were a dating-style website, where young adults (say 18-35) who are not on good terms with their parents but who feel the need for an adult role model could arrange meetups with lonely older adults (50 and up) to develop new father/mother figures? If it goes well, you can end up being "adopted" by the old people you've befriended. (I'd actually prefer that to MeDating, to be honest, if only to see the profiles for such a thing)

I'd also like a website that lets you buy, sell, and trade identities. If your identity can be stolen, why can't you sell it for some extra cash? And there's probably some unhappy person leading your dream life RIGHT NOW. Imagine buying a disenfranchised astronaut's identity.
posted by mccarty.tim at 11:29 AM on November 21, 2009 [12 favorites]

> I, personally, would be eighty bajillion times more offended, hurt and frightened if my partner decided to fuck around behind my back while continuing the pantomime of a relationship rather than announcing to my face "Sorry, this isn't working out. I need something else."

My wife (girlfriend at the time) and I had a conversation after seeing the movie Unfaithful about whether it would be worse to find out that your partner a) had a one-night stand (or two, or three, etc.) or b) had an extended affair with one person (both, obviously, would be bad). My take on it was that the extended affair would be worse because your partner would presumably have real feelings for the other person s/he was carrying on with (as opposed to just wanting a shag with someone different), while she maintained that the one-nighters would be worse because your partner would be signalling that s/he placed so little value on your relationship that s/he was willing to risk it on a meaningless sexual encounter.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:33 AM on November 21, 2009

Dammit! Can anyone find a cached copy of that blog somewhere?

1
2
posted by generalist at 11:40 AM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

"The Toronto-based site...enjoyed another big boost this week, following Father's Day, when CEO Noel Biderman says men often feel underappreciated."

This is indicative of the lack of responsibility people have regarding their actions. I'm sure that anyone who sets up a profile on this site had problems long before Father's Day. But, rather than doing the right thing and filing for divorce, he wants to scurry about with an equally despicable woman.

It disgusts and saddens me to read about this site.
posted by reenum at 11:50 AM on November 21, 2009

This was anticipated by Grand Theft Auto 3 back in 2001: "Fernando's New Beginnings."
posted by grobstein at 12:14 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

I haven't heard one of the radio ads for this service for quite awhile. I used to angrily change channels when I heard one because I was so revolted. I could have a lot more compassion for someone who is lonely and unhappy in their relationship and just stumbles upon something compelling with a friend, a neighbour, a co-worker. Deliberately seeking it out is another matter, and as for the people who are actually making money facilitating it...!
posted by orange swan at 12:18 PM on November 21, 2009

There's no "marital pain" if you are discreet. Grow up, America.

The eternal illusion--that karma does not exist. The thing about lies is that karma spills off of them left and right. It never is the act that gives it away, its the coverup. Every lie you must tell requires other lies to make the story line up. Each lie another ripple that spreads outward to touch things around it--and some of those ripples will touch the person you are trying to decieve. You cannot avoid the ultimate result of these lies and the twists and turns they will put you through. Your very efforts to twist away from the lies are what gives you away. If Bill Clinton couldn't keep his secrets, how could you? You cannot.

Eventually, if they want to know, they will become aware. If they have self-respect, they will leave you.

I have no problem with polygamy--that's an honest approach to the problem of wanting unlimited sexual opportunity, with the desire to limit the sexual reproduction of those we desire to only us. Although it is not for me, it is a logical lifestyle choice.

But lying to someone is acting with contempt for them. It is attempting to control their sexuality without actually going through with your part of the agreement. It is betrayal.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:20 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

We are all socialists, right? And atheists? (yes tongue and cheek a bit)

SO WHY THE HECK CAN'T WE DECONSTRUCT MARRIAGE ALREADY? Why can't we educate our kids that openness in relationships is OK, and how to do it, same as when we teach them how to put the condom on the banana in health class?

Marriage was designed to support the present system that we are all trying to change. So what is there for those of us with supposedly progressive partners who won't even consider (do the hard work of seriously considering, rather than rejecting out of hand) the step of openness?

btw i do think lying is bad in all circumstances... right now i do a lot of elaborate self calming exercises to deal with this trapped feeling I have, as my 30s slip away..
posted by By The Grace of God at 12:49 PM on November 21, 2009 [5 favorites]

if they want to know

I think this is the operative phrase. More people than admit it don't want to know.
posted by Rubbstone at 12:50 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

There's no "marital pain" if you are discreet. Grow up, America.

Can someone start a MetaTalk about why we need a "Has Detractors" button?
posted by jefficator at 1:01 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

Ironmouth I disagree only with one of your points: that lies or cheating will inevitably be discovered. Is there any evidence that this is true? In my world-view a much larger % of infidelity is never uncovered, whether the couple breaks up eventually or not.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:21 PM on November 21, 2009

http://xkcd.com/592/
posted by erniepan at 1:37 PM on November 21, 2009 [3 favorites]

It saddens me greatly to read this post. My hope is that I will live to see every person, regardless of sexual orientation, able to marry and gain the full legal benefits of that formal declaration of fidelity. I already feel upset about the popularity of this website which is devoted to making infidelity easy, and it just adds another layer of upset to think of it being marketed as a way for people who are gay to stay in the closet.

I would just add what is obvious to most of us: a key to a committed and loving relationship is well founded trust.
posted by bearwife at 2:16 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

This is the most annoying thing about Ashley Madison, imo.
posted by stifford at 2:27 PM on November 21, 2009

“We’ve got the Parent Television Council saying these ads are reprehensible,” says Biderman of the Web site’s conservative backlash. “There’s this huge fear to have any sort of conversation about sex.”

That is just so disingenuous I grind my teeth with annoyance. Yes, Noel Biderman. People who take issue with your creepy, creepy ads just have their uptight no-fun panties in a wad because they're afraid to have a "conversation about sex." I would like to smite AshleyMadison off the face of the earth for that statement alone.
posted by Neofelis at 2:36 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

A comment on this article (which I thought was very well done)

Ashleysmadatmen.com or whatever it's called has a right to exist, distasteful as it may be for many of us. Like a poisonous serpent, we must give it a wide berth and avoid it. Not all online is good and I wonder if Al Gore had this in mind when he invented the internet....
posted by kylej at 2:39 PM on November 21, 2009

I thought that the site to cheat on your wife with another man was Craigslist. Or Manhunt. Or any gay-oriented hookup site, because it seems that about 50-75% of the ads are from "married" guys who are mostly "straight".
posted by xingcat at 3:18 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

kathrineg: "not one, but two fields for cock size"

Size of rooster: ________
Size of "other rooster": __________
posted by idiopath at 3:39 PM on November 21, 2009 [6 favorites]

I thought that the site to cheat on your wife with another man was Craigslist. Or Manhunt.

Oh great, NOW you tell me...
posted by hamida2242 at 3:51 PM on November 21, 2009

There's no "marital pain" if you are discreet. Grow up, America.

You're an idiot and I hope you end up having to fuck yourself because no one else will.
posted by FunkyHelix at 4:16 PM on November 21, 2009

I have no problem with polygamy--that's an honest approach to the problem of wanting unlimited sexual opportunity, with the desire to limit the sexual reproduction of those we desire to only us. Although it is not for me, it is a logical lifestyle choice.

The final clause of your first sentence makes it clear you do indeed mean polygamy and not polyamory. Polygamy is a problem to me because of the implicit sexism in it, and the sense that when it occurs the women are usually coerced. I suppose if the women involved fully realized they had other options and freely chose it, I would accept it. I would reserve the same raised-eyebrow that goes to everyone remaining in seemingly unhealthy relationships, but I would accept it. Big Love is just a TV show, however, and I don't know of any examples of this happening in the real world.

Oh yeah, polyamory on the other hand is the bee's knees. Although it is not for me, it is a logical lifestyle choice.
posted by Bokononist at 4:22 PM on November 21, 2009

Adultery business now open for gays

Don't you have to be able to get married before you can commit adultery?
posted by jonmc at 4:30 PM on November 21, 2009

jonmc: "Don't you have to be able to get married before you can commit adultery?"

Gays can be married, as long as it is to someone of the opposite sex.
posted by idiopath at 4:36 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

Probably should have worded that "now does same-sex matches!"
posted by The Devil Tesla at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2009

Gays can be married, as long as it is to someone of the opposite sex.

Is this site not hosted from Toronto?
posted by kittyprecious at 5:31 PM on November 21, 2009

Hello, self-righteous mefites.

Are you aware that in some states you can't legally be divorced without being separated for a period of time? Sometimes quite a long period? Are you also aware that any open dating during this time can be used against you in court?

Please continue with the condemnation. Thanks.
posted by bh at 5:33 PM on November 21, 2009

teach them how to put the condom on the banana in health class?

I think to prepare students for the real world, we should be realistic. I advocate putting the condom on a gherkin.
posted by maxwelton at 5:43 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

Are you aware that in some states you can't legally be divorced without being separated for a period of time? Sometimes quite a long period? Are you also aware that any open dating during this time can be used against you in court?

Are you seriously suggesting that this is a situation anybody here would be upset with someone for sneaking around in? Or do you just feel like being snotty and self-righteous?
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:05 PM on November 21, 2009

The final clause of your first sentence makes it clear you do indeed mean polygamy and not polyamory. Polygamy is a problem to me because of the implicit sexism in it

No, you're confused. Polygamy just means multiple marriage. One woman, multiple men is Polygyny, and one woman multiple men is Polyandry
posted by delmoi at 6:18 PM on November 21, 2009

delmoi: "No, you're confused. Polygamy just means multiple marriage. One woman, multiple men is Polygyny, and one woman multiple men is Polyandry"

Maybe to a pedant. A vast majority of the people who do "polygyny" and speak English call it polygamy. Polygamy as practiced tends to be a patriarchal institution. Though there are places that do group marriage in a non-patriarchal manner (like Ganas in New York City), they tend strongly to use the term group marriage instead of polygamy, to avoid the sexist overtones of the latter.
posted by idiopath at 6:31 PM on November 21, 2009

Are you seriously suggesting that this is a situation anybody here would be upset with someone for sneaking around in? Or do you just feel like being snotty and self-righteous?

No, I am just annoyed that a number of people here are making the assumption that using a service like this means you are dishonest. The world isn't black and white.
posted by bh at 6:35 PM on November 21, 2009

BH, I still don't get why you'd specifically want a site like Ashley Madison. If your current spouse is estranged and separated from you, couldn't you date with impunity durring this period? It's not really an affair in spirit, so why not just use a regular site like PlentyOfFish or OkayCupid?

As for the argument in court, would it really count against you if you made it clear that it happened after you decided to move out and get the divorce once it were legal?

I think the fact remains that AM's core demographic seems to be people unhappy in their marriage but too conflict-averse to honestly admit that they need a divorce or the freedom to date outside their marriage. It may be scary, or disruptive, but it'll save you and your partner a lot of hardship.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:28 PM on November 21, 2009

The site's pitch is that they are for people who just want a little strange and that what your spouse doesntknow can't hurt her i mean them. Still trying to understand the objection to its existence by folks who arent religious conservatives.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:48 PM on November 21, 2009

I don't have to believe in monogamy to believe that lying to someone you're in a committed relationship with is a fucking horrible thing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:23 PM on November 21, 2009 [6 favorites]

In a context where such a relationship wouldn't be a betrayal, like the pre-divorce separation bh mentions, that's one thing. But this site appears to in general be urging people to betray their spouses and the agreements implicit in a standard marriage, while marketing to people who are in standard marriages. (As opposed to people who are swingers or people who practice polyamory.) I'm an atheist, I'm all for every sort of freaky sex and outré relationship there is out there, but it makes perfect sense to me to find objectionable a commercial project that is based on encouraging people to betray each other.
posted by XMLicious at 8:30 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

I don't have to believe in monogamy to believe that lying to someone you're in a committed relationship with is a fucking horrible thing.

I dunno. I came home early from work one day and found my best friend since highschool making waves on my waterbed with the mother of my child.

After that.... Well, I just can't be hurt anymore. What doesn't kill you can make you stronger and all that. It sucked at the time, but it's been real liberating since.

I get that maybe it's weird to be this way - but those two did me a huge favor right then.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:38 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

That sounds more like numbness than strength to me. Then again, *shrug*
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:49 PM on November 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

If your current spouse is estranged and separated from you, couldn't you date with impunity durring this period?

Don't discount that some such people go back to said spouses. I was the dated-with, he went back to his spouse. The divorce was at a stage where he was "just waiting for the paperwork to sign" or some such. So don't count it dead until it really is dead.
posted by marble at 9:32 PM on November 21, 2009

Sorry on the polagmy thing. . .typing fast.

I can see no need to use Ashley Madison if you are separated. Just date anyone and keep it from the lawyers--except that's bad advice. Just keep it in your pants until it blows over.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:56 PM on November 21, 2009

What doesn't kill you can make you stronger...

'cept for tuberculosis...


sorry sorry, it's just I've found the whole "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" line a load of tripe for a long time, I do notice you've added a "can" so I'm prepared to accept that qualifier.
posted by edgeways at 10:26 PM on November 21, 2009

That sounds more like numbness than strength to me. Then again, *shrug*

Nope. Just that there are worse things in life.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:49 PM on November 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

Screenshots and prints of this site are a big part of my sister's divorce proceeding. I think they have every right to create it. As well as I think I have the right to tell them they're douchebags. And thanks for helping my family "git er done" so to speak.
posted by MarvinTheCat at 1:11 AM on November 22, 2009

I always found the radio commercials for this site to be bordering on the surreal. I would think to myself, "Is this for real, or is it some sort of elaborate hoax? Is it even legal to advertise a service like this? And why the hell is it called Ashley Madison?"

And more to the point, why did I just click on the link for their website while at work?
posted by Target Practice at 2:45 AM on November 22, 2009

Are you also aware that any open dating during this time can be used against you in court?

What court? Where? Almost every state has a wait period between filing for dissolution and the decree, because people do change their minds, but it isn't eons long. And I don't know of any state that has fault-based divorce. Adultery is a moral wrong, but it is inadmissible and irrelevant these days. It's been that way since, like, the 1970s.

Also, it is simply disingenuous to suggest that Ashley Madison is aimed at people who are waiting for their divorce to come through. The founder and the ads and the site make it crystal clear that the target audience is people currently married and living with a spouse, so that customers can can have their marriage and their nooky too.
posted by bearwife at 2:45 AM on November 22, 2009

BH, I still don't get why you'd specifically want a site like Ashley Madison. If your current spouse is estranged and separated from you, couldn't you date with impunity durring this period? It's not really an affair in spirit, so why not just use a regular site like PlentyOfFish or OkayCupid?

Adultery is a moral wrong, but it is inadmissible and irrelevant these days. It's been that way since, like, the 1970s.

Personally, I have no interest in a site like Ashley Madison. But I am in Virginia, where the laws are archaic, and there is a one year waiting period, and no, I can't just date. So I am glad that sites like that exist.
posted by bh at 8:24 AM on November 22, 2009

bh, I still don't understand why you'd need a special website catering to adultery. Why couldn't you just date like a normal person and be discreet about it? I also understand the backwards adultery laws, as I live in South Carolina, but anyone I know who was in the middle of their required separation period was just quiet about the dating.
posted by chiababe at 8:39 AM on November 22, 2009

Wouldn't it suck if you set up an anonymous Adultery date through that site — filling out all sorts of kinky requirements for your match — and you showed up at some hotel bar, all hot, and the date sitting there was your wife.

Wait. SITCOM HIT!
posted by tkchrist at 11:29 AM on November 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

The way to avoid that is to note in your profile that you despise piña coladas.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:04 PM on November 22, 2009 [4 favorites]

And I don't know of any state that has fault-based divorce. Adultery is a moral wrong, but it is inadmissible and irrelevant these days. It's been that way since, like, the 1970s.

Wrong. Fault-based divorce is alive and well.
posted by jayder at 9:11 PM on November 22, 2009

Wouldn't it suck if you set up an anonymous Adultery date through that site — filling out all sorts of kinky requirements for your match — and you showed up at some hotel bar, all hot, and the date sitting there was your wife.

Wait. SITCOM HIT!

Actually, it was a top 40 hit first.
posted by gern at 11:25 PM on November 22, 2009

Most US state are no fault. This change did happen in the 1970s. And in those few that still are fault based, this is rarely a predicate for custody, maintenance or property division. Here are some cites.

As I said, the idea that there is a need for Ashley Madison for people awaiting divorce doesn't seem based on legal constraints. I would bet huge amounts of money that the state residence of the site's membership has nothing to do with the availability of no fault divorce or waiting period for decrees.
posted by bearwife at 11:58 PM on November 22, 2009

Er, what? You're going to set up a profile on a cheating website after Father's Day? That squicks me right out.

Sounds analagous to suicides jumping around Christmas; if you're hearing a bunch of stuff about other people's wonderful family life (either manufactured accounts via advertising or real ones through workmates et al), well, you've got an extra shove to try to escape to the fantasy land of the affair.

And atheists? SO WHY THE HECK CAN'T WE DECONSTRUCT MARRIAGE ALREADY?

What makes you think atheists don't like monogamous relationships?

(And MeFi is the most anti-atheist site I visit on a regular basis. I guess your perspective on these things depend on how much special pleading religion gets in your culture.)

Polygamy as practiced tends to be a patriarchal institution.

This is historically true of marriage. I see no reason to let a bunch of dickheads ruin a perfectly good label.
posted by rodgerd at 1:32 AM on November 23, 2009

That's the website my dad's best friend's wife used to find the man she cheated on him with. True story.

She has her very own house now.
posted by TomMelee at 6:10 AM on November 23, 2009

rodgerd: "This is historically true of marriage. I see no reason to let a bunch of dickheads ruin a perfectly good label."

I figure the people who actually try to do a non-sexist group marriage should be the ones most qualified to pick a term, and they don't like the term polygamy.
posted by idiopath at 7:18 AM on November 23, 2009

Wouldn't it suck if you set up an anonymous Adultery date through that site — filling out all sorts of kinky requirements for your match — and you showed up at some hotel bar, all hot, and the date sitting there was your wife.


Do you like Pina Coladas?
posted by banshee at 1:45 PM on November 23, 2009

The question, is why do progressive people unquestioningly like monogamy? Society's set up for it, and it's for reasons, and they aren't necessarily pro-people reasons. So, progressive monogamists, what are your reasons?
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:27 PM on November 23, 2009

I don't think that either monogamists or polyamorists or whatever need to offer justifications.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:08 AM on November 28, 2009

The question, is why do progressive people unquestioningly like monogamy? Society's set up for it, and it's for reasons, and they aren't necessarily pro-people reasons. So, progressive monogamists, what are your reasons?

There's a strong case that monogamy is egalitarian.
posted by grobstein at 12:39 PM on December 10, 2009