Top 5 Reasons Porn-for-Profit Is Dying
January 11, 2010 9:58 AM Subscribe
What a weird article. I imagine the reality is that no one under 35 pays for porn -- that everyone interested in a quick porn viewing can find something, somewhere that will fill the void without resorting to a DVD or putting your credit card details into a dodgy looking black and pink website. The porn industry needs to think of ways they can be better than short free video clips or random free nude photos on Flickr.
All the Sasha Grey love in the piece baffles me as well -- I was unimpressed by her performance in The Girlfriend Experience and when I saw on IMDB she was some big porn star a couple minutes of googling and I was watching free copies of her work. It was pretty much the same as her film debut: emotionless and boring stuff.
If that is the penultimate the industry has to offer, they're in bigger trouble than they even know.
posted by mathowie at 10:11 AM on January 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
All the Sasha Grey love in the piece baffles me as well -- I was unimpressed by her performance in The Girlfriend Experience and when I saw on IMDB she was some big porn star a couple minutes of googling and I was watching free copies of her work. It was pretty much the same as her film debut: emotionless and boring stuff.
If that is the penultimate the industry has to offer, they're in bigger trouble than they even know.
posted by mathowie at 10:11 AM on January 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
Another reason: distribution is killing filmakers.
For example, an adult movie titled ‘Desperate Housewives’ attracted around 86,000 views over a two-month period on a US cable network; the cable operator generated $1.2m from this, with the producer, Sex 7, receiving just $7,000.
I have to take this moment to say that one of the business opportunities producers are exploring are moantones - yes, using the moans and groans from adult actors. The youth of today, eh?
Which also brings me onto a fantastic old story about a British man who called a sex line and susbsequently complained to trading standards. After dialling a premium 0891 number from an advertisement entitled "Hear Me Moan" the caller was played a tape of a woman nagging her husband for failing to do jobs around the house. Consumer watchdogs in Dorset refused to look into the complaint, saying: "He got what he deserved."
posted by MuffinMan at 10:12 AM on January 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
For example, an adult movie titled ‘Desperate Housewives’ attracted around 86,000 views over a two-month period on a US cable network; the cable operator generated $1.2m from this, with the producer, Sex 7, receiving just $7,000.
I have to take this moment to say that one of the business opportunities producers are exploring are moantones - yes, using the moans and groans from adult actors. The youth of today, eh?
Which also brings me onto a fantastic old story about a British man who called a sex line and susbsequently complained to trading standards. After dialling a premium 0891 number from an advertisement entitled "Hear Me Moan" the caller was played a tape of a woman nagging her husband for failing to do jobs around the house. Consumer watchdogs in Dorset refused to look into the complaint, saying: "He got what he deserved."
posted by MuffinMan at 10:12 AM on January 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
I don't get why porn isn't evergreen content. I mean, how much variety is there in most videos? Photosets from the 80's look a tad dated if they really blew out their hair to mythic proportions, but I mean, a Playboy from '82 is pretty much the same as one from last month. If they simply stopped making new porn would anyone except the heavily calloused die-hards notice?
posted by GuyZero at 10:20 AM on January 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 10:20 AM on January 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
"Moantones", or projects like it, have been around for awhile, now. At least a decade, maybe more. My SO's sister was hired to do voice work for one of the startups that got into this biz.
We should probably take any numbers the industry published about how much money they used to make. There are indications that their business was highly inflated, and depended on a lot of pure guesswork and double-counting various sales.
Honestly, I'm not sure the porn business ever had much of a life in a post-video, internet world. Casual consumers of the stuff can download all they want (legally) if they spend a few minutes searching, and those with larger appetites have bittorrent.
Those singles and couples that want to watch porn on the TV can subscribe or go to the video store (assuming their local laws allow it.) It is this last market that might be drying up fastest, and was never that lucrative anyway.
posted by clvrmnky at 10:22 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
We should probably take any numbers the industry published about how much money they used to make. There are indications that their business was highly inflated, and depended on a lot of pure guesswork and double-counting various sales.
Honestly, I'm not sure the porn business ever had much of a life in a post-video, internet world. Casual consumers of the stuff can download all they want (legally) if they spend a few minutes searching, and those with larger appetites have bittorrent.
Those singles and couples that want to watch porn on the TV can subscribe or go to the video store (assuming their local laws allow it.) It is this last market that might be drying up fastest, and was never that lucrative anyway.
posted by clvrmnky at 10:22 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think if they could find a more anonymous method of getting paid than credit cards, they might do better. As it is, Pastor Starling may not want a digital record being made of his 100-dollar-a-month furry porn habit.
GuyZero - seems the primary difference between 'old' porn and 'new' porn is the amount of hair (both on the actor's scalps and genitalia).
posted by Pragmatica at 10:24 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
GuyZero - seems the primary difference between 'old' porn and 'new' porn is the amount of hair (both on the actor's scalps and genitalia).
posted by Pragmatica at 10:24 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
s/they used to make/they used to make with a grain of salt/
posted by clvrmnky at 10:25 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by clvrmnky at 10:25 AM on January 11, 2010
Yes, but given that between the 70's an now we seem to have filed with every conceivable amount of hair and probably every possible situation that can be considered morally acceptable (i.e. the world need a lot less stuff with minors and animals, not more) we've pretty much done it all.
At the risk of being that guy who said everything had been invented, I think we've filmed every possible sexual configuration.
and slowly overhead, the stars were going out.
posted by GuyZero at 10:27 AM on January 11, 2010 [19 favorites]
At the risk of being that guy who said everything had been invented, I think we've filmed every possible sexual configuration.
and slowly overhead, the stars were going out.
posted by GuyZero at 10:27 AM on January 11, 2010 [19 favorites]
Fast Company says that the porn industry is trying to get out in front on the much-ballyhooed advent of 3DTV, which ought to help make up some of the revenue being lost to the pirates and "tube" sites.
posted by briank at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by briank at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2010
mathowie: I've never been a huge Grey fan either — I like her in a scene or two, which isn't much — but I've been told by friends into much kinkier stuff that she's "brilliant" when it comes to rougher, dirtier stuff. I'm not enough of a porn enthusiast to know the difference between good and bad porn, but people with a passion for this see something special in her. (If any such devotee is on MeFi, I'd love to hear what about her has turned her into such a megastar.)
posted by Rory Marinich at 10:29 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by Rory Marinich at 10:29 AM on January 11, 2010
And.... the stars come back on.
posted by GuyZero at 10:29 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 10:29 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm not enough of a porn enthusiast to know the difference between good and bad porn
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:32 AM on January 11, 2010 [10 favorites]
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:32 AM on January 11, 2010 [10 favorites]
If that is the penultimate the industry has to offer, they're in bigger trouble than they even know.
Matt, tell me I didn't see you using "penultimate" incorrectly. (Unless it was a joke--peen-ultimate?)
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:33 AM on January 11, 2010 [8 favorites]
Matt, tell me I didn't see you using "penultimate" incorrectly. (Unless it was a joke--peen-ultimate?)
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:33 AM on January 11, 2010 [8 favorites]
> Which also brings me onto a fantastic old story about a British man who called a sex line...
Heh. Reminds me of the bit in Eureka Street where one of the characters gets rich, starting with a "giant dildo refund" semi-scam.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:35 AM on January 11, 2010
Heh. Reminds me of the bit in Eureka Street where one of the characters gets rich, starting with a "giant dildo refund" semi-scam.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:35 AM on January 11, 2010
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good.
Until you get to the pizza that somebody has urinated on.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:43 AM on January 11, 2010 [27 favorites]
Until you get to the pizza that somebody has urinated on.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:43 AM on January 11, 2010 [27 favorites]
Sasha Grey is Bobbi Starr, but she'll do in a pinch.
posted by Max Power at 10:43 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by Max Power at 10:43 AM on January 11, 2010
Fast Company says that the porn industry is trying to get out in front on the much-ballyhooed advent of 3DTV, which ought to help make up some of the revenue being lost to the pirates and "tube" sites.
I've never wanted to safeword a mental image before. 3D porn? "It's coming right for us!"
posted by DigDoug at 10:49 AM on January 11, 2010
I've never wanted to safeword a mental image before. 3D porn? "It's coming right for us!"
posted by DigDoug at 10:49 AM on January 11, 2010
Reason #6: Me.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:49 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:49 AM on January 11, 2010
I knew a guy (friend of a friend) who owned a small chain of adult video shops in the St. Louis area. My friend designed some very early video rental software and this person started out as a client and eventually became his friend, which is how I met him. He was quite a character -- very cynical, very funny, and surprisingly nice. I asked him once how he managed to stay afloat with all of the free porn out in the wild and he said his best business was from guys in their mid-40's and up who weren't all that computer savvy and/or wanted to pay cash for their porn. Which isn't exactly a surprise, I suppose. Last I heard he had closed all but a couple of his stores, probably for the reasons cited in the article; it's really hard to compete with "free".
posted by mosk at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by mosk at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2010
Reason #6: Me.
Did you recently get into porn or something? Zing!
Reason #7 - The Economy is down and people are suddenly remembering that there are tons of real life naughty parts out there to be groped, oggled, fondled, poked, and licked FOR FREE!
posted by Pollomacho at 10:54 AM on January 11, 2010
Did you recently get into porn or something? Zing!
Reason #7 - The Economy is down and people are suddenly remembering that there are tons of real life naughty parts out there to be groped, oggled, fondled, poked, and licked FOR FREE!
posted by Pollomacho at 10:54 AM on January 11, 2010
A lot of typos in this thread so far. Wonder what folks might be doing that would cause that.
posted by Riki tiki at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Riki tiki at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good.
After a few decades on your planet consuming a variety of your fast-food items, I can say with conviction that there is such a thing as bad pizza that is not pretty good. I'm reasonably sure I have received damp cardboard tarted up with tomato-ish sauce and Food-like Brand ToppingsTM that was called pizza on more than one occasion.
It was not very good at all.
Similarly, after a few decades lusting after your women (real or otherwise) I can also say that there is such a thing as bad pornography.
Now, back to my orbiting observation station. Continue to pretend like no one is watching.
posted by clvrmnky at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
After a few decades on your planet consuming a variety of your fast-food items, I can say with conviction that there is such a thing as bad pizza that is not pretty good. I'm reasonably sure I have received damp cardboard tarted up with tomato-ish sauce and Food-like Brand ToppingsTM that was called pizza on more than one occasion.
It was not very good at all.
Similarly, after a few decades lusting after your women (real or otherwise) I can also say that there is such a thing as bad pornography.
Now, back to my orbiting observation station. Continue to pretend like no one is watching.
posted by clvrmnky at 10:56 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
A technical answer to "What is new in porn?" is resolution. Old Super8mm films look about 160x120pixels. Old video tapes transferred to digital look pretty bad. Even older format digital porn had to take into account resolution limitations.
Shooting has also progressed to match accepted industrial and cinematic production values. A well lit scene makes a difference.
If you like vanilla sex, there's still a range of possibilities and locations. If you're creative, there's a huge range of porn that's never been widely available. Peter Acworth's Kink.com kingdom is still adding domains and genres regularly.
Combine bandwidth and data format improvements, the mainstreaming of non-vanilla porn, and crew skills, and today's porn kicks ass compared to that of even five years ago. If you're into that. Kicking ass, that is. Rule 34.
Next up: 3D and teledildonics.
posted by lothar at 11:00 AM on January 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
Shooting has also progressed to match accepted industrial and cinematic production values. A well lit scene makes a difference.
If you like vanilla sex, there's still a range of possibilities and locations. If you're creative, there's a huge range of porn that's never been widely available. Peter Acworth's Kink.com kingdom is still adding domains and genres regularly.
Combine bandwidth and data format improvements, the mainstreaming of non-vanilla porn, and crew skills, and today's porn kicks ass compared to that of even five years ago. If you're into that. Kicking ass, that is. Rule 34.
Next up: 3D and teledildonics.
posted by lothar at 11:00 AM on January 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
A lot of typos in this thread so far. Wonder what folks might be doing that would cause that.
*cue funky bass line*
posted by Pollomacho at 11:02 AM on January 11, 2010
*cue funky bass line*
posted by Pollomacho at 11:02 AM on January 11, 2010
They're not looking outside the box. Two words: product placement.
posted by pracowity at 11:03 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by pracowity at 11:03 AM on January 11, 2010
All the Sasha Grey love in the piece baffles me as well
This is one of the things I find weird about most journalism-about-porn--it's generally embarrassingly obvious on which porn performers the writer has a big ol' crush.
I hope that when I write about mainstream movies it doesn't come off as obviously. "Is the action movie bigger than ever, or biggest than ever? Let's ask George Clooney, Robert Downey, Jr., Chiwetel Ejiofor, and that one completely adorable guy from the Taco Bell commercial!"
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:03 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is one of the things I find weird about most journalism-about-porn--it's generally embarrassingly obvious on which porn performers the writer has a big ol' crush.
I hope that when I write about mainstream movies it doesn't come off as obviously. "Is the action movie bigger than ever, or biggest than ever? Let's ask George Clooney, Robert Downey, Jr., Chiwetel Ejiofor, and that one completely adorable guy from the Taco Bell commercial!"
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:03 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Next up: 3D and teledildonics.
I still jerk off manually.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:04 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
I still jerk off manually.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:04 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
> Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good.
You, sir, have obviously never eaten at the Canadian chain 3-4-1 Pizza and Wings ("How is it?" "It's one-third worse than 2-4-1.")
There's also a 4 For 1 in Hamilton, but I'd be scared to eat there.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:07 AM on January 11, 2010
You, sir, have obviously never eaten at the Canadian chain 3-4-1 Pizza and Wings ("How is it?" "It's one-third worse than 2-4-1.")
There's also a 4 For 1 in Hamilton, but I'd be scared to eat there.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:07 AM on January 11, 2010
lothar: "Next up: 3D and teledildonics."
Should I be proud or ashamed that I didn't know this was a thing?
posted by brundlefly at 11:09 AM on January 11, 2010
Should I be proud or ashamed that I didn't know this was a thing?
posted by brundlefly at 11:09 AM on January 11, 2010
A technical answer to "What is new in porn?" is resolution.
At some point, extra resolution becomes a bad thing. cf. Cameron Diaz.
posted by GuyZero at 11:10 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
At some point, extra resolution becomes a bad thing. cf. Cameron Diaz.
posted by GuyZero at 11:10 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
From the (rather lame) article:
"If people don’t realize it is stealing... " yadda yadda ... “I don’t think people are just going to do what porn stars do for free and put it on the Internet,” she said.
Rubbish. Most people can't play like Charlie Parker, so we need our musical virtuosos, but shagging and bragging? No sweat.
posted by fcummins at 11:10 AM on January 11, 2010
"If people don’t realize it is stealing... " yadda yadda ... “I don’t think people are just going to do what porn stars do for free and put it on the Internet,” she said.
Rubbish. Most people can't play like Charlie Parker, so we need our musical virtuosos, but shagging and bragging? No sweat.
posted by fcummins at 11:10 AM on January 11, 2010
Porn is like pizza.
Don't eat the crust.
posted by pracowity at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2010 [11 favorites]
Don't eat the crust.
posted by pracowity at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2010 [11 favorites]
8 - amateurs that are willing to exhibit themselves for nothing
posted by pyramid termite at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by pyramid termite at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2010
Rubbish. Most people can't play like Charlie Parker, so we need our musical virtuosos, but shagging and bragging? No sweat
I think what he means is that you don't see a whole lot of amateurs doing triple-penetration marathons while drinking 5-gallon buckets of semen, all while riding a rickshaw pulled by a midget getting a blowjob from a circus clown.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2010 [21 favorites]
I think what he means is that you don't see a whole lot of amateurs doing triple-penetration marathons while drinking 5-gallon buckets of semen, all while riding a rickshaw pulled by a midget getting a blowjob from a circus clown.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2010 [21 favorites]
Most porn is god-awful crap. Ninety-nine percent of it can be summed up like this:
Shaky premise where male and female meet (pizza delivery, heating/AC repair, auto repair).
Jump cut to 76 minute blowjob.
Jump cut to :22 seconds of cunnilingus.
Various jump cuts to a few positions out of "Joy of Sex" (available at most Border's Books).
Jump cut of last scene of previously dominant female suddenly allowing herself the "luxury" of a facial.
Seriously, does any guy, myself included, really need more than :30 seconds of porn at any given time? I know I don't don't. I got shit to do.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2010 [14 favorites]
Shaky premise where male and female meet (pizza delivery, heating/AC repair, auto repair).
Jump cut to 76 minute blowjob.
Jump cut to :22 seconds of cunnilingus.
Various jump cuts to a few positions out of "Joy of Sex" (available at most Border's Books).
Jump cut of last scene of previously dominant female suddenly allowing herself the "luxury" of a facial.
Seriously, does any guy, myself included, really need more than :30 seconds of porn at any given time? I know I don't don't. I got shit to do.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:15 AM on January 11, 2010 [14 favorites]
After a few decades on your planet consuming a variety of your fast-food items, I can say with conviction that there is such a thing as bad pizza that is not pretty good. I'm reasonably sure I have received damp cardboard tarted up with tomato-ish sauce and Food-like Brand ToppingsTM that was called pizza on more than one occasion.
When I was a student, my flatmate bought a frozen pizza that had "cheese-style topping" on.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 11:17 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
When I was a student, my flatmate bought a frozen pizza that had "cheese-style topping" on.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 11:17 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
ProPornlica -- Pornography in the Public Interest
posted by The Straightener at 11:18 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by The Straightener at 11:18 AM on January 11, 2010
Playboy from '82 is pretty much the same as one from last month.
Actually no, our ideals for appearance have changed dramatically. As someone upstream noted, there's different...grooming. Also I doubt seriously if Harry Reems or Ron Jeramy could get arrested for a porno, let alone hired for one in this day and age.
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
And while we're at it, let's talk about fetishes. You can have the narrowest, goofiest fetish and there's someone out there willing to record it for your pleasure.
(Warning, broad, sweeping generalization approaching) Porn desensitizes people to intimacy and sex. Most people aren't going to do what porn actors do and if they watch too much porn, there's a feeling of inadequacy and an inability to really appreciate sex as a tool of intimacy. You've got people out there chasing sexual thrills that just don't exist in real realationships.
I dispair of the younger generation, all brought up with images of physical perfection, theirs for the price of a plastic surgeon. I see beautiful young people eyeing their blemishes and imperfections and saving up for just 'one more thing' so that they can be perfect. Or saving up for a tramp-stamp.
I'm not one to censor, we're all adults here and you can decide for yourself. I do agree that too much sexual stimulation is like too much narcotic stimulation, you can wear out those centers of your brain and in the end just as people who have blown out their dopamine receptors from too much meth, I believe that you can blow out your sexual-pleasure centers.
What else explains a double-penetration, latex-wearing, bondage, spanking and toe-sucking video?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:19 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Actually no, our ideals for appearance have changed dramatically. As someone upstream noted, there's different...grooming. Also I doubt seriously if Harry Reems or Ron Jeramy could get arrested for a porno, let alone hired for one in this day and age.
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
And while we're at it, let's talk about fetishes. You can have the narrowest, goofiest fetish and there's someone out there willing to record it for your pleasure.
(Warning, broad, sweeping generalization approaching) Porn desensitizes people to intimacy and sex. Most people aren't going to do what porn actors do and if they watch too much porn, there's a feeling of inadequacy and an inability to really appreciate sex as a tool of intimacy. You've got people out there chasing sexual thrills that just don't exist in real realationships.
I dispair of the younger generation, all brought up with images of physical perfection, theirs for the price of a plastic surgeon. I see beautiful young people eyeing their blemishes and imperfections and saving up for just 'one more thing' so that they can be perfect. Or saving up for a tramp-stamp.
I'm not one to censor, we're all adults here and you can decide for yourself. I do agree that too much sexual stimulation is like too much narcotic stimulation, you can wear out those centers of your brain and in the end just as people who have blown out their dopamine receptors from too much meth, I believe that you can blow out your sexual-pleasure centers.
What else explains a double-penetration, latex-wearing, bondage, spanking and toe-sucking video?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:19 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think what he means is that you don't see a whole lot of amateurs doing triple-penetration marathons while drinking 5-gallon buckets of semen, all while riding a rickshaw pulled by a midget getting a blowjob from a circus clown.
You're describing a classic case of disruptive innovation. The entrenched market leaders try to compete on features while the new market entrants are less functional but a lot cheaper (or free).
I find it amusing the think that I have finally managed to compare Digital Computers to pornography, but there it is.
Note that trying to put more midgets, rickshaws and cocks into holes generally does not reverse the economic decline of a company whose primary product is being disrupted.
posted by GuyZero at 11:20 AM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
You're describing a classic case of disruptive innovation. The entrenched market leaders try to compete on features while the new market entrants are less functional but a lot cheaper (or free).
I find it amusing the think that I have finally managed to compare Digital Computers to pornography, but there it is.
Note that trying to put more midgets, rickshaws and cocks into holes generally does not reverse the economic decline of a company whose primary product is being disrupted.
posted by GuyZero at 11:20 AM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
EndsOfInvention: "When I was a student, my flatmate bought a frozen pizza that had "cheese-style topping" on."
I don't even want to venture a guess on the delivery system used to dispense the "cheese-style" topping.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:21 AM on January 11, 2010
I don't even want to venture a guess on the delivery system used to dispense the "cheese-style" topping.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:21 AM on January 11, 2010
I think the same arguments that can be used in a variety of industries applies- not giving the people what they want at a price and convenience that is competitive with what's available.
There are subscription services for music available, but if I only really want a particular song (or scene), the subscription isn't a good value.
itunes seems to be doing fairly well in this regard, but really doesn't cater to folks who want higher quality/different formats. And even then, they are competing with the used CD market (which places the value of a single song at 50 cents by my calculation, since I'm not getting any cover art, liner notes, and I have to burn it myself).
And that's not even touching the whole weirdness that is still somewhat attached to porn (the feminist arguments of degradation, the right-wing taboos, etc.).
If anything, this is a sign that the porn industry has matured.
posted by quintessencesluglord at 11:21 AM on January 11, 2010
There are subscription services for music available, but if I only really want a particular song (or scene), the subscription isn't a good value.
itunes seems to be doing fairly well in this regard, but really doesn't cater to folks who want higher quality/different formats. And even then, they are competing with the used CD market (which places the value of a single song at 50 cents by my calculation, since I'm not getting any cover art, liner notes, and I have to burn it myself).
And that's not even touching the whole weirdness that is still somewhat attached to porn (the feminist arguments of degradation, the right-wing taboos, etc.).
If anything, this is a sign that the porn industry has matured.
posted by quintessencesluglord at 11:21 AM on January 11, 2010
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good.
This only applies to the New York market. We have better pizza than the rest of the world (and apparently better porn, which is harder to explain).
posted by Crash at 11:22 AM on January 11, 2010
This only applies to the New York market. We have better pizza than the rest of the world (and apparently better porn, which is harder to explain).
posted by Crash at 11:22 AM on January 11, 2010
Actually no, our ideals for appearance have changed dramatically.
I would argue that the porn industry's standards have changed, but that most people - especially those who are not big consumers of pron - would find older videos about as titillating.
posted by GuyZero at 11:24 AM on January 11, 2010
I would argue that the porn industry's standards have changed, but that most people - especially those who are not big consumers of pron - would find older videos about as titillating.
posted by GuyZero at 11:24 AM on January 11, 2010
You're describing a classic case of disruptive innovation.
Actually I was describing my honeymoon.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
Actually I was describing my honeymoon.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips.
Wow, gay porn has changed so much!
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
Wow, gay porn has changed so much!
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:26 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
Money shot: "We are making money on VOD. It isn't the newspaper business yet." Heh.
posted by fixedgear at 11:27 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fixedgear at 11:27 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
If that is the penultimate the industry has to offer, they're in bigger trouble than they even know.
Matt, tell me I didn't see you using "penultimate" incorrectly. (Unless it was a joke--peen-ultimate?)
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:33 PM on January 11
Maybe it is commentary? Porn-for-profit is dying, but he is willing to pay for it one more time, thus this is their second-to-last chance?
posted by I am the Walrus at 11:29 AM on January 11, 2010
Matt, tell me I didn't see you using "penultimate" incorrectly. (Unless it was a joke--peen-ultimate?)
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:33 PM on January 11
Maybe it is commentary? Porn-for-profit is dying, but he is willing to pay for it one more time, thus this is their second-to-last chance?
posted by I am the Walrus at 11:29 AM on January 11, 2010
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff.
At the risk of going into TMI about my own habits: Clearly you and I are watching different kinds of porn.
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:30 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
At the risk of going into TMI about my own habits: Clearly you and I are watching different kinds of porn.
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:30 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I worked in a video and adult novelty store for a brief period, probably around seven years ago. Even then, you could definitely see the impact of internet - most of the folks picking up VHS and DVDs really gave out that "Clueless relative that is always asking if you can come over and look at their computer, because it won't do that thing that it used to do, and you're so good with that sort of thing." vibe. The chain shut down a few years ago, I believe.
And yeah, Sasha Grey's rep is mostly based on her work in the relatively less mainstream degrading and rougher stuff. In regular stuff, she usually just comes across as bored, but her aloofness works in the types of 'stories' where they take the woman down a peg (So to speak) and melt the ice queen demeanor. With their wangs.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:31 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
And yeah, Sasha Grey's rep is mostly based on her work in the relatively less mainstream degrading and rougher stuff. In regular stuff, she usually just comes across as bored, but her aloofness works in the types of 'stories' where they take the woman down a peg (So to speak) and melt the ice queen demeanor. With their wangs.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:31 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Our cable has been fixed?
posted by Eideteker at 11:32 AM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by Eideteker at 11:32 AM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think what he means is that you don't see a whole lot of amateurs doing triple-penetration marathons while drinking 5-gallon buckets of semen, all while riding a rickshaw pulled by a midget getting a blowjob from a circus clown.
That's more of a Van Halen Eruption than a Charley Parker riff, no?
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
That might have been true in the early 90s before the internet explosion, but not since. now there is anything and everything. Or so I've been told, hey, what's that over there?
posted by Pollomacho at 11:34 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
That's more of a Van Halen Eruption than a Charley Parker riff, no?
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
That might have been true in the early 90s before the internet explosion, but not since. now there is anything and everything. Or so I've been told, hey, what's that over there?
posted by Pollomacho at 11:34 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is mostly my fault. As I've gotten older, I find that the amount of porn I can enjoy has significantly decreased. Time was, I could enjoy porn six or seven times a day. Now I'm down to six or seven times a week. Often less.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:36 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:36 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
They're not looking outside the box. Two words: product placement.
Product placement... inside the box?
Also note: Deep Throat pioneered this with its use of vaginal Coca-Cola.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:36 AM on January 11, 2010
Product placement... inside the box?
Also note: Deep Throat pioneered this with its use of vaginal Coca-Cola.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:36 AM on January 11, 2010
This is mostly my fault. As I've gotten older, I find that the amount of porn I can enjoy has significantly decreased. Time was, I could enjoy porn six or seven times a day. Now I'm down to six or seven times a week. Often less.
Omigod tell me more!
posted by shakespeherian at 11:39 AM on January 11, 2010
Omigod tell me more!
posted by shakespeherian at 11:39 AM on January 11, 2010
I sell porn DVDs for a living, and mosk's buddy is spot on. Our market has almost completely dried up in the last three or four years, and it's really just older folk buying DVDs. Where my store is situated, we also get honeymooners using their hotels' dvd players for a bit of post nuptial titillation, and the odd lonely travelling worker, but the bulk is older folk with minimal tech skills. The only people regularly buying are people who for whatever reason can't download.
posted by Jilder at 11:40 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by Jilder at 11:40 AM on January 11, 2010
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
Yeah, there are a lot of Jenna Jameson clones out there, but that doesn't mean there isn't any diversity - in fact, it could probably be argued that it's easier for actors who don't fit the pneumatic blonde stereotype to raise their profile than those who do. Sasha Grey's a petite brunette. Faith Leon is a slim and incredibly tall brunette. Belladonna is, well, Belladonna. (Just to name three fairly well-know actors off the top of my head.)
There are as many shapes and sizes and types working in porn as there are kinds of porn. Some genres and actors appeal to a more niche audience than others, but there's just as much diversity as there has ever been, possibly more.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:42 AM on January 11, 2010
Yeah, there are a lot of Jenna Jameson clones out there, but that doesn't mean there isn't any diversity - in fact, it could probably be argued that it's easier for actors who don't fit the pneumatic blonde stereotype to raise their profile than those who do. Sasha Grey's a petite brunette. Faith Leon is a slim and incredibly tall brunette. Belladonna is, well, Belladonna. (Just to name three fairly well-know actors off the top of my head.)
There are as many shapes and sizes and types working in porn as there are kinds of porn. Some genres and actors appeal to a more niche audience than others, but there's just as much diversity as there has ever been, possibly more.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:42 AM on January 11, 2010
I don't get why porn isn't evergreen content.
If you look at the ads, it's like the regular film business: they're pushing big names, trying to sell you on the latest star vehicle. If a company tried to sell a 20-year-old boy-meats-girl film ("In a world where a man with a large penis must pull out at the last second and ejaculate on a woman's face to survive..."), I'm betting people wouldn't recognize the names of the actors or they'd associate them with their older, saggier bodies. "Schoolgirl Romp? Shit. She must be 40 by now."
posted by pracowity at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you look at the ads, it's like the regular film business: they're pushing big names, trying to sell you on the latest star vehicle. If a company tried to sell a 20-year-old boy-meats-girl film ("In a world where a man with a large penis must pull out at the last second and ejaculate on a woman's face to survive..."), I'm betting people wouldn't recognize the names of the actors or they'd associate them with their older, saggier bodies. "Schoolgirl Romp? Shit. She must be 40 by now."
posted by pracowity at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
but there's just as much diversity as there has ever been, possibly more
Yeah, so much diversity they had to invent a rule to cover it.
posted by Pragmatica at 11:47 AM on January 11, 2010
Yeah, so much diversity they had to invent a rule to cover it.
posted by Pragmatica at 11:47 AM on January 11, 2010
Wow -- the Internet really is the great equalizer. For the longest time, it's been pretty common knowledge (well, if you were at all familiar with that particular community) that even the biggest gay porn superstars of the big labels didn't make that much for their movies, but instead used those movies to get their names out there where the real money was in personal appearances, stripping, and escort work. #5 shows that this is true for the ladies too. Hmmm.
(Actually come to think of it, with the exception of the video on demand point, these were all the same questions being talked about in the gay porn community 10-12 years ago. Christ, I'm getting old.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:49 AM on January 11, 2010
(Actually come to think of it, with the exception of the video on demand point, these were all the same questions being talked about in the gay porn community 10-12 years ago. Christ, I'm getting old.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:49 AM on January 11, 2010
I think what he means is that you don't see a whole lot of amateurs doing triple-penetration marathons while drinking 5-gallon buckets of semen, all while riding a rickshaw pulled by a midget getting a blowjob from a circus clown.
How many snakes?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:51 AM on January 11, 2010
How many snakes?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:51 AM on January 11, 2010
8 - amateurs that are willing to exhibit themselves for nothing
This is the elephant(-cock) in the living room, I think. I can't remember the last time I bothered to even pirate professional porn, because amateur porn is:
- (Generally) free.
- Abundant.
- Easy to find.
- Not usually surrounded by hard-sells, scams, deception, etc.
- Has much more 'soul'/features real people doing what they genuinely enjoy when they want to and in an environment they're comfortable with.
- Doesn't have a distractingly terrible "story" getting in the way
- Is far less likely to have a pervasive sense of skeeziness, condescension and/or misogyny
- Mostly doesn't feature unattainably (and, really, unattractively) "perfect"/generic models with who mostly seem like unpleasant or, at best, boring people.
- Doesn't feature that goddamn awful fake moaning/screaming.
- Often has more possibility to interact with the people you're seeing: comments, profiles, messages, the possibility to make a connections that lead to real-life encounters.
- ... and, geeze, I could go on!
Not to mention the rise in easy, more reliable and safe casual encounters, or online interaction (chatrooms, IM, email), facilitated by the internet these days, which makes porn less of a necessity anyway. If anything I think the trend for big-studio, "hollywood"-style porn done by people you could never have a connection with has been the anomaly, and I for one won't be sad to see it go at all.
Hell, some of the hottest porn I've seen was a box of photographs we found in my grandfather's attic (bless his soul). I'm sure money was involved when they were made, to be sold under the counter in seaside shops -- but the smiles, the intimacy, the ecstasy in those washed-out snapshots of couples, friends, students, swingers, sailors and hookers were a million times more genuine than Sasha Grey (or whoever) could ever manage.
(Thank heaven for sockpuppet accounts!)
posted by teresci at 11:54 AM on January 11, 2010 [18 favorites]
This is the elephant(-cock) in the living room, I think. I can't remember the last time I bothered to even pirate professional porn, because amateur porn is:
- (Generally) free.
- Abundant.
- Easy to find.
- Not usually surrounded by hard-sells, scams, deception, etc.
- Has much more 'soul'/features real people doing what they genuinely enjoy when they want to and in an environment they're comfortable with.
- Doesn't have a distractingly terrible "story" getting in the way
- Is far less likely to have a pervasive sense of skeeziness, condescension and/or misogyny
- Mostly doesn't feature unattainably (and, really, unattractively) "perfect"/generic models with who mostly seem like unpleasant or, at best, boring people.
- Doesn't feature that goddamn awful fake moaning/screaming.
- Often has more possibility to interact with the people you're seeing: comments, profiles, messages, the possibility to make a connections that lead to real-life encounters.
- ... and, geeze, I could go on!
Not to mention the rise in easy, more reliable and safe casual encounters, or online interaction (chatrooms, IM, email), facilitated by the internet these days, which makes porn less of a necessity anyway. If anything I think the trend for big-studio, "hollywood"-style porn done by people you could never have a connection with has been the anomaly, and I for one won't be sad to see it go at all.
Hell, some of the hottest porn I've seen was a box of photographs we found in my grandfather's attic (bless his soul). I'm sure money was involved when they were made, to be sold under the counter in seaside shops -- but the smiles, the intimacy, the ecstasy in those washed-out snapshots of couples, friends, students, swingers, sailors and hookers were a million times more genuine than Sasha Grey (or whoever) could ever manage.
(Thank heaven for sockpuppet accounts!)
posted by teresci at 11:54 AM on January 11, 2010 [18 favorites]
20-year-old boy-meats-girl film
I don't know if that was a typo or deliberate, but it sure made me laugh. And I'm at work, so trying to explain what I was laughing about was rather difficult.
posted by never used baby shoes at 11:58 AM on January 11, 2010
I don't know if that was a typo or deliberate, but it sure made me laugh. And I'm at work, so trying to explain what I was laughing about was rather difficult.
posted by never used baby shoes at 11:58 AM on January 11, 2010
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
Considering how incredibly easy it is to find porn online, it's somewhat amazing that a computer-literate person would make such a ridiculous statement. Yes, that's pretty much what you'll see at the Adult Expo and on 50+% of the DVDs at your local adult bookstore, but online the situation is entirely different -- it's a buffet of everything under the sun. I HATE fake breasts, and thanks to the magic of the internet, I can watch thousands of hours of porn without seeing any.
And THIS is why porn-for-profit is dying. I can spend a few hundred bucks posing as a porn producer, nail some hot chicks, and post the videos online where I'll get some of my money back from ads. It's a win-win situation for me: Even if I don't recoup my initial investment, I've gotten laid repeatedly.
And while we're at it, let's talk about fetishes. You can have the narrowest, goofiest fetish and there's someone out there willing to record it for your pleasure.
Which negates your stereotyping comment about "porn actors", no? Or is "natural" not a fetish?
posted by coolguymichael at 11:59 AM on January 11, 2010
Considering how incredibly easy it is to find porn online, it's somewhat amazing that a computer-literate person would make such a ridiculous statement. Yes, that's pretty much what you'll see at the Adult Expo and on 50+% of the DVDs at your local adult bookstore, but online the situation is entirely different -- it's a buffet of everything under the sun. I HATE fake breasts, and thanks to the magic of the internet, I can watch thousands of hours of porn without seeing any.
And THIS is why porn-for-profit is dying. I can spend a few hundred bucks posing as a porn producer, nail some hot chicks, and post the videos online where I'll get some of my money back from ads. It's a win-win situation for me: Even if I don't recoup my initial investment, I've gotten laid repeatedly.
And while we're at it, let's talk about fetishes. You can have the narrowest, goofiest fetish and there's someone out there willing to record it for your pleasure.
Which negates your stereotyping comment about "porn actors", no? Or is "natural" not a fetish?
posted by coolguymichael at 11:59 AM on January 11, 2010
At some point, extra resolution becomes a bad thing. cf. Cameron Diaz.
Skinemax etc show some of their softcore crap in HD now. The women's bodies seem to consist entirely of implant scars, razor burn, and ass pimples. I shudder to think what HD hardcore must look like.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
Skinemax etc show some of their softcore crap in HD now. The women's bodies seem to consist entirely of implant scars, razor burn, and ass pimples. I shudder to think what HD hardcore must look like.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:00 PM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
It's weird the porn industry doesn't go more RIAA on the pirating thing. A few downloaders being loudly sued for stealing Donkey Schoolgirl Diaper Rape 4 would probably scare a lot of people away from the torrents.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:08 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:08 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
A few downloaders being loudly sued for stealing Donkey Schoolgirl Diaper Rape 4 would probably scare a lot of people away from the torrents.
You scared me away from torrents just with that title.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:12 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
You scared me away from torrents just with that title.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:12 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, sequels are lame.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:27 PM on January 11, 2010 [24 favorites]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:27 PM on January 11, 2010 [24 favorites]
Yeah, I hate trying to get into a series from a middle movie too.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:27 PM on January 11, 2010
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:27 PM on January 11, 2010
EAT FLAMING GRIDFIRE, FURIOUSXGEORGE
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:28 PM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
I can spend a few hundred bucks posing as a porn producer, nail some hot chicks, and post the videos online where I'll get some of my money back from ads
The fly-by-night aspect makes Internet pornography wonderful. "I'm legit, baby. Look, I have a desk and everything!"
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:29 PM on January 11, 2010
The fly-by-night aspect makes Internet pornography wonderful. "I'm legit, baby. Look, I have a desk and everything!"
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:29 PM on January 11, 2010
(Warning, broad, sweeping generalization approaching) Porn desensitizes people to intimacy and sex. Most people aren't going to do what porn actors do and if they watch too much porn, there's a feeling of inadequacy and an inability to really appreciate sex as a tool of intimacy. You've got people out there chasing sexual thrills that just don't exist in real realationships.
Citation? I have heard this before from the anti-porn (aka religious) crowd, but never seen anything to back it up. Everything I have ever seen regarding this is just anecdotal.
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:33 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Citation? I have heard this before from the anti-porn (aka religious) crowd, but never seen anything to back it up. Everything I have ever seen regarding this is just anecdotal.
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:33 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Second hand anecdotal reason that may affect the porn industry - the credit card companies really screw with small time porn makers. I've a friend, an "erotic hypnotist", who tried making his money offering videos (very tame, hypnotized women orgasming) but is so continuously screwed by the credit card companies that he's in debt despite the popularity of his videos; people are paying but the credit card companies have a ton of excuses not to pay my friend. After a handful of years with this trouble, he's given up and got his dive masters certification.
posted by _paegan_ at 12:34 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by _paegan_ at 12:34 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's weird the porn industry doesn't go more RIAA on the pirating thing. A few downloaders being loudly sued for stealing Donkey Schoolgirl Diaper Rape 4 would probably scare a lot of people away from the torrents.
I think Larry Flynt is going after the *tubes and torrents for copyright violations of his material. I don't think DSDR franchise is one of his properties though.
posted by birdherder at 12:36 PM on January 11, 2010
I think Larry Flynt is going after the *tubes and torrents for copyright violations of his material. I don't think DSDR franchise is one of his properties though.
posted by birdherder at 12:36 PM on January 11, 2010
So I shouldn't be paying extra for not rewinding "Rochelle, Rochelle, an Erotic Journey from Minsk to Milan?"
I'm watching reruns of Seinfeld. Help me!
posted by Dumsnill at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2010
I'm watching reruns of Seinfeld. Help me!
posted by Dumsnill at 12:37 PM on January 11, 2010
Porn desensitizes people
Citation?
Not the porn's fault per se, but... see also response to DNY
posted by Pollomacho at 12:44 PM on January 11, 2010
Citation?
Not the porn's fault per se, but... see also response to DNY
posted by Pollomacho at 12:44 PM on January 11, 2010
Peak Oral
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:50 PM on January 11, 2010 [18 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:50 PM on January 11, 2010 [18 favorites]
An interesting trend lately in porn seems to be x-rated parody. Here's the nominees for this year's AVN (NSFW). Discounting the (orifice)(verb)ers (#) movies, a good chunk of the rest are parodies.
Seinfeld: A XXX Parody? People wanted to see that cast naked? Happy Days, X-Files, 30 Rock, etc etc.
posted by graventy at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2010
Seinfeld: A XXX Parody? People wanted to see that cast naked? Happy Days, X-Files, 30 Rock, etc etc.
posted by graventy at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2010
There's also a 4 for 1 in Hamilton, but I'd be scarred to eat there.
Mrs. Example and I were on a bus in southern London earlier today and passed a place called Sturgeon's Fish and Chips.
Without missing a beat she said, "It's only good ten percent of the time."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2010 [11 favorites]
Mrs. Example and I were on a bus in southern London earlier today and passed a place called Sturgeon's Fish and Chips.
Without missing a beat she said, "It's only good ten percent of the time."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2010 [11 favorites]
good riddance.
I never got why professional porn producers thought clear-glass stripper heels, bad acting, lame music, the weirdest possible makeup and tacky mansions were at all beneficial to their product. strip it all away and you are left with a hopefully hot and capable couple and you might just be lucky enough that you don't have to endure her moaning in that ultra-fake way that only porn actresses do.
posted by krautland at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I never got why professional porn producers thought clear-glass stripper heels, bad acting, lame music, the weirdest possible makeup and tacky mansions were at all beneficial to their product. strip it all away and you are left with a hopefully hot and capable couple and you might just be lucky enough that you don't have to endure her moaning in that ultra-fake way that only porn actresses do.
posted by krautland at 1:06 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
There's also a 4 for 1 in Hamilton, but I'd be scarred to eat there.
At the 4-for-1 in particular, or just in Hamilton?
Really, either seems reasonable.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:18 PM on January 11, 2010
At the 4-for-1 in particular, or just in Hamilton?
Really, either seems reasonable.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:18 PM on January 11, 2010
endure her moaning in that ultra-fake way that only porn actresses do.
wait, that kind of moaning is fake?
Also let's worry too much about the death of the porn industry, I'll bet they can manage a second coming...
I'll get my raincoat
posted by criticalbill at 1:22 PM on January 11, 2010
wait, that kind of moaning is fake?
Also let's worry too much about the death of the porn industry, I'll bet they can manage a second coming...
I'll get my raincoat
posted by criticalbill at 1:22 PM on January 11, 2010
What else explains a double-penetration, latex-wearing, bondage, spanking and toe-sucking video?
Kinky people are not jaded people who have overdosed on vanilla porn any more than queer people are rejects who can't make it with the opposite sex or sluts who have run out of potential partners. Did you even consider the hypothesis that people might engage in a sexual behavior and seek to consume related videos because it turns them on?
posted by mayhap at 1:23 PM on January 11, 2010 [10 favorites]
Kinky people are not jaded people who have overdosed on vanilla porn any more than queer people are rejects who can't make it with the opposite sex or sluts who have run out of potential partners. Did you even consider the hypothesis that people might engage in a sexual behavior and seek to consume related videos because it turns them on?
posted by mayhap at 1:23 PM on January 11, 2010 [10 favorites]
In the mid to late 90s I worked in a rural video store that had an adult section (in a closet off the main floor.) Even then the better videos were parodies like Deep Space 69, etc. The video store was adjacent to a cult-style church and one co-worker and I would play porn at max volume before the store would open just to mess with them...ahhh being in high school and being a jerk.
Not only has free porn hurt the industry, but free porn has gotten so much better over the last decade that I would never buy it again. Ever.
posted by schyler523 at 1:26 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not only has free porn hurt the industry, but free porn has gotten so much better over the last decade that I would never buy it again. Ever.
posted by schyler523 at 1:26 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wonder how much of it is due to offshoring? Seems like a lot of the cheaper stuff now is shot with Russian (or former Bloc) performers, who have no English skills. They shoot five scenes in a day that go on five different websites aimed at various kinks. Then next week they find new girls. There's never a chance for someone to be a "star" who makes a few thousand.
posted by smackfu at 1:35 PM on January 11, 2010
posted by smackfu at 1:35 PM on January 11, 2010
Piracy is probably the stupidest reason they could have provided for pro-porn's dwindling sales. As teresci pointed out, there are hundreds upon hundreds of free sites featuring videos of sex acts made by ordinary people having fun*. Suddenly, all the things people laughed at or criticized about porn - the contrived acting, the plastic surgery, the buying of human beings, just the overall fakeness of it all - no longer applies. Now there are videos of straight-up sex, where sincere fun is being had, and it's free.
The losses due to piracy are probably negligible compared to what amateur porn is doing to the pro-porn industry.
*Mind you, there is still a really evil side to amateur porn - revenge porn - that can't be overlooked. How many people in these videos are aware they are being viewed or going to be viewed by possibly thousands of strangers, and are totally OK with that?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:39 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
The losses due to piracy are probably negligible compared to what amateur porn is doing to the pro-porn industry.
*Mind you, there is still a really evil side to amateur porn - revenge porn - that can't be overlooked. How many people in these videos are aware they are being viewed or going to be viewed by possibly thousands of strangers, and are totally OK with that?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:39 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Porn desensitizes people to intimacy and sex.
Not cool, dude. Porn movies aren't really my bag, but that's an incredibly big - and judgemental - call. Whatever get people through the night.
Anecdote: When I was a video (video, ha!) store clerk back in my student days, the vast majortiy (>80%) of people who hired porn were couples. Comparitively very few single men got porn (from a regular video store, at any rate). Weirdest video-store porn experience was the mum who used to get a stack of 5 weeklies for the special deal, each and every a porno (most people tried to hide theirs between four innocuous movies). That wasn't weird, what was weird was they were very clearly for her 16/17 year old son, who stood behind her each time, gazing at the movie posters or the floor. I remember thinking, "that is both the coolest, and the most embarrassing mum in the world".
posted by smoke at 2:32 PM on January 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
Not cool, dude. Porn movies aren't really my bag, but that's an incredibly big - and judgemental - call. Whatever get people through the night.
Anecdote: When I was a video (video, ha!) store clerk back in my student days, the vast majortiy (>80%) of people who hired porn were couples. Comparitively very few single men got porn (from a regular video store, at any rate). Weirdest video-store porn experience was the mum who used to get a stack of 5 weeklies for the special deal, each and every a porno (most people tried to hide theirs between four innocuous movies). That wasn't weird, what was weird was they were very clearly for her 16/17 year old son, who stood behind her each time, gazing at the movie posters or the floor. I remember thinking, "that is both the coolest, and the most embarrassing mum in the world".
posted by smoke at 2:32 PM on January 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
To overthink things a little: Sexuality is the side of human experience we know least about. There are obvious reasons for this historically: few people were exposed to much in the way of variety, or opportunity to explore. As a consequence, we know shockingly little about the variety that exists in preference, experience, desire or comfort for this huge huge area of our lives, our selves. (Fun book).
The internet, in its nice self-organizing way, has allowed the expression of almost any desire. Through simple Darwinian competition, we are seeing a cartography emerge, written in the porn people want to view when they can have any port they like. We ought to study this openly, and appreciate that at last we can find out how people are constructed.
Meanwhile, in Uganda.....
(This would have been my answer to this year's Edge).
posted by fcummins at 2:37 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
The internet, in its nice self-organizing way, has allowed the expression of almost any desire. Through simple Darwinian competition, we are seeing a cartography emerge, written in the porn people want to view when they can have any port they like. We ought to study this openly, and appreciate that at last we can find out how people are constructed.
Meanwhile, in Uganda.....
(This would have been my answer to this year's Edge).
posted by fcummins at 2:37 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having worked in porn, perhaps I can also shed some light on this topic.
Reason #6: The industry is occupied by some of the shadiest, sketchiest hucksters you've ever seen. Seriously. Weird, old dudes who inflict their personal tastes on an audience that is far more democratic than they think. I once suggested we make more porn featuring minorities (actual minorities, not tan Czechs with dark hair pretending to be Latin. Yes, we had more of those than I care to admit.) and was shot down because the guys running the place prefered white blondes.
Reason #7: The work ethic in and around porno makes the "real" film industry look like an ant colony on speed. Seriously, my time at Playboy seems like a circa 2000 dot com startup story. Let me tell you you of the six hours days, the producers passed out on my couch after coke binges, the movie afternoons, the craft service binges, the all-afternoon pinball tourneys, the working on your side projects on company time, the month where I got paid to watch the Olympics...
Reason #8: The industry folks that aren't shady, sketchy, out of touch 50 year olds are rejects from the "real" film industry. God, how much money did we throw away making DVD extras that no one was every going to watch but "had to have" because DVDs have extras? How much money did we throw away in post to fix seconds of a movie, thousands of dollars we would not recoup in sales. How many thousands of dollars in post did we lose recutting something a lawyer thought was offensive only for him/her to find something else offensive on the next revision?
Seriously, piracy is the first excuse of the criminally inept. If more porno producers did less coke, worked more hours, exerted more quality control, and marketed to anyoe besides white 40-50 year olds the Industry would be a bit better off.
But still, there's always gonna be some chick on Myspace giving it away for free and you can't beat that. The Sexual Revolution ate it's baby.
posted by davros42 at 2:37 PM on January 11, 2010 [14 favorites]
Reason #6: The industry is occupied by some of the shadiest, sketchiest hucksters you've ever seen. Seriously. Weird, old dudes who inflict their personal tastes on an audience that is far more democratic than they think. I once suggested we make more porn featuring minorities (actual minorities, not tan Czechs with dark hair pretending to be Latin. Yes, we had more of those than I care to admit.) and was shot down because the guys running the place prefered white blondes.
Reason #7: The work ethic in and around porno makes the "real" film industry look like an ant colony on speed. Seriously, my time at Playboy seems like a circa 2000 dot com startup story. Let me tell you you of the six hours days, the producers passed out on my couch after coke binges, the movie afternoons, the craft service binges, the all-afternoon pinball tourneys, the working on your side projects on company time, the month where I got paid to watch the Olympics...
Reason #8: The industry folks that aren't shady, sketchy, out of touch 50 year olds are rejects from the "real" film industry. God, how much money did we throw away making DVD extras that no one was every going to watch but "had to have" because DVDs have extras? How much money did we throw away in post to fix seconds of a movie, thousands of dollars we would not recoup in sales. How many thousands of dollars in post did we lose recutting something a lawyer thought was offensive only for him/her to find something else offensive on the next revision?
Seriously, piracy is the first excuse of the criminally inept. If more porno producers did less coke, worked more hours, exerted more quality control, and marketed to anyoe besides white 40-50 year olds the Industry would be a bit better off.
But still, there's always gonna be some chick on Myspace giving it away for free and you can't beat that. The Sexual Revolution ate it's baby.
posted by davros42 at 2:37 PM on January 11, 2010 [14 favorites]
@Pollomacho
I don't think that is what Ruthless Bunny was referring to. I think they are making the argument that the porn changes people's (men's) sexual expectations so much that they become underwhelmed with normal one-on-one encounters (with women). At least that is the argument I have heard in the past, and I do not buy it.
That is different than the physical issues that arouse from vigorous masturbation.
posted by I am the Walrus at 2:38 PM on January 11, 2010
I don't think that is what Ruthless Bunny was referring to. I think they are making the argument that the porn changes people's (men's) sexual expectations so much that they become underwhelmed with normal one-on-one encounters (with women). At least that is the argument I have heard in the past, and I do not buy it.
That is different than the physical issues that arouse from vigorous masturbation.
posted by I am the Walrus at 2:38 PM on January 11, 2010
Any port you like sound's kinda cool too though.
posted by fcummins at 2:39 PM on January 11, 2010
Piracy and it's not sexy.
Andrew Blake (SFW) is doing just fine.
posted by Damienmce at 2:39 PM on January 11, 2010
Andrew Blake (SFW) is doing just fine.
posted by Damienmce at 2:39 PM on January 11, 2010
Does "amateur porn" ever include a non-participating cameraman? Because the amateur stuff I've seen all has some terrible fixed camera sitting on the dresser at the depressing motel, pointing statically at one spot on the bed with the stained green bedspread. The big thing that commerical porn seems to have going for it is a bit of camera motion, even two camera edits.
I don't get why porn isn't evergreen content.
Dunno about straight porn, but for gay porn there's a lot of current fashion. Something made this year looks different from something made just a few years ago. Different haircuts, different body types, different hair patterns. Boys like Peter Berlin (SFWish) do not exist today.
posted by Nelson at 2:44 PM on January 11, 2010
I don't get why porn isn't evergreen content.
Dunno about straight porn, but for gay porn there's a lot of current fashion. Something made this year looks different from something made just a few years ago. Different haircuts, different body types, different hair patterns. Boys like Peter Berlin (SFWish) do not exist today.
posted by Nelson at 2:44 PM on January 11, 2010
> Does "amateur porn" ever include a non-participating cameraman?
Yes, though it is interesting just how popular POV (point of view, participant-shot) porn is. Hollywood movies always pretend the camera isn't there. Some film makers are very sensitive to the fact that the camera, by necessity, provides a point of view.
posted by fcummins at 2:50 PM on January 11, 2010
Yes, though it is interesting just how popular POV (point of view, participant-shot) porn is. Hollywood movies always pretend the camera isn't there. Some film makers are very sensitive to the fact that the camera, by necessity, provides a point of view.
posted by fcummins at 2:50 PM on January 11, 2010
... "cummins" ...*snrk*
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:51 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:51 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good. Everybody has different preferences, and a few people don't enjoy it at all.
FTFY, Cool Papa Bell.
To all the people in this thread who used anything similar to the phrase "all porn stars", "all porn films", or "all porn"... you live in a very, very tiny, self-made bowl. Nothing else I see in my life is as varied as porn: amazing 3D CG, horrendous semi-plastic humanoid surgery aftereffects inserting fake boners with unconvincing moans, scratchy cellphone-level videos in dimly lit bedrooms of some teen's head bobbing on what may be a dick, super-sex-hungry married couples making a living off their exhibitionism, entrepeneurial fetish specialists who keep their clothes on, ...
Honestly, people, get out more!
posted by IAmBroom at 3:08 PM on January 11, 2010
FTFY, Cool Papa Bell.
To all the people in this thread who used anything similar to the phrase "all porn stars", "all porn films", or "all porn"... you live in a very, very tiny, self-made bowl. Nothing else I see in my life is as varied as porn: amazing 3D CG, horrendous semi-plastic humanoid surgery aftereffects inserting fake boners with unconvincing moans, scratchy cellphone-level videos in dimly lit bedrooms of some teen's head bobbing on what may be a dick, super-sex-hungry married couples making a living off their exhibitionism, entrepeneurial fetish specialists who keep their clothes on, ...
Honestly, people, get out more!
posted by IAmBroom at 3:08 PM on January 11, 2010
Oh, me and my big fat mouth.
First of all, the last line of my post: What else explains a double-penetration, latex-wearing, bondage, spanking and toe-sucking video?
I wasn't suggesting that anyone who liked one of those types of things was a deviate, I was suggesting that a video featuring ALL of those things together might be a bit much.
I personally have some quite off-beat tastes, so power to the people on that one.
I also specifically said that I was making a sweeping generalization about porn desensitizing folks. I believe it, but that doesn't make it true.
I'd love for the government to fund some real, unbiased studies about porn, if for no other reason than to warn folks if there is a danger. (or to forever silence those of us who believe otherwise.)
I also apologize for my hetro-slant. I haven't seen that much gay-porn (I don't really count girl/girl as gay, since it's not really aimed at lesbians) so I'm in no position to comment.
I haven't seen any actual, porn in a few years. Most of what I see is "porn stars" like Jenna Jameson, or people on Dr. Drew's Rehab show.
Take it for what it's worth.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 3:14 PM on January 11, 2010
First of all, the last line of my post: What else explains a double-penetration, latex-wearing, bondage, spanking and toe-sucking video?
I wasn't suggesting that anyone who liked one of those types of things was a deviate, I was suggesting that a video featuring ALL of those things together might be a bit much.
I personally have some quite off-beat tastes, so power to the people on that one.
I also specifically said that I was making a sweeping generalization about porn desensitizing folks. I believe it, but that doesn't make it true.
I'd love for the government to fund some real, unbiased studies about porn, if for no other reason than to warn folks if there is a danger. (or to forever silence those of us who believe otherwise.)
I also apologize for my hetro-slant. I haven't seen that much gay-porn (I don't really count girl/girl as gay, since it's not really aimed at lesbians) so I'm in no position to comment.
I haven't seen any actual, porn in a few years. Most of what I see is "porn stars" like Jenna Jameson, or people on Dr. Drew's Rehab show.
Take it for what it's worth.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 3:14 PM on January 11, 2010
smoke: "Weirdest video-store porn experience was the mum who used to get a stack of 5 weeklies for the special deal, each and every a porno (most people tried to hide theirs between four innocuous movies). That wasn't weird, what was weird was they were very clearly for her 16/17 year old son, who stood behind her each time, gazing at the movie posters or the floor."
When I worked the rental counter at Tower Video, this father and his teenage son (both of whom were covered in really crude gang tattoos) would come in every other day and rent four or five pornos. The one time they rented a non-porn, it was a documentary about Ron Jeremy.
posted by brundlefly at 3:16 PM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
When I worked the rental counter at Tower Video, this father and his teenage son (both of whom were covered in really crude gang tattoos) would come in every other day and rent four or five pornos. The one time they rented a non-porn, it was a documentary about Ron Jeremy.
posted by brundlefly at 3:16 PM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Honestly, people, get out more!
Or spend more time online, as the case may be.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:18 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Or spend more time online, as the case may be.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:18 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Porn is like pizza. When it's good, it's really, really good. When it's bad ... well ... it's still pretty good. Everybody has different preferences, and a few people don't enjoy it at all.
FTFY, Cool Papa Bell.
To all the people in this thread who used anything similar to the phrase "all porn stars", "all porn films", or "all porn"... you live in a very, very tiny, self-made bowl.
TELL ME AGAIN HOW SILLY I AM, IT'S MAKING ME HOT
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:31 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
FTFY, Cool Papa Bell.
To all the people in this thread who used anything similar to the phrase "all porn stars", "all porn films", or "all porn"... you live in a very, very tiny, self-made bowl.
TELL ME AGAIN HOW SILLY I AM, IT'S MAKING ME HOT
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:31 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I dispair of the younger generation, all brought up with images of physical perfection, theirs for the price of a plastic surgeon. I see beautiful young people eyeing their blemishes and imperfections and saving up for just 'one more thing' so that they can be perfect. Or saving up for a tramp-stamp.
I've heard this "porn distorts mens' physical expectations" argument so many times and I don't buy it. Enormous, fake boobs and lips and tramp stamps are the farthest thing from female physical perfection in my opinion, and I suspect I'm not alone. Given the choice between watching a porn starring your typical silicon-augmented bleach blonde porn actress and, say, Natalie Portman, a lot of guys would choose the latter.
I've always thought that that's what most porn actresses look like because it's cheaper to hire somebody of average looks w/ implants and an orange tan than somebody who's actually attractive, not because guys view that as the physical ideal.
posted by pravit at 3:32 PM on January 11, 2010
I've heard this "porn distorts mens' physical expectations" argument so many times and I don't buy it. Enormous, fake boobs and lips and tramp stamps are the farthest thing from female physical perfection in my opinion, and I suspect I'm not alone. Given the choice between watching a porn starring your typical silicon-augmented bleach blonde porn actress and, say, Natalie Portman, a lot of guys would choose the latter.
I've always thought that that's what most porn actresses look like because it's cheaper to hire somebody of average looks w/ implants and an orange tan than somebody who's actually attractive, not because guys view that as the physical ideal.
posted by pravit at 3:32 PM on January 11, 2010
At the risk of being that guy who said everything had been invented, I think we've filmed every possible sexual configuration.
Well, certainly sex has been around a lot longer than the internet or photography. They ancient Greeks recorded nearly every conceivable configuration themselves, though they had to draw it. Even so, it didn't stop people from drawing more. There's nothing new under the sun, but people still want to have sex as well as see others do so, and I don't think this will change regardless of new technology to record it. We'll still record the same positions over and over.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:49 PM on January 11, 2010
Well, certainly sex has been around a lot longer than the internet or photography. They ancient Greeks recorded nearly every conceivable configuration themselves, though they had to draw it. Even so, it didn't stop people from drawing more. There's nothing new under the sun, but people still want to have sex as well as see others do so, and I don't think this will change regardless of new technology to record it. We'll still record the same positions over and over.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:49 PM on January 11, 2010
I dispair of the younger generation, all brought up with images of physical perfection, theirs for the price of a plastic surgeon.
As opposed to our generation, who only had Playboys and their realistic body images.
posted by smackfu at 4:08 PM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
As opposed to our generation, who only had Playboys and their realistic body images.
posted by smackfu at 4:08 PM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
The only people who have realistic body images are fucking voyeurs, who are of course perverted because they're fucking voyeurs, right?
posted by jonmc at 4:32 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 4:32 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
the craft service binges
The only thing more nauseating to imagine than a craft services table is a craft services table at a porn shoot. Flies AND jizz on your bagel!
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:43 PM on January 11, 2010
The only thing more nauseating to imagine than a craft services table is a craft services table at a porn shoot. Flies AND jizz on your bagel!
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:43 PM on January 11, 2010
Actually, Sidhedevil, I work at a place that has been the set for a few movies in the past year. The craft services tables were OK. We got free coffee, donuts and bagels in exchange for protecting the set.
posted by jonmc at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2010
posted by jonmc at 4:50 PM on January 11, 2010
Any port you like sound's kinda cool too though.
"I straddled, I humoured my posture, and did my best in short to buckle to it; I took part of it in too, but still things did not go to his thorough liking: changing then in a trice his system of battery, he leads me to the table and with a master-hand lays my head down on the edge of it, and, with the other canting up my petticoats and shift, bares my naked posteriours to his blind and furious guide; it forces its way between them, and I feeling pretty sensibly that it was not going by the right door, and knocking desperately at the wrong one, I told him of it: -'Pooh!' says he, 'my dear, any port in a storm.'" --- Fanny Hill, or Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasureposted by octobersurprise at 5:47 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is there anyone under the age of 40 who actually pays for porn online? Buying magazines, books, or even films I can understand, but with the digital stuff, I've never been able to see any advantage to paying. There's no shortage of free, usually of equal or better quality, and of pretty much anything you can desire.
posted by Forktine at 6:29 PM on January 11, 2010
posted by Forktine at 6:29 PM on January 11, 2010
I dispair of the younger generation, all brought up with images of physical perfection, theirs for the price of a plastic surgeon.
As opposed to our generation, who only had Playboys and their realistic body images.
Hey, some women were blessed with those physiques, naturally, although I suspect, briefly. Someone had to win the figure lottery. I for damn sure didn't.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:29 PM on January 11, 2010
As opposed to our generation, who only had Playboys and their realistic body images.
Hey, some women were blessed with those physiques, naturally, although I suspect, briefly. Someone had to win the figure lottery. I for damn sure didn't.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:29 PM on January 11, 2010
I dispair of the younger generation, all brought up with images of physical perfection, theirs for the price of a plastic surgeon.
This generation has easy access to more porn with 'regular' people than any at any other time in the history of the world. There's a pornucopia of options out there, and if you aren't aware of it then you must be one of the few people still renting the professional stuff.
posted by graventy at 6:47 PM on January 11, 2010
This generation has easy access to more porn with 'regular' people than any at any other time in the history of the world. There's a pornucopia of options out there, and if you aren't aware of it then you must be one of the few people still renting the professional stuff.
posted by graventy at 6:47 PM on January 11, 2010
Hey, some women were blessed with those physiques, naturally
Apparently you are not familiar with the concept of photo retouching? Playboy photos were heavily altered from the beginning.
Breast augmentations have been widely performed in the US since the 1950s. The idea that cosmetic surgery and photo retouching are new to this generation is ill-informed.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:14 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Apparently you are not familiar with the concept of photo retouching? Playboy photos were heavily altered from the beginning.
Breast augmentations have been widely performed in the US since the 1950s. The idea that cosmetic surgery and photo retouching are new to this generation is ill-informed.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:14 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
More hate on Sasha Gray but props to her agent. She's an uninteresting personality who happens to be capable of shoving large things up her anus. And that's pretty commonplace for porn these days. The whole "I've actually read Sartre" is just such a failed attempt at relevance. Sartre? Really? You could spend a semester in Berkley or New York and find dozens of pro-porn pomo feminists who have actually done some hard thinking (lulz) about issues of gender, misogyny, representations of sex, etc, and who also happen to enjoy getting paid to fuck on camera and who consider themselves feminists of the highest order.
Hell, at least Joanna Angel is genuinely funny at times.
But here I am complaining about the lack of meritocracy in the porn industry. I should probably take a cold shower and go to church.
posted by bardic at 7:57 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hell, at least Joanna Angel is genuinely funny at times.
But here I am complaining about the lack of meritocracy in the porn industry. I should probably take a cold shower and go to church.
posted by bardic at 7:57 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
The whole "I've actually read Sartre" is just such a failed attempt at relevance.
I think I'd rather shove large things up my anus than to wade through L'Être et el néant.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:21 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think I'd rather shove large things up my anus than to wade through L'Être et el néant.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:21 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd love for the government to fund some real, unbiased studies about porn, if for no other reason than to warn folks if there is a danger. (or to forever silence those of us who believe otherwise.)
Well, the first was pretty clearcut, but lacked the element of truthiness (as well as damning the US Government as being the largest producer of child pornography at the time), so the mk II version attempted to correct for this with assumptions not found exclusively in the experimental evidence.
Now the best you can hope for is senate subcommittee hearings on exotic Fermions such as erototoxins and snickering about nature shows.
Basically, not in your lifetime.
posted by quintessencesluglord at 9:38 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, the first was pretty clearcut, but lacked the element of truthiness (as well as damning the US Government as being the largest producer of child pornography at the time), so the mk II version attempted to correct for this with assumptions not found exclusively in the experimental evidence.
Now the best you can hope for is senate subcommittee hearings on exotic Fermions such as erototoxins and snickering about nature shows.
Basically, not in your lifetime.
posted by quintessencesluglord at 9:38 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Most people aren't going to do what porn actors do and if they watch too much porn, there's a feeling of inadequacy and an inability to really appreciate sex as a tool of intimacy.
Porn doesn't create unrealistic people, though unrealistic people may use porn as an excuse. I'm not sure who "they" are, but your assertion that porn magically ruins real sex transcends "sweeping generalization" into something closer to "passing thought of a hypothesis."
Look, there's nothing new under the sun. I've seen stag films from the 20s that were as kinky as anything out there today.
posted by desuetude at 10:13 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Porn doesn't create unrealistic people, though unrealistic people may use porn as an excuse. I'm not sure who "they" are, but your assertion that porn magically ruins real sex transcends "sweeping generalization" into something closer to "passing thought of a hypothesis."
Look, there's nothing new under the sun. I've seen stag films from the 20s that were as kinky as anything out there today.
posted by desuetude at 10:13 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not terribly helpful that the Meese Report ("the mkII version" linked above) was from 4 years before the web was created.
To desuetude's point, I don't think many would argue that porn is new, but, rather, that access to porn is fundamentally different than it was before the internet, and that, perhaps, that access has ramifications (cultural, yes, but I'm dealing more with neurochemical ramifictions, on an individual level) that we don't fully understand yet.*
One quick link to this porn-as-neurochemical-agent point, Measuring Porn's Effects: What About the Users? [probably SFW] (by a psychologist discussing neither morality or religion), which notes:
Or, if you want a more entertaining read, there's renowned academic journal Cracked, which ran "the Great American Porn-Off" [probably NSFW] which offers an easy-to-replicate test: can you go for two weeks without watching porn?
* I don't think food access (pre-20th century vs. post-20th century) is a bad analog. Something in the vein of "Have sex. Not too much. Mostly real."
posted by Alt F4 at 5:10 AM on January 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
To desuetude's point, I don't think many would argue that porn is new, but, rather, that access to porn is fundamentally different than it was before the internet, and that, perhaps, that access has ramifications (cultural, yes, but I'm dealing more with neurochemical ramifictions, on an individual level) that we don't fully understand yet.*
One quick link to this porn-as-neurochemical-agent point, Measuring Porn's Effects: What About the Users? [probably SFW] (by a psychologist discussing neither morality or religion), which notes:
Unfortunately, when it comes to masturbation to sexually explicit materials, our society tends to get lost in debates about free speech, content, sexual repression, and harm to third parties. This veils the important issue of the brain's vulnerable reward circuitry. This part of the brain evolved to value highly not only novelty-on-demand, but also the genetic bonanza of sex with a novel partner. Therefore, today's supranormal sexual stimuli, which offer new partners moaning for ejaculate at each click of a mouse, register as so beneficial that the brain easily rewires itself to focus more and more attention on such "valuable" experiences.There's more to that piece ... I'd be interested in your thoughts on it.
Or, if you want a more entertaining read, there's renowned academic journal Cracked, which ran "the Great American Porn-Off" [probably NSFW] which offers an easy-to-replicate test: can you go for two weeks without watching porn?
Many participants immediately treated it as an addiction.It's a hilarious piece, and worth considering (despite its source and obvious anecdotal nature), if for the very fact that it's as far from preachy moralizing as you can get, and yet it still concludes that contemporary access to porn might be damaging to the way that guys interact with the world.
The participants were not strangers to me and were largely people I "know" in an online sense. And while I had heard lots of jokes over time about being alcoholics or hoplessly fat or hopelessly poor, I had never, ever heard any of them talk about being porn addicts.
Until we did the study.
From the first hours on, lots of these guys were suddenly talking about "withdrawal" and talking about how tomorrow was going to be a "tough day" with time alone and high-speed access. They were using the language recovering addicts use, which I admit both surprised me and creeped me out a little.
I don't want to be melodramatic here. Nobody had to be rushed to detox for emergency nipple infusions. The point is they immediately treated it like a task, something that would require actual effort and planning and that would ultimately meet with failure.
* I don't think food access (pre-20th century vs. post-20th century) is a bad analog. Something in the vein of "Have sex. Not too much. Mostly real."
posted by Alt F4 at 5:10 AM on January 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
What's with all the sockpuppets in this thread? Are people actually embarassed to admit they like pornography? Look, even mathowie is doing it in the first 5 comments!
I AM TEHLOKI AND I LIKE ME SOME NAKED LADIES
posted by tehloki at 5:58 AM on January 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
I AM TEHLOKI AND I LIKE ME SOME NAKED LADIES
posted by tehloki at 5:58 AM on January 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Breast augmentations have been widely performed in the US since the 1950s. The idea that cosmetic surgery and photo retouching are new to this generation is ill-informed."
While true, many of the earliest bunnies where well out of their teens and into their mid-twenties (when some women experience a secondary increase in bust size) and were often pregnant.
Especially in the early issues, the center-fold models were often pictures purchased through modelling agents, and those agents had a lot of pregnant women in their photo collections because they would often have naturally large breasts.
Likewise, many of the models in the girlie magazines in those early days were completely natural.
As a cultural artefact, the Playboy centerfold book is quite fascinating, if only to see how tastes and mores have changes over the years.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:25 AM on January 12, 2010
While true, many of the earliest bunnies where well out of their teens and into their mid-twenties (when some women experience a secondary increase in bust size) and were often pregnant.
Especially in the early issues, the center-fold models were often pictures purchased through modelling agents, and those agents had a lot of pregnant women in their photo collections because they would often have naturally large breasts.
Likewise, many of the models in the girlie magazines in those early days were completely natural.
As a cultural artefact, the Playboy centerfold book is quite fascinating, if only to see how tastes and mores have changes over the years.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:25 AM on January 12, 2010
I guess I kind of have an inside angle on this. I make beer money drawing kinky fetish art under a different name; there's an Illustrator window open at this very moment with a fat skunk-girl in rubber, eating cake and touching herself. It needs to have more food drawn in the background.
I have several friends who do this kind of thing as well. One of them is doing enough of it that I think it's how he pays his share of the rent.
None of us are serving the 'normal' market. We're catering to kinks, we're catering to freaks. We're having a good time doing it because we've established reputations for drawing the kinds of kinks we love, and have gathered various overlapping circles of commissioners who bring their own crazy spins to the impossible fantasy porn we love to do. Captured by weird music and turned into a harem serpent-girl? Cool! Elaborate petplay costumes? Awesome! Consensual tentacle sex? Hell yeah!
I'm not part of "The Porn Industry" and I don't want to be. I've never found its output to be pleasing, not once I started actually seeing naked humans on a regular basis. But I draw porn for people who find the Porn Industry as alienating and off-putting as I do. Dying? It's been dead to me for years.
(Oh, and then there's the dirty comic I draw under this name, too - not the silly drunken alias. I need to get back to work on chapter 2.)
posted by egypturnash at 6:59 AM on January 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
I have several friends who do this kind of thing as well. One of them is doing enough of it that I think it's how he pays his share of the rent.
None of us are serving the 'normal' market. We're catering to kinks, we're catering to freaks. We're having a good time doing it because we've established reputations for drawing the kinds of kinks we love, and have gathered various overlapping circles of commissioners who bring their own crazy spins to the impossible fantasy porn we love to do. Captured by weird music and turned into a harem serpent-girl? Cool! Elaborate petplay costumes? Awesome! Consensual tentacle sex? Hell yeah!
I'm not part of "The Porn Industry" and I don't want to be. I've never found its output to be pleasing, not once I started actually seeing naked humans on a regular basis. But I draw porn for people who find the Porn Industry as alienating and off-putting as I do. Dying? It's been dead to me for years.
(Oh, and then there's the dirty comic I draw under this name, too - not the silly drunken alias. I need to get back to work on chapter 2.)
posted by egypturnash at 6:59 AM on January 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
—And then when I finish a piece, I don't just give it to the commissioner. I post it online for any and all to see. Where it operates as both advertisement and as free entertainment; there are people who I know will never pay me to draw stuff who love looking at it.
I guess I'm one of those "amateurs" competing directly with the "industry", aren't I? But in an oblique niche rather than "we filmed ourselves fucking".
Which we have thought of doing, as well.
posted by egypturnash at 7:03 AM on January 12, 2010
I guess I'm one of those "amateurs" competing directly with the "industry", aren't I? But in an oblique niche rather than "we filmed ourselves fucking".
Which we have thought of doing, as well.
posted by egypturnash at 7:03 AM on January 12, 2010
Enormous, fake boobs and lips.
I have a little trouble taking seriously anything said after this. When I was a kid, this was certainly an accurate description of porn. Even the “girl next door” stuff featured girls who looked like this. They just wore plaid.
Today’s online “stars” (ie: more likely to have their own sites, or a major part of one, rather than semi-anonymous photoshoots sold to some mega-site) are much more likely to look like the aforementioned Portman than the archtype of "porn star" still (it appears) used as currency on daytime talk shows. As others have noted, every kind of ethnicity, style, kink, is available. The augmented beach blonde is still there, but is now just one look of many, and to my eye, a bit marginalized for its former monopoly.
I don't get why porn isn't evergreen content
See comments above. Unless you like that stuff, I guess. Seriously, if you can sit down and watch some 80’s porn and say “I can’t see why they bothered to make any more after this”, then I’m not sure what to tell you. I have a few friends who enjoy anything committed to film, but they still know and appreciate the difference between B-horror movies and quality work. This evergreen line reminds me of the few “any rotgut will do” members who show up in any online discussion of alcohol. Ok, we get it, big guy. Anything that does the job. You know what, though? Bad pizza sucks. Poses contrary are a little tiresome at this point.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:01 AM on January 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a little trouble taking seriously anything said after this. When I was a kid, this was certainly an accurate description of porn. Even the “girl next door” stuff featured girls who looked like this. They just wore plaid.
Today’s online “stars” (ie: more likely to have their own sites, or a major part of one, rather than semi-anonymous photoshoots sold to some mega-site) are much more likely to look like the aforementioned Portman than the archtype of "porn star" still (it appears) used as currency on daytime talk shows. As others have noted, every kind of ethnicity, style, kink, is available. The augmented beach blonde is still there, but is now just one look of many, and to my eye, a bit marginalized for its former monopoly.
I don't get why porn isn't evergreen content
See comments above. Unless you like that stuff, I guess. Seriously, if you can sit down and watch some 80’s porn and say “I can’t see why they bothered to make any more after this”, then I’m not sure what to tell you. I have a few friends who enjoy anything committed to film, but they still know and appreciate the difference between B-horror movies and quality work. This evergreen line reminds me of the few “any rotgut will do” members who show up in any online discussion of alcohol. Ok, we get it, big guy. Anything that does the job. You know what, though? Bad pizza sucks. Poses contrary are a little tiresome at this point.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:01 AM on January 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
The whole "I've actually read Sartre" is just such a failed attempt at relevance.
And she plays in a noise rock band! She's "underground!" She cites Lustmord and Skinny Puppy! I guess that's supposed to make her seem more accessible to guys with big record collections.
The only thing more nauseating to imagine than a craft services table is a craft services table at a porn shoot. Flies AND jizz on your bagel!
From what I understand from talking to extras, porn shoots are the best, because they have better craft services tables than regular movies and you get paid under the table (ha!) in cash. Of course, this was over 10 years ago and for fairly high budget porn where the sex scenes were actually shot on different sets than the "story" scenes, so I imagine things are a lot different now.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2010
And she plays in a noise rock band! She's "underground!" She cites Lustmord and Skinny Puppy! I guess that's supposed to make her seem more accessible to guys with big record collections.
The only thing more nauseating to imagine than a craft services table is a craft services table at a porn shoot. Flies AND jizz on your bagel!
From what I understand from talking to extras, porn shoots are the best, because they have better craft services tables than regular movies and you get paid under the table (ha!) in cash. Of course, this was over 10 years ago and for fairly high budget porn where the sex scenes were actually shot on different sets than the "story" scenes, so I imagine things are a lot different now.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2010
Ok, we get it, big guy. Anything that does the job.
Easy now. I also don't know why PBS commissioned yet another adaptation of Emma. There are a lot of legitimate answers to the question - that doesn't mean it can't be asked.
posted by GuyZero at 9:51 AM on January 12, 2010
Easy now. I also don't know why PBS commissioned yet another adaptation of Emma. There are a lot of legitimate answers to the question - that doesn't mean it can't be asked.
posted by GuyZero at 9:51 AM on January 12, 2010
Tone deaf on my part, then. I didn't think that question would be seriously asked given the changes to the scene in the last... yikes, 30 years. I'm having a difficult time imagining one of yesteryear's siliconed, sprayed-up and tanned-down mainstream porn stars "as titillating" as much of what's available now. But maybe that just means it suits me better. I see far more Bailey Quarters out there now and all there was growing up was Jennifer Marlowe, if you know what I mean. "# permutations recorded" is not really the point.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:41 AM on January 12, 2010
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:41 AM on January 12, 2010
Most porn is god-awful crap. Ninety-nine percent of it can be summed up like this:
Shaky premise where male and female meet (pizza delivery, heating/AC repair, auto repair).
posted by KevinSkomsvold
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
posted by Ruthless Bunny
Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone that's done even a cursory glance at porn freely available today can make these type comments.
As someone already said, there's far more variety out there today than ever before. The whole pizza delivery/ AC repair / Auto repair premise is almost extinct and has been for a while. And when you find it it's more of a joking homage to old style porn than anything else.
And the whole fake boobs , bleached neather parts is also way off the mark. Far more porn today involves just average looking girls, or over weight soccer moms, or 'insert type here'.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 5:36 PM on January 12, 2010
Shaky premise where male and female meet (pizza delivery, heating/AC repair, auto repair).
posted by KevinSkomsvold
Let's face it, today's porn actors are all of a physical type. Enormous, fake boobs and lips. Bleached neather parts, all kinds of crazy stuff. You better hope that you like that sort of thing because that's about all you're going to see.
posted by Ruthless Bunny
Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone that's done even a cursory glance at porn freely available today can make these type comments.
As someone already said, there's far more variety out there today than ever before. The whole pizza delivery/ AC repair / Auto repair premise is almost extinct and has been for a while. And when you find it it's more of a joking homage to old style porn than anything else.
And the whole fake boobs , bleached neather parts is also way off the mark. Far more porn today involves just average looking girls, or over weight soccer moms, or 'insert type here'.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 5:36 PM on January 12, 2010
Dennis Murphy: "As someone already said, there's far more variety out there today than ever before. The whole pizza delivery/ AC repair / Auto repair premise is almost extinct and has been for a while. And when you find it it's more of a joking homage to old style porn than anything else."
Of course there is more variety. I can modify my original statement to say that 99% of readily available porn is crap. If you're looking for variety, surely there's a glove for every hand, so to speak. But for the average male wanting to simply rub one out and move on with his day, I stand by my original statement.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 5:09 AM on January 13, 2010
Of course there is more variety. I can modify my original statement to say that 99% of readily available porn is crap. If you're looking for variety, surely there's a glove for every hand, so to speak. But for the average male wanting to simply rub one out and move on with his day, I stand by my original statement.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 5:09 AM on January 13, 2010
Even if I agreed with the 99%, that's still better than 100% which was the case before the internet.
posted by smackfu at 7:21 AM on January 13, 2010
posted by smackfu at 7:21 AM on January 13, 2010
While true, many of the earliest bunnies where well out of their teens and into their mid-twenties (when some women experience a secondary increase in bust size) and were often pregnant.
Especially in the early issues, the center-fold models were often pictures purchased through modelling agents, and those agents had a lot of pregnant women in their photo collections because they would often have naturally large breasts.
clvrmnky: fascinating and plausible claim. Citation?
posted by IAmBroom at 10:42 AM on January 15, 2010
Especially in the early issues, the center-fold models were often pictures purchased through modelling agents, and those agents had a lot of pregnant women in their photo collections because they would often have naturally large breasts.
clvrmnky: fascinating and plausible claim. Citation?
posted by IAmBroom at 10:42 AM on January 15, 2010
You can look for the linea negra on Playboy centerfolds and will find it (on some) if you're looking in issues from the '80's. Why I knew that as a teenage boy I have no idea.
posted by GuyZero at 11:13 AM on January 15, 2010
posted by GuyZero at 11:13 AM on January 15, 2010
@ImBroom: I'm a fan of classic pinup photography, and this is a common refrain by photographers from that era.
For example, some of the comments by the art directors and photographers in the hardcover Playboy centerfold collection mention it in the comments.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:11 PM on January 15, 2010
For example, some of the comments by the art directors and photographers in the hardcover Playboy centerfold collection mention it in the comments.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:11 PM on January 15, 2010
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