The Grateful Dead's influence on the business world
March 11, 2010 3:45 AM Subscribe
The Grateful Dead is officially history: they're the subject of a new exhibit at the New York Historical Society. Ironically, though, it's the Dead’s influence on the business world that may turn out to be one of the most significant parts of its legacy. Without intending to—while intending, in fact, to do just the opposite—the band pioneered ideas and practices that were subsequently embraced by corporate America. Management Secrets of the Grateful Dead.
Grateful Dead Archive Project Manager Check that salary.
posted by fixedgear at 4:13 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by fixedgear at 4:13 AM on March 11, 2010
Is hiring keyboard players who auto destruct a management secret of the Grateful Dead?
posted by bukvich at 4:21 AM on March 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by bukvich at 4:21 AM on March 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
And now I'm off to search for any online traces of the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs. that's gotta be some good reading.
It has, in my experience, been only a disappointment. However, my experience is limited to a mere to issues, and I had to scrounge damn hard for permission to photocopy them whilst on interlibrary loan.
I've always regretted that I never got to see the Grateful Dead. I was born too late and them too soon I guess.
Still, it's more like a cult than a business model.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 4:24 AM on March 11, 2010
It has, in my experience, been only a disappointment. However, my experience is limited to a mere to issues, and I had to scrounge damn hard for permission to photocopy them whilst on interlibrary loan.
I've always regretted that I never got to see the Grateful Dead. I was born too late and them too soon I guess.
Still, it's more like a cult than a business model.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 4:24 AM on March 11, 2010
to as in 2
posted by solipsophistocracy at 4:25 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by solipsophistocracy at 4:25 AM on March 11, 2010
I've always regretted that I never got to see the Grateful Dead.
Saw 'em three times in the mid-seventies, most enjoyable.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:27 AM on March 11, 2010
Saw 'em three times in the mid-seventies, most enjoyable.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:27 AM on March 11, 2010
The fact that they let their music be shared and didn't try to crack down on tapers was the biggest part of their success. Basically it meant that the band didn't even have to release albums for years since the fans were doing it for them. All those tapes were a giant marketing engine for their tours and they got that for free just by not being dicks about sharing.
posted by octothorpe at 4:28 AM on March 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:28 AM on March 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
Still, it's more like a cult than a business model.
Well, you could argue (and I'm sure that some have) that a cult is a business model.
posted by octothorpe at 4:30 AM on March 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
Well, you could argue (and I'm sure that some have) that a cult is a business model.
posted by octothorpe at 4:30 AM on March 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
I was struggling with this, because I stand embarrassed before future generations, who will be aware of the huge fuss we make of the Grateful Dead, and who will hasten to listen to their music, all full of eagerness to enjoy this wondrous group, the object of so much interest and veneration in our time, and whose naive enthusiasm and laudable wish to enjoy the art of their foreparents will be stunned by the sheer awfulness of the music itself, and the incredible amount of it our generation saw fit to record and preserve.
Our progeny will patronize us as the simple-minded people of a simpler-minded time, as we do our forefathers for their enthusiasm for Shirley Temple, skeeball, sentimental melodrama, samplers, Zouave uniforms, Sir Walter Scott, volunteer fire departments, Lawrence Welk, basement rec rooms, "Dallas", long-winded Fourth of July speeches, and other cultural expressions that now seem to us utterly vacuous and without interest.
When you think of the incredible cultural output of the 1960s, and how many powerfully expressive and creative groups and individuals recorded and toured in those years -- even if you isolate only San Francisco bands of the late 1960s -- the fact that out of them all, the one group that is least worthy of being remembered for its music, should be surrounded by so much art, scholarship and community, is an irony that in itself is worthy of a museum exhibition, in that it demonstrates with crystal clarity how often it is that a generation ignores merit in favor of its own least distinguished creations.
Then I think again, and realize that the utter banality, the stupendous boredom-inducing vacancy of the Grateful Dead's music, has at least this one virtue for future generations, in that they will take one listen and be able quickly to dismiss it, and unlike us, waste no moment of their precious lives on one pointless guitar solo more than they need to and will move on to appreciate the things about the Grateful Dead that are indeed worth remembering: The Fillmore and Avalon posters, the photographs, the performers they were associated with, the cultural events they were involved in, the unique community that sprang up around their tours and concerts, and finally their example in demonstrating in the strongest and most convincing fashion, the fact that drugs do not make you more creative or interesting.
posted by Faze at 4:41 AM on March 11, 2010 [14 favorites]
Our progeny will patronize us as the simple-minded people of a simpler-minded time, as we do our forefathers for their enthusiasm for Shirley Temple, skeeball, sentimental melodrama, samplers, Zouave uniforms, Sir Walter Scott, volunteer fire departments, Lawrence Welk, basement rec rooms, "Dallas", long-winded Fourth of July speeches, and other cultural expressions that now seem to us utterly vacuous and without interest.
When you think of the incredible cultural output of the 1960s, and how many powerfully expressive and creative groups and individuals recorded and toured in those years -- even if you isolate only San Francisco bands of the late 1960s -- the fact that out of them all, the one group that is least worthy of being remembered for its music, should be surrounded by so much art, scholarship and community, is an irony that in itself is worthy of a museum exhibition, in that it demonstrates with crystal clarity how often it is that a generation ignores merit in favor of its own least distinguished creations.
Then I think again, and realize that the utter banality, the stupendous boredom-inducing vacancy of the Grateful Dead's music, has at least this one virtue for future generations, in that they will take one listen and be able quickly to dismiss it, and unlike us, waste no moment of their precious lives on one pointless guitar solo more than they need to and will move on to appreciate the things about the Grateful Dead that are indeed worth remembering: The Fillmore and Avalon posters, the photographs, the performers they were associated with, the cultural events they were involved in, the unique community that sprang up around their tours and concerts, and finally their example in demonstrating in the strongest and most convincing fashion, the fact that drugs do not make you more creative or interesting.
posted by Faze at 4:41 AM on March 11, 2010 [14 favorites]
Yeah, but I still prefer Grayfolded to Arc.
posted by box at 4:48 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 4:48 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Nice, it's only took ten comments to get to 'your favorite band sucks.' Keep up the good work, MetaFilter!
posted by fixedgear at 4:51 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by fixedgear at 4:51 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
the utter banality, the stupendous boredom-inducing vacancy of the Grateful Dead's music
Well, Wharf Rat ain't such a bad tune.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:56 AM on March 11, 2010
Well, Wharf Rat ain't such a bad tune.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:56 AM on March 11, 2010
Tell you, though, they lost half the band when Pigpen died.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:58 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:58 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is interesting because, if you've read a few GD bios, you know that they, Garcia especially, were terrible business managers. From Mickey Hart's father acting as manager and then fleecing them in the early '70s, their near-bankruptcy in the mid-70s and fateful Giza performances in '78 that were supposed to be totally monetized but was a huge disaster, to the insane bureaucratic bloat that grew around them in the late '80s and basically forced GD to tour until Garcia died.
Even if, as business managers, they squandered a million microdots of opportunities, it's clear that they knew how to keep their fans happy and how to create an atmosphere that made their concerts more events than mere shows; for that, their business model deserves attention.
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 5:05 AM on March 11, 2010
Even if, as business managers, they squandered a million microdots of opportunities, it's clear that they knew how to keep their fans happy and how to create an atmosphere that made their concerts more events than mere shows; for that, their business model deserves attention.
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 5:05 AM on March 11, 2010
Then I think again, and realize that the utter banality, the stupendous boredom-inducing vacancy of the Grateful Dead's music,
Banal if you were not tripping on two hits of windowpane, utterly sublime and fantastic if you were.
Or so I have been told. Ahem.
posted by three blind mice at 5:12 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Banal if you were not tripping on two hits of windowpane, utterly sublime and fantastic if you were.
Or so I have been told. Ahem.
posted by three blind mice at 5:12 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Management Secrets of the Greateful Dead" sounds like the sort of crumbum fad book my boss would
1. add to his shelf
2. send out emails about for the first week after he'd read it
3. have chipper, diversionary chats about during meetings
4. utterly fail to glean any useful information from
posted by clarknova at 5:26 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
1. add to his shelf
2. send out emails about for the first week after he'd read it
3. have chipper, diversionary chats about during meetings
4. utterly fail to glean any useful information from
posted by clarknova at 5:26 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Banal if you were not tripping on two hits of windowpane, utterly sublime and fantastic if you were.
You do realize that on two hits of "windowpane" you can get the same effect from carpet, right?
posted by clarknova at 5:29 AM on March 11, 2010
You do realize that on two hits of "windowpane" you can get the same effect from carpet, right?
posted by clarknova at 5:29 AM on March 11, 2010
I've got grilled cheese sandwiches I'll trade for a ticket.
posted by mattholomew at 5:36 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by mattholomew at 5:36 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Management Secrets of the Greateful Dead" sounds like the sort of crumbum fad book...
Who Dosed My Chese? LOL, amirite?
posted by fixedgear at 5:42 AM on March 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Who Dosed My Chese? LOL, amirite?
posted by fixedgear at 5:42 AM on March 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
the performers they were associated with
While Faze is worrying about the children, I'm worrying about these otherwise worthwhile performers who chose to associate themselves with the Dead. What were they doing, embracing their inner banality? It's just sad that their place in cultural history may have been compromised because they didn't have the musical judgment that Faze could have provided.
posted by Killick at 5:59 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
While Faze is worrying about the children, I'm worrying about these otherwise worthwhile performers who chose to associate themselves with the Dead. What were they doing, embracing their inner banality? It's just sad that their place in cultural history may have been compromised because they didn't have the musical judgment that Faze could have provided.
posted by Killick at 5:59 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Faze's got an invalid haircut
It hurts when he smiles
He better get out of town
Before his nickname expires
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 6:11 AM on March 11, 2010
It hurts when he smiles
He better get out of town
Before his nickname expires
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 6:11 AM on March 11, 2010
Faze: "
Then I think again, and realize that the utter banality, the stupendous boredom-inducing vacancy of the Grateful Dead's music, has at least this one virtue for future generations, in that they will take one listen and be able quickly to dismiss it, ..."
You know, I used to think this. Then I got into bluegrass, and was forced to listen to American Beauty in its entirety on a road trip.
Holy crap.
I guess all the noodley stuff will be written off as ultra-fannish. But the studio albums, man, they're great.
posted by notsnot at 6:11 AM on March 11, 2010
Then I think again, and realize that the utter banality, the stupendous boredom-inducing vacancy of the Grateful Dead's music, has at least this one virtue for future generations, in that they will take one listen and be able quickly to dismiss it, ..."
You know, I used to think this. Then I got into bluegrass, and was forced to listen to American Beauty in its entirety on a road trip.
Holy crap.
I guess all the noodley stuff will be written off as ultra-fannish. But the studio albums, man, they're great.
posted by notsnot at 6:11 AM on March 11, 2010
Management Secrets of the Greateful Dead, TOC
Techniques for Motivating Crunchy Professionals
1. Participative Management | If They Ain't Groovin', They Ain't Workin'
Techniques for Motivating Crunchy Professionals
1. Participative Management | If They Ain't Groovin', They Ain't Workin'
- a. Style of Management: The Wall of Sound Business Practice
b. A More Open Way to Manage: A Drums->Space Perspective
c. Positive and Negative Aspects: TRICK CHAPTER-- NEGATIVE ASPECTS ONLY EXIST IF YOU PERCEIVE THAT THEY EXIST
Deadheads favored LSD, Zeppelin fans alcohol.
Maybe that explains why Led Zeppelin's music was so much better. (Exhibit A)
posted by Joe Beese at 6:27 AM on March 11, 2010
Maybe that explains why Led Zeppelin's music was so much better. (Exhibit A)
posted by Joe Beese at 6:27 AM on March 11, 2010
I know next to nothing about the Grateful Dead, this article was a hoot, thanks!
posted by Vindaloo at 6:30 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by Vindaloo at 6:30 AM on March 11, 2010
NEWS FLASH: Boomers with undiagnosed sense of entitlement mistake nostalgia for significance.
Mid-level managers ride Harley-Davidsons, too.
they look so precious, out every weekend, dressed up in their little leather playsuits
posted by Rat Spatula at 6:44 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mid-level managers ride Harley-Davidsons, too.
they look so precious, out every weekend, dressed up in their little leather playsuits
posted by Rat Spatula at 6:44 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am one of a handful of Grateful Dead fans who likes their recordings way more than their live shows. American Beauty and Aoxomoxoa are, like, two of my favorite albums by anyone. But as for their live shows (twice in maybe 1989), I just remember thinking "Jesus. How can they fuck up Not Fade Away so bad? They turned a quick, passionate, two-chord, Bo-Diddley-beat rocker into a tedious nine-minute off-key dirge. They even played their own songs poorly. Songs that they'd been rehearsing, as a group, for decades.
My Deadheadier Than I friends all told me that I wasn't on enough drugs, and that Jerry was just having a couple of bad nights. But geez, tickets were $25 and I gotta buy drugs too? Just to compensate for the fact that Jerry was on too much drugs?
So yeah, I get a lot better experience out of putting Workingman's Dead on the stereo and sitting down with a nice cup of coffee.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:46 AM on March 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
My Deadheadier Than I friends all told me that I wasn't on enough drugs, and that Jerry was just having a couple of bad nights. But geez, tickets were $25 and I gotta buy drugs too? Just to compensate for the fact that Jerry was on too much drugs?
So yeah, I get a lot better experience out of putting Workingman's Dead on the stereo and sitting down with a nice cup of coffee.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:46 AM on March 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
I guess all the noodley stuff will be written off as ultra-fannish. But the studio albums, man, they're great.
I'd largely agree with this. The "noodley stuff", yeah, you hadda be there. It was the whole experience. The being high. The people around you. All too often, the ecstatic music from last night's dead reverie doesn't hold up under the light of the following day. But of course, it didn't happen the following day. It happened last night, when you were high, and when everyone was there and a part of it, and digging it. And there's not a damn thing wrong with that.
And yes, American Beauty (and even more so for me, Workingman's Dead) are chock full of fine tunes, lovingly crafted in the studio. And those guys just absolutely could not sing that well live, on stage. I mean, really, their vocals were pretty much a disaster, live.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:47 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd largely agree with this. The "noodley stuff", yeah, you hadda be there. It was the whole experience. The being high. The people around you. All too often, the ecstatic music from last night's dead reverie doesn't hold up under the light of the following day. But of course, it didn't happen the following day. It happened last night, when you were high, and when everyone was there and a part of it, and digging it. And there's not a damn thing wrong with that.
And yes, American Beauty (and even more so for me, Workingman's Dead) are chock full of fine tunes, lovingly crafted in the studio. And those guys just absolutely could not sing that well live, on stage. I mean, really, their vocals were pretty much a disaster, live.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:47 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
But geez, tickets were $25 and I gotta buy drugs too? Just to compensate for the fact that Jerry was on too much drugs?
Duh. How else can you enjoy a concert?
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 6:50 AM on March 11, 2010
Duh. How else can you enjoy a concert?
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 6:50 AM on March 11, 2010
There's a job open at UC Santa Cruz for a Grateful Dead archivist!
posted by mareli at 6:53 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by mareli at 6:53 AM on March 11, 2010
Oops, should have checked above more carefully! One of the best concerts I ever went to was at the Family Dog in early 1970. It was the Dead, the Airplane, and Santana, and they jammed. I think it was supposed to be some PBS special but who had tvs back then...
posted by mareli at 6:56 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by mareli at 6:56 AM on March 11, 2010
Faze, do ">Zouave uniforms really belong on your list? Dismiss the Grateful Dead all you like, but those uniforms! The pants alone are worth an FPP!
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:04 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:04 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Duh. How else can you enjoy a concert?
By spending $5.00 for the ticket and having twenty bucks left over for the drugs. That's a nice size dime-bag, a hit of blotter, and a six-pack of beer in 1989 drug-dollars.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:20 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
By spending $5.00 for the ticket and having twenty bucks left over for the drugs. That's a nice size dime-bag, a hit of blotter, and a six-pack of beer in 1989 drug-dollars.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:20 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Our progeny will patronize us as the simple-minded people of a simpler-minded time, as we do our forefathers for their enthusiasm for Shirley Temple, skeeball, sentimental melodrama, samplers, Zouave uniforms, Sir Walter Scott, volunteer fire departments, Lawrence Welk, basement rec rooms, "Dallas", long-winded Fourth of July speeches, and other cultural expressions that now seem to us utterly vacuous and without interest.
Dude, you're a nutcase. Zouave uniforms are awesome.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:44 AM on March 11, 2010
Dude, you're a nutcase. Zouave uniforms are awesome.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:44 AM on March 11, 2010
When you think of the incredible cultural output of the 1960s, and how many powerfully expressive and creative groups and individuals recorded and toured in those years -- even if you isolate only San Francisco bands of the late 1960s -- the fact that out of them all, the one group that is least worthy of being remembered for its music, should be surrounded by so much art, scholarship and community, is an irony that in itself is worthy of a museum exhibition
I have a very hard time believing that most any stray cultural artifact from the overtrawled 1960s, whether it's Jimi Hendrix, the Monkees, or Strawberry Alarm Clock, is especially starved for cultural attention at this point in time. The Thirteenth Floor Elevators alone have a Wikipedia entry that is almost 3500 words long.
posted by blucevalo at 7:48 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a very hard time believing that most any stray cultural artifact from the overtrawled 1960s, whether it's Jimi Hendrix, the Monkees, or Strawberry Alarm Clock, is especially starved for cultural attention at this point in time. The Thirteenth Floor Elevators alone have a Wikipedia entry that is almost 3500 words long.
posted by blucevalo at 7:48 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Interesting articles. I saw the Dead about 50+ times from 1989-1995. It always struck me how 'under the radar' they were and how they flourished there. No other pop culture phenomena has ever reached such a massive cult status - it's absolutely business-case-study worthy.
I had a huge collection of tapes that I traded with other Deadheads - actually, my friend David Lemieux in Ottawa who I worked with as a bike courier in the early 90's had the best collection I had ever seen. He eventually got the job as 'The Vault Guy' with the Grateful Dead after Dick (of "Dicks Picks") died. I remember getting new tapes felt like Christmas - free music! It was the early days of file sharing, but like someone stated above: no one was a dick about it. The rules were simple: (yes, there were unwritten rules about sharing Dead tapes) share with everyone but don't ever let money enter the equation. I remember sending people "B&P's" - blanks (tapes) and postage in the mail.
It was also quite a chore to get mail-order tickets. The demand was so high that the Dead ticketing office (they did their own ticketing too!) made people adhere to a very specific way of mailing-in your requests. It had to be on a specifically-sized recipe card and written in a certain order etc.... if any part of your request was wrong you were denied unceremoniously. Then you were stuck with Ticketbastard.
New bands should take lessons from the Dead's unusual model. Embrace bootlegging!
posted by weezy at 7:52 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I had a huge collection of tapes that I traded with other Deadheads - actually, my friend David Lemieux in Ottawa who I worked with as a bike courier in the early 90's had the best collection I had ever seen. He eventually got the job as 'The Vault Guy' with the Grateful Dead after Dick (of "Dicks Picks") died. I remember getting new tapes felt like Christmas - free music! It was the early days of file sharing, but like someone stated above: no one was a dick about it. The rules were simple: (yes, there were unwritten rules about sharing Dead tapes) share with everyone but don't ever let money enter the equation. I remember sending people "B&P's" - blanks (tapes) and postage in the mail.
It was also quite a chore to get mail-order tickets. The demand was so high that the Dead ticketing office (they did their own ticketing too!) made people adhere to a very specific way of mailing-in your requests. It had to be on a specifically-sized recipe card and written in a certain order etc.... if any part of your request was wrong you were denied unceremoniously. Then you were stuck with Ticketbastard.
New bands should take lessons from the Dead's unusual model. Embrace bootlegging!
posted by weezy at 7:52 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
My favorite Dead moment (I saw 21 of their shows, first one in 1969, as far as I can reckon):
Autzen Stadium, Eugene. The open with Jack Straw (which is probably my fave song of theirs).
It's going OK. Opening songs by them are usually not that scintillating but this one is fair. During the second verse, Weir's guitar goes dead. . .he's singing and also trying to figure out why the fuck he can't hear his guitar. Getting more and more distracted and agitated. During the instrumental break in the middle, he runs backstage, and his tech has a new guitar for him, working and ready to go. All he has to do is put it on and go back out there.
But instead he smashes the not-working one, over and over, on top of a gear case back there. He's pissed and he's just ruining this beautiful guitar. Finally he's restrained, and after a LONG instrumental break, he's strapped to a new guitar and goes out and finishes the song.
Towards the end, the band would step offstage and go immediately to these big vans and be driven out of the venue before the cheering stopped. An aide would had Garcia an aluminum briefcase, which presumably contained his smack and kit. It looked like workers coming off a shift and getting the hell out of the factory as soon as they were able.
A number of thing wrong with this picture. . .I am not going to defend this band, and they deserve all the derision and parody that is out there, aimed at them. And I was straight for the majority of the shows I went to (not all), and there were moments when the room (or stadium) just lifted off the ground.
posted by Danf at 7:58 AM on March 11, 2010
Autzen Stadium, Eugene. The open with Jack Straw (which is probably my fave song of theirs).
It's going OK. Opening songs by them are usually not that scintillating but this one is fair. During the second verse, Weir's guitar goes dead. . .he's singing and also trying to figure out why the fuck he can't hear his guitar. Getting more and more distracted and agitated. During the instrumental break in the middle, he runs backstage, and his tech has a new guitar for him, working and ready to go. All he has to do is put it on and go back out there.
But instead he smashes the not-working one, over and over, on top of a gear case back there. He's pissed and he's just ruining this beautiful guitar. Finally he's restrained, and after a LONG instrumental break, he's strapped to a new guitar and goes out and finishes the song.
Towards the end, the band would step offstage and go immediately to these big vans and be driven out of the venue before the cheering stopped. An aide would had Garcia an aluminum briefcase, which presumably contained his smack and kit. It looked like workers coming off a shift and getting the hell out of the factory as soon as they were able.
A number of thing wrong with this picture. . .I am not going to defend this band, and they deserve all the derision and parody that is out there, aimed at them. And I was straight for the majority of the shows I went to (not all), and there were moments when the room (or stadium) just lifted off the ground.
posted by Danf at 7:58 AM on March 11, 2010
this clip always makes me smile, its a 1972 Big Railroad Blues recorded for some European television
And I think the article is right, I now feel the same way about Mefites that I did, and still do, to deadheads. (Yes you can crash on my carpet, no, you can't borrow any money)
posted by rakish_yet_centered at 8:09 AM on March 11, 2010
And I think the article is right, I now feel the same way about Mefites that I did, and still do, to deadheads. (Yes you can crash on my carpet, no, you can't borrow any money)
posted by rakish_yet_centered at 8:09 AM on March 11, 2010
My original (early 70s) impression of the Grateful Dead: Boy, Jerry Garcia gets to play an awful lot. Nothing in the intervening decades has caused me to change my mind. YMMV.
posted by tommasz at 8:10 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by tommasz at 8:10 AM on March 11, 2010
God, we have the same dull conversation every time the Dead are mentioned. For bonus credit, let's bring up Phish and the way their fans pioneered online communities and trading in the 90s.
posted by muckster at 8:11 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by muckster at 8:11 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Awesome! Of course, what about the other bands of the era? Don't they get something special, too? Now The Doors, for instance, would be a good start or perhaps The Jefferson Airplane. Oh, wait, the Beatles. How about a museum for The Beatles.... The future may prove more crazy than the past.
posted by wildwade at 8:12 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by wildwade at 8:12 AM on March 11, 2010
Faze, if you're still reading, which late-60s San Francisco bands do you think are most worthy of being remembered for their music? (I've been wanting to listen to more rocky stuff lately.)
posted by box at 8:30 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by box at 8:30 AM on March 11, 2010
And those guys just absolutely could not sing that well live, on stage. I mean, really, their vocals were pretty much a disaster, live.
As one member of the Dead once said of their harmonizing (paraphrasing), "We sound like Crosby, Stills & Nash would sound if they never rehearsed."
posted by Knappster at 8:56 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
As one member of the Dead once said of their harmonizing (paraphrasing), "We sound like Crosby, Stills & Nash would sound if they never rehearsed."
posted by Knappster at 8:56 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
their example in demonstrating in the strongest and most convincing fashion, the fact that drugs do not make you more creative or interesting.
People don't do psychedelics to make themselves more interesting, they do them to make everything else more interesting. You're thinking of cocaine.
posted by Kirk Grim at 9:04 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
People don't do psychedelics to make themselves more interesting, they do them to make everything else more interesting. You're thinking of cocaine.
posted by Kirk Grim at 9:04 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Faze, if you're still reading
Ah... I'm sure he's still reading, but isn't his pattern to drop a big troll poop into most threads and then sit back and watch people respond? I quit taking anything he says seriously after reading the site for a few years because he ALWAYS does this. I don't even think he believes what he writes most of the time, because no single person can be THAT contrarian about EVERYTHING.
posted by hippybear at 9:25 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ah... I'm sure he's still reading, but isn't his pattern to drop a big troll poop into most threads and then sit back and watch people respond? I quit taking anything he says seriously after reading the site for a few years because he ALWAYS does this. I don't even think he believes what he writes most of the time, because no single person can be THAT contrarian about EVERYTHING.
posted by hippybear at 9:25 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
which late-60s San Francisco bands do you think are most worthy of being remembered for their music?
CCR!
It always struck me how 'under the radar' they were
Maybe it was because I was an active musician in the late 80's until their end but I was struck by how I couldn't escape them. My friends, peers, other musicians...
I got burnout without ever becoming a fan.
posted by sourwookie at 9:27 AM on March 11, 2010
CCR!
It always struck me how 'under the radar' they were
Maybe it was because I was an active musician in the late 80's until their end but I was struck by how I couldn't escape them. My friends, peers, other musicians...
I got burnout without ever becoming a fan.
posted by sourwookie at 9:27 AM on March 11, 2010
Well, I am one of those deadheads who still likes the hundreds of recordings I own, who listens religiously to Sirius 32, who still goes to shows. Went to Utica a few weekends ago to see Furthur and quite frankly the band sounds better than they did in the 90's before Jerry died. They are also no longer stingy with the song list. While they used to sprinkle out the classics a few a show at a time, they are willing to play entire sets now of the classics. They rocked the hall to close the first set with a rendition of Satisfaction that was as good if not better than any I saw at a Stones show. The second set opener of Chinacat-->The Wheel-->I know You Rider rocked too and the insertion of the Wheel into the traditional Chinacat Rider combo was a terrific surprise.
I saw my first show in 1978 and I was hooked. Quite frankly, I never really liked the scene at the shows and still don't. While I have had my share of shows where whatever it was I ingested had me tasting Jerry's notes (Cherry, lemon and apple) and Phil's cords (mostly chocolate with a coffee thrown in) the whole scene was for me contrived to some extent and not the folks I would have hung out with outside a show. Having said that, I never had a hassle at a show and everyone there was extremely nice and accommodating. I am sure that my crew cut made me out to be a narc to many and that just served as great cover for what was really going on at the shows for me and my friends. The feeling of looking around the Hampton Coliseum in 1980 and realizing you were probably the only one of the 17,000 there who voted for Ronald Reagan can be a little disconcerting.
My show count is over 100 and I saw some real clunkers. But the music is really good in my opinion. If you listen to enough tapes, you will hear them refine songs over time, jam and be creative within the structure of the songs and really interact with the crowd. Sure, as my brother says, it sounds like they are tuning up for half the show, but drums-->Space has its use if only to give everyone a chance to catch their space.
Part of the allure to the music is that it is not always the same. The Dead would change their set lists nightly, would even change the tempo of their own songs (see Friend of the Devil) and would cover songs that were far afield from their own roots. In fact, I could argue that the Dead is/was the world's greatest cover band. They were not afraid of taking someone else's song and making their own imprint on it. Sometimes it didn't work, but most of the time it did.
As for their business model, regardless of how or why they got there, they were way ahead of their time. Free is the new music model. The bands are all trying to do exactly what the Dead did. Give away music and try to sell live shows and merch. To think it wasn't successful or just a bunch of drugged out hippies is way wrong. They set up pension funds for the roadies, took care of so many people that Jerry complained that they could not afford to stop touring or 100s of folks directly associated with the band would be out of a job. Forget the grilled cheese vendors and all the other vendors on Shakedown Street.
Yup, there were shows when Jerry or Phil or Bob were more fucked up than I was and the show was not so hot. But go to 100s of shows and the body of work is as a whole fantastic.
YMMV of course.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:29 AM on March 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
I saw my first show in 1978 and I was hooked. Quite frankly, I never really liked the scene at the shows and still don't. While I have had my share of shows where whatever it was I ingested had me tasting Jerry's notes (Cherry, lemon and apple) and Phil's cords (mostly chocolate with a coffee thrown in) the whole scene was for me contrived to some extent and not the folks I would have hung out with outside a show. Having said that, I never had a hassle at a show and everyone there was extremely nice and accommodating. I am sure that my crew cut made me out to be a narc to many and that just served as great cover for what was really going on at the shows for me and my friends. The feeling of looking around the Hampton Coliseum in 1980 and realizing you were probably the only one of the 17,000 there who voted for Ronald Reagan can be a little disconcerting.
My show count is over 100 and I saw some real clunkers. But the music is really good in my opinion. If you listen to enough tapes, you will hear them refine songs over time, jam and be creative within the structure of the songs and really interact with the crowd. Sure, as my brother says, it sounds like they are tuning up for half the show, but drums-->Space has its use if only to give everyone a chance to catch their space.
Part of the allure to the music is that it is not always the same. The Dead would change their set lists nightly, would even change the tempo of their own songs (see Friend of the Devil) and would cover songs that were far afield from their own roots. In fact, I could argue that the Dead is/was the world's greatest cover band. They were not afraid of taking someone else's song and making their own imprint on it. Sometimes it didn't work, but most of the time it did.
As for their business model, regardless of how or why they got there, they were way ahead of their time. Free is the new music model. The bands are all trying to do exactly what the Dead did. Give away music and try to sell live shows and merch. To think it wasn't successful or just a bunch of drugged out hippies is way wrong. They set up pension funds for the roadies, took care of so many people that Jerry complained that they could not afford to stop touring or 100s of folks directly associated with the band would be out of a job. Forget the grilled cheese vendors and all the other vendors on Shakedown Street.
Yup, there were shows when Jerry or Phil or Bob were more fucked up than I was and the show was not so hot. But go to 100s of shows and the body of work is as a whole fantastic.
YMMV of course.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:29 AM on March 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
People don't do psychedelics to make themselves more interesting, they do them to make everything else more interesting. You're thinking of cocaine.
Cocaine just makes you an asshole.
posted by vibrotronica at 9:38 AM on March 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Cocaine just makes you an asshole.
posted by vibrotronica at 9:38 AM on March 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
drugs do not make you more creative
...they make you forgetful, though!
I meant to add that while I can entertain the idea that it's possible they don't give you any new creative insight you couldn't get straight, in my experience drugs can certainly help you focus on certain details with more patience when working in music and painting.
posted by Kirk Grim at 9:43 AM on March 11, 2010
...they make you forgetful, though!
I meant to add that while I can entertain the idea that it's possible they don't give you any new creative insight you couldn't get straight, in my experience drugs can certainly help you focus on certain details with more patience when working in music and painting.
posted by Kirk Grim at 9:43 AM on March 11, 2010
I took a couple classes from Fredric Lieberman. One was a music business class, of which it was said "taking music business from Lieberman is like taking songwriting from John Lennon". Though I wouldn't know since I can't really get it up for lawsuits and copyright. One day I gave him a copy of the soundtrack to Akira. He was like "my god, do you know what this is?" and I was like "yeah, fucking awesome"
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 9:55 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 9:55 AM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I have got a story about Micky Hart's kid getting trapped in a tree but you have to buy me a drink first.
posted by The Whelk at 10:50 AM on March 11, 2010
posted by The Whelk at 10:50 AM on March 11, 2010
I have got a story about Micky Hart's kid getting trapped in a tree but you have to buy me a drink first.
I will buy you that drink and tell you the stories of my literally bumping into Phil at the Woodlands Market.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:34 AM on March 11, 2010
I will buy you that drink and tell you the stories of my literally bumping into Phil at the Woodlands Market.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:34 AM on March 11, 2010
In the mid-80s, we saw Jerry hustling across the parking lot from the Nausea Coliseum to the hotel. His head was down and he was carrying the briefcase. "Great show, thanks!" He flipped us off, guess he disagreed.
posted by fixedgear at 11:43 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fixedgear at 11:43 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't give a toss about the dead but I love MeFi for providing a venue for opinions on Zouave uniforms. Go on, say it out loud, especially if you're within earshot of colleagues: "zouave".
posted by everichon at 12:41 PM on March 11, 2010
posted by everichon at 12:41 PM on March 11, 2010
which late-60s San Francisco bands do you think are most worthy of being remembered for their music?
CCR indeed! Also, Mystery Trend, Sopwith Camel, Beau Brummels, Moby Grape -- even the Vejtables and Fruminous Banderstach had better originals than the Dead. But there was no greater band of the time and era than Jefferson Airplane. Sorry. But their influence continues to be pervasive -- geeze I just heard some girl singing with the Decemberists whose voice (God bless her) was a dead-ringer for Grace Slick. It's the Airplane that should be honored in museum exhibits and in our memory (also, Paul Kantner uttered my favorite quote about the era: "For exactly three weeks in the summer of 1967 everything was perfect. Then... ")
posted by Faze at 1:02 PM on March 11, 2010
CCR indeed! Also, Mystery Trend, Sopwith Camel, Beau Brummels, Moby Grape -- even the Vejtables and Fruminous Banderstach had better originals than the Dead. But there was no greater band of the time and era than Jefferson Airplane. Sorry. But their influence continues to be pervasive -- geeze I just heard some girl singing with the Decemberists whose voice (God bless her) was a dead-ringer for Grace Slick. It's the Airplane that should be honored in museum exhibits and in our memory (also, Paul Kantner uttered my favorite quote about the era: "For exactly three weeks in the summer of 1967 everything was perfect. Then... ")
posted by Faze at 1:02 PM on March 11, 2010
I miss them, and I miss going to shows. Hell, they were already beyond passe by the time I saw my first show (NYE 1981, which set the bar pretty high...). I never listened to them to be cool, I listened to them because listening to their music made me happy, and listening to their music live made me even happier.
Good times. What I wouldn't give to take that ride again...
posted by mosk at 1:04 PM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Good times. What I wouldn't give to take that ride again...
posted by mosk at 1:04 PM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, mosk, the music never stopped. If you tilt your head just right, Furthur sounds awfully close. I'm not crazy about John Kadlecik -- I prefer a little bit less mimicry in my Jerry replacements (there's a kind of uncanny valley effect when they get too close) -- but the show I saw at Radio City the other week felt like a Dead show. Listen here.
posted by muckster at 1:54 PM on March 11, 2010
posted by muckster at 1:54 PM on March 11, 2010
But there was no greater band of the time and era than Jefferson Airplane.
If I never have to hear Marty Balin's hideously insufferable lyrics about his heart wrenching lovelorn agony and his godawful histrionic caterwauling again in my life, it'll be too soon. I'd rather listen to nothing but Garcia's barely-there feeble, nasal, out-of-tune whine 24 hours a day for the rest of my life.
...had better originals than the Dead.
Well, looking at your "no greater band of the time and era"... aside from White Rabbit, Somebody To Love and maybe Crown of Creation, what other Jefferson Airplane originals hold up or even come close, as songwriting, to the Dead's (in alphabetical order) Black Peter, Candyman, China Cat Sunflower, Cumberland Blues, Dire Wolf, Easy Wind (I still miss Pigpen), Friend of the Devil, He's Gone, Jack Straw, Ripple, Sugar Magnolia, Tennessee Jed, Truckin' and Wharf Rat?
I mean, really, Faze, either you're sitting on some private collection of unreleased songs by the Airplane and all the other SF bands you mentioned*, or you really are some insane troll hellbent on making bizarre and unsupportable pronouncements just to get folks riled up. Or, your idea of good songwriting is, well... no accounting for taste, I guess.
*except your CCR example, who, in John Fogerty, had one of the finest songwriters SF or any other American city ever produced
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:10 PM on March 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
If I never have to hear Marty Balin's hideously insufferable lyrics about his heart wrenching lovelorn agony and his godawful histrionic caterwauling again in my life, it'll be too soon. I'd rather listen to nothing but Garcia's barely-there feeble, nasal, out-of-tune whine 24 hours a day for the rest of my life.
...had better originals than the Dead.
Well, looking at your "no greater band of the time and era"... aside from White Rabbit, Somebody To Love and maybe Crown of Creation, what other Jefferson Airplane originals hold up or even come close, as songwriting, to the Dead's (in alphabetical order) Black Peter, Candyman, China Cat Sunflower, Cumberland Blues, Dire Wolf, Easy Wind (I still miss Pigpen), Friend of the Devil, He's Gone, Jack Straw, Ripple, Sugar Magnolia, Tennessee Jed, Truckin' and Wharf Rat?
I mean, really, Faze, either you're sitting on some private collection of unreleased songs by the Airplane and all the other SF bands you mentioned*, or you really are some insane troll hellbent on making bizarre and unsupportable pronouncements just to get folks riled up. Or, your idea of good songwriting is, well... no accounting for taste, I guess.
*except your CCR example, who, in John Fogerty, had one of the finest songwriters SF or any other American city ever produced
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:10 PM on March 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Insane troll? No way. The Vejtables! Frumious Bandersnatch!
posted by box at 4:12 PM on March 11, 2010
posted by box at 4:12 PM on March 11, 2010
Well, looking at your "no greater band of the time and era"... aside from White Rabbit, Somebody To Love and maybe Crown of Creation, what other Jefferson Airplane originals hold up or even come close, as songwriting, to the Dead's
Way to single out all the Worst of Jefferson Airplane to make your point, flapjax!
hamburger
posted by Kirk Grim at 4:20 PM on March 11, 2010
Way to single out all the Worst of Jefferson Airplane to make your point, flapjax!
hamburger
posted by Kirk Grim at 4:20 PM on March 11, 2010
Yes, and thanks, flapjax at midnite. CCR songs are three minute gems, each one finely polished. Fortunate Son? Travellin' Band? It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Garcia/Hunter might not be Lennon/McCartney or even Jagger/Richards but Airplane always seemed much less than the sum of it's parts. Jorma great, Jack Bruce great, Marty Balin punched in the face at Altamont (sorry, lost my place), Grace Slick pitch perfect souless singer, but put 'em together? Yawn.
posted by fixedgear at 4:24 PM on March 11, 2010
Garcia/Hunter might not be Lennon/McCartney or even Jagger/Richards but Airplane always seemed much less than the sum of it's parts. Jorma great, Jack Bruce great, Marty Balin punched in the face at Altamont (sorry, lost my place), Grace Slick pitch perfect souless singer, but put 'em together? Yawn.
posted by fixedgear at 4:24 PM on March 11, 2010
I think Minor Threat/Fugazi/Dischord Records would make a more interesting case study for management classes. But then, I WOULD think that, wouldn't I?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:16 PM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:16 PM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you wanted to get all eponysterical and all, yeah.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 PM on March 11, 2010
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 PM on March 11, 2010
you're right, though
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 PM on March 11, 2010
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 PM on March 11, 2010
oneforthreetwoforfive
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:44 PM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:44 PM on March 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hey, there's a bootleg I don't have yet. Trollin' On The Dead.
I never saw the Dead but many of my friends are heads.
posted by irisclara at 11:17 PM on March 11, 2010
I never saw the Dead but many of my friends are heads.
posted by irisclara at 11:17 PM on March 11, 2010
Our progeny will patronize us as the simple-minded people of a simpler-minded time, as we do our forefathers for their enthusiasm for Shirley Temple, skeeball,
What'd you say about skeeball, dude?
posted by telstar at 3:01 AM on March 12, 2010
What'd you say about skeeball, dude?
posted by telstar at 3:01 AM on March 12, 2010
I was afraid to peek at the comments in this thread because MeFi is traditionally Dead haters. For the most part this was more of the same. A few kind people sharing their experiences and love of what was a beautiful scene for 3+ decades, and the haters who still play the unwinable my-favourite-band-is-better-than-your-favourite-band game. Not much on the actual linked threads.
To those who didn't pop their heads in just to stir the nest, thanks. To you others, the jealousy isn't very appealing.
I didn't see digaman in this thread, and wanted to say hi.
Personally, I saw 75+ shows between June 1985 and the spring of 1995. Because of the Grateful Dead I learned that I liked bluegrass, jazz, folk, Americana, and acid rock. I also learned not to shit on other peoples' loves.
posted by terrapin at 6:49 AM on March 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
To those who didn't pop their heads in just to stir the nest, thanks. To you others, the jealousy isn't very appealing.
I didn't see digaman in this thread, and wanted to say hi.
Personally, I saw 75+ shows between June 1985 and the spring of 1995. Because of the Grateful Dead I learned that I liked bluegrass, jazz, folk, Americana, and acid rock. I also learned not to shit on other peoples' loves.
posted by terrapin at 6:49 AM on March 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
Tell you, though, they lost half the band when Pigpen died.
I don't know. While I agree that in 1970 he was a major contributor to making them great in 70, they introduced an enormous amount of material between 70 and 72, with very little new from Pigpen. While I love Turn on your Lovelight as much as anyone, I'm not sure Pigpen would have aged well.
posted by rakish_yet_centered at 11:06 AM on March 12, 2010
I don't know. While I agree that in 1970 he was a major contributor to making them great in 70, they introduced an enormous amount of material between 70 and 72, with very little new from Pigpen. While I love Turn on your Lovelight as much as anyone, I'm not sure Pigpen would have aged well.
posted by rakish_yet_centered at 11:06 AM on March 12, 2010
Well said, terrapin. 240+ shows here, encompassing a full range of experiences from sublime to scary and wonderful to awful, just like life itself. I obviously drank the Kool-Aid (heh), though even I'll admit that the 1993-5 shows were tough sledding due to Jerry's declining health and the huge influx people who came for the scene and not the music. And then in a blink it was over. And so it goes, I guess.
I feel very lucky to have been at the right place at the right time, and to have made some wonderful friends along the way.
posted by mosk at 11:10 AM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I feel very lucky to have been at the right place at the right time, and to have made some wonderful friends along the way.
posted by mosk at 11:10 AM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
In '93 I saw a show at Shoreline that occurred right after 4 'heads had driven off a cliff in their van on the way to the venue. Incredibly emotional and memorable show.
posted by telstar at 8:32 PM on March 12, 2010
posted by telstar at 8:32 PM on March 12, 2010
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Well, the Dead's drummers would've done well to take some alcohol-fueled rhythm advice from Zep's John Bonham, and Page and Plant would've done well to take some LSD-laced tips on fluidity and flexibility from Garcia and Weir.
And now I'm off to search for any online traces of the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs. that's gotta be some good reading.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:01 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]